Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
themepark mmo vs sandbox.
Furor
Member Posts: 374
You people never get why wow was such a huge hit. I mean even today you guys cant figure out what makes themepark mmo like wow so successful. If you had taken a look over at blizzard forum, many many playerbase are adults playing with their families, friends co workers. Those players who have hold a full time job enjoys running dungeons in wow for 3-4 hours a day makes up majority of player base. Those kind of players enjoy the factors knowing that there is fun doing wow quests, runnin dailies for couple hours of their time is warrant enough to stay subcribed to world of warcraft. Make no mistake themepark mmo isnt going to die any time soon, especially it is catering toward players who have a professional life to deal with that is the majority of wow playerbase.Blizzard caters to these type of people or consumer.
Sandbox will not be able to compete against themepark due to requiring a players imagination, time consuming.
People just want to log on into a themepark mmo to be able to accomplish progression of their characters with few hours a day and not coming home to do what was required of sandbox games. Sandbox games are niche market now and always forever. Stop being confused as to why wow is such a successful themepark mmo compare to all the games out there. the explanation is on top of this thread. You need to know why sandbox wont have as much impact as a themepark mmo does.
Comments
What WoW did was eliminate a lot of timesinks while still keeping some. This allowed you to have more fun when you logged in.
It had low requirements
It was building on a successful existing IP.
It was made by a company that had nothing but successful titles behind them.
In truth there are a lot of reasons why Blizzard has gotten the success with WoW like they have. Sandbox is a niche genre and always will be. There's a market for it for indie developers but that's about it
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
Owned!
ER.... I think "us people" understand perfectly what makes WOW and other theme park games the market successes that they are.
Perhaps it's you who fail to understand "us people" and what we prefer in our MMORPG's, even if our tastes don't conform to the mainstream.
Welcome to "our" house.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I thought it was because Wow is actually very well coded and executed. So is GW and while it never been up to Wows numbers it still have many players even now.
Eve is a really great game but the coding is just so so. The rest of the dsandbox games have horrible programming.
It is not about sandoxes or themeparks, it is not even about casual or hardcore.
The whole thing is about proffesional games. Wow does not look and feel like a hobby projet. More devs will need to do the same.
If Blizzard would have made a sandbox game instead they would still have sold fine, because they are competent.
And no, I don't play Wow, but that doesn't mean I can't see the difference between it and most other games. Some half finnished, badly coded game with too little content will always fail, no matter if it is a sandbox or not.
And a really competently made and fun game will sell a lot no matter the type as well.
People are focusing too much on sandboxes and themeparks, whats sells is fun. And buggy messes are not fun, at least not in the long run.
+1
You can say that all you want. The fact is, there are a lot of players who have grown tired of the Themepark style of game. While Sandbox games have yet to be tested with a modern, quality product, and may well be the "next" thing players want. Whatever you say won't change that.
Once upon a time....
Wow have added other timesinks instead, but they might feel better. Like the daily quests, worst timesink there is (I am not sure if Wow was first, many games added them at about the same time).
And Blizzard do have it's less succesful games as well, but it was before Diablo so wejust don't remember them.
It is not the world, if it was LOTRO would be the big game. I met few people who actually believe that Wow have better lore than Tolkiens work.
It is polish (great coding) and the fact that Blizzard fixes stuff as fast as possible instead of taking forever.
The game we thought would become the next big game at the time they launched were EQ2 but it was so buggy and small that Wow PWNed it.
Themepark MMO = amusement park. People love going to the amusement park. I don't even consider Themepark mmo's like WOW and LOTRO games, but just visual rides. I'm talking the pve aspect. PVP aspect of WOW, no matter how broken it is, I would call a game.
Not everyone wants to play games. Those that do, look for something more challanging then WOW.
Some people like Themepark mmo's.
Some people like videogames.
Some people like both Themepark mmo's and videogames.
See, the majority of people are lazy. That want instant gratification. They hate to think and actually be apart of something of their own making as that requires the responsibility of taking care of it.
Sandbox MMO's require that. You have to be responsible, plan, think, and create.
Just like our general population, in the gaming world, the majority of people are not creative. So the majority of people will flock to the "game" that doesn't require them to do so.
It's not an insult to like Themepark mmo's. I personally cannot stand them as they are just mind numbingly boring for me.
Sandbox mmo's do not have a endgame. There is no rush to max level. You create your story, and the story of the server. I definnetly feel more powerful in sandbox mmo's like EVE online in my battlecruiser that's still skilling up then let's say WOW. No matter how much purples I get, how many achievement points, or raid bosses I kill, I don't affect anything in wow. In EVE, I can literally shape what happens around me (with help from fellow players of course). Hell, in a way, you can become a raid boss in EVE.
Themepark... you are just along for the ride. And people love rides.
Have fun in that dungeon/raid you ran for the 300th time on your 8th toon.
Sandbox mmo's will always be a niche market. There's a reason why going to the park by your house and playing in the sanbox is free while going to disneyland costs some dough. The demand.
It is not so much themeparks as playing the more or less exact same game with the same old tired mechanics. The holy triad, levels, cooldowns... same attributes, same hitpoints, same classes.
A well made sandbox can be the next big one but it depends on whoever makes it. CCPs next game is interesting in many ways but I fear they might not be able to add the polish you really need to sell millions of games.
My bet is that Bethesdas Elder scroll MMO will be huge, the largest sandbox MMO ever when it releases.
But I still think GW2 will be the next big one, it really isn't either of those things even though it is closer to a themepark. But it is very well polished even now and have programmers even Blizzard have hard to compete with.
I think "those people" fully understand what made WoW a huge hit...
I think "those people" are just looking for something a lil different than the same 'ol same 'ol...
I completely agree with your post, but I just wanted to say that the highlighted sentence is awesome
I see merit in both types of games personally. I can enjoy a wide variety of games but I admit that when I play "thempark" games I do not take them seriously. They are fun to maybe pass a little time with, but not much else.
PS. check out Xsyon if you enjoy sandbox type games.
Yeah, the sandbox that is Xsyon is pretty cool. Combat is kinda wonky, but it's getting an overhaul. I'm in beta anxiously awaiting the character/world wipe next week (i think it's next week) for release.
Awesome! I am as well. I have high hopes for this game, I believe it could be something special. I really, really try not to get my hopes anymore, but I am having difficulty doing that with Xsyon.
I agree Worstluck, it's hard not to! I am having a blast myself and really look forward to playing this game extremely hardcore come release! See ya in game neighbor!
Xsyon will not have a huge following. It also doesn't need to considering it's small development team. It's never going to be big. But those that love the sandbox, and if they fix their combat soon, it will keep a loyal decently sized fanbase to keep the developer profiting and hoping allow it to grow.
It's this very misplaced sense of superiority that I never understood from sandboxers. Someone can make the same mundane overgeneralized statement about sandboxes and how socially deprived you have to be to feel like you need to 'impact' a video game.
I'm sorry. I didn't mean to strike a nerve. I didnt' try to make sandboxers look superior as people. That wasnt' my intent. Just talking about the different types of play. There is a reason they are called Themepark mmo's. Just as there is a reason the sandbox mmo's are called sandboxes.
If you are talking pure dollars, then yes, WOW is superior.. the game that i played for 4 1/2 years.
But if you are talking about pure impact, creativity, and full living breathing world you MUST interact with successfully with other people in order to succeed, then yes, sandboxes, even though they are not as popular, are superior in that respect.
The sandbox.. the themepark.. just take a sec and think about it.
You must interact successfully at a real sandbox. In a real themepark, you do not. People pay for the ride, not having to socialize to use the ride.
It's like people that play chess while other people watch a movie in their spare time (I don't play chess as much as I would like), One is not superior, but one is creating his own entertainment, while another is having it delivered to him.
Is that lazy? Is that fun? that's subjectional. But it's not wrong. And I apologize if I came off too strongly.
This is well said and I agree.
The biggest problem with todays or past sandbox type games is limitation. Limitation set by the amount of money required to produce a high quality, well designed and implemented sandbox game. Many of the newer sandbox games like Fallen Earth and Darkfall are not funded well or have highly skilled coders and talented programmers. It is because of this that the games are actually limited in scope and general quality. If a game designer that understands what a real sandbox game is and had the money and resources needed to produce an AAA quality game...I think it would do very well on the market. It might not have a million players...but then again...sandbox games are a niche' market to begin with. Look at EVE. It may not have a million subscribers, but it serves the company that produces it well and people that work for CCP make decent wages. So I also believe that it depends on the intent of the games designers on what exactly the expect from their game as to whether it is successful or not. Some people may think EVE is not a successful game. All I have to do is point to the people employed by CCP and ask you to ask them if they think EVE is successful. I doubt any will you tell you it is a failure.
Your themepark ride is here ^.^.. I will discover the city while you sit in your plastic box.
I don't want a Thempark MMO. I want a <world> MMO. Why settle for Disneyland when I can have a place as big as North America..come on. Developers..come on man
Jymm Byuu
Playing : Blood Bowl. Waiting for 2. Holding breath for Archeage and EQN.
One day my friend... one day.
All this misplaced prejudgement of laziness, dumbness, spoonfed or unimaginative players has got to stop. Some people like chess and some like checkers. Does that mean that people cannot play both? I doubt it, as I do. But sometimes I don't have time to teach, find a similarly skilled opponent nor play a more involved game of chess. Sometimes...maybe sometimes I want to play with my kids, my wife or my mother and have a quick, fun way to waste a little time. So I choose checkers. Lay out some basic board rules and get going. Does this mean they are lazier (my mother works 2 full time jobs), dumber (my wife speaks 2 languages and is better with finances) or more unimaginative (my kids have wilder dreams and imaginations than I do)?
Or does it simply mean I took the time to learn a game when others found no need to do so. And isn't that what it is all about? Finding what you like, connecting with others that also took an interest and get absorbed? Being absorbed in a sandbox game is a little more involved than a themepark, but sometimes I do not feel like getting involved all the freakin time.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Nothing wrong with being lazy for your entertainment. Just don't be offended if that's what you pick and others see it for what it is.
Your post is confusing in the sense you want people to stop calling it for what it is, but the whole thread is about this specific topic. Why come in here if at all?
If you are interested in a themepark by all means have fun in it. But dont sweat about it in a thread debating the difference between the two.
You realize the OP is basically calling sandboxes fail games right and how Themepark is everything?
Because calling someone lazy or dumb for not learning a game that serves no purpose other than to take your cash and entertain you is rather foolish don't you think? I'd see if someone was refusing to get out of the chair and find a job, go to school or learn something that is of some real use...but a game....give me a break and get off that horse before you hurt yourself.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."