Funcom won't deliver

Divinefairy

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by Divinefairy

Dismissing reality? I think we are both distorting reality hear, I have downplayed a game that was given rave reviews when computers had a gig of hard drive space, and you have praised it saying that because I have ignored that single title, I must know nothing of the gaming industry.  Your overplaying, I'm underplaying, I think the company sucks, you think it's funtastic.  I don't think we're going to find a middle ground.

I think it's clear that there''ll apparently be no middle ground since you're downplaying everything FC did.

While I don't care much for the company itself - a company must be doing something extraordinary for an extensive period of time to really be on my radar - it's objective common sense to acknowledge that TLJ and Dreamfall were far from fails, they were both good games and received as such, even if TLJ was received better than Dreamfall, Dreamfall was still a good game as a 75% critics review and 87% user review on metacritic show.

Even more, while AO and AoC both had disastrous launches, the MMO's in themselves are solid, good games, with if I look at the current crop of MMO's AoC easily ranking in the top 10 of current MMO's despite its start up flaws.

You try to downplay it because of your personal experiences with AoC and your general disposition towards Funcom, which is your right. Me, I try to stick closer to available facts and an objective view of them

See, right there.  Now your overplaying my downplaying. I downplayed one of their games since I never played it and it is over a decade old, it deserves to be downplayed.  I hardly downplayed everything FC did, how could I downplay AoC? It's already in the negatives.  Final Fantasy VII was a freaking awesome game, but I don't say Square is going to pump out awesome games because of it, its OLD!  

If you consider "generally favourable reviews" to mean it was an bang up job then fine, I guess the Matrix Reloaded is a fantabulous sequel.

Annyways, I guess we agree to disagree on the prospects of this title.  I think it is made by a company with a history of producing sub-par games, with say 1.5 exception.   

If everyone wants to place their faith in a man whose claim to fame is one awesome game from the 90's with a not as amazing  sequel made much more recently, and an MMO that took years to get on it's feet, now working for a company with a history of poor implementation and game production. Enjoy.

patrikd23

Game is gonna rock and Funcom will deliver, it gonna be great when all the trolls and haters will eat their own text

Caldrin

Funcom will deliver all theri MMOs have been great... Sure the launch for both AO and AOC where not good at all but most MMOS dont launch very well...

 

I really enjoyed AO back in the day and Played AOC for most of last year and had a blast this game also looks to be shaping up to be realyl good

 

OH and one thing i wish they would get on and do is update the engine for AO, id go back to playing that no problem at all with a fully updated engine

 

 

 

MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by Divinefairy

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

See, right there.  Now your overplaying my downplaying. I downplayed one of their games since I never played it and it is over a decade old, it deserves to be downplayed.  I hardly downplayed everything FC did, how could I downplay AoC? It's already in the negatives.  Final Fantasy VII was a freaking awesome game, but I don't say Square is going to pump out awesome games because of it, its OLD!  

You seem not to get it: YOU were the one talking about a 'streak' of fails. Meaning more than AoC, meaning you included other games of FC, because 1 game is NOT a streak. I pointed you towards the 4 latest FC games that were released: you're talking bullshit when you say 'ooh, I don't want to include a decade old game', because clearly you include AO, a game that IS a decade year old. 'everything FC did'? Lol. You weren't even aware of TLJ and Dreamfall, and have you even played AO?

Annyways, I guess we agree to disagree on the prospects of this title.  I think it is made by a company with a history of producing sub-par games, with say 1.5 exception.   

Not really, it's more like FC has a history of producing good solid games, only with bad launches for their MMO's.

If everyone wants to place their faith in a man whose claim to fame is one awesome game from the 90's with a not as amazing  sequel made much more recently, and an MMO that took years to get on it's feet, now working for a company with a history of poor implementation and game production. Enjoy.

Thanks, and same to you: if you want to dismiss another game based solely on the bad experiences you've had with 1 of their games, then feel free and enjoy looking elsewhere for an MMO that provides any fun for you. Enjoy it 

MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by Caldrin

OH and one thing i wish they would get on and do is update the engine for AO, id go back to playing that no problem at all with a fully updated engine

I read somewhere that they're working on it, but no idea how far they are with it. Could probably take some time.

 

Originally posted by Paradigm68

Based on the whole AoC thing I ignore anything FC has to say. Their constant spin, marketing and propaganda was particularly obnoxious considering how off the mark from the truth they were.

Still, if a game is good, I'll play it. But no way I'll touch it unless I get a free trial around 6 mos to a year after launch.  FC doesn't get a single dollar until AFTER they prove to me the game is good.

Seems like a sound approach.

I don't have the bad experiences others had with AoC, but I wasn't paying that much attention to any prerelease hyping so also no failed expectations from my side. But if I had bad experiences with a game from a company, this is the kind of approach I'd take myself, taking a watchful 'wait and see' stance.

ThomasN7

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

I don't know about AO, but regarding AoC, the launch was bad but the game itself was great fun. They dared to experiment further with features and mechanics than a lot of other AAA MMO's. I like that, and seeing how they're going for classless and levelless system, different combat mechanics and a theme/setting that isn't scifi/fantasy like 90% of the MMO's, it looks like they're not afraid to break away from the norm as seen in AAA MMO's.

 

AoC had some good improvements in features and engaging gameplay. The biggest problem was that they rushed the game out of the door, its launch was a year too early, I'm guessing it was because of financial issues.

So that's imo the biggest concern, they should be able to take the time to finish the game up to acceptable polish standards in order to avoid an AoC type of launch.

 

Seeing how communication is going so far regarding TSW compared with the testosterone fueled hype around AoC, it looks like the approach for TSw is more no nonsense style.

 How does a horrible launch equate into great fun ? This I have to hear.

Palebane

Originally posted by Paradigm68

Based on the whole AoC thing I ignore anything FC has to say. Their constant spin, marketing and propaganda was particularly obnoxious considering how off the mark from the truth they were.

Still, if a game is good, I'll play it. But no way I'll touch it unless I get a free trial around 6 mos to a year after launch.  FC doesn't get a single dollar until AFTER they prove to me the game is good.

I agree. I'm going to wait for reviews and player feedback. 

dougmysticey

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

I don't know about AO, but regarding AoC, the launch was bad but the game itself was great fun. They dared to experiment further with features and mechanics than a lot of other AAA MMO's. I like that, and seeing how they're going for classless and levelless system, different combat mechanics and a theme/setting that isn't scifi/fantasy like 90% of the MMO's, it looks like they're not afraid to break away from the norm as seen in AAA MMO's.

 

AoC had some good improvements in features and engaging gameplay. The biggest problem was that they rushed the game out of the door, its launch was a year too early, I'm guessing it was because of financial issues.

So that's imo the biggest concern, they should be able to take the time to finish the game up to acceptable polish standards in order to avoid an AoC type of launch.

 

Seeing how communication is going so far regarding TSW compared with the testosterone fueled hype around AoC, it looks like the approach for TSw is more no nonsense style.

 How does a horrible launch equate into great fun ? This I have to hear.

 I can't speak for the poster of this but I can understand the statement. AOC was a fun game from launch and the first 20 levels were great. Most of, not all, but most of the glaring issues with launch became WAY more apparent after leaving the 20 level Tortage experience. I for one did not experience a lot of the issues people had though they were clearly impacting many.  Also, from the beginning the combat was fun and refreshing, world was fantastic to look at, story lines were good. So while the launch was challenged and aweful for many the game was also fun and engaging. I know that sounds strange but as I said, I understand the comment, and mostly agree with that.

To Funcom's credit they have turned AOC into a good game now. I hope they learned from AO and AOC with TSW.

MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by SaintViktor

 How does a horrible launch equate into great fun ? This I have to hear.

Ok, let's see:

- No ultrahigh prelease expectations or following the hype = no crushed expectations or deep pit of disappointment and despair after launch

- gamecrashes and a few bugs were annoying and kept being annoying while they were there, but weren't gamebreaking to me, just irritations

- great atmosphere, to me they captured the essence of Robert E Howard's book in various quests, especially since I also encountered the Cthulhu mythos references ingame that Howard's books also refer to (eg bad dreams, nightmares, insanity lurking around the corner when a character was confronted with supernatural horrors, especially that last one is a trademark of Lovecraft's stories)

- some of the best if not the best musical score I've heard in an MMO. Captured 100% perfectly the atmosphere and vibe of Conan's Hyborea.

- great combat, most engaging and visceral melee combat I've experienced in an MMO: the animation, the directional combat and positioning, the fatalities, all together provided a type of melee combat that didn't get boring as fast as in other MMO's.

- Interesting setting, low fantasy, no elves, dwarves etc. Not totally my thing, but it led to a different feel and MMO world especially with the high quality graphics.

- interesting questing and leveling experience. More interesting in the lower levels, but still one of the least grindy leveling experiences I've had in an MMO.

- absolutely awesome community, hell of a lot of all kinds of creative events, RP and otherwise, and open world PvP combat that reminded me of the best open world pvp times in WoW.

 

 Overall, a great and active server community, immersive and fitting atmosphere, engaging combat, non-boring leveling and high quality graphics and music made it easy to shrug away the annoyances of bugs and crashes that were irritations in the first 2 or 3 months.

But then again, I wasn't burdened with any superhigh expectations that got crushed after launch with the grudge that often rose with it. This left me with looking more clearly to what the game actually had to offer to me, and for me, the list of those pros was a pretty good one, larger than the list of cons.

 

Originally posted by dougmysticey

I for one did not experience a lot of the issues people had though they were clearly impacting many.  Also, from the beginning the combat was fun and refreshing, world was fantastic to look at, story lines were good. So while the launch was challenged and aweful for many the game was also fun and engaging. I know that sounds strange but as I said, I understand the comment, and mostly agree with that.

To Funcom's credit they have turned AOC into a good game now. I hope they learned from AO and AOC with TSW.

I share the same sentiment.

I did have a lot of the bug issues people had, but for the rest my experiences regarding the combat, world and questing were the same.

Divinefairy

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by Divinefairy

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

See, right there.  Now your overplaying my downplaying. I downplayed one of their games since I never played it and it is over a decade old, it deserves to be downplayed.  I hardly downplayed everything FC did, how could I downplay AoC? It's already in the negatives.  Final Fantasy VII was a freaking awesome game, but I don't say Square is going to pump out awesome games because of it, its OLD!  

You seem not to get it: YOU were the one talking about a 'streak' of fails. Meaning more than AoC, meaning you included other games of FC, because 1 game is NOT a streak. I pointed you towards the 4 latest FC games that were released: you're talking bullshit when you say 'ooh, I don't want to include a decade old game', because clearly you include AO, a game that IS a decade year old. 'everything FC did'? Lol. You weren't even aware of TLJ and Dreamfall, and have you even played AO?

Annyways, I guess we agree to disagree on the prospects of this title.  I think it is made by a company with a history of producing sub-par games, with say 1.5 exception.   

Not really, it's more like FC has a history of producing good solid games, only with bad launches for their MMO's.

If everyone wants to place their faith in a man whose claim to fame is one awesome game from the 90's with a not as amazing  sequel made much more recently, and an MMO that took years to get on it's feet, now working for a company with a history of poor implementation and game production. Enjoy.

Thanks, and same to you: if you want to dismiss another game based solely on the bad experiences you've had with 1 of their games, then feel free and enjoy looking elsewhere for an MMO that provides any fun for you. Enjoy it 

Technically AO is less than a decade old.

You know, since I'm going with the whole 12 year thing.

If you don't want to include AO, that's fine, they have released 2 games in 10 years.  That's some really good activity there. One of them received mediocre (critics) to decent/good (users) reviews, and was not up to par with it's predecessor. The other was one of the biggest let downs MMO history. You say you liked it because you had no expectations, that's like saying you don't mind eating garbage because it has nice texture, and you had no expectations of good texture.

I can't believe this, by your logic, if Namco didn't release anything after PacMan, you would say Namco has a history of producing good solid games!

Paradigm68

Originally posted by Palebane

Originally posted by Paradigm68

Based on the whole AoC thing I ignore anything FC has to say. Their constant spin, marketing and propaganda was particularly obnoxious considering how off the mark from the truth they were.

Still, if a game is good, I'll play it. But no way I'll touch it unless I get a free trial around 6 mos to a year after launch.  FC doesn't get a single dollar until AFTER they prove to me the game is good.

I agree. I'm going to wait for reviews and player feedback. 

You know considering how iffy the whole review industry is for MMO's (Not you MMORPG.COM, you folks are the best, I mean everyone else) and how much FC hater or fanboi history is going impact player reaction I'm only going to consider it if I get to play a free trial. Nothing else will do it for me.

MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by Divinefairy

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by Divinefairy

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

See, right there.  Now your overplaying my downplaying. I downplayed one of their games since I never played it and it is over a decade old, it deserves to be downplayed.  I hardly downplayed everything FC did, how could I downplay AoC? It's already in the negatives.  Final Fantasy VII was a freaking awesome game, but I don't say Square is going to pump out awesome games because of it, its OLD!  

You seem not to get it: YOU were the one talking about a 'streak' of fails. Meaning more than AoC, meaning you included other games of FC, because 1 game is NOT a streak. I pointed you towards the 4 latest FC games that were released: you're talking bullshit when you say 'ooh, I don't want to include a decade old game', because clearly you include AO, a game that IS a decade year old. 'everything FC did'? Lol. You weren't even aware of TLJ and Dreamfall, and have you even played AO?

Annyways, I guess we agree to disagree on the prospects of this title.  I think it is made by a company with a history of producing sub-par games, with say 1.5 exception.   

Not really, it's more like FC has a history of producing good solid games, only with bad launches for their MMO's.

If everyone wants to place their faith in a man whose claim to fame is one awesome game from the 90's with a not as amazing  sequel made much more recently, and an MMO that took years to get on it's feet, now working for a company with a history of poor implementation and game production. Enjoy.

Thanks, and same to you: if you want to dismiss another game based solely on the bad experiences you've had with 1 of their games, then feel free and enjoy looking elsewhere for an MMO that provides any fun for you. Enjoy it 

Technically AO is less than a decade old.

You know, since I'm going with the whole 12 year thing.

If you don't want to include AO, that's fine, they have released 2 games in 10 years.  That's some really good activity there. One of them received mediocre (critics) to decent/good (users) reviews, and was not up to par with it's predecessor. The other was one of the biggest let downs MMO history. You say you liked it because you had no expectations, that's like saying you don't mind eating garbage because it has nice texture, and you had no expectations of good texture.

I can't believe this, by your logic, if Namco didn't release anything after PacMan, you would say Namco has a history of producing good solid games!

? Have you been drinking or something? Common sense, which I'm following, includes TLJ, AO, Dreamfall and AoC. You're the one who wants to include an FC game that's 10 years old, AO, while ignoring an FC game that's 12 years old, TLJ.

As good as all of those games scored good to great grades, 2 of them had a bad launch. One of them, the only game of those 4 you played, was the biggest let down for you and some other people like you who can't get over their grudge and need to make it seem bigger to feel good about their disliking a company.

Me, I think my viewpoint is a lot more objective because of, you know, not walking around with a grudge of bitter disappointment on my shoulder like some people're doing with AoC. And yes, I had no unreasonable or unrealistic expectations of the game as some - like you - apparently had being fooled by hype, with as a result that for me the game and its gameplay was a lot closer to my expectations, and I liked the game for what it offered, not for what I thought it should offer.

In fact, if I look at all the MMO's I played objectively, which for me is a lot easier than some others due to no bitterness or years' long grudges, I rate AoC in the top 5 MMO's I have played, solid, engaging and fun gameplay, with a personal no 3 spot for AoC for me.

Zinzan

Getting hung up on a companies previous performances isn't always logical. Consider Mythic, who produced the brilliant DAoC, by this logic their next game should have been good, but it wasn't, they went on to produce the mediocre flop Warhammer.

Any mmorpg these days is a lottery, personally i won't buy any mmo at release anymore, regardless of the company who makes it.  Free trial first, part with hard earned cash second, play WoW in the interrim.

tabarjack

That people are even following this game means funcom has an awesome sales team to even generate interest in their name. However, some investment is needed for a competant game development TEAM as currently their games feel more like they only have 1 or 2 guys raking in all the cash.

Basically, their games feel more as if it was made through forced labor than enjoyment and will to create a wonderful experience by the developpers. Anyways, ill be looking at forums to see the complaining threads when/if it is released. They're always quite entertaining.

Paradigm68

Originally posted by jackmcleod

That people are even following this game means funcom has an awesome sales team to even generate interest in their name. However, some investment is needed for a competant game development TEAM as currently their games feel more like they only have 1 or 2 guys raking in all the cash.

Basically, their games feel more as if it was made through forced labor than enjoyment and will to create a wonderful experience by the developpers. Anyways, ill be looking at forums to see the complaining threads when/if it is released. They're always quite entertaining.

I believe most of the activity is generated by Funcom's previous failures than it is by its sales team. Though I will admit that my iexperience with FC leads me to beleive that their marketing team is the most successful dept.

Divinefairy

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

? Have you been drinking or something? Common sense, which I'm following, includes TLJ, AO, Dreamfall and AoC. You're the one who wants to include an FC game that's 10 years old, AO, while ignoring an FC game that's 12 years old, TLJ.

As good as all of those games scored good to great grades, 2 of them had a bad launch. One of them, the only game of those 4 you played, was the biggest let down for you and some other people like you who can't get over their grudge and need to make it seem bigger to feel good about their disliking a company.

Me, I think my viewpoint is a lot more objective because of, you know, not walking around with a grudge of bitter disappointment on my shoulder like some people're doing with AoC. And yes, I had no unreasonable or unrealistic expectations of the game as some - like you - apparently had being fooled by hype, with as a result that for me the game and its gameplay was a lot closer to my expectations, and I liked the game for what it offered, not for what I thought it should offer.

In fact, if I look at all the MMO's I played objectively, which for me is a lot easier than some others due to no bitterness or years' long grudges, I rate AoC in the top 5 MMO's I have played, solid, engaging and fun gameplay, with a personal no 3 spot for AoC for me.

I'm gonna go ahead and delete everything before this so it doesn't crowd the place.

I hope I haven't been drinking, I was at work!

I don't care how many games we include in this analysis. If you want to include all four, fine. In over a decade, the company has released 4 titles, 1 was amazing, 1 was pretty good, 2 failed at launch, 1 of them picked up pretty well, and lets be honest, while AoC may no longer be as horrible as it was so long ago, it is still not a popular or highly rated game, lets consider it a flop. 

I did play AO, I didn't experience the launch and played it some 3 years after, but still it was not my cup of tea, regardless, we can say it got some decent ratings, about the same as Dreamfall.

So, by this time line,  our ratings go A+   ,   Fail -> B+,   B+   , Fail -> C,     and you expect the next entry in this system to be A+++?

I'm not sure how you could consider AoC post level 20 to be a solid engaging and fun gameplay experience.  Really, it was just bad, hype or no hype, that part of the game just blows, especially at launch.

MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by jackmcleod

That people are even following this game means funcom has an awesome sales team to even generate interest in their name. However, some investment is needed for a competant game development TEAM as currently their games feel more like they only have 1 or 2 guys raking in all the cash.

Naah, it's just that some people let their judgement be determined mainly by grudges that are so old that these grudges can father little baby grudges themselves

Some people had a great time and fun gameplay in AoC. Others like you did not.

Originally posted by Divinefairy

I'm gonna go ahead and delete everything before this so it doesn't crowd the place.

I hope I haven't been drinking, I was at work!

Ah well, it might have been, you never know

I don't care how many games we include in this analysis. If you want to include all four, fine. In over a decade, the company has released 4 titles, 1 was amazing, 1 was pretty good, 2 failed at launch, 1 of them picked up pretty well, and lets be honest, while AoC may no longer be as horrible as it was so long ago, it is still not a popular or highly rated game, lets consider it a flop. 

I did play AO, I didn't experience the launch and played it some 3 years after, but still it was not my cup of tea, regardless, we can say it got some decent ratings, about the same as Dreamfall.

So, by this time line,  our ratings go A+   ,   Fail -> B+,   B+   , Fail -> C,     and you expect the next entry in this system to be A+++?

AoC a C? Come on, have you been dri- ok, have you been smoking stuff? At launch it was maybe a B- but after the first 0.5-1 year a solid B+ to A-

By the time of the RotGS it scored a metacritic score of 83%, and 90% of the people actually playing it agreed that when a year had passed, it had straightened out a lot and had become a solid, good MMORPG that ranks with the best of the MMO bunch.

I'm not sure how you could consider AoC post level 20 to be a solid engaging and fun gameplay experience.  Really, it was just bad, hype or no hype, that part of the game just blows, especially at launch.

Nonsense. Or better said, maybe that's the case for you.

Quest leveling in AoC to me was even post level 20 more enjoyable and fun than quest leveling in LotrO (Books excluded) or quest leveling in Aion post level 25, or the quest leveling in Rift or Vanguard.

Maybe it was the melee combat that made the gameplay for me more exciting and entertaining, hence also the questing where combat is a significant gameplay as well, or maybe it was the nature and presentation of the quests or the general atmosphere, or maybe a mix. In any case, yes, leveling in AoC felt a lot of the time less grindy or a bore than in other AAA MMO's.

Agree to disagree, I guess.

Divinefairy

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Agree to disagree, I guess.

FEUD FOR LIFE!

MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by Divinefairy

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Agree to disagree, I guess.

FEUD FOR LIFE!

Heh, lol

 

... stop taking those party pills!

Nethermancer

At least Funcom is trying to do things a little differently.........as long as its not a bug ridden mess i will play it.

Elsabolts

The track record says bad release !

MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by Nethermancer

At least Funcom is trying to do things a little differently.........as long as its not a bug ridden mess i will play it.

Yep, not that many MMO companies have the guts to not play safe in game design.

We'll see how it works out, the biggest mistake they can make is to launch too soon when it isn't finished or polished yet.

thanoskkk

You cant be serious, playing a game like AoC till level 7 and you express your opinion about funcom? .........

DLangley

Please try to avoid baiting others into arguements. Thanks.

AdamTM

To be honest, this is the first game im going to buy and play out of principle, no matter if it sucks or is a bugridden mess.

 

I usually do not do that, however this is a special case. First of all it comes from the same mind of Dreamfall and The Longest Journey which are in my book one of the greatest games ever made. Second its because i really want a story/community-driven MMO with adventure/puzzle elements to succeed. And i do not mean things like Biowares Old Republic, where its still a themepark, but with many rides (which is fine, just not what im looking for atm).

So in any case im buying this on launch, if this game tanks the dreamfall sequel  might be in serious trouble and i want to know what happens next after the cliffhanger ending in the last game :P