do not listen to most of these people that say that you will always die to a veteran. also, dont buy a character because you learn about ships as you play the game. you will die in anything if you automatically start out in a battleship or T2 ship because you dont know the game mechanics. how about this? my favorite kill in eve was when i was in a rifter (noob ship) and i killed a megathron (battleship). you dont have to match the skillpoints of veterans, but outsmart them and have a great setup.
And also ask the veterans how they would feel if CCP reset everybody's skill points to 0, or decided to give new players 80 million free skill points. The outrage and screams would be heard across the EVE galaxy because, as any honest person will tell you, skill points mean A LOT.
CCP has been doing that for a couple of years, thats the reason there are so many options for new players today.
Explain?
They have not reset to 0 (that I am aware of), but have made attempts to expedite new player skill gain. For a while they had the double skill points while under 1.6 mil (or about there). Next they removed the training skills which, at least for me, reduced my peak SP/hour, but for a newer account, likely increased their SP per hour. Additionally, and someone can correct me if this has changed, but new accounts also get an extra neural remap which furhter ensures they can maintain peak SP/hour even if they change their focus of training (i.e. going from tank skills: int/mem, to weapon skills perc/will).
So, not a complete reset, but they have put some effort into trying to get new players more SP in less time without further buffing the vet players' skill gain. That said, the current system does not make it so a new player can 'catch up' in raw SP, so if that is a persons main concern they will likely be disappointed and I would argue, as many already have, that they are approaching the game with the wrong mindset. But that debate has been had plenty of times already.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Anyway the tl;dr of the thread is that it's still very possible to join the game and have a lot of fun. Since you can get a 21-day free trial for the asking (see the stickied thread) plus a crazy amount of stuff from the tutorials plus a couple of hundred mill when you sub up from the guy who gave you the buddy invite (half the price of a PLEX is the going rate IIRC) you can be off to a flying start and do a lot of fun crazy stuff in cheap ships for a long time before you have to worry about getting serious about grinding ISK.
I second that. I wish I had taken advantage of the offers made on this forum with regards to new players but I signed up after the 2 weeks.
The going rate right now is 10m just for registering (which lets you start off comfortably), and you get 300m if you activate the account within 2 weeks. That will hold you over for a good bit so you don't have to struggle to get decent modules.
do not listen to most of these people that say that you will always die to a veteran. also, dont buy a character because you learn about ships as you play the game. you will die in anything if you automatically start out in a battleship or T2 ship because you dont know the game mechanics. how about this? my favorite kill in eve was when i was in a rifter (noob ship) and i killed a megathron (battleship). you dont have to match the skillpoints of veterans, but outsmart them and have a great setup.
And also ask the veterans how they would feel if CCP reset everybody's skill points to 0, or decided to give new players 80 million free skill points. The outrage and screams would be heard across the EVE galaxy because, as any honest person will tell you, skill points mean A LOT.
CCP has been doing that for a couple of years, thats the reason there are so many options for new players today.
Explain? CCP has never reset veterans skill points to 0, nor have they given new players 80 million free skill points EVER.
In fact, even when they changed recently the need for new players to train the atrribute boosting skills, they actually reimbursed all the veterans with free skillpoints to compensate them.
This game is of and for the veterans. But if I were CCP I would probably operate the same way. EVE subscribers are a very loyal lot...
Ever since the speed nerf, CCP has made it very clear they are more interested in attracting new players than keeping old.
Speed nerf, new scanning system, new skill advancement all nerfed older players and helped new players.
This doesn't count the half dozen new game play features, none of which older/veteran players really care about.
The head of CCP even went as far as to say publicly that he wasn't going to address null sec lag until after WIS.
Sorry M8, anyone with any real knowledge of the game knows how CCP feels about attracting new players, and knows about the thousands upon thousands of veteran rage post on the forum.
The Truth is, older players have been back peddling in this game for a very long time, and anyone that doesn't understand this hasn't been keeping up with EVE.
do not listen to most of these people that say that you will always die to a veteran. also, dont buy a character because you learn about ships as you play the game. you will die in anything if you automatically start out in a battleship or T2 ship because you dont know the game mechanics. how about this? my favorite kill in eve was when i was in a rifter (noob ship) and i killed a megathron (battleship). you dont have to match the skillpoints of veterans, but outsmart them and have a great setup.
And also ask the veterans how they would feel if CCP reset everybody's skill points to 0, or decided to give new players 80 million free skill points. The outrage and screams would be heard across the EVE galaxy because, as any honest person will tell you, skill points mean A LOT.
CCP has been doing that for a couple of years, thats the reason there are so many options for new players today.
Explain? CCP has never reset veterans skill points to 0, nor have they given new players 80 million free skill points EVER.
In fact, even when they changed recently the need for new players to train the atrribute boosting skills, they actually reimbursed all the veterans with free skillpoints to compensate them.
This game is of and for the veterans. But if I were CCP I would probably operate the same way. EVE subscribers are a very loyal lot...
You are so wrong and clueless. I would be embarrased. Eve vets usually can afford to plex their accounts. Your logic is sooo misplaced and incorrect lol.
Again as someone that just started from scratch and is currently enjoying a great expansion campaign in null sec, you're full of crap.
You can disagree with me of course, but I actually am an ex-veteran myself and know a lot about the game. Many EVE vets not only plex their accounts these days but they plex their 1 or 2 alt accounts as well. I wouldn't use that as an argument that this game is not veteran-centric though. LOL. Quite the contrary.
If you are a noob not only do the vets have a 100 million+ skill point advantage on you with their main, they probably have 1 or 2 alt accounts that they use to further increase their advantage.
But I am glad you are enjoying it: I had a lot of fun a few years ago in the game, as I've said before. And to all those who haven't tried it please do the free trial and don't trust what anybody tells you including myself. That is a good pre-EVE lesson right there. And don't open any cans even if they say there is free candy inside. LOL...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Hell I got in on a 1.6 bil legion kill this past weekend on my little rifter tackling his ass and having 3 other buddies finish them off. My rifter is also a terror at decloaking cloaky fags.
So you went against a single ship with 3 buddies backing you, ie a 4v1 fight, and you brag about it. Sure, that '1.6bil legion kill' would have had a better equips and higher skills but your point is moot unless you faced this "vet" on equal footing OR you 4 faced off against 4 "Vets", so that other guy's word on "Vets having an advantage" holds.
Again I'll restate - This isn't a 1v1 game. The people complaining about being at a disadvantage in PvP to Vets are just being whiny girls that want to be able to solo everything in the game. This is a team game and in a team game the only real disadvantage you will be in PvP is the lack of flexibility when it comes to fleet comps.
Some more tunnel vision being shown here. What if you and a couple of newb friends, you know not a '1v1' but a 'team' of 3 peeps, went against 3 vets and got your asses handed to them in record time? This isnt a 1v1 game after all, so its common sense to expect that "vets" would have bunched up with fellow vets (or the milder version of a player playing for around 3 to 4 years: vets-in-training). So a team of noobs would be eaten and spit out by a team of vets, UNLESS ofcourse you can catch a '1.6bil legion kill' by outnumbering him 4 to 1. Getting an upperhand by outnumbnering a sole player works in most games, sandboxes in particular. So again you fail to counter that guy's point of "Vets having an advantage" over other players.
I've been able to do serious damage in my hurricane in PvP even without t2 guns and a full set of support skills. Will a vet in the same ship be able to beat me 1v1? Probably, but that's not what this game is built on.
So what is the game built on? Lone big ships getting ganked by a group of 4 small ships? You can do 'serious damage' in your hurricane even without t2 guns, good on you chum. But a vet would slam noobs like you out of the ballpark in a 1v1/3v3/50v50 fight simply because they have been playing for longer and got the funds to fly bigger, faster, meaner ships with massive firepower and also they got the time earned skills to do it and finally they have been playing long enough to understand nearly every aspect of the game (its afterall the meaning of the word Vet) and will be near impossible to beat by said noobs given they dont commit a fundamental screw up. But according to you, apparently EvE's battles arent built on having better ships, bigger weapons or higher skills...but 4v1 fights. So you again fail at countering and by now your attempts at TRYING to prove your point is becoming utterly pathetic.
People like gainesvilleg are exactly what's wrong with MMOs today. The whole insta-gratification crowd that needs to be as epic as people playing the game far longer than you have or else they can't enjoy the game.
I beg to differ. WoWTroll mentality, like the one you portray, is what is wrong with MMOs today. Angry gamers who lash out at anyone saying anything remotely negative about their current MMO obsession over the safety of the internet is by far worse than this "insta-gratification crowd" you speak of. It isnt a crime to expect, to someday stand on par with a 7 year vet and play on equal footing, and actually EXPECTING to be the underdog forever more without ever becoming as "epic" as people playing the game far longer shows some serious personality issues. Way to go on aiming to be a complete Average Joe Loser, in a "sandbox" game to boot!
I tired EvE, I dint get into it simply because of the time investment it requires. Since I spend very little time on MMOs before getting burned out on it and moving onto the next one. But what is said about EvE Vets having an advantage is absolutely true and only a blind idiot would say otherwise.
Sure you can have fun, do your thing and go fanboi gaga over EvE even if you start out right now, but the truth always remains that Vets are better than you in EvE. You can run from them when you dont have the advantage, you can group up with them to feel safer or you can just run away from them like a headless chicken but its a FACT that someone who just starts now (or started from scratch earlier this year) would have his ship popped if its was a 1v1(you VS vet), a 3v3(you 3 noobs VS 3 vets) or a 100v100(you 100 noobs....against a hundered vets, go figure) scenario. But hey now, you can always group up WITH a vet corp. and run around with the big guys, but what the blind idiots fail to see is that even to play safe and have fun you WILL need a vet to hold your hand or have a clear advantage of numbers on your side.
Try the free trial, get a feel for the game, but take the 'advice' from all these "WoWTrolls" who resort to making silly statements like "LOL DUEL PAWNS" with a grain of salt
This about sums the learning curve of eve up... Lol joking aside... Its a very fun game, can become very tedius... thats why i play in small doses ( 1-3 month eve stints then take an equal time break ) helps keep it fresh and diludes the tedium
Well without wading waist deep into the arguments here, I can tell you that I recently tried the trial on EVE Online and ended up buying the game. But I have tried EVE many times before and I never got into it. Really you need the right mindset BEFORE you start playing. This game is insanely complicated, and if you go in expecting a bread crumb trail of quests showing you the way to glory (similar to all those games the OP mentioned) then you will be very disappointed and end up quitting in a few weeks. I still recommend EVE, but only if you know what you are getting into.
There will be lots of reading, just hitting "Accept" for a mission without reading like in WoW will surely get you killed.
You will be told a million different ways on how you "should" play the game.
There is a lot of patience required, you cannot advance faster by playing more.
I would not consider corporations (guilds) to be optional. If you do not join one, you will quit. You need them and they need you.
If you like being a jack of all trades EVE might not be right for you, specialization is of the utmost importance.
Oh... and if you do decide to get the game I recommend buying the Commissioned Officer Edition as soon as you decide to pay to play. You get a +3 to all stats booster (works for the first 35 days of your character's life) and equates to approximately 15% faster skill gain for your first month of play.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
If you are a noob not only do the vets have a 100 million+ skill point advantage on you with their main, they probably have 1 or 2 alt accounts that they use to further increase their advantage.
OK, you're an EVE vet, so I'm going to ask some questions.
I have a charcter thats roughly 3 yrs, 9 months old, but I took 6 months off (unsubbed)
He has roughly 65M SPs. Of course there are veterans out there probably with 120M SPs, so according to your theory they must be able to totally own me. I'm just having a hard time understanding how they'll be able to do that.
My Gunnery Skills are at 17M SP's. I have no Captial ship skills. (don't want to fly them).
Outside of Spec skills which are at 4 I have all available gunnery skills at level 5 for every type of gun in EVE. I give up 2% if anyone decided to train to 5 on the spec skills. 2% will not win the day, esp if I get the first volley in with the right fit.
Wait, you need fit ships right? I have 17M in spaceship command. That translates to level 5 skills in every standard hull for every race in the game. There really isn't a small hull in the game I can't fly to at least level 4, and I'm training hard right now for Command Ships 5. I can fly a Damnation at full 5's once that's done, something few in game can say no matter how many SP's they have.
I could go on, but in every combat area that's important I have my skills at level 5, there' s no way for anyone to be any better than I am from a strictly skill point position.
Yet, I'll can be (and am) routinely beaten by pilots that really know how to fly their ships well. Don't know how they do it (mostly practice I suspect) but they get into the proper gun range every time, don't forget some minor detail like turning on their hardners or whatever, (LOL) and I can be easily smoked by someone with 5M SP's, especially if I showed up for a long range battle and he shows up at close range ready for knife fight.
So I solve that problem pretty easily, I try to bring friends where ever I go, because as they say, if you ever find yourself in a fair fight in EVE, you're doing it wrong.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You speak as though having fun was a dangerous distraction from the Serious Business Of ~Winning At MMOs~
Well, to be honest, the vets are just as adamant about not giving back any of their skill points. Why is that do you think? Perhaps because one's fun in an MMO does have a lot to do with how good you are at it. And veterans massive and perpetual skill point advanatage ensure they will always be better than the newer players. FOREVER.
I say make the game have real risk not just easily replaced ISK risk like it exists today. I say have clones only reserve up to 40 million skill points total, with a total loss of skill upon death back to 40 million skill points.
What say you veterans? After all, skill points are pretty meaningless anyway right?
<sound of crickets chirping>
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
You speak as though having fun was a dangerous distraction from the Serious Business Of ~Winning At MMOs~
Well, to be honest, the vets are just as adamant about not giving back any of their skill points. Why is that do you think? Perhaps because one's fun in an MMO does have a lot to do with how good you are at it. And veterans massive and perpetual skill point advanatage ensure they will always be better than the newer players. FOREVER.
I say make the game have real risk not just easily replaced ISK risk like it exists today. I say have clones only reserve up to 40 million skill points total, with a total loss of skill upon death back to 40 million skill points.
What say you veterans? After all, skill points are pretty meaningless anyway right?
You've seen this question answered many times, so you're just trolling. If I answer, you'll just handwave it or ignore it.
Anyone have any advice or tips as to where of how I can get started and situated?
I tried to play at one point but lacked a proper corporation and spent most of my time flying around trying to assemble a proper noob ship, and it ended up being really boring.
I hate to sound like a beggar, but I would really appreciate it if someone could be a bro and send me a 21 day free trial. The extra week really helps, and I want to make sure I'm into it before I sub.
Additionally, can anyone recommend a good starting corp that would be willing to help new players?
Looking to eventually get into 0 sec for some PvP when I'm ready.
Waiting for: Archeage, Darkfall 2.0, and Planetside 2.
R.I.P Shadowbane; The best MMORPG I've ever played...
Check out my amateur gaming blog at: Thegamingbible.com
You speak as though having fun was a dangerous distraction from the Serious Business Of ~Winning At MMOs~
Well, to be honest, the vets are just as adamant about not giving back any of their skill points. Why is that do you think? Perhaps because one's fun in an MMO does have a lot to do with how good you are at it. And veterans massive and perpetual skill point advanatage ensure they will always be better than the newer players. FOREVER.
I say make the game have real risk not just easily replaced ISK risk like it exists today. I say have clones only reserve up to 40 million skill points total, with a total loss of skill upon death back to 40 million skill points.
What say you veterans? After all, skill points are pretty meaningless anyway right?
You've seen this question answered many times, so you're just trolling. If I answer, you'll just handwave it or ignore it.
No I am not trolling I am involved in a discussion about what new players should expect when they play EVE, and it evolved into what it often does is a discussion about skill points. I don't say those that call me "ignorant" or a "troll" are trolling just because they are mean spirited and disagree with me and call me names.
So why call me a troll just because you disagree with me. I am not being mean spirited nor calling anybody names, despite the fact others are doing that to me.
I just take serious issue with those that say skill points are meaningless, which many veterans often do. But these same veterans would scream bloody murder if you took their skill points away, which I feel proves my point. But that is my opinion, true.
And again, to those who are curious about EVE, do the free trial and have some fun. Why not?
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Try the trial. That's what its there for. I loved EVE and it has a great tutorial that shows you the game and does an amazing job at helping you understand it well.
You speak as though having fun was a dangerous distraction from the Serious Business Of ~Winning At MMOs~
Well, to be honest, the vets are just as adamant about not giving back any of their skill points. Why is that do you think? Perhaps because one's fun in an MMO does have a lot to do with how good you are at it. And veterans massive and perpetual skill point advanatage ensure they will always be better than the newer players. FOREVER.
I say make the game have real risk not just easily replaced ISK risk like it exists today. I say have clones only reserve up to 40 million skill points total, with a total loss of skill upon death back to 40 million skill points.
What say you veterans? After all, skill points are pretty meaningless anyway right?
ER, you do understand that the primary goal behind EVE is to minimize your risk in every thing you do right? So why does your suggestion make any sense?
This is like arguing for permadeath in a fantasy MMORPG, no one would play.
Why would we give back anything? We played and paid for the game for years, yet still CCP leaves in mechanics that lets some snot noze 6 month old charcter kill us. WTF is up with that? If anything I'm the victim here!!!!!
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Anyone have any advice or tips as to where of how I can get started and situated?
I tried to play at one point but lacked a proper corporation and spent most of my time flying around trying to assemble a proper noob ship, and it ended up being really boring.
I hate to sound like a beggar, but I would really appreciate it if someone could be a bro and send me a 21 day free trial. The extra week really helps, and I want to make sure I'm into it before I sub.
Additionally, can anyone recommend a good starting corp that would be willing to help new players?
Looking to eventually get into 0 sec for some PvP when I'm ready.
LOL, Rule one, never drop a message like this into the middle of a flamewar, a huge risk of being ignored.
But here, start off by reading through this guide, great start, but know that the Internet is full of dozens of specialize ones you'll eventually end up reading one day.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
this comes up every week. If a new player comes to the boards and asks if he can ever catch up to vets in sp, it is obvious that he can't due to the time based skill gains. Telling a new player that he CAN'T ever be viable in pvp, trade, or industry b/c he's so far behind vets, is false. As it's has been over and overly discussed sp are tools by which players engage in different activities.
Telling a new player that he should purchase a new character off the bazaar so he can have access to more sp is a guaranteed receipe for failure. If any of you that claim that, did you do that? Did you start the game with no idea how to fly even a T1 frigate and buy a high sp toon, fit a battleship/HAC/Recon with t2 mods, rigs, undock and become L33T at PvP? I won't believe that unless I see a KM. That is the worst possible advice anyone could give a new player.
Common sense would dictate you learn how to fly small, cheap ships fitted with cheap gear to learn the game mechanics. If I gave you a highly trained toon in DF with all the shinies..would you own veterans that have been playing for 22 months? I don't think so. EvE isn't a twitch based game, so it is even less intutive.
Buying toons is for veteran players that want to add another toon to assist them do other activities such as building, mining, invention or more nefarious activities like spying. A new player buying a high sp toon is a ridiculous suggestion and a guaranteed path to becoming a crybaby.
Again, I want to see an EvEMON skillplan that requires 2 years or some arbitary number that makes someone "viable" in PvP. Until someone produces a link to this information, this type of posts are only trollbait. Produce or you are lying.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die Hiatus: EvE Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh) Interested in: better games in general
Ok, here is one other idea for allowing accelerated skill point increase to give new players a chance to catch the veterans: the ability to buy skill points with ISK.
The price per skill point could be based off of a formula that makes it increasingly expensive the higher your skill point total is, and be capped at a point where nobody can pass the highest skill point player in EVE.
This way it still gives veterans an advantage, but allows newer players to accelerate thier skill point gains based on grinding ISK.
Sounds like a good idea to me what about it veterans? Or are you unwilling to give up your skill point advantage under any circumstance?
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I would be more than happy to let people buy skill points. The toon you see in this picture is not a reflection of his sp, but MY PLAYER SKILL. He is trained to fly caps. He can build outposts. He can refine anything at a perfect rate. He can do alot of stuff...but he can't do any of those things w/o ME pushing the buttons. He can only do what I tell him to do. Because I trained Anchoring to V, he can deploy a T2 Large Bubble. Placing that bubble however is entirely up to me. I could put it where ever I want, but that is entirely up to me.
Placement of that bubble MEANS something. It means whether you get away in your ship with 10 t2 blueprints or not. My toons ability to USE T2 bubbles only goes so far..b/c I, THE PLAYER, have to anchor it.
If someone wanted to buy sp, that's fine with me. I could care less. I trained the first 70 million sp or so w/o a skillqueue, so I missed alot of time. I had to set an alarm in the middle of the night, to switch a skill. However, I was in favor of a skillqueue b/c it is a game after all.
You want to buy sp, be my guest. I only enjoy an advantage over new players b/c of my EXPERIENCE, not my sp. I have killed many, many higher sp toons than mine, and it didn't have anything to do with whether I could use t2 guns or not.
Edit:spelling
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die Hiatus: EvE Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh) Interested in: better games in general
I would be more than happy to let people buy skill points. The toon you see in this picture is not a reflection of his sp, but MY PLAYER SKILL. He is trained to fly caps. He can build outposts. He can refine anything at a perfect rate. He can alot of stuff...but he can't do any of those things w/o ME pushing the buttons. He can only do what I tell him to do. Because I trained Anchoring to V, he can deploy a T2 Large Bubble. Placing that bubble however is entirely up to me. I could put it whereever I want, but that is entirely up to me.
Placement of that bubble MEANS something. It means whether you get away in your ship with 10 t2 blueprints or not. My toons ability to USE T2 bubbles only goes so far..b/c I, THE PLAYER, have to anchor it.
If someone wanted to buy sp, that's fine with me. I could care less. I trained the first 70 million sp or so w/o a skillqueue, so I missed alot of time. I had to set an alarm in the middle of the night, to switch a skill. However, I was in favor of a skillqueue b/c it is a game after all.
You want to buy sp, be my guest. I only enjoy an advantage of new players b/c of my EXPERIENCE, not my sp. I have killed many, many higher sp toons than mine, and it didn't anything to do with whether I could t2 guns or not.
Edit:spelling
I wish all current veterans were as open minded as you. I don't think the idea of buying skill points with ISK would go over well with most of the current veterans I have dialogued with. Many would I believe threaten to quit or demand refunds. I was a veteran once, and I admit I enjoyed having skill point advantage over others at the time.
But I will also agree to disagree on the nature of skill point advantage. Veterans are quick to point out the importance of actual personal skill versus skill points, and I don't dispute that. But to say having multiple 5% advantages in support skills, or that having better ships with more firepower, larger capacitors, better armor, etc are not advantages I think is being disingenuous...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I'm for buying SPs as well (75msp Character here).
I can understand however if CCP wanted to put some caps on it however.
Perhaps you can only buy SP if you are below 50 million SP, 25, 75... whatever. Perhaps you can only buy upto 10% of your Total SP?
I also really like the idea of extending the idea behind implants that double your SP rate. I definitely would like to see these put so that lower levels can feel like they are "catching up"
I dont know about other players, but it was around 15 million SP that I started to feel PvP viable. I am all for helping new players reach that goal quicker.
New players could double their XP for the first 6 or 12 months and it would all be good in my book.
We need to start thinking of MMO's as we do music or literature or the movies. There is not one MMO or one game that will be universally satisfactory to everyone's taste. MMO's don't come in one genre just as books or music doesn't come in one genre. Change and innovation is a good thing in the MMO industry just as it is in literature and music, but every MMO doesn't need to push the envelope or be cutting edge to be "good" or fun. It just needs to be good. The same is true for music. The same is true for books or for movies. Music evolves. MMO's evolve. Storytelling evolves. And in doing so, it doesn't make obsolete or not enjoyable everything that's been done before.
I'm for buying SPs as well (75msp Character here).
I can understand however if CCP wanted to put some caps on it however.
Perhaps you can only buy SP if you are below 50 million SP, 25, 75... whatever. Perhaps you can only buy upto 10% of your Total SP?
I also really like the idea of extending the idea behind implants that double your SP rate. I definitely would like to see these put so that lower levels can feel like they are "catching up"
I dont know about other players, but it was around 15 million SP that I started to feel PvP viable. I am all for helping new players reach that goal quicker.
New players could double their XP for the first 6 or 12 months and it would all be good in my book.
In my formula the cap is the highest skilled player, and even that would be very difficult to achieve as the formula has price per skill point rising quickly as you approach this cap. At some point it just wouldn't be worth it to spend the ISK on skill points, but the option would still be there if you are really that determined to get there.
I think psychologically this would improve the prospects for the noobs, knowing that through hard work and skill they will eventually reach an absolute even playing field with even the oldest of the vets...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I would be more than happy to let people buy skill points. The toon you see in this picture is not a reflection of his sp, but MY PLAYER SKILL. He is trained to fly caps. He can build outposts. He can refine anything at a perfect rate. He can alot of stuff...but he can't do any of those things w/o ME pushing the buttons. He can only do what I tell him to do. Because I trained Anchoring to V, he can deploy a T2 Large Bubble. Placing that bubble however is entirely up to me. I could put it whereever I want, but that is entirely up to me.
-snip-
I wish all current veterans were as open minded as you. I don't think the idea of buying skill points with ISK would go over well with most of the current veterans I have dialogued with. Many would I believe threaten to quit or demand refunds. I was a veteran once, and I admit I enjoyed having skill point advantage over others at the time.
But I will also agree to disagree on the nature of skill point advantage. Veterans are quick to point out the importance of actual personal skill versus skill points, and I don't dispute that. But to say having multiple 5% advantages in support skills, or that having better ships with more firepower, larger capacitors, better armor, etc are not advantages I think is being disingenuous...
multiple 5% increases in various skills are an advantage...which is equalized by having friends. You want an extra 5% to your 1400mm T2 arty? Bring a friend in a tempest or a typhoon. You want 5% more armor repping, bring a friend with a remote repper or armor repping drones. No one ship or pilot is bigger than the math in EvE. No one. I don't care how many sp you got..put Dr. Caymus in a titan or any ship with max skills, faction gear, maxed everything. Give me two or three knowledgable pilots with a few ships, and we will bring him down. It's that simple.
When I first started, I sorta looked at like many new peeps do...'wow, i'm never gonna get that many", but fortunately I got with vets that made me understand that with alot of sp comes more expensive clones. People that never leave hisec and rarely lose ships or only ever engage their guns on a NPC target, don't get that. No ship is invulnerable, nor is any pilot so great that it takes tons of others to bring him down.
You know how I learned that? One of my first times I got caught in a bubble..i was in a vexor, heavily plated with good drone skills. Three dipshit pilots could barely kill me, but i got one of them before I went down. I learned a lesson..bring a scout and pilot skill will always matter more than sp.
A good way to learn this get in a group of 20-30 or so t1 frigates, and go for a lo sec run. Great times...I love watching ratting battleships fall to 25 frigates....nobody can stand up to numbers. Slight edges only matter when you are engaged in 1 vs 1...which is so rare it isn't even worth mentioning.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die Hiatus: EvE Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh) Interested in: better games in general
Comments
They have not reset to 0 (that I am aware of), but have made attempts to expedite new player skill gain. For a while they had the double skill points while under 1.6 mil (or about there). Next they removed the training skills which, at least for me, reduced my peak SP/hour, but for a newer account, likely increased their SP per hour. Additionally, and someone can correct me if this has changed, but new accounts also get an extra neural remap which furhter ensures they can maintain peak SP/hour even if they change their focus of training (i.e. going from tank skills: int/mem, to weapon skills perc/will).
So, not a complete reset, but they have put some effort into trying to get new players more SP in less time without further buffing the vet players' skill gain. That said, the current system does not make it so a new player can 'catch up' in raw SP, so if that is a persons main concern they will likely be disappointed and I would argue, as many already have, that they are approaching the game with the wrong mindset. But that debate has been had plenty of times already.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I second that. I wish I had taken advantage of the offers made on this forum with regards to new players but I signed up after the 2 weeks.
The going rate right now is 10m just for registering (which lets you start off comfortably), and you get 300m if you activate the account within 2 weeks. That will hold you over for a good bit so you don't have to struggle to get decent modules.
Ever since the speed nerf, CCP has made it very clear they are more interested in attracting new players than keeping old.
Speed nerf, new scanning system, new skill advancement all nerfed older players and helped new players.
This doesn't count the half dozen new game play features, none of which older/veteran players really care about.
The head of CCP even went as far as to say publicly that he wasn't going to address null sec lag until after WIS.
Sorry M8, anyone with any real knowledge of the game knows how CCP feels about attracting new players, and knows about the thousands upon thousands of veteran rage post on the forum.
The Truth is, older players have been back peddling in this game for a very long time, and anyone that doesn't understand this hasn't been keeping up with EVE.
You can disagree with me of course, but I actually am an ex-veteran myself and know a lot about the game. Many EVE vets not only plex their accounts these days but they plex their 1 or 2 alt accounts as well. I wouldn't use that as an argument that this game is not veteran-centric though. LOL. Quite the contrary.
If you are a noob not only do the vets have a 100 million+ skill point advantage on you with their main, they probably have 1 or 2 alt accounts that they use to further increase their advantage.
But I am glad you are enjoying it: I had a lot of fun a few years ago in the game, as I've said before. And to all those who haven't tried it please do the free trial and don't trust what anybody tells you including myself. That is a good pre-EVE lesson right there. And don't open any cans even if they say there is free candy inside. LOL...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I tired EvE, I dint get into it simply because of the time investment it requires. Since I spend very little time on MMOs before getting burned out on it and moving onto the next one. But what is said about EvE Vets having an advantage is absolutely true and only a blind idiot would say otherwise.
Sure you can have fun, do your thing and go fanboi gaga over EvE even if you start out right now, but the truth always remains that Vets are better than you in EvE. You can run from them when you dont have the advantage, you can group up with them to feel safer or you can just run away from them like a headless chicken but its a FACT that someone who just starts now (or started from scratch earlier this year) would have his ship popped if its was a 1v1(you VS vet), a 3v3(you 3 noobs VS 3 vets) or a 100v100(you 100 noobs....against a hundered vets, go figure) scenario. But hey now, you can always group up WITH a vet corp. and run around with the big guys, but what the blind idiots fail to see is that even to play safe and have fun you WILL need a vet to hold your hand or have a clear advantage of numbers on your side.
Try the free trial, get a feel for the game, but take the 'advice' from all these "WoWTrolls" who resort to making silly statements like "LOL DUEL PAWNS" with a grain of salt
This about sums the learning curve of eve up... Lol joking aside... Its a very fun game, can become very tedius... thats why i play in small doses ( 1-3 month eve stints then take an equal time break ) helps keep it fresh and diludes the tedium
Really, what else matters?
You speak as though having fun was a dangerous distraction from the Serious Business Of ~Winning At MMOs~
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Well without wading waist deep into the arguments here, I can tell you that I recently tried the trial on EVE Online and ended up buying the game. But I have tried EVE many times before and I never got into it. Really you need the right mindset BEFORE you start playing. This game is insanely complicated, and if you go in expecting a bread crumb trail of quests showing you the way to glory (similar to all those games the OP mentioned) then you will be very disappointed and end up quitting in a few weeks. I still recommend EVE, but only if you know what you are getting into.
There will be lots of reading, just hitting "Accept" for a mission without reading like in WoW will surely get you killed.
You will be told a million different ways on how you "should" play the game.
There is a lot of patience required, you cannot advance faster by playing more.
I would not consider corporations (guilds) to be optional. If you do not join one, you will quit. You need them and they need you.
If you like being a jack of all trades EVE might not be right for you, specialization is of the utmost importance.
Oh... and if you do decide to get the game I recommend buying the Commissioned Officer Edition as soon as you decide to pay to play. You get a +3 to all stats booster (works for the first 35 days of your character's life) and equates to approximately 15% faster skill gain for your first month of play.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
OK, you're an EVE vet, so I'm going to ask some questions.
I have a charcter thats roughly 3 yrs, 9 months old, but I took 6 months off (unsubbed)
He has roughly 65M SPs. Of course there are veterans out there probably with 120M SPs, so according to your theory they must be able to totally own me. I'm just having a hard time understanding how they'll be able to do that.
My Gunnery Skills are at 17M SP's. I have no Captial ship skills. (don't want to fly them).
Outside of Spec skills which are at 4 I have all available gunnery skills at level 5 for every type of gun in EVE. I give up 2% if anyone decided to train to 5 on the spec skills. 2% will not win the day, esp if I get the first volley in with the right fit.
Wait, you need fit ships right? I have 17M in spaceship command. That translates to level 5 skills in every standard hull for every race in the game. There really isn't a small hull in the game I can't fly to at least level 4, and I'm training hard right now for Command Ships 5. I can fly a Damnation at full 5's once that's done, something few in game can say no matter how many SP's they have.
I could go on, but in every combat area that's important I have my skills at level 5, there' s no way for anyone to be any better than I am from a strictly skill point position.
Yet, I'll can be (and am) routinely beaten by pilots that really know how to fly their ships well. Don't know how they do it (mostly practice I suspect) but they get into the proper gun range every time, don't forget some minor detail like turning on their hardners or whatever, (LOL) and I can be easily smoked by someone with 5M SP's, especially if I showed up for a long range battle and he shows up at close range ready for knife fight.
So I solve that problem pretty easily, I try to bring friends where ever I go, because as they say, if you ever find yourself in a fair fight in EVE, you're doing it wrong.
Win and win big is the only motto I worry about.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well, to be honest, the vets are just as adamant about not giving back any of their skill points. Why is that do you think? Perhaps because one's fun in an MMO does have a lot to do with how good you are at it. And veterans massive and perpetual skill point advanatage ensure they will always be better than the newer players. FOREVER.
I say make the game have real risk not just easily replaced ISK risk like it exists today. I say have clones only reserve up to 40 million skill points total, with a total loss of skill upon death back to 40 million skill points.
What say you veterans? After all, skill points are pretty meaningless anyway right?
<sound of crickets chirping>
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Having fun was exactly what I was trying to say!
Nothing stops a newbie from having a blast in EvE, but its just a fact that Vets are better off than you in this game.
All that red font and the works was to counter that angry gamer who kept calling BS on the other poster
You've seen this question answered many times, so you're just trolling. If I answer, you'll just handwave it or ignore it.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Like the OP, I'm also Looking to get into EvE.
Anyone have any advice or tips as to where of how I can get started and situated?
I tried to play at one point but lacked a proper corporation and spent most of my time flying around trying to assemble a proper noob ship, and it ended up being really boring.
I hate to sound like a beggar, but I would really appreciate it if someone could be a bro and send me a 21 day free trial. The extra week really helps, and I want to make sure I'm into it before I sub.
Additionally, can anyone recommend a good starting corp that would be willing to help new players?
Looking to eventually get into 0 sec for some PvP when I'm ready.
Waiting for: Archeage, Darkfall 2.0, and Planetside 2.
R.I.P Shadowbane; The best MMORPG I've ever played...
Check out my amateur gaming blog at: Thegamingbible.com
No I am not trolling I am involved in a discussion about what new players should expect when they play EVE, and it evolved into what it often does is a discussion about skill points. I don't say those that call me "ignorant" or a "troll" are trolling just because they are mean spirited and disagree with me and call me names.
So why call me a troll just because you disagree with me. I am not being mean spirited nor calling anybody names, despite the fact others are doing that to me.
I just take serious issue with those that say skill points are meaningless, which many veterans often do. But these same veterans would scream bloody murder if you took their skill points away, which I feel proves my point. But that is my opinion, true.
And again, to those who are curious about EVE, do the free trial and have some fun. Why not?
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Try the trial. That's what its there for. I loved EVE and it has a great tutorial that shows you the game and does an amazing job at helping you understand it well.
ER, you do understand that the primary goal behind EVE is to minimize your risk in every thing you do right? So why does your suggestion make any sense?
This is like arguing for permadeath in a fantasy MMORPG, no one would play.
Why would we give back anything? We played and paid for the game for years, yet still CCP leaves in mechanics that lets some snot noze 6 month old charcter kill us. WTF is up with that? If anything I'm the victim here!!!!!
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
LOL, Rule one, never drop a message like this into the middle of a flamewar, a huge risk of being ignored.
But here, start off by reading through this guide, great start, but know that the Internet is full of dozens of specialize ones you'll eventually end up reading one day.
http://www.isktheguide.com/
Good starter corp, look for EVE University, always a great place for new players to find their way.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
this comes up every week. If a new player comes to the boards and asks if he can ever catch up to vets in sp, it is obvious that he can't due to the time based skill gains. Telling a new player that he CAN'T ever be viable in pvp, trade, or industry b/c he's so far behind vets, is false. As it's has been over and overly discussed sp are tools by which players engage in different activities.
Telling a new player that he should purchase a new character off the bazaar so he can have access to more sp is a guaranteed receipe for failure. If any of you that claim that, did you do that? Did you start the game with no idea how to fly even a T1 frigate and buy a high sp toon, fit a battleship/HAC/Recon with t2 mods, rigs, undock and become L33T at PvP? I won't believe that unless I see a KM. That is the worst possible advice anyone could give a new player.
Common sense would dictate you learn how to fly small, cheap ships fitted with cheap gear to learn the game mechanics. If I gave you a highly trained toon in DF with all the shinies..would you own veterans that have been playing for 22 months? I don't think so. EvE isn't a twitch based game, so it is even less intutive.
Buying toons is for veteran players that want to add another toon to assist them do other activities such as building, mining, invention or more nefarious activities like spying. A new player buying a high sp toon is a ridiculous suggestion and a guaranteed path to becoming a crybaby.
Again, I want to see an EvEMON skillplan that requires 2 years or some arbitary number that makes someone "viable" in PvP. Until someone produces a link to this information, this type of posts are only trollbait. Produce or you are lying.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
Ok, here is one other idea for allowing accelerated skill point increase to give new players a chance to catch the veterans: the ability to buy skill points with ISK.
The price per skill point could be based off of a formula that makes it increasingly expensive the higher your skill point total is, and be capped at a point where nobody can pass the highest skill point player in EVE.
Formula something like:
(ISK cost) / (skill point) = (some constant) * (player skill) / [(highest player skill) - (player skill)]
This way it still gives veterans an advantage, but allows newer players to accelerate thier skill point gains based on grinding ISK.
Sounds like a good idea to me what about it veterans? Or are you unwilling to give up your skill point advantage under any circumstance?
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I would be more than happy to let people buy skill points. The toon you see in this picture is not a reflection of his sp, but MY PLAYER SKILL. He is trained to fly caps. He can build outposts. He can refine anything at a perfect rate. He can do alot of stuff...but he can't do any of those things w/o ME pushing the buttons. He can only do what I tell him to do. Because I trained Anchoring to V, he can deploy a T2 Large Bubble. Placing that bubble however is entirely up to me. I could put it where ever I want, but that is entirely up to me.
Placement of that bubble MEANS something. It means whether you get away in your ship with 10 t2 blueprints or not. My toons ability to USE T2 bubbles only goes so far..b/c I, THE PLAYER, have to anchor it.
If someone wanted to buy sp, that's fine with me. I could care less. I trained the first 70 million sp or so w/o a skillqueue, so I missed alot of time. I had to set an alarm in the middle of the night, to switch a skill. However, I was in favor of a skillqueue b/c it is a game after all.
You want to buy sp, be my guest. I only enjoy an advantage over new players b/c of my EXPERIENCE, not my sp. I have killed many, many higher sp toons than mine, and it didn't have anything to do with whether I could use t2 guns or not.
Edit:spelling
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general
What skill point Advantage?
I wish all current veterans were as open minded as you. I don't think the idea of buying skill points with ISK would go over well with most of the current veterans I have dialogued with. Many would I believe threaten to quit or demand refunds. I was a veteran once, and I admit I enjoyed having skill point advantage over others at the time.
But I will also agree to disagree on the nature of skill point advantage. Veterans are quick to point out the importance of actual personal skill versus skill points, and I don't dispute that. But to say having multiple 5% advantages in support skills, or that having better ships with more firepower, larger capacitors, better armor, etc are not advantages I think is being disingenuous...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I'm for buying SPs as well (75msp Character here).
I can understand however if CCP wanted to put some caps on it however.
Perhaps you can only buy SP if you are below 50 million SP, 25, 75... whatever. Perhaps you can only buy upto 10% of your Total SP?
I also really like the idea of extending the idea behind implants that double your SP rate. I definitely would like to see these put so that lower levels can feel like they are "catching up"
I dont know about other players, but it was around 15 million SP that I started to feel PvP viable. I am all for helping new players reach that goal quicker.
New players could double their XP for the first 6 or 12 months and it would all be good in my book.
In my formula the cap is the highest skilled player, and even that would be very difficult to achieve as the formula has price per skill point rising quickly as you approach this cap. At some point it just wouldn't be worth it to spend the ISK on skill points, but the option would still be there if you are really that determined to get there.
I think psychologically this would improve the prospects for the noobs, knowing that through hard work and skill they will eventually reach an absolute even playing field with even the oldest of the vets...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
multiple 5% increases in various skills are an advantage...which is equalized by having friends. You want an extra 5% to your 1400mm T2 arty? Bring a friend in a tempest or a typhoon. You want 5% more armor repping, bring a friend with a remote repper or armor repping drones. No one ship or pilot is bigger than the math in EvE. No one. I don't care how many sp you got..put Dr. Caymus in a titan or any ship with max skills, faction gear, maxed everything. Give me two or three knowledgable pilots with a few ships, and we will bring him down. It's that simple.
When I first started, I sorta looked at like many new peeps do...'wow, i'm never gonna get that many", but fortunately I got with vets that made me understand that with alot of sp comes more expensive clones. People that never leave hisec and rarely lose ships or only ever engage their guns on a NPC target, don't get that. No ship is invulnerable, nor is any pilot so great that it takes tons of others to bring him down.
You know how I learned that? One of my first times I got caught in a bubble..i was in a vexor, heavily plated with good drone skills. Three dipshit pilots could barely kill me, but i got one of them before I went down. I learned a lesson..bring a scout and pilot skill will always matter more than sp.
A good way to learn this get in a group of 20-30 or so t1 frigates, and go for a lo sec run. Great times...I love watching ratting battleships fall to 25 frigates....nobody can stand up to numbers. Slight edges only matter when you are engaged in 1 vs 1...which is so rare it isn't even worth mentioning.
Playing: BF4/BF:Hardline, Subnautica 7 days to die
Hiatus: EvE
Waiting on: World of Darkness(sigh)
Interested in: better games in general