Rift and Race

VirusDancer

Originally posted by Scot

Come on OP, you say this:

 

“the key separation of the Guardians and the Defiants will be religion vs. science (though it tends to best not to try to discuss the obvious there because people are unable to separate Real Life and Fantasy.”

 

Then you go on to propose that the game is perpetuating racism. Perhaps you are “unable to separate Real Life and Fantasy.”?

 

I did not state that.  I said that they went with stereotypes.  They did not suggest that one was better than the other.  Stereotyping != Racism.  That you and others took it this way is beyond me.  Even the TLDR at the end simply asked why there were not just more skin tones and features.

 

You are cherry picking modern concepts and applying them to the game. The Guardians (supposedly white guys) are more religious than the Defiant (supposedly non-white guys). Is  Trion saying white people are more religious than non-white? Is Trion saying that black people are more technophile than whites? There are no Dwarves on the Defiant side, are midgets religious zealots? The Bahmi are the biggest race, they are on the Defiant side, are big people into technology more than small people?

 

You may not have intended to do so, but you have brought up additional stereotypes for the game - which goes to another point made in this thread.  Why did they not approach this in a similar fashion to the way the Empire and Rebels were handled in SWG?  Why are there no Defiant Dwarves?  Why are there no Bahmi Guardians?  For that matter, why are there no High Elf Defiants or Kelari Guardians?  There is a difference though between the Guardians having a "short" race and the Defiants having a "giant" race and the "white" vs. "non-white" issue.  The color applies across all races.  Yes, Dwarves are short Guardians and Bahmi are giantish Defiants... but that does not apply to the Mathosians, Eth, High Elves, and Kelari - while the other does.  To an extent, it is easier to accept the divide between two actual races than it is for those that are the same race - but different tribes - as is the case with the Mathosians/Eth and the High Elves/Kelari.

 

You introduce the thread saying how dangerous applying real world concerns are to a game and then you go on to do just that.

 

What real world concerns did I bring in?  You and others have suggested racism - not I.

 

And of course, the Defiant are not evil, some of the ‘cool’ kids want them to be somewhat evil as they think that makes them cooler. But they are not, so there is no good side to be on.

 

My guess as to how they made up the two factions would be that the Guardians are the more traditional fantasy dwarves, humans and elves. So they look like the dwarves humans and elves you find in most fantasy MMO’s. Then they came to the Defiant and thought, now for something you don’t normally see in fantasy MMO’s. That’s all there is to it, leave the conspiracy theories at home.

 

The Eth are humans.  The Kelari are elves.  The Bahmi are less fugly orcs.  There is nothing new there on the Defiant side.

 

Go through and read the blurbs they have for the different races.

The Dwarves were neutral.  "They" sided with the Guardians out of guilt and to seek redemption.  Yet, they had worked with all peoples previously.  They built many of the machines that caused havoc over the years.  Dwarves should be able to be either Guardian or Defiant.

The High Elves were wardens.  That "they" have sided with the Guardians is odd considering the internal debate over such actions.  They would have provided an opportunity to have a third faction, but with only two factions - yes, the High Elves would be Guardians.

The Mathosians are High Elf puppets.  To the greatest extent, the schism within the Mathosian tribe brought about the coming apocalypse more than anything else.  They are one of many tribes of humans, but they are the tribe that remained the longest with the High Elves.  Thus, it makes sense that this particular tribe would side with the Guardians.

The Bahmi are the offspring of alien halfbreeds.  "They" have sided with the Defiants because the Eth welcomed them, their belief in different Gods than what the Vigil is comprised of, etc.  They would generally not side with the Guardians - they have a different religious belief system.

The Eth are a tribe that have existed in the deserts.  They destroyed their own Empire to prevent their sourcestone technology to fall into the wrong hands.  Yet here they are with the Defiants, trying to reclaim their old technology?  This just does not make sense.

The Kelari are rebel Elves.  They believe in equality of spirits and beings - instead of being subservient to the Gods.  They would not make very good Guardians in the least.  Yet, does it make sense for them to be Defiants?

And thus the issue comes to play - Religion vs. Science is not really the main conflict as it is played out in that starting video.

Dwarves should be a neutral race, ready to work for either side.

High Elves are obviously Guardians.

Mathosians are High Elf puppets.

Bahmi are alien halfbreed elemental shamanists and opposed to the Gods of the Vigil.

The Eth are neither Guardians nor Defiants...they would make a good third faction fighting to prevent the coming apocalypse while fighting both the Guardians and the Defiants.

The Kelari hate the High Elves and believe in spirit/being equality.

The "two" technological reaces (Dwarves/Eth) both sought to do away with the dark technology of their past - yet somehow one has sided with the Guardians and the other with the Defiants (neither making sense).

So you basically have the High Elves and their Mathosian puppets with the Vigil vs. the Bahmi and Kelari... in a Religious War - no technology involved.

The more one looks at it, the more it becomes clear that both sides are the bad guys - and that the players should be some third heroic faction.

nerovipus32

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by MimiEZ

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Quicksand

Originally posted by Yamota

And this surprises you? Just watch the movie 300. White honorable Europeans (Greeks, yet all Spartans are white) against the dark, monstrous Middle Easterns (Persians with a black king, yet there are no records of black people being Persian kings). Western media culture is heavily tainted by racism.

Rodrigo Santos is a black guy now?? Does he know that?  http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0763928/

Have you seen the movie? The character in the movie is clearly black and bald. That the actor in RL is neither is completely irrelevant.

And compare this to the movie good guy:

But yeah sure, I am sure it is all a coincidence.

yamota...... 300 is based on greek mythology so of course the spartans are going to be painted in a good light and the invaders painted as the bad guys. people see racism in everything, i suppose you want them to re-write mythology because it offends you. The fact that you have a problem with it makes you racist.

LOL...THis. what Yamato showed is pretty funny. Just so you know Persians are typically Tan (if you watch the movie Xerxes is clearly a bronze tannish guy...not black) in fact most people took note of his weird adrogyny not the color of his skin. Greeks range in color, but are usually lighter than Iranians (pretty much modern persians).

Nonsense. I am Iranian and Iranians of Persian origin are almost as pale as Greeks. There are some local differences, but overall that is the case.

So dont make 300 appear "realistic" it is clearly showing Persian as more like Arabs and Xerces is clearly dark skinned, not bronze tannish or whatever you make it out to be. It is clear just by looking at the picture.

But whatever, you people remind me of that saying. See no evil, hear no evil.... I guess to you the world is this paradise where rascism and other things dont exist anymore. 

the guy who plays Xerces is not black so i dont know what you are getting at. people of all races have different skin tones, not all white people have the same skin tone, some are darker than others, same goes for every race. im sure there are iranians who are darker than the average iranian.

The guy who plays Xerces is not really Xerxes, duh. He is being portrayed as black, probably by using CGI or whatever, but that is not the point.

If you fail you see the correlation between white -> good and black -> evil then I would say you simply choose to not see it, because it is evident, and no discussion will ever convince you otherwise. 

So I then assume that you are claiming that there is no racism in the world either right?

So what about people who have dark skin in pakistan or india are they black too or are they asian, why cant you just see xerces as a dark skinned persian, after all he doesnt have black facial features. black and white being good and evil doesnt related to race, and good and evil is a matter of perspective. the athenians saw the spartans as evil and barbaric in their ways.

VirusDancer

Originally posted by nerovipus32

...snip...

So what about people who have dark skin in pakistan or india are they black too or are they asian, why cant you just see xerces as a dark skinned persian, after all he doesnt have black facial features. black and white being good and evil doesnt related to race, and good and evil is a matter of perspective. the athenians saw the spartans as evil and barbaric in their ways.

To an extent, this.  There is no reason that it should come off as divided as it is.  Race should not define ideology.

Chirugai

Please stay on topic and refrain from posting hate-related content.

 

astoria

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Quicksand

Originally posted by Yamota

And this surprises you? Just watch the movie 300. White honorable Europeans (Greeks, yet all Spartans are white) against the dark, monstrous Middle Easterns (Persians with a black king, yet there are no records of black people being Persian kings). Western media culture is heavily tainted by racism.

Rodrigo Santos is a black guy now?? Does he know that?  http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0763928/

Have you seen the movie? The character in the movie is clearly black and bald. That the actor in RL is neither is completely irrelevant.

And compare this to the movie good guy:

But yeah sure, I am sure it is all a coincidence.

He's clearly black? cause of his skin color?

Hold on calling my girlfriend to tell her....

I told her she must be black because she's darker than this guy.

She says she pretty sure she's Indian since her parents are Indian.

Now I'm real confused.

At least she's not bald.

nerovipus32

Originally posted by astoria

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Quicksand

Originally posted by Yamota

And this surprises you? Just watch the movie 300. White honorable Europeans (Greeks, yet all Spartans are white) against the dark, monstrous Middle Easterns (Persians with a black king, yet there are no records of black people being Persian kings). Western media culture is heavily tainted by racism.

Rodrigo Santos is a black guy now?? Does he know that?  http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0763928/

Have you seen the movie? The character in the movie is clearly black and bald. That the actor in RL is neither is completely irrelevant.

And compare this to the movie good guy:

But yeah sure, I am sure it is all a coincidence.

He's clearly black? cause of his skin color?

Hold on calling my girlfriend to tell her....

I told her she must be black because she's darker than this guy.

She says she pretty sure she's Indian since her parents are Indian.

Now I'm real confused.

At least she's not bald.

thats exactly my point just because he is dark skinned doesnt mean he is black. im glad someone else sees this.

DLangley

This thread has gone too far off-topic. Locked.