Honestly do people not believe that there are world quests, or arcs above and beyond your class story?
Info Gathered on TOR so Far WITH CITATIONS Head to that thread, and you can read what has, and hasnt been shared so far, and you can check the actual link so you can read the article for yourself. I'm not going to copy over the links for the quests part, but if you would like to see 'em, go have a look at the link cited. Bioware has focused on story because that's what is making TOR different from other MMO's, why on earth would they market their game by heavily pitching how it is just like other MMO's? The info is out there, and they havent hidden it, even if some folks arent interested enough to find out about it.
Quests:
Quote: You can experience your whole class story entirely solo, as well as many of the world arcs. - Bioware
If you just focus on your main quest line, not doing side quests, you can leave Tython (with your lightsaber), at around level 7 to go to your next destination but if you do other quests you leave at around 10 - Torocast
Quote: It shouldn't take an average player more than five to seven hours to finish the origin stories on Tython and continue to the next planet - Darth Hater
Like in other MMOs quest givers are indicated by symbols over their heads. A broken triangle equals a new quest and solid triangle equals a quest to be handed in - Darth Hater
Quote: Heroic quests are of higher difficulty than normal quests, potentially require a group, and might be phased areas - Darth Hater
Quote: While in a group and entering a green portal, it designates which group member owns the story - Darth Hater
Quote from Daniel regarding class quests on planets: On the Origin worlds it's about 60% Class Quests, dropping to about 40% on the Capital worlds and then even lower for the rest of the game. - Dev. Post
Quote: So the game very purposefully starts with more single player content and then moves strongly towards content that can be played multiplayer. - Dev. Post
If your grouped and on a quest, in an instance, with another person, who is not on the same quest, once the quest holder enters the instance it allows the none quest person to enter - Torocast
Class Quests Fully solo able but can still be grouped if wished. Only your decisions count. Enough to get you to level cap if you do not want to do anything else.
World Quests These are your standard MMO/RPG quests that you can pick up as you perform other tasks either in group or solo.
World Arcs These are grand far reaching quests designed to be done in a group but can just about be done solo.
Flashpoints (or dungeons) - Designed to be done as a group.
Bonus Quests - You do not ask/find these they happen automatically. For example if you kill a certain creature you may get a quest to say kill 10 of them, it gives various rewards. - Torocast
Heroic Quests: Heroic Quests are quests of higher difficulty that provide a challenge to groups - Bioware
Some other Randomness that applies taken from various parts of the already address thread:
Quote: If you want to take a break from your class story and want to do some world quests that are not a part of your class, you can definitely do that. In fact, the majority of the content is that in the game. - TenTonHammer
Quote: So, its not like youre just going along you class quest like a solo quest throughout the entire game, theres a lot of room to go off and do whatever you want whenever you want. - TenTonHammer
Quote: The general gist is that we want to reward grouping, but not so much that grouping is the only way to play the game - XP Damion Schubert
So what happened on release? Rifting and Dungeons are awesome, questing is there, but it's "throw-away" quality. Which goes back to my point - what designers choose to focus on tends to be the best thing in the game while other stuff tends to be "thrown in".
Only in your mind (and in the mind of some of others) has BW talked mostly/purely about story or quest content. If you'd take a look at this thread and take some time to actually read it through, then you'd realise that the number of story/quest related statements by BW people is only a small part of all the things they've actually talked about.
Most people however only care for the buzz words and have no interest to look further or deeper what's there: for SWTOR those buzzwords are 'story' and 'humongous budget'.
Also, Size does not equal "more to explore". Rift may have a small world, but it's world where you log in and what's going on around you is completely different every single time. You can re-explore the same zone on a daily basis find it always different. SWTOR (afaik) will have a totally static world, so once you've run through it, you're done. But it all depends on what there is to find. If all there is to find is the one-per-planed "interest point", i'm certain it'll be known to everyone in the game by end of first week and will be part of everyone's "leveling checklist", right behind "be sure to get max dark side points before 20 in order to use Black Armor".
There are also plenty of games with huge worlds that are totally uninteresting. Take Vanguard.. the world is massive, you run through it for hours... and find absolutely nothing interesting. On the other hand, htere is a world like LoTRO, which is not only gorgeous to explore for the hundreds of interest points, but lets you find lore-relevant locations and cool places to "just be". So far, nothing i've seen in videos or read in articles have made me think "oh boy, can't wait to get out there and explore the... [whatever[". Exploration in the recent BioWare games has been terrible. However, if you go back to the Baldur's Gate series, exploration was pretty cool. So there is precedent for them doing it right. So far, out of all themepark games, i think only LoTRO got exploration right. But that game is so massively rooted in the players immersion in the world, that it'll be hard to match.
While a dynamic environment is always a plus, WoW, and EQ2 that you played have a static world, LotrO has as well, and it didn't bother MMO gamers that much in their enjoyment and resubbing to their favorite MMO. The one-per-planet interest points is a blatant lie, so source link if you wish to continue that false statement. A lot of MMO gamers have already uttered their wish for Rift to be several times larger, people liked WoW's large, but still content filled world, so in general a vast world, with all kinds of content in it is better than small worlds.
You may not feel like exploring in SWTOR, but a lot of other people who actually had playtime in SWTOR feel otherwise. To play devil's advocate to your argument, I've seen or read nothing so far that makes me think that SWTOR's world or exploration in it will be uninteresting, in fact seeing and reading more of it has only made me more enthusiastic and interested in its worlds as an MMO gamer that loves exploring.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I think I understand what the OP and the people in the "hater" arena are getting at. And I also understand what the "fainbois" are getting at. Here to inject some mediation to the retard in the thread, here is Dominisi.
Its a class based system (Like WoW)
The "advanced classes" are really nothing more than the talent trees in WoW, except instead of 3 per class, there are two.
Where ToR differs is they have another layer of "specilization" to the mix with their version of the skill trees, with what we have been discussing thus far.
However..... with TOR's implementation of the class/skill system, what difference is there to WoW besides what bonuses you recieve from just clicking the "this is the advanced class I want to be button". To me the "advance classes" are just a paper thin illusion of specialization, because you are still picking trees that benifit your "chosen" advanced class.
I submit to you, that if they took away advanced classes entirely and just had the skill trees present that it would be a near copy of WoW and being as the "advanced class" is just a paper-thin illusion, it would not have any affect on game play, or the development of characters.
Being a pre-CU-NGE SWG player, I much perfer the skill based / tree hybrid system in which there were literally hundereds of different viable builds avalable to everybody with a "total skill cap" to prevent being over powered. It allowed for greater variety than the cookie cutter builds that the "talent tree" type system of character progression warrants in he long term.
I hope the e-thugs don't think my oppinion is wrong
If the class story arc's become less and less as you go further as far as percentage, and if most of the content is non-single player (and the class arc is anywhere near the 200 hours of story they suggest) then there is quite a bit of content out there that has nothing to do with the class story.
As far as suggesting that Bioware is hiding stuff or just saying "it's there". I dont know of too many other MMO's that released info on a weekly basis for 2+ years. Considering the recent flap over companions first not being allowed in Flashpoints, to their being allowed in Flashpoints but counting as a "slot". Even though Bioware kept saying "AT THIS TIME", I think it validates their policy for not releasing info on systems they are not 100% sure will be in-game in the condition they tell us about.
Dont get me wrong, we still dont know what the end-game is, we dont know a lot about PvP, but considering what they have said, I dont see any reason to doubt them. I will reserve judgement until they share, but they've delivered on their intimations to date, so before I suggest they dont have it, I'll wait and see what happens between now and release.
As of today they have released skill tree. It is a clone copy of the WoW skill tree. Where is the inovation that Biowear is known for? The last great hope for AAA titles has failed to create a new gaming experience.
I will give you a chance to go re-read what was stated...It may visually look like WoW, but mechanic wise is nothing like WoW. It is very similar to Age of Conans though...which is a great PvP strategy. I think you need to play more MMO's, I have 15 years plus in the genre.
Its still that big dissapointment when you see something as a "skill tree/talent tree" or whatever they choose to call it, still seizes to amaze me how retardet they can be to think that themepark mmo's is the way to go, look at all the new releases that have come out, after 1 month they drasticly fall in subscribers, because there is nothing new or innovative about it.
Perhaps I am looking at this wrong, but I don't personally believe that subscription numbers drop in the first few months after an MMO is released because it is a themepark OR a sandbox. To blame it solely on that is shortsighted to say the least. Now saying a new MMO looses customers after the free trial period that comes with the box due to a general lack of content, bugs, AND the game just not being what people thought it would be. The first two being pretty bad among new MMO's in the last couple of years.
If we can believe the hype surrounding SWTOR though, they are specifically trying to address that. Having 8 different questing lines based on your class totaling about 250 hours each to begin with. Pretty awesome for an altahoholic like me to be honest. Plus the world quests that are not tied to a class. Plus PvP. Plus Exploration, which has already been stated will be rewarded in some way. Plus crafting. Plus Flashpoints. Plus the sheer size of the 17 worlds.
Plain and simple the sheer scope of this game is rather epic for a new release. It seems to me that BioWare is trying to release a game with the Polish and Content of a game that has been out for several years, not bad in my opinion. On top of that, this game MIGHT actually manage to successfully combine the sandbox AND themepark into one gamefrom what I have been reading. Granted, nothing directly supports that, but if you read between the lines it kind of stands out.
Personally, I hope BioWare is extremely successful with this game if for no other reason than it will force other developers to actually release quality MMO's instead of "I know it's crap at release, but just wait a year" like most of the games that came out in the last few years.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Originally posted by arieste Originally posted by MMO.Maverick Say what you like about questing, it's still a very large part of the first 200-250 hours in a new MMORPG
Exactly. Last I checked, my /played time in EQ2 is around 8000 hours. Of this, 250 represent a whopping 3%.
This is why I fundamentally - at the design methodology level - disagree with BioWare seemingly putting the majority of their resources into what - in an MMO - is a minor part of the experience. I have little doubt whatsoever, that the 250 hours of (mostly) solo questing that BioWare delivers will be the BEST EVER in an mmo. What I'm saying is that if they do, we'll have 3% of the greatest MMO ever.
Just a couple of thoughts....
8000 hours is 333 days played. That's almost a full year of someone's life.
How long did it take you to get those 8000 hours? I'm going to guess it took some serious real life time,(as in over the course of many years) and I'm also going to guess that some of it came thru expansions, and that you did not get that whopping number during just the inital launch phase.
Just a basic question, do you think that is the "average" amount of hours played for most players?
I looked at my old WoW account, and found 1300 hours over a few years of play, and at times I was fairly hardcore. I also was able to level up 1-80 a few characters is around 5 days of played time, so 120 hours.
So considering that Bioware is breaking out 200 hours per class story (1600 hours of play, and remember that they are saying the majority of the content is non-class story) you feel that there isnt a solid amount of content for a release game?
I think I understand what the OP and the people in the "hater" arena are getting at. And I also understand what the "fainbois" are getting at. Here to inject some mediation to the retard in the thread, here is Dominisi.
Its a class based system (Like WoW)
The "advanced classes" are really nothing more than the talent trees in WoW, except instead of 3 per class, there are two.
Where ToR differs is they have another layer of "specilization" to the mix with their version of the skill trees, with what we have been discussing thus far.
However..... with TOR's implementation of the class/skill system, what difference is there to WoW besides what bonuses you recieve from just clicking the "this is the advanced class I want to be button". To me the "advance classes" are just a paper thin illusion of specialization, because you are still picking trees that benifit your "chosen" advanced class.
I submit to you, that if they took away advanced classes entirely and just had the skill trees present that it would be a near copy of WoW and being as the "advanced class" is just a paper-thin illusion, it would not have any affect on game play, or the development of characters.
Being a pre-CU-NGE SWG player, I much perfer the skill based / tree hybrid system in which there were literally hundereds of different viable builds avalable to everybody with a "total skill cap" to prevent being over powered. It allowed for greater variety than the cookie cutter builds that the "talent tree" type system of character progression warrants in he long term.
I hope the e-thugs don't think my oppinion is wrong
**slow clap that turns into a fast clap that turns into a chorus of clapping that turns into a standing ovation that quickly has a fanfare of music added as the camera begins to pan out slowly and then fade to white*
However..... with TOR's implementation of the class/skill system, what difference is there to WoW besides what bonuses you recieve from just clicking the "this is the advanced class I want to be button". To me the "advance classes" are just a paper thin illusion of specialization, because you are still picking trees that benifit your "chosen" advanced class.
I submit to you, that if they took away advanced classes entirely and just had the skill trees present that it would be a near copy of WoW and being as the "advanced class" is just a paper-thin illusion, it would not have any affect on game play, or the development of characters.
It's actually a better comparison to compare TOR's class/talent tree system with how it's done in EQ2 and AoC:
- in EQ2 you pick a generic class first (eg rogue) and at L20 you pick your definitive class (eg brigand or assassin)
- in AoC you have a class archetype (priest, soldier, rogue, mage), within that class archetype you can pick your definitive class, for example Conqueror, Dark Templar or Guardian, and then you have 2 class specific talent trees and 1 archetype tree that you share with other classes within that archetype class.
- in SWTOR you pick an (archetype) class first and at L10 you pick your definitive advanced class. Within that archetype class you have 2 (advanced) class specific talent trees and 1 you share with other classes within that archetype class. So, an SWTOR Guardian or Sentinel within the (archetype) class 'Jedi Knight' share a talent tree in the exact same way that a Conqueror, Dark Templar and Guardian within the archetype 'Soldier' share a talent tree in AoC.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
As of today they have released skill tree. It is a clone copy of the WoW skill tree. Where is the inovation that Biowear is known for? The last great hope for AAA titles has failed to create a new gaming experience.
I will give you a chance to go re-read what was stated...It may visually look like WoW, but mechanic wise is nothing like WoW. It is very similar to Age of Conans though...which is a great PvP strategy. I think you need to play more MMO's, I have 15 years plus in the genre.
Its still that big dissapointment when you see something as a "skill tree/talent tree" or whatever they choose to call it, still seizes to amaze me how retardet they can be to think that themepark mmo's is the way to go, look at all the new releases that have come out, after 1 month they drasticly fall in subscribers, because there is nothing new or innovative about it.
Perhaps I am looking at this wrong, but I don't personally believe that subscription numbers drop in the first few months after an MMO is released because it is a themepark OR a sandbox. To blame it solely on that is shortsighted to say the least. Now saying a new MMO looses customers after the free trial period that comes with the box due to a general lack of content, bugs, AND the game just not being what people thought it would be. The first two being pretty bad among new MMO's in the last couple of years.
If we can believe the hype surrounding SWTOR though, they are specifically trying to address that. Having 8 different questing lines based on your class totaling about 250 hours each to begin with. Pretty awesome for an altahoholic like me to be honest. Plus the world quests that are not tied to a class. Plus PvP. Plus Exploration, which has already been stated will be rewarded in some way. Plus crafting. Plus Flashpoints. Plus the sheer size of the 17 worlds.
Plain and simple the sheer scope of this game is rather epic for a new release. It seems to me that BioWare is trying to release a game with the Polish and Content of a game that has been out for several years, not bad in my opinion. On top of that, this game MIGHT actually manage to successfully combine the sandbox AND themepark into one gamefrom what I have been reading. Granted, nothing directly supports that, but if you read between the lines it kind of stands out.
Personally, I hope BioWare is extremely successful with this game if for no other reason than it will force other developers to actually release quality MMO's instead of "I know it's crap at release, but just wait a year" like most of the games that came out in the last few years.
Well i follow you to some point, but in general i just get the meh feeling , you know ? , they say this, they say that, but i havent seen any new game being released the last couple of years that made me all giddy with joy, except from when i played SWG pre cu way back then, or when Eve online first came out, even tho i still play eve on and off because its one of a kind, its unique and damn outright innovative !
However..... with TOR's implementation of the class/skill system, what difference is there to WoW besides what bonuses you recieve from just clicking the "this is the advanced class I want to be button". To me the "advance classes" are just a paper thin illusion of specialization, because you are still picking trees that benifit your "chosen" advanced class.
I submit to you, that if they took away advanced classes entirely and just had the skill trees present that it would be a near copy of WoW and being as the "advanced class" is just a paper-thin illusion, it would not have any affect on game play, or the development of characters.
It's actually a better comparison to compare TOR's class/talent tree system with how it's done in EQ2 and AoC:
- in EQ2 you pick a generic class first (eg rogue) and at L20 you pick your definitive class (eg brigand or assassin)
- in AoC you have a class archetype (priest, soldier, rogue, mage), within that class archetype you can pick your definitive class, for example Conqueror, Dark Templar or Guardian, and then you have 2 class specific talent trees and 1 archetype tree that you share with other classes within that archetype class.
- in SWTOR you pick an (archetype) class first and at L10 you pick your definitive advanced class. Within that archetype class you have 2 (advanced) class specific talent trees and 1 you share with other classes within that archetype class. So, an SWTOR Guardian or Sentinel within the (archetype) class 'Jedi Knight' share a talent tree in the exact same way that a Conqueror, Dark Templar and Guardian within the archetype 'Soldier' share a talent tree in AoC.
I totally agree with you - I just used WoW as an example, and we all know that WoW's character progression was a slightly modified copy of EQ etc which all came from DnD etc etc etc. Point being is I see the OPs point, it would be cool to see more variety like the SWG example I gave.
Comments
Honestly do people not believe that there are world quests, or arcs above and beyond your class story?
Info Gathered on TOR so Far WITH CITATIONS Head to that thread, and you can read what has, and hasnt been shared so far, and you can check the actual link so you can read the article for yourself. I'm not going to copy over the links for the quests part, but if you would like to see 'em, go have a look at the link cited. Bioware has focused on story because that's what is making TOR different from other MMO's, why on earth would they market their game by heavily pitching how it is just like other MMO's? The info is out there, and they havent hidden it, even if some folks arent interested enough to find out about it.
Quests:
Quest Info from - Gamespot
Some other Randomness that applies taken from various parts of the already address thread:
While a dynamic environment is always a plus, WoW, and EQ2 that you played have a static world, LotrO has as well, and it didn't bother MMO gamers that much in their enjoyment and resubbing to their favorite MMO. The one-per-planet interest points is a blatant lie, so source link if you wish to continue that false statement. A lot of MMO gamers have already uttered their wish for Rift to be several times larger, people liked WoW's large, but still content filled world, so in general a vast world, with all kinds of content in it is better than small worlds.
You may not feel like exploring in SWTOR, but a lot of other people who actually had playtime in SWTOR feel otherwise. To play devil's advocate to your argument, I've seen or read nothing so far that makes me think that SWTOR's world or exploration in it will be uninteresting, in fact seeing and reading more of it has only made me more enthusiastic and interested in its worlds as an MMO gamer that loves exploring.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I think I understand what the OP and the people in the "hater" arena are getting at. And I also understand what the "fainbois" are getting at. Here to inject some mediation to the retard in the thread, here is Dominisi.
Its a class based system (Like WoW)
The "advanced classes" are really nothing more than the talent trees in WoW, except instead of 3 per class, there are two.
Where ToR differs is they have another layer of "specilization" to the mix with their version of the skill trees, with what we have been discussing thus far.
However..... with TOR's implementation of the class/skill system, what difference is there to WoW besides what bonuses you recieve from just clicking the "this is the advanced class I want to be button". To me the "advance classes" are just a paper thin illusion of specialization, because you are still picking trees that benifit your "chosen" advanced class.
I submit to you, that if they took away advanced classes entirely and just had the skill trees present that it would be a near copy of WoW and being as the "advanced class" is just a paper-thin illusion, it would not have any affect on game play, or the development of characters.
Being a pre-CU-NGE SWG player, I much perfer the skill based / tree hybrid system in which there were literally hundereds of different viable builds avalable to everybody with a "total skill cap" to prevent being over powered. It allowed for greater variety than the cookie cutter builds that the "talent tree" type system of character progression warrants in he long term.
I hope the e-thugs don't think my oppinion is wrong
*side note*
If the class story arc's become less and less as you go further as far as percentage, and if most of the content is non-single player (and the class arc is anywhere near the 200 hours of story they suggest) then there is quite a bit of content out there that has nothing to do with the class story.
As far as suggesting that Bioware is hiding stuff or just saying "it's there". I dont know of too many other MMO's that released info on a weekly basis for 2+ years. Considering the recent flap over companions first not being allowed in Flashpoints, to their being allowed in Flashpoints but counting as a "slot". Even though Bioware kept saying "AT THIS TIME", I think it validates their policy for not releasing info on systems they are not 100% sure will be in-game in the condition they tell us about.
Dont get me wrong, we still dont know what the end-game is, we dont know a lot about PvP, but considering what they have said, I dont see any reason to doubt them. I will reserve judgement until they share, but they've delivered on their intimations to date, so before I suggest they dont have it, I'll wait and see what happens between now and release.
You lost all your hope because the skill tree looks like WoW ? Hilarious.
Perhaps I am looking at this wrong, but I don't personally believe that subscription numbers drop in the first few months after an MMO is released because it is a themepark OR a sandbox. To blame it solely on that is shortsighted to say the least. Now saying a new MMO looses customers after the free trial period that comes with the box due to a general lack of content, bugs, AND the game just not being what people thought it would be. The first two being pretty bad among new MMO's in the last couple of years.
If we can believe the hype surrounding SWTOR though, they are specifically trying to address that. Having 8 different questing lines based on your class totaling about 250 hours each to begin with. Pretty awesome for an altahoholic like me to be honest. Plus the world quests that are not tied to a class. Plus PvP. Plus Exploration, which has already been stated will be rewarded in some way. Plus crafting. Plus Flashpoints. Plus the sheer size of the 17 worlds.
Plain and simple the sheer scope of this game is rather epic for a new release. It seems to me that BioWare is trying to release a game with the Polish and Content of a game that has been out for several years, not bad in my opinion. On top of that, this game MIGHT actually manage to successfully combine the sandbox AND themepark into one gamefrom what I have been reading. Granted, nothing directly supports that, but if you read between the lines it kind of stands out.
Personally, I hope BioWare is extremely successful with this game if for no other reason than it will force other developers to actually release quality MMO's instead of "I know it's crap at release, but just wait a year" like most of the games that came out in the last few years.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
This is why I fundamentally - at the design methodology level - disagree with BioWare seemingly putting the majority of their resources into what - in an MMO - is a minor part of the experience. I have little doubt whatsoever, that the 250 hours of (mostly) solo questing that BioWare delivers will be the BEST EVER in an mmo. What I'm saying is that if they do, we'll have 3% of the greatest MMO ever.
Just a couple of thoughts....
8000 hours is 333 days played. That's almost a full year of someone's life.
How long did it take you to get those 8000 hours? I'm going to guess it took some serious real life time,(as in over the course of many years) and I'm also going to guess that some of it came thru expansions, and that you did not get that whopping number during just the inital launch phase.
Just a basic question, do you think that is the "average" amount of hours played for most players?
I looked at my old WoW account, and found 1300 hours over a few years of play, and at times I was fairly hardcore. I also was able to level up 1-80 a few characters is around 5 days of played time, so 120 hours.
So considering that Bioware is breaking out 200 hours per class story (1600 hours of play, and remember that they are saying the majority of the content is non-class story) you feel that there isnt a solid amount of content for a release game?
**slow clap that turns into a fast clap that turns into a chorus of clapping that turns into a standing ovation that quickly has a fanfare of music added as the camera begins to pan out slowly and then fade to white*
It's actually a better comparison to compare TOR's class/talent tree system with how it's done in EQ2 and AoC:
- in EQ2 you pick a generic class first (eg rogue) and at L20 you pick your definitive class (eg brigand or assassin)
- in AoC you have a class archetype (priest, soldier, rogue, mage), within that class archetype you can pick your definitive class, for example Conqueror, Dark Templar or Guardian, and then you have 2 class specific talent trees and 1 archetype tree that you share with other classes within that archetype class.
- in SWTOR you pick an (archetype) class first and at L10 you pick your definitive advanced class. Within that archetype class you have 2 (advanced) class specific talent trees and 1 you share with other classes within that archetype class. So, an SWTOR Guardian or Sentinel within the (archetype) class 'Jedi Knight' share a talent tree in the exact same way that a Conqueror, Dark Templar and Guardian within the archetype 'Soldier' share a talent tree in AoC.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Well i follow you to some point, but in general i just get the meh feeling , you know ? , they say this, they say that, but i havent seen any new game being released the last couple of years that made me all giddy with joy, except from when i played SWG pre cu way back then, or when Eve online first came out, even tho i still play eve on and off because its one of a kind, its unique and damn outright innovative !
List of SOE lies
I totally agree with you - I just used WoW as an example, and we all know that WoW's character progression was a slightly modified copy of EQ etc which all came from DnD etc etc etc. Point being is I see the OPs point, it would be cool to see more variety like the SWG example I gave.