Problem with the classes, and how having advanced class is useless

Zorgo

Until someone solves the problems which comes as result of each class being self sufficient, the holy trinity will exist.

I don't care how much you guys don't like it, you would like the alternative even less. Without interdependence in the group, there is no group. Solve this problem first, then you can tackle the trinity.

Until then, kudos to games which have given you the ability to switch your role for the needed situation. It is a step in solving the problems with the trinity. While not perfect, it's better than nothing and proves that devs are at least recognizing some of the issues.

But remember, no matter what the system, there will be intended and unintended consequences to the system. You guys all seem to think that ending the trinity will solve all your problems before you have even experienced the negative consequences an alternative system brings with it.

But more to the point at hand. You folks haven't played the SWOTOR class system, you've just read about it. Stop pre-judging. I understand skepticism but that is not this conversation - this conversation involves certitude without experience, that bothers me.

Their system may be a twist on the traditional, but maybe you'll like the twist more than you dislike the traditional - you won't know until you play it. And if you go in with a pre-conceived notion, you will likely have a pre-determined result.

The more you folks pick apart the details of this game, the less chance you will have of enjoying it. I gaurentee that what you are imagining about the game, good or bad is going to be different in reality to your preconceptions based upon a comprehensive PR campaign designed to sell the game. Some of you drink the koolaid and expect the greatest game of all time. Some of you are skeptics and thus relentlessly look for faults to prove the corporate devils wrong. Both of you groups are going to be dissappointed.

I, personally, am anticipating this game highly yet not spending any extra time seeking out the vid clips, registering on the site, being on the mailing lists and I spend very little time in these forums. I bet Ilike the game a lot more than a lot of you who have wasted these developmental years assuming things about a game you haven't played and consuming things given to you by an ad campaign.

nomss

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by nomss

Originally posted by Souldrainer

At the heart of it, this whole problem would be solved if the world listened to me.  For about 4 years now, I have been saying that the "trinity" system of classes is dying.  People are realizing that there is more to fun gaming than looking for a tank and/or healer all day.

Some say "but I like to tank and/or heal."  ---> how is that relevant to the fact that there is a shortage?

Some say "it's not that bad."  --->  45 minute queue times in WOW.  Not bad, horrible!

Some say "let guilds sort that out." ---> Great, so now you want guild recruiters to spend thousands of hours doing this, and dozens of hours playing the game?  Sounds fair.

Some say "TOR has the master plan and will fix this." --- > regardless of what you think they are doing with it, it's still trinity, aka putting polish on a turd.

I'm going to grab this game for the story/voice overs and the single player style aspects, but if they expect to hold my interest with holy trinity raiding and two-faction PVP, they're sadly mistaken.  I'll just level up alts until I get bored, then call it a month.

Well put man, this is exactly what I have been trying to say. This is excatly why TOR does not have my full attention but GW2 does. You can't say "Oh he does not have social skills." This is just wrong, what's right is: he does not want to wait around for 45 minutes and play for 15 minutes b/c he's only got an hour to play. Even this EA or BW discussed it. They were like we know this is the problem. Too bad they are not solving it...

Well, that's not entirely true, they did solve it, in their own way.

You have Companions to fill in any gap there might be when you're missing a specific role in a group. Also, there's a large emphasis on a soft trinity, where classes are good in fulfilling various roles in their own way and all have healing skills outside combat and revive skills. Also devs stated that it would be possible to engage combat successfully with a group that seems to lack a pure/dedicated healer or tank, it would be more of a challenge but still very much possible. Granted, we have to see how this works in practice.

Of course, it doesn't solve the problem if people have grown completely bored with any form of trinity oriented combat, but then again, you have also people who have grown completely bored with themepark styled gameplay, no game can please everyone.

I had forgotten the companions. I guess. Though I can see many people will be staying away from companions in the Flash points. But then again its also likely in GW2 the certain group leaders be like we need certain job.

Theomastus

Originally posted by nomss

I had forgotten the companions. I guess. Though I can see many people will be staying away from companions in the Flash points. 

Well, the info we have seems to indicate that the role of Companions in PvP and Instances has undergone some recent re-evaluation at BW, it sounds like  Companions may a way out of the LFT/LFH problem- apparantly it is possible to 2 man an instance using companion characters to fill in the empty slots.

Since we've only seen a very limited amount of information on FPs and none at all on higher level ones, theres no way to know if this is somthing that would work all the way to cap, or only in the very lower level FPs.  

Like anything else in an MMO, skilled players will find ways to do things that players of average skill levels are simply not capable of executing.