Originally posted by Meowhead Originally posted by gobla
Basically. To give a very simple example. 1 skill which does A points of healing. 1 skill which does B points of healing and C points of damage. In order for these to be balanced A needs to be higher then B. Otherwise there's just no point to the first skill. Because A is higher then B characters focussing on support will pick the first skill since, when it comes to support, it's superior. A pure support skill has to provide superior support compared to a hybrid skill. Otherwise there's just no point to the pure skills.
It's a good thing people from OTHER games can't walk into GW2. ... wouldn't 'best support' be determined in comparison to other GW2 classes, rather than other games? :< So if you have a bunch of B/C skills and only a couple A skills, it would still be an optimal support build. (For GW2) You'd just be doing a lot of damage on accident. :< Plus skills mostly have some sort of cooldowns. So you will use B or C, if A has a recast timer of X seconds.
1 skill which does A points of healing. 1 skill which does B points of healing and C points of damage.
In order for these to be balanced A needs to be higher then B. Otherwise there's just no point to the first skill.
Because A is higher then B characters focussing on support will pick the first skill since, when it comes to support, it's superior.
A pure support skill has to provide superior support compared to a hybrid skill. Otherwise there's just no point to the pure skills.
It's a good thing people from OTHER games can't walk into GW2.
... wouldn't 'best support' be determined in comparison to other GW2 classes, rather than other games? :< So if you have a bunch of B/C skills and only a couple A skills, it would still be an optimal support build. (For GW2) You'd just be doing a lot of damage on accident. :<
Plus skills mostly have some sort of cooldowns. So you will use B or C, if A has a recast timer of X seconds.
Aren't I very lucky then that this was just an example and not an actual existing skill.....
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
The thing I'm looking forward to the most about not having to rely on a dedicated healer to have a viable group, is being able to have groups of, oh lets say 5 Thieves, and it work as a group and develop it's own tactics because of it. Or an elemental group, a warrior band. Doing this in a lot of other mmos would just not work.
They won't be able to do an exact analog for a healing class, no, but I think there's a supportive enough role for MOST people who are healers. Not all, obviously, but with the sort of price point it's at, it's not the world's biggest risk to find out.
Or, convince your friend to buy it, try their game, and see how it works. Since GW2 is a simple purchase though, it's not really that hefty of a life investment to find out whether you like it though.
I'd also say there's more of a variety in GW2 skills over pretty much any 8 class game ever... so it's not like you took an 8 class holy trinity game with a typical amount of skills, then spread out the support skills over all 8 classes.
There's what... at least 70 skills for the thief, the class with the least amount of weapon skills? That's not even including the racial skills you can pick from.
So I'm not sure the variety and amount of options per class is going to be so little that it would best be described as =few=.
I'm not saying it will be bad.
But take a good support class like the GW1 Monk. I can easily make over a dozen viable, different and interesting pure support builds on a Monk.
How many viable, interesting and different pure support builds will a guardian have? one? maybe two?
Most viable guardian builds won't be pure support. The few pure support builds that are there will likely rely on the same skill combinations.
Again, it won't be bad. I'm sure people can name dozens of trinity MMOs that also have only one or two viable pure support builds for a class. GW2 will probably provide a support class to equal those classes.
But there are healing classes out there who have several dozen interesting, different and viable support skills. Often with interesting class mechanics to back them up. GW2 isn't very likely to offer a support class that can equal those.
I see many many options for different support builds with the Guardian on here, and these aren't even all the abilities and traits we will have in the game. http://gw2.revgaming.net/Home/TraitsTool/
Another quote from Gobal -
"The question will really be how many of those utility skills are pure support. Likely a third of them ( 8 ) will have some support functionality. But as you could have hybrid abilities that are both supportive and damaging at the same time these wouldn't be optimal for someone going for a support build. Leaving you with 5 or so utility skills to pick from.
But let's say the guardian is more support focussed and has 10 viable utility skills for pure support and 3 viable weapons.
I still think that's a very limited class to play. As everone else will have over twice the available weapons and utility skills.
Focussed support characters simply have more options available because they can do with having a very high percentage of their abilities being support focussed. They can dedicate to support without having to sacrifice half their options."
Well here I believe your view on pure support is flawed. In Rift, both Archon and Bard are pure support classes. Everyone in Rift knows this and it isn't even a debate on whether these trees when spec'd out are fully support. Yet, their support abilities do dmg. as well. For example, the Archon will do dmg. to an enemy to get Pillaging Stone stacks or such. The Bard's Cadence heals but does dmg. as well. Just because a Guardian's abilities will have dmg. effects as well doesn't change the certain build for being purely support per say.
I don't quite understand that part, are you saying that skills that have both damaging and heal effects aren't good for support builds?
Basically.
To give a very simple example.
1 skill which does A points of healing. 1 skill which does B points of healing and C points of damage.
In order for these to be balanced A needs to be higher then B. Otherwise there's just no point to the first skill.
Because A is higher then B characters focussing on support will pick the first skill since, when it comes to support, it's superior.
A pure support skill has to provide superior support compared to a hybrid skill. Otherwise there's just no point to the pure skills.
Ummmm??? No.. Chloromancer, Rift. Best PvE healer in the game. It is full support, but it's dmging abilities are the source of its healing. The best route for it is B points of healing and C points of damage. They are the superior support as well, because they do good dmg. while doing the best healing, you will see them at around 500 dps if they are good, and their healing is usually around 900 hps. A pure support character can find superior hybrid skills and still remain pure support. As long as the ability still issues a supporting effect it doesn't break the characters mold of pure support. Yet when you issue in pure dmging abilities with no supporting effects, then you could safely say that isn't a pure support build.
I don't quite understand that part, are you saying that skills that have both damaging and heal effects aren't good for support builds?
Basically.
To give a very simple example.
1 skill which does A points of healing. 1 skill which does B points of healing and C points of damage.
In order for these to be balanced A needs to be higher then B. Otherwise there's just no point to the first skill.
Because A is higher then B characters focussing on support will pick the first skill since, when it comes to support, it's superior.
A pure support skill has to provide superior support compared to a hybrid skill. Otherwise there's just no point to the pure skills.
Ummmm??? No.. Chloromancer, Rift. Best PvE healer in the game. It is full support, but it's dmging abilities are the source of its healing. The best route for it is B points of healing and C points of damage. They are the superior support as well, because they do good dmg. while doing the best healing, you will see them at around 500 dps if they are good, and their healing is usually around 900 hps. A pure support character can find superior hybrid skills and still remain pure support. As long as the ability still issues a supporting effect it doesn't break the characters mold of pure support. Yet when you issue in pure dmging abilities with no supporting effects, then you could safely say that isn't a pure support build.
I don't think you understand what he's saying at all. The fact that this Chloromancer is the best healer while doing damage is a problem, because Rift has no need for real healers. Why would you bring, for example, Healer A who does 900 HPS, if Hybrid B does 900 HPS while doing 500 DPS at the same time. Chloromancer is overpowered if they do the best healing while also dealing considerable damage.
I don't quite understand that part, are you saying that skills that have both damaging and heal effects aren't good for support builds?
Basically.
To give a very simple example.
1 skill which does A points of healing. 1 skill which does B points of healing and C points of damage.
In order for these to be balanced A needs to be higher then B. Otherwise there's just no point to the first skill.
Because A is higher then B characters focussing on support will pick the first skill since, when it comes to support, it's superior.
A pure support skill has to provide superior support compared to a hybrid skill. Otherwise there's just no point to the pure skills.
Ummmm??? No.. Chloromancer, Rift. Best PvE healer in the game. It is full support, but it's dmging abilities are the source of its healing. The best route for it is B points of healing and C points of damage. They are the superior support as well, because they do good dmg. while doing the best healing, you will see them at around 500 dps if they are good, and their healing is usually around 900 hps. A pure support character can find superior hybrid skills and still remain pure support. As long as the ability still issues a supporting effect it doesn't break the characters mold of pure support. Yet when you issue in pure dmging abilities with no supporting effects, then you could safely say that isn't a pure support build.
I don't think you understand what he's saying at all. The fact that this Chloromancer is the best healer while doing damage is a problem, because Rift has no need for real healers. Why would you bring, for example, Healer A who does 900 HPS, if Hybrid B does 900 HPS while doing 500 DPS at the same time. Chloromancer is overpowered if they do the best healing while also dealing considerable damage.
No, because there are things they lack. Certain encounters call for certain things. Especially if you have a Rogue tank, it is sometimes troublesome for a Chloro because their heals build a little slower but are more powerful, and a Rogue tank has downtime on shield. Raiding situations call for Cleric heals, because they can do different things, like keep tanks hot'ed or shielded. You also don't ever want to bring more than 2 Chloro's because they will overwrite each other's Synthesis and can't heal each other. You then have Cleric builds that help with AoE healing and AoE dmg. reduc. Also, Chloro's aren't as affective in PvP. The argument that I am presenting is that a support character can do multiple affects on one ability if that ability still remains optimal and they will still be considered a support character.
Teamwork does not require extremely stratified class roles.
Teamwork requires... well, teamwork. (A little self-referential, but true. )
Thread still going ? Interesting...
Two things I would like to add:
1.(not related to quote) To all those who state that "all healers are pricks/sociopaths/fill in your preffered swear word here" or the healer class is preffered by such people. Such statements only show one thing. And that is that the author of such a statement has some serious problems.
2. (related to quote) Teamwork does not require teamwork. Teamwork requires or better said is based on dependency. In a system with strong dependencies between the team members there will most likely be more teamwork than in a system with weak dependencies.
In holy trinity a tank heavily depends on a healer, the healer depends on the dps and the dps depends on the tank. If any of those links fails the group fails. So they have to support and take care of each other.
In a system where every member is equal concerning his abilities the dependency between is much weaker. Therefore there is not such a stron need of teamwork.
In short, the GW2 approach weakens the dependencies between the team members compared to the holy trinity approach. Therefore there will probably less teamwork cause it is not required as much as in a holy trinity system. The need for teamwork is not completely removed but it is much lower and less complex.
But when I read some of those posts which I mentioned in 1. I am not sure why I post here at all anymore...
I wouldn't worry about overmuch. From what I've read the guardian is pretty much a healer and a tank wrapped into one bundle. No healers in this game, none at all. Haha. Since when mitigating damage is not considered healing?
I see many many options for different support builds with the Guardian on here, and these aren't even all the abilities and traits we will have in the game. http://gw2.revgaming.net/Home/TraitsTool/
Another quote from Gobal -
"The question will really be how many of those utility skills are pure support. Likely a third of them ( 8 ) will have some support functionality. But as you could have hybrid abilities that are both supportive and damaging at the same time these wouldn't be optimal for someone going for a support build. Leaving you with 5 or so utility skills to pick from.
But let's say the guardian is more support focussed and has 10 viable utility skills for pure support and 3 viable weapons.
I still think that's a very limited class to play. As everone else will have over twice the available weapons and utility skills.
Focussed support characters simply have more options available because they can do with having a very high percentage of their abilities being support focussed. They can dedicate to support without having to sacrifice half their options."
Well here I believe your view on pure support is flawed. In Rift, both Archon and Bard are pure support classes. Everyone in Rift knows this and it isn't even a debate on whether these trees when spec'd out are fully support. Yet, their support abilities do dmg. as well. For example, the Archon will do dmg. to an enemy to get Pillaging Stone stacks or such. The Bard's Cadence heals but does dmg. as well. Just because a Guardian's abilities will have dmg. effects as well doesn't change the certain build for being purely support per say.
Those bard heals are still primarily support abilities. Guardian abilities can not all be primarily support abilities. The guardian will also need damage and control abilities.
A pure support class' first concern is support. Almost all his abilities support in some way or form, even if they have alternate effects.
The guardian's first concern can not be support because that's not the way ANet is building him. His concerns are support, control and damage all equally. He can only have a part of his abilities be focussed on support, if the largest parts of his abilities are focussed on support then he's a broken class as he'll be lacking in those other roles.
Simple thing remains that if I build a guardian as full support then I can't pick half the options available to me. Because, in order for the game to function as they're advertising it, at least half the guardian's abilities need to be focussed on control and damage.
As a Bard/Archon I can pick whatever I want from the tree and still be pure support, no option is denied to me. I can play that class in it's entirety and still be pure support. I can't do that with the guardian.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
I see many many options for different support builds with the Guardian on here, and these aren't even all the abilities and traits we will have in the game. http://gw2.revgaming.net/Home/TraitsTool/
Another quote from Gobal -
"The question will really be how many of those utility skills are pure support. Likely a third of them ( 8 ) will have some support functionality. But as you could have hybrid abilities that are both supportive and damaging at the same time these wouldn't be optimal for someone going for a support build. Leaving you with 5 or so utility skills to pick from.
But let's say the guardian is more support focussed and has 10 viable utility skills for pure support and 3 viable weapons.
I still think that's a very limited class to play. As everone else will have over twice the available weapons and utility skills.
Focussed support characters simply have more options available because they can do with having a very high percentage of their abilities being support focussed. They can dedicate to support without having to sacrifice half their options."
Well here I believe your view on pure support is flawed. In Rift, both Archon and Bard are pure support classes. Everyone in Rift knows this and it isn't even a debate on whether these trees when spec'd out are fully support. Yet, their support abilities do dmg. as well. For example, the Archon will do dmg. to an enemy to get Pillaging Stone stacks or such. The Bard's Cadence heals but does dmg. as well. Just because a Guardian's abilities will have dmg. effects as well doesn't change the certain build for being purely support per say.
Those bard heals are still primarily support abilities. Guardian abilities can not all be primarily support abilities. The guardian will also need damage and control abilities.
A pure support class' first concern is support. Almost all his abilities support in some way or form, even if they have alternate effects.
The guardian's first concern can not be support because that's not the way ANet is building him. His concerns are support, control and damage all equally. He can only have a part of his abilities be focussed on support, if the largest parts of his abilities are focussed on support then he's a broken class as he'll be lacking in those other roles.
Simple thing remains that if I build a guardian as full support then I can't pick half the options available to me. Because, in order for the game to function as they're advertising it, at least half the guardian's abilities need to be focussed on control and damage.
As a Bard/Archon I can pick whatever I want from the tree and still be pure support, no option is denied to me. I can play that class in it's entirety and still be pure support. I can't do that with the guardian.
With the Bard you are still doing dmg. with those support abilities, and you are still doing control "in PvP and such" via mez.. No matter how you cut the cookie you can still spec out your Guardian to be more control oriented and you will still be doing dmg. as well. But you can easily, slot out weapons, and add traits that lean more towards the support side. Who cares if you're doing dmg? You will still be supporting your team? How does that make you any less a support char if you play it that way?
Teamwork does not require extremely stratified class roles.
Teamwork requires... well, teamwork. (A little self-referential, but true. )
Thread still going ? Interesting...
Two things I would like to add:
1.(not related to quote) To all those who state that "all healers are pricks/sociopaths/fill in your preffered swear word here" or the healer class is preffered by such people. Such statements only show one thing. And that is that the author of such a statement has some serious problems.
2. (related to quote) Teamwork does not require teamwork. Teamwork requires or better said is based on dependency. In a system with strong dependencies between the team members there will most likely be more teamwork than in a system with weak dependencies.
In holy trinity a tank heavily depends on a healer, the healer depends on the dps and the dps depends on the tank. If any of those links fails the group fails. So they have to support and take care of each other.
In a system where every member is equal concerning his abilities the dependency between is much weaker. Therefore there is not such a stron need of teamwork.
In short, the GW2 approach weakens the dependencies between the team members compared to the holy trinity approach. Therefore there will probably less teamwork cause it is not required as much as in a holy trinity system. The need for teamwork is not completely removed but it is much lower and less complex.
But when I read some of those posts which I mentioned in 1. I am not sure why I post here at all anymore...
Because, you fail to break out of old molds and see that teamwork can flourish in systems much different than the old shoe that is the holy trinity. Players will still need help, in PvE and PvP. Dynamic Events will scale to how many players are there, and bosses will become much more difficult. If everyone just does there own thing and doesn't coordinate well they will die. In a recent video at gamereactor one of the show hosts described going to ANet and playing the game. He and another group of players were going through a dynamic event, and they were unable to work together and succeed and were getting stomped. So some devs had to come in and help them. Dependency can be tweaked with other things than classes being completely dependent upon each other to function.
Also, in PvP, teams that work together and don't just do their own thing will shred teams who aren't coordinated. What will that cause? Dependency upon each other. In FPS, teams that do good work together, are there tanks and healers? No.. There doesn't have to be a tank and healer for teamwork to be important, and I believe this system will flourish without the gimmick mechanics and metagames that are based off of healing and tanking.
Guild Wars 2 will be a game with no dedicated healer class. If one does not like that, no one is going to force you into playing this game.
I myself find the concept of having no dedicated, healers and such very intereseting. Finding dungeons in WOW wasnt hard for me, since i was a healer/tank, but im looking forward to doing what i want not what others want me to do. In alot of raids i was stuck tanking, when i realy wanted to chill and do some hardcore dps. I want a game where i can do everything, without having to reroll spec/class and listen to others whining about me not tanking.
My son. The day you were born the very staff of Blizzard whispered the name, profit.
Guild Wars 2 will be a game with no dedicated healer class. If one does not like that, no one is going to force you into playing this game.
I myself find the concept of having no dedicated, healers and such very intereseting. Finding dungeons in WOW wasnt hard for me, since i was a healer/tank, but im looking forward to doing what i want not what others want me to do. In alot of raids i was stuck tanking, when i realy wanted to chill and do some hardcore dps. I want a game where i can do everything, without having to reroll spec/class and listen to others whining about me not tanking.
The healer is dead because ArenaNet wants to allow every profession to fill every role, so that you're never forced to play with people due to their profession, but instead you can choose the peope you team with based on their personality as opposed to their profession.
It makes perfect sense, really. In other sorts of games I play with the people I want to, not people of a specific class. In Magicka you can do everything, Magicka is very co-op based and you don't need a holy trinity in that, do you? People having trouble understnading this? Seriously. Play Magicka. Do it right now. Don't think. Don't respond. Just go and get Magicka, rope in a friend, and play it. Play Magicka, and then understand how Guild Wars 2 will work.
This thread should have died weeks ago, really. Healers were never necessary. Play Magicka.
Comments
... wouldn't 'best support' be determined in comparison to other GW2 classes, rather than other games? :< So if you have a bunch of B/C skills and only a couple A skills, it would still be an optimal support build. (For GW2) You'd just be doing a lot of damage on accident. :<
Plus skills mostly have some sort of cooldowns. So you will use B or C, if A has a recast timer of X seconds.
Aren't I very lucky then that this was just an example and not an actual existing skill.....
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
The thing I'm looking forward to the most about not having to rely on a dedicated healer to have a viable group, is being able to have groups of, oh lets say 5 Thieves, and it work as a group and develop it's own tactics because of it. Or an elemental group, a warrior band. Doing this in a lot of other mmos would just not work.
NINJA ATTACK!!
I see many many options for different support builds with the Guardian on here, and these aren't even all the abilities and traits we will have in the game. http://gw2.revgaming.net/Home/TraitsTool/
Another quote from Gobal -
"The question will really be how many of those utility skills are pure support. Likely a third of them ( 8 ) will have some support functionality. But as you could have hybrid abilities that are both supportive and damaging at the same time these wouldn't be optimal for someone going for a support build. Leaving you with 5 or so utility skills to pick from.
But let's say the guardian is more support focussed and has 10 viable utility skills for pure support and 3 viable weapons.
I still think that's a very limited class to play. As everone else will have over twice the available weapons and utility skills.
Focussed support characters simply have more options available because they can do with having a very high percentage of their abilities being support focussed. They can dedicate to support without having to sacrifice half their options."
Well here I believe your view on pure support is flawed. In Rift, both Archon and Bard are pure support classes. Everyone in Rift knows this and it isn't even a debate on whether these trees when spec'd out are fully support. Yet, their support abilities do dmg. as well. For example, the Archon will do dmg. to an enemy to get Pillaging Stone stacks or such. The Bard's Cadence heals but does dmg. as well. Just because a Guardian's abilities will have dmg. effects as well doesn't change the certain build for being purely support per say.
Ummmm??? No.. Chloromancer, Rift. Best PvE healer in the game. It is full support, but it's dmging abilities are the source of its healing. The best route for it is B points of healing and C points of damage. They are the superior support as well, because they do good dmg. while doing the best healing, you will see them at around 500 dps if they are good, and their healing is usually around 900 hps. A pure support character can find superior hybrid skills and still remain pure support. As long as the ability still issues a supporting effect it doesn't break the characters mold of pure support. Yet when you issue in pure dmging abilities with no supporting effects, then you could safely say that isn't a pure support build.
I don't think you understand what he's saying at all. The fact that this Chloromancer is the best healer while doing damage is a problem, because Rift has no need for real healers. Why would you bring, for example, Healer A who does 900 HPS, if Hybrid B does 900 HPS while doing 500 DPS at the same time. Chloromancer is overpowered if they do the best healing while also dealing considerable damage.
No, because there are things they lack. Certain encounters call for certain things. Especially if you have a Rogue tank, it is sometimes troublesome for a Chloro because their heals build a little slower but are more powerful, and a Rogue tank has downtime on shield. Raiding situations call for Cleric heals, because they can do different things, like keep tanks hot'ed or shielded. You also don't ever want to bring more than 2 Chloro's because they will overwrite each other's Synthesis and can't heal each other. You then have Cleric builds that help with AoE healing and AoE dmg. reduc. Also, Chloro's aren't as affective in PvP. The argument that I am presenting is that a support character can do multiple affects on one ability if that ability still remains optimal and they will still be considered a support character.
Thread still going ? Interesting...
Two things I would like to add:
1.(not related to quote) To all those who state that "all healers are pricks/sociopaths/fill in your preffered swear word here" or the healer class is preffered by such people. Such statements only show one thing. And that is that the author of such a statement has some serious problems.
2. (related to quote) Teamwork does not require teamwork.
Teamwork requires or better said is based on dependency. In a system with strong dependencies between the team members there will most likely be more teamwork than in a system with weak dependencies.
In holy trinity a tank heavily depends on a healer, the healer depends on the dps and the dps depends on the tank. If any of those links fails the group fails. So they have to support and take care of each other.
In a system where every member is equal concerning his abilities the dependency between is much weaker. Therefore there is not such a stron need of teamwork.
In short, the GW2 approach weakens the dependencies between the team members compared to the holy trinity approach. Therefore there will probably less teamwork cause it is not required as much as in a holy trinity system. The need for teamwork is not completely removed but it is much lower and less complex.
But when I read some of those posts which I mentioned in 1. I am not sure why I post here at all anymore...
I wouldn't worry about overmuch. From what I've read the guardian is pretty much a healer and a tank wrapped into one bundle. No healers in this game, none at all. Haha. Since when mitigating damage is not considered healing?
Those bard heals are still primarily support abilities. Guardian abilities can not all be primarily support abilities. The guardian will also need damage and control abilities.
A pure support class' first concern is support. Almost all his abilities support in some way or form, even if they have alternate effects.
The guardian's first concern can not be support because that's not the way ANet is building him. His concerns are support, control and damage all equally. He can only have a part of his abilities be focussed on support, if the largest parts of his abilities are focussed on support then he's a broken class as he'll be lacking in those other roles.
Simple thing remains that if I build a guardian as full support then I can't pick half the options available to me. Because, in order for the game to function as they're advertising it, at least half the guardian's abilities need to be focussed on control and damage.
As a Bard/Archon I can pick whatever I want from the tree and still be pure support, no option is denied to me. I can play that class in it's entirety and still be pure support. I can't do that with the guardian.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
(")("),,(")("),(")(")
With the Bard you are still doing dmg. with those support abilities, and you are still doing control "in PvP and such" via mez.. No matter how you cut the cookie you can still spec out your Guardian to be more control oriented and you will still be doing dmg. as well. But you can easily, slot out weapons, and add traits that lean more towards the support side. Who cares if you're doing dmg? You will still be supporting your team? How does that make you any less a support char if you play it that way?
Because, you fail to break out of old molds and see that teamwork can flourish in systems much different than the old shoe that is the holy trinity. Players will still need help, in PvE and PvP. Dynamic Events will scale to how many players are there, and bosses will become much more difficult. If everyone just does there own thing and doesn't coordinate well they will die. In a recent video at gamereactor one of the show hosts described going to ANet and playing the game. He and another group of players were going through a dynamic event, and they were unable to work together and succeed and were getting stomped. So some devs had to come in and help them. Dependency can be tweaked with other things than classes being completely dependent upon each other to function.
Also, in PvP, teams that work together and don't just do their own thing will shred teams who aren't coordinated. What will that cause? Dependency upon each other. In FPS, teams that do good work together, are there tanks and healers? No.. There doesn't have to be a tank and healer for teamwork to be important, and I believe this system will flourish without the gimmick mechanics and metagames that are based off of healing and tanking.
To put an end to the meaningless discussion:
Guild Wars 2 will be a game with no dedicated healer class. If one does not like that, no one is going to force you into playing this game.
I myself find the concept of having no dedicated, healers and such very intereseting. Finding dungeons in WOW wasnt hard for me, since i was a healer/tank, but im looking forward to doing what i want not what others want me to do. In alot of raids i was stuck tanking, when i realy wanted to chill and do some hardcore dps. I want a game where i can do everything, without having to reroll spec/class and listen to others whining about me not tanking.
My son. The day you were born the very staff of Blizzard whispered the name, profit.
Amen
Is this still going?
The healer is dead because ArenaNet wants to allow every profession to fill every role, so that you're never forced to play with people due to their profession, but instead you can choose the peope you team with based on their personality as opposed to their profession.
It makes perfect sense, really. In other sorts of games I play with the people I want to, not people of a specific class. In Magicka you can do everything, Magicka is very co-op based and you don't need a holy trinity in that, do you? People having trouble understnading this? Seriously. Play Magicka. Do it right now. Don't think. Don't respond. Just go and get Magicka, rope in a friend, and play it. Play Magicka, and then understand how Guild Wars 2 will work.
This thread should have died weeks ago, really. Healers were never necessary. Play Magicka.