EVE Online is a pay to play, with a fully supported RMT system. You can buy anything for real money and they allow it just fine - characters, ships, modules, it's all perfectly fine.
Probably the decision CCP made that I hate the most.
Can you link me to that item shop? (A screenshot will do) All I can find is a place where I can buy game time from them.
Originally posted by Malcanis Originally posted by kadepsyson EVE Online is a pay to play, with a fully supported RMT system. You can buy anything for real money and they allow it just fine - characters, ships, modules, it's all perfectly fine. Probably the decision CCP made that I hate the most.
Can you link me to that item shop? (A screenshot will do) All I can find is a place where I can buy game time from them. An MMO publisher selling game time? THE HORROR!
You can buy a PLEX, which is game time, correct. But you can than turn that PLEX into an in-game item and sell that for in game ISK. Then you use that ISK to buy anything you want. RMT.
EVE Online is a pay to play, with a fully supported RMT system. You can buy anything for real money and they allow it just fine - characters, ships, modules, it's all perfectly fine.
Probably the decision CCP made that I hate the most.
Can you link me to that item shop? (A screenshot will do) All I can find is a place where I can buy game time from them.
An MMO publisher selling game time? THE HORROR!
You can buy a PLEX, which is game time, correct. But you can than turn that PLEX into an in-game item and sell that for in game ISK. Then you use that ISK to buy anything you want. RMT.
You do not even need to covert it into ingame item...just go on the eve bazaar forum and sell it right there and send them the code in a secure trade.
"I usually try to see all sides when it comes to MMO debates, but when I wrote “real money transactions” I was thinking “item stores”; I entirely forgot about the less savory roots of RMT, which is gold selling. Let’s be clearer this time: I don’t approve of gold selling at all. I understand where it comes from and I know why some people feel compelled to use the service, but I think it’s directly detrimental to the games in which it happens and more indirectly bad for the community and industry as a whole."
Problem I've always have with item malls is that if you investigate RMT (gold seller sites) You can get alot more off RMT then if you buy off a item mall. Example this EXP buff potion for a week period is 10$ on this item mall , which is worth let's say 300 million gold in game BUT if you go to a RMT site for 10$ you can get 1 billion gold which is 3 EXP buff potions. That is why I avoid F2P games and will always be in P2P , either give everything to the players on day 1 with a monthly fee or go back to the drawing board. That's my way on seeing things.
I agree. But that's the thing, our subscription money does go toward developing those things we do not care to purchase, just as your stadium ticket prices go up in order for them to buy jerseys to sell to people. The companies are making money on both ends, in my opinion.
Technically, your subscription money purchases access to the game as it exists for one month. The company offering the game makes profit by providing a subscription service. They can then invest that profit in the creation of fluff items, expansion content or whatever else they deem appropriate. Simpy because the money you spend with a company may, at some point, be used for something you don't think it should be doesn't mean you're right. The money you spent on that subscription stops being yours once the payment has been completed.
EVE Online is a pay to play, with a fully supported RMT system. You can buy anything for real money and they allow it just fine - characters, ships, modules, it's all perfectly fine.
Probably the decision CCP made that I hate the most.
Can you link me to that item shop? (A screenshot will do) All I can find is a place where I can buy game time from them.
An MMO publisher selling game time? THE HORROR!
You can buy a PLEX, which is game time, correct. But you can than turn that PLEX into an in-game item and sell that for in game ISK. Then you use that ISK to buy anything you want. RMT.
As much as I hate RMT, CCP isn't quite crossing the line because it's not quite RMT.
Yes, you buy PLEX with real money, and yes you can turn around and legitimately trade that PLEX for ingame currency. The main thing is, you're trading with another player. More specifically, you're trading potential gameplay time (PLEX) with another player in exchange for some of their time played (the time they spend acquiring ISK).
Pretty much every other instance of RMT involves the developer creating items and/or bonuses out of nothing in exchange for real cash. In Eve however, CCP preserves the integrity of the game by having items still require tangtible effort to acquire.
I agree. But that's the thing, our subscription money does go toward developing those things we do not care to purchase, just as your stadium ticket prices go up in order for them to buy jerseys to sell to people. The companies are making money on both ends, in my opinion.
Technically, your subscription money purchases access to the game as it exists for one month. The company offering the game makes profit by providing a subscription service. They can then invest that profit in the creation of fluff items, expansion content or whatever else they deem appropriate. Simpy because the money you spend with a company may, at some point, be used for something you don't think it should be doesn't mean you're right. The money you spent on that subscription stops being yours once the payment has been completed.
Well that certainly is one way to look at it. Not saying you are wrong, but I feel differently. If I don't like what the developers are doing with my money, I'm free to stop giving it to them.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I agree. But that's the thing, our subscription money does go toward developing those things we do not care to purchase, just as your stadium ticket prices go up in order for them to buy jerseys to sell to people. The companies are making money on both ends, in my opinion.
Technically, your subscription money purchases access to the game as it exists for one month. The company offering the game makes profit by providing a subscription service. They can then invest that profit in the creation of fluff items, expansion content or whatever else they deem appropriate. Simpy because the money you spend with a company may, at some point, be used for something you don't think it should be doesn't mean you're right. The money you spent on that subscription stops being yours once the payment has been completed.
Well that certainly is one way to look at it. Not saying you are wrong, but I feel differently. If I don't like what the developers are doing with my money, I'm free to stop giving it to them.
That's certainly true. You lose access to the game they created when you stop paying though, meaning that's what you're paying for in the first place. If you enjoy the game but disagree with a few things the devs do, it seems like a lose/lose if you cancel. No more game enjoyment for you and one less sub supporting the ongoing development and operation of the game.
Also, cash shops are simply a revenue generation avenue for the developer. If you really like a game, you should be happy the developers are able to continue to make money. Once they stop making money, the game goes away.
I agree. But that's the thing, our subscription money does go toward developing those things we do not care to purchase, just as your stadium ticket prices go up in order for them to buy jerseys to sell to people. The companies are making money on both ends, in my opinion.
Technically, your subscription money purchases access to the game as it exists for one month. The company offering the game makes profit by providing a subscription service. They can then invest that profit in the creation of fluff items, expansion content or whatever else they deem appropriate. Simpy because the money you spend with a company may, at some point, be used for something you don't think it should be doesn't mean you're right. The money you spent on that subscription stops being yours once the payment has been completed.
Well that certainly is one way to look at it. Not saying you are wrong, but I feel differently. If I don't like what the developers are doing with my money, I'm free to stop giving it to them.
That's certainly true. You lose access to the game they created when you stop paying though, meaning that's what you're paying for in the first place. If you enjoy the game but disagree with a few things the devs do, it seems like a lose/lose if you cancel. No more game enjoyment for you and one less sub supporting the ongoing development and operation of the game.
Also, cash shops are simply a revenue generation avenue for the developer. If you really like a game, you should be happy the developers are able to continue to make money. Once they stop making money, the game goes away.
I agree. Fortunately there are many other things I can spend my time doing. If the principle of thier pricing model is wrong to me, it doesn't matter how good the rest of the game is. I vote with my wallet. Yes, if it's a good game it deserves to flourish and do well. If they want to start gouging people because they know their game is great, they can go to hell. I realize its a matter of perspective. Everyone's terms of value differ.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Not all RMT is bad, but from my experience most RMT games spend more resources on the "store" than the game.
Also, when content is developed the content is balanced off store items - not game play items. Although, so far, this is only present in the more egregious circumstances(almost all asian f2p games).
I don't mind experience potions and skill potions in Cash Shops. What I do mind are the items to buff up armors and weapons which unbalance a game,
I find players can think of strategy of stacking EXP effects from in-game and developing their characters from leveling and using cash shop items. It adds focus since these items cost money. Combine this with an event where monster EXP and quest EXP is doubled and you really are golden.
It was Double for Monster and Quest EXP, along with an ITEM that tripled EXP for 2 hours along with an item that while in a party within a zone, EXP was doubled. This was all multiplicative. In other words, it was 2.0 x 3.0 x 2.0, I then had a piece of equipment which lowered my stats but increased my EXP by 25% more...I literally counted a full 15 times increase in EXP....and in that two hour period a LARGE focus existed on killing as quickly and efficiently as possible in an instanced zone. We had killed close to 400 monsters all higher level that gave around double the EXP itself than what one gets at killing monsters at the same character level....That alone would have been 400 x 30 = 12000 monsters killed without any bonuses or items and would have consumed around 30 - 50x more time too..
The entire argument players have of cash shops not working out....really is one where the majority who support the argument are kids and adults too lazy to go out and get a real job and realize that the world doesnt revolve around playing games for 12 hours a day and acting like such a feat makes for a life.
Love me or hate me, but you know its true when you wake up to the day you have to leave your favorite game after playing for many years and you ask "what was it all for" and over time it becomes a memory and you look back and say "wow, I had tons of fun but I really wasted a lot of time too."
Comments
Can you link me to that item shop? (A screenshot will do) All I can find is a place where I can buy game time from them.
An MMO publisher selling game time? THE HORROR!
Give me liberty or give me lasers
An MMO publisher selling game time? THE HORROR!
You can buy a PLEX, which is game time, correct. But you can than turn that PLEX into an in-game item and sell that for in game ISK. Then you use that ISK to buy anything you want. RMT.
You do not even need to covert it into ingame item...just go on the eve bazaar forum and sell it right there and send them the code in a secure trade.
"I usually try to see all sides when it comes to MMO debates, but when I wrote “real money transactions” I was thinking “item stores”; I entirely forgot about the less savory roots of RMT, which is gold selling. Let’s be clearer this time: I don’t approve of gold selling at all. I understand where it comes from and I know why some people feel compelled to use the service, but I think it’s directly detrimental to the games in which it happens and more indirectly bad for the community and industry as a whole."
Problem I've always have with item malls is that if you investigate RMT (gold seller sites) You can get alot more off RMT then if you buy off a item mall. Example this EXP buff potion for a week period is 10$ on this item mall , which is worth let's say 300 million gold in game BUT if you go to a RMT site for 10$ you can get 1 billion gold which is 3 EXP buff potions. That is why I avoid F2P games and will always be in P2P , either give everything to the players on day 1 with a monthly fee or go back to the drawing board. That's my way on seeing things.
Technically, your subscription money purchases access to the game as it exists for one month. The company offering the game makes profit by providing a subscription service. They can then invest that profit in the creation of fluff items, expansion content or whatever else they deem appropriate. Simpy because the money you spend with a company may, at some point, be used for something you don't think it should be doesn't mean you're right. The money you spent on that subscription stops being yours once the payment has been completed.
As much as I hate RMT, CCP isn't quite crossing the line because it's not quite RMT.
Yes, you buy PLEX with real money, and yes you can turn around and legitimately trade that PLEX for ingame currency. The main thing is, you're trading with another player. More specifically, you're trading potential gameplay time (PLEX) with another player in exchange for some of their time played (the time they spend acquiring ISK).
Pretty much every other instance of RMT involves the developer creating items and/or bonuses out of nothing in exchange for real cash. In Eve however, CCP preserves the integrity of the game by having items still require tangtible effort to acquire.
Well that certainly is one way to look at it. Not saying you are wrong, but I feel differently. If I don't like what the developers are doing with my money, I'm free to stop giving it to them.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
That's certainly true. You lose access to the game they created when you stop paying though, meaning that's what you're paying for in the first place. If you enjoy the game but disagree with a few things the devs do, it seems like a lose/lose if you cancel. No more game enjoyment for you and one less sub supporting the ongoing development and operation of the game.
Also, cash shops are simply a revenue generation avenue for the developer. If you really like a game, you should be happy the developers are able to continue to make money. Once they stop making money, the game goes away.
I agree. Fortunately there are many other things I can spend my time doing. If the principle of thier pricing model is wrong to me, it doesn't matter how good the rest of the game is. I vote with my wallet. Yes, if it's a good game it deserves to flourish and do well. If they want to start gouging people because they know their game is great, they can go to hell. I realize its a matter of perspective. Everyone's terms of value differ.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Not all RMT is bad, but from my experience most RMT games spend more resources on the "store" than the game.
Also, when content is developed the content is balanced off store items - not game play items. Although, so far, this is only present in the more egregious circumstances(almost all asian f2p games).
I don't mind experience potions and skill potions in Cash Shops. What I do mind are the items to buff up armors and weapons which unbalance a game,
I find players can think of strategy of stacking EXP effects from in-game and developing their characters from leveling and using cash shop items. It adds focus since these items cost money. Combine this with an event where monster EXP and quest EXP is doubled and you really are golden.
It was Double for Monster and Quest EXP, along with an ITEM that tripled EXP for 2 hours along with an item that while in a party within a zone, EXP was doubled. This was all multiplicative. In other words, it was 2.0 x 3.0 x 2.0, I then had a piece of equipment which lowered my stats but increased my EXP by 25% more...I literally counted a full 15 times increase in EXP....and in that two hour period a LARGE focus existed on killing as quickly and efficiently as possible in an instanced zone. We had killed close to 400 monsters all higher level that gave around double the EXP itself than what one gets at killing monsters at the same character level....That alone would have been 400 x 30 = 12000 monsters killed without any bonuses or items and would have consumed around 30 - 50x more time too..
The entire argument players have of cash shops not working out....really is one where the majority who support the argument are kids and adults too lazy to go out and get a real job and realize that the world doesnt revolve around playing games for 12 hours a day and acting like such a feat makes for a life.
Love me or hate me, but you know its true when you wake up to the day you have to leave your favorite game after playing for many years and you ask "what was it all for" and over time it becomes a memory and you look back and say "wow, I had tons of fun but I really wasted a lot of time too."