An amusing statement. Most of WoW is very much the same as its predessor MMO's. Granted WoW enjoys the greater success but its built on the Idea's of others and not original. It's a very good game tho and deserves its success.
As far as Rift go's I find it to be an enjoyable game to play. It reminds me more of DAoC then WoW. I am not rushing through it though taking my time.
WoW had primarily the same mechanics but the games presentation was entirely different which was designed to appealed to the "main stream" rather than the "geeks". The mass appeal is the hard part to get right.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
As for GW2, TOR, Tera, or what have you, they also will not be the One True Game(tm). No game will ever be able to live up to peoples projections, wild expectations and imaginations. It will ALWAYS be just over the horizon. I've stopped chasing that ever shifting illusion. All I'm looking for now is an enjoyable, well polished game. Rift fits that for me. I also plan to try GW2, TOR, Tera and Firefall. They look like they will be fun.
My point isn't that these will herald the second coming of rich and quality MMORPGs, it's more that these are the next "AAA" (ugh) titles on the horizon, and that none of them seem to be trying to mimic WoW directly, like Rift has. I agree about the expectations bit, I have learned a few releases ago to enter into an new MMO with no expectations. I did the same with Rift, and was satisfied for a time.
Coming out and directly saying something as brazzen as "Rift is a finely polished dagger stabbed deep into the heart of [X Game]" would have been quite stupid and arrogant on the part of a developer. Endorsing it isn't much better in my opinion, but it serves its purpose of getting all the people who hate WoW, to which there are probably thousands, to give the game a look.
Trion has already taken said "finely crafted dagger" and melted it down for scrap metal. Soon to be reforged into the most generic dagger ever seen, which they promise will offend no one's sensibilities. They also apolgise to Blizzard for ever having thought to go near them with anything but dutiful worship in their hearts and promise that with in the next few months, Rift will be a declawed, defanged homage to WoW's greatness.
Seriously, why do companies that have something good, whether by design or chance, always find ways to kill what makes the game great after launch?
Rifts are already getting really old. The freedom of the Soul System is what makes the game unique, but they are already strongly underway in the process of neutering "troublesome souls" to the point that all Warriors, Clerics, Mages and Rogues will end up as clones of those classes from every other game.
Blizzard seems to be killing WoW all on their own, Rift will have no part in it and if the devs continue down the current road to folly, no one will even remember Rift and it's initial promis a couple years from now.
Well all I can say is trion best release some numbers to prove that statement. I am talking real numbers of active playing accounts and just not forum accounts.
Otherwise its more of the same arogance and bs.
Finely crafted dagger to the chest, lol I not seen any announcement from blizzard going omg were bleeding subs were dying omg omg.
ROFL statements like that make me distrust trion even more.
Finely crafted dagger to the chest, lol I not seen any announcement from blizzard going omg were bleeding subs were dying omg omg.
If you actually expect Blizzard - or any other MMO company - to announce that they're bleeding subs, then you're in for a long wait. Best estimation would be their quarterly corporate meetings where revenues and such are discussed. But from various sources there has been observations that WoW is losing subs, at least outside of their Chinese area.
CATA didn't remake WoW into a WoW2 or boost WoW into a renaissance of 15+ million subs, it's more the case that it peaked for 1-2 months and has even less subs now than it had before CATA. But even if 500k WoW subs had gone to Rift, that'd still be only a small part of the about 5 million non-Chinese subs. WoW can afford to lose half its subs, even if the shareholders might think differently.
I don't expect Rift to have taken half of WoW's EU/US playerbase, still 500k-1million players is still a respectable number, especially if Rift can manage to hold on to a large part of these beyond the first month or 2, because this'd mean that it will already have done better than most other AAA MMO's.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Trion has already taken said "finely crafted dagger" and melted it down for scrap metal. Soon to be reforged into the most generic dagger ever seen, which they promise will offend no one's sensibilities. They also apolgise to Blizzard for ever having thought to go near them with anything but dutiful worship in their hearts and promise that with in the next few months, Rift will be a declawed, defanged homage to WoW's greatness.
Seriously, why do companies that have something good, whether by design or chance, always find ways to kill what makes the game great after launch?
Rifts are already getting really old. The freedom of the Soul System is what makes the game unique, but they are already strongly underway in the process of neutering "troublesome souls" to the point that all Warriors, Clerics, Mages and Rogues will end up as clones of those classes from every other game.
Blizzard seems to be killing WoW all on their own, Rift will have no part in it and if the devs continue down the current road to folly, no one will even remember Rift and it's initial promis a couple years from now.
all I read was WAAAAHHHH WAAAAAAAHHHH WAAAAAAHHHH!
Nerfing has nothing to do with rift's genericness. The game is boring, particularly endgame.
while Rift is a good game, i think the dagger was dull cos wow is not bleeding yet.....
the majority of wow players that switched to rift im sure it was because they didnt like the cata content enough to stay there while Rift came out at the same time and that grabbed their attention (my opinion).... and that still doesnt mean the dagger cut through wows chest while many of them are already back to wow or playing both
sorry bad english but i dont feel the need to write academicaly in a gaming forum
Rift has done one very important thing which no other game has been able to do yet. It has proven that the people still playing WoW are in fact willing to look for another game to play, and that alone is important in the MMORPG genre. It means that Blizzard no longer has its hold on its entire player base like it did just a year or two ago. And its something I'm sure Blizzard has already noticed and is discussing weekly in thier team meetings trying to find ways to entice thier playerbase back to its 100% loyalty.
Whether or not Rift is the one to steal the players away from WoW or not, everyone is now aware that the players CAN be stolen away given the right circumstances. That alone is all Rift ever had to accomplish to become that dagger mentioned in the quote from the reviewer at MPODG, nothing more. Now, its just a matter of time to watch and see if Blizzard can exert enough pressure on the wound and seal it, or if they can't and it begins to bleed out.
Rift has done one very important thing which no other game has been able to do yet. It has proven that the people still playing WoW are in fact willing to look for another game to play, and that alone is important in the MMORPG genre. It means that Blizzard no longer has its hold on its entire player base like it did just a year or two ago. And its something I'm sure Blizzard has already noticed and is discussing weekly in thier team meetings trying to find ways to entice thier playerbase back to its 100% loyalty.
Whether or not Rift is the one to steal the players away from WoW or not, everyone is now aware that the players CAN be stolen away given the right circumstances. That alone is all Rift ever had to accomplish to become that dagger mentioned in the quote from the reviewer at MPODG, nothing more. Now, its just a matter of time to watch and see if Blizzard can exert enough pressure on the wound and seal it, or if they can't and it begins to bleed out.
Everything here has been done before. It's if Rift can maintain it's subscriber base, not WoW, for the next few months. Every "AAA" MMORPG title released in the past few years gutted WoW of subscribers.. the problem is, they usually went back within 3 months.
Rift hasn't been out long enough to state it has interrupted Blizzard's "hold on its player base."
Rift has done one very important thing which no other game has been able to do yet. It has proven that the people still playing WoW are in fact willing to look for another game to play, and that alone is important in the MMORPG genre. It means that Blizzard no longer has its hold on its entire player base like it did just a year or two ago. And its something I'm sure Blizzard has already noticed and is discussing weekly in thier team meetings trying to find ways to entice thier playerbase back to its 100% loyalty.
This.
Like with some titles a couple of years ago, hundreds of thousands of WoWers are willing to leave with the promise of nuffin really. So many willing to leave for Rift, a totally generic game following much in the footsteps of WoW and WAR.... Thats a good sign imo. Ppl who enjoy WoW should by all means play it! But dont stick around because of "all the time I've invested into that game" coz at the end of the day its just a silly set of gear and a tabsheet called "achievements". MMOs are trying too hard to keep ppl in with shit like that instead of making actual content.
Seeing subscription numbers in a few months will yield more information, but I would assume that:
"... a finely crafted dagger, stabbed deep into the chest of WoW..." is a huge exaggeration.
It is probably something along the lines of:
"... an incredibly painful, but short-lived, finger prick by those Red Cross Hooligans..."
or
"... a pint of blood drawn for donation - You'll be weak for a few days, but it will replenish soon enough..."
Yep... that about sums it up.
That said, the one thing Rift has done, that hasn't been done since LotRO, is make a complete, relatively bug free game at launch. Which basically means they can focus primarily on new content from now on, aka the whole point of paying for a sub. Therefore, I don't think it will share its fate with WAR, AoC, FFIV, or DCUO.
Rift will have a slow bleed off, but given their current position, methinx they'll be comfortable for a good while. I suspect, 3-6 months out it'll still be doing fine, but hopefully there'll be enough evidence that the "WoW killer" bit is bogus, that those people will finally STFU.
That said, the one thing Rift has done, that hasn't been done since LotRO, is make a complete, relatively bug free game at launch. Which basically means they can focus primarily on new content from now on, aka the whole point of paying for a sub. Therefore, I don't think it will share its fate with WAR, AoC, FFIV, or DCUO.
Rift will have a slow bleed off, but given their current position, methinx they'll be comfortable for a good while. I suspect, 3-6 months out it'll still be doing fine, but hopefully there'll be enough evidence that the "WoW killer" bit is bogus, that those people will finally STFU.
I actually hope Rift does really well. I'm not playing any MMOs at the moment, but it is great to see multiple MMOs doing well at the same time! If Rift could keep 500k to 1M subscribers, I would consider that an enormous success!
That said, the one thing Rift has done, that hasn't been done since LotRO, is make a complete, relatively bug free game at launch. Which basically means they can focus primarily on new content from now on, aka the whole point of paying for a sub. Therefore, I don't think it will share its fate with WAR, AoC, FFIV, or DCUO.
Rift will have a slow bleed off, but given their current position, methinx they'll be comfortable for a good while. I suspect, 3-6 months out it'll still be doing fine, but hopefully there'll be enough evidence that the "WoW killer" bit is bogus, that those people will finally STFU.
I actually hope Rift does really well. I'm not playing any MMOs at the moment, but it is great to see multiple MMOs doing well at the same time! If Rift could keep 500k to 1M subscribers, I would consider that an enormous success!
I agree htiger23. Although I won't be playing Rift, I wish Trion well and I hope the game continues to flourish. Competition is healthy and forces innovation (we hope). I think with SWTOR, Tera, ArcheAge, GW2, and TSW coming out over the next few years, the MMO landscape will finally change dramatically.
A big problem for alot of you people in this thread -- and I mean big, is that wow was your first MMO...its pathetic you so lack any firm ground with which to judge an MMO after such a weak initial impression into the genre. WoW is as simple minded as many of your comparisons and knowledge of the genre. The fact you wow babies continually feel fit to weigh in on the MMO market is laughable.
A big problem for alot of you people in this thread -- and I mean big, is that wow was your first MMO...its pathetic you so lack any firm ground with which to judge an MMO after such a weak initial impression into the genre. WoW is as simple minded as many of your comparisons and knowledge of the genre. The fact you wow babies continually feel fit to weigh in on the MMO market is laughable.
So what you're saying is that one would have had to have played mmos prior to WoW (which launched over 7 years ago) in order to be "fit to weigh in on the mmo market"?
These forums would be a hell of a lot quieter if anyone followed that kind of logic.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
A big problem for alot of you people in this thread -- and I mean big, is that wow was your first MMO...its pathetic you so lack any firm ground with which to judge an MMO after such a weak initial impression into the genre. WoW is as simple minded as many of your comparisons and knowledge of the genre. The fact you wow babies continually feel fit to weigh in on the MMO market is laughable.
As far as responses go, this is one of the most condescending and incorrect ones I have ever seen. You add nothing to this community with responses like this.
1. My list of Games
Anarchy Online, Earth & Beyond, Dark Age of Camelot, Shadowbane, Everquest, City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Lineage 2, Ryzom, Warhammer, Vanguard, Final Fantasy XI, DC Universe Online,
2. Your False Argument
Claiming that people that have only played WoW are unfit to weigh in on the MMO market is idiotic. WoW represents the majority (or plurality, at the minimum) of MMO players. Obviously, people like the way WoW plays, as seen in the population in the game. Game companies should not try to emulate it completely, as that would do no good, but a lot of the old MMO conventions have died (for the short term, at least).
It is completely fine if you don't like the game, but come up with rational arguments prior to spouting flaming fallacies.
TLDR: If you can't add something positive to the community, please find another one. No one wants to see you belittling others for their preference in games.
Rift has done one very important thing which no other game has been able to do yet. It has proven that the people still playing WoW are in fact willing to look for another game to play, and that alone is important in the MMORPG genre. It means that Blizzard no longer has its hold on its entire player base like it did just a year or two ago. And its something I'm sure Blizzard has already noticed and is discussing weekly in thier team meetings trying to find ways to entice thier playerbase back to its 100% loyalty.
Whether or not Rift is the one to steal the players away from WoW or not, everyone is now aware that the players CAN be stolen away given the right circumstances. That alone is all Rift ever had to accomplish to become that dagger mentioned in the quote from the reviewer at MPODG, nothing more. Now, its just a matter of time to watch and see if Blizzard can exert enough pressure on the wound and seal it, or if they can't and it begins to bleed out.
That is a "fair" statement,but there is another way of looking at it.Perhaps after 7 years there is a LOT of Wow players that are just bored and want to play something else.There is also a VEY good fact that many Rift players are maintaining their Wow accounts AND any sign of a mass exodus from Rift,there is a VERY good chance they run back to Wow ...again.
Perhaps there is VERY few leaving Wow,maybe this is just that 1-2 million that have been game hopping.Example tired of Aion or didn't like FFXIV or just people that are carrying an account to another game and wanted some variety.
Only thing i don't like about those two lines,is they are just "WOW BAIT".it is not like those two lines offer any criticism or substance just a statement to bring about Wow hate.Honestly if anyone of us posted a statement like that[even with substance] we are called trolls,but since Trion is paying money to advertise that statement,they are i guess exempt from the rules.[double standards].
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
WoW is as simple minded as many of your comparisons and knowledge of the genre. The fact you wow babies continually feel fit to weigh in on the MMO market is laughable.
You can dump on WOW all you want, but if WOW wasn't as popular as it is now, you wouldnt be playing RIFT. Trion can be all quippy in their marketing as they want, but when it comes down to it, Trion shoud be thanking Blizzard for coming up with most of the ideas they are using.
I also think it's laughable that you don't realize that Blizzard pretty much refined this genre you claim us "Wow Babies" have no idea about.
Oh my... you are just enforcing the well deserved prejudice...
Under my MMO belt, I have EQ, EQ2, SW Galaxies, City of Heroes, WAR, LOTRO...I misspoke...Trion should be thanking blizzard for most of the ideas they made popular.
No doubt about the fact wow is losing subs, but these kind of threads has to stop people.
I know Blizzards wow is the mmo to compare when you launch a game, but you cannot beat blizzard with just an mmo.
Time will tell, but Rift versus WoW ? come on --_--
I expect Rift will, for those who're tired of WoW and other MMO's (who wouldn't, after playing the same game for years?), be a nice bridge to when MMORPG's like GW2 and SWTOR will launch.
With 'just an mmo'? No, it won't be one MMO, it will be a Rift, GW2, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, ArcheAge and World of Darkness that will attract MMO gamers, andwhen your friends and guildies are moving en masse to one of those high quality AAA MMO's, then it'll be a tough decision to just stay behind in one of the older MMO's and hear their enthusiastic stories and fun gameplay experiences.
I think Maverick is exactly right here. In the late 70's nobody could imagine IBM being seriously rivaled by any other company in the computer world. Yet it was during those years that Microsoft, Sun, Oracle and others started. Where are we now? Nobody stays number one forever. It just doesn't happen. But there are three important things we can learn from what happened with these computer companies.
First, IBM might be just one of many serious computer companies now but they are not gone. This isn't an either or kind of game. Lots of companies still swear by IBM computing products and will not look anywhere else for purchases. WoW wont be going anywhere either. When WoW has serious competition it will be just that. Competition. But wow is not going to disappear in a puff of smoke either. Companies and there products often take decades to die.
Second. It will take years to happen. Yes this industry is driven off hype a lot more than the 70s business computing industry so maybe it wont take quite as many years but it will still take a long time. People will shift from wow to rift. then from rift to swtor then from swtor to gw2 and then when they get bored some will go back to wow, others back to eq2 and others back to rift or swtor. some will stick with gw2. the populations sloshes around from here to there like a huge bowl of soup. But eventually people settle into a place that might be called there home game. The real question is over the course of the next few years will wow continue to bleed customers to these other games. Will these other games continue to deliver what is perceived as superior service or content or whatever draws people away. A game like Rift cannot kill WoW with a single stab. Trion or Bioware or Arenanet will have to keep on delivering over and over and over for the next couple of years to pull it off. It also depends greatly on how Blizzard reacts. Do they flail about and only react to what is happening or do they continue to believe that they are untouchable or do they not care because Titan is on the way to make things right or do they do something that will really impress and win back these wayward customers? who know. Point is, long term, stable shifts in the market take years to happen.
Third. It wont be just one company. IBM was not supplated by just one company and neither will WoW be replaced by just one other game. No game, by itself, is a WoW killer. Hell, EQ still hasn't died, what makes us thing WoW ever will. But what ever happens there will not be a WoW 2.0. Nothing is going to replace WoW all by itself and reach the same height of subscriber number domination. Not even Titan. Some say only Blizz can kill WoW. I think it would be more likely that EVEN Blizz wont be able to kill WoW. Even with Titan. Eclipse it perhaps, as EQ2 did to EQ1, but not kill it.
I do think WoW is on the way out. But I also believe that it will be years before that is even noticeable from a numbers perspective. WoW is so far ahead of everyone else right now that, even coasting, they will still be the front runner for probably 5 years. and even after they loose first place, which they will someday, they will still continue to run for years more. And at the very least. WoW will be remembered as the one that introduced the rest of the world to what nerds do with their time.
WoW is as simple minded as many of your comparisons and knowledge of the genre. The fact you wow babies continually feel fit to weigh in on the MMO market is laughable.
You can dump on WOW all you want, but if WOW wasn't as popular as it is now, you wouldnt be playing RIFT. Trion can be all quippy in their marketing as they want, but when it comes down to it, Trion shoud be thanking Blizzard for coming up with most of the ideas they are using.
I also think it's laughable that you don't realize that Blizzard pretty much refined this genre you claim us "Wow Babies" have no idea about.
WoW brought almost nothing specifically new to the genre beyond the idea of making it easier to it could be mass marketed. But I can agree that every other game should thank WoW for at least one big thing. And that is the expanded market. Had WoW not been so successful we wouldn't have half the mmo companies we do today trying to figure out a how to build this mousetrap better so that they can get their share of that big pie. WoW proved that MMOs didn't have to be a niche market but could be pushed further into the mainstream.
WoW didn't show us what could be done with MMOs, it showed us what could be done with the MMO market.
How can a million MMO players NOT playing WOW in favor of Rift not be an "impact"? And we're talking North American and European players who pay around $15 per month, not Chinese players who are on a different fee scale.
This is a huge hit; make no doubt about it.
As has been said before, this doesn't make a bit of difference at this point. It will only be an impact if Trion can keep those people and prevent them from going straight back, just like what happened with every MMO release for the past few years. It's only been a month. Give it time before any claims are made.
This isn't the first MMORPG Blizz has seen come out since WoW.
LOL hardly. Though there are some over eager mods locking threads just because WoW was mentioned, this subject is not a comparision.
Trion is clearly, and desperately trying to target WoW's player base. This is a fact. When they come up with cheesy and often silly one liners as part of their marketing campaign, of which, dont hint at WoW, they actually call it out, then no censorship should talk place to talk about the said advertisement.
Trion is pretty pathetic, they really are not off to a good start.
Again: the quote in topic is just that, a quote. Its from a games reviewer, not a cheesy/silly one liner.
I'm not really sure what you have against Trion, could it be you're a WoWer? If you think blizzard sets some kind of standard for behaviour I'd like to remind you that when WAR released (and WoW most likely lost hundreds of thousands of subs) blizz representatives were bashing WAR openly on game sites. So much for good behaviour.
They couldnt really know that most ppl would return to WoW following WARs failure. But now they do. And its been like that since. Subs drop, and then come back. And now blizzard more openly welcomes competition.
offtopic:
Next we'll see how Rift stole so many features from WoW, features that were ofc not first seen in WoW at all but who cares about that amarite? WoW has really few original features.
Uh champ, who made and is paying for the advertisement with that one liner in it?
The answer is Trion. They started with "you are not in azeroth anymore" as part of their ad campaign, and they are jumping on this one. You need to understand, Trion is run by marketoids. Marketing departments often piss off designers because they mess up and try to force creative decisions. Trion, from its foundation, is based purely on the marketing mindset.
How they handled the beta key, VIP key, supply and demand campaign is just another notch in the marketing tactics they make use of. They believe firmly, and I am quite certain of this, even from what I saw of their booth and stage presentation (as I was at E3), that even a sub average product can be a huge success if you manipulate the market into buying into it. Its sort of an artificial fanbase, one where you know a portion of the player base will love it just because its viewed as popular to love it. If something is in low supply but high demand, even if its crap, people will want it, and once they get it you have them stuck to it.
Honestly I do not think Rift can sell itself or speak for itself, its not good enough of a product to do so.
You call me a WoWer? I have no idea what that means, but I have more in common with an industry professional than that of a consumer with a hardon for a specific game or studio.
If anything it seems like you are the one with a chip on your sholder regarding WoW, that you have a strong bias against Blizzard and or their mmorpg, and thus push it on other people as a form of counter argument.
Originally posted by ReallyNow10
Originally posted by tank017
I dont think its done much of anything to WoW..
im sure its taken some subs away,but nothing considered anywhere near an impact.
and it seems that for as many people that like Rift, there is also a good lot that dont.
when I read that quote on the ad I lol'd
How can a million MMO players NOT playing WOW in favor of Rift not be an "impact"? And we're talking North American and European players who pay around $15 per month, not Chinese players who are on a different fee scale.
This is a huge hit; make no doubt about it.
There are NOT, 1 million people, actively subscribed to Rift right now. Furthermore, you cannot state that of their subscriptions, all of them came from WoW. It seems to me, that many Rift players vocally disdain WoW and or give the impression that they never wanted to play WoW but would play Rift.
You do know that ALL these threads about WoW, instead of ruining its image, gives it too much importance... STOP compraing any game and mmo to WOW, its getting old! People that keep saying this have too much free time in their hands.
Comments
WoW had primarily the same mechanics but the games presentation was entirely different which was designed to appealed to the "main stream" rather than the "geeks". The mass appeal is the hard part to get right.
Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.
My point isn't that these will herald the second coming of rich and quality MMORPGs, it's more that these are the next "AAA" (ugh) titles on the horizon, and that none of them seem to be trying to mimic WoW directly, like Rift has. I agree about the expectations bit, I have learned a few releases ago to enter into an new MMO with no expectations. I did the same with Rift, and was satisfied for a time.
Coming out and directly saying something as brazzen as "Rift is a finely polished dagger stabbed deep into the heart of [X Game]" would have been quite stupid and arrogant on the part of a developer. Endorsing it isn't much better in my opinion, but it serves its purpose of getting all the people who hate WoW, to which there are probably thousands, to give the game a look.
.. But in a good way.
Trion has already taken said "finely crafted dagger" and melted it down for scrap metal. Soon to be reforged into the most generic dagger ever seen, which they promise will offend no one's sensibilities. They also apolgise to Blizzard for ever having thought to go near them with anything but dutiful worship in their hearts and promise that with in the next few months, Rift will be a declawed, defanged homage to WoW's greatness.
Seriously, why do companies that have something good, whether by design or chance, always find ways to kill what makes the game great after launch?
Rifts are already getting really old. The freedom of the Soul System is what makes the game unique, but they are already strongly underway in the process of neutering "troublesome souls" to the point that all Warriors, Clerics, Mages and Rogues will end up as clones of those classes from every other game.
Blizzard seems to be killing WoW all on their own, Rift will have no part in it and if the devs continue down the current road to folly, no one will even remember Rift and it's initial promis a couple years from now.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Well all I can say is trion best release some numbers to prove that statement. I am talking real numbers of active playing accounts and just not forum accounts.
Otherwise its more of the same arogance and bs.
Finely crafted dagger to the chest, lol I not seen any announcement from blizzard going omg were bleeding subs were dying omg omg.
ROFL statements like that make me distrust trion even more.
If you actually expect Blizzard - or any other MMO company - to announce that they're bleeding subs, then you're in for a long wait. Best estimation would be their quarterly corporate meetings where revenues and such are discussed. But from various sources there has been observations that WoW is losing subs, at least outside of their Chinese area.
CATA didn't remake WoW into a WoW2 or boost WoW into a renaissance of 15+ million subs, it's more the case that it peaked for 1-2 months and has even less subs now than it had before CATA. But even if 500k WoW subs had gone to Rift, that'd still be only a small part of the about 5 million non-Chinese subs. WoW can afford to lose half its subs, even if the shareholders might think differently.
I don't expect Rift to have taken half of WoW's EU/US playerbase, still 500k-1million players is still a respectable number, especially if Rift can manage to hold on to a large part of these beyond the first month or 2, because this'd mean that it will already have done better than most other AAA MMO's.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
all I read was WAAAAHHHH WAAAAAAAHHHH WAAAAAAHHHH!
Nerfing has nothing to do with rift's genericness. The game is boring, particularly endgame.
while Rift is a good game, i think the dagger was dull cos wow is not bleeding yet.....
the majority of wow players that switched to rift im sure it was because they didnt like the cata content enough to stay there while Rift came out at the same time and that grabbed their attention (my opinion).... and that still doesnt mean the dagger cut through wows chest while many of them are already back to wow or playing both
sorry bad english
but i dont feel the need to write academicaly in a gaming forum
Rift has done one very important thing which no other game has been able to do yet. It has proven that the people still playing WoW are in fact willing to look for another game to play, and that alone is important in the MMORPG genre. It means that Blizzard no longer has its hold on its entire player base like it did just a year or two ago. And its something I'm sure Blizzard has already noticed and is discussing weekly in thier team meetings trying to find ways to entice thier playerbase back to its 100% loyalty.
Whether or not Rift is the one to steal the players away from WoW or not, everyone is now aware that the players CAN be stolen away given the right circumstances. That alone is all Rift ever had to accomplish to become that dagger mentioned in the quote from the reviewer at MPODG, nothing more. Now, its just a matter of time to watch and see if Blizzard can exert enough pressure on the wound and seal it, or if they can't and it begins to bleed out.
Everything here has been done before. It's if Rift can maintain it's subscriber base, not WoW, for the next few months. Every "AAA" MMORPG title released in the past few years gutted WoW of subscribers.. the problem is, they usually went back within 3 months.
Rift hasn't been out long enough to state it has interrupted Blizzard's "hold on its player base."
That was a pretty entertaining read though.
.. But in a good way.
This.
Like with some titles a couple of years ago, hundreds of thousands of WoWers are willing to leave with the promise of nuffin really. So many willing to leave for Rift, a totally generic game following much in the footsteps of WoW and WAR.... Thats a good sign imo. Ppl who enjoy WoW should by all means play it! But dont stick around because of "all the time I've invested into that game" coz at the end of the day its just a silly set of gear and a tabsheet called "achievements". MMOs are trying too hard to keep ppl in with shit like that instead of making actual content.
Seeing subscription numbers in a few months will yield more information, but I would assume that:
"... a finely crafted dagger, stabbed deep into the chest of WoW..." is a huge exaggeration.
It is probably something along the lines of:
"... an incredibly painful, but short-lived, finger prick by those Red Cross Hooligans..."
or
"... a pint of blood drawn for donation - You'll be weak for a few days, but it will replenish soon enough..."
Yep... that about sums it up.
That said, the one thing Rift has done, that hasn't been done since LotRO, is make a complete, relatively bug free game at launch. Which basically means they can focus primarily on new content from now on, aka the whole point of paying for a sub. Therefore, I don't think it will share its fate with WAR, AoC, FFIV, or DCUO.
Rift will have a slow bleed off, but given their current position, methinx they'll be comfortable for a good while. I suspect, 3-6 months out it'll still be doing fine, but hopefully there'll be enough evidence that the "WoW killer" bit is bogus, that those people will finally STFU.
I actually hope Rift does really well. I'm not playing any MMOs at the moment, but it is great to see multiple MMOs doing well at the same time! If Rift could keep 500k to 1M subscribers, I would consider that an enormous success!
I agree htiger23. Although I won't be playing Rift, I wish Trion well and I hope the game continues to flourish. Competition is healthy and forces innovation (we hope). I think with SWTOR, Tera, ArcheAge, GW2, and TSW coming out over the next few years, the MMO landscape will finally change dramatically.
A big problem for alot of you people in this thread -- and I mean big, is that wow was your first MMO...its pathetic you so lack any firm ground with which to judge an MMO after such a weak initial impression into the genre. WoW is as simple minded as many of your comparisons and knowledge of the genre. The fact you wow babies continually feel fit to weigh in on the MMO market is laughable.
So what you're saying is that one would have had to have played mmos prior to WoW (which launched over 7 years ago) in order to be "fit to weigh in on the mmo market"?
These forums would be a hell of a lot quieter if anyone followed that kind of logic.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
As far as responses go, this is one of the most condescending and incorrect ones I have ever seen. You add nothing to this community with responses like this.
1. My list of Games
Anarchy Online, Earth & Beyond, Dark Age of Camelot, Shadowbane, Everquest, City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Lineage 2, Ryzom, Warhammer, Vanguard, Final Fantasy XI, DC Universe Online,
2. Your False Argument
Claiming that people that have only played WoW are unfit to weigh in on the MMO market is idiotic. WoW represents the majority (or plurality, at the minimum) of MMO players. Obviously, people like the way WoW plays, as seen in the population in the game. Game companies should not try to emulate it completely, as that would do no good, but a lot of the old MMO conventions have died (for the short term, at least).
It is completely fine if you don't like the game, but come up with rational arguments prior to spouting flaming fallacies.
TLDR: If you can't add something positive to the community, please find another one. No one wants to see you belittling others for their preference in games.
That is a "fair" statement,but there is another way of looking at it.Perhaps after 7 years there is a LOT of Wow players that are just bored and want to play something else.There is also a VEY good fact that many Rift players are maintaining their Wow accounts AND any sign of a mass exodus from Rift,there is a VERY good chance they run back to Wow ...again.
Perhaps there is VERY few leaving Wow,maybe this is just that 1-2 million that have been game hopping.Example tired of Aion or didn't like FFXIV or just people that are carrying an account to another game and wanted some variety.
Only thing i don't like about those two lines,is they are just "WOW BAIT".it is not like those two lines offer any criticism or substance just a statement to bring about Wow hate.Honestly if anyone of us posted a statement like that[even with substance] we are called trolls,but since Trion is paying money to advertise that statement,they are i guess exempt from the rules.[double standards].
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Under my MMO belt, I have EQ, EQ2, SW Galaxies, City of Heroes, WAR, LOTRO...I misspoke...Trion should be thanking blizzard for most of the ideas they made popular.
I think Maverick is exactly right here. In the late 70's nobody could imagine IBM being seriously rivaled by any other company in the computer world. Yet it was during those years that Microsoft, Sun, Oracle and others started. Where are we now? Nobody stays number one forever. It just doesn't happen. But there are three important things we can learn from what happened with these computer companies.
First, IBM might be just one of many serious computer companies now but they are not gone. This isn't an either or kind of game. Lots of companies still swear by IBM computing products and will not look anywhere else for purchases. WoW wont be going anywhere either. When WoW has serious competition it will be just that. Competition. But wow is not going to disappear in a puff of smoke either. Companies and there products often take decades to die.
Second. It will take years to happen. Yes this industry is driven off hype a lot more than the 70s business computing industry so maybe it wont take quite as many years but it will still take a long time. People will shift from wow to rift. then from rift to swtor then from swtor to gw2 and then when they get bored some will go back to wow, others back to eq2 and others back to rift or swtor. some will stick with gw2. the populations sloshes around from here to there like a huge bowl of soup. But eventually people settle into a place that might be called there home game. The real question is over the course of the next few years will wow continue to bleed customers to these other games. Will these other games continue to deliver what is perceived as superior service or content or whatever draws people away. A game like Rift cannot kill WoW with a single stab. Trion or Bioware or Arenanet will have to keep on delivering over and over and over for the next couple of years to pull it off. It also depends greatly on how Blizzard reacts. Do they flail about and only react to what is happening or do they continue to believe that they are untouchable or do they not care because Titan is on the way to make things right or do they do something that will really impress and win back these wayward customers? who know. Point is, long term, stable shifts in the market take years to happen.
Third. It wont be just one company. IBM was not supplated by just one company and neither will WoW be replaced by just one other game. No game, by itself, is a WoW killer. Hell, EQ still hasn't died, what makes us thing WoW ever will. But what ever happens there will not be a WoW 2.0. Nothing is going to replace WoW all by itself and reach the same height of subscriber number domination. Not even Titan. Some say only Blizz can kill WoW. I think it would be more likely that EVEN Blizz wont be able to kill WoW. Even with Titan. Eclipse it perhaps, as EQ2 did to EQ1, but not kill it.
I do think WoW is on the way out. But I also believe that it will be years before that is even noticeable from a numbers perspective. WoW is so far ahead of everyone else right now that, even coasting, they will still be the front runner for probably 5 years. and even after they loose first place, which they will someday, they will still continue to run for years more. And at the very least. WoW will be remembered as the one that introduced the rest of the world to what nerds do with their time.
All die, so die well.
WoW brought almost nothing specifically new to the genre beyond the idea of making it easier to it could be mass marketed. But I can agree that every other game should thank WoW for at least one big thing. And that is the expanded market. Had WoW not been so successful we wouldn't have half the mmo companies we do today trying to figure out a how to build this mousetrap better so that they can get their share of that big pie. WoW proved that MMOs didn't have to be a niche market but could be pushed further into the mainstream.
WoW didn't show us what could be done with MMOs, it showed us what could be done with the MMO market.
All die, so die well.
if it killed anything...
it killed DCUO =P
This have been a good conversation
As has been said before, this doesn't make a bit of difference at this point. It will only be an impact if Trion can keep those people and prevent them from going straight back, just like what happened with every MMO release for the past few years. It's only been a month. Give it time before any claims are made.
This isn't the first MMORPG Blizz has seen come out since WoW.
.. But in a good way.
Uh champ, who made and is paying for the advertisement with that one liner in it?
The answer is Trion. They started with "you are not in azeroth anymore" as part of their ad campaign, and they are jumping on this one. You need to understand, Trion is run by marketoids. Marketing departments often piss off designers because they mess up and try to force creative decisions. Trion, from its foundation, is based purely on the marketing mindset.
How they handled the beta key, VIP key, supply and demand campaign is just another notch in the marketing tactics they make use of. They believe firmly, and I am quite certain of this, even from what I saw of their booth and stage presentation (as I was at E3), that even a sub average product can be a huge success if you manipulate the market into buying into it. Its sort of an artificial fanbase, one where you know a portion of the player base will love it just because its viewed as popular to love it. If something is in low supply but high demand, even if its crap, people will want it, and once they get it you have them stuck to it.
Honestly I do not think Rift can sell itself or speak for itself, its not good enough of a product to do so.
You call me a WoWer? I have no idea what that means, but I have more in common with an industry professional than that of a consumer with a hardon for a specific game or studio.
If anything it seems like you are the one with a chip on your sholder regarding WoW, that you have a strong bias against Blizzard and or their mmorpg, and thus push it on other people as a form of counter argument.
There are NOT, 1 million people, actively subscribed to Rift right now. Furthermore, you cannot state that of their subscriptions, all of them came from WoW. It seems to me, that many Rift players vocally disdain WoW and or give the impression that they never wanted to play WoW but would play Rift.
You do know that ALL these threads about WoW, instead of ruining its image, gives it too much importance... STOP compraing any game and mmo to WOW, its getting old! People that keep saying this have too much free time in their hands.
Future: WoD, SWTOR, Arche Age, Tera (maybe), GW2.
Present: None.
Past: Eve, RIFT, UO, bunch of F2P crap.