Originally posted by Kleir The monk is replaced with the guardian, and that would cover Dwayna.
The professions are no longer tied to the human gods, so "covering" has nothing to do with it. And the Guardian did not so much replace the Monk as evolve from the Monk's position within support. And keep in mind that I am not arguing that the Monk will be in the game. I highly doubt that it will. However, it is still a good counter-example for your arguments in favor of the Mesmer.
Anet chooses when to work on each profession and when to release them. They make sure the categories are fairly even to maintain hype. Easier professions to finalize were released first. All professions were determined and constructed way back, they just adjust them over the most recent months.
In so far as this statement comports with what Eric Flannum has said about the development process, I have no argument against it. However, in the article I cited he explicitly states that there is no grand scheme to revealing the professions, and thus no pre-determined pattern.
I was not saying the name engineer or mechanic or slayer or barbarian would be used... its merely a placeholder :P
I understand. I thought the statements I made about the engineer would come off as obviously tongue-in-cheek. Apparently not. In reality I have no doubt my grandfather would make Zhaitan shake like someone's pet iguana.
Musketeer as a name is just a bit specific, its almost like blader or axe-thrower. Engineer just gives people an idea of contructs, gadgets, and gizmos. When I mentioned slayer, the point was the light armor and huge weapons. A barbarian is very different from the swashbucker, pirate, musketeer thing you guys are getting at, which in my mind is very close to a mesmer and/or thief.
You apparently do not understand the archetype which we are referring to. You should probably watch an adaptation of The Three Musketeers. I particularly enjoyed the Wishbone version. A Musketeer is not a rogue or a trickster. As an archetype he would be a kind of swashbuckling adventurer with a bit of soldier flavor thrown in. In this way he would be like your barbarian, in that he would be a kind of hybrid between soldiers and adventurers. He would also be like your Engineer in that he would primarily use firearms rather than archaic weapons.
Now for the ranger, I always get someone on this. The axe for a ranger is not a melee weapon, it is a thrown weapon.
"Whirling Defense" (the only axe skill I am directly aware of) would seem to suggest otherwise. None of the skill videos show the axe leaving the character's hand even once. Are you privy to some sort of information I am not aware of? As a matter of fact, the only skill video depicting an axe being thrown has it coming from the hands of a Warrior (The beginning of "Eviscerate").
The sword is a weapon for giving range to the ranger. Kicks, dashing backwards, attacking from a distance, etc.
I am not entirely sure what you are getting at here. "Serpent Strike," for instance, does not seem to fit into any of these categories.
The dagger is thrown.
Are you saying every dagger skill is a ranged skill? Are you sure about that?
We have not seen the greatsword in action, but that would probably have some sort of ranged flavor to it as well.
I suppose a ranger will throw his sword and have it come back to him like a boomerang? Or perhaps they'll just be really-really-really long?
The ranger is not limited to ranged weapons, but its mechanic is focused on keeping range. As an adventurer, the ranger cannot safely just face to face hack n slash a foe like a warrior or guardian could. Thieves jump in and out, while rapidly attacking in each interval, then they go stealth. All ways of protecting the thief. The Ranger focuses on staying away from the foe to protect itself. There are no longer stances that will just dodge for you like in GW...
I think you are displaying a very limited view of what these professions are capable of. I would argue that they are far more versatile than you realize.
The axe for a ranger is not a melee weapon, it is a thrown weapon.
"Whirling Defense" (the only axe skill I am directly aware of) would seem to suggest otherwise. None of the skill videos show the axe leaving the character's hand even once. Are you privy to some sort of information I am not aware of? As a matter of fact, the only skill video depicting an axe being thrown has it coming from the hands of a Warrior (The beginning of "Eviscerate").
Originally posted by Grigor_Bron Originally posted by Kleir The monk is replaced with the guardian, and that would cover Dwayna.
The professions are no longer tied to the human gods, so "covering" has nothing to do with it. And the Guardian did not so much replace the Monk as evolve from the Monk's position within support. And keep in mind that I am not arguing that the Monk will be in the game. I highly doubt that it will. However, it is still a good counter-example for your arguments in favor of the Mesmer.
The monk can't be a good-counter example since it was already confirmed via interview on GW2Guru that monk is not a profession in GW2 (back in November IIRC). But on the other hand there is some fairly overwhelming evidence that mesmer is in: the art, and several references in the two books--including one that says that Queen Jennah and her retinue are mesmers.
And on the topic of the two books and possible professions, there are also several references to 'chirurgeons' in both books and it has started me thinking... As we know, chirurgeons use devices to heal people... And as many people have speculated that there could be an 'engineer' profession that could use devices in combat (mines, turrets, traps, etc.) Could the two be one and the same, might there be a class that specializes in "devices" that can be used offensively, defensively, and restoratively?
Mesmer WILL be one of the professions, it is already mentioned in the books and it is a major part of GW2 lore (lyssa & raven spirit).
That can also be said for the monk. The Durmond Priory has been shown to be a major player in the Guild Wars 2 world, there was a monk in every single party in the first Guild Wars (Sorry, but you simply cannot say that about Mesmers), and - let's face it - Dwayna was always higher up in the Guild Wars pantheon than Lyssa.
snip
I have to respond to this.
Your logic would make sense and work if Anet didn't already confirm that monks wouldn't make it into the game. Lore-wise they may still be there but they have been confirmed to not be playable.
No, my friend, they have confirmed that there will be no dedicated healer. But that is simply not the same thing as saying Monks will not return. Remember, they also said there would be no dedicated tanks, but Warriors are still playable in the game (Also note that they said there would be no dedicated crowd control professions, which would preclude the Mesmer). Find me a statement in which they actually say the Monk will not be returning, and I will happily withdraw my argument.
Anet actually said that Monks will not return, in any way.
Q: Is there any lore on why certain professions from GW1 do not make it into GW2?
A: Interestingly enough, we were talking about the monk just the other day and we haven't made it official lore yet, we're just talking about it, but there are reasons. How much we're going to reveal is up in the air, really. We looked at what we were doing and said "Wait a minute, this makes sense. Let's see if we can incorporate it." It's a great story.
Mesmers are not just playable in GW1 but 250 years later mesmer magic is named as one of the three schools of magic (together with necromancer and elementalist magic) in the first book. In the second book several people are named mesmers, including the queen of the humans who does a lot of pretty awesome mesmer-y stuff so we know that mesmers will be in GW2. Whether or not they are playable is different matter. I am convinced about the mesmer being the 3rd scholar profession however.
Back to the whole gunner/musketeer/engineer/mechanic class that may or may not be in it.. In the races of tyria video, the charr that used rifles also had an axehead attached. Does this help anybody's theory?
No, my friend, they have confirmed that there will be no dedicated healer. But that is simply not the same thing as saying Monks will not return. Remember, they also said there would be no dedicated tanks, but Warriors are still playable in the game (Also note that they said there would be no dedicated crowd control professions, which would preclude the Mesmer). Find me a statement in which they actually say the Monk will not be returning, and I will happily withdraw my argument.
Anet actually said that Monks will not return, in any way. Q: Is there any lore on why certain professions from GW1 do not make it into GW2?
A: Interestingly enough, we were talking about the monk just the other day and we haven't made it official lore yet, we're just talking about it, but there are reasons. How much we're going to reveal is up in the air, really. We looked at what we were doing and said "Wait a minute, this makes sense. Let's see if we can incorporate it." It's a great story. From http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=337340&postcount=1 Mesmers are not just playable in GW1 but 250 years later mesmer magic is named as one of the three schools of magic (together with necromancer and elementalist magic) in the first book. In the second book several people are named mesmers, including the queen of the humans who does a lot of pretty awesome mesmer-y stuff so we know that mesmers will be in GW2. Whether or not they are playable is different matter. I am convinced about the mesmer being the 3rd scholar profession however.
Hm... That's a lot to take from that one ambiguous statement, but I'll go with it. So Monks are not in Guild Wars 2. What does that prove? That Mesmers will be a playable profession? As I stated before, my purpose in mentioning the Monk was not to argue that it will be in the game, but that the arguments put forward for the Mesmer have dopplegangers in favor of the Monk. In the end, we simply have no idea what they will throw at us.
Hm... That's a lot to take from that one ambiguous statement, but I'll go with it. So Monks are not in Guild Wars 2. What does that prove? That Mesmers will be a playable profession? As I stated before, my purpose in mentioning the Monk was not to argue that it will be in the game, but that the arguments put forward for the Mesmer have dopplegangers in favor of the Monk. In the end, we simply have no idea what they will throw at us.
I think we have SOME idea of what they will throw at us.
ANet specifically stated one of the four remaining classes would be a returning profession as you can see in the link provided...if that's not good enough for you I could hunt down the original official tweet but I'd prefer not to. Anyway, there's substantially more evidence in favor of mesmer than rit and especially dervish. It also seems highly unlikely that some fourth school of magic is going to appear in the year or so between the books and GW2, and that the five races could master that profession within that time from a lore perspective...unless the third scholar isn't part of a school of magic, which is also unlikely.
Also, there are so many other instances where ANet confirmed the monk is not returning, such as in this article:
Plus they were quick to correct eurogamer when they misreported that mesmers were not returning. They don't correct the gaming sites when they say that about monks, so the monk scenario is not analagous to the mesmer (or the other potentially returning professions.) We have since learned that the thief is the returning profession with a new name (assassin), which again leaves one returning profession and one more new profession (the mysterious 8th profession.)
"Mod Edit: Despite Eurogamer's conclusion that the Mesmer and Assassin won't be in Guild Wars 2, Anet have not confirmed or denied anything and this article offers no significant revelation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein
Basically all Jon said was "We are not talking about unreleased professions."
There's the at least one profession that can use guns but not bows yet to be revealed. Don't see mesmer using guns, so that leaves the final adventurer. And since we have one profession that can use rifle but not pistols (warrior) and one that can use pistols but not rifles (thief) I'm guessing we'll get one that can use both.
There are two professions left. One is new and one is returning. Of the returning professions, the options are Mesmer, Ritualist or Dervish. The books were (are being) written alongside the development of the game, with a great deal of back and forth between the author and the developers. So far, the Mesmer has been specifically mentioned in Ghosts of Ascalon. Neither of the other two candidates have been.
You can come at this in as many directions as you like but it remains that there is far more evidence (direct and indirect) for Mesmer's being the final returning class than there is for any other, aside from those which have already been released.
And maintaining that the Monk is just as likely as the Mesmer is simply being argumentative. There will be no dedicated healing class. Without the healing line, that leaves Smiting and Protection for Monks. Guardians already have these skills, at least some of them have made it to the new class with their original name intact (Aegis). Even some of the effects feature the Ankh, the symbol that had been used for Monk skills. So, without Healing, Smiting or Protection, there can be no Monks.
If you want to prop up a straw man, use either the Ritualist of the Dervish. At least with those classes, there's nothing that outright contradicts their inclusion. The fact that there is zero evidence supporting them is immaterial.
There are two professions left. One is new and one is returning. Of the returning professions, the options are Mesmer, Ritualist or Dervish. The books were (are being) written alongside the development of the game, with a great deal of back and forth between the author and the developers. So far, the Mesmer has been specifically mentioned in Ghosts of Ascalon. Neither of the other two candidates have been.
You can come at this in as many directions as you like but it remains that there is far more evidence (direct and indirect) for Mesmer's being the final returning class than there is for any other, aside from those which have already been released.
And maintaining that the Monk is just as likely as the Mesmer is simply being argumentative. There will be no dedicated healing class. Without the healing line, that leaves Smiting and Protection for Monks. Guardians already have these skills, at least some of them have made it to the new class with their original name intact (Aegis). Even some of the effects feature the Ankh, the symbol that had been used for Monk skills. So, without Healing, Smiting or Protection, there can be no Monks.
If you want to prop up a straw man, use either the Ritualist of the Dervish. At least with those classes, there's nothing that outright contradicts their inclusion. The fact that there is zero evidence supporting them is immaterial.
I would like to clear something up. When there were only 4 professions left one of the devs came out and gave us some clues as to what they were. He said there will be "AT LEASTONE returning profession, AT LEAST ONE new profession and AT LEAST ONE profession that is similar with a new name".
We were never given any solid numbers about this. We were given the Thief (similar profession with new name) and the Guardian (either new or similar with new name). This means that the next 2 can be either both returning, one new and one returning or one returning and one similar with a new name.
Like I said before, we were never given any solid numbers so we cannot make any solid guesses on what classes are next.
Yes! All of this arguing we have been doing, and it was right in front of us the whole time! What a fool I have been!
The one on the left is the adventurer.
Yes, there's certainly something adventurous about being a hermaphroditic self-impregnating radioactive dinosaur.
... unfortunately, it's the sort of adventurous that has made me severely reconsider whether I should still buy GW2 now. New professions ruined the game.
Originally posted by Meowhead Originally posted by romanator0
Originally posted by Grigor_Bron
Originally posted by star8472
Here are the last 2 classes in guild wars 2 =D
Yes! All of this arguing we have been doing, and it was right in front of us the whole time! What a fool I have been! The one on the left is the adventurer. Yes, there's certainly something adventurous about being a hermaphroditic self-impregnating radioactive dinosaur. ... unfortunately, it's the sort of adventurous that has made me severely reconsider whether I should still buy GW2 now. New professions ruined the game.
But there are three classes in that screen-shot...
There are two professions left. One is new and one is returning. Of the returning professions, the options are Mesmer, Ritualist or Dervish. The books were (are being) written alongside the development of the game, with a great deal of back and forth between the author and the developers. So far, the Mesmer has been specifically mentioned in Ghosts of Ascalon. Neither of the other two candidates have been.
You can come at this in as many directions as you like but it remains that there is far more evidence (direct and indirect) for Mesmer's being the final returning class than there is for any other, aside from those which have already been released.
And maintaining that the Monk is just as likely as the Mesmer is simply being argumentative. There will be no dedicated healing class. Without the healing line, that leaves Smiting and Protection for Monks. Guardians already have these skills, at least some of them have made it to the new class with their original name intact (Aegis). Even some of the effects feature the Ankh, the symbol that had been used for Monk skills. So, without Healing, Smiting or Protection, there can be no Monks.
If you want to prop up a straw man, use either the Ritualist of the Dervish. At least with those classes, there's nothing that outright contradicts their inclusion. The fact that there is zero evidence supporting them is immaterial.
Eric Flannum says "Finally, in our lore the assassin is very much a profession that has its root in Cantha and since we aren't visiting Cantha in the initial release of Guild Wars 2 we didn't want to draw any lore parallels between this new profession and the assassin."
Based on this, I doubt that the returning profession will not be from Cantha or Elona.
Also, I don't know why the popularity of the mesmer even enters into discussion because GW2 is NOT GW1. Who's to say that ANet didn't look at the mesmer and say "How can we impliment this class differently so that it's more viable in GW2?" As I've said elsewhere, you don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I guarentee you that ANet did not make decisions based on what and wasn't popular, but based on what could and couldn't fit into their vision for GW2. Again, it's safe to say the expansion classes didn't fit.
The monk didn't fit either, and anyone still saying the monk could return is, like Unlight said, simply being argumentative.
Here's a direct quote: "In Guild Wars 1 we had a Monk. We know people like to play that profession, we also know we're not building a dedicated healer in our game, so we couldn't bring in a character called a Monk into our game and say oh we just totally annulled his healing and took away his connection to the gods," explained Peters.
Popular? Yes. Did it fit? No. Clearly fit > popularity.
As far as I'm concerned people fit into three categories relative to the mesmer, 1) people who don't like mesmers and/or can't play mesmers, 2) people who like the idea of mesmers but not necessarily how they were implemented in game (I fit into this group, even though my main and only is a mesmer) and 3) people who love mesmers.
GW2 is an opportunity for the reality of mesmers in game to be as alluring as the idea of mesmers on paper. A dedicated healer didn't fit in GW2, a mind bending master of illusion can and does (as evidenced by its continued inclusion in the lore.)
One is the Mesmer and the last and new one is unknown. But some think the last one will use guns and be proficient in things like bombs and turrets. It's anyones guess what the last new one will be.
It is confirmed that out of the final two professions, one will be a returning profession and one will be a brand new profession.
Then Arenanet mentioned something about how GW players who played assassins will be happy, and GW players who played mesmer will be happy.
Since the thief was a reconstructed assassin, we know that the profession to make mesmer players happy that will just be a returning profession will not have as many changes.
The next profession will probably be the mesmer, with that name since it is the returning profession (like the elementalist, warrior, necromancer, & ranger), since they seem to be following a pattern with archetypes of profession releases, but then again anet did say they were not following a pattern.
For those of you who say mesmers aren't that popular or whatnot, and for those of you who say mesmers made GW unique from every other MMO, all I can say is none of that really matters for GW2. They are looking for a profession that will work, a profession that is unique in mechanic and lore, and a profession that isn't too complicated to play and very fun to play. They try to cover every possibility (of lore & mechanic) with each profession, and they have yet to have a mind-oriented profession that attacks with non physical harm. For its theme, we still need the masquerade, joker, clown, magician, bard, or entertainer looking profession. We even have the raven spirit and Goddess Lyssa who relate to trickery and charm. You might say a necromancer's fear is enough mind-control for GW2, but fear is a physical fight-or-flight response. Maybe you even think dazing is enough mind-control, but once again that is a physical reaction to harm of the head. There are so many possibilities a mind-oriented profession could have (illusions, mind-reading, mind-control, memory erasing, unconsiousness, etc.) but it seems very difficult to incorporate such things into a game. With this in mind, the mesmer may be the last profession to be released since it is so difficult to make perfect. A thief's stealth is easy to incorporate into a game since it just makes it invisible to players. But trying to make a player confused or delusional is harder to do. It is easy to just say your character is confused and it randomly attacks allies (which is what some WoW bosses do... & I hate it), but the GW mesmer had something unique in PvP where it could literally frustrate and mentally affect a player.
So will there be a mesmer in GW2? I believe so... is there proof of it? Yes, in books and concept art. Will it be a playable profession? Now thats another question that I cannot answer.
As for the other profession, it stumps me. I have predicted all of the released professions so far, and I have absolutely no idea about this final profession. People say it may be a mechanic/engineer (it will definitly not be called a gunner or musketeer, that is too specific on a certain type of weapon. Ranger was a fine name since it was specific to its natural theme and ranged playstyle [don't try and argue that they aren't ranged-oriented, cuz they are, even with all their melee weapons]. Plus we already have a sword-pistol profession that could look pirate-ish, the thief!), and I could believe it. The theme is relevant to the industrial revolution over the past hundreds of years. I have no idea on the mechanic though. I'm assuming they can build or reinforce constructs and make environmental weapons for their allies such as gadgets and gizmos. I guess they could make traps too, being the 3rd profession that can do that. They will probably use pistols, rifles, and big heavy two handed weapons. Who knows what their special ability will be. Who knows if they will even have a twist, like the thief's initiative system.
"Many have eyes, but few have seen." - Goddess Lyssa
It is confirmed that out of the final two professions, one will be a returning profession and one will be a brand new profession.
Then Arenanet mentioned something about how GW players who played assassins will be happy, and GW players who played mesmer will be happy.
Since the thief was a reconstructed assassin, we know that the profession to make mesmer players happy that will just be a returning profession will not have as many changes.
The next profession will probably be the mesmer, with that name since it is the returning profession (like the elementalist, warrior, necromancer, & ranger), since they seem to be following a pattern with archetypes of profession releases, but then again anet did say they were not following a pattern.
For those of you who say mesmers aren't that popular or whatnot, and for those of you who say mesmers made GW unique from every other MMO, all I can say is none of that really matters for GW2. They are looking for a profession that will work, a profession that is unique in mechanic and lore, and a profession that isn't too complicated to play and very fun to play. They try to cover every possibility (of lore & mechanic) with each profession, and they have yet to have a mind-oriented profession that attacks with the non physical harm. For its theme, we still need the masquerade, joker, clown, magician, bard, or entertainer appearing profession. You might say a necromancer's fear is enough mind-control for GW2, but fear is a physical fight-or-flight response. There are so many possibilities a min-oriented profession could have (illusions, mind-reading, mind-control, memory erasing, unconsiousness, etc.) but it seems very difficult to incorporate such things into a game. With this in mind, the mesmer may be the lasdt profession to be released since it is so difficult to make perfect. A thief's stealth is easy to incorporate into a game since it just makes it invisible to players. But trying to make a player confused or delusional is harder to do. It is easy to just say your character is confused and it randomly attacks allies (which is what some WoW bosses do... I hate it), but the GW mesmer had something unique in PvP where it could literally frustrate and mentally affect a player.
So will there be a mesmer in GW2? I believe so... is there proof of it? Yes, in books and concept art. Will it be a playable profession? Now thats another question that I cannot answer.
As for the other profession, it stumps me. I have predicted all of professions so far, and I have absolutely no idea about this final profession. People say it may be a mechanic/engineer (it will definitly not be called a gunner or musketeer, that is too specific on a certain type of weapon. Ranger was a fine name since it was specific to its natural theme and ranged playstyle [don't try and argue that they aren't ranged-oriented, cuz they are, even with all their melee weapons]. Plus we already have a sword-pistol profession that is sort of pirate-ish, the thief!), and I could believe it would be a mechanic/enginner. The theme is relevant to the industrial revolution over the past hundred years. I have no idea on the mechanic though. I'm assuming they can build or reinforce constructs and make environmental weapons for their allies. I guess they could make traps too, being the 3rd profession that can do that. They will probably use pistols, rifles, and big heavy two handed weapons. Who knows what their special ability will be. Who knows if they will even have a twist, like the thief's initiative system.
I'm sorry but we have no confirmation on what the last 2 will be. I will quote what I said earlier in the thread.
"I would like to clear something up. When there were only 4 professions left one of the devs came out and gave us some clues as to what they were. He said there will be "AT LEASTONE returning profession, AT LEAST ONE new profession and AT LEAST ONE profession that is similar with a new name".
We were never given any solid numbers about this. We were given the Thief (similar profession with new name) and the Guardian (either new or similar with new name). This means that the next 2 can be either both returning, one new and one returning or one returning and one similar with a new name.
Like I said before, we were never given any solid numbers so we cannot make any solid guesses on what classes are next."
It is confirmed that out of the final two professions, one will be a returning profession and one will be a brand new profession.
Then Arenanet mentioned something about how GW players who played assassins will be happy, and GW players who played mesmer will be happy.
Since the thief was a reconstructed assassin, we know that the profession to make mesmer players happy that will just be a returning profession will not have as many changes.
The next profession will probably be the mesmer, with that name since it is the returning profession (like the elementalist, warrior, necromancer, & ranger), since they seem to be following a pattern with archetypes of profession releases, but then again anet did say they were not following a pattern.
For those of you who say mesmers aren't that popular or whatnot, and for those of you who say mesmers made GW unique from every other MMO, all I can say is none of that really matters for GW2. They are looking for a profession that will work, a profession that is unique in mechanic and lore, and a profession that isn't too complicated to play and very fun to play. They try to cover every possibility (of lore & mechanic) with each profession, and they have yet to have a mind-oriented profession that attacks with the non physical harm. For its theme, we still need the masquerade, joker, clown, magician, bard, or entertainer appearing profession. You might say a necromancer's fear is enough mind-control for GW2, but fear is a physical fight-or-flight response. There are so many possibilities a min-oriented profession could have (illusions, mind-reading, mind-control, memory erasing, unconsiousness, etc.) but it seems very difficult to incorporate such things into a game. With this in mind, the mesmer may be the lasdt profession to be released since it is so difficult to make perfect. A thief's stealth is easy to incorporate into a game since it just makes it invisible to players. But trying to make a player confused or delusional is harder to do. It is easy to just say your character is confused and it randomly attacks allies (which is what some WoW bosses do... I hate it), but the GW mesmer had something unique in PvP where it could literally frustrate and mentally affect a player.
So will there be a mesmer in GW2? I believe so... is there proof of it? Yes, in books and concept art. Will it be a playable profession? Now thats another question that I cannot answer.
As for the other profession, it stumps me. I have predicted all of professions so far, and I have absolutely no idea about this final profession. People say it may be a mechanic/engineer (it will definitly not be called a gunner or musketeer, that is too specific on a certain type of weapon. Ranger was a fine name since it was specific to its natural theme and ranged playstyle [don't try and argue that they aren't ranged-oriented, cuz they are, even with all their melee weapons]. Plus we already have a sword-pistol profession that is sort of pirate-ish, the thief!), and I could believe it would be a mechanic/enginner. The theme is relevant to the industrial revolution over the past hundred years. I have no idea on the mechanic though. I'm assuming they can build or reinforce constructs and make environmental weapons for their allies. I guess they could make traps too, being the 3rd profession that can do that. They will probably use pistols, rifles, and big heavy two handed weapons. Who knows what their special ability will be. Who knows if they will even have a twist, like the thief's initiative system.
I'm sorry but we have no confirmation on what the last 2 will be. I will quote what I said earlier in the thread.
"I would like to clear something up. When there were only 4 professions left one of the devs came out and gave us some clues as to what they were. He said there will be "AT LEASTONE returning profession, AT LEAST ONE new profession and AT LEAST ONE profession that is similar with a new name".
We were never given any solid numbers about this. We were given the Thief (similar profession with new name) and the Guardian (either new or similar with new name). This means that the next 2 can be either both returning, one new and one returning or one returning and one similar with a new name.
Like I said before, we were never given any solid numbers so we cannot make any solid guesses on what classes are next."
Comments
The professions are no longer tied to the human gods, so "covering" has nothing to do with it. And the Guardian did not so much replace the Monk as evolve from the Monk's position within support. And keep in mind that I am not arguing that the Monk will be in the game. I highly doubt that it will. However, it is still a good counter-example for your arguments in favor of the Mesmer.
In so far as this statement comports with what Eric Flannum has said about the development process, I have no argument against it. However, in the article I cited he explicitly states that there is no grand scheme to revealing the professions, and thus no pre-determined pattern.
I understand. I thought the statements I made about the engineer would come off as obviously tongue-in-cheek. Apparently not. In reality I have no doubt my grandfather would make Zhaitan shake like someone's pet iguana.
You apparently do not understand the archetype which we are referring to. You should probably watch an adaptation of The Three Musketeers. I particularly enjoyed the Wishbone version. A Musketeer is not a rogue or a trickster. As an archetype he would be a kind of swashbuckling adventurer with a bit of soldier flavor thrown in. In this way he would be like your barbarian, in that he would be a kind of hybrid between soldiers and adventurers. He would also be like your Engineer in that he would primarily use firearms rather than archaic weapons.
"Whirling Defense" (the only axe skill I am directly aware of) would seem to suggest otherwise. None of the skill videos show the axe leaving the character's hand even once. Are you privy to some sort of information I am not aware of? As a matter of fact, the only skill video depicting an axe being thrown has it coming from the hands of a Warrior (The beginning of "Eviscerate").
I am not entirely sure what you are getting at here. "Serpent Strike," for instance, does not seem to fit into any of these categories.
Are you saying every dagger skill is a ranged skill? Are you sure about that?
I suppose a ranger will throw his sword and have it come back to him like a boomerang? Or perhaps they'll just be really-really-really long?
I think you are displaying a very limited view of what these professions are capable of. I would argue that they are far more versatile than you realize.
Enchantress (Very similar to mesmer as Thief is to ass).
Cannon guy. He rides around on triceratops with big cannons on them. (See the picture of Dino D-Day if you have no clue what that means.)
Or maybe some sort of shooting guy who also lays eplosive traps/mines and the like.
The professions are no longer tied to the human gods, so "covering" has nothing to do with it. And the Guardian did not so much replace the Monk as evolve from the Monk's position within support. And keep in mind that I am not arguing that the Monk will be in the game. I highly doubt that it will. However, it is still a good counter-example for your arguments in favor of the Mesmer.
The monk can't be a good-counter example since it was already confirmed via interview on GW2Guru that monk is not a profession in GW2 (back in November IIRC). But on the other hand there is some fairly overwhelming evidence that mesmer is in: the art, and several references in the two books--including one that says that Queen Jennah and her retinue are mesmers.
And on the topic of the two books and possible professions, there are also several references to 'chirurgeons' in both books and it has started me thinking... As we know, chirurgeons use devices to heal people... And as many people have speculated that there could be an 'engineer' profession that could use devices in combat (mines, turrets, traps, etc.) Could the two be one and the same, might there be a class that specializes in "devices" that can be used offensively, defensively, and restoratively?
Anet actually said that Monks will not return, in any way.
Q: Is there any lore on why certain professions from GW1 do not make it into GW2?
A: Interestingly enough, we were talking about the monk just the other day and we haven't made it official lore yet, we're just talking about it, but there are reasons. How much we're going to reveal is up in the air, really. We looked at what we were doing and said "Wait a minute, this makes sense. Let's see if we can incorporate it." It's a great story.
From http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=337340&postcount=1
Mesmers are not just playable in GW1 but 250 years later mesmer magic is named as one of the three schools of magic (together with necromancer and elementalist magic) in the first book. In the second book several people are named mesmers, including the queen of the humans who does a lot of pretty awesome mesmer-y stuff so we know that mesmers will be in GW2. Whether or not they are playable is different matter. I am convinced about the mesmer being the 3rd scholar profession however.
Back to the whole gunner/musketeer/engineer/mechanic class that may or may not be in it.. In the races of tyria video, the charr that used rifles also had an axehead attached. Does this help anybody's theory?
Hm... That's a lot to take from that one ambiguous statement, but I'll go with it. So Monks are not in Guild Wars 2. What does that prove? That Mesmers will be a playable profession? As I stated before, my purpose in mentioning the Monk was not to argue that it will be in the game, but that the arguments put forward for the Mesmer have dopplegangers in favor of the Monk. In the end, we simply have no idea what they will throw at us.
I think we have SOME idea of what they will throw at us.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Professions_reveal
ANet specifically stated one of the four remaining classes would be a returning profession as you can see in the link provided...if that's not good enough for you I could hunt down the original official tweet but I'd prefer not to. Anyway, there's substantially more evidence in favor of mesmer than rit and especially dervish. It also seems highly unlikely that some fourth school of magic is going to appear in the year or so between the books and GW2, and that the five races could master that profession within that time from a lore perspective...unless the third scholar isn't part of a school of magic, which is also unlikely.
Also, there are so many other instances where ANet confirmed the monk is not returning, such as in this article:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-01-27-guild-wars-2-guardian-replaces-monk
Plus they were quick to correct eurogamer when they misreported that mesmers were not returning. They don't correct the gaming sites when they say that about monks, so the monk scenario is not analagous to the mesmer (or the other potentially returning professions.) We have since learned that the thief is the returning profession with a new name (assassin), which again leaves one returning profession and one more new profession (the mysterious 8th profession.)
"Mod Edit: Despite Eurogamer's conclusion that the Mesmer and Assassin won't be in Guild Wars 2, Anet have not confirmed or denied anything and this article offers no significant revelation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein
Basically all Jon said was "We are not talking about unreleased professions."
The rest is speculation on behalf of the author."
There's the at least one profession that can use guns but not bows yet to be revealed. Don't see mesmer using guns, so that leaves the final adventurer. And since we have one profession that can use rifle but not pistols (warrior) and one that can use pistols but not rifles (thief) I'm guessing we'll get one that can use both.
There are two professions left. One is new and one is returning. Of the returning professions, the options are Mesmer, Ritualist or Dervish. The books were (are being) written alongside the development of the game, with a great deal of back and forth between the author and the developers. So far, the Mesmer has been specifically mentioned in Ghosts of Ascalon. Neither of the other two candidates have been.
You can come at this in as many directions as you like but it remains that there is far more evidence (direct and indirect) for Mesmer's being the final returning class than there is for any other, aside from those which have already been released.
And maintaining that the Monk is just as likely as the Mesmer is simply being argumentative. There will be no dedicated healing class. Without the healing line, that leaves Smiting and Protection for Monks. Guardians already have these skills, at least some of them have made it to the new class with their original name intact (Aegis). Even some of the effects feature the Ankh, the symbol that had been used for Monk skills. So, without Healing, Smiting or Protection, there can be no Monks.
If you want to prop up a straw man, use either the Ritualist of the Dervish. At least with those classes, there's nothing that outright contradicts their inclusion. The fact that there is zero evidence supporting them is immaterial.
Dervish is out. There are no scythes in GW2, and dervish without a scythe becomes a monk.
I would like to clear something up. When there were only 4 professions left one of the devs came out and gave us some clues as to what they were. He said there will be "AT LEAST ONE returning profession, AT LEAST ONE new profession and AT LEAST ONE profession that is similar with a new name".
We were never given any solid numbers about this. We were given the Thief (similar profession with new name) and the Guardian (either new or similar with new name). This means that the next 2 can be either both returning, one new and one returning or one returning and one similar with a new name.
Like I said before, we were never given any solid numbers so we cannot make any solid guesses on what classes are next.
Here are the last 2 classes in guild wars 2 =D
Yes! All of this arguing we have been doing, and it was right in front of us the whole time! What a fool I have been!
The one on the left is the adventurer.
Yes, there's certainly something adventurous about being a hermaphroditic self-impregnating radioactive dinosaur.
... unfortunately, it's the sort of adventurous that has made me severely reconsider whether I should still buy GW2 now. New professions ruined the game.
The one on the left is the adventurer.
Yes, there's certainly something adventurous about being a hermaphroditic self-impregnating radioactive dinosaur.
... unfortunately, it's the sort of adventurous that has made me severely reconsider whether I should still buy GW2 now. New professions ruined the game.
But there are three classes in that screen-shot...
Nah, third thing is a turret.
Engineer confirmed.
no the middle is the tentacle dragon thingy that no one has seen untill NOW11!!!!!!!!!111!!! OMGGG!!!!
the dinosour is the unknown profession
the seashell on the right is the other unknown profession
This ^
Although I think it's safe to rule out dervish and ritualist now as well because of this article, http://games.on.net/article/11863/Exclusive_Eric_Flannum_On_GW2_-_Thieves_Crafting_and_a_new_Video
Eric Flannum says "Finally, in our lore the assassin is very much a profession that has its root in Cantha and since we aren't visiting Cantha in the initial release of Guild Wars 2 we didn't want to draw any lore parallels between this new profession and the assassin."
Based on this, I doubt that the returning profession will not be from Cantha or Elona.
Also, I don't know why the popularity of the mesmer even enters into discussion because GW2 is NOT GW1. Who's to say that ANet didn't look at the mesmer and say "How can we impliment this class differently so that it's more viable in GW2?" As I've said elsewhere, you don't throw the baby out with the bath water.
I guarentee you that ANet did not make decisions based on what and wasn't popular, but based on what could and couldn't fit into their vision for GW2. Again, it's safe to say the expansion classes didn't fit.
The monk didn't fit either, and anyone still saying the monk could return is, like Unlight said, simply being argumentative.
Reposting this link, http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-01-27-guild-wars-2-guardian-replaces-monk
Here's a direct quote: "In Guild Wars 1 we had a Monk. We know people like to play that profession, we also know we're not building a dedicated healer in our game, so we couldn't bring in a character called a Monk into our game and say oh we just totally annulled his healing and took away his connection to the gods," explained Peters.
Popular? Yes. Did it fit? No. Clearly fit > popularity.
As far as I'm concerned people fit into three categories relative to the mesmer, 1) people who don't like mesmers and/or can't play mesmers, 2) people who like the idea of mesmers but not necessarily how they were implemented in game (I fit into this group, even though my main and only is a mesmer) and 3) people who love mesmers.
GW2 is an opportunity for the reality of mesmers in game to be as alluring as the idea of mesmers on paper. A dedicated healer didn't fit in GW2, a mind bending master of illusion can and does (as evidenced by its continued inclusion in the lore.)
One is the Mesmer and the last and new one is unknown. But some think the last one will use guns and be proficient in things like bombs and turrets. It's anyones guess what the last new one will be.
It is confirmed that out of the final two professions, one will be a returning profession and one will be a brand new profession.
Then Arenanet mentioned something about how GW players who played assassins will be happy, and GW players who played mesmer will be happy.
Since the thief was a reconstructed assassin, we know that the profession to make mesmer players happy that will just be a returning profession will not have as many changes.
The next profession will probably be the mesmer, with that name since it is the returning profession (like the elementalist, warrior, necromancer, & ranger), since they seem to be following a pattern with archetypes of profession releases, but then again anet did say they were not following a pattern.
For those of you who say mesmers aren't that popular or whatnot, and for those of you who say mesmers made GW unique from every other MMO, all I can say is none of that really matters for GW2. They are looking for a profession that will work, a profession that is unique in mechanic and lore, and a profession that isn't too complicated to play and very fun to play. They try to cover every possibility (of lore & mechanic) with each profession, and they have yet to have a mind-oriented profession that attacks with non physical harm. For its theme, we still need the masquerade, joker, clown, magician, bard, or entertainer looking profession. We even have the raven spirit and Goddess Lyssa who relate to trickery and charm. You might say a necromancer's fear is enough mind-control for GW2, but fear is a physical fight-or-flight response. Maybe you even think dazing is enough mind-control, but once again that is a physical reaction to harm of the head. There are so many possibilities a mind-oriented profession could have (illusions, mind-reading, mind-control, memory erasing, unconsiousness, etc.) but it seems very difficult to incorporate such things into a game. With this in mind, the mesmer may be the last profession to be released since it is so difficult to make perfect. A thief's stealth is easy to incorporate into a game since it just makes it invisible to players. But trying to make a player confused or delusional is harder to do. It is easy to just say your character is confused and it randomly attacks allies (which is what some WoW bosses do... & I hate it), but the GW mesmer had something unique in PvP where it could literally frustrate and mentally affect a player.
So will there be a mesmer in GW2? I believe so... is there proof of it? Yes, in books and concept art. Will it be a playable profession? Now thats another question that I cannot answer.
As for the other profession, it stumps me. I have predicted all of the released professions so far, and I have absolutely no idea about this final profession. People say it may be a mechanic/engineer (it will definitly not be called a gunner or musketeer, that is too specific on a certain type of weapon. Ranger was a fine name since it was specific to its natural theme and ranged playstyle [don't try and argue that they aren't ranged-oriented, cuz they are, even with all their melee weapons]. Plus we already have a sword-pistol profession that could look pirate-ish, the thief!), and I could believe it. The theme is relevant to the industrial revolution over the past hundreds of years. I have no idea on the mechanic though. I'm assuming they can build or reinforce constructs and make environmental weapons for their allies such as gadgets and gizmos. I guess they could make traps too, being the 3rd profession that can do that. They will probably use pistols, rifles, and big heavy two handed weapons. Who knows what their special ability will be. Who knows if they will even have a twist, like the thief's initiative system.
"Many have eyes, but few have seen." - Goddess Lyssa
I'm sorry but we have no confirmation on what the last 2 will be. I will quote what I said earlier in the thread.
"I would like to clear something up. When there were only 4 professions left one of the devs came out and gave us some clues as to what they were. He said there will be "AT LEAST ONE returning profession, AT LEAST ONE new profession and AT LEAST ONE profession that is similar with a new name".
We were never given any solid numbers about this. We were given the Thief (similar profession with new name) and the Guardian (either new or similar with new name). This means that the next 2 can be either both returning, one new and one returning or one returning and one similar with a new name.
Like I said before, we were never given any solid numbers so we cannot make any solid guesses on what classes are next."
I'm sorry but I am right.
http://www.arena.net/blog/link-roundup-the-guardian#more-4056
After the guardian was released, it was confirmed that it was the new profession, and that there was going to be another new profession.
It says exactly:
"The guardian is the first Guild Wars 2 profession that did not appear in the original Guild Wars game - but not the last!"
So how about you get over it, open up your mind, and actually get something out of what I'm saying.
"Many have eyes, but few have seen." - Goddess Lyssa
My money's on an engineer. The asura's need something for their golems, the charr something for their battle machines. Seems to fit perfectly.
You know it, the best way to realize your dreams is waking up and start moving, never lose hope and always keep up.