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Rift and Race
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I disagree, because if your argument was valid then they wouldn't have even bothered with concept drawings. They would have always had Mathosians white and Eths black... But they didn't, it was just coincidence that it worked out like that.
LOL...THis. what Yamato showed is pretty funny. Just so you know Persians are typically Tan (if you watch the movie Xerxes is clearly a bronze tannish guy...not black) in fact most people took note of his weird adrogyny not the color of his skin. Greeks range in color, but are usually lighter than Iranians (pretty much modern persians).
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A few points of clarification here:
Character.
Souls.
Character attunes with the Souls.
The Guardians are not the best fighters reincarnated. Both the Guardians and Defiants have "chosen" those heroic Souls that will best give them the opportunity to accomplish their goals. For the Guardians, the Souls are chosen by the Gods. For the Defiants, they are chosen by technicians.
Yet, the Souls are not the Character.
But in that particular trailer, was it a case that the "character" was stating that he was not chosen to attune with the Souls for his faith - or was it one of the Souls stating that?
All in all, this particular trailer creates all sorts of problems.
Characters were chosen for their belief in the particular side - so it would make sense it was faith in Gods or faith in Science. Yet, he was not? His fighting abilities did not come from himself - they came from the Souls he has been attuned with... those were chosen for one reason, but the reason he was chosen?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
The argument is valid because that is what is in the game. Even you are not arguing against that. There was no argument as to the why - the how - etc. Only the what, and the what is clear.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
The character that you create is the Overlord of the souls for either the Defiant or the Guardian... For the guardian you are already an accomplished fighter when you begin, and you're chosen to enhance your innate gifts with the souls of others. The same is true for the Defiant you are a genetically created being with exceptional skill and are augmented with souls to increase your effectiveness...
Yo are your own character, you don't suffer from split personality. because you are a champion fighter in your own right. the souls you use are simply tools they have no possessive power over you. Which is also why you can swap them out.
Also the Defiant are creating beings not resurrecting them... So it sands that the Vigil can be resurrecting dead Defiants along with guardians.
The what negates the need for the why and how... It's irrelevant. your what is in direct conflict with my what, and since neither of us has an explanation presented with fact the two points are canceled...
There is one what - you did not argue that. You attempted to present a why and how. Which is irrelevant, even according to you... so... well... so...
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
They didn't?
I mean I've read other people's posts but I think a simple; care to defend that statement more? Question needs to be asked.
None of this addresses the concern of the Guardian character's motivations if it is not faith... then why is the character a Guardian?
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
So you feel that Trion went with the "white" hero? In regard to WAR, we have pretty claercut ORDER vs. CHAOS. This results in the "white" hero. With RIFT, neither the Guardians nor the Defiants are the good guys. Thus, no "white" hero.
White vs. Non-White, yes. But not Good White vs. Bad Non-White nor Bad White vs. Good Non-White.
Just fanatical Gods faith White vs. fanatical Science faith Non-White.
Again, my issue is that there are no fanatical Gods faith Non-White nor any fanatical Science faith White.
Given what was said in the recent trailer, it brings up the question of what is more important:
Religion vs. Science... or just simple geopolitical aggression or even just similar vs. dissimilar.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Ask Trion... I'd probably say something along the lines of self preservation... Wanting to not get eaten by a giant dragon is usually a pretty good motivator.
Your what... "Trion is racist for their in game character models." My what... "there are concept arts that show that's not the case."
Neither can prove Trion's desires. So unless you want to ask Trion yourself, it's nullified. We won't know if they are or aren't racist... it's a moot point.
There are plenty of racial choices to have in this game. There are hair styles associated with certain ethnic backgrounds. There are modifications to nose, chin, overall density, and much more including eye slant and wideness. There are also color modifications to a certain point. I think you are looking way to deeply into the whole character creation. Almost as if a racial "radical" . There are many organizations that cater to that sort of persuasion. There is the ACLU, Clu Clux Clan, and many other organizations that believe that race is a proper way to distinguish between the wonderful people that make up our brotherhood of man. But when push comes to shove and December of 2012 happens.....it won't matter what color or look or sexual preference we have....we will ALL NEED to bond together to survive. Take that from a skeptic that has done a small bit of indi-research. Plan on moving and start gathering real world survival skills in advance or get left in the huddle of useless mouths to feed and educate.
I wouldn't suggest playing racism card this early, it should be used only after all other ways to put the game down are used (of course, there's always the nazi card for the daring).
Sheesh, people really find reasons to complain.
Another person here suggested that Guardian is religiion and Defiant technology.
I think that is a much larger argument that ignites more fireworks than petty differences in appearance.
examples are all over the front page headlines and don't really need to be highlited. Let's just say that wars have always been battled over hubris and idiology that is more often that not....based on religion than anything else in humanity. One of the reasons I suppose is that religion holds an infalible truth to the person that believes in said religion. So both sides or muliple sides believe they are fighting for not only the continuation of thier beliefs, but on the side of a holy presence that will guide them to heaven either thru defeat on the battlefield or guide them to victory over the army or peoples they are battling against.
This is a problem and must stop. My hope is that by the end of this game maybe 2 years from now, both science and technology and merge as mankind to push back this threat.
Only time will tell....but that would be a better message if not all that realistic given our current divide between the two very different powers that exist atm in RL.
Come on OP, you say this:
“the key separation of the Guardians and the Defiants will be religion vs. science (though it tends to best not to try to discuss the obvious there because people are unable to separate Real Life and Fantasy.”
Then you go on to propose that the game is perpetuating racism. Perhaps you are “unable to separate Real Life and Fantasy.”?
You are cherry picking modern concepts and applying them to the game. The Guardians (supposedly white guys) are more religious than the Defiant (supposedly non-white guys). Is Trion saying white people are more religious than non-white? Is Trion saying that black people are more technophile than whites? There are no Dwarves on the Defiant side, are midgets religious zealots? The Bahmi are the biggest race, they are on the Defiant side, are big people into technology more than small people?
You introduce the thread saying how dangerous applying real world concerns are to a game and then you go on to do just that.
And of course, the Defiant are not evil, some of the ‘cool’ kids want them to be somewhat evil as they think that makes them cooler. But they are not, so there is no good side to be on.
My guess as to how they made up the two factions would be that the Guardians are the more traditional fantasy dwarves, humans and elves. So they look like the dwarves humans and elves you find in most fantasy MMO’s. Then they came to the Defiant and thought, now for something you don’t normally see in fantasy MMO’s. That’s all there is to it, leave the conspiracy theories at home.
That was not my "what" in the least. My "what" is that there is a "racial" war that is as prevalent as the Religion vs. Science war. Did I state that they went with simple stereotypes for the sides? Yes, but I did not claim they had a preference for either side. There is no "good" side. Just because there is a "racial" war, does not make Trion racist in the least. Lazy perhaps? Uninspired? Those do not quite fit in with what they have done with the rest of the game though.
Thus it is the one thing that bothers me about the game - something so simple when they have done so many wondrous things with the rest. It just does not make sense to me.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
It is not a case of stating there are not racial choices to be made - it is a case that those racial choices are based on side. They have equated racial choices with ideological beliefs - which is stereotyping. They have not shown a preference for either side, so it is not racism - but it still creates a racial war.
Is asking for a few more skin tones, a few more features - more racial diversity... a bad thing? The way many of the replies have come off in this thread, apparently it is.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
The character creator in general needs an overhaul, in my opinion.
Everything else is blowing a non-issue out of proportions.
I suppose I was somewhat dismissive of the conflict between Religion and Science...and perhaps that is part of my issue with the racial differences. The "battles" with Religion and Science know not color. Yet with RIFT, they have been divided on color as well. Should I be fine with a battle between Religion and Science? If the two had found a means to work together, could the whole mess have been avoided? Then there would be no game. Or some other reason for conflict would have to be found...
Resources, wealth, land, freedom, etc, etc - there is no big happy hug circle.
I was fine with the motivation for playing a side being dependend on what kind of fanatic a person wants to be - Religion or Science. However, with the recent trailer - even that has been brought into question.
What is the character's motivation? Why is he or she fighting? Somebody posted that it was just to prevent the apocalypse that would come to be. Yet, if the Religion and Science do not really matter - then should there not be a third faction that is trying to get both groups to work together? It is a game of extremes, but I'm just not really feeling that at this point.
Two opposing forces fighting a common foe without working together is a common theme - sometimes, working with a third party neutral faction - they even work together without working together.
Both the Guardians and Defiants have gone back in time to a key point to try to prevent the mess exists in the future. Yet, it seems as if the point in time we have gone back to is the wrong time - too late. So what is the actual motivation for the conflict - why are we fighting?
So it is hard for it not to come down to something as simple as a "racial" war between two heavily divided geosociopolitcal groups... which loses some of the magic for me.
Still, it is the only game on the horizon that I have the least bit interest in playing - and if one steps away from the grander picture of the conflict, the game is simply fun.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
That is not the point, the point is that the evil persians are portrayed as dark skinned where as the good greeks are portrayed like light skinned. That is neither based on mythologi or history.
Persians are of indo-european origin, or rather the light skinned Europeans are and are as light/dark skinned as greeks. So the question is, why was the evil Persian portrayed as black and not white?
Simple, because he was evil and for rascists: dark skinned -> evil.
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if i said this about blaack people im sure i would be banned from the forums
gotta love double standards
Nonsense. I am Iranian and Iranians of Persian origin are almost as pale as Greeks. There are some local differences, but overall that is the case.
So dont make 300 appear "realistic" it is clearly showing Persian as more like Arabs and Xerces is clearly dark skinned, not bronze tannish or whatever you make it out to be. It is clear just by looking at the picture.
But whatever, you people remind me of that saying. See no evil, hear no evil.... I guess to you the world is this paradise where rascism and other things dont exist anymore.
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the guy who plays Xerces is not black so i dont know what you are getting at. people of all races have different skin tones, not all white people have the same skin tone, some are darker than others, same goes for every race. im sure there are iranians who are darker than the average iranian.
The guy who plays Xerces is not really Xerxes, duh. He is being portrayed as black, probably by using CGI or whatever, but that is not the point.
If you fail you see the correlation between white -> good and black -> evil then I would say you simply choose to not see it, because it is evident, and no discussion will ever convince you otherwise.
So I then assume that you are claiming that there is no racism in the world either right?
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