Slapshot - I can't tell if your recent posts are filled with sarcasm or if you are actually starting to appreciate the game...
I remember you always used to be on a mission to destroy MO. I'm confused as to what is going on here lol...
Probably received a forum warning and decided to convert his rage into unfettered sarcasm. This is just speculation.
I would rather see it from the better sider. Comparing to others who gave their expert opinions in this forum did not even care about trying, he is ceratinly more open minded, as much as he actually tried it. I hope his expectation is realistic and does not get disappointed again, because even though the game is definitively on the right track, it cannot go as fast as everyone´s expectation.
It's a well understood fact that the vast majority of MortalOnline players do not use Xfire. I don't see any benifit of using Xfire myself, so why would I?
Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!
And..... it's back up today. If you are going to keep linking to it, perhaps you should cite what it says at the time. Clicking the link you posted yesterday sends me to today's numbers. I just happened to look at it yesterday so I know the number of users dropped to 15 or 16, but today it is back to 21. Numbers for 5/15/2011
I think we all agree that X-fire numbers are not terribly precise in evaluating the size of a game population (especially at low populations), but it at least gives a ballpark figure. From those ballpark figures, it looks like MO may have the same staying power as Darkfall or Fallen Earth (presuming similar baseline costs).
I am confident that when the revolutionary (and FREE) DAWN expansion launches in a few weeks it will meet widespread acclaim for how it breaks the mold of the traditional (themepark) expansion and opens up new and exciting avenues for sandbox gameplay. When that happens the XFIRE population will skyrocket. There is a reason that Henrick has built the game to accommodate something like 27,000 simultaneous users on the single server!
Too bad it has only about 1% of that
Yeah, we are all confident that Dawn will be all that it can (no sarcasm), just as MO is all that it can be.
Maybe they should sell the game to another dev.. who knows, maybe they will make a game.
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
Originally posted by BTrayaL
Originally posted by Slapshot1188
I am confident that when the revolutionary (and FREE) DAWN expansion launches in a few weeks it will meet widespread acclaim for how it breaks the mold of the traditional (themepark) expansion and opens up new and exciting avenues for sandbox gameplay. When that happens the XFIRE population will skyrocket. There is a reason that Henrick has built the game to accommodate something like 27,000 simultaneous users on the single server!
Too bad it has only about 1% of that
Yeah, we are all confident that Dawn will be all that it can (no sarcasm), just as MO is all that it can be.
Maybe they should sell the game to another dev.. who knows, maybe they will make a game.
If Earth Eternal could get another developer to buy it after its original team went bankrupt, I'm sure Star Vault would be able to sell off Mortal Online if it came down to that.
Well, according to that same interview with Tasos, Darkfall also has 100.000 subscribers. If that is the case then X-fire is totally unreliable for comparison (or Tasos was wrong/ misinterpreted). I don't know about the reliability of X-fire, but I do know it's more objective than Tasos.
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
Well, according to that same interview with Tasos, Darkfall also has 100.000 subscribers. If that is the case then X-fire is totally unreliable for comparison (or Tasos was wrong/ misinterpreted). I don't know about the reliability of X-fire, but I do know it's more objective than Tasos.
I think the 100k users might be a reference to a combination of the number of people who bought the game and accounts that signed up for the trial. But stating that your company has paid off all investments is a little harder to misinterpret.
Well, according to that same interview with Tasos, Darkfall also has 100.000 subscribers.
Do you speak Greek?
No I do not.
I was referring to this quote from the article cited "“More and more young Greek scientists conquer their ideas to the international market. Typical is the case of the initiators of the electronic game «Dark Fall», which was created in Greece before 2 years and rampant around the world with more than 100,000 users in over 150 countries and big profits for their creators.”"
And..... it's back up today. If you are going to keep linking to it, perhaps you should cite what it says at the time. Clicking the link you posted yesterday sends me to today's numbers. I just happened to look at it yesterday so I know the number of users dropped to 15 or 16, but today it is back to 21. Numbers for 5/15/2011
I am discussing the general trend as opposed to a single day snapshot. If you were to draw a trendline for the last month pertaining to hours played it would show a steady decline...
Sure you can find a day that it pops up... that's why you look at the trend.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Originally posted by osmunda "More and more young Greek scientists conquer their ideas to the international market. Typical is the case of the initiators of the electronic game «Dark Fall», which was created in Greece before 2 years and rampant around the world with more than 100,000 users in over 150 countries and big profits for their creators."
There is no single word about subscribers then and not to say that it most likely did not come from Tasos mouth.
Back on topic, rankwise smaller games on XFire will routinely jump all over the place with just minor changes in time played. The numbers separating them is usually pretty small.
MO's numbers seem to be working out to a fairly consistent number at this point. Like I said before, no one's claiming WoW numbers for the game, but it also doesn't seem to be without players at all - probably no worse than other small games as Osmunda pointed out.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
OmaliMMO Business CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,177
Originally posted by Rohn
Back on topic, rankwise smaller games on XFire will routinely jump all over the place with just minor changes in time played. The numbers separating them is usually pretty small.
MO's numbers seem to be working out to a fairly consistent number at this point. Like I said before, no one's claiming WoW numbers for the game, but it also doesn't seem to be without players at all - probably no worse than other small games as Osmunda pointed out.
Numerically, it isn't. That doesn't change the fact that, by Star Vault's own admission, the game isn't profitable. According to the latest financial report, they need 1,500 more subscribers to hit profitability.
Well, according to that same interview with Tasos, Darkfall also has 100.000 subscribers.
Do you speak Greek?
No I do not.
I was referring to this quote from the article cited "“More and more young Greek scientists conquer their ideas to the international market. Typical is the case of the initiators of the electronic game «Dark Fall», which was created in Greece before 2 years and rampant around the world with more than 100,000 users in over 150 countries and big profits for their creators.”"
Users probably means total boxes sold, where 100k is quite reasonable. I doubt Darkfall, or MO, has more than 10k subscribers, which shows how low the retention are for both of these games.
They simply bite of more than they could chew but I played Darkfall a couple of months ago and it is far more complete and playable than MO. But then again it is a fair bit older so I would say both of these games hold pretty much the same quality.
Numerically, it isn't. Not sure what you mean by that, The numbers clearly will vary from day to day, and with smaller sample size the numbers will fluctuate more. If you compare yesterdays numbers to Sunday's you'll see that the number of people playing for all the games except Perpetuum dropped. That shows nothing more significant than the fact that people have more free time on sunday than on Monday. The raw numbers can be affected alot by short term variations (weekends, holidays, finals, the release of portal 2). For similar games, these short term variables should be similar, so the numbers relative to each other can be useful to take short term variable into account
That doesn't change the fact that, by Star Vault's own admission, the game isn't profitable. According to the latest financial report, they need 1,500 more subscribers to hit profitability. Regrettably, they fired some of the staff. Presumably the number of people they let go was based on how far the were going to fall short of that new subscriber goal.
XFire doesn't give an accurate representation of the amount or time gamers are playing ANY game. Sorry Slap, I don't find it reliable.
That said, if the game was anything near a respectable amount of players, then Henrik would quote that when doing his press releases. Instead, they quote the number of forum users, a dubious number at best, and everybody knows it.
So the reality is that despite the fact that XFire is not really accurate, we all know that the population is terrible because Henrik will *never* quote it. You don't see World of Warcraft having an issue with publishing their numbers, because there's a lot of people. Similarly, other smaller games have also published their numbers, because they are turning a profit. Henrik has already admitted they aren't turning a profit, and in fact, they are losing quite a bit of money month over month. At some point that plug is going to get pulled, and that's why we saw the layoffs of a bunch of people. You can do the math to get a rough estimate of how many active subs there are by multiplying and subtracting financial data out of the reports they publish. It's not exact, but it also shows that a pretty picture is something NOT that is on the horizon.
MO has more problems than they have knowledge on how to fix them, and I don't see people subbing to a game that is known to be so problematic. If a game starts to get all jumpy and screwed up with lag and other issues with *no changes*, it means the game code is bad to begin with, and will just mess up on its own. They have fixed rubberbanding what, three, four, five times already? So if SV wants any subs to get into the game they'd abandon a mediocre "expansion" and work on fixing the core of the issues. But as is already noted, SV has no experience in development of any kind, so it's easier to introduce more broken fluff than to fix the problems they don't even know how to diagnose.
Originally posted by Omali Perpetuum peaks out at about 340 concurrent users according to their own figures, so Mortal Online having comparable numbers isn't too surprising.
Xfire numbers in no way imply subscriber numbers. Such comparisons and thinking are invalid.
Comments
Probably received a forum warning and decided to convert his rage into unfettered sarcasm. This is just speculation.
I would rather see it from the better sider. Comparing to others who gave their expert opinions in this forum did not even care about trying, he is ceratinly more open minded, as much as he actually tried it. I hope his expectation is realistic and does not get disappointed again, because even though the game is definitively on the right track, it cannot go as fast as everyone´s expectation.
Unfortunately it looks like the Xfire numbers are going backwards, but it's probably just everyone taking a break before the big DAWN expansion hits.
Let's hope so!
http://www.xfire.com/games/mrtonl/Mortal_Online/
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It's a well understood fact that the vast majority of MortalOnline players do not use Xfire. I don't see any benifit of using Xfire myself, so why would I?
Never trust a screenshot or a youtube video without a version stamp!
And..... it's back up today. If you are going to keep linking to it, perhaps you should cite what it says at the time. Clicking the link you posted yesterday sends me to today's numbers. I just happened to look at it yesterday so I know the number of users dropped to 15 or 16, but today it is back to 21. Numbers for 5/15/2011
MO:
Xfire Rank
#378
up from #410 yesterday
Highest: #263 on 2011-04-29
Xfire users playing per day
21
Minutes played per day
7,362
Darkfall:
Xfire Rank
#389
up from #424 yesterday
Highest: #49 on 2009-03-18
Xfire users playing per day
19
Minutes played per day
6,796
Fallen Earth:
Xfire Rank
#424
down from #407 yesterday
Highest: #92 on 2009-10-07
Xfire users playing per day
22
Minutes played per day
5,547
Perpetuum:
Xfire Rank
#580
down from #490 yesterday
Highest: #360 on 2011-01-30
Xfire users playing per day
9
Minutes played per day
2,448
EVE:
Xfire Rank
#16
up from #19 yesterday
Highest: #6 on 2008-12-18
Xfire users playing per day
2,005
Minutes played per day
503,355
I think we all agree that X-fire numbers are not terribly precise in evaluating the size of a game population (especially at low populations), but it at least gives a ballpark figure. From those ballpark figures, it looks like MO may have the same staying power as Darkfall or Fallen Earth (presuming similar baseline costs).
MO has the licensing costs for UE3 ($ ?). Meanwhile Darkfall owes $27 million to Greece http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/editorials/3222-Surlys-Column-State-of-the-Game-Darkfall-Razorwax-and-Aventurine-Heres-the-Rub and Fallen Earth has the development costs for what was expected to be a much larger game ($ ?),
^Darkfall recently paid back all its debts few months ago.
That article is from 2007. According to Tasos in February this year, all investments have been paid off.
Too bad it has only about 1% of that
Yeah, we are all confident that Dawn will be all that it can (no sarcasm), just as MO is all that it can be.
Maybe they should sell the game to another dev.. who knows, maybe they will make a game.
If Earth Eternal could get another developer to buy it after its original team went bankrupt, I'm sure Star Vault would be able to sell off Mortal Online if it came down to that.
Well, according to that same interview with Tasos, Darkfall also has 100.000 subscribers. If that is the case then X-fire is totally unreliable for comparison (or Tasos was wrong/ misinterpreted). I don't know about the reliability of X-fire, but I do know it's more objective than Tasos.
I think the 100k users might be a reference to a combination of the number of people who bought the game and accounts that signed up for the trial. But stating that your company has paid off all investments is a little harder to misinterpret.
Do you speak Greek?
No I do not.
I was referring to this quote from the article cited "“More and more young Greek scientists conquer their ideas to the international market. Typical is the case of the initiators of the electronic game «Dark Fall», which was created in Greece before 2 years and rampant around the world with more than 100,000 users in over 150 countries and big profits for their creators.”"
I am discussing the general trend as opposed to a single day snapshot. If you were to draw a trendline for the last month pertaining to hours played it would show a steady decline...
Sure you can find a day that it pops up... that's why you look at the trend.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
You also forgot to quote:
"Youll have to excuse the poor translation"
Back on topic, rankwise smaller games on XFire will routinely jump all over the place with just minor changes in time played. The numbers separating them is usually pretty small.
MO's numbers seem to be working out to a fairly consistent number at this point. Like I said before, no one's claiming WoW numbers for the game, but it also doesn't seem to be without players at all - probably no worse than other small games as Osmunda pointed out.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
Numerically, it isn't. That doesn't change the fact that, by Star Vault's own admission, the game isn't profitable. According to the latest financial report, they need 1,500 more subscribers to hit profitability.
Users probably means total boxes sold, where 100k is quite reasonable. I doubt Darkfall, or MO, has more than 10k subscribers, which shows how low the retention are for both of these games.
They simply bite of more than they could chew but I played Darkfall a couple of months ago and it is far more complete and playable than MO. But then again it is a fair bit older so I would say both of these games hold pretty much the same quality.
My gaming blog
5/16/11
MO:
#389 down from #378 yesterday Highest: #263 on 2011-04-29 Xfire users playing per day 17 Minutes played 4,976 per day
Fallen Earth:
#403 up from #424 yesterday Highest: #92 on 2009-10-07 Xfire users playing per day 16 Minutes played 4,610
Darkfall:
#405 down from #389 yesterday Highest: #49 on 2009-03-18 Xfire users playing per day 12 Minutes played 4,586
Perpetuum:
#577 up from #580 yesterday Highest: #360 on 2011-01-30 Xfire users playing per day 12 Minutes played 1,826
Eve:
#17 down from #16 yesterday Highest: #6 on 2008-12-18 Xfire users playing per day 1882 Minutes played 411,072
Am I reading this right? there's more xfire users playing MO than fallen earth, perpetuum, or even darkfall?
XFire doesn't give an accurate representation of the amount or time gamers are playing ANY game. Sorry Slap, I don't find it reliable.
That said, if the game was anything near a respectable amount of players, then Henrik would quote that when doing his press releases. Instead, they quote the number of forum users, a dubious number at best, and everybody knows it.
So the reality is that despite the fact that XFire is not really accurate, we all know that the population is terrible because Henrik will *never* quote it. You don't see World of Warcraft having an issue with publishing their numbers, because there's a lot of people. Similarly, other smaller games have also published their numbers, because they are turning a profit. Henrik has already admitted they aren't turning a profit, and in fact, they are losing quite a bit of money month over month. At some point that plug is going to get pulled, and that's why we saw the layoffs of a bunch of people. You can do the math to get a rough estimate of how many active subs there are by multiplying and subtracting financial data out of the reports they publish. It's not exact, but it also shows that a pretty picture is something NOT that is on the horizon.
MO has more problems than they have knowledge on how to fix them, and I don't see people subbing to a game that is known to be so problematic. If a game starts to get all jumpy and screwed up with lag and other issues with *no changes*, it means the game code is bad to begin with, and will just mess up on its own. They have fixed rubberbanding what, three, four, five times already? So if SV wants any subs to get into the game they'd abandon a mediocre "expansion" and work on fixing the core of the issues. But as is already noted, SV has no experience in development of any kind, so it's easier to introduce more broken fluff than to fix the problems they don't even know how to diagnose.
yes
Perpetuum peaks out at about 340 concurrent users according to their own figures, so Mortal Online having comparable numbers isn't too surprising.
Xfire numbers in no way imply subscriber numbers. Such comparisons and thinking are invalid.