Honestly, I was there when the Star Wars phenomenon all started back in the 70's, thought it was a bit corny but loved the 2nd/3rd movies. I'll agree, by now the IP is sort of played out with me, SWTOR is just another space themed MMORPG in my books, and I would prefer a game on a more modern and unusual IP such as the Farscape Universe. (or maybe even LEX)
Heck, a DR Who MMORPG could be really cool, would love to battle some Darleks.
But back on topic, I'll play SWTOR, just to be like everyone else, and who knows, I'll probably have some fun doing it.
But it certainly isn't the fulfillment of my lifelong dream or anything.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I have to disagree that Star Wars is a pvp universe just because "wars" is in the IP name. It is not Star Wars...it is the Star Wars Universe. War is not just PvP but conflict of all kinds....eg. The Cold War....granted..many covert deaths probably occurred....or Storage Wars...never seen them fight physically over a locker...ok...that was dumb...but still. The Old Republic in the title reflects the time the game occurs...which...while full of conflict of all kinds..also has many types of sentient life going about their respective lives because the universe is the setting .A war just happens to be going on as well.
I have to disagree, the main attribute of Star Wars is two factions that are constantly at battle with each other. Making the franchise into a non PVP mmorpg makes no sense. You have to agree that there was no cold war in Star Wars, sides did not play bully and puss out when conflict occurred. Star Wars was always a conflict and war between factions, even George has said multiple times about this. If he says then the game is about PVP then it should be all PVP because of how the title is. I never once seen the movies and thought, wow they are not at war but in a confrontational cold war. They had the same war and faction problems on planets far away so how could the whole universe been at the same war and not be at war? Doesn't make sense for the Star Wars theme.
But back on topic, I'll play SWTOR, just to be like everyone else, and who knows, I'll probably have some fun doing it.
But it certainly isn't the fulfillment of my lifelong dream or anything.
Speaking of other franchises, a Dune MMORPG would be great, or a Blade Runner MMORPG or even a smart and unforgiving Aliens MMOFPS, or one that plays in Ian M Banks Culture universe or Greg Bear's The Way universe from his Eon and Eternity books.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I have to disagree that Star Wars is a pvp universe just because "wars" is in the IP name. It is not Star Wars...it is the Star Wars Universe. War is not just PvP but conflict of all kinds....eg. The Cold War....granted..many covert deaths probably occurred....or Storage Wars...never seen them fight physically over a locker...ok...that was dumb...but still. The Old Republic in the title reflects the time the game occurs...which...while full of conflict of all kinds..also has many types of sentient life going about their respective lives because the universe is the setting .A war just happens to be going on as well.
I have to disagree, the main attribute of Star Wars is two factions that are constantly at battle with each other. Making the franchise into a non PVP mmorpg makes no sense. You have to agree that there was no cold war in Star Wars, sides did not play bully and puss out when conflict occurred. Star Wars was always a conflict and war between factions, even George has said multiple times about this. If he says then the game is about PVP then it should be all PVP because of how the title is. I never once seen the movies and thought, wow they are not at war but in a confrontational cold war. They had the same war and faction problems on planets far away so how could the whole universe been at the same war and not be at war? Doesn't make sense for the Star Wars theme.
I see your points. My point is it is a universe where other beings..though affected by the war around them..also have other responsibilities. America is in a few conflicts...and though there are people fighting them (hopefully to come back in one piece ..bless em)....fighting so the many more at home can attempt to keep the country going as usual .
As for no cold war in Star Wars..well...that's pretty much exactly what most of the first episode was with all the manipulation and political intrigue...then it runs parallel with the actual clone war through episode 2 and 3 and the clone wars animated series. Palpatine was conducting a physical war on both sides as well as a clandestine "cold" war on a political level.
As to what George Lucas said about his original intent on the films...I guess he can change his mind whenever he wants...he's the creator. I just know that ..at one point he states his films were always aimed at kids..and that's his justification of cutesy stylized Clone Wars animated series (now granted..some of those episodes are very decent). Anyway ...we all know severed limbs , telekinetic choking , torture, burning corpses and screaming as they are vaporized fighter pilots are all on a parents "must watch" list for their children. This is the guy that took a decent anti-hero and made him less complicated by re-tooling his original vision so it seemed that Greedo shot first. ....and don't get me started on 3D re-release plans...the man will do absolutely anything to his films to keep the money stream flowing. One of the reasons I don't blame SOE entirely on what happened with SWG is because I imagined Lucas looking at SWG and smiling at the numbers..then looks over at WOW and his pupils mutate into dollar signs....grabbing Smedley in one hand ... drooling and shaking a copy of Vanilla WOW in his other hand...all the while repeating "Cha-Ching" over and over to the sound of the Star Wars theme.
Sorry for the rant. Any way it's made...I'm still going to play SW:TOR and will likely enjoy my arse off.
Not to mention that in the lore itself , there is only ever 2 sith : a master and apprentice . No more, no less. So the idea that you could have loads of sith with light sabers running around , while obviously a wet dream to some , is a non starter.
I laughed, that's pretty funny.
The fact that there are only 2 Sith is not part of the "lore." The Sith were an actual civilization. The statement that you are referring to was an acknowledgement of cause and effect. The identification that if there is one Sith there must be other Sith to teach him.
The idiology behind my interpretation is that the Sith only deal in the absolute , and are self serving , the opposite pole as to the Jedi . Being only 2 makes sense since you , as a Sith ,have limited your competition to just 1.
Maybe from my perspective , as I look at Star Wars from the view of the George Lucas films , the Sith there have reached the pinnacle of Sith evolution . In that all other 'sith' have been eliminated over time via whatever means to arrive at being only 2.
But, since this is the old republic , I stand corrected if there were loads of 'sith' .
Howether , by the same logic I assume, does this make every Sith in the game as likely to turn round and kill other sith to further their goal? Sort of the Jedi is like your average 'faction' and works alongside each other , whereas the Sith is like a free-for-all pvp and watch your back at all times.
Or, was there a point in history of the old republic where suddenly the sith adopted the dark side and everything changed just prior to the Star Wars films?
I have to disagree that Star Wars is a pvp universe just because "wars" is in the IP name. It is not Star Wars...it is the Star Wars Universe. War is not just PvP but conflict of all kinds....eg. The Cold War....granted..many covert deaths probably occurred....or Storage Wars...never seen them fight physically over a locker...ok...that was dumb...but still. The Old Republic in the title reflects the time the game occurs...which...while full of conflict of all kinds..also has many types of sentient life going about their respective lives because the universe is the setting .A war just happens to be going on as well.
I have to disagree, the main attribute of Star Wars is two factions that are constantly at battle with each other. Making the franchise into a non PVP mmorpg makes no sense. You have to agree that there was no cold war in Star Wars, sides did not play bully and puss out when conflict occurred. Star Wars was always a conflict and war between factions, even George has said multiple times about this. If he says then the game is about PVP then it should be all PVP because of how the title is. I never once seen the movies and thought, wow they are not at war but in a confrontational cold war. They had the same war and faction problems on planets far away so how could the whole universe been at the same war and not be at war? Doesn't make sense for the Star Wars theme.
Even with two factions fighting each other a game doesn't have to be pvp.It can be a player faction fighting an npc faction.Early in the development of swg that's what the war was going to be, player rebels fighting npc imperials.
Not to mention that in the lore itself , there is only ever 2 sith : a master and apprentice . No more, no less. So the idea that you could have loads of sith with light sabers running around , while obviously a wet dream to some , is a non starter.
I laughed, that's pretty funny.
The fact that there are only 2 Sith is not part of the "lore." The Sith were an actual civilization. The statement that you are referring to was an acknowledgement of cause and effect. The identification that if there is one Sith there must be other Sith to teach him.
The idiology behind my interpretation is that the Sith only deal in the absolute , and are self serving , the opposite pole as to the Jedi . Being only 2 makes sense since you , as a Sith ,have limited your competition to just 1.
Maybe from my perspective , as I look at Star Wars from the view of the George Lucas films , the Sith there have reached the pinnacle of Sith evolution . In that all other 'sith' have been eliminated over time via whatever means to arrive at being only 2.
But, since this is the old republic , I stand corrected if there were loads of 'sith' .
Howether , by the same logic I assume, does this make every Sith in the game as likely to turn round and kill other sith to further their goal? Sort of the Jedi is like your average 'faction' and works alongside each other , whereas the Sith is like a free-for-all pvp and watch your back at all times.
Or, was there a point in history of the old republic where suddenly the sith adopted the dark side and everything changed just prior to the Star Wars films?
You guys and Barcrow make some good points. All of this can be boiled down to Mr Lucas's story telling skills. Or the lack there of if you are feeling snarky. He started the SW universe with some very basic character ideas and then left it up to we fans to fill in the blanks with our own imaginations. Which actually worked quite well.
However then outside writers started to tinker with things during the time between the film series and prequels, which meant new lore had to be fleshed out. And then Lucas and pals wrote the prequels and tried like hell to expand the history and our knowledge of the SW universe. In my opinion this was a drastic mistake. Explaining the earlier unknow mystical things about the SW universe stole much of its charm. Epecially when the explinations were made in the most ass way possible. Midichlorians anyone?
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
For those who are not a mmorpg <INSERT IP HERE>, do you guys get sick of the fans overly excited expectations for the theme?
I am a fan of <INSERT IP HERE> but never was for the online game, and now the new one coming out. I seen them growing up the movies, then in my teens and the last ones, kinda over the whole star wars thing. I just don't see the exciting factor there like you guys with light sabers and Jedi powers. Maybe I am more impressed by the movies. So what is the whole nerd excitement still over after all these years ever since SONY basically screwed your first one up. Are light sabers really that interesting over maybe Indiana Jones or Ghostbusters, now those would make cool mmorpg's.
Expecting some hate but nothing I said was hateful, just a question on thoughts if anyone else sees it like me that the whole Star Wars thing is over played even though it had one major title previously for a mmorpg.
Fixed it for ya with the orangish yellow text.
As to Indiana Jones and Ghostbusters? Seriously? ROFLMAO! Maybe for yet another facebook game or some nonsense but seriously, an Indy mmo? Would not be possible while maintaining the IP.
while reading your post I was thinking the exact same thing.
What a way to absolutely wreck something that was huge in scope. I mean, "the force" does not require a scientific explanation.
"the force is what gives the jedi his power. It's an engergy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together."
nothing more was needed. *shakes fist at George Lucas*
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
IMO all of star wars is really played out..they keep trying to make mmo's of it and failing..sure swg was good when it 1st started out but with SOE people shoulda known it was doomed to fail..and all the huge over hype of this new one comeing out IMO it will die a slow and painfull death as well...what ever happened to originality ..for gawds sake someone come up with their own idea for a future type mmo insted of beating a dead horse to sell subs and avatars..
This seems sort of silly in my mind, and since I know you are not a REAL troll like myself, I wonder why you'd think this.
There is Everquest, EQ2, and EQNext? or something being made. Is an EQ MMORPG getting old? What about the Perfect World copies made by that company? Guild Wars and GW2. No problems with those?
Two different games by two different companies with two different settings. One was a themepark sandbox, the other a big themepark. I GUESS you could count the web game for Clone Wars, even though that is just mini games.
Basically, No, it sure isn't. I know many of the normal haters will say otherwise. People that don't like SW will of course be against it. Those that enjoy SW will be for it. Those that are indifferent just really won't care either way.
There, all answered.
I am very surprised you couldn't see the message inside the post.
He is basically asking if the whole star wars theme is just getting too old,to get excited over anymore.He is not asking people to differentiate between what developer makes what version of the game.
To answer the OP,yes i feel exactly that way,it is time to move on past this SW phenomena.I actually enjoyed the movies,but way back in the first installment of the games,i was never really thrilled to play them.
I highly doubt i will play SWTOR,even if it turns out to be a good,it is because i am generally not interested in known IP's turning into games.I rather see a developer be creastive from the ground up,all new ideas and maybe some new tech as well.
To answer this posters comment,YES Eq2/next /retro is getting old,and yes more installments of the Perfect world is also getting old,although i never liked it from day 1,so didn't take much to get old for me.I could only imagine if theree was a Wow 2,it would show the whole rpg scene is stagnant in need of some new creative developers.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Not to mention that in the lore itself , there is only ever 2 sith : a master and apprentice . No more, no less. So the idea that you could have loads of sith with light sabers running around , while obviously a wet dream to some , is a non starter.
I laughed, that's pretty funny.
The fact that there are only 2 Sith is not part of the "lore." The Sith were an actual civilization. The statement that you are referring to was an acknowledgement of cause and effect. The identification that if there is one Sith there must be other Sith to teach him.
The idiology behind my interpretation is that the Sith only deal in the absolute , and are self serving , the opposite pole as to the Jedi . Being only 2 makes sense since you , as a Sith ,have limited your competition to just 1.
Maybe from my perspective , as I look at Star Wars from the view of the George Lucas films , the Sith there have reached the pinnacle of Sith evolution . In that all other 'sith' have been eliminated over time via whatever means to arrive at being only 2.
But, since this is the old republic , I stand corrected if there were loads of 'sith' .
Howether , by the same logic I assume, does this make every Sith in the game as likely to turn round and kill other sith to further their goal? Sort of the Jedi is like your average 'faction' and works alongside each other , whereas the Sith is like a free-for-all pvp and watch your back at all times.
Or, was there a point in history of the old republic where suddenly the sith adopted the dark side and everything changed just prior to the Star Wars films?
You guys and Barcrow make some good points. All of this can be boiled down to Mr Lucas's story telling skills. Or the lack there of if you are feeling snarky. He started the SW universe with some very basic character ideas and then left it up to we fans to fill in the blanks with our own imaginations. Which actually worked quite well.
However then outside writers started to tinker with things during the time between the film series and prequels, which meant new lore had to be fleshed out. And then Lucas and pals wrote the prequels and tried like hell to expand the history and our knowledge of the SW universe. In my opinion this was a drastic mistake. Explaining the earlier unknow mystical things about the SW universe stole much of its charm. Epecially when the explinations were made in the most ass way possible. Midichlorians anyone?
Couldn't agree more. Especially on midichlorians and the erasure of the franchises mystique that it caused. I just had to use my imagination one more time and self-edit that crap. Still ...any grit ..any real balls the stories had...were pretty well neutered by various changes and content Lucas created or approved over the years. Try as I might though..I still can't stop loving the universe. Though my appreciation stems mostly from the original movies and some aspects of the other moving media. Only books I ever read concerning Star Wars were some late 70's Marvel Comics (god-awful imo) and Alan Dean Foster's "Splinter of the Mind's Eye"..which wasn't too great either.
This seems sort of silly in my mind, and since I know you are not a REAL troll like myself, I wonder why you'd think this.
There is Everquest, EQ2, and EQNext? or something being made. Is an EQ MMORPG getting old? What about the Perfect World copies made by that company? Guild Wars and GW2. No problems with those?
Two different games by two different companies with two different settings. One was a themepark sandbox, the other a big themepark. I GUESS you could count the web game for Clone Wars, even though that is just mini games.
Basically, No, it sure isn't. I know many of the normal haters will say otherwise. People that don't like SW will of course be against it. Those that enjoy SW will be for it. Those that are indifferent just really won't care either way.
This seems sort of silly in my mind, and since I know you are not a REAL troll like myself, I wonder why you'd think this.
There is Everquest, EQ2, and EQNext? or something being made. Is an EQ MMORPG getting old? What about the Perfect World copies made by that company? Guild Wars and GW2. No problems with those?
Two different games by two different companies with two different settings. One was a themepark sandbox, the other a big themepark. I GUESS you could count the web game for Clone Wars, even though that is just mini games.
Basically, No, it sure isn't. I know many of the normal haters will say otherwise. People that don't like SW will of course be against it. Those that enjoy SW will be for it. Those that are indifferent just really won't care either way.
There, all answered.
I am very surprised you couldn't see the message inside the post.
He is basically asking if the whole star wars theme is just getting too old,to get excited over anymore.He is not asking people to differentiate between what developer makes what version of the game.
To answer the OP,yes i feel exactly that way,it is time to move on past this SW phenomena.I actually enjoyed the movies,but way back in the first installment of the games,i was never really thrilled to play them.
I highly doubt i will play SWTOR,even if it turns out to be a good,it is because i am generally not interested in known IP's turning into games.I rather see a developer be creastive from the ground up,all new ideas and maybe some new tech as well.
To answer this posters comment,YES Eq2/next /retro is getting old,and yes more installments of the Perfect world is also getting old,although i never liked it from day 1,so didn't take much to get old for me.I could only imagine if theree was a Wow 2,it would show the whole rpg scene is stagnant in need of some new creative developers.
Thankfully we still got people like you who can read something and comprehend what it is about, thanks.
This seems sort of silly in my mind, and since I know you are not a REAL troll like myself, I wonder why you'd think this.
There is Everquest, EQ2, and EQNext? or something being made. Is an EQ MMORPG getting old? What about the Perfect World copies made by that company? Guild Wars and GW2. No problems with those?
Two different games by two different companies with two different settings. One was a themepark sandbox, the other a big themepark. I GUESS you could count the web game for Clone Wars, even though that is just mini games.
Basically, No, it sure isn't. I know many of the normal haters will say otherwise. People that don't like SW will of course be against it. Those that enjoy SW will be for it. Those that are indifferent just really won't care either way.
There, all answered.
I am very surprised you couldn't see the message inside the post.
He is basically asking if the whole star wars theme is just getting too old,to get excited over anymore.He is not asking people to differentiate between what developer makes what version of the game.
To answer the OP,yes i feel exactly that way,it is time to move on past this SW phenomena.I actually enjoyed the movies,but way back in the first installment of the games,i was never really thrilled to play them.
I highly doubt i will play SWTOR,even if it turns out to be a good,it is because i am generally not interested in known IP's turning into games.I rather see a developer be creastive from the ground up,all new ideas and maybe some new tech as well.
To answer this posters comment,YES Eq2/next /retro is getting old,and yes more installments of the Perfect world is also getting old,although i never liked it from day 1,so didn't take much to get old for me.I could only imagine if theree was a Wow 2,it would show the whole rpg scene is stagnant in need of some new creative developers.
Thankfully we still got people like you who can read something and comprehend what it is about, thanks.
then change the topic of the post, cause your title is wrong. there has been only 1 star wars mmo thus far.
Originally posted by demiqus But, since this is the old republic , I stand corrected if there were loads of 'sith' . Howether , by the same logic I assume, does this make every Sith in the game as likely to turn round and kill other sith to further their goal? Sort of the Jedi is like your average 'faction' and works alongside each other , whereas the Sith is like a free-for-all pvp and watch your back at all times. Or, was there a point in history of the old republic where suddenly the sith adopted the dark side and everything changed just prior to the Star Wars films?
I thought it was in The Phantom Menace that Yoda explained that the Sith went into hiding about 1,000 years earlier. That idea is expanded upon in some of the EU material where it explains how the Sith ended up adopting the "Rule of Two."
Too much backstory to explain if you really want to know:
My point though, is that most folks will believe what you said, especially when they arent familiar with much of the Star Wars EU. IF Bioware can overcome that (and maybe the Codex will help people once in-game) then they have a fairly blank slate which gives them a real shot to build a fairly open Star Wars Universe. Something SWG never had a chance to do.
To me, that clean slate, is a big part of what makes this game, and time period interesting. Since it hasnt been fleshed out, there is more for me to imagine, to work with, and to explore. I would have been interested for a variety of reasons, but it probably would have had a cap on it. The fact this isnt held hostage to the rest of the EU is really what makes it something I want to explore.
You want to know why Star WArs would be "getting old"? Oh that's simple. Star Wars was a universe and inside of that context it was a lot of different things. So in order to have a "star wars" MMO what do you need? Amazingly enough a virtual universe.
If someone said "hey here is a New York City MMO" and you plopped down some money. Then you get to sit in a cart and ride on some rails past mock ups of a few famous places. Would be any wonder that you felt ripped off or that it didn't much feel like New York City?
I never liked many of the Star Wars labeled games. Personally I thought SWG was a pretty good interpretation for a Star Wars MMO. There is always room for improvement but in my opinion the next one we'll see (yes TOR) will be that cart ride on some rails.
Which brings you to the point many people make about the market being stagnant. Well its stagnant because nobody is making virtual worlds anymore. You go explore some play field of a certain size which is pretty much a maze. You have NPC's with little signs over their heads and that's the cheese. You can't run over the hill anymore and you are back to those little invisible barriers that DAoC had years ago.
Its funny when a game like Ultima Online back in 1997 in most ways offered more than any MMO made 10 years and change later. Well its not funny its just sad really.
As customers nobody is offering us more. At best they have a more effecient path from A to B and that's about it.
But, since this is the old republic , I stand corrected if there were loads of 'sith' .
Howether , by the same logic I assume, does this make every Sith in the game as likely to turn round and kill other sith to further their goal? Sort of the Jedi is like your average 'faction' and works alongside each other , whereas the Sith is like a free-for-all pvp and watch your back at all times.
Or, was there a point in history of the old republic where suddenly the sith adopted the dark side and everything changed just prior to the Star Wars films?
I thought it was in The Phantom Menace that Yoda explained that the Sith went into hiding about 1,000 years earlier. That idea is expanded upon in some of the EU material where it explains how the Sith ended up adopting the "Rule of Two."
Too much backstory to explain if you really want to know:
My point though, is that most folks will believe what you said, especially when they arent familiar with much of the Star Wars EU. IF Bioware can overcome that (and maybe the Codex will help people once in-game) then they have a fairly blank slate which gives them a real shot to build a fairly open Star Wars Universe. Something SWG never had a chance to do.
To me, that clean slate, is a big part of what makes this game, and time period interesting. Since it hasnt been fleshed out, there is more for me to imagine, to work with, and to explore. I would have been interested for a variety of reasons, but it probably would have had a cap on it. The fact this isnt held hostage to the rest of the EU is really what makes it something I want to explore.
Its important to keep in mind that Lucas has repeatedly said the majority of the EU is not cannon. The movies, the current clone wars series (not the Gendry Tartovsky one) and SW:Kotor (showing Lucas's trust in bioware) are recognised cannon.
With the setting they have chosen Bioware have a largely blank slate to work with. The big problem with SWG (other than sony ruining it) was they decided to set the game in the midst of the original 3 star wars movies which gave them a massive ammount of restrictions they could not violate without breaking official cannon.
You want to know why Star WArs would be "getting old"? Oh that's simple. Star Wars was a universe and inside of that context it was a lot of different things. So in order to have a "star wars" MMO what do you need? Amazingly enough a virtual universe.
If someone said "hey here is a New York City MMO" and you plopped down some money. Then you get to sit in a cart and ride on some rails past mock ups of a few famous places. Would be any wonder that you felt ripped off or that it didn't much feel like New York City?
I never liked many of the Star Wars labeled games. Personally I thought SWG was a pretty good interpretation for a Star Wars MMO. There is always room for improvement but in my opinion the next one we'll see (yes TOR) will be that cart ride on some rails.
Which brings you to the point many people make about the market being stagnant. Well its stagnant because nobody is making virtual worlds anymore. You go explore some play field of a certain size which is pretty much a maze. You have NPC's with little signs over their heads and that's the cheese. You can't run over the hill anymore and you are back to those little invisible barriers that DAoC had years ago.
Its funny when a game like Ultima Online back in 1997 in most ways offered more than any MMO made 10 years and change later. Well its not funny its just sad really.
As customers nobody is offering us more. At best they have a more effecient path from A to B and that's about it.
Well thought out, I agree. And on top that I do see the point when you make something so epic so grand in scale that delivered on screen in the movies and try make a game about it online it has to be done right and not lack or it will be just a boring ride. Good point.
It just needs to get a little darker or grittier. It's gotten too childish or silly. I know it's for children, but so is Lord of the Rings. The books and the movies werent childish for that IP and have held their appeal better because of it in my opinion. The new direction of SW was an insult to some hard core fans.
Like the "decieved" and 'hope' trailers for Swtor. SW needs to go in that direction.
If they wanted action, make it badass, not feminine.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Really, though. Good Sci-fi mmo's = ....like 2? 3?
Good fantasy mmo's = bagillions (good being relative....decent wow clones are good)
Most Sci-fi mmo's that come out invariably end up sucking. And to be honest the first Star Wars mmo doesn't count because it's just too horrible.
SOE had a good start and they needed to fix a bunch of stuff, but instead of fixing what they had, they decided to basically shove a bunch of new stuff in to the mix.
Comments
Honestly, I was there when the Star Wars phenomenon all started back in the 70's, thought it was a bit corny but loved the 2nd/3rd movies. I'll agree, by now the IP is sort of played out with me, SWTOR is just another space themed MMORPG in my books, and I would prefer a game on a more modern and unusual IP such as the Farscape Universe. (or maybe even LEX)
Heck, a DR Who MMORPG could be really cool, would love to battle some Darleks.
But back on topic, I'll play SWTOR, just to be like everyone else, and who knows, I'll probably have some fun doing it.
But it certainly isn't the fulfillment of my lifelong dream or anything.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I was watching Dr Who in the early 80's :P So while it hasnt been around as long, its not far behind for some of us!
I have to disagree, the main attribute of Star Wars is two factions that are constantly at battle with each other. Making the franchise into a non PVP mmorpg makes no sense. You have to agree that there was no cold war in Star Wars, sides did not play bully and puss out when conflict occurred. Star Wars was always a conflict and war between factions, even George has said multiple times about this. If he says then the game is about PVP then it should be all PVP because of how the title is. I never once seen the movies and thought, wow they are not at war but in a confrontational cold war. They had the same war and faction problems on planets far away so how could the whole universe been at the same war and not be at war? Doesn't make sense for the Star Wars theme.
Speaking of other franchises, a Dune MMORPG would be great, or a Blade Runner MMORPG or even a smart and unforgiving Aliens MMOFPS, or one that plays in Ian M Banks Culture universe or Greg Bear's The Way universe from his Eon and Eternity books.
/offtopic
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Yes!
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I see your points. My point is it is a universe where other beings..though affected by the war around them..also have other responsibilities. America is in a few conflicts...and though there are people fighting them (hopefully to come back in one piece ..bless em)....fighting so the many more at home can attempt to keep the country going as usual .
As for no cold war in Star Wars..well...that's pretty much exactly what most of the first episode was with all the manipulation and political intrigue...then it runs parallel with the actual clone war through episode 2 and 3 and the clone wars animated series. Palpatine was conducting a physical war on both sides as well as a clandestine "cold" war on a political level.
As to what George Lucas said about his original intent on the films...I guess he can change his mind whenever he wants...he's the creator. I just know that ..at one point he states his films were always aimed at kids..and that's his justification of cutesy stylized Clone Wars animated series (now granted..some of those episodes are very decent). Anyway ...we all know severed limbs , telekinetic choking , torture, burning corpses and screaming as they are vaporized fighter pilots are all on a parents "must watch" list for their children. This is the guy that took a decent anti-hero and made him less complicated by re-tooling his original vision so it seemed that Greedo shot first. ....and don't get me started on 3D re-release plans...the man will do absolutely anything to his films to keep the money stream flowing. One of the reasons I don't blame SOE entirely on what happened with SWG is because I imagined Lucas looking at SWG and smiling at the numbers..then looks over at WOW and his pupils mutate into dollar signs....grabbing Smedley in one hand ... drooling and shaking a copy of Vanilla WOW in his other hand...all the while repeating "Cha-Ching" over and over to the sound of the Star Wars theme.
Sorry for the rant. Any way it's made...I'm still going to play SW:TOR and will likely enjoy my arse off.
The idiology behind my interpretation is that the Sith only deal in the absolute , and are self serving , the opposite pole as to the Jedi . Being only 2 makes sense since you , as a Sith ,have limited your competition to just 1.
Maybe from my perspective , as I look at Star Wars from the view of the George Lucas films , the Sith there have reached the pinnacle of Sith evolution . In that all other 'sith' have been eliminated over time via whatever means to arrive at being only 2.
But, since this is the old republic , I stand corrected if there were loads of 'sith' .
Howether , by the same logic I assume, does this make every Sith in the game as likely to turn round and kill other sith to further their goal? Sort of the Jedi is like your average 'faction' and works alongside each other , whereas the Sith is like a free-for-all pvp and watch your back at all times.
Or, was there a point in history of the old republic where suddenly the sith adopted the dark side and everything changed just prior to the Star Wars films?
Even with two factions fighting each other a game doesn't have to be pvp.It can be a player faction fighting an npc faction.Early in the development of swg that's what the war was going to be, player rebels fighting npc imperials.
You guys and Barcrow make some good points. All of this can be boiled down to Mr Lucas's story telling skills. Or the lack there of if you are feeling snarky. He started the SW universe with some very basic character ideas and then left it up to we fans to fill in the blanks with our own imaginations. Which actually worked quite well.
However then outside writers started to tinker with things during the time between the film series and prequels, which meant new lore had to be fleshed out. And then Lucas and pals wrote the prequels and tried like hell to expand the history and our knowledge of the SW universe. In my opinion this was a drastic mistake. Explaining the earlier unknow mystical things about the SW universe stole much of its charm. Epecially when the explinations were made in the most ass way possible. Midichlorians anyone?
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Fixed it for ya with the orangish yellow text.
As to Indiana Jones and Ghostbusters? Seriously? ROFLMAO! Maybe for yet another facebook game or some nonsense but seriously, an Indy mmo? Would not be possible while maintaining the IP.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
while reading your post I was thinking the exact same thing.
What a way to absolutely wreck something that was huge in scope. I mean, "the force" does not require a scientific explanation.
"the force is what gives the jedi his power. It's an engergy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together."
nothing more was needed. *shakes fist at George Lucas*
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well you already have a Blade Runner game and it was quite fun ...
IMO all of star wars is really played out..they keep trying to make mmo's of it and failing..sure swg was good when it 1st started out but with SOE people shoulda known it was doomed to fail..and all the huge over hype of this new one comeing out IMO it will die a slow and painfull death as well...what ever happened to originality ..for gawds sake someone come up with their own idea for a future type mmo insted of beating a dead horse to sell subs and avatars..
I am very surprised you couldn't see the message inside the post.
He is basically asking if the whole star wars theme is just getting too old,to get excited over anymore.He is not asking people to differentiate between what developer makes what version of the game.
To answer the OP,yes i feel exactly that way,it is time to move on past this SW phenomena.I actually enjoyed the movies,but way back in the first installment of the games,i was never really thrilled to play them.
I highly doubt i will play SWTOR,even if it turns out to be a good,it is because i am generally not interested in known IP's turning into games.I rather see a developer be creastive from the ground up,all new ideas and maybe some new tech as well.
To answer this posters comment,YES Eq2/next /retro is getting old,and yes more installments of the Perfect world is also getting old,although i never liked it from day 1,so didn't take much to get old for me.I could only imagine if theree was a Wow 2,it would show the whole rpg scene is stagnant in need of some new creative developers.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Couldn't agree more. Especially on midichlorians and the erasure of the franchises mystique that it caused. I just had to use my imagination one more time and self-edit that crap. Still ...any grit ..any real balls the stories had...were pretty well neutered by various changes and content Lucas created or approved over the years. Try as I might though..I still can't stop loving the universe. Though my appreciation stems mostly from the original movies and some aspects of the other moving media. Only books I ever read concerning Star Wars were some late 70's Marvel Comics (god-awful imo) and Alan Dean Foster's "Splinter of the Mind's Eye"..which wasn't too great either.
agreed
we need a drama llama emote
Thankfully we still got people like you who can read something and comprehend what it is about, thanks.
then change the topic of the post, cause your title is wrong. there has been only 1 star wars mmo thus far.
I thought it was in The Phantom Menace that Yoda explained that the Sith went into hiding about 1,000 years earlier. That idea is expanded upon in some of the EU material where it explains how the Sith ended up adopting the "Rule of Two."
Too much backstory to explain if you really want to know:
Rule of Two
Sith History
My point though, is that most folks will believe what you said, especially when they arent familiar with much of the Star Wars EU. IF Bioware can overcome that (and maybe the Codex will help people once in-game) then they have a fairly blank slate which gives them a real shot to build a fairly open Star Wars Universe. Something SWG never had a chance to do.
To me, that clean slate, is a big part of what makes this game, and time period interesting. Since it hasnt been fleshed out, there is more for me to imagine, to work with, and to explore. I would have been interested for a variety of reasons, but it probably would have had a cap on it. The fact this isnt held hostage to the rest of the EU is really what makes it something I want to explore.
Starwars mmo's = 2
Fantasy setting mmo's = lost count
so in short, no
Odd question but its very specific as well.
You want to know why Star WArs would be "getting old"? Oh that's simple. Star Wars was a universe and inside of that context it was a lot of different things. So in order to have a "star wars" MMO what do you need? Amazingly enough a virtual universe.
If someone said "hey here is a New York City MMO" and you plopped down some money. Then you get to sit in a cart and ride on some rails past mock ups of a few famous places. Would be any wonder that you felt ripped off or that it didn't much feel like New York City?
I never liked many of the Star Wars labeled games. Personally I thought SWG was a pretty good interpretation for a Star Wars MMO. There is always room for improvement but in my opinion the next one we'll see (yes TOR) will be that cart ride on some rails.
Which brings you to the point many people make about the market being stagnant. Well its stagnant because nobody is making virtual worlds anymore. You go explore some play field of a certain size which is pretty much a maze. You have NPC's with little signs over their heads and that's the cheese. You can't run over the hill anymore and you are back to those little invisible barriers that DAoC had years ago.
Its funny when a game like Ultima Online back in 1997 in most ways offered more than any MMO made 10 years and change later. Well its not funny its just sad really.
As customers nobody is offering us more. At best they have a more effecient path from A to B and that's about it.
Its important to keep in mind that Lucas has repeatedly said the majority of the EU is not cannon. The movies, the current clone wars series (not the Gendry Tartovsky one) and SW:Kotor (showing Lucas's trust in bioware) are recognised cannon.
With the setting they have chosen Bioware have a largely blank slate to work with. The big problem with SWG (other than sony ruining it) was they decided to set the game in the midst of the original 3 star wars movies which gave them a massive ammount of restrictions they could not violate without breaking official cannon.
Well thought out, I agree. And on top that I do see the point when you make something so epic so grand in scale that delivered on screen in the movies and try make a game about it online it has to be done right and not lack or it will be just a boring ride. Good point.
Never gets old!!
It just needs to get a little darker or grittier. It's gotten too childish or silly. I know it's for children, but so is Lord of the Rings. The books and the movies werent childish for that IP and have held their appeal better because of it in my opinion. The new direction of SW was an insult to some hard core fans.
Like the "decieved" and 'hope' trailers for Swtor. SW needs to go in that direction.
If they wanted action, make it badass, not feminine.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Haha, good on ya!
Really, though. Good Sci-fi mmo's = ....like 2? 3?
Good fantasy mmo's = bagillions (good being relative....decent wow clones are good)
Most Sci-fi mmo's that come out invariably end up sucking. And to be honest the first Star Wars mmo doesn't count because it's just too horrible.
SOE had a good start and they needed to fix a bunch of stuff, but instead of fixing what they had, they decided to basically shove a bunch of new stuff in to the mix.
A new Star Wars mmo is necessary.