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Why I think Bioware has missed the boat
ThomasN7
87.18.7.148Member CommonPosts: 6,690
Because Star Wars is not about theme park, guiding you from one place to the next. Star Wars has always been about choosing your own destiny, your own path and yes it is more of a sandbox world. It is about you living in the world you built and reacting to the events that surround you. It isn't about go fetch/kill quests like the game will have. It is about the open world war between jedi and sith, not about instanced battlegrounds. Bioware has always been a favorite developer of mine but I think they are missing the boat on this one. I'm sure alot will try it out but for the long term I'm not convinced it will last.
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I think the Star Wars franchise leans itself for several types of games. KOTOR is a Star Wars game too but not one that I'd describe sandbox/GTA like.
We've seen SWG which was one of the best sandbox MMO around and that had a limited amount of success, although nothing earth shattering. Now we'll see a themepark styled MMO game with SWTOR. We'll have to see how that one goes, although I'd be surprised if it didn't enjoy a larger degree of success than SWG did. I think a 'KOTOR MMO' will do quite well.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Current fans destroyed Star Wars IMO. Old Star Wars is about rebel vs empire, it was awesome, lots of pew pew and the like.
Current SW is about jedi, which is...meh.
Edit: Come to think about it, EvE engine + star wars lore + star wars ships.......*drool*.
Those silly boats! Maybe the winds will blow those boats back here.
Or will the 8:30 boat still come by later?
Lol. Those were 2 posts that made totally no sense to me, even when I reread them twice
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Opinion noted.
And at the end of the day, the measure stick that we use for rating MMO success on the forums mean absolutely nothing when the game launches, unless it fails so miserably that it has to shut down right away. Which is practically a 0% possibility.
Indeed, that's why I monitor MMO launches like I would a day at the horse races. It's exciting isn't it?
I agree with OP but i think the best and only solution is to wait and see, Bioware has proven to be a talented bunch even tho i think the graphics are for 10 years old and themepark is meh i still have my hopes up.
lol luke never chose his path he was pushed from one place to other by either Yoda or Obi-Wan... I don't see how you could think that a there couldn't be a succesful THEMEPARK game just because its from the star wars IP? Have you heard of KOTOR1&2? The two single most succesful Star Wars games EVER.. They were very much themepark-ish, and were very fun/succesful games.. Bioware has already stated SWTOR will play out a lot simular to KOTOR and that you do indeed have "choices" to make which will outcome the plot of the game.. So, you STILL get to chose you're destinee, but you are in a themepark game.
lol this arguement just dosn't make sense to me.. Theres plenty of reasons why SWTOR "might" flop, but being a THEMEPARK is not one of them.. Traditionally themepark MMORPG's are WAY more successful then sandboxes.. And Star Wars had already been a sandbox game, and it failed, hard.
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
I think Lucas Arts missed the boat by going with the Old Republic games instead of going with the Star Ware Exteneded Universe that Timothy Zahn started in the books. Would be great to see a MMO based on the Yuuzhan Vong War or even the Thrawn trilogy. But with the prequals and The Clone Wars cartoon all that new lore has been destroyed.
If they can actually create a story that's worth following and paying attention to, I'd say they've made a huge improvement over current themepark MMO's, regardless of the IP.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
While you have a valid point, sandbox mmos don't sell in the millions... themepark mmos do.... and this one is gonna sell big!
I'd love to see a game about this generation of star wars also.. Yuuzhan Vong's FTW! Evil bastards lol..
I still have Star Wars The New Jedi Order to read by Salvatore.. Yuuzhan Vong action in that book too xD
Currently Playing:
Rift + Starcraft II + Gears Of War 3 Beta
I agree.
It is Bioware, they are known for the story driven content, not open-ended gameplay. At least in my eyes. I don't see why they SWTOR would deviate from this.
i so disagree. First off star wars is a universe thats been settled for millenia. They have had over 2 periods of uninterupted peace in the history by this time of at least 2 thousand years. Sure the origional star wars was a bit about empire and rebels. But it was mostly about a boy from tatooine with force powers. his mentor obi wan and the people he ran into on his journey.
lets face facts star wars has and always will be origionally about luke skywalker the ultimate jedi. his finding out the man he hated the most was in fact his father and there fight of good vs evil. Evil has always been sith from darth vader and palpatine to darth bane in the expanded universe. So jedi vs sith has always been the underlying story of star wars.
i have read fate of the jedi up to the books that are released and all books in between. There are many enemies in the star wars universe but in the end it all comes down to jedi vs sith. Always has always will.
SWG was successful after about the first two updates to the game. Pre-CU and most definately pre-NGE SWG were NOT very successful. Servers were very active and populations were even growing. However, SOE chose to follow a new (and if hindsight is an indicator) but less successful path. What SWG lacked was coherent content that made sense with the Star Wars mythos. There was nothing to do relative to advancing either Jedi vs Sith or the Rebellion vs Empire. What Bioware is doing is providing what was missing in SWG but without the sandbox. Will this work out? Only time will tell. I tend to agree IN PART with the OP that the game may flourish at the beginning but because it ONLY has story that what could make it great will be what will be its eventual shortcoming...no sandbox with the story.
Let's party like it is 1863!
lol SWG was a failure from the start. Had it been a success, they wouldn't have gone to such lengths to fix it with these patches so many whiners still have nightmares about.
Really?
I think the SW movies are rather railroaded. Luke never got that much choice after he decides to talk to Ben.
The SW IP actually fit themeparks like a glove.
If you want a good IP for a Sci fi sandbox you should look at Dune or Aasimov, they focus more on creating something.
The original trillogy is amusing and I loved it as a kid but I really need to hear why you think it is sandboxy, to me everything in it could have been in a very linear themepark.
But the SW IP is not about loot and items. Bioware might make the misstake there. Luke don't care about any loot, he never loots anything at all. He crafts his own lightsaber after getting the first as a quest reward from Obi wan. XP is fine, Luke gets plenty of it.
So as long as Bioware fous on the story it works fine. But if the jedis start looting everything and only want better gear they miss the point completely.
This hits a key point here... This game is NOT about Luke. Luke was should in no way be considered an archetypal example of a Jedi. His life as Jedi was nothing like the normal life of a jedi, trained from the time they were children. Not to mention the 3000 year difference. Luke may not have looted... but that in no way means that the Jedi of the past would not have done it.
Well, the game is not about Luke but I am pretty sure that Jedis aren't about loot anyways. Experience, sure. Helping the world around them, OK. But do you really see 2 Jedis discussing how cool loot they got from raiding a Huts lair? I don't.
I can buy that a bounty hunter loots, but if we are true to the IP you know as well that jedis just don't loot.
He did a lot of harvesting though for bone (rancor scene) Green Crystal (lightsaber crafting in SOTE)
Oh actually he does loot and its full loot PVP in EP 4 he ganks a Stormie and loots his armour and weapon I bet fam boy Luke even t-bagged the stormie shouting "WTF PWNED"
Ever wonder whey they got the money for their jedi temples? Their robes, ships, weapons, etc?
Wilderness Jedi cookies, yoda, Mace, obi would go door knocking selling them imbued with Neutron Pixie they where somewhat addictive.
In all seriousness the Republic funded them BUT thats not to say Jedi did not activeley loot.
You have to remember they where in almost permanent battles/wars etc Sometimes tasked with getting x weapon out of Y's hands that is looting, like any war effort you do not go in negotiate possibly kill and leave those weapons for the next generation of enemy you take (loot) them and dispose of often breaking down to scrap.
Nah... They did it out of the good of their hearts. Well, sorta. Remember that Jedi mind trick? "these are not the droids you are looking for."
I am pretty sure they don't kill people and steal their stuff to go by.
They are either funded by taxes or donations, probably both. They also most likely own stuff that generates money, like farms or mines.
Just like the armored military orders did (Templars, hospitalizers and Teutonic knights).