I had been on the fence for months whether or not to get this game. I wasn't sure if it was just hype, would I buy the game and dislike it? I'd seen how poor combat looked but the PVP aspect looked interesting, could I overlook the combat and still enjoy the game?
I loved A Tale in the Desert and Wurm Online had some very nice crafting in it and I felt there was alot you could do in that game, but both were bogged down by a terrible crafting UI where you needed wiki's to see what tools and materials you needed to craft items and I found this to be too much of a hassle to enjoy the game.
When playing Xsyon for the first time, I immediately felt that the controls were smooth and much better then it was in ATITD/Wurm. And I much preferred the crafting process in Xsyon than in any other sandbox game. It shows you what you need to make the item with graphical icons.
The combat needs work, but functions well enough. I like how you can dodge and parry left or right depending which side your enemy is attacking you with since you can wield 2 weapons, but can only swing 1 at a time. I'm liking the full loot PVP, you simply can't go AFK in the gameworld incase someone comes along and kills you taking everything your character has on them and I can't way to see tribal warfare.
Been playing this game for a week and I'm very pleasantly surprised by it, it's a very good game with so much to do and so much depth and with such great focus on social interaction and tribal play, I'm having some great times in this game depending on tribe members to build me tools, armour and get me materials that I can't normally do and return the favour in other areas in kind.
I first heard about Xsyon on the official Earthrise boards from some disgruntled beta testers. ER's many problems have helped pump Xsyon's hype quite a bit.
To me this feels more grass roots-ish than viral. The head dev is simultaneously brilliant and loony tunes, and quite a few people are willing to buy into his vision of what the game will be down the road, myself included. Honeymoon will be pretty short, however, if they don't get the server issues worked out.
The games main appeal is building something right now. Hopefully, now that Jooky is making some money, we will see a nice stream of new content over the next year. The game has a lot of potential to be something truly great.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
Most people complain about themepark games centered around questing, "go kill X", "go fetch me X", "escort Mr. X" and so on.
But if you received a quest that said, "Please go cut down a tree, then carry back the logs from the tree one at a time." You would say, "Mkay doesn't sound too bad."
But then it would say, "Now I just need you to repeat that 30 more times, oh and when you're holding the logs you move slower than normal, and don't forget to stop every once in a while to eat and drink."
No one would do that quest, people would claim it to be the most poorly designed quest ever. But if you don't call it a quest and simply make it part of a sandbox experience, people will do it gladly.
It reminds of the whole "non-combat troops" that we still have in Iraq. They're paid the same as combat troops, equipped like combat troops, performing the same duties as combat troops, but because someone made it "official" by writing it on a piece of paper, they are Non-combat troops.
So is Xyson good? It is if you like the following:
Slow, repetitive material collection and crafting.
Combat that belongs in the early 80's with rock'em sock'em robots (Not joking, two buttons, left hand right hand, exactly like rock'em sock'em robots).
And that's it, that's everything the game offers. Their laundry list of features is enormous but crafting one thing doesn't feel any different than another. All I know is, in real life I do leatherwork as a hobby aside from gaming, and it's much more interesting to make a leather breifcase in real life than is it to do anything in Xyson.
Ultimately, you will have to make up your own mind. However, I was caught up in all of the positive feedback on the forum and decided to try it and am glad I did. Its definitely not the high octane, kill the monster type of game that is very popoular. Its a slower paced world builder with PvP FFA loot elements. There is more aggressive additions which will come in the future such as tribal warfare, but thats at least 6 months down the road.
MAv, there has actually been one very large difference with the issues at launch for Xsyon and a lot of AAA mmo's issues at launch. Instead of the devs sitting there and kinda shrugging their shoulders at the player base, Jooky, one of the devs, has been very active on the forums essentially giving the players a truthful, play by play update on what is going on ad what they are doing to fix it. they arn't saying "oh, server issues, we'll have that fixed in an hour... no wait two hours... errrr, maybe three?" etc. They have been honest and up front with the players about the problem currently happening, and what they are exactly doing to fix it. THAT is why that no matter what kind of community person you come across in the forums or in game with xsyon, you will find they are suppoortive of the devs and game.
It is honestly a nice change of pace for devs to be upfront and honest about an issue then sit there and dance around how they are trying to solve an issue etc. it shows they care about their player base. That gets my respect.
I think this isn't the complete answer.
As an example, the Rift devs have been implementing a humongous amount of changes with each beta based upon players' feedback, yet you see quite a number of jaded sandbox gamers scorn the game, its devs as well as anyone who tried to defend it, a number of those critics are the same people that try to defend Xsyon despite its flaws.
And that's the irony, (some) Xsyon fans attack and ridicule fans of other MMO's simply because it's of a game they dislike, while at heart they're exactly the same: they act and show the same so called 'fanboism' as they've accused others of being when it was about another game.
Which is ironic. There'll always be people that have the habit of scorning fans of other games and calling them 'fanbois', just because those people have fun and are positive about an MMO that those critics themselves dislike. But I think that people who do so frequently should take a good look in the mirror, often they're showing the exact same fan behaviour as the ones they scorned, but then for a game they like.
As for the OP, I don't think there's agressive viral marketing going on, and the game has some great ideas, but I see the same typical hype behaviour as seen with other MMO's, only now it isn't by 'themeparkers' for a change, but by the usually jaded 'sandbox crowd'.
That doesn't make it any less hype behaviour though.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick As an example, the Rift devs have been implementing a humongous amount of changes with each beta based upon players' feedback, yet you see quite a number of jaded sandbox gamers scorn the game, its devs as well as anyone who tried to defend it, a number of those critics are the same people that try to defend Xsyon despite its flaws. ...
The main reason I joined Xyson is for the crafting. The idea that together, with interdependent work, our tribe can craft our own village and design it how we want to is very intresting to me. Added to the factor of strong regional dependency with no global chat(coming soon) slow travel and season changes as well as planting, herding and 'dynamic' mobs that you have to hunt I think its like comparing two compeltely different games.
The 'hype' on the game is completely related to the feature list.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Xsyon went from nowhere - actually we knew about this game a long time but every gameplay report from mmorpg.com forum goer dismissed it as bad vaporeware.
Than suddenly 2 weeks from now we have a boom of hype.
Its best game - everyone says. Although it is playable for months now and nobody wrote about it. But now for two weeks everyone is suddenly playing it ?!
So - is this legit real players posting ? Or is Xyon viral marketing working overtime ? Yea ?
Let see ...
Tell me the game is good.
But you must be known mmorpg.com poster
Someone that posted a lot about other games, and was active at least a year ( and i mean active posting)
OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN
Prove its not VIRAL marketing !
Of course much of this is marketing. If a game rockets out of nowhere to the top of the rating charts, you can be sure that the devs had some hand in encouraging players to repeatedly vote up the game on this site. Perpetuum did exactly the same thing. Considering the level of criticism this game has received on the boards, you think Xsyon would be hovering around a 7.2, but the voting system is not accountable to general public opinion.
That being said, a lot of people do like the game. It deserves at least some of it's score and in my opinion is of higher quality than several of the other games listed on the beta page.
No. None of this was marketing. The developer has never once anywhere asked anyone to market the game, and has never made any sort of real effort to market the game. Period. The farthest he's gone towards "marketing" is a couple interviews given quite some time ago. What happened here was that a couple people playing the game who really liked it (and I could probably tell you who) started going out to other communities like MMORPG's, and telling everyone how much they liked it. Then some people, based off these assertions, checked the game out, bought it, and found out that hey, they really like it too. From there, they did the same thing as the first people, and then this cascade began. So in a way, this is not as much an agressive marketing campaign as much as it is a game receiving recognition based on its merits, finally.
Anyway, what I'm noticing in this thread is an interesting phenomenon typical of quite a few forums with integrated communities like MMORPG's. Now that the OP/TS/whatever-you-call-it-here has posed the question "Is it good?" almost everyone seems to want to be the seen as the cynical realist who says, "Well, this and this be true, and it may not be the game for you, but I, personally, deign to like it."
And while it's true that the game may have been lacking in content for the beta stage, the reality is that everything we DID have was brilliantly implemented. Xsyon is NOT simply one of those games that "looks good on paper but falters in the execution." It's finally a game that "looks good on paper and looks even better pixelated." Unlike Darkfall and Mortal and quite a few other "sandbox" games that have come out, Xsyon offers you an actual mutable world with depth. There's more to do than just endlessly gank and grind. It's a game that focuses on PLAYING and not GETTING READY TO PLAY.
The only real gripe you could have is the combat, and even that is getting a revamp. Normally, I would be with you when scoffing some pithy remark about "promises not being worth the air it took to speak them" and "fooling me twice," but that simply cannot be done with Xsyon. Because throughout the entire development of the game, Jooky has been in contact with the community, told them what he was working on, and then in the next update, THAT THING WAS THERE. Really, it's a rather profound thought; complete honesty and a real sense that what you think about a game could affect the way it is being made. But, if a problem came up, Jooky told people what's up, told them how he was going to fix it, and then it was fixed, or implemented, or whatever.
One of the posters above me comments on how, in themepark games, you are told to go collect X amount and bring it back to a certain person, and that going to cut down a tree in Xsyon is absolutely no different. This is, however, patently untrue. Whereas in other MMO's, you'd go to the tree, see your character perform a chopping animation, and watch the number in your inventory go up, in Xsyon, you'd go to the tree, see your character perform a chopping animation, and watch the tree fall down, never to be chopped again. Then you have to haul the logs back to the camp you and a few friends made, stopping to eat and drink on the way. And when you return, you don't simply give what you collected to an NPC, but you use it to build, say, a palisade for your camp.
What makes Xsyon different is that you are actively changing the world. No "phasing," no preset reactions, no set spawn locations. You are able to mold the very ground below you until it satisfies you. Not only is this just really, really cool, it presents an element of realism that other games simply don't offer. Even the eating and drinking you are forced to do satisfies that nagging thought in the back of your mind that you should have to. Xsyon isn't just shoehorning in pointless mechanics; everything affects everything else. If you eat to much, your character gets fat, which slows down your run speed and makes you burn energy faster. If you get too hungry or thirsty, your character becomes emaciated, and your failure rate when crafting increases, and your stats all take a negative hit.
In short, Xsyon is creating the very first true, living, evolving game world that all other MMOs seem to always promise. It's making the game that you first thought of when the idea of the MMORPG was first introduced; seriously, how many of you thought so long ago when you bought your first MMO, "Cool! Raids!" In Xsyon, you have a world, and then you have the tools to change it however you please. THAT is what makes Xsyon unique, and THAT is what is generating all of the buzz that's come up. People are seeing this new/old idea, and people are responding in a positive manner.
In my palm I hold the world, in my hand I grasp it. I loosened my fist but for an instant, and thus I failed to clasp it.
Xsyon went from nowhere - actually we knew about this game a long time but every gameplay report from mmorpg.com forum goer dismissed it as bad vaporeware.
Than suddenly 2 weeks from now we have a boom of hype.
Its best game - everyone says. Although it is playable for months now and nobody wrote about it. But now for two weeks everyone is suddenly playing it ?!
So - is this legit real players posting ? Or is Xyon viral marketing working overtime ? Yea ?
Let see ...
Tell me the game is good.
But you must be known mmorpg.com poster
Someone that posted a lot about other games, and was active at least a year ( and i mean active posting)
OR IT DIDNT HAPPEN
Prove its not VIRAL marketing !
Of course much of this is marketing. If a game rockets out of nowhere to the top of the rating charts, you can be sure that the devs had some hand in encouraging players to repeatedly vote up the game on this site. Perpetuum did exactly the same thing. Considering the level of criticism this game has received on the boards, you think Xsyon would be hovering around a 7.2, but the voting system is not accountable to general public opinion.
That being said, a lot of people do like the game. It deserves at least some of it's score and in my opinion is of higher quality than several of the other games listed on the beta page.
No. None of this was marketing. The developer has never once anywhere asked anyone to market the game, and has never made any sort of real effort to market the game. Period. The farthest he's gone towards "marketing" is a couple interviews given quite some time ago. What happened here was that a couple people playing the game who really liked it (and I could probably tell you who) started going out to other communities like MMORPG's, and telling everyone how much they liked it. Then some people, based off these assertions, checked the game out, bought it, and found out that hey, they really like it too. From there, they did the same thing as the first people, and then this cascade began. So in a way, this is not as much an agressive marketing campaign as much as it is a game receiving recognition based on its merits, finally.
Anyway, what I'm noticing in this thread is an interesting phenomenon typical of quite a few forums with integrated communities like MMORPG's. Now that the OP/TS/whatever-you-call-it-here has posed the question "Is it good?" almost everyone seems to want to be the seen as the cynical realist who says, "Well, this and this be true, and it may not be the game for you, but I, personally, deign to like it."
And while it's true that the game may have been lacking in content for the beta stage, the reality is that everything we DID have was brilliantly implemented. Xsyon is NOT simply one of those games that "looks good on paper but falters in the execution." It's finally a game that "looks good on paper and looks even better pixelated." Unlike Darkfall and Mortal and quite a few other "sandbox" games that have come out, Xsyon offers you an actual mutable world with depth. There's more to do than just endlessly gank and grind. It's a game that focuses on PLAYING and not GETTING READY TO PLAY.
The only real gripe you could have is the combat, and even that is getting a revamp. Normally, I would be with you when scoffing some pithy remark about "promises not being worth the air it took to speak them" and "fooling me twice," but that simply cannot be done with Xsyon. Because throughout the entire development of the game, Jooky has been in contact with the community, told them what he was working on, and then in the next update, THAT THING WAS THERE. Really, it's a rather profound thought; complete honesty and a real sense that what you think about a game could affect the way it is being made. But, if a problem came up, Jooky told people what's up, told them how he was going to fix it, and then it was fixed, or implemented, or whatever.
One of the posters above me comments on how, in themepark games, you are told to go collect X amount and bring it back to a certain person, and that going to cut down a tree in Xsyon is absolutely no different. This is, however, patently untrue. Whereas in other MMO's, you'd go to the tree, see your character perform a chopping animation, and watch the number in your inventory go up, in Xsyon, you'd go to the tree, see your character perform a chopping animation, and watch the tree fall down, never to be chopped again. Then you have to haul the logs back to the camp you and a few friends made, stopping to eat and drink on the way. And when you return, you don't simply give what you collected to an NPC, but you use it to build, say, a palisade for your camp.
What makes Xsyon different is that you are actively changing the world. No "phasing," no preset reactions, no set spawn locations. You are able to mold the very ground below you until it satisfies you. Not only is this just really, really cool, it presents an element of realism that other games simply don't offer. Even the eating and drinking you are forced to do satisfies that nagging thought in the back of your mind that you should have to. Xsyon isn't just shoehorning in pointless mechanics; everything affects everything else. If you eat to much, your character gets fat, which slows down your run speed and makes you burn energy faster. If you get too hungry or thirsty, your character becomes emaciated, and your failure rate when crafting increases, and your stats all take a negative hit.
In short, Xsyon is creating the very first true, living, evolving game world that all other MMOs seem to always promise. It's making the game that you first thought of when the idea of the MMORPG was first introduced; seriously, how many of you thought so long ago when you bought your first MMO, "Cool! Raids!" In Xsyon, you have a world, and then you have the tools to change it however you please. THAT is what makes Xsyon unique, and THAT is what is generating all of the buzz that's come up. People are seeing this new/old idea, and people are responding in a positive manner.
I read all that and I'm glad I did. Thanks for the post +1
I like RIFT and Xsyon for what they are and I have purchased/pre-ordered both. To those saying Xsyon players are going about bad mouthing Rift or themeparks...I just don't see it. A few people..yes...but most comments about either games seem to be ...they are what they are and I prefer this over that. Xsyon reviews and comments from players are...for the most part...enthusiastic but fair..pointing out faults as well as favorites. Some of you need to stop creating a war where there is none. We play this..you prefer that. I happen to like both playstyles.
A real sandbox that you can create your own buildings any way you want and craft anything?
Or is it a themepark sandbox, that you can craft what the devs say? IE always the same "4" buildings, houses, pairs of pants, etc?
They sure are promising a lot of stuff in six months. Without a ton of money, that seems like the usual indie dev sort of promise. Here is hoping!
There are set "recipes" for various structures. Many more that "4" though. I think the devs discussed opening up how much design control will be allowed on various structures...but that will likely be a way off. With patience though..the terraformimg can be pretty detailed...with moats and sand/dirt walls etc. I saw some pictures that actually look like big sandcastles..kind of. Pretty cool really. Especially if they allow terraforming into rock as discussed at one point. I always Imagined carving a cave home behind a waterfall..or a tribe in the side of the mountains or cliffs like the Anasazi Indians lived.
I guess I've been around long enough on this forum to be relatively immune to accusations of being a viral marketing plant.
From my point of view, this is a fortuitous 'right game at the right time' kind of thing.
There has been a drought of decent new MMOs for a while. Many people probably caved and gave cataclysm a try, and remembered why they quit WoW - same hamster wheel gameplay. Rift was polished, but it was the same gameplay style allo over again.
The big new contenders - Guild Wars 2 and Star Wars - are some way off.
Then here comes an attractive sandbox game, filling a fairly empty niche, ready to launch - which works, looks nice enough, with devs who interact with players, and a friendly intelligent community. Players have a lasting impact on the environment - unusual in today's MMOs. For $40 with 2 months included (longer than I play most single player games).
What's not to like?
Older gamers like me are naturally very attracted. If it doesn't work, it's a shame but no great loss. If it does, it offers something rather special.
I like RIFT and Xsyon for what they are and I have purchased/pre-ordered both. To those saying Xsyon players are going about bad mouthing Rift or themeparks...I just don't see it. A few people..yes...but most comments about either games seem to be ...they are what they are and I prefer this over that. Xsyon reviews and comments from players are...for the most part...enthusiastic but fair..pointing out faults as well as favorites. Some of you need to stop creating a war where there is none. We play this..you prefer that. I happen to like both playstyles.
It's really that simple.
I used Rift as an example, but what I observed is broader: I've noticed that there are quite a few posters who are persistently and oft even unreasonably negative when it's about the themepark MMORPG's. Then I see a number of those same posters - which is not just a handful but I'm not going to make a list - act like extremely positive fans, where in other gamesections they frequently scorned other posters, calling them 'fanbois' for the same behaviour only these other people were extremely positive about another MMO than Xsyon.
That's the double standard I was referring to.
For the rest, I'm completely neutral whether people play this game or that game, or whether they're positive about a themepark MMO or a sandbox MMO. There is no talk about a 'war': it is about respect and understanding, which some (sandbox favoring) people have trouble showing when it's about themepark MMO's and MMO gamers who are fan of them.
Or in short, common sense and reason should also be shown both when people talk about the games they like as well as the ones they dislike. Nothing more to it.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
And could you now finally please stop going on about Rift on Xsyon's forums please. Pretty please?
Jeez...
I don't care whether you think I meant you with those sandbox gamers that prefer to attack other MMO gamers for the same love for a game that they themselves have for another game.
I don't care whether you like Rift or a GW2 or a Xsyon or MO or WoW or not.
I mentioned Rift because it's the handiest example, I could have picked DCUO, or SWTOR or TERA or whatever for the same behaviour. I'm not even going to buy and play Rift, but whether it's a conceptual failure for other people besides you and your close friends we'll see at its launch and the months afterwards; but my guess is that it isn't a failure for a lot of people.
It isn't about whether someone likes or dislikes Rift or GW2 or Xsyon or whichever game, it was about how people are so quick to judge fans of a game they dislike as 'fanbois'. While at the same time showing the same degree of 'fanboism' and agressive defending for the game they like.
But this has gone long enough on a sidetrack. I've explained it in clear words 3 times now, if you want to read something else in it to put me in a 'prejudiced' corner, enjoy yourself.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
So is Xyson good? It is if you like the following:
Slow, repetitive material collection and crafting.
Combat that belongs in the early 80's with rock'em sock'em robots (Not joking, two buttons, left hand right hand, exactly like rock'em sock'em robots).
And that's it, that's everything the game offers. Their laundry list of features is enormous but crafting one thing doesn't feel any different than another..
I've not played that much, but this pretty much matches the experience I've seen so far.
If you are looking for a survival simulator then this is the game for you, but if you are looking for a higher order of sandbox, say like EVE or SWG was, this is not the place.
I'm waiting for launch (and stabilization) to see if it feels any different when we're playing for keeps as it were, but at this piont I'm not sure it offers enough in its present form to hold my interest. More features are on the way, perhaps that will hold me if they start releasing them.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In response to plinkplonk and MMO.Maverick (but mostly plinkplonk):
The main problem with themepark MMO's is that they are all generally the same game. More or less the same mechanics, the same ideas, the same fresh repackaging of the same stale product. You go out, click buttons to make your numbers bigger, get the uberleet gear, ride all the rides, then wait for the new rides to open.
What I find interesting, though, is how they all market their games by trying to convince people that they have sandbox elements. The RvR in WAR, the phasing technology from WoW, the "dynamic game experiences" from Rift. You would think, after a certain amount of time, one major developer would go out on a limb and make a sandbox, just to see what would happen.
In my palm I hold the world, in my hand I grasp it. I loosened my fist but for an instant, and thus I failed to clasp it.
There are definately two sides to every argument aren't there. Here is a single important thing to keep in mind.
If Rift combat was the same as Xsyon's combat, would anyone even both to play it?
That really, really is what sets the two type of games apart. Xsyon stands on its own with next to nothing on the combat side, it is a good game without it. But, you take the combat out of Rift and what have you got? Can you even play the game without it? Really? Does it 'work' still?
As to the OP question here. Xsyon's developers Notorious Games has not done any advertising on this game. The current hype you see if all from peopel trying it and actually liking it. Not everyone does, but there are enough to make it grow. And grow it has recently, far more than NG had anticipated or really planned for, that is why there is the current bandwith/server trouble they have. But, its all from the players who enjoy it - word of mouth.
So is Xyson good? It is if you like the following:
Slow, repetitive material collection and crafting.
Combat that belongs in the early 80's with rock'em sock'em robots (Not joking, two buttons, left hand right hand, exactly like rock'em sock'em robots).
And that's it, that's everything the game offers. Their laundry list of features is enormous but crafting one thing doesn't feel any different than another..
I've not played that much, but this pretty much matches the experience I've seen so far.
If you are looking for a survival simulator then this is the game for you, but if you are looking for a higher order of sandbox, say like EVE or SWG was, this is not the place.
I'm waiting for launch (and stabilization) to see if it feels any different when we're playing for keeps as it were, but at this piont I'm not sure it offers enough in its present form to hold my interest. More features are on the way, perhaps that will hold me if they start releasing them.
I think it will take a little time, for everyone to build up their tribe base to find out how this game will play out. Currently buildings are for looks, they dont do much, and anything made currently never decays, so we will have to see how adding decay effects the crafting.
It also seems like a dangerous mix of PVE'ers building stuff and pvpers killing and destroying stuff. There is a no griefing policy, which might not jive well with some people. I spent today running around ganking pvers and destroying anything built that i could (outside of safe areas). Its not like other FFA pvp games, here you really can wreck someones day, and if its considerd griefing in doing so, you could get banned.
So we have to wait and see, how long will the current game keep peoples interest, since building effects, some crafting, combat, and mobs are all not in the game. How long will it take for the game to be complete is the question, on paper a complete xyson looks pretty damn good, but as it is now, its just a make your base and craft stuff game.
So far its pretty fun, since its been lag free for about 5 hours. However, i know ill get bored with clunky combat and crafting what amounts to useless stuff shortly. You can only do so much right now, and then what? Well you go awaound and wreck other peoples stuff, and gank pve'ers, who seem to want nothing more than a pve only server...a dangersous combo with a no grief policy imo.
So far so good however, and id rather suppor these guys and their game in its current state than the pile of cud that is Rift.
There are definately two sides to every argument aren't there. Here is a single important thing to keep in mind.
If Rift combat was the same as Xsyon's combat, would anyone even both to play it?
That really, really is what sets the two type of games apart. Xsyon stands on its own with next to nothing on the combat side, it is a good game without it. But, you take the combat out of Rift and what have you got? Can you even play the game without it? Really? Does it 'work' still?
As to the OP question here. Xsyon's developers Notorious Games has not done any advertising on this game. The current hype you see if all from peopel trying it and actually liking it. Not everyone does, but there are enough to make it grow. And grow it has recently, far more than NG had anticipated or really planned for, that is why there is the current bandwith/server trouble they have. But, its all from the players who enjoy it - word of mouth.
Snailtrail: I think the ganking PvP players are necessary for PvE players. As you said yourself, there's not very much to do. If there weren't PvPers trying to destroy everything we crafters and builders achieve, soon everything would have been built and the game would become mind-numbingly boring.
I am not taking what has been posted over the last couple weeks very seriously.
There has been many videos posted and other " preview reviews " done by other players. Most of which came back with a " its boring unless you dont mind harvesting and building being the only thing to do " and the videos were pretty hilarious to watch.
Then this board was dead for a long time. And then *POOF* the first page was full of new threads.
As an example, the Rift devs have been implementing a humongous amount of changes with each beta based upon players' feedback, yet you see quite a number of jaded sandbox gamers scorn the game, its devs as well as anyone who tried to defend it, a number of those critics are the same people that try to defend Xsyon despite its flaws.
And that's the irony, (some) Xsyon fans attack and ridicule fans of other MMO's simply because it's of a game they dislike, while at heart they're exactly the same: they act and show the same so called 'fanboism' as they've accused others of being when it was about another game.
Which is ironic. There'll always be people that have the habit of scorning fans of other games and calling them 'fanbois', just because those people have fun and are positive about an MMO that those critics themselves dislike. But I think that people who do so frequently should take a good look in the mirror, often they're showing the exact same fan behaviour as the ones they scorned, but then for a game they like.
As for the OP, I don't think there's agressive viral marketing going on, and the game has some great ideas, but I see the same typical hype behaviour as seen with other MMO's, only now it isn't by 'themeparkers' for a change, but by the usually jaded 'sandbox crowd'.
That doesn't make it any less hype behaviour though.
QFT.
The people praising Xsyon to the Nth degree are a fanbois of the game, just like people are fanois of WoW and other "Theme Park" games. But Maverick you right, the Xsyon fanbois don't see themselves as that, yet call the ones defending games like WoW fanbois. It's quite ironic.
When you've played games like WoW or guildwars, where they have fine tuned there interfaces so you have (For Example) several ways to trade items, Xsyon is more RAW - as in you only have 1 way to trade an item, right clicking on someone, pressing trade putting items in and accept, dragging items to player will only try to delete the item.
Its stuff like that, that makes the interface RAW as to fine tuned...
Saying that, crafting is simular to Ryzom or SWG. You can do all the crafts if you like, but your gonna need around 20-25 tools to do so! and you wont really be making superior items unless you use superior tools and materials. So its really best to concentrate on a couple, but that doesnt mean you cant do em all !
PVP atm - well they've employed a new dev (woohoo 6 devs) so that he can work the PVP overhaul, atm you have left and right mouse buttons = left and right arm (weps can be equiped to both), so you bash em willy nilly and move around to dodge, like a boxer!
Seasons are great, we've finally seen the end to winter, spring is here now, and can actually see where the junk piles are :P
we get rain and snow, clouds move and if you know how to navigate via stars, then you can do this at night :P
For the moment this is no Map in game, however you can find one on wiki to print off.
Crafting is where its at the for the moment, and building ur tribes camp, its only time will tell how well everything else is implemented.
Its hard to judge a game when its not fully complete.
That doesnt mean its not a great experience, but its not for lazy players who want everything explained to them (though people in game will help you, read the manual, its small and the only info you get!!! everything else players figured out, so read it!!).
Its not for people who like PVE dungeons and raids, or endless quests.
Tribes make quests at there totem, you make em urself (collect 20 nails for a fish for example)
Its not for people who are gear crazy, its more twitch based combat, not spamming spells on the spot to see your dps metre rise! You'll be needing gear alot more in Xsyon because people can rob anything (apart from pre-order wep).
Its really not a game for the faint hearted, its a game where you make your own adventure!
Comments
I had been on the fence for months whether or not to get this game. I wasn't sure if it was just hype, would I buy the game and dislike it? I'd seen how poor combat looked but the PVP aspect looked interesting, could I overlook the combat and still enjoy the game?
I loved A Tale in the Desert and Wurm Online had some very nice crafting in it and I felt there was alot you could do in that game, but both were bogged down by a terrible crafting UI where you needed wiki's to see what tools and materials you needed to craft items and I found this to be too much of a hassle to enjoy the game.
When playing Xsyon for the first time, I immediately felt that the controls were smooth and much better then it was in ATITD/Wurm. And I much preferred the crafting process in Xsyon than in any other sandbox game. It shows you what you need to make the item with graphical icons.
The combat needs work, but functions well enough. I like how you can dodge and parry left or right depending which side your enemy is attacking you with since you can wield 2 weapons, but can only swing 1 at a time. I'm liking the full loot PVP, you simply can't go AFK in the gameworld incase someone comes along and kills you taking everything your character has on them and I can't way to see tribal warfare.
Been playing this game for a week and I'm very pleasantly surprised by it, it's a very good game with so much to do and so much depth and with such great focus on social interaction and tribal play, I'm having some great times in this game depending on tribe members to build me tools, armour and get me materials that I can't normally do and return the favour in other areas in kind.
I first heard about Xsyon on the official Earthrise boards from some disgruntled beta testers. ER's many problems have helped pump Xsyon's hype quite a bit.
To me this feels more grass roots-ish than viral. The head dev is simultaneously brilliant and loony tunes, and quite a few people are willing to buy into his vision of what the game will be down the road, myself included. Honeymoon will be pretty short, however, if they don't get the server issues worked out.
Playing: FFXIV, EVE
The games main appeal is building something right now. Hopefully, now that Jooky is making some money, we will see a nice stream of new content over the next year. The game has a lot of potential to be something truly great.
Sent me an email if you want me to mail you some pizza rolls.
Let me sum up xyson for you like this:
Most people complain about themepark games centered around questing, "go kill X", "go fetch me X", "escort Mr. X" and so on.
But if you received a quest that said, "Please go cut down a tree, then carry back the logs from the tree one at a time." You would say, "Mkay doesn't sound too bad."
But then it would say, "Now I just need you to repeat that 30 more times, oh and when you're holding the logs you move slower than normal, and don't forget to stop every once in a while to eat and drink."
No one would do that quest, people would claim it to be the most poorly designed quest ever. But if you don't call it a quest and simply make it part of a sandbox experience, people will do it gladly.
It reminds of the whole "non-combat troops" that we still have in Iraq. They're paid the same as combat troops, equipped like combat troops, performing the same duties as combat troops, but because someone made it "official" by writing it on a piece of paper, they are Non-combat troops.
So is Xyson good? It is if you like the following:
Slow, repetitive material collection and crafting.
Combat that belongs in the early 80's with rock'em sock'em robots (Not joking, two buttons, left hand right hand, exactly like rock'em sock'em robots).
And that's it, that's everything the game offers. Their laundry list of features is enormous but crafting one thing doesn't feel any different than another. All I know is, in real life I do leatherwork as a hobby aside from gaming, and it's much more interesting to make a leather breifcase in real life than is it to do anything in Xyson.
Ultimately, you will have to make up your own mind. However, I was caught up in all of the positive feedback on the forum and decided to try it and am glad I did. Its definitely not the high octane, kill the monster type of game that is very popoular. Its a slower paced world builder with PvP FFA loot elements. There is more aggressive additions which will come in the future such as tribal warfare, but thats at least 6 months down the road.
I self identify as a monkey.
I think this isn't the complete answer.
As an example, the Rift devs have been implementing a humongous amount of changes with each beta based upon players' feedback, yet you see quite a number of jaded sandbox gamers scorn the game, its devs as well as anyone who tried to defend it, a number of those critics are the same people that try to defend Xsyon despite its flaws.
And that's the irony, (some) Xsyon fans attack and ridicule fans of other MMO's simply because it's of a game they dislike, while at heart they're exactly the same: they act and show the same so called 'fanboism' as they've accused others of being when it was about another game.
Which is ironic. There'll always be people that have the habit of scorning fans of other games and calling them 'fanbois', just because those people have fun and are positive about an MMO that those critics themselves dislike. But I think that people who do so frequently should take a good look in the mirror, often they're showing the exact same fan behaviour as the ones they scorned, but then for a game they like.
As for the OP, I don't think there's agressive viral marketing going on, and the game has some great ideas, but I see the same typical hype behaviour as seen with other MMO's, only now it isn't by 'themeparkers' for a change, but by the usually jaded 'sandbox crowd'.
That doesn't make it any less hype behaviour though.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The main reason I joined Xyson is for the crafting. The idea that together, with interdependent work, our tribe can craft our own village and design it how we want to is very intresting to me. Added to the factor of strong regional dependency with no global chat(coming soon) slow travel and season changes as well as planting, herding and 'dynamic' mobs that you have to hunt I think its like comparing two compeltely different games.
The 'hype' on the game is completely related to the feature list.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
No. None of this was marketing. The developer has never once anywhere asked anyone to market the game, and has never made any sort of real effort to market the game. Period. The farthest he's gone towards "marketing" is a couple interviews given quite some time ago. What happened here was that a couple people playing the game who really liked it (and I could probably tell you who) started going out to other communities like MMORPG's, and telling everyone how much they liked it. Then some people, based off these assertions, checked the game out, bought it, and found out that hey, they really like it too. From there, they did the same thing as the first people, and then this cascade began. So in a way, this is not as much an agressive marketing campaign as much as it is a game receiving recognition based on its merits, finally.
Anyway, what I'm noticing in this thread is an interesting phenomenon typical of quite a few forums with integrated communities like MMORPG's. Now that the OP/TS/whatever-you-call-it-here has posed the question "Is it good?" almost everyone seems to want to be the seen as the cynical realist who says, "Well, this and this be true, and it may not be the game for you, but I, personally, deign to like it."
And while it's true that the game may have been lacking in content for the beta stage, the reality is that everything we DID have was brilliantly implemented. Xsyon is NOT simply one of those games that "looks good on paper but falters in the execution." It's finally a game that "looks good on paper and looks even better pixelated." Unlike Darkfall and Mortal and quite a few other "sandbox" games that have come out, Xsyon offers you an actual mutable world with depth. There's more to do than just endlessly gank and grind. It's a game that focuses on PLAYING and not GETTING READY TO PLAY.
The only real gripe you could have is the combat, and even that is getting a revamp. Normally, I would be with you when scoffing some pithy remark about "promises not being worth the air it took to speak them" and "fooling me twice," but that simply cannot be done with Xsyon. Because throughout the entire development of the game, Jooky has been in contact with the community, told them what he was working on, and then in the next update, THAT THING WAS THERE. Really, it's a rather profound thought; complete honesty and a real sense that what you think about a game could affect the way it is being made. But, if a problem came up, Jooky told people what's up, told them how he was going to fix it, and then it was fixed, or implemented, or whatever.
One of the posters above me comments on how, in themepark games, you are told to go collect X amount and bring it back to a certain person, and that going to cut down a tree in Xsyon is absolutely no different. This is, however, patently untrue. Whereas in other MMO's, you'd go to the tree, see your character perform a chopping animation, and watch the number in your inventory go up, in Xsyon, you'd go to the tree, see your character perform a chopping animation, and watch the tree fall down, never to be chopped again. Then you have to haul the logs back to the camp you and a few friends made, stopping to eat and drink on the way. And when you return, you don't simply give what you collected to an NPC, but you use it to build, say, a palisade for your camp.
What makes Xsyon different is that you are actively changing the world. No "phasing," no preset reactions, no set spawn locations. You are able to mold the very ground below you until it satisfies you. Not only is this just really, really cool, it presents an element of realism that other games simply don't offer. Even the eating and drinking you are forced to do satisfies that nagging thought in the back of your mind that you should have to. Xsyon isn't just shoehorning in pointless mechanics; everything affects everything else. If you eat to much, your character gets fat, which slows down your run speed and makes you burn energy faster. If you get too hungry or thirsty, your character becomes emaciated, and your failure rate when crafting increases, and your stats all take a negative hit.
In short, Xsyon is creating the very first true, living, evolving game world that all other MMOs seem to always promise. It's making the game that you first thought of when the idea of the MMORPG was first introduced; seriously, how many of you thought so long ago when you bought your first MMO, "Cool! Raids!" In Xsyon, you have a world, and then you have the tools to change it however you please. THAT is what makes Xsyon unique, and THAT is what is generating all of the buzz that's come up. People are seeing this new/old idea, and people are responding in a positive manner.
In my palm I hold the world, in my hand I grasp it.
I loosened my fist but for an instant,
and thus I failed to clasp it.
I read all that and I'm glad I did. Thanks for the post +1
I like RIFT and Xsyon for what they are and I have purchased/pre-ordered both. To those saying Xsyon players are going about bad mouthing Rift or themeparks...I just don't see it. A few people..yes...but most comments about either games seem to be ...they are what they are and I prefer this over that. Xsyon reviews and comments from players are...for the most part...enthusiastic but fair..pointing out faults as well as favorites. Some of you need to stop creating a war where there is none. We play this..you prefer that. I happen to like both playstyles.
It's really that simple.
A real sandbox that you can create your own buildings any way you want and craft anything?
Or is it a themepark sandbox, that you can craft what the devs say? IE always the same "4" buildings, houses, pairs of pants, etc?
They sure are promising a lot of stuff in six months. Without a ton of money, that seems like the usual indie dev sort of promise. Here is hoping!
There are set "recipes" for various structures. Many more that "4" though. I think the devs discussed opening up how much design control will be allowed on various structures...but that will likely be a way off. With patience though..the terraformimg can be pretty detailed...with moats and sand/dirt walls etc. I saw some pictures that actually look like big sandcastles..kind of. Pretty cool really. Especially if they allow terraforming into rock as discussed at one point. I always Imagined carving a cave home behind a waterfall..or a tribe in the side of the mountains or cliffs like the Anasazi Indians lived.
I guess I've been around long enough on this forum to be relatively immune to accusations of being a viral marketing plant.
From my point of view, this is a fortuitous 'right game at the right time' kind of thing.
There has been a drought of decent new MMOs for a while. Many people probably caved and gave cataclysm a try, and remembered why they quit WoW - same hamster wheel gameplay. Rift was polished, but it was the same gameplay style allo over again.
The big new contenders - Guild Wars 2 and Star Wars - are some way off.
Then here comes an attractive sandbox game, filling a fairly empty niche, ready to launch - which works, looks nice enough, with devs who interact with players, and a friendly intelligent community. Players have a lasting impact on the environment - unusual in today's MMOs. For $40 with 2 months included (longer than I play most single player games).
What's not to like?
Older gamers like me are naturally very attracted. If it doesn't work, it's a shame but no great loss. If it does, it offers something rather special.
As far as customization goes, I think Willbonney's keep/fort is the best example: http://www.xsyon.com/forum/showthread.php/2905-Building-My-Keep
In my palm I hold the world, in my hand I grasp it.
I loosened my fist but for an instant,
and thus I failed to clasp it.
I used Rift as an example, but what I observed is broader: I've noticed that there are quite a few posters who are persistently and oft even unreasonably negative when it's about the themepark MMORPG's. Then I see a number of those same posters - which is not just a handful but I'm not going to make a list - act like extremely positive fans, where in other gamesections they frequently scorned other posters, calling them 'fanbois' for the same behaviour only these other people were extremely positive about another MMO than Xsyon.
That's the double standard I was referring to.
For the rest, I'm completely neutral whether people play this game or that game, or whether they're positive about a themepark MMO or a sandbox MMO. There is no talk about a 'war': it is about respect and understanding, which some (sandbox favoring) people have trouble showing when it's about themepark MMO's and MMO gamers who are fan of them.
Or in short, common sense and reason should also be shown both when people talk about the games they like as well as the ones they dislike. Nothing more to it.
/offtopic
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I don't care whether you think I meant you with those sandbox gamers that prefer to attack other MMO gamers for the same love for a game that they themselves have for another game.
I don't care whether you like Rift or a GW2 or a Xsyon or MO or WoW or not.
I mentioned Rift because it's the handiest example, I could have picked DCUO, or SWTOR or TERA or whatever for the same behaviour. I'm not even going to buy and play Rift, but whether it's a conceptual failure for other people besides you and your close friends we'll see at its launch and the months afterwards; but my guess is that it isn't a failure for a lot of people.
It isn't about whether someone likes or dislikes Rift or GW2 or Xsyon or whichever game, it was about how people are so quick to judge fans of a game they dislike as 'fanbois'. While at the same time showing the same degree of 'fanboism' and agressive defending for the game they like.
But this has gone long enough on a sidetrack. I've explained it in clear words 3 times now, if you want to read something else in it to put me in a 'prejudiced' corner, enjoy yourself.
It's back to OP topic for me.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I've not played that much, but this pretty much matches the experience I've seen so far.
If you are looking for a survival simulator then this is the game for you, but if you are looking for a higher order of sandbox, say like EVE or SWG was, this is not the place.
I'm waiting for launch (and stabilization) to see if it feels any different when we're playing for keeps as it were, but at this piont I'm not sure it offers enough in its present form to hold my interest. More features are on the way, perhaps that will hold me if they start releasing them.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
In response to plinkplonk and MMO.Maverick (but mostly plinkplonk):
The main problem with themepark MMO's is that they are all generally the same game. More or less the same mechanics, the same ideas, the same fresh repackaging of the same stale product. You go out, click buttons to make your numbers bigger, get the uberleet gear, ride all the rides, then wait for the new rides to open.
What I find interesting, though, is how they all market their games by trying to convince people that they have sandbox elements. The RvR in WAR, the phasing technology from WoW, the "dynamic game experiences" from Rift. You would think, after a certain amount of time, one major developer would go out on a limb and make a sandbox, just to see what would happen.
In my palm I hold the world, in my hand I grasp it.
I loosened my fist but for an instant,
and thus I failed to clasp it.
There are definately two sides to every argument aren't there. Here is a single important thing to keep in mind.
If Rift combat was the same as Xsyon's combat, would anyone even both to play it?
That really, really is what sets the two type of games apart. Xsyon stands on its own with next to nothing on the combat side, it is a good game without it. But, you take the combat out of Rift and what have you got? Can you even play the game without it? Really? Does it 'work' still?
As to the OP question here. Xsyon's developers Notorious Games has not done any advertising on this game. The current hype you see if all from peopel trying it and actually liking it. Not everyone does, but there are enough to make it grow. And grow it has recently, far more than NG had anticipated or really planned for, that is why there is the current bandwith/server trouble they have. But, its all from the players who enjoy it - word of mouth.
I think it will take a little time, for everyone to build up their tribe base to find out how this game will play out. Currently buildings are for looks, they dont do much, and anything made currently never decays, so we will have to see how adding decay effects the crafting.
It also seems like a dangerous mix of PVE'ers building stuff and pvpers killing and destroying stuff. There is a no griefing policy, which might not jive well with some people. I spent today running around ganking pvers and destroying anything built that i could (outside of safe areas). Its not like other FFA pvp games, here you really can wreck someones day, and if its considerd griefing in doing so, you could get banned.
So we have to wait and see, how long will the current game keep peoples interest, since building effects, some crafting, combat, and mobs are all not in the game. How long will it take for the game to be complete is the question, on paper a complete xyson looks pretty damn good, but as it is now, its just a make your base and craft stuff game.
So far its pretty fun, since its been lag free for about 5 hours. However, i know ill get bored with clunky combat and crafting what amounts to useless stuff shortly. You can only do so much right now, and then what? Well you go awaound and wreck other peoples stuff, and gank pve'ers, who seem to want nothing more than a pve only server...a dangersous combo with a no grief policy imo.
So far so good however, and id rather suppor these guys and their game in its current state than the pile of cud that is Rift.
/100% agree
Snailtrail: I think the ganking PvP players are necessary for PvE players. As you said yourself, there's not very much to do. If there weren't PvPers trying to destroy everything we crafters and builders achieve, soon everything would have been built and the game would become mind-numbingly boring.
I am not taking what has been posted over the last couple weeks very seriously.
There has been many videos posted and other " preview reviews " done by other players. Most of which came back with a " its boring unless you dont mind harvesting and building being the only thing to do " and the videos were pretty hilarious to watch.
Then this board was dead for a long time. And then *POOF* the first page was full of new threads.
Smells like marketing to me.
QFT.
The people praising Xsyon to the Nth degree are a fanbois of the game, just like people are fanois of WoW and other "Theme Park" games. But Maverick you right, the Xsyon fanbois don't see themselves as that, yet call the ones defending games like WoW fanbois. It's quite ironic.
Im a real player!
Its not perfect, but its a breath of fresh air.
When you've played games like WoW or guildwars, where they have fine tuned there interfaces so you have (For Example) several ways to trade items, Xsyon is more RAW - as in you only have 1 way to trade an item, right clicking on someone, pressing trade putting items in and accept, dragging items to player will only try to delete the item.
Its stuff like that, that makes the interface RAW as to fine tuned...
Saying that, crafting is simular to Ryzom or SWG. You can do all the crafts if you like, but your gonna need around 20-25 tools to do so! and you wont really be making superior items unless you use superior tools and materials. So its really best to concentrate on a couple, but that doesnt mean you cant do em all !
PVP atm - well they've employed a new dev (woohoo 6 devs) so that he can work the PVP overhaul, atm you have left and right mouse buttons = left and right arm (weps can be equiped to both), so you bash em willy nilly and move around to dodge, like a boxer!
Seasons are great, we've finally seen the end to winter, spring is here now, and can actually see where the junk piles are :P
we get rain and snow, clouds move and if you know how to navigate via stars, then you can do this at night :P
For the moment this is no Map in game, however you can find one on wiki to print off.
Crafting is where its at the for the moment, and building ur tribes camp, its only time will tell how well everything else is implemented.
Its hard to judge a game when its not fully complete.
That doesnt mean its not a great experience, but its not for lazy players who want everything explained to them (though people in game will help you, read the manual, its small and the only info you get!!! everything else players figured out, so read it!!).
Its not for people who like PVE dungeons and raids, or endless quests.
Tribes make quests at there totem, you make em urself (collect 20 nails for a fish for example)
Its not for people who are gear crazy, its more twitch based combat, not spamming spells on the spot to see your dps metre rise! You'll be needing gear alot more in Xsyon because people can rob anything (apart from pre-order wep).
Its really not a game for the faint hearted, its a game where you make your own adventure!