PKer is defined as someone who PvP's in a manner that ruins the gameplay of their victims.
Since when?
Since the labels evolved back in the days of Dark Age of Camelot and Ultima Online, when most people labeled themeslves as PvPers and the PvP griefers as PKers.
Then someone forgot to send the PKs, Noto-PKs, Antis and every other variation of PVPers in UO that memo.
You must have been living under a rock because its been that way for a long time even before UO.
If you sign onto an MMORPG that has very loose reigns on PvP, or onto a MMORPG server that has looser rules specifically for PvP, then you should already know what you're going into.
There's of course games that have on a single server a mix of PvE-centric and PvP-centric areas. If you go into a PvP zone, you better have your A-Game on. This really matters to the mostly PvE players that consider going into a PvP zone due to certain game enticements / rewards. And they usually provide a warning before you enter such a zone.
Again, don't complain of PvP mechanics if you're signed up for a game that specifically caters to that. Just as PvE players flock to a PvE type of game, PvPers will flock to games with worthwhile PvP mechanics.
The phrase, "You signed the dotted line" comes readily to mind.
And yes, PKer's can be nice people IRL. Some people play their RL personality in games. Some don't.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I’m surprised so many people on this website have degrees in psychology. Where you can psycho analyze a person’s emotional state just by how they act in an online game. The fact is that anybody can be a PKer. It doesn’t take any special type of person to do it. It doesn’t take some guy who is mad at world and generally an “A” hole. People all have different play styles but that mean they are different from you and me. A PKer can just be a person that love the thrill of pvp and wants to get it whenever they can.
When I first started playing UO back in 98, I loved pvp. I used to PK as well although after I PKed a someone I would usually rez them. I was doing it just so they would put a bounty on my head and I could make the bounty list in town.
I don’t think that Pkers in general are jerks. I just think that’s the aspect of a game that they enjoy. There are some that are genuine jerks but you will never know this until you actual talk to them. I know someone will come out with “Actions are louder than words!” or something to that extent. But let’s face the action isn’t real. It’s still just a game but in an online world communication is about as real as it can get. That’s just my 2 cents though.
Well, lets take alook at this from a couple different viewpoints.
Exibit A ) 15 year old Danny is a nerd. He gets picked on at school because he's... well.. a stereotypical nerd. Think about that for a moment. every day at school he encounters this one jock at school that picks on him mercilessly. Obviously Danny starts to harbor some resentment towards this jock. This happens everyday in schools around the world. now... Danny like playing computer games, specifically mmo's. He see's a way to vent his anger he has at the jock in a safe and harmless enviroment, so he picks up a copy of DFO, UO, whatever full on pvp game you want to consider and he goes to "work". He ganks people, loots all their stuff etc. HE's not, in fact, a bad person. He's just wisely choosing a safe and controlled way to vent his frustration at not being able to do anything about the jock picking on him. its how he gets through the day. Sure, he could go to a teacher, or the principle or even his parents, but anyone that knows someone who's done that knows the consequences. All doing that does, is get said jock in a small amount of trouble for a short time, and during that time, the jocks friends take over for where the jock left off. it gets worse and worse. Yes you can say, that's just life. But there is no denying that humans are instinctually competative. It is our will to survive. Danny is choosing to survive highschool not by lashing out, not by hurting anyone, but by releasing his frustrations out online in a game where he is hurting zero people.
Exibit Sharon is a 43 year old stay at home mom. She has two children who are in school, and a husband that works to support his family. She loves her family and has a relatively happy marriage. During the day while no one is home, she plays mmo's because she has friends on there. When she first started playing she had no clue what she was doing and ended up getting ganked quite a few times. Instead of sitting there whining about it, or leaving the friends she had made in game, she took matters into her own hands and learned how to deal with getting ganked. She doesn't kill people randomly for the most part, but she does gank members of the opposite faction anytime she see's them. She has gotten very good at this. Every once in a while she'll even let out a girlish giggle as she ganks someone herself. she's come to enjoy doing this. Does this make her a bad person? not really. She knows it's more of an escape from reality then anything else. She does have her own moral code, she grounded her son last weekend when she found out he's been smoking at the age of 14.
Exibit C ) meet Chuck. Chuck is a 35 year old who grew up in a household that hunted. He's bagged deer, moose, and even a bear once. His dad was your stereotypical 70's father. A bit of a hardass and stuck in his ways, but a pretty good guy. Chuck has become quite a bit like his dad in certain ways. He likes the thrill of the hunt. A friend introduced him to games where he can get that same thrill of the hunt while not being up at 5:30 in the morning sitting in a blind waiting with a set of antler to clack together with the smell of deer piss nearby. He hunts players online, he doesn't care about looting anything except as a trophy. He doesn't taunt those he kills, just being content to add another notch to his belt so to speak. He holds down a job and actually helps with the local soup kitchen at times.
Exibit D) meet brad. He's in his early 20's and grew up enjoying the benefits of a faceless community. HE grew up with the internet. He comes from a background of more fps style games and enjoys taunting those he kills. their anger and outbursts from being killed makes him smile, and laugh, and feel a little bit better about himself. HE didn't come from a broken home, but the online world raised him more then his parents did. While they worked most of the time, he would sit there playing games online. He learned the term "u got pwned" at a very early age. His parents felt that at least playign computer games was better then doing drugs, so they just let him be. He talks smack with every kill, whines when he gets beat himself and looks for revenge. He takes it past the game too, lurking on forums and making smart assed remarks against those that he's killed or bitches in threads of people that have killed him.
Now, i personally have met each one of these type of gamers that enjoy pvp. Personally, i'm not the hugest fan of pvp, but that is because i kinda suck at it. The point of this is simply that you don't know who the person is behind the other side of the screen. it could be a housewife, it could be a guy who enjoys hunting. ANYBODY could be someone that enjoys killing other people online. Hell, the local pastor at the church down the road could of been that lvl 80 orc that came along and ganked you in hyjal the other day. The point is, you never know. When most pk'ers come across someone, they arn't seeing it as a personal attack against you. That's the problem most people that get ganked have. They make it personal... it ISN'T. Unless you have gone out of your way to piss someone off, the attack against you isn't personal at all. Whether killing you makes the person feel better about themself, or satisfaction for being on the ganker end instead of the gankee end, it doesn't matter.
What matters is what you can do to protect yourself. Firstly, don't take it personally and get bent out of shape. Yes, you might have ended up losing that awesome +5 sword you just got if the game you are playing has looting abilities in pvp, but is it worth it to stamp your feet and act like a petulent child? i don't think so.
You have a few different options, one is the "bigger bully" method. Join up with a group of people that are better fighters then yourself. They come at you with a big stick, simply get your buddies with a bigger stick to go after them to chase them off. another is to learn to protect yourself. Take a look at how you have your character, and adjust things accordingly. it may not be the specific style you want to play, but you need to learn to compromise with it. If you suck at fighting back like me, learn to be sneakier. if the game has a hide ability to it, learn to make it your best friend. Don't randomly wander into an area you are unsure if there is a aganker in. That, or learn to run when you see a ganker coming. keep your eyes peeled, look around constantly. a large part of how a ganker gets his kills is from surprise. They jump you and do most of their damage before you realize what's going on. I've known some gankers to leave someone alone because they were ready for the fight. Bitching will get you nowhere in the long run, so quit doing it. all it does is annoy everyone around you and makes the person gankign you (depending who they are behind the computer) feel smug, or laugh, etc. whining doesn't help your situation. Actively pushing forward to better your situation does.
yes i've gone off topic, but at the core of it all i've remained true to my point. YOU don't know the person on the other end of the fight. they may be a priest, or a kid in highschool, or a housewife. Just because they ganked you, doesn't make them a bad person. Remember, these are just games and they are not real. I would rather 15yo Danny vent his frustrations in a game then let them build up to the point they do somethign crazy to people in RL. Danny isn't a bad kid, he's just frustrated. Sharon isn't a bad woman, she's just havign a little fun with pixels. Chuck isn't a bad guy, he just prefers to do his hunting a little warmer then normal. You never know.
You cannot generalize people by an act in game where everyone is faceless.
PKer is defined as someone who PvP's in a manner that ruins the gameplay of their victims.
Since when?
Since the labels evolved back in the days of Dark Age of Camelot and Ultima Online, when most people labeled themeslves as PvPers and the PvP griefers as PKers.
Then someone forgot to send the PKs, Noto-PKs, Antis and every other variation of PVPers in UO that memo.
You must have been living under a rock because its been that way for a long time even before UO.
Honestly, if you really want to ignore the definiton and links above fine. If you want to go back further, we can go back to the PK MUDs:
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Well, lets take alook at this from a couple different viewpoints.
Exibit A ) 15 year old Danny is a nerd. He gets picked on at school because he's... well.. a stereotypical nerd. Think about that for a moment. every day at school he encounters this one jock at school that picks on him mercilessly. Obviously Danny starts to harbor some resentment towards this jock. This happens everyday in schools around the world. now... Danny like playing computer games, specifically mmo's. He see's a way to vent his anger he has at the jock in a safe and harmless enviroment, so he picks up a copy of DFO, UO, whatever full on pvp game you want to consider and he goes to "work". He ganks people, loots all their stuff etc. HE's not, in fact, a bad person. He's just wisely choosing a safe and controlled way to vent his frustration at not being able to do anything about the jock picking on him. its how he gets through the day. Sure, he could go to a teacher, or the principle or even his parents, but anyone that knows someone who's done that knows the consequences. All doing that does, is get said jock in a small amount of trouble for a short time, and during that time, the jocks friends take over for where the jock left off. it gets worse and worse. Yes you can say, that's just life. But there is no denying that humans are instinctually competative. It is our will to survive. Danny is choosing to survive highschool not by lashing out, not by hurting anyone, but by releasing his frustrations out online in a game where he is hurting zero people.
Exibit Sharon is a 43 year old stay at home mom. She has two children who are in school, and a husband that works to support his family. She loves her family and has a relatively happy marriage. During the day while no one is home, she plays mmo's because she has friends on there. When she first started playing she had no clue what she was doing and ended up getting ganked quite a few times. Instead of sitting there whining about it, or leaving the friends she had made in game, she took matters into her own hands and learned how to deal with getting ganked. She doesn't kill people randomly for the most part, but she does gank members of the opposite faction anytime she see's them. She has gotten very good at this. Every once in a while she'll even let out a girlish giggle as she ganks someone herself. she's come to enjoy doing this. Does this make her a bad person? not really. She knows it's more of an escape from reality then anything else. She does have her own moral code, she grounded her son last weekend when she found out he's been smoking at the age of 14.
Exibit C ) meet Chuck. Chuck is a 35 year old who grew up in a household that hunted. He's bagged deer, moose, and even a bear once. His dad was your stereotypical 70's father. A bit of a hardass and stuck in his ways, but a pretty good guy. Chuck has become quite a bit like his dad in certain ways. He likes the thrill of the hunt. A friend introduced him to games where he can get that same thrill of the hunt while not being up at 5:30 in the morning sitting in a blind waiting with a set of antler to clack together with the smell of deer piss nearby. He hunts players online, he doesn't care about looting anything except as a trophy. He doesn't taunt those he kills, just being content to add another notch to his belt so to speak. He holds down a job and actually helps with the local soup kitchen at times.
Exibit D) meet brad. He's in his early 20's and grew up enjoying the benefits of a faceless community. HE grew up with the internet. He comes from a background of more fps style games and enjoys taunting those he kills. their anger and outbursts from being killed makes him smile, and laugh, and feel a little bit better about himself. HE didn't come from a broken home, but the online world raised him more then his parents did. While they worked most of the time, he would sit there playing games online. He learned the term "u got pwned" at a very early age. His parents felt that at least playign computer games was better then doing drugs, so they just let him be. He talks smack with every kill, whines when he gets beat himself and looks for revenge. He takes it past the game too, lurking on forums and making smart assed remarks against those that he's killed or bitches in threads of people that have killed him.
Ok, i understand your point. My friend is just like brad, but he is 16 years old. Is he a bad person, he stays away from drugs and beer, does his chores, and is nice to random people. Is he a bad person? Where is the line between the game and real life, where is the line between being a dick and being a bad person? Say someone is nice to people but is a pedo, he is a bad person, but not a dick. A bad person who be like a criminal, a person who will kill you, or breaks rules just to break them all the time. A dick s someone who is mean, but not bad. He might donate to charity, or help the elderly. He might also make fun of you, but to him he is messing with you and isn't tring to "hurt" you. So is killing someone online and being a dick about it is being a bad person?
It's a game. It has nothing to do with real life. If you roll a toon on a pvp server or play in a game that advertises pvp, you should expect that it will happen. The problem is, people don't see the enemy as another person , but more like a big red target that needs to be taken out. You are just pixels on the screen.
It's like saying a soccer player is a bad person for scoring a goal. lol
I think many people who do PK have some sort of RL issues. Even if they're taking virtual property or ending another's virtual life, the fact that they get some sort of real pleasure out of it and don't care about the victim shows they have some issues.
The fact is, they are preying on other people without any kind of empathy and it gives them pleasure. Twisted? You decide.
Also, I don't think how a person acts in real life is really any indication of how stable they are. There are serial killers that can appear to be the nicest person in the world.
I think many people who do PK have some sort of RL issues. Even if they're taking virtual property or ending another's virtual life, the fact that they get some sort of real pleasure out of it and don't care about the victim shows they have some issues.
The fact is, they are preying on other people without any kind of empathy and it gives them pleasure. Twisted? You decide.
Also, I don't think how a person acts in real life is really any indication of how stable they are. There are serial killers that can appear to be the nicest person in the world.
OMG...
The game gives you abilities to use against your enemy. So if you use them , then all of a sudden that makes you the same as a serial killer?
Maybe there is something wrong with the people that are saying stuff like this?
PVP is a large part of most games, and the only reason some people even play them. It is like a sport for some. It is competitive in nature. It's like playing mortal kombat with your friend and then crying on the forums because you got killed.
I think many people who do PK have some sort of RL issues. Even if they're taking virtual property or ending another's virtual life, the fact that they get some sort of real pleasure out of it and don't care about the victim shows they have some issues.
The fact is, they are preying on other people without any kind of empathy and it gives them pleasure. Twisted? You decide.
Also, I don't think how a person acts in real life is really any indication of how stable they are. There are serial killers that can appear to be the nicest person in the world.
OMG...
The game gives you abilities to use against your enemy. So if you use them , then all of a sudden that makes you the same as a serial killer?
Maybe there is something wrong with the people that are saying stuff like this?
PVP is a large part of most games, and the only reason some people even play them. It is like a sport for some. It is competitive in nature. It's like playing mortal kombat with your friend and then crying on the forums because you got killed.
Your reading comprehension isn't very good. I wasn't saying PKing makes you the same as a serial killer, I was saying taking pleasure at another's misfortune isn't a sign of a healthy individual.
I think many people who do PK have some sort of RL issues. Even if they're taking virtual property or ending another's virtual life, the fact that they get some sort of real pleasure out of it and don't care about the victim shows they have some issues.
The fact is, they are preying on other people without any kind of empathy and it gives them pleasure. Twisted? You decide.
Also, I don't think how a person acts in real life is really any indication of how stable they are. There are serial killers that can appear to be the nicest person in the world.
OMG...
The game gives you abilities to use against your enemy. So if you use them , then all of a sudden that makes you the same as a serial killer?
Maybe there is something wrong with the people that are saying stuff like this?
PVP is a large part of most games, and the only reason some people even play them. It is like a sport for some. It is competitive in nature. It's like playing mortal kombat with your friend and then crying on the forums because you got killed.
Your reading comprehension isn't very good. I wasn't saying PKing makes you the same as a serial killer, I was saying taking pleasure at another's misfortune isn't a sign of a healthy individual.
The millenials have painted their existence on a cold, compassionless plastic canvas that we know as the internet.
I think theres a certain level of dehumanizing being experienced by todays youth. Action without consequence can be a dangerous thing. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out 20 to 30 years from now.
I expect this generation will be a case study revisited countless times in the future.
I think many people who do PK have some sort of RL issues. Even if they're taking virtual property or ending another's virtual life, the fact that they get some sort of real pleasure out of it and don't care about the victim shows they have some issues.
The fact is, they are preying on other people without any kind of empathy and it gives them pleasure. Twisted? You decide.
Also, I don't think how a person acts in real life is really any indication of how stable they are. There are serial killers that can appear to be the nicest person in the world.
OMG...
The game gives you abilities to use against your enemy. So if you use them , then all of a sudden that makes you the same as a serial killer?
Maybe there is something wrong with the people that are saying stuff like this?
PVP is a large part of most games, and the only reason some people even play them. It is like a sport for some. It is competitive in nature. It's like playing mortal kombat with your friend and then crying on the forums because you got killed.
Your reading comprehension isn't very good. I wasn't saying PKing makes you the same as a serial killer, I was saying taking pleasure at another's misfortune isn't a sign of a healthy individual.
The millenials have painted their existence on a cold, compassionless plastic canvas that we know as the internet.
I think theres a certain level of dehumanizing being experienced by todays youth. Action without consequence can be a dangerous thing. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out 20 to 30 years from now.
I expect this generation will be a case study revisited countless times in the future.
I would agree there is an interesting "something" happening because of the internet and how people socialize because of it.
But again, if I make a game where you can be ganked I expect the players who buy the game to understand this and be on board with it.
Let's put it this way, I can't play EVE because I just don't have the time and patience to recover from losing my stuff. But I would never in a million years blame the most experienced EVE player from ganking me and taking my stuff. Or even "podding" me (is that still in the game?)
I don't understand why people don't take responsibility for their gaming and only play games where they are on board with the penalties?
I went into Dark Fall (which is a pretty good game besides some of its issues) and I went out knowing full well I was going to be ganked. I went a'skippin' down the road ready at any time for a player to take everything I had.
Never happened but I knew it could and was always ready for it.
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People are who they really are when they think there're no consequences for their actions, positive or negative. I don't care how people "act", irl people play roles to get by, just cuz they're sugary sweet to your face or to others doesn't mean their actualy nice on the inside. You wanna know who someone is? Watch them when they think it doesn't count...like in an mmorpg.
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
Well, all definitions are known to be not sufficient. I was definitely taking about PKers-skull-hunters, griefers, any MMO players that enjoy “to ruin somelses game” , "see you dieing".
The cliché argument “It’s a game” does not work for me. Where is you as human being? You are playing not alone, there are other players (humans) with different game interests, preferences. Technically it is "allowed"/possible to rob your neighbor, but you are not doing that because of your internal moral principals or just being scared to be punished by law. There is no police in the games, penalties are often minor or absent. Social matureness foresees an ability to reflect, predict the reaction of another person (“respect others as persons”), to take full responsibility for your actions.
Aggressiveness, intolerance are known to be signs of weakness: a really strong person has no need to demonstrate his strength in order to convince himself and others that he is strong, he is simply strong.
“Play another game.” It was mentioned that there were really few “clones” available now. It is not an easy task to find a suitable for your taste MMO (genre, graphic, UI, business scheme, available PvE server etc.). So, “carebears” start to complain on PvP games’ forums.
Any rule has exceptions. So, I do not think that every PKer-griefer is a bad person in RL. But I do not understand/support this dualism of behavior modes: kind helpful person in reality and jerk in virtual world.
Moreover, I was mainly addressing this problem to playing kids and badly socially educated individuals (age or PhD degree are not sufficient to become a human).
However, my main interest was game design. We are spending long hours playing MMOs creating, developing our characters-avatars. Maybe, they (our PCs) are also playing with us, creating us? IMO game developers, community in general should serously analyze what social impact MMOs might have. I believe that this serous Forum is a right place.
Of course there are some PKs that are nice in RL, but thats because they have to be. These PKs take out thier supressed anger on people that cant really fight back. They lack the courage or mental apptitude to stand up for themselve in RL so they do it in a virtual one where there are no consequenses.
Well, all definitions are known to be not sufficient. I was definitely taking about PKers-skull-hunters, griefers, any MMO players that enjoy “to ruin somelses game”.
The cliché argument “It’s a game” does not work for me: you are playing not alone, there are other players (humans) with different game interests, preferences. Technically you can rob your neighbor, but you are not doing that because of your internal moral principals or just being scared to be punished by law. There is no police in the games, penalties are often minor or absent. Social matureness foresees an ability to reflect, predict the reaction of another person (“respect others as persons”), full responsibility for your actions.
Aggressiveness, intolerance are known to be signs of weakness: a really strong person has no need to demonstrate his strength in order to convince himself and others that he is strong, he is simply strong.
“Play another game.” I was mentioned that there were really few “clones” available now. It is not an easy task to find a suitable for your taste MMO (genre, graphic, UI, business scheme, etc.). So, “carebears” start to complain on PvP games’ forums.
Any rule has exceptions. So, I do not think that every PKer-griefer is a bad person in RL. But I do not understand/support this dualism of behavior modes: kind helpful person in reality and jerk in virtual world.
Moreover, I was mainly addressing this problem to kids and badly socially educated individuals (PhD degrees are not sufficient to become a human).
However, my main interest was game design. We are spending long hours playing MMOs creating, developing our characters-avatars. Maybe, they (our PCs) are also playing with us, creating us? IMO game developers, community in general should serously analyze what social impact that MMOs might have. I believe that this serous Forum is a right place.
This is what media does which is why tv shows are called "programs"
Well, all definitions are known to be not sufficient. I was definitely taking about PKers-skull-hunters, griefers, any MMO players that enjoy “to ruin somelses game”.
The cliché argument “It’s a game” does not work for me: you are playing not alone, there are other players (humans) with different game interests, preferences. Technically you can rob your neighbor, but you are not doing that because of your internal moral principals or just being scared to be punished by law. There is no police in the games, penalties are often minor or absent. Social matureness foresees an ability to reflect, predict the reaction of another person (“respect others as persons”), full responsibility for your actions.
Aggressiveness, intolerance are known to be signs of weakness: a really strong person has no need to demonstrate his strength in order to convince himself and others that he is strong, he is simply strong.
“Play another game.” I was mentioned that there were really few “clones” available now. It is not an easy task to find a suitable for your taste MMO (genre, graphic, UI, business scheme, etc.). So, “carebears” start to complain on PvP games’ forums.
Any rule has exceptions. So, I do not think that every PKer-griefer is a bad person in RL. But I do not understand/support this dualism of behavior modes: kind helpful person in reality and jerk in virtual world.
Moreover, I was mainly addressing this problem to kids and badly socially educated individuals (PhD degrees are not sufficient to become a human).
However, my main interest was game design. We are spending long hours playing MMOs creating, developing our characters-avatars. Maybe, they (our PCs) are also playing with us, creating us? IMO game developers, community in general should serously analyze what social impact that MMOs might have. I believe that this serous Forum is a right place.
I think you maybe onto something here with your comment about the online experience shaping someones social development. In the past we developed through face to face interactions with other people because there was no other choice. Now however we have a means to circumvent a tried and true method. Perhaps inadvertantly weve given birth to a mutation in how humans develop socially.
Of course there are some PKs that are nice in RL, but thats because they have to be. These PKs take out thier supressed anger on people that cant really fight back. They lack the courage or mental apptitude to stand up for themselve in RL so they do it in a virtual one where there are no consequenses.
You ever play a game like Modern Warfare? People battle virtual avatars for the challenge and the thrill of the hunt in MMOs and every other video game genre. Not everyone can be a knight in shining armor in MMOs. Someone has to be the cops, someone has to be the robbers. And if everyone realizes that it's just a game, and everyone is put on an even playing field, I don't see how ganking is a reflection of someone's personality.
You ever play a game like Modern Warfare? People battle virtual avatars for the challenge and the thrill of the hunt in MMOs and every other video game genre. Not everyone can be a knight in shining armor in MMOs. Someone has to be the cops, someone has to be the robbers. And if everyone realizes that it's just a game, and everyone is put on an even playing field, I don't see how ganking is a reflection of someone's personality.
To me the question is, are these acts commited in a virtual world an extension of the player, or are these acts actually shaping the player on some sublime level?
You ever play a game like Modern Warfare? People battle virtual avatars for the challenge and the thrill of the hunt in MMOs and every other video game genre. Not everyone can be a knight in shining armor in MMOs. Someone has to be the cops, someone has to be the robbers. And if everyone realizes that it's just a game, and everyone is put on an even playing field, I don't see how ganking is a reflection of someone's personality.
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean there is nothing to be seen. MW2 is generally an even playing field in which EVERYONE is there to fight at the time you are playing, there is no downtime except while the rounds are over. Totally different from ganking some noob mining resources.
Comments
You must have been living under a rock because its been that way for a long time even before UO.
If you sign onto an MMORPG that has very loose reigns on PvP, or onto a MMORPG server that has looser rules specifically for PvP, then you should already know what you're going into.
There's of course games that have on a single server a mix of PvE-centric and PvP-centric areas. If you go into a PvP zone, you better have your A-Game on. This really matters to the mostly PvE players that consider going into a PvP zone due to certain game enticements / rewards. And they usually provide a warning before you enter such a zone.
Again, don't complain of PvP mechanics if you're signed up for a game that specifically caters to that. Just as PvE players flock to a PvE type of game, PvPers will flock to games with worthwhile PvP mechanics.
The phrase, "You signed the dotted line" comes readily to mind.
And yes, PKer's can be nice people IRL. Some people play their RL personality in games. Some don't.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I’m surprised so many people on this website have degrees in psychology. Where you can psycho analyze a person’s emotional state just by how they act in an online game. The fact is that anybody can be a PKer. It doesn’t take any special type of person to do it. It doesn’t take some guy who is mad at world and generally an “A” hole. People all have different play styles but that mean they are different from you and me. A PKer can just be a person that love the thrill of pvp and wants to get it whenever they can.
When I first started playing UO back in 98, I loved pvp. I used to PK as well although after I PKed a someone I would usually rez them. I was doing it just so they would put a bounty on my head and I could make the bounty list in town.
I don’t think that Pkers in general are jerks. I just think that’s the aspect of a game that they enjoy. There are some that are genuine jerks but you will never know this until you actual talk to them. I know someone will come out with “Actions are louder than words!” or something to that extent. But let’s face the action isn’t real. It’s still just a game but in an online world communication is about as real as it can get. That’s just my 2 cents though.
this is a funny video. I wonder if PvPers are the ones coming from the console genre
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCYPGnJdO1U
Well, lets take alook at this from a couple different viewpoints.
Exibit A ) 15 year old Danny is a nerd. He gets picked on at school because he's... well.. a stereotypical nerd. Think about that for a moment. every day at school he encounters this one jock at school that picks on him mercilessly. Obviously Danny starts to harbor some resentment towards this jock. This happens everyday in schools around the world. now... Danny like playing computer games, specifically mmo's. He see's a way to vent his anger he has at the jock in a safe and harmless enviroment, so he picks up a copy of DFO, UO, whatever full on pvp game you want to consider and he goes to "work". He ganks people, loots all their stuff etc. HE's not, in fact, a bad person. He's just wisely choosing a safe and controlled way to vent his frustration at not being able to do anything about the jock picking on him. its how he gets through the day. Sure, he could go to a teacher, or the principle or even his parents, but anyone that knows someone who's done that knows the consequences. All doing that does, is get said jock in a small amount of trouble for a short time, and during that time, the jocks friends take over for where the jock left off. it gets worse and worse. Yes you can say, that's just life. But there is no denying that humans are instinctually competative. It is our will to survive. Danny is choosing to survive highschool not by lashing out, not by hurting anyone, but by releasing his frustrations out online in a game where he is hurting zero people.
Exibit
Sharon is a 43 year old stay at home mom. She has two children who are in school, and a husband that works to support his family. She loves her family and has a relatively happy marriage. During the day while no one is home, she plays mmo's because she has friends on there. When she first started playing she had no clue what she was doing and ended up getting ganked quite a few times. Instead of sitting there whining about it, or leaving the friends she had made in game, she took matters into her own hands and learned how to deal with getting ganked. She doesn't kill people randomly for the most part, but she does gank members of the opposite faction anytime she see's them. She has gotten very good at this. Every once in a while she'll even let out a girlish giggle as she ganks someone herself. she's come to enjoy doing this. Does this make her a bad person? not really. She knows it's more of an escape from reality then anything else. She does have her own moral code, she grounded her son last weekend when she found out he's been smoking at the age of 14.
Exibit C ) meet Chuck. Chuck is a 35 year old who grew up in a household that hunted. He's bagged deer, moose, and even a bear once. His dad was your stereotypical 70's father. A bit of a hardass and stuck in his ways, but a pretty good guy. Chuck has become quite a bit like his dad in certain ways. He likes the thrill of the hunt. A friend introduced him to games where he can get that same thrill of the hunt while not being up at 5:30 in the morning sitting in a blind waiting with a set of antler to clack together with the smell of deer piss nearby. He hunts players online, he doesn't care about looting anything except as a trophy. He doesn't taunt those he kills, just being content to add another notch to his belt so to speak. He holds down a job and actually helps with the local soup kitchen at times.
Exibit D) meet brad. He's in his early 20's and grew up enjoying the benefits of a faceless community. HE grew up with the internet. He comes from a background of more fps style games and enjoys taunting those he kills. their anger and outbursts from being killed makes him smile, and laugh, and feel a little bit better about himself. HE didn't come from a broken home, but the online world raised him more then his parents did. While they worked most of the time, he would sit there playing games online. He learned the term "u got pwned" at a very early age. His parents felt that at least playign computer games was better then doing drugs, so they just let him be. He talks smack with every kill, whines when he gets beat himself and looks for revenge. He takes it past the game too, lurking on forums and making smart assed remarks against those that he's killed or bitches in threads of people that have killed him.
Now, i personally have met each one of these type of gamers that enjoy pvp. Personally, i'm not the hugest fan of pvp, but that is because i kinda suck at it. The point of this is simply that you don't know who the person is behind the other side of the screen. it could be a housewife, it could be a guy who enjoys hunting. ANYBODY could be someone that enjoys killing other people online. Hell, the local pastor at the church down the road could of been that lvl 80 orc that came along and ganked you in hyjal the other day. The point is, you never know. When most pk'ers come across someone, they arn't seeing it as a personal attack against you. That's the problem most people that get ganked have. They make it personal... it ISN'T. Unless you have gone out of your way to piss someone off, the attack against you isn't personal at all. Whether killing you makes the person feel better about themself, or satisfaction for being on the ganker end instead of the gankee end, it doesn't matter.
What matters is what you can do to protect yourself. Firstly, don't take it personally and get bent out of shape. Yes, you might have ended up losing that awesome +5 sword you just got if the game you are playing has looting abilities in pvp, but is it worth it to stamp your feet and act like a petulent child? i don't think so.
You have a few different options, one is the "bigger bully" method. Join up with a group of people that are better fighters then yourself. They come at you with a big stick, simply get your buddies with a bigger stick to go after them to chase them off. another is to learn to protect yourself. Take a look at how you have your character, and adjust things accordingly. it may not be the specific style you want to play, but you need to learn to compromise with it. If you suck at fighting back like me, learn to be sneakier. if the game has a hide ability to it, learn to make it your best friend. Don't randomly wander into an area you are unsure if there is a aganker in. That, or learn to run when you see a ganker coming. keep your eyes peeled, look around constantly. a large part of how a ganker gets his kills is from surprise. They jump you and do most of their damage before you realize what's going on. I've known some gankers to leave someone alone because they were ready for the fight. Bitching will get you nowhere in the long run, so quit doing it. all it does is annoy everyone around you and makes the person gankign you (depending who they are behind the computer) feel smug, or laugh, etc. whining doesn't help your situation. Actively pushing forward to better your situation does.
yes i've gone off topic, but at the core of it all i've remained true to my point. YOU don't know the person on the other end of the fight. they may be a priest, or a kid in highschool, or a housewife. Just because they ganked you, doesn't make them a bad person. Remember, these are just games and they are not real. I would rather 15yo Danny vent his frustrations in a game then let them build up to the point they do somethign crazy to people in RL. Danny isn't a bad kid, he's just frustrated. Sharon isn't a bad woman, she's just havign a little fun with pixels. Chuck isn't a bad guy, he just prefers to do his hunting a little warmer then normal. You never know.
You cannot generalize people by an act in game where everyone is faceless.
Honestly, if you really want to ignore the definiton and links above fine. If you want to go back further, we can go back to the PK MUDs:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MUD#Player_versus_player_MUDs
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Ok, i understand your point. My friend is just like brad, but he is 16 years old. Is he a bad person, he stays away from drugs and beer, does his chores, and is nice to random people. Is he a bad person? Where is the line between the game and real life, where is the line between being a dick and being a bad person? Say someone is nice to people but is a pedo, he is a bad person, but not a dick. A bad person who be like a criminal, a person who will kill you, or breaks rules just to break them all the time. A dick s someone who is mean, but not bad. He might donate to charity, or help the elderly. He might also make fun of you, but to him he is messing with you and isn't tring to "hurt" you. So is killing someone online and being a dick about it is being a bad person?
In a word NO.
There has to be something wrong with you if your idea of fun is to ruin somelses game..
Top 3 MMO's PRE-CU SWG GW1 GW2
Worst 2 wow and Lotro Under standing stones it went woke
I would say "true".
However, I would also say that if people sign into thse games because they know how they play then there is no "ruining" of anyone's game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's a game. It has nothing to do with real life. If you roll a toon on a pvp server or play in a game that advertises pvp, you should expect that it will happen. The problem is, people don't see the enemy as another person , but more like a big red target that needs to be taken out. You are just pixels on the screen.
It's like saying a soccer player is a bad person for scoring a goal. lol
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I think many people who do PK have some sort of RL issues. Even if they're taking virtual property or ending another's virtual life, the fact that they get some sort of real pleasure out of it and don't care about the victim shows they have some issues.
The fact is, they are preying on other people without any kind of empathy and it gives them pleasure. Twisted? You decide.
Also, I don't think how a person acts in real life is really any indication of how stable they are. There are serial killers that can appear to be the nicest person in the world.
OMG...
The game gives you abilities to use against your enemy. So if you use them , then all of a sudden that makes you the same as a serial killer?
Maybe there is something wrong with the people that are saying stuff like this?
PVP is a large part of most games, and the only reason some people even play them. It is like a sport for some. It is competitive in nature. It's like playing mortal kombat with your friend and then crying on the forums because you got killed.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Your reading comprehension isn't very good. I wasn't saying PKing makes you the same as a serial killer, I was saying taking pleasure at another's misfortune isn't a sign of a healthy individual.
Everyone who isn't some kind of psychotic or abusive person is nice to the people they like.
The real measure of non-crazy people is how they treat people they do not like or people they disagree with.
Everyone thinks of themselves as nice. Everyone thinks their friends are nice. Only about 40% of the time is it true.
The millenials have painted their existence on a cold, compassionless plastic canvas that we know as the internet.
I think theres a certain level of dehumanizing being experienced by todays youth. Action without consequence can be a dangerous thing. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out 20 to 30 years from now.
I expect this generation will be a case study revisited countless times in the future.
I would agree there is an interesting "something" happening because of the internet and how people socialize because of it.
But again, if I make a game where you can be ganked I expect the players who buy the game to understand this and be on board with it.
Let's put it this way, I can't play EVE because I just don't have the time and patience to recover from losing my stuff. But I would never in a million years blame the most experienced EVE player from ganking me and taking my stuff. Or even "podding" me (is that still in the game?)
I don't understand why people don't take responsibility for their gaming and only play games where they are on board with the penalties?
I went into Dark Fall (which is a pretty good game besides some of its issues) and I went out knowing full well I was going to be ganked. I went a'skippin' down the road ready at any time for a player to take everything I had.
Never happened but I knew it could and was always ready for it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
People are who they really are when they think there're no consequences for their actions, positive or negative. I don't care how people "act", irl people play roles to get by, just cuz they're sugary sweet to your face or to others doesn't mean their actualy nice on the inside. You wanna know who someone is? Watch them when they think it doesn't count...like in an mmorpg.
"Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."
Oscar Wilde
Well, all definitions are known to be not sufficient. I was definitely taking about PKers-skull-hunters, griefers, any MMO players that enjoy “to ruin somelses game” , "see you dieing".
The cliché argument “It’s a game” does not work for me. Where is you as human being? You are playing not alone, there are other players (humans) with different game interests, preferences. Technically it is "allowed"/possible to rob your neighbor, but you are not doing that because of your internal moral principals or just being scared to be punished by law. There is no police in the games, penalties are often minor or absent. Social matureness foresees an ability to reflect, predict the reaction of another person (“respect others as persons”), to take full responsibility for your actions.
Aggressiveness, intolerance are known to be signs of weakness: a really strong person has no need to demonstrate his strength in order to convince himself and others that he is strong, he is simply strong.
“Play another game.” It was mentioned that there were really few “clones” available now. It is not an easy task to find a suitable for your taste MMO (genre, graphic, UI, business scheme, available PvE server etc.). So, “carebears” start to complain on PvP games’ forums.
Any rule has exceptions. So, I do not think that every PKer-griefer is a bad person in RL. But I do not understand/support this dualism of behavior modes: kind helpful person in reality and jerk in virtual world.
Moreover, I was mainly addressing this problem to playing kids and badly socially educated individuals (age or PhD degree are not sufficient to become a human).
However, my main interest was game design. We are spending long hours playing MMOs creating, developing our characters-avatars. Maybe, they (our PCs) are also playing with us, creating us? IMO game developers, community in general should serously analyze what social impact MMOs might have. I believe that this serous Forum is a right place.
Of course there are some PKs that are nice in RL, but thats because they have to be. These PKs take out thier supressed anger on people that cant really fight back. They lack the courage or mental apptitude to stand up for themselve in RL so they do it in a virtual one where there are no consequenses.
This is what media does which is why tv shows are called "programs"
Your thoughts are not your own...
I think you maybe onto something here with your comment about the online experience shaping someones social development. In the past we developed through face to face interactions with other people because there was no other choice. Now however we have a means to circumvent a tried and true method. Perhaps inadvertantly weve given birth to a mutation in how humans develop socially.
Exactly!
/Applause
You ever play a game like Modern Warfare? People battle virtual avatars for the challenge and the thrill of the hunt in MMOs and every other video game genre. Not everyone can be a knight in shining armor in MMOs. Someone has to be the cops, someone has to be the robbers. And if everyone realizes that it's just a game, and everyone is put on an even playing field, I don't see how ganking is a reflection of someone's personality.
To me the question is, are these acts commited in a virtual world an extension of the player, or are these acts actually shaping the player on some sublime level?
Just because you don't see it doesn't mean there is nothing to be seen. MW2 is generally an even playing field in which EVERYONE is there to fight at the time you are playing, there is no downtime except while the rounds are over. Totally different from ganking some noob mining resources.