I could not agree more. To see "all" max lvls in WoW (for example) and see that they all use the same gear because you only have 1 item for each slot being the best of all is so silly to me.. it makes the game super boring imo.Ever since I played WoW end-game for the first time I have been talking about this problem with friends and we all agree on it. Randomized stats on loot like Diablo style is so much more fun. Of course some people would not agree on this. Never will everyone agree on something because everyone has their own opinions, but I believe that there are enough people who would want to see randomized stats and loot in an MMO that it wouldnt be a dumb idea to make a game with a system like that sometime.
I agree completely. This would be great for tons of games. I also really like designs in which crated items are all there are, or are the majority of gear/tools/weapons. When the loot is random, or can be created by players in a dynamic way, and either cannot be repaired or cannot be totally of always repaired, the player economy is much better because you do not have this stagnation at the top when players get the best gear.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
As far as the whole "everyone looks the same" they could always follow what ANet is doing, transferring stats to a set you liked graphically. Hear Aion started this but was actually rooted in Neverwinter Nights that allowed this.
I agree! Leveling up to "end game" only to be going for the same 1 item per slot as everyone else is dull and takes the fun out of character customization. I've always thought randomized loot/stats/drops would be a better approach to how gear is collected.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
The current WoW based itemization actually is an improved Diablo 2 itemization system with Common, Uncommon, Rare, Epic and Set items. You know your usually Green, Blue, Purple crap. It's gotten too old and boring.
Usually the items are level-based with a very predictible pattern.
Just an example of how boring and predictible the WoW itemization is... This is just an unrealistic example (I haven't played WoW for a long time)..
Level 10 Green Armor has +2 to two stats
Level 15 Green Armor would have +3 to two stats
Level 20 Green Armor would have +4 to two stats
Level 25 Green Armor... yes you guessed it +5 to two stats
You want to make an even more shallow itemization? Random? Really? *Sigh*
I want individually designed items. I want each boss/named table to be specifically designed by a living being. Cat, Human or Manpigbear I don't care. But no algorithms or mathematically calculated items.
A good example of how really "random" items are is EverQuest Vanilla. There was no tiers and stuff were really random. A lot had Clickies (I miss clickies....Journeyman Boots were great) these were invaluable because of the clicky effect. The permanent ability effect was also unique like the Cloak of Flames with +10 damage shield or that Fungus Tunic that gives insane regeneration.
Enough with this Green, Blue, Purple perfectly balanced yet boring itemization system.
No offense, I think this random loot thing is really overrated. Tabletop games like 2nd edition D&D's random magic item tables were the epitome of bad design when everyone needed a +3 weapon at level 12 just to be able to damage most magical beasts and creatures. 3rd edition added in craft magic item abilities spellcasters could take that without specific components and a lot of gold pop out level effective items so the DM didn't need to work out perfect item placement. 4th edition actually encourages wishlists and looking at the player's planned build for their character for what weapon/implement they should get.
Having a character that is always half equipped and striving for uberloot is not very fun, but when your perfect weapon is anywhere from tomorrow to hungreds of hours worth of grinded gold or mobs away, it's even worse. Even *if* gear is kept relatively similar, we are in the age of the guided game. People do math, make up charts, and share near-perfect info on everything in the game, and actually *find* out what is a perfect or near perfect random drop. This simply existing ruins economies because it can't be reliably obtained. A tiny stat difference that can make or break an entire character build could be hundreds of hours of farmed currency, and most games need MORE hardcore blockers in place, not more ways to alienate newcomers to a game.
Tiers is the worst design ever imo. This limits you to a very small number of zones/dungeons given your current gear level. Look at Guild Wars. That game did it right. There are many zones, elite missions, mission, quests and dungeons for max level so you have a huge variety. Then again you also have hardmode which makes every mission/zone/dungeon challenging for max levels characters. Now they have began to add hard mode quests.
Imo horizontal spread of zones/dungeons + random loot + fixed loot (unique items/sets etc) is it a much nicer system than what we have in most MMOs.
Comments
I could not agree more. To see "all" max lvls in WoW (for example) and see that they all use the same gear because you only have 1 item for each slot being the best of all is so silly to me.. it makes the game super boring imo.Ever since I played WoW end-game for the first time I have been talking about this problem with friends and we all agree on it. Randomized stats on loot like Diablo style is so much more fun. Of course some people would not agree on this. Never will everyone agree on something because everyone has their own opinions, but I believe that there are enough people who would want to see randomized stats and loot in an MMO that it wouldnt be a dumb idea to make a game with a system like that sometime.
I agree completely. This would be great for tons of games. I also really like designs in which crated items are all there are, or are the majority of gear/tools/weapons. When the loot is random, or can be created by players in a dynamic way, and either cannot be repaired or cannot be totally of always repaired, the player economy is much better because you do not have this stagnation at the top when players get the best gear.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
As far as the whole "everyone looks the same" they could always follow what ANet is doing, transferring stats to a set you liked graphically. Hear Aion started this but was actually rooted in Neverwinter Nights that allowed this.
Sweet, a subject I can give a short response to!
I agree! Leveling up to "end game" only to be going for the same 1 item per slot as everyone else is dull and takes the fun out of character customization. I've always thought randomized loot/stats/drops would be a better approach to how gear is collected.
This is not a troll, flame, or anything else worth banning me over. It is simply my pure opinion, and I have a right to share it.
The current WoW based itemization actually is an improved Diablo 2 itemization system with Common, Uncommon, Rare, Epic and Set items. You know your usually Green, Blue, Purple crap. It's gotten too old and boring.
Usually the items are level-based with a very predictible pattern.
Just an example of how boring and predictible the WoW itemization is... This is just an unrealistic example (I haven't played WoW for a long time)..
Level 10 Green Armor has +2 to two stats
Level 15 Green Armor would have +3 to two stats
Level 20 Green Armor would have +4 to two stats
Level 25 Green Armor... yes you guessed it +5 to two stats
You want to make an even more shallow itemization? Random? Really? *Sigh*
I want individually designed items. I want each boss/named table to be specifically designed by a living being. Cat, Human or Manpigbear I don't care. But no algorithms or mathematically calculated items.
A good example of how really "random" items are is EverQuest Vanilla. There was no tiers and stuff were really random. A lot had Clickies (I miss clickies....Journeyman Boots were great) these were invaluable because of the clicky effect. The permanent ability effect was also unique like the Cloak of Flames with +10 damage shield or that Fungus Tunic that gives insane regeneration.
Enough with this Green, Blue, Purple perfectly balanced yet boring itemization system.
No offense, I think this random loot thing is really overrated. Tabletop games like 2nd edition D&D's random magic item tables were the epitome of bad design when everyone needed a +3 weapon at level 12 just to be able to damage most magical beasts and creatures. 3rd edition added in craft magic item abilities spellcasters could take that without specific components and a lot of gold pop out level effective items so the DM didn't need to work out perfect item placement. 4th edition actually encourages wishlists and looking at the player's planned build for their character for what weapon/implement they should get.
Having a character that is always half equipped and striving for uberloot is not very fun, but when your perfect weapon is anywhere from tomorrow to hungreds of hours worth of grinded gold or mobs away, it's even worse. Even *if* gear is kept relatively similar, we are in the age of the guided game. People do math, make up charts, and share near-perfect info on everything in the game, and actually *find* out what is a perfect or near perfect random drop. This simply existing ruins economies because it can't be reliably obtained. A tiny stat difference that can make or break an entire character build could be hundreds of hours of farmed currency, and most games need MORE hardcore blockers in place, not more ways to alienate newcomers to a game.
This x10.
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