these are valid questions but I think at the end of the day it simply boils down to what are your options.
its is your duty to support a game you think could be good? no.
Is it what you might have to do if you ever want to play a game that doesnt make you want to pull your eyes out? very likely.
its basically what I say to darkfall players. If darkfall didnt exist what would you play? would you like it? if not then what can you do to get what you do want to play? usually crying like a baby isnt it though (not saying you, some DF players though for sure)
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by Joliust Customers of course. You are paying for a service and product, not buying ownership of a company. /thread
We aren't talking about investing in a company, we are talking about investing in a game. We are buying the ownership of the game. I doubt WoW requires 6mil (presuming not all active accounts subscripted to the game) x $14.99 = 89.94 mil per month to run the servers.......Extra money will just go to the development of expansions, which require us to spend more money. A game without player's subscriptions = no improvements = half baked game. It's not they can't make improvements/expansions, its more like the won't do it without money income. Therefore we are investing on the success of the game so we can have a better gaming experience.
No, you are still a customer. Investing is the relinquishing of current assets for the hopes of getting back more than you put in at some future date. Any company reinvests some of its profits into research, increasing product value, and marketing the product to further increase products or extend the products life cycle. You are consuming the MMO when you subscribe. There is no hope for future profits, or dividends.
I could see it as charity or donations, but it is in no way an investment.
You may be thinking that you future enjoyment of a better game as your dividends/return on investment. While it is true that your happiness has value, and although it is hard to value. Here is the thing, you down own the right to that happiness that you are hoping will come to you. The development company owns what makes you happy and in the future you will have to purchase it from that company. You are not entitled to it because of your past payments.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
You are a customer of course. But that said, when thinking of it in terms of your car analogy, if the car being offered to you is missing something important, like a radio, you have an option to purchase a different car and truth is, there isn't much difference between them in terms of functionality and utility.
But, with MMORPG's its a different story, right now the larger players who have the resources to deliver a finished product are enamoured with a particular design model which they are all pretty much copying with only minor variations.
The only firms taking any risks are under funded indie development houses who really don't have the resources to deliver these games with the features and polish that many players expect.
So it comes down to a choice, do you support the small Dev even though the product isn't really worth it yet? Or do you wait and see hoping other's are willing to keep them going long enough until the game becomes what you want.
All depends how badly you want to play different games I suppose. While I normally am in the wait and see category, I recently pre-ordered Xsyon and while it most certainly isn't ready for prime time I suspect I'll find enough fun to justify the 40 buck expense.
If not, no big deal, nothing ventured, nothing gained I suppose and in my life I've wasted much more money on these games. (such as paying Blizzard 55.00 to transfer a character to another server and change his faction, now that was one of my poorer spending decisions)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
customers we pay for entertainment, that said in a case like earthrise Id be more likely to buy it, just to show there is a market for this kind of games, not really worth the money tho, since as long as games like RIFT sells, they are just so much easier to create and create content to, since the scope is very narrow, that no investors will care to create a virtual world focused game.
Customers of course. You are paying for a service and product, not buying ownership of a company. /thread
We aren't talking about investing in a company, we are talking about investing in a game. We are buying the ownership of the game.
I doubt WoW requires 6mil (presuming not all active accounts subscripted to the game) x $14.99 = 89.94 mil per month to run the servers.......Extra money will just go to the development of expansions, which require us to spend more money.
A game without player's subscriptions = no improvements = half baked game. It's not they can't make improvements/expansions, its more like the won't do it without money income. Therefore we are investing on the success of the game so we can have a better gaming experience.
No, you are still a customer. Investing is the relinquishing of current assets for the hopes of getting back more than you put in at some future date. Any company reinvests some of its profits into research, increasing product value, and marketing the product to further increase products or extend the products life cycle. You are consuming the MMO when you subscribe. There is no hope for future profits, or dividends.
I could see it as charity or donations, but it is in no way an investment.
You may be thinking that you future enjoyment of a better game as your dividends/return on investment. While it is true that your happiness has value, and although it is hard to value. Here is the thing, you down own the right to that happiness that you are hoping will come to you. The development company owns what makes you happy and in the future you will have to purchase it from that company. You are not entitled to it because of your past payments.
So the moment they decide the game isn't make any more profit and shut down the server on a game, we can't play the game anymore, and we are left with an empty box........the subscription may have be worth it as a attempted value at happiness, but what about the box price. If an mmo offers offline gameplay.....then thats another story.
Please note that I'm not trying to have a go at Subscription model, I just want to understand why people don't mind paying for Subscriptions yet paying for DLC/Expansions seems like devs trying to scam/milk more money.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Originally posted by xKingdomx Originally posted by Joliust
Originally posted by xKingdomx
Originally posted by Joliust Customers of course. You are paying for a service and product, not buying ownership of a company. /thread
We aren't talking about investing in a company, we are talking about investing in a game. We are buying the ownership of the game. I doubt WoW requires 6mil (presuming not all active accounts subscripted to the game) x $14.99 = 89.94 mil per month to run the servers.......Extra money will just go to the development of expansions, which require us to spend more money. A game without player's subscriptions = no improvements = half baked game. It's not they can't make improvements/expansions, its more like the won't do it without money income. Therefore we are investing on the success of the game so we can have a better gaming experience.
No, you are still a customer. Investing is the relinquishing of current assets for the hopes of getting back more than you put in at some future date. Any company reinvests some of its profits into research, increasing product value, and marketing the product to further increase products or extend the products life cycle. You are consuming the MMO when you subscribe. There is no hope for future profits, or dividends. I could see it as charity or donations, but it is in no way an investment. You may be thinking that you future enjoyment of a better game as your dividends/return on investment. While it is true that your happiness has value, and although it is hard to value. Here is the thing, you down own the right to that happiness that you are hoping will come to you. The development company owns what makes you happy and in the future you will have to purchase it from that company. You are not entitled to it because of your past payments.
So the moment they decide the game isn't make any more profit and shut down the server on a game, we can't play the game anymore, and we are left with an empty box........the subscription may have be worth it as a attempted value at happiness, but what about the box price. If an mmo offers offline gameplay.....then thats another story. Please note that I'm not trying to have a go at Subscription model, I just want to understand why people don't mind paying for Subscriptions yet paying for DLC/Expansions seems like devs trying to scam/milk more money.
This proves my point. The fact they can shut it down and you receive no reimbursement proves it's not an investment.
We are really only arguing semantics. We agree in idea just not in the wording.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
We are both. . our $15 a month generally is thought of as going toward server costs and also funding patches and the odd bit of content. There is no guaranteed return on the investment though however and they owe you nothing at all for the money except the month you paid for.
Customers of course. You are paying for a service and product, not buying ownership of a company. /thread
We aren't talking about investing in a company, we are talking about investing in a game. We are buying the ownership of the game.
I doubt WoW requires 6mil (presuming not all active accounts subscripted to the game) x $14.99 = 89.94 mil per month to run the servers.......Extra money will just go to the development of expansions, which require us to spend more money.
A game without player's subscriptions = no improvements = half baked game. It's not they can't make improvements/expansions, its more like the won't do it without money income. Therefore we are investing on the success of the game so we can have a better gaming experience.
No, you are still a customer. Investing is the relinquishing of current assets for the hopes of getting back more than you put in at some future date. Any company reinvests some of its profits into research, increasing product value, and marketing the product to further increase products or extend the products life cycle. You are consuming the MMO when you subscribe. There is no hope for future profits, or dividends.
I could see it as charity or donations, but it is in no way an investment.
You may be thinking that you future enjoyment of a better game as your dividends/return on investment. While it is true that your happiness has value, and although it is hard to value. Here is the thing, you down own the right to that happiness that you are hoping will come to you. The development company owns what makes you happy and in the future you will have to purchase it from that company. You are not entitled to it because of your past payments.
So the moment they decide the game isn't make any more profit and shut down the server on a game, we can't play the game anymore, and we are left with an empty box........the subscription may have be worth it as a attempted value at happiness, but what about the box price. If an mmo offers offline gameplay.....then thats another story.
Please note that I'm not trying to have a go at Subscription model, I just want to understand why people don't mind paying for Subscriptions yet paying for DLC/Expansions seems like devs trying to scam/milk more money.
The box price is for the licensed copy of the client that you use to connect to the server. Whatever the case, that seems rather tangent to the topic. Joliust pretty clearly explained it above.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Comments
these are valid questions but I think at the end of the day it simply boils down to what are your options.
its is your duty to support a game you think could be good? no.
Is it what you might have to do if you ever want to play a game that doesnt make you want to pull your eyes out? very likely.
its basically what I say to darkfall players. If darkfall didnt exist what would you play? would you like it? if not then what can you do to get what you do want to play? usually crying like a baby isnt it though
(not saying you, some DF players though for sure)
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
No, you are still a customer. Investing is the relinquishing of current assets for the hopes of getting back more than you put in at some future date. Any company reinvests some of its profits into research, increasing product value, and marketing the product to further increase products or extend the products life cycle. You are consuming the MMO when you subscribe. There is no hope for future profits, or dividends.
I could see it as charity or donations, but it is in no way an investment.
You may be thinking that you future enjoyment of a better game as your dividends/return on investment. While it is true that your happiness has value, and although it is hard to value. Here is the thing, you down own the right to that happiness that you are hoping will come to you. The development company owns what makes you happy and in the future you will have to purchase it from that company. You are not entitled to it because of your past payments.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
You are a customer of course. But that said, when thinking of it in terms of your car analogy, if the car being offered to you is missing something important, like a radio, you have an option to purchase a different car and truth is, there isn't much difference between them in terms of functionality and utility.
But, with MMORPG's its a different story, right now the larger players who have the resources to deliver a finished product are enamoured with a particular design model which they are all pretty much copying with only minor variations.
The only firms taking any risks are under funded indie development houses who really don't have the resources to deliver these games with the features and polish that many players expect.
So it comes down to a choice, do you support the small Dev even though the product isn't really worth it yet? Or do you wait and see hoping other's are willing to keep them going long enough until the game becomes what you want.
All depends how badly you want to play different games I suppose. While I normally am in the wait and see category, I recently pre-ordered Xsyon and while it most certainly isn't ready for prime time I suspect I'll find enough fun to justify the 40 buck expense.
If not, no big deal, nothing ventured, nothing gained I suppose and in my life I've wasted much more money on these games. (such as paying Blizzard 55.00 to transfer a character to another server and change his faction, now that was one of my poorer spending decisions)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
customers we pay for entertainment, that said in a case like earthrise Id be more likely to buy it, just to show there is a market for this kind of games, not really worth the money tho, since as long as games like RIFT sells, they are just so much easier to create and create content to, since the scope is very narrow, that no investors will care to create a virtual world focused game.
So the moment they decide the game isn't make any more profit and shut down the server on a game, we can't play the game anymore, and we are left with an empty box........the subscription may have be worth it as a attempted value at happiness, but what about the box price. If an mmo offers offline gameplay.....then thats another story.
Please note that I'm not trying to have a go at Subscription model, I just want to understand why people don't mind paying for Subscriptions yet paying for DLC/Expansions seems like devs trying to scam/milk more money.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
We aren't talking about investing in a company, we are talking about investing in a game. We are buying the ownership of the game.
I doubt WoW requires 6mil (presuming not all active accounts subscripted to the game) x $14.99 = 89.94 mil per month to run the servers.......Extra money will just go to the development of expansions, which require us to spend more money.
A game without player's subscriptions = no improvements = half baked game. It's not they can't make improvements/expansions, its more like the won't do it without money income. Therefore we are investing on the success of the game so we can have a better gaming experience.
No, you are still a customer. Investing is the relinquishing of current assets for the hopes of getting back more than you put in at some future date. Any company reinvests some of its profits into research, increasing product value, and marketing the product to further increase products or extend the products life cycle. You are consuming the MMO when you subscribe. There is no hope for future profits, or dividends.
I could see it as charity or donations, but it is in no way an investment.
You may be thinking that you future enjoyment of a better game as your dividends/return on investment. While it is true that your happiness has value, and although it is hard to value. Here is the thing, you down own the right to that happiness that you are hoping will come to you. The development company owns what makes you happy and in the future you will have to purchase it from that company. You are not entitled to it because of your past payments.
So the moment they decide the game isn't make any more profit and shut down the server on a game, we can't play the game anymore, and we are left with an empty box........the subscription may have be worth it as a attempted value at happiness, but what about the box price. If an mmo offers offline gameplay.....then thats another story.
Please note that I'm not trying to have a go at Subscription model, I just want to understand why people don't mind paying for Subscriptions yet paying for DLC/Expansions seems like devs trying to scam/milk more money.
This proves my point. The fact they can shut it down and you receive no reimbursement proves it's not an investment.
We are really only arguing semantics. We agree in idea just not in the wording.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
We are both. . our $15 a month generally is thought of as going toward server costs and also funding patches and the odd bit of content. There is no guaranteed return on the investment though however and they owe you nothing at all for the money except the month you paid for.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
We are customers.
You can invest in the game to keep it going in exchange for having fun, but you are still a customer.
The box price is for the licensed copy of the client that you use to connect to the server. Whatever the case, that seems rather tangent to the topic. Joliust pretty clearly explained it above.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre