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99 servers... is Trion making the same mistake as Mythic did with WAR?

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  • RiftFanRiftFan Member Posts: 239

    Originally posted by Locklain

    Originally posted by RiftFan

    The servers to watch right now are the NA ones to see if those low pop servers start to pick

    up. EU is not a concern until the game is actually released in EU.

    I agree.  There are only six servers on medium population but most people are at work now and those with no jobs sleep until noon at least.  They were pretty full last night when I tried logging on again but time will tell.

    People need to understand. When Trion says EU they mean Europe/Russian/Britian/North Africa lol EU servers also have pan asian countries in there. This game runs at 200ms from Australia to Dallas which is pretty high.



    Now I think like a lot of people the majority of the flood in NA was during head start because

    it was cheaper, but Euro can be completely different.

     

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,941

    Originally posted by Locklain

    Originally posted by RiftFan

    The servers to watch right now are the NA ones to see if those low pop servers start to pick

    up. EU is not a concern until the game is actually released in EU.

    I agree.  There are only six servers on medium population but most people are at work now and those with no jobs sleep until noon at least.  They were pretty full last night when I tried logging on again but time will tell.

    Well, they are either at work or asleep and will be at work in a few hours.

    lol, and not everyone who doesn't have a job sleeps until noon. though when I don't have a job I sleep until 10:30am. 11am latest. image

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  • drazzahdrazzah Member UncommonPosts: 437

    All these servers are needed, a lot more people playing then i think anyone expected

    image

  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558

    Originally posted by drazzah

    All these servers are needed, a lot more people playing then i think anyone expected

     It s hard, they might have to now, but inevitably alot will be merged down the road. Not much they can do I guess, but if there are low servers already, maybe they did add too many.

  • RiftFanRiftFan Member Posts: 239

    Originally posted by drazzah

    All these servers are needed, a lot more people playing then i think anyone expected

    I wish they would define the terms "low","high". The assumption is full = 2.5k online concurrent

    and then you start to get queue's. Low could mean 1,000 online concurrent. That is 500 online

    possibly on each side in a perfect scenario.

    In games like War or Aion to accomplish anything you needed huge populations too. This game

    fits the WoW model where you can basically do everything you need to do in the game if you

    can find atleast 20 people.

     

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,941

    Originally posted by Soki123

    Originally posted by drazzah

    All these servers are needed, a lot more people playing then i think anyone expected

     It s hard, they might have to now, but inevitably alot will be merged down the road. Not much they can do I guess, but if there are low servers already, maybe they did add too many.

    Eventually they will need to merge servers.

    Not everyone who purchased the game will want to play in the long run, people will lose interest, people will realize the game is not for them or find something else.

    Some people might not have taken advantage of the open beta and thought "what the hell" and bought the game to try it.

    I think the industry (and players) need to realize that this surge will always happen and that many of these players aren't going to be here in a few months therefore server merges are always inevitable. It's not a bad thing.

    It is a bad thing if you merge most of your servers.

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  • ZinzanZinzan Member UncommonPosts: 1,351

    Originally posted by Soki123

    Originally posted by drazzah

    All these servers are needed, a lot more people playing then i think anyone expected

     It s hard, they might have to now, but inevitably alot will be merged down the road. Not much they can do I guess, but if there are low servers already, maybe they did add too many.

    Pretty much true, not a lot they can do, everyone knows the population will nose dive after the first 1-3 months, it does in every new mmo, it'll mean clustering and the doomsayers will predict the end, but it's just the way things are these days.

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  • ComafComaf Member UncommonPosts: 1,150

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Soki123


    Originally posted by drazzah

    All these servers are needed, a lot more people playing then i think anyone expected

     It s hard, they might have to now, but inevitably alot will be merged down the road. Not much they can do I guess, but if there are low servers already, maybe they did add too many.

    Eventually they will need to merge servers.

    Not everyone who purchased the game will want to play in the long run, people will lose interest, people will realize the game is not for them or find something else.

    Some people might not have taken advantage of the open beta and thought "what the hell" and bought the game to try it.

    I think the industry (and players) need to realize that this surge will always happen and that many of these players aren't going to be here in a few months therefore server merges are always inevitable. It's not a bad thing.

    It is a bad thing if you merge most of your servers.

    The difference is that Rifts began the game live with cross server pvp.  Something the guys at War had no concept of.

     

    Secondly - while Rifts takes the good from games we all have played - it leaves out the bad - and to be different tha Warhammer do you know what they did?  THEY MADE THE GAME FUN.  No moronic classes like elven archers with 1 sword and a free hand - whereas even the animators that created the open scene of the game (*the movie part) showed a dual weilding elf fighting a marauder.  Yeah - sadly the artists had more imagination than the developers.

     

    They may have overdone the server quantity - but the game quality is amazing.

     

    /my 2 cents

    image
  • EinhejarEinhejar Member UncommonPosts: 15

    Originally posted by Soki123

    Originally posted by drazzah

    All these servers are needed, a lot more people playing then i think anyone expected

     It s hard, they might have to now, but inevitably alot will be merged down the road. Not much they can do I guess, but if there are low servers already, maybe they did add too many.

    Probably this amount of servers is due to the uprising on the forums that happened on day 1 of the headstart, everyone whining and waving pitchforks about how they want more servers now or they're opting for a refund. Like they're somehow entitled over everyone else who more or less paid the same price and/or showed interest enough to put in a pre-order. Some people got in for free, (i.e, Amazon Retail Pre-order) others paid up front. (Digital)

    Queues on launch were probably fine/not as bad a couple years back, but now TRION is directly competing in this crowded market, (They aren't subtle about this either) and I guess they played it safe by launching so many servers anticipating they would get an even higher volume than they got during headstart.

    A lot of these new ones will probably be merged sometime down the road, agreed, even "The game that should not be mentioned lest it start a flame war" has consolidations and free transfers once in a while, it just doesn't hurt them that bad since they have so many subscribers and the game retains a lot of subscribers even through all these years.

    I think the shards would be healthier if they just decided to give a retail key grace period.

  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558

    Originally posted by Comaf

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Originally posted by Soki123

    Originally posted by drazzah

    All these servers are needed, a lot more people playing then i think anyone expected

     It s hard, they might have to now, but inevitably alot will be merged down the road. Not much they can do I guess, but if there are low servers already, maybe they did add too many.

    Eventually they will need to merge servers.

    Not everyone who purchased the game will want to play in the long run, people will lose interest, people will realize the game is not for them or find something else.

    Some people might not have taken advantage of the open beta and thought "what the hell" and bought the game to try it.

    I think the industry (and players) need to realize that this surge will always happen and that many of these players aren't going to be here in a few months therefore server merges are always inevitable. It's not a bad thing.

    It is a bad thing if you merge most of your servers.

    The difference is that Rifts began the game live with cross server pvp.  Something the guys at War had no concept of.

     

    Secondly - while Rifts takes the good from games we all have played - it leaves out the bad - and to be different tha Warhammer do you know what they did?  THEY MADE THE GAME FUN.  No moronic classes like elven archers with 1 sword and a free hand - whereas even the animators that created the open scene of the game (*the movie part) showed a dual weilding elf fighting a marauder.  Yeah - sadly the artists had more imagination than the developers.

     

    They may have overdone the server quantity - but the game quality is amazing.

     

    /my 2 cents

     See this is the problem I have, why is it everyone keeps saying they took the good from games and left out the bad. Thats highly subjective. Also saying they made the game fun, is highly subjective. You might feel so, but after a month or 2 alot won t. What exactly is the good from other games anyways?

  • MMO.MaverickMMO.Maverick Member CommonPosts: 7,619

    Originally posted by VirusDancer

    Originally posted by MMO.Maverick


    Originally posted by VirusDancer



    Was only for how many were actually playing - not how many created toons, played, left, etc.

    For a shard with any sort of population, it would obviously not likely work unless the Social feature actually listed every single person of a particular level.  It was only because the playing population is so small that what I did was feasible.

    Why wouldn't it work to count the players logged in when the population is sizeable?

    Does it randomly show players and randomly leaves players out of the shown lists?

    That I do not know.  I never really bothered with pop counts before.  Many games are capped at how many players they show for a certain level range, so it does not give a true number.  I do not know if Trion followed suit with that or not - hence I do not know if it would work for a higher pop server than the pittance that are currently playing on Carrion.

    Usually in other MMO's you can make subselections or put on filters to circumvent the cap in the count.

    Let's say the cap is only 50 players can be shown. Then next to the level, you choose the class, and if that isn't enough you choose the race. That's how I did it for LotrO and AoC and EQ lately. Worked pretty well.

    Not sure if that's possible for the Social feature in Rift though, to use as a selective players count.

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  • Darkheart00Darkheart00 Member Posts: 521

    Originally posted by Soki123

    Originally posted by Comaf


    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Originally posted by Soki123


    Originally posted by drazzah

    All these servers are needed, a lot more people playing then i think anyone expected

     It s hard, they might have to now, but inevitably alot will be merged down the road. Not much they can do I guess, but if there are low servers already, maybe they did add too many.

    Eventually they will need to merge servers.

    Not everyone who purchased the game will want to play in the long run, people will lose interest, people will realize the game is not for them or find something else.

    Some people might not have taken advantage of the open beta and thought "what the hell" and bought the game to try it.

    I think the industry (and players) need to realize that this surge will always happen and that many of these players aren't going to be here in a few months therefore server merges are always inevitable. It's not a bad thing.

    It is a bad thing if you merge most of your servers.

    The difference is that Rifts began the game live with cross server pvp.  Something the guys at War had no concept of.

     

    Secondly - while Rifts takes the good from games we all have played - it leaves out the bad - and to be different tha Warhammer do you know what they did?  THEY MADE THE GAME FUN.  No moronic classes like elven archers with 1 sword and a free hand - whereas even the animators that created the open scene of the game (*the movie part) showed a dual weilding elf fighting a marauder.  Yeah - sadly the artists had more imagination than the developers.

     

    They may have overdone the server quantity - but the game quality is amazing.

     

    /my 2 cents

     See this is the problem I have, why is it everyone keeps saying they took the good from games and left out the bad. Thats highly subjective. Also saying they made the game fun, is highly subjective. You might feel so, but after a month or 2 alot won t. What exactly is the good from other games anyways?

    Here is a list of good things

    Rifts are better idea than PQs from WAR since they scale based on number of players and graphic is pretty nice.

    Crafting i would say it is on par with vanilla WoW.

    Instances: so far i run two its better than Lotor, WAR or Aion. Boss fights have interesting mechanics. But still tad lower than instances in WoW like Mara or ZA.

    Achievements are pretty nice idea similar to what is in WoW. The game doesn't have as many achievement as WoW however.

    BGs are pretty well done and the maps are balanced with loot and favor (similar to honor). On par with WSG or AB in WoW but the game doesn't have as many BG maps like WAR (could be good thing for balance).

    Grouping: open world grouping is well implemented. I would say one of the best.

     

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,941

    Originally posted by Comaf

    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Originally posted by Soki123


    Originally posted by drazzah

    All these servers are needed, a lot more people playing then i think anyone expected

     It s hard, they might have to now, but inevitably alot will be merged down the road. Not much they can do I guess, but if there are low servers already, maybe they did add too many.

    Eventually they will need to merge servers.

    Not everyone who purchased the game will want to play in the long run, people will lose interest, people will realize the game is not for them or find something else.

    Some people might not have taken advantage of the open beta and thought "what the hell" and bought the game to try it.

    I think the industry (and players) need to realize that this surge will always happen and that many of these players aren't going to be here in a few months therefore server merges are always inevitable. It's not a bad thing.

    It is a bad thing if you merge most of your servers.

    The difference is that Rifts began the game live with cross server pvp.  Something the guys at War had no concept of.

     

    Secondly - while Rifts takes the good from games we all have played - it leaves out the bad - and to be different tha Warhammer do you know what they did?  THEY MADE THE GAME FUN.  No moronic classes like elven archers with 1 sword and a free hand - whereas even the animators that created the open scene of the game (*the movie part) showed a dual weilding elf fighting a marauder.  Yeah - sadly the artists had more imagination than the developers.

     

    They may have overdone the server quantity - but the game quality is amazing.

     

    /my 2 cents

    Well, fun is subjective. Personally I liked Warhammer's classes though I'm not sure what you are saying with the "elven archers with one sword and a free hand"?

    Are you saying that they should have included the bow (which I suppose they should have) or that no one would ever fight with one sword only when they can fight with two?

    The difference between Rift and a Warhammer or Conan launch is that there aren't that many complaints compared to those other games.

    Both those other games had all sorts of glitches ( I still can't get a straight answer for the funcom people as to whether or not my Herald of Xotli will change hair if I use the demon morphing ability) and didn't live up to their expectations.

    Rift might have dissapointed a few people who thought it was going to be a different type fo game but they really didn't advertise it as being anything other than what it was. With the exception of the whole "next gen" thing which some people took as being the next evolution in gaming and it turned out it had more to do with how they use their servers/technology.

    So Rift is more solid and should retain more players. The issue is whether or not Rift's game play can sustain players for months until the next infusion of content.

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  • CeridithCeridith Member UncommonPosts: 2,980

    The alternative is doing what Blizzard did in the beginning with WoW, and take too long to add new servers, jamming people into existing servers to the point where server stability was an afterthought.

    I remember the first 6 months of WoW being nearly unplayable due to lag, server crashes, and other ridiculousness. Rift on the otherhand has not had any of these problems so far.

  • CrackboneCrackbone Member Posts: 212

    The problem is that most of the MMO population today is now frontloaded.   

    I agree, empty servers aren't a good thing, and neither or merges, but you get stuck in a "damned if you do, damned if you don't " situations. 

    Too few servers give you the types of queues Rift has fallen victim to in headstart, and that's not a postiive thing.  People will eventually get frustrated with it, and just throw the game to the wayside. 

    WAR's spread out population was a very different problem for a number of different reason : 

    1. Your entire endgame was based on primarily open two faction RvR.  No cross server instanced PvP either.  The entire PvP experience was based on your server's population, and that was the death for anyone that was stuck on a ghost town. 

    2. Lakes were too large.  This served to exaserbate the problem of a lower population server.  Too large of an area, too little population. 

    3. EA/Mythic took too long to even try to solve the problem.  

    4. WAR PvE sucks.  It's terrible, and it served little to no purpose for character progression.  Add the fact that most of the PQs were static, not based on zone population, served to make the zones look more like ghost towns. Open PvE was used for levelling in most situations. 

    Rift might have some challenges down the line, but all in all, it's a totally different situation that what we ran into with WAR.  WAR's problem was both it's server count and faulty game design. 

  • RiftFanRiftFan Member Posts: 239

    Originally posted by Ceridith

    The alternative is doing what Blizzard did in the beginning with WoW, and take too long to add new servers, jamming people into existing servers to the point where server stability was an afterthought.

    I remember the first 6 months of WoW being nearly unplayable due to lag, server crashes, and other ridiculousness. Rift on the otherhand has not had any of these problems so far.

    I do notice one thing. Do a search for the word 'rift review" in google. You get a lot of

    results. Now scroll down and look at the comments:



    "this really does look like WOW 2.0. i'm interested to see what score it gets, got tricked

    on aion and ff14 so i'm going to be really patient in picking another mmo."



    I think Aion and FF14 were very bad burns on the NA/Eu communities. If Rift is still getting

    good reviews in a month and end game is delivering could we see more servers?



    Trion is in a pretty sweet little situation right now. They just need to spread the population

    out to calm the queue's on a few servers and address minor bugs or exploits as they are found.



    I wonder how far ahead they are on raid content then they expected to be.

  • LethalBurstLethalBurst Member UncommonPosts: 367

    Originally posted by Xzen

    From what I can tell they are making ALL the same mistakes.

    Considering the fact that Trion consists of some of the WAR team, does this surprise anyone?

  • RiftFanRiftFan Member Posts: 239

    Originally posted by LethalBurst

    Originally posted by Xzen

    From what I can tell they are making ALL the same mistakes.

    Considering the fact that Trion consists of some of the WAR team, does this surprise anyone?

    It is just two different styles of game from the way a ton of us see it. One game just

    requires huge populations to even function and multiple other flaws while Rift can get

    away with much smaller populations and is extremely functional.

  • SkullFighterSkullFighter Member UncommonPosts: 31

    I would much rather be able to play than wait in a 6 or 8 hour queue.  I surely dont mind server mergers as long as I get to play with my guildies. 

    As it is now I am on some other server because the one my guildies are on had a 6 hour queue when i tried to join during headstart.  I tried to login last night and it was still a 2 hour queue.  There are people who already gave it up because of not being able to play with guildies.  They should have opened more right from the get go instead of a week later. 

  • Spiritof55Spiritof55 Member Posts: 405

    Perception is 90% reality.

    Having so many servers at launch is a bad idea and I seriously doubt they really need that many at this time.  When servers are merged and that will probably happen sooner rather than later it will appear to many as if the game is a failure.  The playerbase is leaving (and many do leave, it happens to every launch, some stay, many leave). 

    I'd rather begin with  a few servers and quickly add them as needed than to be seen merging servers shortly after launch.  Shortly can be months later in mmorpg terms.

  • RiftFanRiftFan Member Posts: 239

    Originally posted by SkullFighter

    I would much rather be able to play than wait in a 6 or 8 hour queue.  I surely dont mind server mergers as long as I get to play with my guildies. 

    As it is now I am on some other server because the one my guildies are on had a 6 hour queue when i tried to join during headstart.  I tried to login last night and it was still a 2 hour queue.  There are people who already gave it up because of not being able to play with guildies.  They should have opened more right from the get go instead of a week later. 

    They opened 19 servers the first day in NA. That not enough for you? A very large amount of guilds have re-rolled. MMO rule # 1 you can not designate a server the unofficial pvp server + oceanic server and realistically expect to actually play the game.

    In Eu I count 1,000 people in queue's on 4 servers and like 20 servers with no queue's

    http://www.riftgame.com/en/status/index.php

    The situation right now is Trion is saying to roll there and some guilds are refusing too saying they are "established" already and the game came out 7 days ago. Only solution now for Trion is to offer them free transfers which noone could have expected, so the system was not ready.

    Also queue times are caused by the fact their are certain people who are just not logging off because there is that much to do end game. Do not ask me why, but some people feel the need to cap every singe expert mode instance and raid in the first 10 days.

    US examples:

    Briarcliff was decided to be the unofficial Oceanic server + people spammed evey forum saying it would be the greatest pvp server with all these pvp guilds rolling there = 500 person queue's that are never going away

    EU Example:

    The Russians posted on the forums specifically stating we are going to Whitefall. One guy even made a youtube video about that was pretty funny + someone decided to call Whitefall the unofficial pvp server = 600 people in queue as we speak.

  • NethermancerNethermancer Member Posts: 520

    damned if you do or damned if you dont. Its seems this is a common theme is the MMO market. You know for a fact if there were not enough servers people would be raging about queues just like they did at headstart.

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  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558

    http://www.riftgame.com/en/status/index.php

    Thats more Low then I thought there would be.

  • Darkheart00Darkheart00 Member Posts: 521

    Originally posted by Soki123

    http://www.riftgame.com/en/status/index.php

    Thats more Low then I thought there would be.

    It is only 6 PM in england and already there are servers which are full.

  • Soki123Soki123 Member RarePosts: 2,558

    Originally posted by Darkheart00

    Originally posted by Soki123

    http://www.riftgame.com/en/status/index.php

    Thats more Low then I thought there would be.

    It is only 6 PM in england and already there are servers which are full.

     I stillmaintain, thats alot more low then I thought there would be, 6 pm is primetime for alot of MMO players.

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