This is embarassing and why there are so many so called educated people who seem barely able to tie their shoolaces or conceive of things outside of what their professors or their tv tells them. I've seen more idiots come out of some of these supposed institutions of higher learning than I can stand and the concept that a behaviour that does not appear in a book means it somehow does not exist, or even if it does, is some how not a form of pathology is unbelievably crazy to me.
We're having a discussion about whether a man's death was caused by an addiction to a game. Central to this discussion is the definition of the word "addiction". Your contempt for idiots with college degrees is way off-topic.
JUST because something is not in the DSM YET (tho I know therapists who have diagnosed individuals as having a "virtual addiction") doesn't mean it does not exist. Consensus by the panel of middle aged to senior citizen therapists on whether a virtual addiction should be listed as a disorder, a disturbance or what have you could take a long time to reach, if at all.
Therapists? The DSM is put together from numerous sources of data, field testing, and published literature. It's not like they mail a survey out to every "life coach" with a comfy sofa and a box of tissues.
BESIDES the friggin DSM 4 was published in 1994 and its latest revision was more than 10 years ago! How much different is the the world and its immersion into virtual reality since then??? Think for yourself, poindexter (Disdena). Unbelievable. This is what these svengalis want, blind faith. My gosh, its is just the opinion human beings with personal agendas and a host of conflict of interest issues, and believe me, there is no true consensus on its contents.
What are you trying to say? This controversy you're relating is about reclassification to create new disorders, leading to false positive diagnoses. "False positive diagnosis" means that the patient is diagnosed as having a disorder when they actually do not. For example, if you diagnosed the patient as suffering from an addiction (to, I dunno, video games perhaps?) but in reality they do not have an addiction. That's the danger they're talking about. They're saying that the DSM-5 is going too far in creating new disorders. This paragraph you've posted is one that attacks your own standpoint.
And the kicker is, video game addiction isn't even on the discussion table for DSM-5. There are plenty of discussions about whether or not this or that classification is too progressive and unproven, and that's long before they even get all the way out to nonsense like video game addiction. It's an invention of the media and the alarmists, with no grounding in science.
You do definately have a propensity for missing the point. The last paragraph was posted to establish the fact the DSM is still just human opinion as to what will or will not be in it. You also seem to glance over the issue of the ignorance of these people as far as what these virtual worlds even are as well as the 10 year period without a revision, that just so happens to coincide with this current boom in the virtual space.Never you mind deary, I have worked with too many people like you, (I have a degree in psyche, for what thats worth) but I'm a hard science and evidence guy, and I've researched who many of these so called experts are and what they're about from Adler to Zimbardo, just people with opinion, mostly quacks with fraudulent so called facts, but you may continue to follow your blind faith, but if you expect people to somehow attribute credibility to you because you wave around some jpeg of the dsm online, and evade arguments that would clearly make the absence of any mention of a phenomenon you yourself say they have not looked at the data for, which itself was collected during the last decade or so and therefore could NOT be included in the text, whether real or imagined, as criterion for discounting its existence, think again. Nick Yee has researched online games for the last decade plus, y'know the same decade the dsm hasn't been revised in, and here are his thoughts on what he acknowledges is a real problem for some gamers, but to him the bigger problem is the more obtuse worker bee psychologists who only know what their book tells them not understanding what seems patently obvious, virtual addiction exists. Even by looking at the text book symptoms of addiction its patently OBVIOUS, but because of the status quo not understanding what seems clear he wants to seek another term that will be more easily accepted.
I'm just glad the term "addiction" is being phased out of medical literature as it is a term that has lost all meaning. You could be talking about substance abuse, chemical dependance, sex, gambling...
It is much better IMO to define them by the locus of control: a receptor problem, or an abuse problem as this gives information about the treatment.
Internet, gambling... these are abuse problems and can be treated with 12 steps, or reduction strategies.
Drugs, nicotene, alcohol these are recepter regulation problems and can be treated with 12 steps but must have abstinence.
Venge
and no you cannot say with credibility that people are addicted to the chemical endorphine effect they get (the rush) from gambling... there have been dozens of studes done to show that is not the case. There has never been any study done that showed the opioid receptors were disregulating and necessitating a higher level of endorphin in order to cause the needed stimulus, actually they have shown the reverse, the receptors were functioning normally.
I prefer to go by the evidence.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
My question is, why did he spend so much money playing at a game annex instead of buying his own computer and playing at home?
My second question is, why did the game annex allow him to play for 3 days stright without maybe suggesting to him that he should go home or sleep?
My third question is that why wasn't he hitting on those cute chinese girls in the picture instead of playing the mmo? Maybe I need to go to china and play mmos at their game annex, find me a nice cute chinese girl, bring her back to America.
Ok, jokes aside, it is rather sad he died, but like it has been said before, people die from stupid things all the time, but it hits more to home when one of your own dies.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
You do definately have a propensity for missing the point. The last paragraph was posted to establish the fact the DSM is still just human opinion as to what will or will not be in it. You also seem to glance over the issue of the ignorance of these people as far as what these virtual worlds even are as well as the 10 year period without a revision, that just so happens to coincide with this current boom in the virtual space.Never you mind deary, I have worked with too many people like you, (I have a degree in psyche, for what thats worth) but I'm a hard science and evidence guy, and I've researched who many of these so called experts are and what they're about from Adler to Zimbardo, just people with opinion, mostly quacks with fraudulent so called facts, but you may continue to follow your blind faith, but if you expect people to somehow attribute credibility to you because you wave around some jpeg of the dsm online, and evade arguments that would clearly make the absence of any mention of a phenomenon you yourself say they have not looked at the data for, which itself was collected during the last decade or so and therefore could NOT be included in the text, whether real or imagined, as criterion for discounting its existence, think again. Nick Yee has researched online games for the last decade plus, y'know the same decade the dsm hasn't been revised in, and here are his thoughts on what he acknowledges is a real problem for some gamers, but to him the bigger problem is the more obtuse worker bee psychologists who only know what their book tells them not understanding what seems patently obvious, virtual addiction exists. Even by looking at the text book symptoms of addiction its patently OBVIOUS, but because of the status quo not understanding what seems clear he wants to seek another term that will be more easily accepted.
...but honestly, whatever. Feel free to aggrandize yourself in your own eyes and waste people's time.
Bon suare
"I believe that games can be defined as addictive because I am familiar with Nick Yee's years of research supporting that point of view." <-- That is an actual informed opinion and whether I agree with it or not, I respect someone who takes up that position.
I just don't have any respect for people who came by here saying "I believe that games can be defined as addictive because people write self-help books about it" or "because organized psychiatry has been wrong therefore nothing they come up with is correct" or "because like duhhhh! Of course they're addictive! Common sense!"
This doesnt make any sense at all. In fact I would say this is retarded reporting. If you belieeve he died from gaming, you are in fact retarded. The human body can easilly go 3 days without food. The human brain will get rest one way or the other after 3 days.
The man died from somethign besides lack of food or sleep. Perhaps he was diabetic. He did not die from just staying up and not eating.
Nobody can die from playing a game for 3 days straight. There could of been something wrong with him before. And like you said, you can eat without food for a week. Proven fact. So, i agree to you.
Wouldn't the reporter state that he wrote that the guy died after three days of gaming and not because of three days of gaming.There is a big difference in the two statements, how we as the reader interprets them is a different matter. For all we know the guy died of a blood clot because he was sitting imobile for too long or he choked and lost consciousness because he was trying to munch a chicken wing while in an intense boss fight.
Isn't it incredible how simple constructive wording can create so many stories and inspire so much emotion with very little information whatsoever. The only facts stated were that he was Chinese and that he lost consciousness and later died. As the reporter wasn't there he does not know how much the person really ate or drank nor how he died, these are just suppositions.
This doesnt make any sense at all. In fact I would say this is retarded reporting. If you belieeve he died from gaming, you are in fact retarded. The human body can easilly go 3 days without food. The human brain will get rest one way or the other after 3 days.
The man died from somethign besides lack of food or sleep. Perhaps he was diabetic. He did not die from just staying up and not eating.
Go without food for three days, yes. Do it easily, hell no. The body isn't meant to endure that, it just can usually. And if he wasn't eating, he likely wan't drinking either, and dehyrdration seriously beats the body up. As for gaming killing him, no, it didn't. Addiction, his stupidity, and the stupidity of the owners of the internet cafe killed him. He could have been using meth, or coke, or drinking. He should have stopped playing, and the people at the cafe should have shut down his session when he didn't. End of story.
Well, you can't say that. If he sat still for 3 days straight and neglected himself, the cause was gaming.
No, the cause was addiction, not gaming. An addict will do almost anything for what they crave, and if they have an unlimited supply of it they will overdose, period. He pushed himself too far because the pleasure centers of his brain were locked in an stimulus feed-back loop. What's sad about this is not that this was done playing a game, it's that he had an addiction and it killed him. It doesn't matter what he was addicted to.
This doesnt make any sense at all. In fact I would say this is retarded reporting. If you belieeve he died from gaming, you are in fact retarded. The human body can easilly go 3 days without food. The human brain will get rest one way or the other after 3 days.
The man died from somethign besides lack of food or sleep. Perhaps he was diabetic. He did not die from just staying up and not eating.
QFT. Anyone who has had a modicum of military training knows 3 days with no food or sleep isnt fun, but hardly fatal.
Don't know what crazy military you people go to, but I asked my nephew who is in the military here in Belgium and they never put soldiers through training without food for 3 days.
Doctors who actually studied people "addicted" to online games found not a single case were the game itself was the cause for the "addiction".
Its always reallife issues. Your life sucks, you have trouble finding friends, family is hell, you are in school stress ... the game itself is only your escape, but in itself it has zero addiction potential.
You simply cant get addicted to an online game, just like you cannot get addicted to, for example, chess, or football.
Euh?!
This most be the most ignorant post in history.
The doctors you are talking about ... where did they get their phd ... in SpringField?
He is correct, you do not know the clinical term for addiction. There is no evidence, period, you can be addicted to a video game.
Doctors who actually studied people "addicted" to online games found not a single case were the game itself was the cause for the "addiction".
Its always reallife issues. Your life sucks, you have trouble finding friends, family is hell, you are in school stress ... the game itself is only your escape, but in itself it has zero addiction potential.
You simply cant get addicted to an online game, just like you cannot get addicted to, for example, chess, or football.
Rofl, sorry to break this to you bud, but you can get addicted to ANYTHING.
Really, ANYTHING, the addiction doesnt have to have anything to do with the object the person is addicted to, but that doesnt change teh fact that they are addicted to it.
"–noun
the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma."
He's speaking of a technical term, you're using it in the layman's realm. Technically, he is 100% correct.
Doctors who actually studied people "addicted" to online games found not a single case were the game itself was the cause for the "addiction".
Its always reallife issues. Your life sucks, you have trouble finding friends, family is hell, you are in school stress ... the game itself is only your escape, but in itself it has zero addiction potential.
You simply cant get addicted to an online game, just like you cannot get addicted to, for example, chess, or football.
Euh?!
This most be the most ignorant post in history.
The doctors you are talking about ... where did they get their phd ... in SpringField?
He is correct, you do not know the clinical term for addiction. There is no evidence, period, you can be addicted to a video game.
The evidence is in a cascet in China right now.
This is not the first time this has happened. This is like the 10th time.
Well, you can't say that. If he sat still for 3 days straight and neglected himself, the cause was gaming.
No, the cause was addiction, not gaming.
That is nitpicking. It is like saying the cause he died from lung cancer wasn't sigarets.
The game made him play for 3 days, if that's why he died, then the cause was excessive gaming.
The game didn't make him do shit. The developer's didn't come to that cafe and strap him to the chair while putting toothpicks in his eyes to keep them open. The game didn't tell him "If you leave, I'll kill you!!". He was an adult, supposedly one with a semi-functioning brain. He made the choice to sit there for three days. He made the choice whether or not to eat or drink or sleep.
He was a friggin' moron, and selectively removed his own sad carcass from the gene pool. Plain and simple.
Oh, and since you keep harping on "cigarrettes" ( that's how you spell it by the way ), I've got another news flash for you. I smoke. I buy my cigarettes, I open the packs, I pull them out, I smoke them. The tobacco company isn't forcing me to do it. Sure, there's chemicals added to make me not want to quit, but it's my ultimate choice of whether I do or not. It's my decision, not the tobacco company's or anyone else'.
I have also played marathon gaming sessions of multiple days. Gues what? I'm still alive. Know why? Because I have the common fucking sense to have plenty of food and drink handy. But if people like you have their way, I'll have to have a fucking hall monitor standing over my shoulder telling me when and if i can do what I want when i want.
People like yourself throwing labels like "addiction" around for everything you deem as "not normal" are one of the reasons we have more and more stupid laws and "regulations" every day and more and more highly paid "professionals" to shove their opinions as fact down our throats every day.
Originally posted by bastionixThe evidence is in a cascet in China right now.
This is not the first time this has happened. This is like the 10th time.
Out of how many of hundreds of millions of gamers worldwide? Your statistic is laughable and would be something like .0000000000000000000000000001% of all gamers die. Yeah, let's bust out the funding and stop this scourge against humanity now.
Doctors who actually studied people "addicted" to online games found not a single case were the game itself was the cause for the "addiction".
Its always reallife issues. Your life sucks, you have trouble finding friends, family is hell, you are in school stress ... the game itself is only your escape, but in itself it has zero addiction potential.
You simply cant get addicted to an online game, just like you cannot get addicted to, for example, chess, or football.
Euh?!
This most be the most ignorant post in history.
The doctors you are talking about ... where did they get their phd ... in SpringField?
He is correct, you do not know the clinical term for addiction. There is no evidence, period, you can be addicted to a video game.
The evidence is in a cascet in China right now.
This is not the first time this has happened. This is like the 10th time.
No, this is not addiction. You want to apply the term to it because you think common sense dictates you can be addicted to a drug, why not other stimuli. Common sense does not dictate science, in fact it's often wrong and only provides excuse for further entrenchment of ignorance. Did the guy have problems, yes, was it a clinical addiction, no, the factors for addiction do not exist. No matter how much you want a word to mean somethng else it doesn't make it so. No one is saying the guy doesn't have issues, but at this point it's like saying he died from a 3,272 point crit while playing Super Power Up Hero Fantasy Online: XXIV.
Well, you can't say that. If he sat still for 3 days straight and neglected himself, the cause was gaming.
No, the cause was addiction, not gaming.
That is nitpicking. It is like saying the cause he died from lung cancer wasn't sigarets.
The game made him play for 3 days, if that's why he died, then the cause was excessive gaming.
The game didn't make him do shit. The developer's didn't come to that cafe and strap him to the chair while putting toothpicks in his eyes to keep them open. The game didn't tell him "If you leave, I'll kill you!!". He was an adult, supposedly one with a semi-functioning brain. He made the choice to sit there for three dats. He made the choice whether or not to eat or drink or sleep.
He was a friggin' moron, and selectively removed his sad carcass from the gene pool. Plain and simple.
Oh, and since you keep harping on "cigarrettes" ( that's how you spell it by the way ), I've got another news flash for you. I smoke. I buy my cigarettes, I open the packs, I pull them out, I smoke them. The tobacco company isn't forcing me to do it. Sure, there's chemicals added to make me not want to quit, but it's my ultimate choice of whether I do or not. It's my decision, not the tobacco company's or anyone else'.
I have also played marathon gaming sessions of multiple days. Gues what? I'm still alive. Know why? Becuase I have the common fucking sense to have plenty of food and drink handy. But if people like you have their way, I'll have to have a fucking hall monitor standing over my shoulder telling me when and if i can do what I want when i want.
People like yourself throwing labels like "addiction" around for everything you deem as "not normal" are one of the reasons we have more and more stupid laws and "regulations" every day and more and more highly paid "professionals" to shove their opinions as fact down our throats every day.
The game did a lot of things you don't realise.
MMO uses conditioning based on skinner boxes. That's something normal games do not use.
They also randomise as much as possible, because according to the principles, random events make you want to do them. Events where you know the outcome don't.
So yes, the game made him do things he would have otherwise not done.
That is the whole issue here.
If he was playing another game that didn't use this design, would he have played for 3 days straight? The answer is no.
Originally posted by bastionixThe evidence is in a cascet in China right now.
This is not the first time this has happened. This is like the 10th time.
Out of how many of hundreds of millions of gamers worldwide? Your statistic is laughable and would be something like .00000000000000001% of all gamers die. Yeah, let's bust out the funding and stop this scourge against humanity now.
So how come all those "random deaths" are people playing MMO each and every time?
This doesn't happen with your average game. These deaths started with MMO.
We didn't have people playing tetris for 3 days straight.
Well, you can't say that. If he sat still for 3 days straight and neglected himself, the cause was gaming.
No, the cause was addiction, not gaming.
That is nitpicking. It is like saying the cause he died from lung cancer wasn't sigarets.
The game made him play for 3 days, if that's why he died, then the cause was excessive gaming.
It is time people admit that MMO are highly addictive, much more so than regular games.
Someone plays 3 days straight without sleep, that is insane, even gamblers aren't that bad.
This will happen again, are you going to say MMO are not the cause when they find another person dead behind their PC next time too?
As someone who is a social worker at a psychiatric hospital and works with addicts daily no, it is not nit-picking, it's called clinical expertise. And yes, gamblers are that bad and have died the same way. Casinos just don't advertise it, and also don't let gamblers get away with sitting in front of a one-armed bandit for 3 days straight (because it looks bad for business when they die, if nothing else). Addiction is devestating, and it does not matter if the addiction is to gaming, gambling, sex, alcohol, cocaine, or methamphetamine. It destroys lives and kills people, period. The simple truth to addiction is that the substance is almost irrelevant (alcohol and benzodiazepine withdrawal are lethal, everything else you just wish you were dead), it's the addiction that matters. That's why the long-term treatment remains the same for everyone, regardless of their type of addiction. And believe me, MMOs have nothing on booze and meth in terms of how addictive they are.
Well, you can't say that. If he sat still for 3 days straight and neglected himself, the cause was gaming.
No, the cause was addiction, not gaming.
That is nitpicking. It is like saying the cause he died from lung cancer wasn't sigarets.
The game made him play for 3 days, if that's why he died, then the cause was excessive gaming.
The game didn't make him do shit. The developer's didn't come to that cafe and strap him to the chair while putting toothpicks in his eyes to keep them open. The game didn't tell him "If you leave, I'll kill you!!". He was an adult, supposedly one with a semi-functioning brain. He made the choice to sit there for three dats. He made the choice whether or not to eat or drink or sleep.
He was a friggin' moron, and selectively removed his sad carcass from the gene pool. Plain and simple.
Oh, and since you keep harping on "cigarrettes" ( that's how you spell it by the way ), I've got another news flash for you. I smoke. I buy my cigarettes, I open the packs, I pull them out, I smoke them. The tobacco company isn't forcing me to do it. Sure, there's chemicals added to make me not want to quit, but it's my ultimate choice of whether I do or not. It's my decision, not the tobacco company's or anyone else'.
I have also played marathon gaming sessions of multiple days. Gues what? I'm still alive. Know why? Becuase I have the common fucking sense to have plenty of food and drink handy. But if people like you have their way, I'll have to have a fucking hall monitor standing over my shoulder telling me when and if i can do what I want when i want.
People like yourself throwing labels like "addiction" around for everything you deem as "not normal" are one of the reasons we have more and more stupid laws and "regulations" every day and more and more highly paid "professionals" to shove their opinions as fact down our throats every day.
The game did a lot of things you don't realise.
MMO uses conditioning based on skinner boxes. That's something normal games do not use.
They also randomise as much as possible, because according to the principles, random events make you want to do them. Events where you know the outcome don't.
So yes, the game made him do things he would have otherwise not done.
That is the whole issue here.
If he was playing another game that didn't use this design, would he have played for 3 days straight? The answer is no.
Skinner boxes are truly terrifying...if you're a lab rat.
And mmos with random constant random eveents? Where are these magical games, as I think all of us mmo'ers would love to play them.
Again, hundreds of millions of gamers worldwide, tens of millions ( at the least ) playing mmorpgs. Where's the tens of thousands of deaths from exposure to this highly addictive and deviously constructed devil's work?
Well, you can't say that. If he sat still for 3 days straight and neglected himself, the cause was gaming.
No, the cause was addiction, not gaming.
That is nitpicking. It is like saying the cause he died from lung cancer wasn't sigarets.
The game made him play for 3 days, if that's why he died, then the cause was excessive gaming.
The game didn't make him do shit. The developer's didn't come to that cafe and strap him to the chair while putting toothpicks in his eyes to keep them open. The game didn't tell him "If you leave, I'll kill you!!". He was an adult, supposedly one with a semi-functioning brain. He made the choice to sit there for three dats. He made the choice whether or not to eat or drink or sleep.
He was a friggin' moron, and selectively removed his sad carcass from the gene pool. Plain and simple.
Oh, and since you keep harping on "cigarrettes" ( that's how you spell it by the way ), I've got another news flash for you. I smoke. I buy my cigarettes, I open the packs, I pull them out, I smoke them. The tobacco company isn't forcing me to do it. Sure, there's chemicals added to make me not want to quit, but it's my ultimate choice of whether I do or not. It's my decision, not the tobacco company's or anyone else'.
I have also played marathon gaming sessions of multiple days. Gues what? I'm still alive. Know why? Becuase I have the common fucking sense to have plenty of food and drink handy. But if people like you have their way, I'll have to have a fucking hall monitor standing over my shoulder telling me when and if i can do what I want when i want.
People like yourself throwing labels like "addiction" around for everything you deem as "not normal" are one of the reasons we have more and more stupid laws and "regulations" every day and more and more highly paid "professionals" to shove their opinions as fact down our throats every day.
The game did a lot of things you don't realise.
MMO uses conditioning based on skinner boxes. That's something normal games do not use.
They also randomise as much as possible, because according to the principles, random events make you want to do them. Events where you know the outcome don't.
So yes, the game made him do things he would have otherwise not done.
That is the whole issue here.
If he was playing another game that didn't use this design, would he have played for 3 days straight? The answer is no.
Bzzzzzzt wrong, the answer is yes. When someone is addicted to one thing they can not get, they go looking for a substitute that is as close as possible to what they want. They use that until they can obtain what they really want or they decide to give up the addiction.
Well, you can't say that. If he sat still for 3 days straight and neglected himself, the cause was gaming.
No, the cause was addiction, not gaming.
That is nitpicking. It is like saying the cause he died from lung cancer wasn't sigarets.
The game made him play for 3 days, if that's why he died, then the cause was excessive gaming.
The game didn't make him do shit. The developer's didn't come to that cafe and strap him to the chair while putting toothpicks in his eyes to keep them open. The game didn't tell him "If you leave, I'll kill you!!". He was an adult, supposedly one with a semi-functioning brain. He made the choice to sit there for three dats. He made the choice whether or not to eat or drink or sleep.
He was a friggin' moron, and selectively removed his sad carcass from the gene pool. Plain and simple.
Oh, and since you keep harping on "cigarrettes" ( that's how you spell it by the way ), I've got another news flash for you. I smoke. I buy my cigarettes, I open the packs, I pull them out, I smoke them. The tobacco company isn't forcing me to do it. Sure, there's chemicals added to make me not want to quit, but it's my ultimate choice of whether I do or not. It's my decision, not the tobacco company's or anyone else'.
I have also played marathon gaming sessions of multiple days. Gues what? I'm still alive. Know why? Becuase I have the common fucking sense to have plenty of food and drink handy. But if people like you have their way, I'll have to have a fucking hall monitor standing over my shoulder telling me when and if i can do what I want when i want.
People like yourself throwing labels like "addiction" around for everything you deem as "not normal" are one of the reasons we have more and more stupid laws and "regulations" every day and more and more highly paid "professionals" to shove their opinions as fact down our throats every day.
The game did a lot of things you don't realise.
MMO uses conditioning based on skinner boxes. That's something normal games do not use.
They also randomise as much as possible, because according to the principles, random events make you want to do them. Events where you know the outcome don't.
So yes, the game made him do things he would have otherwise not done.
That is the whole issue here.
If he was playing another game that didn't use this design, would he have played for 3 days straight? The answer is no.
Now that's just stupid. Just because they add something in the game doesn't mean he's not capable of taking a break. I mean honestly, when I play a game (and I mean ANY game) I'm able to get up, get a drink, use the restroom, etc.
Like the poster before you said, the game didn't make him do shit. We as people are capable of making our OWN decisions, the game didn't force him to do anything, and it didn't hypnotize him into playing for 3 days straight. He did that out of his own free will, simple as that. It's not the game's fault, it's the man's fault for being such a dumbass and not taking a well needed break.
Comments
You realise you lose any credibility by using that site right.
Collector's editions are scams.
You do definately have a propensity for missing the point. The last paragraph was posted to establish the fact the DSM is still just human opinion as to what will or will not be in it. You also seem to glance over the issue of the ignorance of these people as far as what these virtual worlds even are as well as the 10 year period without a revision, that just so happens to coincide with this current boom in the virtual space.Never you mind deary, I have worked with too many people like you, (I have a degree in psyche, for what thats worth) but I'm a hard science and evidence guy, and I've researched who many of these so called experts are and what they're about from Adler to Zimbardo, just people with opinion, mostly quacks with fraudulent so called facts, but you may continue to follow your blind faith, but if you expect people to somehow attribute credibility to you because you wave around some jpeg of the dsm online, and evade arguments that would clearly make the absence of any mention of a phenomenon you yourself say they have not looked at the data for, which itself was collected during the last decade or so and therefore could NOT be included in the text, whether real or imagined, as criterion for discounting its existence, think again. Nick Yee has researched online games for the last decade plus, y'know the same decade the dsm hasn't been revised in, and here are his thoughts on what he acknowledges is a real problem for some gamers, but to him the bigger problem is the more obtuse worker bee psychologists who only know what their book tells them not understanding what seems patently obvious, virtual addiction exists. Even by looking at the text book symptoms of addiction its patently OBVIOUS, but because of the status quo not understanding what seems clear he wants to seek another term that will be more easily accepted.
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001543.php
...but honestly, whatever. Feel free to aggrandize yourself in your own eyes and waste people's time.
Bon suare
I guess his body wasn't ready
I'm just glad the term "addiction" is being phased out of medical literature as it is a term that has lost all meaning. You could be talking about substance abuse, chemical dependance, sex, gambling...
It is much better IMO to define them by the locus of control: a receptor problem, or an abuse problem as this gives information about the treatment.
Internet, gambling... these are abuse problems and can be treated with 12 steps, or reduction strategies.
Drugs, nicotene, alcohol these are recepter regulation problems and can be treated with 12 steps but must have abstinence.
Venge
and no you cannot say with credibility that people are addicted to the chemical endorphine effect they get (the rush) from gambling... there have been dozens of studes done to show that is not the case. There has never been any study done that showed the opioid receptors were disregulating and necessitating a higher level of endorphin in order to cause the needed stimulus, actually they have shown the reverse, the receptors were functioning normally.
I prefer to go by the evidence.
Ya know, I'm asian and I'm about to do a 3 Rift session......
Hahahaha.....
crap...
"Chinese warrior needs food badly!"
"Can we get a cleric to rez my friend here?"
My question is, why did he spend so much money playing at a game annex instead of buying his own computer and playing at home?
My second question is, why did the game annex allow him to play for 3 days stright without maybe suggesting to him that he should go home or sleep?
My third question is that why wasn't he hitting on those cute chinese girls in the picture instead of playing the mmo? Maybe I need to go to china and play mmos at their game annex, find me a nice cute chinese girl, bring her back to America.
Ok, jokes aside, it is rather sad he died, but like it has been said before, people die from stupid things all the time, but it hits more to home when one of your own dies.
I am entitled to my opinions, misspellings, and grammatical errors.
"I believe that games can be defined as addictive because I am familiar with Nick Yee's years of research supporting that point of view." <-- That is an actual informed opinion and whether I agree with it or not, I respect someone who takes up that position.
I just don't have any respect for people who came by here saying "I believe that games can be defined as addictive because people write self-help books about it" or "because organized psychiatry has been wrong therefore nothing they come up with is correct" or "because like duhhhh! Of course they're addictive! Common sense!"
Nobody can die from playing a game for 3 days straight. There could of been something wrong with him before. And like you said, you can eat without food for a week. Proven fact. So, i agree to you.
Wouldn't the reporter state that he wrote that the guy died after three days of gaming and not because of three days of gaming.There is a big difference in the two statements, how we as the reader interprets them is a different matter. For all we know the guy died of a blood clot because he was sitting imobile for too long or he choked and lost consciousness because he was trying to munch a chicken wing while in an intense boss fight.
Isn't it incredible how simple constructive wording can create so many stories and inspire so much emotion with very little information whatsoever. The only facts stated were that he was Chinese and that he lost consciousness and later died. As the reporter wasn't there he does not know how much the person really ate or drank nor how he died, these are just suppositions.
Go without food for three days, yes. Do it easily, hell no. The body isn't meant to endure that, it just can usually. And if he wasn't eating, he likely wan't drinking either, and dehyrdration seriously beats the body up. As for gaming killing him, no, it didn't. Addiction, his stupidity, and the stupidity of the owners of the internet cafe killed him. He could have been using meth, or coke, or drinking. He should have stopped playing, and the people at the cafe should have shut down his session when he didn't. End of story.
No, the cause was addiction, not gaming. An addict will do almost anything for what they crave, and if they have an unlimited supply of it they will overdose, period. He pushed himself too far because the pleasure centers of his brain were locked in an stimulus feed-back loop. What's sad about this is not that this was done playing a game, it's that he had an addiction and it killed him. It doesn't matter what he was addicted to.
That is nitpicking. It is like saying the cause he died from lung cancer wasn't sigarets.
The game made him play for 3 days, if that's why he died, then the cause was excessive gaming.
It is time people admit that MMO are highly addictive, much more so than regular games.
Someone plays 3 days straight without sleep, that is insane, even gamblers aren't that bad.
This will happen again, are you going to say MMO are not the cause when they find another person dead behind their PC next time too?
QFT. Anyone who has had a modicum of military training knows 3 days with no food or sleep isnt fun, but hardly fatal.
Don't know what crazy military you people go to, but I asked my nephew who is in the military here in Belgium and they never put soldiers through training without food for 3 days.
He is correct, you do not know the clinical term for addiction. There is no evidence, period, you can be addicted to a video game.
He's speaking of a technical term, you're using it in the layman's realm. Technically, he is 100% correct.
The evidence is in a cascet in China right now.
This is not the first time this has happened. This is like the 10th time.
The game didn't make him do shit. The developer's didn't come to that cafe and strap him to the chair while putting toothpicks in his eyes to keep them open. The game didn't tell him "If you leave, I'll kill you!!". He was an adult, supposedly one with a semi-functioning brain. He made the choice to sit there for three days. He made the choice whether or not to eat or drink or sleep.
He was a friggin' moron, and selectively removed his own sad carcass from the gene pool. Plain and simple.
Oh, and since you keep harping on "cigarrettes" ( that's how you spell it by the way ), I've got another news flash for you. I smoke. I buy my cigarettes, I open the packs, I pull them out, I smoke them. The tobacco company isn't forcing me to do it. Sure, there's chemicals added to make me not want to quit, but it's my ultimate choice of whether I do or not. It's my decision, not the tobacco company's or anyone else'.
I have also played marathon gaming sessions of multiple days. Gues what? I'm still alive. Know why? Because I have the common fucking sense to have plenty of food and drink handy. But if people like you have their way, I'll have to have a fucking hall monitor standing over my shoulder telling me when and if i can do what I want when i want.
People like yourself throwing labels like "addiction" around for everything you deem as "not normal" are one of the reasons we have more and more stupid laws and "regulations" every day and more and more highly paid "professionals" to shove their opinions as fact down our throats every day.
Out of how many of hundreds of millions of gamers worldwide? Your statistic is laughable and would be something like .0000000000000000000000000001% of all gamers die. Yeah, let's bust out the funding and stop this scourge against humanity now.
No, this is not addiction. You want to apply the term to it because you think common sense dictates you can be addicted to a drug, why not other stimuli. Common sense does not dictate science, in fact it's often wrong and only provides excuse for further entrenchment of ignorance. Did the guy have problems, yes, was it a clinical addiction, no, the factors for addiction do not exist. No matter how much you want a word to mean somethng else it doesn't make it so. No one is saying the guy doesn't have issues, but at this point it's like saying he died from a 3,272 point crit while playing Super Power Up Hero Fantasy Online: XXIV.
The game did a lot of things you don't realise.
MMO uses conditioning based on skinner boxes. That's something normal games do not use.
They also randomise as much as possible, because according to the principles, random events make you want to do them. Events where you know the outcome don't.
So yes, the game made him do things he would have otherwise not done.
That is the whole issue here.
If he was playing another game that didn't use this design, would he have played for 3 days straight? The answer is no.
So how come all those "random deaths" are people playing MMO each and every time?
This doesn't happen with your average game. These deaths started with MMO.
We didn't have people playing tetris for 3 days straight.
As someone who is a social worker at a psychiatric hospital and works with addicts daily no, it is not nit-picking, it's called clinical expertise. And yes, gamblers are that bad and have died the same way. Casinos just don't advertise it, and also don't let gamblers get away with sitting in front of a one-armed bandit for 3 days straight (because it looks bad for business when they die, if nothing else). Addiction is devestating, and it does not matter if the addiction is to gaming, gambling, sex, alcohol, cocaine, or methamphetamine. It destroys lives and kills people, period. The simple truth to addiction is that the substance is almost irrelevant (alcohol and benzodiazepine withdrawal are lethal, everything else you just wish you were dead), it's the addiction that matters. That's why the long-term treatment remains the same for everyone, regardless of their type of addiction. And believe me, MMOs have nothing on booze and meth in terms of how addictive they are.
Skinner boxes are truly terrifying...if you're a lab rat.
And mmos with random constant random eveents? Where are these magical games, as I think all of us mmo'ers would love to play them.
Again, hundreds of millions of gamers worldwide, tens of millions ( at the least ) playing mmorpgs. Where's the tens of thousands of deaths from exposure to this highly addictive and deviously constructed devil's work?
Bzzzzzzt wrong, the answer is yes. When someone is addicted to one thing they can not get, they go looking for a substitute that is as close as possible to what they want. They use that until they can obtain what they really want or they decide to give up the addiction.
Now that's just stupid. Just because they add something in the game doesn't mean he's not capable of taking a break. I mean honestly, when I play a game (and I mean ANY game) I'm able to get up, get a drink, use the restroom, etc.
Like the poster before you said, the game didn't make him do shit. We as people are capable of making our OWN decisions, the game didn't force him to do anything, and it didn't hypnotize him into playing for 3 days straight. He did that out of his own free will, simple as that. It's not the game's fault, it's the man's fault for being such a dumbass and not taking a well needed break.