That's exactly what it did to me. As a "casual" gamer I refuse to wait in a queue 30 minutes to run an hour and a half instance. If I can't see the content in 30 minutes to an hour then I simply won't see it. The funny thing is that of the 11 irw people I know who played WoW, 10 have left the game since Cataclysm came out. While I make no claim that this is a representative figure, we're a reasonably representative cross section of gamers (from casual achievement seekers to three night a week raiders) - we're all sick of WoW. Cataclysm indeed . . .
And the PUGs in Cata - they actually pushed me over the edge. The random dungeon finder and horrible PUGs led me to cancel my sub to WoW. I tried Rift and can't even give it a real try. Grind more toons and crafting talents - pffft - just a waste of time. So I'm done with MMOs until SW:TOR comes out.
High hopes for SW:TOR and here's hoping SOE has nothing to do with it.
I definitely don't think WoW ruined other games for me, MMO or otherwise. However......I DO think WoW ruined other MMO communities for me. I can't get away from the damn game. Some moron has to mention it in general chat in EVERY damn game I play. It has inspired me to just turn OFF general chat, which....has ruined a sense of community for me in a lot of games.
I definitely don't think WoW ruined other games for me, MMO or otherwise. However......I DO think WoW ruined other MMO communities for me. I can't get away from the damn game. Some moron has to mention it in general chat in EVERY damn game I play. It has inspired me to just turn OFF general chat, which....has ruined a sense of community for me in a lot of games.
lol Yeah, been there done that.
Every beta I've tried, WoW gets brought up, /sigh
Yes, betas are the WORST. Unfortunately though....it seems to be a problem that often lingers beyond beta as well. /sigh indeed
WoW didnt ruin other games for me, it made me change the way I play. Up until WoW, and in WoW, I was teh supah hardcore raider. Ran my own competative raiding guild with a few server firsts on my belt. But I learned from that community, and from that game, that that play style is not the way to enjoy the entertainment venue. Thats the way to create a second job, to put competition above freiendships, to put game above life.
What WoW did is turn me from a hardcore raider into a carefree casual carebear. Oh yeah, and I RP more now too. I actually thank WoW for allowing me to wake up from the addiction. Two job promotions and loving life now, as well as playing other games and having a ton of fun with friends and family. And the best part is I'm no longer Capt. Dick to my guild members.
And gear score doesn't exist, really it doesn't, all that matters is if you look good while your kicking thier ass.
Nope, played WoW beta and part of the first free month, but just couldn't stick with it. Now it did seem to ruin other MMO developers ideas of how much profit they should expect :-p
I started playing WoW back in 06 right before TBC was released. Never in my life have i ever had an experience playing a game like WoW. Somthing about it was so amazing , so rich in atmosphere ! Made freinds with who i still am freinds with now. For 4 years i was addicted to WoW...honestly i still am , but not like before. Now i just crave WoW pvp.
To this day i have yet found another game to take its place. Only game to ever come close is WAR...The RvR and scenrios are extremly addicting. Unfortunatly i started playing when the games population is crap.
So i will say this..... wow hasnt ruined my gaming , but it sure did ruin playing other mmorpg's
I want to feel that experience again with somthing new , but fact of the matter is..it will never happen.
Its kinda when you get buzzed for the first time, wether it be from alcohol or whatever your preference. Its great so you try to get there again , but never happpens cause you already been there.
I'm going to take this opportunity to pontificate needlessly, as is my custom on these forums.
You can probably tell, both because of your own uncertainty and the skepticism with which other replies have regarded your question, that something is a bit off with the idea you've suggested. It doesn't sound like you really believe that WoW ruined your experiences in other games.
By the same token, your experiences are genuine. There's definitely something there. And it's definitely related in some way, whether you think it big or small, to your experience playing WoW. I think you alluded to what you think it really is. You mention "other games" because you've probably read posts from many other people reporting the same phenomenon that you're experiencing. I think you believe, as is my personal opinion here, that it's less a matter of WoW and more a matter of playing any game in the way you did. I think it's specifically a problem with playing modern endgame-oriented MMORPG's with a sufficient level of "commitment" for many months.
Not to sound cynical, but these games are designed to "engage" players in perhaps the most insidious way. The modern concept of "endgame" requires that rewards be doled out slowly for prolonged, repetitive slogs through the same content. This is the impetus behind random drop tables, various item trade "currencies", and rare, high-end crafting materials. For a time, playing this metagame is fun. However, you eventually reach a point where content ceases to be enjoyable. You continue to play, though, even after the faucet of fun doles out only a few miserly drops every day.
You do so for many reasons. To start with, these games have communities which are oriented around revering those who excel in the endgame. The most successful of such players are regarded as gods of a kind, and many players strongly desire this social standing. You also continue to play because you've formed social connections with other players. You've made friends in the game, quite simply. Finally, you remain in the game because of inertia. The grind routine, whether it be dungeons, player versus player, or raiding, becomes a solid fixture of your realworld routine.
And so, long after the fun has stopped, you are still playing, hoping the next content release will tide you over. Eventually, though, boredom wins. You quit.
After you quit, a realization sets in. Though you are now freed of this timesuck, you find yourself at a loss as to what to replace it with. You know then that jumping into another endgame grind will eventually result in the same misery; you are further reluctant to engage another similar MMORPG because you are loathe to truly abandon your progress in the previous one. Moreover, being numbed to any sense of true fun in gaming by the tedium of the endgame grind in your previous "game," you can't imagine other games, even those entirely different in type, being much more fun. On a more practical note, you also haven't cultivated new interests outside of gaming, something which takes work in itself, for the last few months because your spare time was poured into this hole.
There are a few outcomes from here. The most likely one is that you wander listlessly for a time. You let the tolerance you've developed for this nonsense wear off. Eventually, some shiny new feature in your old online haunt seems "worth resubscribing for." You join again, get sucked into the same repetitive endgame grind, and months later, again unsubscribe in frustration. It's not at all uncommon for many players to repeat this cycle endlessly.
I personally recommend you try to break the cycle entirely, though. Get a hobby. Play a non-MMO game. Or if you do play a MMO, play one without any thought of the endgame in mind, enjoying only the best parts and then abandoning it. Heck, if you really want an adventure, find an emotionally-disturbed girlfriend off Craig's List.
If you want to try the advanced version, though . . . . make really long posts on MMORPG forums.
I still enjoy playing a lot of games - RPGs, RTS, FPS, action and puzzles and the odd fighter like Mortal Kombat and Tekken :P
I don't like MMOs because they don't give me the WoW feeling ^ So I guess it ruined all MMOs for me
And yet, here you are, hanging around a site dedicated to MMORPG's in general and not only WOW?
Well, I came to this site to find out about other MMOs. I didn't like any of them but I kinda stuck around just for the sake of posting. I am not interested in playing any MMO tbh.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I'm going to take this opportunity to pontificate needlessly, as is my custom on these forums.
You can probably tell, both because of your own uncertainty and the skepticism with which other replies have regarded your question, that something is a bit off with the idea you've suggested. It doesn't sound like you really believe that WoW ruined your experiences in other games.
By the same token, your experiences are genuine. There's definitely something there. And it's definitely related in some way, whether you think it big or small, to your experience playing WoW. I think you alluded to what you think it really is. You mention "other games" because you've probably read posts from many other people reporting the same phenomenon that you're experiencing. I think you believe, as is my personal opinion here, that it's less a matter of WoW and more a matter of playing any game in the way you did. I think it's specifically a problem with playing modern endgame-oriented MMORPG's with a sufficient level of "commitment" for many months.
Not to sound cynical, but these games are designed to "engage" players in perhaps the most insidious way. The modern concept of "endgame" requires that rewards be doled out slowly for prolonged, repetitive slogs through the same content. This is the impetus behind random drop tables, various item trade "currencies", and rare, high-end crafting materials. For a time, playing this metagame is fun. However, you eventually reach a point where content ceases to be enjoyable. You continue to play, though, even after the faucet of fun doles out only a few miserly drops every day.
You do so for many reasons. To start with, these games have communities which are oriented around revering those who excel in the endgame. The most successful of such players are regarded as gods of a kind, and many players strongly desire this social standing. You also continue to play because you've formed social connections with other players. You've made friends in the game, quite simply. Finally, you remain in the game because of inertia. The grind routine, whether it be dungeons, player versus player, or raiding, becomes a solid fixture of your realworld routine.
And so, long after the fun has stopped, you are still playing, hoping the next content release will tide you over. Eventually, though, boredom wins. You quit.
After you quit, a realization sets in. Though you are now freed of this timesuck, you find yourself at a loss as to what to replace it with. You know then that jumping into another endgame grind will eventually result in the same misery; you are further reluctant to engage another similar MMORPG because you are loathe to truly abandon your progress in the previous one. Moreover, being numbed to any sense of true fun in gaming by the tedium of the endgame grind in your previous "game," you can't imagine other games, even those entirely different in type, being much more fun. On a more practical note, you also haven't cultivated new interests outside of gaming, something which takes work in itself, for the last few months because your spare time was poured into this hole.
There are a few outcomes from here. The most likely one is that you wander listlessly for a time. You let the tolerance you've developed for this nonsense wear off. Eventually, some shiny new feature in your old online haunt seems "worth resubscribing for." You join again, get sucked into the same repetitive endgame grind, and months later, again unsubscribe in frustration. It's not at all uncommon for many players to repeat this cycle endlessly.
I personally recommend you try to break the cycle entirely, though. Get a hobby. Play a non-MMO game. Or if you do play a MMO, play one without any thought of the endgame in mind, enjoying only the best parts and then abandoning it. Heck, if you really want an adventure, find an emotionally-disturbed girlfriend off Craig's List.
If you want to try the advanced version, though . . . . make really long posts on MMORPG forums.
- Quack
One of the finer posts I have ever read on ANY forum, including this and many others.
Such a perfect and accurate assessment (at least for me). I appreciate it. I actually learned some things about myself while reading this. Are you a psychologist? lol Anyway.....good stuff, mate.
In all honesty I can't tell if it was WoW or just the change in times that ruined my game play.
I know that early on in DAoC I felt the mix was right and as time passed the addition of expansions started changing my game play habits. One expansion that effected me the most in PvP was grind for your PvP gear introduced in Trial of Atlantis. This just ruined the value of going to RvR because you had to grind the gear to be competitive or suffer defeat. My play time was limited and I spent more time grinding trials and less time having all out wars so I moved to the PvE server when Lancelot died a horrible death for lack of players.
As time passed the introduction of instance runs made group adventuring a thing of the past. No one wanted to run around epic zones and do these insane quests anymore so I started logging in only on raid night. As time passed more and the introduction of LoM I found the population of even the PvE server declined to the point no one was on. One Saturday night in 2008 I did a /who all and it showed 43 online! Out of those 43 maybe 15 are real players and the rest are bots. OMG the game is dead!
In the following month there was so little activity that I let the subscription run out.
I started playing the month before SI was released and from the moment they decided to capture more players around 2004 instead of keeping the 200K subs they had the game took a turn from insane fun RvR to insane boredom PvE. The decision to make another game Warhammer instead of fixing up this one was probably a bad choice. DAoC was rock solid fun from 2002 to 2005.
I'm going to take this opportunity to pontificate needlessly, as is my custom on these forums.
You can probably tell, both because of your own uncertainty and the skepticism with which other replies have regarded your question, that something is a bit off with the idea you've suggested. It doesn't sound like you really believe that WoW ruined your experiences in other games.
By the same token, your experiences are genuine. There's definitely something there. And it's definitely related in some way, whether you think it big or small, to your experience playing WoW. I think you alluded to what you think it really is. You mention "other games" because you've probably read posts from many other people reporting the same phenomenon that you're experiencing. I think you believe, as is my personal opinion here, that it's less a matter of WoW and more a matter of playing any game in the way you did. I think it's specifically a problem with playing modern endgame-oriented MMORPG's with a sufficient level of "commitment" for many months.
Not to sound cynical, but these games are designed to "engage" players in perhaps the most insidious way. The modern concept of "endgame" requires that rewards be doled out slowly for prolonged, repetitive slogs through the same content. This is the impetus behind random drop tables, various item trade "currencies", and rare, high-end crafting materials. For a time, playing this metagame is fun. However, you eventually reach a point where content ceases to be enjoyable. You continue to play, though, even after the faucet of fun doles out only a few miserly drops every day.
You do so for many reasons. To start with, these games have communities which are oriented around revering those who excel in the endgame. The most successful of such players are regarded as gods of a kind, and many players strongly desire this social standing. You also continue to play because you've formed social connections with other players. You've made friends in the game, quite simply. Finally, you remain in the game because of inertia. The grind routine, whether it be dungeons, player versus player, or raiding, becomes a solid fixture of your realworld routine.
And so, long after the fun has stopped, you are still playing, hoping the next content release will tide you over. Eventually, though, boredom wins. You quit.
After you quit, a realization sets in. Though you are now freed of this timesuck, you find yourself at a loss as to what to replace it with. You know then that jumping into another endgame grind will eventually result in the same misery; you are further reluctant to engage another similar MMORPG because you are loathe to truly abandon your progress in the previous one. Moreover, being numbed to any sense of true fun in gaming by the tedium of the endgame grind in your previous "game," you can't imagine other games, even those entirely different in type, being much more fun. On a more practical note, you also haven't cultivated new interests outside of gaming, something which takes work in itself, for the last few months because your spare time was poured into this hole.
There are a few outcomes from here. The most likely one is that you wander listlessly for a time. You let the tolerance you've developed for this nonsense wear off. Eventually, some shiny new feature in your old online haunt seems "worth resubscribing for." You join again, get sucked into the same repetitive endgame grind, and months later, again unsubscribe in frustration. It's not at all uncommon for many players to repeat this cycle endlessly.
I personally recommend you try to break the cycle entirely, though. Get a hobby. Play a non-MMO game. Or if you do play a MMO, play one without any thought of the endgame in mind, enjoying only the best parts and then abandoning it. Heck, if you really want an adventure, find an emotionally-disturbed girlfriend off Craig's List.
If you want to try the advanced version, though . . . . make really long posts on MMORPG forums.
- Quack
One of the finer posts I have ever read on ANY forum, including this and many others.
Such a perfect and accurate assessment (at least for me). I appreciate it. I actually learned some things about myself while reading this. Are you a psychologist? lol Anyway.....good stuff, mate.
Agree and hes spot on, especially with the inertia comment. Doing it because its part of the schedule...out of habit.
No. WOW actually made me go out and look for other MMO's to play. I liked it at first but over time I grew to really hate it for a variety of reasons starting with trade chat and spreading into some of the gamer's I'd meet. I guess you can say it was my gateway into the online gaming hobby. Never been happier with the hobby since leaving WoW behind.
There is a huge market of people from EQ, UO, DAOC, SWG, FFX!, etc. that is probably over 1.5 million that are dying for a game that merges the best of both worlds. A great mix of themepark/sandbox.
Ahh! That's it!! WoW is a 'themepark' game and I've been looking for a 'sandbox' to play in. Fief5, I believe you've just provided me with some very valuable information.
See, I enjoy WoW for the crafting, and I love economics. Grinding is fun (Diablo II fan), and grouping... well, I never did get into grouping, but that's the topic of a different thread, I reckon. My point is, I want a game in which I can collect resources, craft, loot, and support other people who would rather quest. But the only thing I know to turn to is WoW. And WoW just doesn't do it for me.
WoW didn't ruin MMOing or gaming for me... it just teased me. Perhaps I ought to find a game that's built more around the sandbox concept. Thanks, Fief5!
Comments
That's exactly what it did to me. As a "casual" gamer I refuse to wait in a queue 30 minutes to run an hour and a half instance. If I can't see the content in 30 minutes to an hour then I simply won't see it. The funny thing is that of the 11 irw people I know who played WoW, 10 have left the game since Cataclysm came out. While I make no claim that this is a representative figure, we're a reasonably representative cross section of gamers (from casual achievement seekers to three night a week raiders) - we're all sick of WoW. Cataclysm indeed . . .
And the PUGs in Cata - they actually pushed me over the edge. The random dungeon finder and horrible PUGs led me to cancel my sub to WoW. I tried Rift and can't even give it a real try. Grind more toons and crafting talents - pffft - just a waste of time. So I'm done with MMOs until SW:TOR comes out.
High hopes for SW:TOR and here's hoping SOE has nothing to do with it.
lol Yeah, been there done that.
Every beta I've tried, WoW gets brought up, /sigh
Cheers, I am looking forward to GW2 the same way.
Yes, betas are the WORST. Unfortunately though....it seems to be a problem that often lingers beyond beta as well. /sigh indeed
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
WoW didnt ruin other games for me, it made me change the way I play. Up until WoW, and in WoW, I was teh supah hardcore raider. Ran my own competative raiding guild with a few server firsts on my belt. But I learned from that community, and from that game, that that play style is not the way to enjoy the entertainment venue. Thats the way to create a second job, to put competition above freiendships, to put game above life.
What WoW did is turn me from a hardcore raider into a carefree casual carebear. Oh yeah, and I RP more now too. I actually thank WoW for allowing me to wake up from the addiction. Two job promotions and loving life now, as well as playing other games and having a ton of fun with friends and family. And the best part is I'm no longer Capt. Dick to my guild members.
And gear score doesn't exist, really it doesn't, all that matters is if you look good while your kicking thier ass.
Nope, played WoW beta and part of the first free month, but just couldn't stick with it. Now it did seem to ruin other MMO developers ideas of how much profit they should expect :-p
I started playing WoW back in 06 right before TBC was released. Never in my life have i ever had an experience playing a game like WoW. Somthing about it was so amazing , so rich in atmosphere ! Made freinds with who i still am freinds with now. For 4 years i was addicted to WoW...honestly i still am , but not like before. Now i just crave WoW pvp.
To this day i have yet found another game to take its place. Only game to ever come close is WAR...The RvR and scenrios are extremly addicting. Unfortunatly i started playing when the games population is crap.
So i will say this..... wow hasnt ruined my gaming , but it sure did ruin playing other mmorpg's
I want to feel that experience again with somthing new , but fact of the matter is..it will never happen.
Its kinda when you get buzzed for the first time, wether it be from alcohol or whatever your preference. Its great so you try to get there again , but never happpens cause you already been there.
said like a true junky..lol !
Ok people don´t go throwing a hissy fit , I really tried to refrain from posting .
But Yes WoW cataclysme ruined a lot of MMO for me , with there quest train wreck
Not WoW itself , before cataclysme I had no problems playing other MMO .
Or trying other MMO , now I get to a quest I like want to log off , and more often then not I do it .
So am on a long long break , till I get that out of my system .
Dear Mister OP,
I'm going to take this opportunity to pontificate needlessly, as is my custom on these forums.
You can probably tell, both because of your own uncertainty and the skepticism with which other replies have regarded your question, that something is a bit off with the idea you've suggested. It doesn't sound like you really believe that WoW ruined your experiences in other games.
By the same token, your experiences are genuine. There's definitely something there. And it's definitely related in some way, whether you think it big or small, to your experience playing WoW. I think you alluded to what you think it really is. You mention "other games" because you've probably read posts from many other people reporting the same phenomenon that you're experiencing. I think you believe, as is my personal opinion here, that it's less a matter of WoW and more a matter of playing any game in the way you did. I think it's specifically a problem with playing modern endgame-oriented MMORPG's with a sufficient level of "commitment" for many months.
Not to sound cynical, but these games are designed to "engage" players in perhaps the most insidious way. The modern concept of "endgame" requires that rewards be doled out slowly for prolonged, repetitive slogs through the same content. This is the impetus behind random drop tables, various item trade "currencies", and rare, high-end crafting materials. For a time, playing this metagame is fun. However, you eventually reach a point where content ceases to be enjoyable. You continue to play, though, even after the faucet of fun doles out only a few miserly drops every day.
You do so for many reasons. To start with, these games have communities which are oriented around revering those who excel in the endgame. The most successful of such players are regarded as gods of a kind, and many players strongly desire this social standing. You also continue to play because you've formed social connections with other players. You've made friends in the game, quite simply. Finally, you remain in the game because of inertia. The grind routine, whether it be dungeons, player versus player, or raiding, becomes a solid fixture of your realworld routine.
And so, long after the fun has stopped, you are still playing, hoping the next content release will tide you over. Eventually, though, boredom wins. You quit.
After you quit, a realization sets in. Though you are now freed of this timesuck, you find yourself at a loss as to what to replace it with. You know then that jumping into another endgame grind will eventually result in the same misery; you are further reluctant to engage another similar MMORPG because you are loathe to truly abandon your progress in the previous one. Moreover, being numbed to any sense of true fun in gaming by the tedium of the endgame grind in your previous "game," you can't imagine other games, even those entirely different in type, being much more fun. On a more practical note, you also haven't cultivated new interests outside of gaming, something which takes work in itself, for the last few months because your spare time was poured into this hole.
There are a few outcomes from here. The most likely one is that you wander listlessly for a time. You let the tolerance you've developed for this nonsense wear off. Eventually, some shiny new feature in your old online haunt seems "worth resubscribing for." You join again, get sucked into the same repetitive endgame grind, and months later, again unsubscribe in frustration. It's not at all uncommon for many players to repeat this cycle endlessly.
I personally recommend you try to break the cycle entirely, though. Get a hobby. Play a non-MMO game. Or if you do play a MMO, play one without any thought of the endgame in mind, enjoying only the best parts and then abandoning it. Heck, if you really want an adventure, find an emotionally-disturbed girlfriend off Craig's List.
If you want to try the advanced version, though . . . . make really long posts on MMORPG forums.
- Quack
WoW didnt ruin anything for me. Im not a fan of the game, but Im not bothered with it either.
The only annoying part are the players who keep bitching about WoW in every MMO I play.
Well, I came to this site to find out about other MMOs. I didn't like any of them but I kinda stuck around just for the sake of posting. I am not interested in playing any MMO tbh.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I never really could get into WoW
which i find ironic.. seeing as i enjoyed world of warcraft (1 , 2, and 3) and both starcrafts and all the diablo's
I really enjoyed the full spectrum of blizzard games.. just didn't like the MMO lol
wow has destroyed my ability to play any other game
i have tried every mmo on the market and always end up back at wow
why?
dungeons are well scripted (best)
group mechanics if played right are the best
smooth game play - unfortunately with dated graphics
in my opinion the agro circles of mobs and abilty to use that in pulls is superior to any other game by a long shot
these are all pve points, i am pve player
gonna try rift soon, see how that goes :P
threat everywhere
One of the finer posts I have ever read on ANY forum, including this and many others.
Such a perfect and accurate assessment (at least for me). I appreciate it. I actually learned some things about myself while reading this. Are you a psychologist? lol Anyway.....good stuff, mate.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
no way, get an iphone and experience real gaming on that. Or play the superb Mario Galaxy. That is a masterclass in gaming.
In all honesty I can't tell if it was WoW or just the change in times that ruined my game play.
I know that early on in DAoC I felt the mix was right and as time passed the addition of expansions started changing my game play habits. One expansion that effected me the most in PvP was grind for your PvP gear introduced in Trial of Atlantis. This just ruined the value of going to RvR because you had to grind the gear to be competitive or suffer defeat. My play time was limited and I spent more time grinding trials and less time having all out wars so I moved to the PvE server when Lancelot died a horrible death for lack of players.
As time passed the introduction of instance runs made group adventuring a thing of the past. No one wanted to run around epic zones and do these insane quests anymore so I started logging in only on raid night. As time passed more and the introduction of LoM I found the population of even the PvE server declined to the point no one was on. One Saturday night in 2008 I did a /who all and it showed 43 online! Out of those 43 maybe 15 are real players and the rest are bots. OMG the game is dead!
In the following month there was so little activity that I let the subscription run out.
I started playing the month before SI was released and from the moment they decided to capture more players around 2004 instead of keeping the 200K subs they had the game took a turn from insane fun RvR to insane boredom PvE. The decision to make another game Warhammer instead of fixing up this one was probably a bad choice. DAoC was rock solid fun from 2002 to 2005.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
Agree and hes spot on, especially with the inertia comment. Doing it because its part of the schedule...out of habit.
No. WOW actually made me go out and look for other MMO's to play. I liked it at first but over time I grew to really hate it for a variety of reasons starting with trade chat and spreading into some of the gamer's I'd meet. I guess you can say it was my gateway into the online gaming hobby. Never been happier with the hobby since leaving WoW behind.
Ahh! That's it!! WoW is a 'themepark' game and I've been looking for a 'sandbox' to play in. Fief5, I believe you've just provided me with some very valuable information.
See, I enjoy WoW for the crafting, and I love economics. Grinding is fun (Diablo II fan), and grouping... well, I never did get into grouping, but that's the topic of a different thread, I reckon. My point is, I want a game in which I can collect resources, craft, loot, and support other people who would rather quest. But the only thing I know to turn to is WoW. And WoW just doesn't do it for me.
WoW didn't ruin MMOing or gaming for me... it just teased me. Perhaps I ought to find a game that's built more around the sandbox concept. Thanks, Fief5!