For those who are still not getting the flaw that was made by the OP....
ArcheAge will have both: FFA and FvF!
You don't need to decide between the two, you can have them both at the same time, you just need to go to the appropriate places depending on what you prefer.
Additionally ArcheAge will have alot of PvE-content in rather safe areas, as there's NPC-guards running around on the two faction-continents, and because there's harsh penalties for killing people of your own faction on those two continents aswell. Only the third continent, where there's territorial warfare is 100% FFA PvP governed by the players themselves.
And for those thinking that this doesn't work... It works in EvE Online for years now.
I feel like we already discussed this in the AA forum, but I'll go ahead and say what I said before.
I have one major reason why I don't like faction style PvP. It limits you from choosing the classes, races, and starting areas you want to use and it forces you to pick one that your friends are going to pick. Like when I played DAoC, I wanted Midgard, one of my buddies wanted Albion, but two wanted hibernia so we were stuck with hibernia even though we didn't want to be there. Then when my friends convinced me to try WoW I wanted to be a alliance but they were all horde so I couldn't and i had to pick a race that I hated the look of.
With FFA games I can be anything available in the world and not be mortal enemies of my friends characters. We can join any guild together no matter what our race is and fight against people we don't like. Yes you have to watch your back when roaming around solo, but that adds to the danger factor that some games don't have.
On a side note you have to have something in place to discourage rampant ganking from high levels fighting low levels in FFA games. Nobody wants to get killed 12 times in 30 mins when they are level 5 by a level 50. So something has to be in place to make those jerks think twice about it. But at the same time be able to kill that obnoxious level 5 that's spamming the general chat with nonsense.
The cool things is XLgames has already said they plan on implenting both so I don't know why everyone assumes this game is going to be FFA, read up on the game folks, you likely enjoy what you find.
Suicide ganking, wardec griefing, can flipping, spying alts and everybody's favorite - low-sec just to mention a few. Hell yeah, EVE FFA works great!!!
Sorry, but people pointing towards EVE as being the stellar example of FFA working great just makes me laugh.
Sure, it's the best out there of those that I've tried, it does add depth and has its own unique charm that I personally like, but the EVE FFA system is riddled with its own problems and isn't IMHO a terribly great example of FFA done right.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
For those who are still not getting the flaw that was made by the OP....
ArcheAge will have both: FFA and FvF!
You don't need to decide between the two, you can have them both at the same time, you just need to go to the appropriate places depending on what you prefer.
Additionally ArcheAge will have alot of PvE-content in rather safe areas, as there's NPC-guards running around on the two faction-continents, and because there's harsh penalties for killing people of your own faction on those two continents aswell. Only the third continent, where there's territorial warfare is 100% FFA PvP governed by the players themselves.
And for those thinking that this doesn't work... It works in EvE Online for years now.
Thats really not FFA, free for ALL is FFA. If people can stay in areas and just have faction pvp...then the FFA areas are just zones, or areas. They should make a fully open pvp server, a lot of people from the Darkfall and Lineage II, even some from UO are looking at this game...those players will not be happy with a developer saying the game is partiall FFA. Theres no such thing as partial, when using the term all.
Incognito www.incognito-gaming.us "You're either with us or against us"
FFA makes for the best pvp simply because of the political aspects that the clans will create amongst one another. The key to making ffa work is to ensure their is some type of consequences for being a pker. If thats not done the game will just become a gank fest. From the looks of it and knowing that Lineage Devs are helping in the build...I have a lot of faith this pvp system will be done right.
I hear where you are coming from, but it just sounds silly to have consequences for PKing someone in a PvP game. You are supposed to kill people. You have to get good at PvP by killing people. One of the attractions of FFA is that you can kill anyone anywhere. Once you start putting restrictions and consequences, you might as well have static factions, in my opinion.
The irony for me is, in a FFA PvP environment, I'm less likely to actually engage in combat with other players. I'm not the kind of person that just goes around randomly killing players. I know it might ruin their day and that is a turn off to me, whereas in a faction game, if we are at war, then you deserve to die. On the flip-side of the coin, it's more difficult for me to make friends in a FFA environment. I don't trust other players and tend to avoid them entirely. In a faction game, I know who my enemies are, and I can go and "practice" at will, without worrying about consequences.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I like the system that AA is trying to put out and imagine 6 months after release where there are lots of player factions, each having thier own alliances and enemies. Having a jail system is development progress IMO, at least for AA. There should be consequences that coincide with the what is going on in game. Doesn't it add realism to the game? Unrestricted FFA seems too battleground to me and though most people are level headed it only takes a handful of need-a-hugs to ruin it for everyone else.
Originally posted by Yalexy For those who are still not getting the flaw that was made by the OP.... ArcheAge will have both: FFA and FvF! You don't need to decide between the two, you can have them both at the same time, you just need to go to the appropriate places depending on what you prefer. Additionally ArcheAge will have alot of PvE-content in rather safe areas, as there's NPC-guards running around on the two faction-continents, and because there's harsh penalties for killing people of your own faction on those two continents aswell. Only the third continent, where there's territorial warfare is 100% FFA PvP governed by the players themselves. And for those thinking that this doesn't work... It works in EvE Online for years now.
Thats really not FFA, free for ALL is FFA. If people can stay in areas and just have faction pvp...then the FFA areas are just zones, or areas. They should make a fully open pvp server, a lot of people from the Darkfall and Lineage II, even some from UO are looking at this game...those players will not be happy with a developer saying the game is partiall FFA. Theres no such thing as partial, when using the term all.
You can still attack anyone wherever you want... you just have to deal with the consequences.
If you don't want to deal with consequences for mindless gannking however, then you're looking for the wrong game.
I like the system that AA is trying to put out and imagine 6 months after release where there are lots of player factions, each having thier own alliances and enemies. Having a jail system is development progress IMO, at least for AA. There should be consequences that coincide with the what is going on in game. Doesn't it add realism to the game? Unrestricted FFA seems too battleground to me and though most people are level headed it only takes a handful of need-a-hugs to ruin it for everyone else.
Agreed. Even if the most lawless areas during any period have there always been consequences for going around and killing random people, at least in the long run.
I would actually like a game with a system that allowed players to police other players instead of npcs. Groups of knights riding around and keeping the order (with good rewards for all criminals they kill or arrest) would make an awesome game, add realism and solve the problem.
I am a direhardcore FFA PvP fan, but I can accept FvF if done right (persistant open world pvp with meanin (ie territorial controll, structures to gain and loose--perhaps live in them like a clan city and be able to have them taken away--in the persistant world, things to fight fotr in general) as long as it isnt JUST TWO FACTIONS. There has to be atleast 3. Tere is no way I would let such a great MMO title ruin its self with the classic 'Good vs Evil' crap.
Carebears don't whine about griefers. Not every one is a griefer, just that random asshoold. Most of the PvP crowd are actually against them too. Dickheads will be dickheads. Just gotta deal with it and try to use some game mechanics for their disadvantage right back at em, or move on.
Why does it matter? It's going to be a level/gear grind game, and the top powergamers are going to dominate. The rest will start dropping off as they see they can't keep up with them.
In a FvF game, you can feel like you're on the same side as those top powergamers, working together, helping eachother defeat the common enemy, etc. Instead of hopelessly competing against them.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
The irony for me is, in a FFA PvP environment, I'm less likely to actually engage in combat with other players. I'm not the kind of person that just goes around randomly killing players. I know it might ruin their day and that is a turn off to me, whereas in a faction game, if we are at war, then you deserve to die. On the flip-side of the coin, it's more difficult for me to make friends in a FFA environment. I don't trust other players and tend to avoid them entirely. In a faction game, I know who my enemies are, and I can go and "practice" at will, without worrying about consequences.
I can completely relate to that. In EVE, I've never opened fire on anyone just because it's an option and I just can't see myself actually ganking someone in EVE just for fun. Well, unless it's a bot that is hehe. Furthermore, I find myself limiting my interaction with other people because I just don't trust anyone. In WoW on the other hand, I'm usually one of the first to jump at the opportunity to join my fellow horde members in an attack on the alliance if a world PvP event is forming and if a low level alliance player happens to be in the way, I've more than once turned him/her into pink mist with my fishing pole for the added entertainment value. But I figure that's okay since I expect the alliance to treat me the same way. To me, FFA PvP tends to make things a bit too personal, whereas factional warfare feels more like us competing versus them.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
The irony for me is, in a FFA PvP environment, I'm less likely to actually engage in combat with other players. I'm not the kind of person that just goes around randomly killing players. I know it might ruin their day and that is a turn off to me, whereas in a faction game, if we are at war, then you deserve to die. On the flip-side of the coin, it's more difficult for me to make friends in a FFA environment. I don't trust other players and tend to avoid them entirely. In a faction game, I know who my enemies are, and I can go and "practice" at will, without worrying about consequences.
I can completely relate to that. In EVE, I've never opened fire on anyone just because it's an option and I just can't see myself actually ganking someone in EVE just for fun. Well, unless it's a bot that is hehe. Furthermore, I find myself limiting my interaction with other people because I just don't trust anyone. In WoW on the other hand, I'm usually one of the first to jump at the opportunity to join my fellow horde members in an attack on the alliance if a world PvP event is forming and if a low level alliance player happens to be in the way, I've more than once turned him/her into pink mist with my fishing pole for the added entertainment value. But I figure that's okay since I expect the alliance to treat me the same way. To me, FFA PvP tends to make things a bit too personal, whereas factional warfare feels more like us competing versus them.
Join a nullsec corp/alliance in EvE and suddenly FFA PvP is exactly the same like FvF. You have plenty of hostile and friendly flagged players and know exactly whom to shoot at this way.
What I do absolutely dislike about FvF in the traditional way is, that there's no politics involved there... no social engineering needed at all etc. no real reason to fight against the other side. In a game with FFA PvP, territorial warfare and ressource-control tho, there's a reason to fight suddenly and in much more depth aswell.
Competition is only fun, where there's good rewards for the winners and tears for the loosers. When it's only about the fun fights, then I can play tactical shooters without a monthly fee and I don't need a persistent world for that aswell.
The problem most people have with FFA PvP is, that they ultimately think about ganking other players without a reason, which is a totally wrong mindset, if theres consequences for mindlessly ganking other players. You think twice before you engage someone, if this results in the loss of access to PvE-content needed to maintain your character.
In terms of faction pvp, game starts out with two factions, with them capable of splitting as well as player nations and etc, so this can be 1factionvs1 or 2vs2 or 24782572vs527452.
But that does notlimit FFA. You can still kill your own faction players, but you have to deal with consequences. Its treated like a murder in real life is if you kill your own people. Start going ax crazy and you will be hunted down both by npcs, npc bountyhunters, players and everything else in the nation and then you will end up in court... Still not stopping? You kill enough of folks and you will be thrown into "criminals/pirates" faction, which pretty much forces you to live in the pure-ffa zones where your nation's rules do not apply and that has all the disadvantages of real life problems murderers on the run have. Trying to live in "orderly" places like your nation or allied nations or any nation will get you more problems than you can manage then. However it IS a viable way to play if you enjoy running around with scissors on ice in real life...
Basically its an expanded version of eve's pvp ruleset with more advanced political system.
All those rules go out of the window in the third continent(think of it as EXTREME version of nullsec, while ocean is an actual nullsec) which is all about territory control, player-built cities, castles, villages, war and all the bloody pvp hijinks that guarantees.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY # ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED # A MASKED CRY ADORING # A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
FFA PvP is a design crutch used by unimaginative developers who can't create new, innovative ideas and instead fall back on 10+ year old game mechanics.
Exactly like "theme park" MMO devs who are unimaginative enough to restrict "factions" to two-sided wars.
Political / alignment / moral systems in MMOs have always been a joke because they have always been so very heavily skewed in favor of the PK/pirate/evil characters.
Choosing to "break the rules" and go against the game's society and political power structure should be a choice that brings with it HEAVY, and I mean HEAVY consequence.
PK/pirate/evil characters in MMOs have always had things so easy, much easier then the idealist / altruistic players who don't want to be assholes - to actually have some honor and respect for their fellow player.
Hence, the bad out weigh and out number the good in EVERY single FFA PvP MMO in all of MMO gaming history.
As such, FFA PvP will always = niche fail game unless someone wises up, evolves the static 10+ year old archaic design, and is innovative enough to create a truely dynamic, properly balanced system.
No, I hate not being able to attack people when they deserve it.
That sounds really childish. Maybe that's the reason ffa-pvp is not attracting so many mmorpg-players, as they tend to be a little more adult and social ;-)
Originally posted by Clywd Originally posted by Teh_Axi No, I hate not being able to attack people when they deserve it.
That sounds really childish. Maybe that's the reason ffa-pvp is not attracting so many mmorpg-players, as they tend to be a little more adult and social ;-)
Then please explain me on why oh why EVE has a way better player community and society than your generic run of the mill fvf mmos like WoW(where community is non-existant)?
The question is not about "omg its bad" its about the implementation of it. Darkfall and MO just pretty much slapped ffa pvp on everything else without a thought.
For FFA to work, players need to have an incentive to DO the RIGHT thing. Death and murder needs to be equally treated. Ever remember 45 people running after you in L2, trying to off you because of what you did? I do.
In EVE murdering someone's ship means A LOT and has a LOT of consequences from player side of things . In turn you actually care about your own life, and you actually think twice before blowing up some random guy to bits. As a result you have a very real-life like population - betrayals, alliances, friendships and so on.
FVF in this sense is LIMITING the potential. You are either "friend" or enemy, no matter on your actions, thus the sense of safety the sense of that stupid stupid "i do what I want" attracts the child crowd that degrades the population and makes the actual faction pvp THAT MUCH grief-full(after all if you spent last 5545 levels as jerk without consequences, you will be even bigger jerk when being able to hurt others).
Hence why systems need to be thought out(like it is with EVE and Archeage) and not just slapped on(like darkfall or mo did).
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY # ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED # A MASKED CRY ADORING # A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
No, I hate not being able to attack people when they deserve it.
That sounds really childish. Maybe that's the reason ffa-pvp is not attracting so many mmorpg-players, as they tend to be a little more adult and social ;-)
Yeah because stealing quest items from other players after they have done all the work getting to them, insulting and griefing people because they know they are safe due to some predermined faction or just being an ass because its a video game is really mature and social.
Theres nothing childish about my statement, in the real world when adults do something wrong they face the consquences for those actions. My advice would be think before you make stupid statments, its a lesson that will serve you well once you've grown up.
Why does it matter? It's going to be a level/gear grind game, and the top powergamers are going to dominate. The rest will start dropping off as they see they can't keep up with them.
In a FvF game, you can feel like you're on the same side as those top powergamers, working together, helping eachother defeat the common enemy, etc. Instead of hopelessly competing against them.
Maybe, but I think it's more likely that people will get tired of being killed whether their side wins or not. But it's hard to say for sure yet.
Question, how much will it matter for your side to win? Is there a lot about what you win that helps your community? It would have to overcome the player's feeling that they are always nothing more than dogmeat. And that's where you lose me (in this discussion, I might try the game anyways).
Edit to add: When UO added an item grind it killed the PvP, exactly because of this. And while you can say that it's only in part of the game world, all players will expect to be able to play in that part too.
No, I hate not being able to attack people when they deserve it.
That sounds really childish. Maybe that's the reason ffa-pvp is not attracting so many mmorpg-players, as they tend to be a little more adult and social ;-)
Yeah because stealing quest items from other players after they have done all the work getting to them, insulting and griefing people because they know they are safe due to some predermined faction or just being an ass because its a video game is really mature and social.
Theres nothing childish about my statement, in the real world when adults do something wrong they face the consquences for those actions. My advice would be think before you make stupid statments, its a lesson that will serve you well once you've grown up.
Dude... wtf???
Sorry, but griefing is annoying, as well is killing other people just because you feel to do so. You want to play police and judge? Just because you gained three more skill points? Come on, do you really call that adult???
No, I hate not being able to attack people when they deserve it.
That sounds really childish. Maybe that's the reason ffa-pvp is not attracting so many mmorpg-players, as they tend to be a little more adult and social ;-)
Then please explain me on why oh why EVE has a way better player community and society than your generic run of the mill fvf mmos like WoW(where community is non-existant)?
Because eve has a lot very social aspects, politics and crafting, player driven economics etc. PvP for sure is not creating a good community. If you want to experience a great community, join a small pve game, like Horizons or Ryzom - and avoid everything with a pvp tag...
Originally posted by Clywd Originally posted by Yuui
Originally posted by Clywd
Originally posted by Teh_Axi No, I hate not being able to attack people when they deserve it.
That sounds really childish. Maybe that's the reason ffa-pvp is not attracting so many mmorpg-players, as they tend to be a little more adult and social ;-)
Then please explain me on why oh why EVE has a way better player community and society than your generic run of the mill fvf mmos like WoW(where community is non-existant)? Because eve has a lot very social aspects, politics and crafting, player driven economics etc. PvP for sure is not creating a good community. If you want to experience a great community, join a small pve game, like Horizons or Ryzom - and avoid everything with a pvp tag... (btw, i never played wow)
Hence why pvp has nothing to do with quality of the community, the game design does
Thus the usual argument that "Baah, just because in this game anyone is capable of killing anyone, there will be no community" seen in this thread couple of times is completely unfitting.
From what I can remember from EVE, people there used to actually look at death and pk as something quite serious, risky and dangerous, would take precautions and so on.
Games like Darkfall or Mortal Online just slapped pvp on top of incompetent game design and expected it to work. ffa alone does not impact the community or game quality that much , the game design does.
As for wow community...( i can only say 2 years ago) - imagine every worst possible kind of person, a couple dozens of gold farmers and a couple of dozens of strange people who express their thoughts by spamming them multiple times in chat in a level of bastardization of english language that can be defined only as "incomprehensible". And from what I heard it got worse.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY # ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED # A MASKED CRY ADORING # A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
Comments
For those who are still not getting the flaw that was made by the OP....
ArcheAge will have both: FFA and FvF!
You don't need to decide between the two, you can have them both at the same time, you just need to go to the appropriate places depending on what you prefer.
Additionally ArcheAge will have alot of PvE-content in rather safe areas, as there's NPC-guards running around on the two faction-continents, and because there's harsh penalties for killing people of your own faction on those two continents aswell. Only the third continent, where there's territorial warfare is 100% FFA PvP governed by the players themselves.
And for those thinking that this doesn't work... It works in EvE Online for years now.
I feel like we already discussed this in the AA forum, but I'll go ahead and say what I said before.
I have one major reason why I don't like faction style PvP. It limits you from choosing the classes, races, and starting areas you want to use and it forces you to pick one that your friends are going to pick. Like when I played DAoC, I wanted Midgard, one of my buddies wanted Albion, but two wanted hibernia so we were stuck with hibernia even though we didn't want to be there. Then when my friends convinced me to try WoW I wanted to be a alliance but they were all horde so I couldn't and i had to pick a race that I hated the look of.
With FFA games I can be anything available in the world and not be mortal enemies of my friends characters. We can join any guild together no matter what our race is and fight against people we don't like. Yes you have to watch your back when roaming around solo, but that adds to the danger factor that some games don't have.
On a side note you have to have something in place to discourage rampant ganking from high levels fighting low levels in FFA games. Nobody wants to get killed 12 times in 30 mins when they are level 5 by a level 50. So something has to be in place to make those jerks think twice about it. But at the same time be able to kill that obnoxious level 5 that's spamming the general chat with nonsense.
The cool things is XLgames has already said they plan on implenting both so I don't know why everyone assumes this game is going to be FFA, read up on the game folks, you likely enjoy what you find.
Suicide ganking, wardec griefing, can flipping, spying alts and everybody's favorite - low-sec just to mention a few. Hell yeah, EVE FFA works great!!!
Sorry, but people pointing towards EVE as being the stellar example of FFA working great just makes me laugh.
Sure, it's the best out there of those that I've tried, it does add depth and has its own unique charm that I personally like, but the EVE FFA system is riddled with its own problems and isn't IMHO a terribly great example of FFA done right.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Incognito
www.incognito-gaming.us
"You're either with us or against us"
I hear where you are coming from, but it just sounds silly to have consequences for PKing someone in a PvP game. You are supposed to kill people. You have to get good at PvP by killing people. One of the attractions of FFA is that you can kill anyone anywhere. Once you start putting restrictions and consequences, you might as well have static factions, in my opinion.
The irony for me is, in a FFA PvP environment, I'm less likely to actually engage in combat with other players. I'm not the kind of person that just goes around randomly killing players. I know it might ruin their day and that is a turn off to me, whereas in a faction game, if we are at war, then you deserve to die. On the flip-side of the coin, it's more difficult for me to make friends in a FFA environment. I don't trust other players and tend to avoid them entirely. In a faction game, I know who my enemies are, and I can go and "practice" at will, without worrying about consequences.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
No, I hate not being able to attack people when they deserve it.
I think it should have both kinds of servers, that should make most people happy.
It is really not that much work to have both server types, it is not like making a PvE server or something.
Just not worth my time anymore.
You can still attack anyone wherever you want... you just have to deal with the consequences.
If you don't want to deal with consequences for mindless gannking however, then you're looking for the wrong game.
Agreed. Even if the most lawless areas during any period have there always been consequences for going around and killing random people, at least in the long run.
I would actually like a game with a system that allowed players to police other players instead of npcs. Groups of knights riding around and keeping the order (with good rewards for all criminals they kill or arrest) would make an awesome game, add realism and solve the problem.
I agree. Everquest had PvE servers, a FFA PvP server and two Team PvP servers back in the day.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I am a direhardcore FFA PvP fan, but I can accept FvF if done right (persistant open world pvp with meanin (ie territorial controll, structures to gain and loose--perhaps live in them like a clan city and be able to have them taken away--in the persistant world, things to fight fotr in general) as long as it isnt JUST TWO FACTIONS. There has to be atleast 3. Tere is no way I would let such a great MMO title ruin its self with the classic 'Good vs Evil' crap.
Carebears don't whine about griefers. Not every one is a griefer, just that random asshoold. Most of the PvP crowd are actually against them too. Dickheads will be dickheads. Just gotta deal with it and try to use some game mechanics for their disadvantage right back at em, or move on.
Just me $.02
In a FvF game, you can feel like you're on the same side as those top powergamers, working together, helping eachother defeat the common enemy, etc. Instead of hopelessly competing against them.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I can completely relate to that. In EVE, I've never opened fire on anyone just because it's an option and I just can't see myself actually ganking someone in EVE just for fun. Well, unless it's a bot that is hehe. Furthermore, I find myself limiting my interaction with other people because I just don't trust anyone. In WoW on the other hand, I'm usually one of the first to jump at the opportunity to join my fellow horde members in an attack on the alliance if a world PvP event is forming and if a low level alliance player happens to be in the way, I've more than once turned him/her into pink mist with my fishing pole for the added entertainment value. But I figure that's okay since I expect the alliance to treat me the same way. To me, FFA PvP tends to make things a bit too personal, whereas factional warfare feels more like us competing versus them.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Join a nullsec corp/alliance in EvE and suddenly FFA PvP is exactly the same like FvF. You have plenty of hostile and friendly flagged players and know exactly whom to shoot at this way.
What I do absolutely dislike about FvF in the traditional way is, that there's no politics involved there... no social engineering needed at all etc. no real reason to fight against the other side.
In a game with FFA PvP, territorial warfare and ressource-control tho, there's a reason to fight suddenly and in much more depth aswell.
Competition is only fun, where there's good rewards for the winners and tears for the loosers. When it's only about the fun fights, then I can play tactical shooters without a monthly fee and I don't need a persistent world for that aswell.
The problem most people have with FFA PvP is, that they ultimately think about ganking other players without a reason, which is a totally wrong mindset, if theres consequences for mindlessly ganking other players.
You think twice before you engage someone, if this results in the loss of access to PvE-content needed to maintain your character.
So many misconceptions that it hurts.
This game has BOTH systems in play.
In terms of faction pvp, game starts out with two factions, with them capable of splitting as well as player nations and etc, so this can be 1factionvs1 or 2vs2 or 24782572vs527452.
But that does notlimit FFA. You can still kill your own faction players, but you have to deal with consequences. Its treated like a murder in real life is if you kill your own people. Start going ax crazy and you will be hunted down both by npcs, npc bountyhunters, players and everything else in the nation and then you will end up in court... Still not stopping? You kill enough of folks and you will be thrown into "criminals/pirates" faction, which pretty much forces you to live in the pure-ffa zones where your nation's rules do not apply and that has all the disadvantages of real life problems murderers on the run have. Trying to live in "orderly" places like your nation or allied nations or any nation will get you more problems than you can manage then. However it IS a viable way to play if you enjoy running around with scissors on ice in real life...
Basically its an expanded version of eve's pvp ruleset with more advanced political system.
All those rules go out of the window in the third continent(think of it as EXTREME version of nullsec, while ocean is an actual nullsec) which is all about territory control, player-built cities, castles, villages, war and all the bloody pvp hijinks that guarantees.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
I have always disliked the forced "kill the red" faction motivation.
Coming from a heavy Lineage 2 background, I like the posibility to kill the guy next to me, if he pisses me off.
That sounds really childish. Maybe that's the reason ffa-pvp is not attracting so many mmorpg-players, as they tend to be a little more adult and social ;-)
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
Then please explain me on why oh why EVE has a way better player community and society than your generic run of the mill fvf mmos like WoW(where community is non-existant)?
The question is not about "omg its bad" its about the implementation of it. Darkfall and MO just pretty much slapped ffa pvp on everything else without a thought.
For FFA to work, players need to have an incentive to DO the RIGHT thing. Death and murder needs to be equally treated.
Ever remember 45 people running after you in L2, trying to off you because of what you did? I do.
In EVE murdering someone's ship means A LOT and has a LOT of consequences from player side of things . In turn you actually care about your own life, and you actually think twice before blowing up some random guy to bits. As a result you have a very real-life like population - betrayals, alliances, friendships and so on.
FVF in this sense is LIMITING the potential. You are either "friend" or enemy, no matter on your actions, thus the sense of safety the sense of that stupid stupid "i do what I want" attracts the child crowd that degrades the population and makes the actual faction pvp THAT MUCH grief-full(after all if you spent last 5545 levels as jerk without consequences, you will be even bigger jerk when being able to hurt others).
Hence why systems need to be thought out(like it is with EVE and Archeage) and not just slapped on(like darkfall or mo did).
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON
Yeah because stealing quest items from other players after they have done all the work getting to them, insulting and griefing people because they know they are safe due to some predermined faction or just being an ass because its a video game is really mature and social.
Theres nothing childish about my statement, in the real world when adults do something wrong they face the consquences for those actions. My advice would be think before you make stupid statments, its a lesson that will serve you well once you've grown up.
Maybe, but I think it's more likely that people will get tired of being killed whether their side wins or not. But it's hard to say for sure yet.
Question, how much will it matter for your side to win? Is there a lot about what you win that helps your community? It would have to overcome the player's feeling that they are always nothing more than dogmeat. And that's where you lose me (in this discussion, I might try the game anyways).
Edit to add: When UO added an item grind it killed the PvP, exactly because of this. And while you can say that it's only in part of the game world, all players will expect to be able to play in that part too.
Once upon a time....
Dude... wtf???
Sorry, but griefing is annoying, as well is killing other people just because you feel to do so. You want to play police and judge? Just because you gained three more skill points? Come on, do you really call that adult???
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
Because eve has a lot very social aspects, politics and crafting, player driven economics etc. PvP for sure is not creating a good community. If you want to experience a great community, join a small pve game, like Horizons or Ryzom - and avoid everything with a pvp tag...
(btw, i never played wow)
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
That sounds really childish. Maybe that's the reason ffa-pvp is not attracting so many mmorpg-players, as they tend to be a little more adult and social ;-)
Then please explain me on why oh why EVE has a way better player community and society than your generic run of the mill fvf mmos like WoW(where community is non-existant)?
Because eve has a lot very social aspects, politics and crafting, player driven economics etc. PvP for sure is not creating a good community. If you want to experience a great community, join a small pve game, like Horizons or Ryzom - and avoid everything with a pvp tag...
(btw, i never played wow)
Hence why pvp has nothing to do with quality of the community, the game design does
Thus the usual argument that "Baah, just because in this game anyone is capable of killing anyone, there will be no community" seen in this thread couple of times is completely unfitting.
From what I can remember from EVE, people there used to actually look at death and pk as something quite serious, risky and dangerous, would take precautions and so on.
Games like Darkfall or Mortal Online just slapped pvp on top of incompetent game design and expected it to work. ffa alone does not impact the community or game quality that much , the game design does.
As for wow community...( i can only say 2 years ago) - imagine every worst possible kind of person, a couple dozens of gold farmers and a couple of dozens of strange people who express their thoughts by spamming them multiple times in chat in a level of bastardization of english language that can be defined only as "incomprehensible". And from what I heard it got worse.
# A GRIM, ODD, ARCANE SKY
# ANY GOD, I MARK SACRED
# A MASKED CRY ADORING
# A DREAMY, SICK DRAGON