Originally posted by whilan Nope, they stated there is about 200 hours worth of gamplay time just in the class story alone. That isn't including the other 60 percent of the game or if you reroll, and as each class has a different story, that 200 hours is for each of the 8 classes. So if you just played the class story and nothing else for each of the 8 classes, thats about 1600 hours right there. I'm actively looking for the link, just haven't found it yet. Will add it soon as i do.
Sorry, my eyes were bleeding reading what you wrote.
First 3 movies a train wreck huh?
Critically probably.
Each movie had about a 115,000,000 budget, and they made in order: 431 million, 310 million, and 380 million. Most train wrecks dont make that much money, so obviously whether it was a critical success or not, people went to see them, and liked them.
Visit IMBD.com if you'd like to look at the numbers for yourself. As a side note for comparison, the Lord of the Rings movies which were a critical success generated less box office revenue.
{Mod Edit}
Oh, and no, I dont think it'll be the greatest thing ever, and there are plenty of reasons to have questions, but the three you named really dont make the list. As for the OP, if you believe it, more power to you, I hope you are right.
lol, critical failure is failure. big budget is no excuse for poor acting and blatant plot holes. as for gross, i'll agree with you that they really hit it out of the park with numbers. in fact, i was one of those numbers that you quote--i won't deny it. just because i bought a ticket, doesn't mean i was extremely disappointed with my purchase. the massive tickets sales were resultant of the resurgence of a vastly popular, wildly successful series that many people had fond memories of. did i, and many others, walk away extremely dissatisfied? hell yes. special effects, top notch. story, meh. but if you for one second try and convince me that the acting in those movies was even "acceptable" i'll believe YOU are the one who is the troll.
as for everything else i mentioned, how is conveying facts explaining how BioWare Austin =/= BioWare Montreal/BioWare Edmonton trolling? people tend to fixate on the fact that BioWare is making this game, therefore it will be a massive success. perhaps a few employees who worked on successful BioWare titles in the past have made the transition, but realistically (or just geographically) look at the distance between Austin, TX and Edmonton, AL or Montreal, QB. it's massive. do you think people living there volunteered to relocate in droves??? I'll admit that it's primarily speculation, and there is a slight chance I am wrong. however, does it seem realistic? hell no... but if you can prove me wrong, and i challenge you to do so, you've just won a new car. as for the other people i listed, those are cold hard facts. the game is headed by people that have driven other potentially amazing MMO's into the ground, and have had nothing but a loose affiliation with BioWare, yet somehow out of nowhere become managers of a project whose expense eclipses the most expensive BioWare games to date? shady.
as for my other topic-- the OP was excited about flying space ships. so i linked what flying space ships is in SWTOR. i fail to see, in any capacity, how i was trolling.
EDIT: (forgot to drive a point)
Originally posted by Baikal
...they made in order: 431 million, 310 million, and 380 million. Most train wrecks dont make that much money, so obviously whether it was a critical success or not, people went to see them, and liked them.
so using this logic, you believe Justin Beiber is an excellent musician because his records have made a lot of money and a lot of people like him. baby oh!
Originally posted by laikacosmo Originally posted by Baikal
Originally posted by laikacosmo obvious troll attempt
Futile attempt to make me seem like a troll
lol, critical failure is failure. big budget is no excuse for poor acting and blatant plot holes. as for gross, i'll agree with you that they really hit it out of the park with numbers. in fact, i was one of those numbers that you quote--i won't deny it. just because i bought a ticket, doesn't mean i was extremely disappointed with my purchase. the massive tickets sales were resultant of the resurgence of a vastly popular, wildly successful series that many people had fond memories of. did i, and many others, walk away extremely dissatisfied? hell yes. special effects, top notch. story, meh. but if you for one second try and convince me that the acting in those movies was even "acceptable" i'll believe YOU are the one who is the troll.
as for everything else i mentioned, how is conveying facts explaining how BioWare Austin =/= BioWare Montreal/BioWare Edmonton trolling? people tend to fixate on the fact that BioWare is making this game, therefore it will be a massive success. perhaps a few employees who worked on successful BioWare titles in the past have made the transition, but realistically (or just geographically) look at the distance between Austin, TX and Edmonton, AL or Montreal, QB. it's massive. do you think people living there volunteered to relocate in droves??? I'll admit that it's primarily speculation, and there is a slight chance I am wrong. however, does it seem realistic? hell no... but if you can prove me wrong, and i challenge you to do so, you've just won a new car. as for the other people i listed, those are cold hard facts. the game is headed by people that have driven other potentially amazing MMO's into the ground, and have had nothing but a loose affiliation with BioWare, yet somehow out of nowhere become managers of a project whose expense eclipses the most expensive BioWare games to date? shady.
as for my other topic-- the OP was excited about flying space ships. so i linked what flying space ships is in SWTOR. i fail to see, in any capacity, how i was trolling.
EDIT: (forgot to drive a point)
Originally posted by Baikal ...they made in order: 431 million, 310 million, and 380 million. Most train wrecks dont make that much money, so obviously whether it was a critical success or not, people went to see them, and liked them.
so using this logic, you believe Justin Beiber is an excellent musician because his records have made a lot of money and a lot of people like him. baby oh!
qft, he's not saying it's going to fail or be a success, he's just pointing things out. interpretation is subject but still. but you have to admit his or her posts really puts things in perspective. And since everyone hates EA, it wouldn't come as a surprise if this was one of their 'dirty tricks'. Thats what the hype machine is all about.
Even if the combat might be lacking, I think it's going to pretty awesome nevertheless.
The OP claimed that anything Star Wars works. Your contention that the first three movies dont work is inaccurate. They did work the tune of a very large sum of money, which is a pretty big reason that they were made. As for the quality, nobody said anything about that. This isnt Shakespere, it's Star Wars, George Lucas told a story with the intention of making money. It's like McDonalds, nobody says their food is good, but it doesnt stop people from buying it. You cant have it both ways, and especially in the case when the OP says the name is gold. Fact is, it is gold, even if the item so branded is steaming pile of poo.
I'm well aware of how maps work, thank's for the explanation. I know this one is going to floor you, but on occasion, people get offered sum's of money, and they end up relocating. I know I've done it a couple of times myself, and I'm not the only one. Nobody is claiming that this is the Bioware team that made any of their previous games, however it's equally ignorant to claim that the oversight by the two Dr's who founded the company isnt there either. This is a company that has a fairly strong history of quality games in the industry. Does it mean this is 100% going to be? No, but it would be almost a bigger surprise if it isnt, because of their prior history. I mean, if you really want to talk fact and all, but I notice that you'd prefer to twist a fact to suit you, and leave out the items that dont quite fit your profile.
As far as the logic, it doesnt say that Bieber is an excellent musican, I'm not commenting on ability, or quality, I am fairly clearly demonstrating that there are more ways than one to judge what is, and what isnt successful, or a sucess or failure. I'll go a little slower next time so that doesnt go over your head next time, I apologize.
BioWare Austin, headed by Gordon Walton and Rich Vogel (primarily Star Wars Galaxies & Ultima Online developers) and Rob Denton (primarily Warhammer Online developer/usurper) who "reports directly to" Ray Muzyka (who lives in another country, but they gotta make it seem like someone important from BioWare is actually involved in the game). Throw in a number of laid off Mythic employees and you get an EA Manufactured branch of BioWare (which is mainly based in Canada, btw--Austin, TX couldn't be further). Just because someone has been subtly involved with maybe one single-player game you have kind memories of, does not mean they should be trusted with an MMORPG, a genre in which they have all had their hands dipped in utter failure.
Originally posted by Toxilium
3. I heard from people in beta (from the ToR forums) that its like WoW having a baby in KOTOR. WoW is my favorite MMO of all time as its esay to learn but hard to master and very pretty to look at. KOTOR 2 especially is my favorite single player game of all time. Imagine taking WoWs unique questing system like riding in vehicles and turrets, combining that in SPACESHIPS and with Speeders and lightsabers, ahhhhhh what more could you want?
you didnt do enough research on no.2 Lead Designer James Ohlen is on board he was leader deisgner for KOTOR, DRAGON AGe, BALDUARS GATE SERIEs. PRETTY MUCH NUFF SAID .
ok, so I'm still trolling even though I've thoroughly explained my position with clear, sound facts? failure is failure no matter how you look at it. star wars is not shakespeare, although he was drivel too. but when you spend your whole budget for the movie on special effects and leave the dialog and story as an afterthought, i'd say you no longer have an emotional interest in the story as much as you do a financial one. lucas just wanted to bank in on this wet-dream he's been "holding onto" for "years" although it honestly seemed like it was conceptualized overnight.
i understand what relocation is, maybe you should re-read my post where i said "perhaps some people have" but do you honestly think it's realistic that a huge workforce like a design team for a top-tier video game would just pack up and move south for the production of a single game? how many people would think this is worth the hassle to sell their houses, relocate their families, and not to mention go through a whole immigration process just to become a citizen of the United States (Canada is, after all, another country) that would also cause BioWare to bleed a lot of their current workforce (who I'm sure aren't resting on their laurels). is it ignorance to ignore the oversight of the general management of the company? maybe. just as ignorant as to blindly trust their judgement in the wake of a corporate buyout, especially EA. mythic entertainment was a great company. i played games of theirs since their text-based MUD "Darkness Falls" on AOL and Gamestorm, and was always entertained. DAoC was probably the best PvP game of all time, and thousands of people can back that statement up. in comes EA, production is rushed on WAR, internal fights erupt, the ball is dropped, and out pops one of the most commercial failures of a game with a extremely popular IP with a built-in fan base. not an easy thing to accomplish, but they did it with ease.
as for the gentleman who attempted to "school" me on my staffing point (hitting caps-lock to emphasize the fury):
grats, you gave me one person. i already said that maybe a few trickled over, but to the extent that everyone is saying "OMG, BIOWARE IS MAKING IT" warrants a lot more than that. i gave you three epic failures, you gave me one winner (although if he really is in charge of the art, he's not doing the best job). /golfclap
I hope it does well and always look forward to a quality title, especially Bioware's, but really...let's not give away the crown till a few months in...
What worries me is they are so set on delivering a story,it might just end up a linear path and another questing treadmill.This means another single player game with limited hours of play.I did watch the video but it was so muffled,i couldn't hear any mention of hours of game time.
Also if it is correct 160 i think somebody mentioned from the storyline,that can be very misleading.160 might be from ALL choices,example if each quest has 3 choices ,you can only pick one,so divide that into 3 right there,for only 60 hours of game play.Then "IF" my assumption is correct[it is a very good chance i am correct] that the game is mainly a story driven ,linear game,that would be all the game play,the 60 and that is it.
I NEVER consider end game or Raiding as content,that is usually a time sink to keep people hanging around for longer subs.
One more for the road,i want people to be aware of what this game MIGHT end up accomplishing ..or not.MOST important for me that is...
The design of different storyline,imo removes the possibility for a group setting.Each person will be off on his own doing his own story line.The ONLY way this does not play out solo,is if it is as i said before,there is no real multiple story line,more so there will be 2/3/4 or so choices from each quest.I am guessing 3,an evil choice,a good choice and a choice that your npc favors,maybe a fourth neutral choice.
The multi choice from each quest allows the group to play together and be lead from hub to hub,in a linear fashion.If this is not how it works,then zero grouping,if it is how it works,then linear game play,see what i mean about a story driven game,through quests can be a bad thing?
I think 90% of the players want to be able to have a totally non linear game,if they don't want the quests,they don't have to do them.However if they tie all your gear to quests,you are FORCED down that road,if the only VIABLE xp is from quests,you are again FORCED into linear game play.I hope Bioware is smart enough to resepct all play styles,some may want that hand held questing treadmill,but i am also sure MANY don't.Exploration xp,i am sure will work as it did in Eq/EQ2.you will not be leveling that way or advancing your player,misleading to use the example of gaining level 1-2 that way,ya sure when level 1-2 is probably like 500 xp,and later levels probably in the millions.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Granted if the class story was the entire game then it would be indeed short. However that isn't the entire game. That is just one part of it.
You have crafting: which is called crew skills but it's generally the same thing, you pick 3 skills out of gathering crafting and mission.
You have world quests: these are one shot quests. Go take this to X and kill Y return to me and get xp/loot
You have group quests : same basic thing except now you must be in a group to complete this as the desired level
You have flash points: which are group based dungeons that can change based on the decisions you make in that dungeon
You have raids: we know how those normally work
You have instance PvP: you go into an area, complete objectives based on the instance and all the while fighting against your fellow players who are trying to do the same against you. You do get xp for this so you can level up just by doing pvp
You have open PvP in areas: which i would assume would be similar to how fallen earth does it. You walk into an area and you get a timer until your attackable. I don't know if you get xp for killing others in pvp. I'm kinda split on this. If you can't that kinda sucks but if you can thats easily exploitable to.
You also have PvP servers for those that want the thrill of possibly being shot when they go over the hill.
You also have world arcs which are the quests designed for telling the story of the star wars universe.
The class quest is just your story in the world. What makes you tick and things like that. The 160-200 hour quote I would assume is the entire thing. meaning every single choice/cutscene. But thats just for one character (there are 8) and as you can see above just that one part of the game.
Just saying, it's not all the class story quest, there is a bunch more.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Granted if the class story was the entire game then it would be indeed short. However that isn't the entire game. That is just one part of it.
You have crafting: which is called crew skills but it's generally the same thing, you pick 3 skills out of gathering crafting and mission.
You have world quests: these are one shot quests. Go take this to X and kill Y return to me and get xp/loot
You have group quests : same basic thing except now you must be in a group to complete this as the desired level
You have flash points: which are group based dungeons that can change based on the decisions you make in that dungeon
You have raids: we know how those normally work
You have instance PvP: you go into an area, complete objectives based on the instance and all the while fighting against your fellow players who are trying to do the same against you. You do get xp for this so you can level up just by doing pvp
You have open PvP in areas: which i would assume would be similar to how fallen earth does it. You walk into an area and you get a timer until your attackable. I don't know if you get xp for killing others in pvp. I'm kinda split on this. If you can't that kinda sucks but if you can thats easily exploitable to.
You also have PvP servers for those that want the thrill of possibly being shot when they go over the hill.
You also have world arcs which are the quests designed for telling the story of the star wars universe.
The class quest is just your story in the world. What makes you tick and things like that. The 160-200 hour quote I would assume is the entire thing. meaning every single choice/cutscene. But thats just for one character (there are 8) and as you can see above just that one part of the game.
Just saying, it's not all the class story quest, there is a bunch more.
Whilan;
I don't say so very well put. Very concise summary. Just the class quests makes this possibly one of the best value games ever....
I expect a lot of additional surprise on top of what you have listed. The main one being the collosal planet sizes and ability o explore.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Another page in and a warning from the mods. Keep up the great work everyone!
EDIT: My mistake, they deleted the post. Essentially I'm seeing how many posts it takes before people figure out both threads were bait. A little personal experiment to determine how ignorant this website truly is when it comes to reading comprehension and the ability to note intelligent from stupid (like my original post) thought processing. I explained everything I'm doing in this post, but for those watching at home, lets see how long our studio audience can keep posting for!
Most of those points was also true of SOE and SWG, prior to Smedley's Order 66.
Just saying.
Yep. I remember the days. People back just before the release saying SWG was going to be the biggest game since...and then reality struck. SWG was a great game for those of us that liked it...what all 350k to 400k of us. That was about it. Then the CU drove a lot away...then came Smedley's version of Order 66...the NGE and it drove tons more away and the game is a shell of what it once was.
Just because you slap the name Star Wars on a box does not make it awesome. Look at the last movies since Empire Strikes Back. All garbage.
The IP will garner hype, but it is not the primary argument of why most who have researched the game believe it will succeed. Although what measurement of success we are talking about varies. Will it be a financial success? Very possible that it wont.
Will it be a success as in more subscriptions than most modern MMO's? Probably. Will it retain them? With what I have seen so far I have a strong reason to believe that it will have a higher retention rate than most modern MMORPG's, at least up till max level.
I will not tell you that it will keep people well invested past getting to endgame, because not much is known beyond that point. However based on the direction the meat of the game seems to be taken, it seems likely that it will keep people drawn throughout the leveling process, which is again something many MMORPG's fail at doing.
The OP is excited about the game coming out? Good!
My favourite piece of advice to people who are looking forward to a game, is to not spend it on forums. You know the way forum guys have a bad word for everything. I'm gonna sound like a Zen meditation manual here but oh well:
"Keep your mind clean of others thoughts and opinions, and explore the game and discover it yourself" - Halobump
What worries me is they are so set on delivering a story,it might just end up a linear path and another questing treadmill.This means another single player game with limited hours of play.I did watch the video but it was so muffled,i couldn't hear any mention of hours of game time.
Also if it is correct 160 i think somebody mentioned from the storyline,that can be very misleading.160 might be from ALL choices,example if each quest has 3 choices ,you can only pick one,so divide that into 3 right there,for only 60 hours of game play.Then "IF" my assumption is correct[it is a very good chance i am correct] that the game is mainly a story driven ,linear game,that would be all the game play,the 60 and that is it.
I NEVER consider end game or Raiding as content,that is usually a time sink to keep people hanging around for longer subs.
One more for the road,i want people to be aware of what this game MIGHT end up accomplishing ..or not.MOST important for me that is...
The design of different storyline,imo removes the possibility for a group setting.Each person will be off on his own doing his own story line.The ONLY way this does not play out solo,is if it is as i said before,there is no real multiple story line,more so there will be 2/3/4 or so choices from each quest.I am guessing 3,an evil choice,a good choice and a choice that your npc favors,maybe a fourth neutral choice.
The multi choice from each quest allows the group to play together and be lead from hub to hub,in a linear fashion.If this is not how it works,then zero grouping,if it is how it works,then linear game play,see what i mean about a story driven game,through quests can be a bad thing?
I think 90% of the players want to be able to have a totally non linear game,if they don't want the quests,they don't have to do them.However if they tie all your gear to quests,you are FORCED down that road,if the only VIABLE xp is from quests,you are again FORCED into linear game play.I hope Bioware is smart enough to resepct all play styles,some may want that hand held questing treadmill,but i am also sure MANY don't.Exploration xp,i am sure will work as it did in Eq/EQ2.you will not be leveling that way or advancing your player,misleading to use the example of gaining level 1-2 that way,ya sure when level 1-2 is probably like 500 xp,and later levels probably in the millions.
I think this poster is articulating a lot of people's wishes and desires about the game.
Understandable, i will try and hit on each one as best i can. This doesn't mean i'm sure or anything, just stating what is in game
I too hope the game is not too linear.
Hope i hit this right. Linear as in you have to do one thing and one thing only, if i get this meaning wrong please let me know. Okay riding on linear. At first you are set on a planet. Now you do have a story and if you want to get off that planet that story will have to progress to a point where you can get a ship. This i gather will take you about 7 hours to get to if you smash through it, 10 if you go normal. After that they give you several options. You can continue to do your class story (and i suggest you do as you get companions in it which are helpful in a number of situations) or you can go PvP (as you gain xp for this, you could level to max this way). You can also do crafting, do some world quests (standard mmo quest fare) world arcs (long quests that tell the story of the game). As well as just go exploring. You can do these things in any order (provided you have reached the required level) you want.
I too hope the game is not too shallow.
Valid concern. I too hope so. We will have to see.
I too hope the game is not aimed at a young teen, 'Clone Wars' audience.
I'd say it's towards teen (i think the graphics make people get the clone wars as target audience idea). Theres an instance where a Sith is mad that his assistant tried to undermine him so he attacks her with force lighting, and you can hear her scream. I'd assume thats just one instance. Heres the link to the video
I too hope that the additional features not yet released -eg. auction house, raids, end game - will not be as shallow and limited as the features that have been discussed - eg. space combat.
space combat was and always has been a mini-game. everything else is normal. AH will work as you expect, raids haven't been talked about but they have said that it will be what is normally seen in an MMO, they also said it would be a twist to it, but my guessing is the choices in story is the twist.
One of the end-game features is a co-op flashpoint with both republic and sith taking down some rogue droids.
I am just going to throw this out there for conversation. No doubt Bioware wants to draw from WoW but if I am a WoW player why would I want to come to this game and keep doing the same things I have been doing in WoW for the past 5 years or so. Other than story arcs and voice over it sounds alot like WoW.
I am just going to throw this out there for conversation. No doubt Bioware wants to draw from WoW but if I am a WoW player why would I want to come to this game and keep doing the same things I have been doing in WoW for the past 5 years or so. Other than story arcs and voice over it sounds alot like WoW.
I think they want to draw from all places not just WoW.
They want to draw from the sci-fi people
They want to draw from the kotor crowd
and they want to draw from the MMO crowd
Now if the question is if i play wow why would i want to play this game?
Well that depends on what you feel your missing from WoW that would make you want to play this game over it.
FIrst off, it's sci-fi so it has a different feel. Instead of castles you have skyscrapers, instead of bows you have blasters (like guns)
As for story? Well that depends on how big on story are you. In the case of ToR, the presentation of the story is a big thing. You are always invovled. You get choices and see how your character and the NPC react to those choices. You have the ability to change the quest entirely
Example: Instead of just walking up to a quest NPC and clicking on him and clicking accept and completing said quest then getting a reward. In ToR you can complete the quest as designed or decide the npc isn't worth your time and shoot him and his guards and take your reward (the darkside course naturally)
As for worlds. Well each planet is suppose to be fully explorable and is about the size of 3 WoW zones generally, all buildings are the same size both inside and out. Meaning you'll never run into a shack and end up in a 30 room palace.
Crew skills are set on a timer which means no power level through skills.
Flashpoints can change depending on what decisions you make. Instead of running the same dungeon 30 times and be the exact same way all 30 times. Instead you may run that same dungeon 30 times but have it be different each time.
Just a few things.
If however your looking for a completely different experience (ala your tired of theme park/class system) then you may be out of luck here.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I too hope that the additional features not yet released -eg. auction house, raids, end game - will not be as shallow and limited as the features that have been discussed - eg. space combat.
space combat was and always has been a mini-game. . AH will work as you expect,
No-one knows that for sure. What we do know is that Bioware has never implememted and operated aam auction hhouse system, let alone anything like a player run economy in an mmorpg environment in the past.
I would gather and this is just my guess but considering they work generally the same in most of the MMOs, you have an area where you access the AH, put your item on the market, it sits there, if a person buys it, you get the money and the person gets the item. Kinda like a delayed trade except you don't know who the person is. AH don't seem that complicated to me. Balancing crafting is another matter but AH are pretty straight forward to me.
raids haven't been talked about but they have said that it will be what is normally seen in an MMO, they also said it would be a twist to it, but my guessing is the choices in story is the twist.
I would be more confident about Bioware's idea of 'what6 is normally seen in a MMO' if Bioware had any history of making, running, managing and balancing end-games for MMOs.
guess we will have to wait and see on that. They said what you typically see in end-game is what you will see here. raids, flashpoints (dungeons) PvP, high end crafting. all that. They are not alone though, they've taken on the mythic crew as well as some people from other games. So they can get advice. Naturally at this point of the game it's impossible to tell if they will do it well.
One of the end-game features is a co-op flashpoint with both republic and sith taking down some rogue droids.
Yes. I've seen that. I was disappointed that raid content is not available to both sides of the game.
We've seen only one form of end-game this is the first time they've talked about it. We know next to nothing about end-game. More will come. But keep in mind one thing, rarely will the empire/republic work with each other on things unless it's to take down a great foe like this. They are at war with each other.
Thanks for the link. I hope a lot of these developer statements and interviews will be confirmed by the featurtures we see in action when and if open beta happens.
Me to.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I am just going to throw this out there for conversation. No doubt Bioware wants to draw from WoW but if I am a WoW player why would I want to come to this game and keep doing the same things I have been doing in WoW for the past 5 years or so. Other than story arcs and voice over it sounds alot like WoW.
I'd say because it's a completely different world and setting as opposed to Rift for example. Most of the classes other than the melee seam unique too, ofc there is still your holy triad. The story and voice over is a huge plus too.
1. It's Star Wars. Do I really need the other points? Everything that is Star Wars is gold except jar jar binks because hes stupid.
2. It's BioWare. Really, are you still reading?
3. I heard from people in beta (from the ToR forums) that its like WoW having a baby in KOTOR. WoW is my favorite MMO of all time as its esay to learn but hard to master and very pretty to look at. KOTOR 2 especially is my favorite single player game of all time. Imagine taking WoWs unique questing system like riding in vehicles and turrets, combining that in SPACESHIPS and with Speeders and lightsabers, ahhhhhh what more could you want?
4. It's Star Wars.
I think this game will beat WoW, simple as that. A lot of my friends in my guild are just waiting for this to come out and theyre gone. as soon as tor comes out, its all star wars from then on, and same with me. I like killing noobs in BGs with my Ret Pally and rogue XD BUT this game will be way more awesome as i can kill them with the same class (sith warrior) with a LIGHTSABER. Also anyone who goes Republic is lame Vader is better than Yoda anyday and TOR is going to let me be as badass as Vader was!
ROFL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL:ROFL _____I_____ L / L O L== [] L _____________ I I ------------/ Im sorry, i like star wars, and i like swtor, but your post is just..well read above^^
The game will be great, but the best ever? no.. and it takes alot more than a good company and a good ip to make the best game ever.. the end
(god that was hard to make a decent roflcopter here...)
1. It's Star Wars. Do I really need the other points? Everything that is Star Wars is gold except jar jar binks because hes stupid.
2. It's BioWare. Really, are you still reading?
3. I heard from people in beta (from the ToR forums) that its like WoW having a baby in KOTOR. WoW is my favorite MMO of all time as its esay to learn but hard to master and very pretty to look at. KOTOR 2 especially is my favorite single player game of all time. Imagine taking WoWs unique questing system like riding in vehicles and turrets, combining that in SPACESHIPS and with Speeders and lightsabers, ahhhhhh what more could you want?
4. It's Star Wars.
I think this game will beat WoW, simple as that. A lot of my friends in my guild are just waiting for this to come out and theyre gone. as soon as tor comes out, its all star wars from then on, and same with me. I like killing noobs in BGs with my Ret Pally and rogue XD BUT this game will be way more awesome as i can kill them with the same class (sith warrior) with a LIGHTSABER. Also anyone who goes Republic is lame Vader is better than Yoda anyday and TOR is going to let me be as badass as Vader was!
ROFL:ROFL:LOL:ROFL:ROFL _____I_____ L / L O L== [] L _____________ I I ------------/ Im sorry, i like star wars, and i like swtor, but your post is just..well read above^^
The game will be great, but the best ever? no.. and it takes alot more than a good company and a good ip to make the best game ever.. the end
(god that was hard to make a decent roflcopter here...)
You need to read a few posts above too. This is a hilarious thread otherwise.
I am just going to throw this out there for conversation. No doubt Bioware wants to draw from WoW but if I am a WoW player why would I want to come to this game and keep doing the same things I have been doing in WoW for the past 5 years or so. Other than story arcs and voice over it sounds alot like WoW.
I'd say because it's a completely different world and setting as opposed to Rift for example. Most of the classes other than the melee seam unique too, ofc there is still your holy triad. The story and voice over is a huge plus too.
Not only that but the art is better, the animations that we have seen are better, the overall graphics seem better, and you actually have choices in this game that go beyond: yes-I will take this mission or no-I will not take this mission. Basically this game to me looks to be what WoW could have been had they ever attempted to actually try and improve the game instead of just expanding it.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Comments
It was from a video: Richard Vogel Interview
All good things can be found: Info Gathered to Date
Sorry, my eyes were bleeding reading what you wrote.
First 3 movies a train wreck huh?
Critically probably.
Each movie had about a 115,000,000 budget, and they made in order: 431 million, 310 million, and 380 million. Most train wrecks dont make that much money, so obviously whether it was a critical success or not, people went to see them, and liked them.
Visit IMBD.com if you'd like to look at the numbers for yourself. As a side note for comparison, the Lord of the Rings movies which were a critical success generated less box office revenue.
{Mod Edit}
Oh, and no, I dont think it'll be the greatest thing ever, and there are plenty of reasons to have questions, but the three you named really dont make the list. As for the OP, if you believe it, more power to you, I hope you are right.
lol, critical failure is failure. big budget is no excuse for poor acting and blatant plot holes. as for gross, i'll agree with you that they really hit it out of the park with numbers. in fact, i was one of those numbers that you quote--i won't deny it. just because i bought a ticket, doesn't mean i was extremely disappointed with my purchase. the massive tickets sales were resultant of the resurgence of a vastly popular, wildly successful series that many people had fond memories of. did i, and many others, walk away extremely dissatisfied? hell yes. special effects, top notch. story, meh. but if you for one second try and convince me that the acting in those movies was even "acceptable" i'll believe YOU are the one who is the troll.
as for everything else i mentioned, how is conveying facts explaining how BioWare Austin =/= BioWare Montreal/BioWare Edmonton trolling? people tend to fixate on the fact that BioWare is making this game, therefore it will be a massive success. perhaps a few employees who worked on successful BioWare titles in the past have made the transition, but realistically (or just geographically) look at the distance between Austin, TX and Edmonton, AL or Montreal, QB. it's massive. do you think people living there volunteered to relocate in droves??? I'll admit that it's primarily speculation, and there is a slight chance I am wrong. however, does it seem realistic? hell no... but if you can prove me wrong, and i challenge you to do so, you've just won a new car. as for the other people i listed, those are cold hard facts. the game is headed by people that have driven other potentially amazing MMO's into the ground, and have had nothing but a loose affiliation with BioWare, yet somehow out of nowhere become managers of a project whose expense eclipses the most expensive BioWare games to date? shady.
as for my other topic-- the OP was excited about flying space ships. so i linked what flying space ships is in SWTOR. i fail to see, in any capacity, how i was trolling.
EDIT: (forgot to drive a point)
so using this logic, you believe Justin Beiber is an excellent musician because his records have made a lot of money and a lot of people like him. baby oh!
Even if the combat might be lacking, I think it's going to pretty awesome nevertheless.
First part, good twist!
The OP claimed that anything Star Wars works. Your contention that the first three movies dont work is inaccurate. They did work the tune of a very large sum of money, which is a pretty big reason that they were made. As for the quality, nobody said anything about that. This isnt Shakespere, it's Star Wars, George Lucas told a story with the intention of making money. It's like McDonalds, nobody says their food is good, but it doesnt stop people from buying it. You cant have it both ways, and especially in the case when the OP says the name is gold. Fact is, it is gold, even if the item so branded is steaming pile of poo.
I'm well aware of how maps work, thank's for the explanation. I know this one is going to floor you, but on occasion, people get offered sum's of money, and they end up relocating. I know I've done it a couple of times myself, and I'm not the only one. Nobody is claiming that this is the Bioware team that made any of their previous games, however it's equally ignorant to claim that the oversight by the two Dr's who founded the company isnt there either. This is a company that has a fairly strong history of quality games in the industry. Does it mean this is 100% going to be? No, but it would be almost a bigger surprise if it isnt, because of their prior history. I mean, if you really want to talk fact and all, but I notice that you'd prefer to twist a fact to suit you, and leave out the items that dont quite fit your profile.
As far as the logic, it doesnt say that Bieber is an excellent musican, I'm not commenting on ability, or quality, I am fairly clearly demonstrating that there are more ways than one to judge what is, and what isnt successful, or a sucess or failure. I'll go a little slower next time so that doesnt go over your head next time, I apologize.
ok, so I'm still trolling even though I've thoroughly explained my position with clear, sound facts? failure is failure no matter how you look at it. star wars is not shakespeare, although he was drivel too. but when you spend your whole budget for the movie on special effects and leave the dialog and story as an afterthought, i'd say you no longer have an emotional interest in the story as much as you do a financial one. lucas just wanted to bank in on this wet-dream he's been "holding onto" for "years" although it honestly seemed like it was conceptualized overnight.
i understand what relocation is, maybe you should re-read my post where i said "perhaps some people have" but do you honestly think it's realistic that a huge workforce like a design team for a top-tier video game would just pack up and move south for the production of a single game? how many people would think this is worth the hassle to sell their houses, relocate their families, and not to mention go through a whole immigration process just to become a citizen of the United States (Canada is, after all, another country) that would also cause BioWare to bleed a lot of their current workforce (who I'm sure aren't resting on their laurels). is it ignorance to ignore the oversight of the general management of the company? maybe. just as ignorant as to blindly trust their judgement in the wake of a corporate buyout, especially EA. mythic entertainment was a great company. i played games of theirs since their text-based MUD "Darkness Falls" on AOL and Gamestorm, and was always entertained. DAoC was probably the best PvP game of all time, and thousands of people can back that statement up. in comes EA, production is rushed on WAR, internal fights erupt, the ball is dropped, and out pops one of the most commercial failures of a game with a extremely popular IP with a built-in fan base. not an easy thing to accomplish, but they did it with ease.
as for the gentleman who attempted to "school" me on my staffing point (hitting caps-lock to emphasize the fury):
grats, you gave me one person. i already said that maybe a few trickled over, but to the extent that everyone is saying "OMG, BIOWARE IS MAKING IT" warrants a lot more than that. i gave you three epic failures, you gave me one winner (although if he really is in charge of the art, he's not doing the best job). /golfclap
{Mod Edit}
I hope it does well and always look forward to a quality title, especially Bioware's, but really...let's not give away the crown till a few months in...
What worries me is they are so set on delivering a story,it might just end up a linear path and another questing treadmill.This means another single player game with limited hours of play.I did watch the video but it was so muffled,i couldn't hear any mention of hours of game time.
Also if it is correct 160 i think somebody mentioned from the storyline,that can be very misleading.160 might be from ALL choices,example if each quest has 3 choices ,you can only pick one,so divide that into 3 right there,for only 60 hours of game play.Then "IF" my assumption is correct[it is a very good chance i am correct] that the game is mainly a story driven ,linear game,that would be all the game play,the 60 and that is it.
I NEVER consider end game or Raiding as content,that is usually a time sink to keep people hanging around for longer subs.
One more for the road,i want people to be aware of what this game MIGHT end up accomplishing ..or not.MOST important for me that is...
The design of different storyline,imo removes the possibility for a group setting.Each person will be off on his own doing his own story line.The ONLY way this does not play out solo,is if it is as i said before,there is no real multiple story line,more so there will be 2/3/4 or so choices from each quest.I am guessing 3,an evil choice,a good choice and a choice that your npc favors,maybe a fourth neutral choice.
The multi choice from each quest allows the group to play together and be lead from hub to hub,in a linear fashion.If this is not how it works,then zero grouping,if it is how it works,then linear game play,see what i mean about a story driven game,through quests can be a bad thing?
I think 90% of the players want to be able to have a totally non linear game,if they don't want the quests,they don't have to do them.However if they tie all your gear to quests,you are FORCED down that road,if the only VIABLE xp is from quests,you are again FORCED into linear game play.I hope Bioware is smart enough to resepct all play styles,some may want that hand held questing treadmill,but i am also sure MANY don't.Exploration xp,i am sure will work as it did in Eq/EQ2.you will not be leveling that way or advancing your player,misleading to use the example of gaining level 1-2 that way,ya sure when level 1-2 is probably like 500 xp,and later levels probably in the millions.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Granted if the class story was the entire game then it would be indeed short. However that isn't the entire game. That is just one part of it.
You have crafting: which is called crew skills but it's generally the same thing, you pick 3 skills out of gathering crafting and mission.
You have world quests: these are one shot quests. Go take this to X and kill Y return to me and get xp/loot
You have group quests : same basic thing except now you must be in a group to complete this as the desired level
You have flash points: which are group based dungeons that can change based on the decisions you make in that dungeon
You have raids: we know how those normally work
You have instance PvP: you go into an area, complete objectives based on the instance and all the while fighting against your fellow players who are trying to do the same against you. You do get xp for this so you can level up just by doing pvp
You have open PvP in areas: which i would assume would be similar to how fallen earth does it. You walk into an area and you get a timer until your attackable. I don't know if you get xp for killing others in pvp. I'm kinda split on this. If you can't that kinda sucks but if you can thats easily exploitable to.
You also have PvP servers for those that want the thrill of possibly being shot when they go over the hill.
You also have world arcs which are the quests designed for telling the story of the star wars universe.
The class quest is just your story in the world. What makes you tick and things like that. The 160-200 hour quote I would assume is the entire thing. meaning every single choice/cutscene. But thats just for one character (there are 8) and as you can see above just that one part of the game.
Just saying, it's not all the class story quest, there is a bunch more.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Whilan;
I don't say so very well put. Very concise summary. Just the class quests makes this possibly one of the best value games ever....
I expect a lot of additional surprise on top of what you have listed. The main one being the collosal planet sizes and ability o explore.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Another page in and a warning from the mods. Keep up the great work everyone!
EDIT: My mistake, they deleted the post. Essentially I'm seeing how many posts it takes before people figure out both threads were bait. A little personal experiment to determine how ignorant this website truly is when it comes to reading comprehension and the ability to note intelligent from stupid (like my original post) thought processing. I explained everything I'm doing in this post, but for those watching at home, lets see how long our studio audience can keep posting for!
The IP will garner hype, but it is not the primary argument of why most who have researched the game believe it will succeed. Although what measurement of success we are talking about varies. Will it be a financial success? Very possible that it wont.
Will it be a success as in more subscriptions than most modern MMO's? Probably. Will it retain them? With what I have seen so far I have a strong reason to believe that it will have a higher retention rate than most modern MMORPG's, at least up till max level.
I will not tell you that it will keep people well invested past getting to endgame, because not much is known beyond that point. However based on the direction the meat of the game seems to be taken, it seems likely that it will keep people drawn throughout the leveling process, which is again something many MMORPG's fail at doing.
The OP is excited about the game coming out? Good!
My favourite piece of advice to people who are looking forward to a game, is to not spend it on forums. You know the way forum guys have a bad word for everything. I'm gonna sound like a Zen meditation manual here but oh well:
"Keep your mind clean of others thoughts and opinions, and explore the game and discover it yourself" - Halobump
Gahh, thanks for reminding me to re-play the KOTOR series >.<.
Hope that helps. If you want more info there is a compile list of features at http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=188836
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I am just going to throw this out there for conversation. No doubt Bioware wants to draw from WoW but if I am a WoW player why would I want to come to this game and keep doing the same things I have been doing in WoW for the past 5 years or so. Other than story arcs and voice over it sounds alot like WoW.
This will not be the best MMO ever. Current trends of MMOs are to start out sloppy and remain sloppy.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
I think they want to draw from all places not just WoW.
They want to draw from the sci-fi people
They want to draw from the kotor crowd
and they want to draw from the MMO crowd
Now if the question is if i play wow why would i want to play this game?
Well that depends on what you feel your missing from WoW that would make you want to play this game over it.
FIrst off, it's sci-fi so it has a different feel. Instead of castles you have skyscrapers, instead of bows you have blasters (like guns)
As for story? Well that depends on how big on story are you. In the case of ToR, the presentation of the story is a big thing. You are always invovled. You get choices and see how your character and the NPC react to those choices. You have the ability to change the quest entirely
Example: Instead of just walking up to a quest NPC and clicking on him and clicking accept and completing said quest then getting a reward. In ToR you can complete the quest as designed or decide the npc isn't worth your time and shoot him and his guards and take your reward (the darkside course naturally)
As for worlds. Well each planet is suppose to be fully explorable and is about the size of 3 WoW zones generally, all buildings are the same size both inside and out. Meaning you'll never run into a shack and end up in a 30 room palace.
Crew skills are set on a timer which means no power level through skills.
Flashpoints can change depending on what decisions you make. Instead of running the same dungeon 30 times and be the exact same way all 30 times. Instead you may run that same dungeon 30 times but have it be different each time.
Just a few things.
If however your looking for a completely different experience (ala your tired of theme park/class system) then you may be out of luck here.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I'd say because it's a completely different world and setting as opposed to Rift for example. Most of the classes other than the melee seam unique too, ofc there is still your holy triad. The story and voice over is a huge plus too.
You need to read a few posts above too. This is a hilarious thread otherwise.
Not only that but the art is better, the animations that we have seen are better, the overall graphics seem better, and you actually have choices in this game that go beyond: yes-I will take this mission or no-I will not take this mission. Basically this game to me looks to be what WoW could have been had they ever attempted to actually try and improve the game instead of just expanding it.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
90 minute flashpoints.Something comes Big.