I would have to disagree with the OP. As a casual player nearing lv 50, I don't intend to slow down any at all. No, I won't grind out end game gear. I will start a new toon and try the game from a different perspective. I will level that toon to max level in adventure and craft and then start yet another alt. I plan on playing all for classes to max level as well as max level in crafts and THEN...I'll look at the end game content.
So...that being said, I should be ready to experience end game content in about 2 years. As a casual player....I have tons and tons to do.
Folks need to get out of this " end game " mentality. It stems from a generation of players raised on consol games. The believe the goal is to get to the end of every game they play. True mmo mentality enjoy's the journey, skrew the end. I never want to get to the end game. You aren't suppose to ever 'beat" these games, they are a lifestyle, a little world we get to pretend we live in for a few hours a day/week..whatever.
I hate this " end game " nonsense. Who cares! Go play your xbox and stop messing up my mmo's with all this emphasis on end game content!!
This is the inevitable result with your typical themepark gear-grind MMOs. I, for one, am tired of them. I think a lot of other people are as well. This genre needs a shot of something new.
If you're done with the game - any game - great ... move on and start playing another. The point is fun, right? So, if it's no longer fun ... stop playing. There are all sorts of great games out there to play ... and so far 2011 looks to be shaping up to be a good year for releases. I have been pleasantly surprised by RIFT and we've got TOR and GW2 and BF3 on the horizon. Good times.
If you're done with the game - any game - great ... move on and start playing another. The point is fun, right? So, if it's no longer fun ... stop playing. There are all sorts of great games out there to play ... and so far 2011 looks to be shaping up to be a good year for releases. I have been pleasantly surprised by RIFT and we've got TOR and GW2 and BF3 on the horizon. Good times.
This guy has it right...if you play a month and max level then get bored quit. You don't pay the first month anyway so your not really losing anything. The thing that should keep you in the MMO should be the people....once games started making MMOs soloable...the should have taken MMO out.
once games started making MMOs soloable...the should have taken MMO out.
If they made MMORPGs like it required making an application to a guild on their outofgame website just to play, then MMOs would have 90% less players. Maybe not even any players, because all the "people" would see how empty the game is and quit. MMOs like this would never get off the ground.
once games started making MMOs soloable...the should have taken MMO out.
If they made MMORPGs like a raid right from level 1, and it required making an application to a guild just to play, then MMOs would have 90% less players. Maybe not even any players, because all the "people" would see how empty the game is and quit. MMOs like this would never get off the ground.
I don't know man FF11 did pretty well and still is and you need to group for pretty much EVERYTHING not to mention you need a specific group make up to to succeed. No solo and random classes thrown together in that game and it was pretty lively.
once games started making MMOs soloable...the should have taken MMO out.
If they made MMORPGs like a raid right from level 1, and it required making an application to a guild just to play, then MMOs would have 90% less players. Maybe not even any players, because all the "people" would see how empty the game is and quit. MMOs like this would never get off the ground.
I don't know man FF11 did pretty well and still is and you need to group for pretty much EVERYTHING not to mention you need a specific group make up to to succeed. No solo and random classes thrown together in that game and it was pretty lively.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but once you hit lvl 50, if you are a casual gamer you are likely to quit. There are no new maps to explore most of what you do will almost always requre a group, but will also be fairly repetitious. Expert dungeons take a lot of time not only to complete (1.5 hrs to 3 hrs depending on how good your group is) but also to assemble a group of people to do it with you. Having a good guild is a necessity if you want to be able to do raids and you will need to sacrifice at least 2 nights of your week to raid with them if you want a shot at any loot, esp if they are using DKP system (attendance based). As for pvp, there really is nothing except grinding the same warfronts you have been doing since you started playing to get slightly better gear so you can grind some more.
I for one, am not too much of a casual player so it doesnt bother me, but i just thought i would let others know what is in store for them.
Since when is playing 2-3 nights a week for 2-3 hours considered "hardcore"? It's pretty casual.
Groups and raids come in all kinds, not all require DKP and the best ones tend not to.
Having time management and scheduling skills does not make one a hardcore gamer.
I'm a casual gamer and have been raiding with my EQ2 guild for 5 years now and clearing the majority of content. 90% of the players in my guild are casual. It's just that we're all adults and are able to show up on time and have the gameplay skills to accomplish a lot in that time.
Rift is no different. If you can't coordinate showing up for 2 hours at a certain time to accomplish something, it's not because you're casual, it's because you lack communication and/or gameplay skills.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Since when is playing 2-3 nights a week for 2-3 hours considered "hardcore"? It's pretty casual.
Groups and raids come in all kinds, not all require DKP and the best ones tend not to.
Having time management and scheduling skills does not make one a hardcore gamer.
I'm a casual gamer and have been raiding with my EQ2 guild for 5 years now and clearing the majority of content. 90% of the players in my guild are casual. It's just that we're all adults and are able to show up on time and have the gameplay skills to accomplish a lot in that time.
A lot of people in the real world have very dynamic schedules that vary from week to week. Being tied down to this kind of scheduling and being penalized by your guild because you cannot put raid attendance on your weekly main priority list, is what differentiates casuals from hardcores, not the total amount of hours put in the game per week. Its easy for a lot of people to play for 45 min to 1 hr here and there several times of the day, every day of the week (to get a couple of bars of experience, to complete a few quests, play a warfront or 2), than it is to set aside a 4 hour block of time during the middle of a work week where your attention is completely focused on playing a video game. I don't know about you, but i like prefer being able to schedule my gaming time around my social life, not the other way around.
Rift is no different. If you can't coordinate showing up for 2 hours at a certain time to accomplish something, it's not because you're casual, it's because you lack communication and/or gameplay skills.
LOL, since when did attendance = gameplay skills? this is what I hate about mmorpg elitists, they mistake things like attendance, copying cookiecutter builds, and mashing 112112112 on their hotbar for actual skill.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
I have personally been playing since headstart and have not hit 50 yet, I've been taking my time, trying alts, etc. However, there are things to do at 50, aside from the Warfront/Dungeon Grind.
1) Puzzles
2) Finding Cairns
3) Artifact Collection
4) Achievement Hunting
5) Title Collecting (goes in hand with achievements)
After that? Yeah Im probbably done with Rift after that. I played WoW and have no desire to repeat the expert dungeon (heroics) grind.
If they made MMORPGs like it required making an application to a guild on their outofgame website just to play, then MMOs would have 90% less players. Maybe not even any players, because all the "people" would see how empty the game is and quit. MMOs like this would never get off the ground.
You do realize that every single MMO out there requires you to fill something out on the game's website before you can even play, right?
Kk, that's not the same thing.
To be honest though, I dream of the day when an MMO has a server that requires an in-depth, in-character application that gets scrutinized in order to even let you play on that server. This would make for such an amazing community. Having 1 server with a thousand like-minded and intelligent players would be so much better than having 10 million players of whom 95% are morons and the rest are spread thing across a hundred servers.
Anyhow.. this is kinda off topic, i just saw the comment and found it interesting.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Expert dungeons take a lot of time not only to complete (1.5 hrs to 3 hrs depending on how good your group is) but also to assemble a group of people to do it with you...
Oh this is where I show my age, a part of me snickered reading this part as I remembered when "a lot of time" was more than a day. Ah the good old days when casual meant you at least dual boxed running multiple clients on each just to "solo".
It sounds just like every other MMO to me when it comes to causal end game, are you sure your just not getting burned out (I'm there right now myself)? I don't see that trend ending any time soon, end game is a myth and should just be called what it is "the repetitive stage".
Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.
^ I imagine it would be an awful elitest community. Variety is the spice of life.
I doubt. In my experience the smaller communities of more demanding games tend to be some of the most friendly and helpful.
Pandering to the lowest common denominator isn't the only (or the best) way to get variety. I'd argue that by putting 1000 people with intelligent opinions together, you'd get more variety than by putting together a million idiots with no opinion.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
What I dont understand is that 90% of the game is solo play from 1 to 50.
Then you hit 50 and all of a sudden all the solo quests dry up as does the solo content.
Now you are left stranded wondering wtf ? Especially if this was the first time you have played an MMO .
However after a few days wondering what to do you might discover that there is something to do but you will require friends and a guild something which you failed to aquire from lvl 1 to 50 .
Being a casual gamer this is even tougher. So what is left?
Re-roll another character and start over .. but the 2nd time you feel like you are watching a bad rerun.
Rift has the potential to be a really good game, in time when expansions come out and there is more to do.
With only 1 real leveling path for each side, its painful to make a new toon and do it all again.
having leveled toons on each side to 50 within the first month.. without hardcore play.. i think i understand that.
Now if there was multiple paths you could go to level, multiple zones of the level range, multiple starting areas depending on the race, ect.. that would be a totally different story.
I have shelved my multiple accounts for now, waiting for expansions to come out and fix that problem.
^ I imagine it would be an awful elitest community. Variety is the spice of life.
I doubt. In my experience the smaller communities of more demanding games tend to be some of the most friendly and helpful.
Pandering to the lowest common denominator isn't the only (or the best) way to get variety. I'd argue that by putting 1000 people with intelligent opinions together, you'd get more variety than by putting together a million idiots with no opinion.
I'd have to admit I'm a bit boggled as to where intellegent and/or opinion factors into MMO community. When I play a game I don't care if you are intellegent, think you are intellegent or what your opinions are. I care about how people "in game" act around me.
I am quite certain vast numbers of the people on my ignore and block lists are quite intellegent. So my personal experience would say intellegence has little to do with being a good community member. Why exactly does someone need an opinion to be a good community member? I get lost in your entire premise, but am glad to read it and if you can collect data to support it I'd look at it.
My personal view is that much of what destroys virtual communities.. also violates EULA and/or ToS. Thus if the game companies actually enforced their own rules that would be a major step (just my opinion of course). The problem with this is if they actually enforced the rules it would cost them money. Likely the same reason why an account reported hundreds of times for exploiting.. isn't banned...
Expert dungeons take a lot of time not only to complete (1.5 hrs to 3 hrs depending on how good your group is) but also to assemble a group of people to do it with you...
Oh this is where I show my age, a part of me snickered reading this part as I remembered when "a lot of time" was more than a day. Ah the good old days when casual meant you at least dual boxed running multiple clients on each just to "solo".
It sounds just like every other MMO to me when it comes to causal end game, are you sure your just not getting burned out (I'm there right now myself)? I don't see that trend ending any time soon, end game is a myth and should just be called what it is "the repetitive stage".
lol hey hey you shouldnt make assumptions that i'm that young. I am just using the term "casual" by today's standards. I've done my fair share of eat-sleep-drink-mmorpg back in the day. Also, i didnt say i'm unhappy with rift's endgame either. Honestly, this game should be able to sustain me for a while until guild wars 2 comes out. I just feel that people have a right to know what to expect from endgame, and whether or not they are happy with that is up to them.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
ONe word as an answer to 'lulz nub, evry mmo is liek taht at maxlvl' ---> EVE, no raidgrind, no geargrind, no pointless achievement collection. Just the constant struggle for fame, power and isk. If your corp says they need you tonight at 9 pm, they DO!
Arieste, I have to agree very strongly. Dam ppl on these forums chuck statements like 'Hitler' around, aparently without any true idea of what they mean. I think I was at primary school when my mother told me not to use words when I do not understand them.
ONe word as an answer to 'lulz nub, evry mmo is liek taht at maxlvl' ---> EVE, no raidgrind, no geargrind, no pointless achievement collection. Just the constant struggle for fame, power and isk. If your corp says they need you tonight at 9 pm, they DO!
Every major MMO since WOW is like that, would be more accurate. Before WoW, MMOs had all different sorts of endgames.
UO? AC? AO? DAOC? SWG? EVE? Not like that. Not like each other. Each had a unique take on progression and what that meant for endgame.
EQ, then WoW, then so many I can't even keep them straight, except that almost all the major ones have followed the EQ/WoW formula. Even some of the old ones attempted to convert to be more WoW like. I can't understand how it is that none of the people behind them haven't been able to see how unsuccessful that has been. Not only do they utterly fail to take subs from WoW, they just end up tanking the corner of the market they had.
They end up turning a healthy 250-500k sub base into a subsistance on 50-100k, which looks right about where Rift will be in a few months.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Agreed, once I hit 50 I am bored. I am not into warfronts/pqs and other type of capture the flags in MMOrpgs. Even though I am on a PVP server you rarely see any PVP happening. If you want to PVP then do not have warfronts. When I played the orginial DAOC it was great you had 3 sides and objectives, had to work together to take keeps. I have noticed when you add PQs, warfronts people afk waiting in que, which is very boring to me. The only thing Rift really has going for it is the Soul Tree and I think patch 1.2 they are going to add another Soul Tree slot. So, now I am back playing EVE.
The OP's post could be said about pretty much every MMO out there.
If you don't pvp then of course max level would be boring - more than half of most end game content involves pvp.
Even if you DO PVP it's still beyond boring. Grinding PVP points in instances is far from entertaining.
when I read what SuperDonk posted about PvP, my first thoughts were: "If the PvP is what is supposed to keep this game afloat, they're screwed."
Typically what most serious PvPers agree upon when it comes to Rift is that it's nowhere near the focus of Rift, and shouldn't be played as such. This is emphasized by the fact that world PvP has little to no purpose and that "endgame PvP" is a BG/WF/Scenario grind.
Where did I say PVP was going to keep RIFT a float????
I was commenting about games in general. Rift pvp is limited - I would agree. But it is the FOLM for me now and I'm still having fun. Will I be having fun with Rift in 6 months? No, because it doesnt have enough to keep me busy, and I'll have moved on.
Comments
I would have to disagree with the OP. As a casual player nearing lv 50, I don't intend to slow down any at all. No, I won't grind out end game gear. I will start a new toon and try the game from a different perspective. I will level that toon to max level in adventure and craft and then start yet another alt. I plan on playing all for classes to max level as well as max level in crafts and THEN...I'll look at the end game content.
So...that being said, I should be ready to experience end game content in about 2 years. As a casual player....I have tons and tons to do.
Folks need to get out of this " end game " mentality. It stems from a generation of players raised on consol games. The believe the goal is to get to the end of every game they play. True mmo mentality enjoy's the journey, skrew the end. I never want to get to the end game. You aren't suppose to ever 'beat" these games, they are a lifestyle, a little world we get to pretend we live in for a few hours a day/week..whatever.
I hate this " end game " nonsense. Who cares! Go play your xbox and stop messing up my mmo's with all this emphasis on end game content!!
This is the inevitable result with your typical themepark gear-grind MMOs. I, for one, am tired of them. I think a lot of other people are as well. This genre needs a shot of something new.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
If you're done with the game - any game - great ... move on and start playing another. The point is fun, right? So, if it's no longer fun ... stop playing. There are all sorts of great games out there to play ... and so far 2011 looks to be shaping up to be a good year for releases. I have been pleasantly surprised by RIFT and we've got TOR and GW2 and BF3 on the horizon. Good times.
This guy has it right...if you play a month and max level then get bored quit. You don't pay the first month anyway so your not really losing anything. The thing that should keep you in the MMO should be the people....once games started making MMOs soloable...the should have taken MMO out.
If they made MMORPGs like it required making an application to a guild on their outofgame website just to play, then MMOs would have 90% less players. Maybe not even any players, because all the "people" would see how empty the game is and quit. MMOs like this would never get off the ground.
I don't know man FF11 did pretty well and still is and you need to group for pretty much EVERYTHING not to mention you need a specific group make up to to succeed. No solo and random classes thrown together in that game and it was pretty lively.
Edited to be more specific.
Since when is playing 2-3 nights a week for 2-3 hours considered "hardcore"? It's pretty casual.
Groups and raids come in all kinds, not all require DKP and the best ones tend not to.
Having time management and scheduling skills does not make one a hardcore gamer.
I'm a casual gamer and have been raiding with my EQ2 guild for 5 years now and clearing the majority of content. 90% of the players in my guild are casual. It's just that we're all adults and are able to show up on time and have the gameplay skills to accomplish a lot in that time.
Rift is no different. If you can't coordinate showing up for 2 hours at a certain time to accomplish something, it's not because you're casual, it's because you lack communication and/or gameplay skills.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
Buy Elder Scrolls: Skyrim when it comes out... If you don't like grouping to clear content MMOs are not for you.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
I have personally been playing since headstart and have not hit 50 yet, I've been taking my time, trying alts, etc. However, there are things to do at 50, aside from the Warfront/Dungeon Grind.
1) Puzzles
2) Finding Cairns
3) Artifact Collection
4) Achievement Hunting
5) Title Collecting (goes in hand with achievements)
After that? Yeah Im probbably done with Rift after that. I played WoW and have no desire to repeat the expert dungeon (heroics) grind.
You do realize that every single MMO out there requires you to fill something out on the game's website before you can even play, right?
Kk, that's not the same thing.
To be honest though, I dream of the day when an MMO has a server that requires an in-depth, in-character application that gets scrutinized in order to even let you play on that server. This would make for such an amazing community. Having 1 server with a thousand like-minded and intelligent players would be so much better than having 10 million players of whom 95% are morons and the rest are spread thing across a hundred servers.
Anyhow.. this is kinda off topic, i just saw the comment and found it interesting.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
^ I imagine it would be an awful elitest community. Variety is the spice of life.
Chins
Oh this is where I show my age, a part of me snickered reading this part as I remembered when "a lot of time" was more than a day. Ah the good old days when casual meant you at least dual boxed running multiple clients on each just to "solo".
It sounds just like every other MMO to me when it comes to causal end game, are you sure your just not getting burned out (I'm there right now myself)? I don't see that trend ending any time soon, end game is a myth and should just be called what it is "the repetitive stage".
Because flying a Minmatar ship is like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an Uzi.
I doubt. In my experience the smaller communities of more demanding games tend to be some of the most friendly and helpful.
Pandering to the lowest common denominator isn't the only (or the best) way to get variety. I'd argue that by putting 1000 people with intelligent opinions together, you'd get more variety than by putting together a million idiots with no opinion.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO
But if you gave them type writers they might pull together the complete works of Shakespear
Chins
What I dont understand is that 90% of the game is solo play from 1 to 50.
Then you hit 50 and all of a sudden all the solo quests dry up as does the solo content.
Now you are left stranded wondering wtf ? Especially if this was the first time you have played an MMO .
However after a few days wondering what to do you might discover that there is something to do but you will require friends and a guild something which you failed to aquire from lvl 1 to 50 .
Being a casual gamer this is even tougher. So what is left?
Re-roll another character and start over .. but the 2nd time you feel like you are watching a bad rerun.
Such a shame too.
Rift has the potential to be a really good game, in time when expansions come out and there is more to do.
With only 1 real leveling path for each side, its painful to make a new toon and do it all again.
having leveled toons on each side to 50 within the first month.. without hardcore play.. i think i understand that.
Now if there was multiple paths you could go to level, multiple zones of the level range, multiple starting areas depending on the race, ect.. that would be a totally different story.
I have shelved my multiple accounts for now, waiting for expansions to come out and fix that problem.
I'd have to admit I'm a bit boggled as to where intellegent and/or opinion factors into MMO community. When I play a game I don't care if you are intellegent, think you are intellegent or what your opinions are. I care about how people "in game" act around me.
I am quite certain vast numbers of the people on my ignore and block lists are quite intellegent. So my personal experience would say intellegence has little to do with being a good community member. Why exactly does someone need an opinion to be a good community member? I get lost in your entire premise, but am glad to read it and if you can collect data to support it I'd look at it.
My personal view is that much of what destroys virtual communities.. also violates EULA and/or ToS. Thus if the game companies actually enforced their own rules that would be a major step (just my opinion of course). The problem with this is if they actually enforced the rules it would cost them money. Likely the same reason why an account reported hundreds of times for exploiting.. isn't banned...
lol hey hey you shouldnt make assumptions that i'm that young. I am just using the term "casual" by today's standards. I've done my fair share of eat-sleep-drink-mmorpg back in the day. Also, i didnt say i'm unhappy with rift's endgame either. Honestly, this game should be able to sustain me for a while until guild wars 2 comes out. I just feel that people have a right to know what to expect from endgame, and whether or not they are happy with that is up to them.
Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)
ONe word as an answer to 'lulz nub, evry mmo is liek taht at maxlvl' ---> EVE, no raidgrind, no geargrind, no pointless achievement collection. Just the constant struggle for fame, power and isk. If your corp says they need you tonight at 9 pm, they DO!
Arieste, I have to agree very strongly. Dam ppl on these forums chuck statements like 'Hitler' around, aparently without any true idea of what they mean. I think I was at primary school when my mother told me not to use words when I do not understand them.
Chins
Every major MMO since WOW is like that, would be more accurate. Before WoW, MMOs had all different sorts of endgames.
UO? AC? AO? DAOC? SWG? EVE? Not like that. Not like each other. Each had a unique take on progression and what that meant for endgame.
EQ, then WoW, then so many I can't even keep them straight, except that almost all the major ones have followed the EQ/WoW formula. Even some of the old ones attempted to convert to be more WoW like. I can't understand how it is that none of the people behind them haven't been able to see how unsuccessful that has been. Not only do they utterly fail to take subs from WoW, they just end up tanking the corner of the market they had.
They end up turning a healthy 250-500k sub base into a subsistance on 50-100k, which looks right about where Rift will be in a few months.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Agreed, once I hit 50 I am bored. I am not into warfronts/pqs and other type of capture the flags in MMOrpgs. Even though I am on a PVP server you rarely see any PVP happening. If you want to PVP then do not have warfronts. When I played the orginial DAOC it was great you had 3 sides and objectives, had to work together to take keeps. I have noticed when you add PQs, warfronts people afk waiting in que, which is very boring to me. The only thing Rift really has going for it is the Soul Tree and I think patch 1.2 they are going to add another Soul Tree slot. So, now I am back playing EVE.
Where did I say PVP was going to keep RIFT a float????
I was commenting about games in general. Rift pvp is limited - I would agree. But it is the FOLM for me now and I'm still having fun. Will I be having fun with Rift in 6 months? No, because it doesnt have enough to keep me busy, and I'll have moved on.