Sorry, but griefing is annoying, as well is killing other people just because you feel to do so. You want to play police and judge? Just because you gained three more skill points? Come on, do you really call that adult???
Wow, you totally missed the point. I mean like, it never came close to penetrating that bubble you live in.
Bottom line is I'm not the type of person that wants to just stick my head in the sand, especially in a video game.
Faction systems are boring... see red, kill red *snore*.
Give me back guild politics, rivalries, and consequences for ones actions.
That's the thing I miss about Asherons Call. Small tight nit Anti-PK guilds who constantly worked together could take a much higher level, and greater numbered force and win. And then we would have wars over towns and other leveling spots, and guilds would form alliances and tactics to take over control.
Modern day MMO's with system forced alliances are so limited and boring.
I sure hope the game went a bit further than this ffa vs faction debate, that is just too old. This debate don't exist anymore, all pvp game will have both and in the same server, and they will also have pve only zones. I don't see the problem really, its 2010 guys, this debate is well behind us. Its no more pvp vs pve game, and ffa vs faction games. Any new mmo, sandbox, themepark or whatever will have all those aspects, especially korean mmos. They don't have the pve vs pvp syndrom if you didn't know. All of their games are pvp as much as pve games.
Also faction is nothing more than hard coded guilds with a lore attached to it. I don't see the problem, not all faction is a choice you have to make at character creation. You can access or choose to not access faction once in game. They are a lot of ways to make faction. Faction is not all about races.
You have to put faction in your pvp game for the poeple that don't want to bother about why and how and who they want to kill. Faction is like fps kind of pvp, you go kill those guys that are against you and that's it, no need to make a fuzz about it. Faction is nothing more that a state of war you might or might not want to part of, thats it.
Now even if AA is mainly a ffa game, i think it would be stupid to not let people have pve only zones if they want to. I also prefer ffa games, but sometime i just want to have a brainless pve session too. I really don't see the problem.
Should Archeage have gone with Faction vs Faction rather than FFA for controlling PvP?
Archeage seems to me, to be more of a Sandbox/TP hybrid the more I look into it. That seems like a good idea. But once again, like every other Sandbox MMO, the developers choose to have FFA PvP rather than DAoC Factions system.
for once I would like to see a Sandbox, or Hybrid(S/TP) that uses Factions instead of FFA. Especially when there are harsh DP that can easily be exploited and abused.
The feeling of Faction pride is one of the greatest feelings in a PvP game settings.
FFA usually turns into a Guild Battle, which usually run people into the bigger guilds rather than smaller mid size guilds.
Some people say that Factions are a restriction and that restrictions dont fit into the meaning of a Sandbox MMO. yes that may be true, but Archeage already has many TB restrictions in it as it is. Which IMO, is why it could be one of the most successful Sandbox MMO on the market if done right. So why not add some TP elements to the PvP as well.
Most Sandbox MMO get turned into PvP games because of the FFA/HDP. Well lets do away with that this time, and add some DAoC PvP elements to future sandbox mmo?
I know PvE focused mmo dont do well, but nether does PvP focus MMO (which is something that most Sandbox MMO turn into).
There need to be a balance of the two. and FFA just makes it nearly impossible to develop PvP elements for the long run.
Both!
XLGames can institute factions within a seperate servers. Doing so, would be rather simple. So expect a few rule-set servers.
Roleplaying Faction server anyone..?
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
IMO forced factions is yet another restrction / hindrace. In a sandbox world I should be able to choose who I am allied with, and who my enemies are. Give me meaningful, personal PVP over mindless 'red = dead' garbage anyday.
With that said, AA IS primarily a faction game, but with a (welcome) twist:
"There will be various factions, but when creating a character in the very beginning of the game you will ally yourself to one of two factions which are hostile to each other. However, later on, players can either continue their activities within the same faction or create their own faction. And although it may take some time and effort, players will be able to change the side while playing."
Expeditionary forces can conquer territories and engage in war. Whether an expeditionary force is an enemy or alliance depends on how the relationship is built between them.
It is not final yet, but we plan to have different types of servers. For example, there will be a PvP server where you can even PK characters of your own faction or alliance and a separate server where you can only PK those of the opposing sides.
There is no penalty for PvP between different guilds or groups (there may be certain rewards in some cases). But there will be strict penalties for PvP between groups within the same faction (e.g. going to jail for a certain time, being expelled from the faction and becoming a pirate faction if continuously repeated). A pirate faction can be an enemy of all factions.
FFA PvP is a design crutch used by unimaginative developers who can't create new, innovative ideas and instead fall back on 10+ year old game mechanics.
Exactly like "theme park" MMO devs who are unimaginative enough to restrict "factions" to two-sided wars.
Political / alignment / moral systems in MMOs have always been a joke because they have always been so very heavily skewed in favor of the PK/pirate/evil characters.
Choosing to "break the rules" and go against the game's society and political power structure should be a choice that brings with it HEAVY, and I mean HEAVY consequence.
PK/pirate/evil characters in MMOs have always had things so easy, much easier then the idealist / altruistic players who don't want to be assholes - to actually have some honor and respect for their fellow player.
Hence, the bad out weigh and out number the good in EVERY single FFA PvP MMO in all of MMO gaming history.
As such, FFA PvP will always = niche fail game unless someone wises up, evolves the static 10+ year old archaic design, and is innovative enough to create a truely dynamic, properly balanced system.
Or...
Just simply make it harder to be a PK? How is FFA PvP a design crutch? Sandbox games are supposed to be about variety. Why can't a FFA PvP game have factions? You don't have to join them, but you get benefits if you do. Why can't you backstab the same faction members? You explained this throughout your entire post. The game is skewed to be biased towards players who want to be evil. Make it hard, that's the easy solution.
Your character is killed and your head is cut off and the head returned to the city garrison? Your character takes perminent skill point loss. Your character is knocked out and your body taken to jail before your friends can stop your attacker? You are put in jail for hours equal to your murder count. Murderers cannot enter towns or use any services of a city in good standing. Murderers can only be resurrected by criminals or other murderers and it adds a murder count to the priest who does so. It makes criminals murderers by doing so. Murder counts should take 8 hours of gametime to work off. You cannot buy murder count reduction in any way. There should only be one evil aligned city and it should be attackable by any and all who wish to do so. It should have only very basic services and zero protection. If for some reason it is not a full loot system, murderers can be looted. The only way a murderer can survive is with the backing of a guild or they have their own house to hide in. Murderer characters take much longer to log out than Innocent characters.
it's my opinion that it should be very difficult to surive with that lifestyle, but possible if you take extreme caution and only roll in large groups. All you'll see is zergs or rogue type players when you see a murderer. Chances are due to it being so difficult under a system like this, there will be only one or two murderer factions. They will be large, and they will play out more like criminal organizations. 95% of players will be either innocent or opportunistic criminals who manage their murder counts so they do not go 'red'.
I can tell just by the posts in two of these threads that, without heavy penalties for antisocial behavior, this game will be a gank-squad infested yawn-fest two weeks after launch and a barren joke of a wasteland two weeks after that, with all the adrenaline-pumped, hypersocial pkers last out the door, moving swiftly on to the next MMO hopeful on the heels of the fleeing pve herd they live to prey on.
End result: the pve crowd will cry foul because they bought the game after being lured in by the hope of avoiding constantly being ganked due to the continents system. Meanwhile, the gankers will blame minor bugs, the timing of release, poor customer service, outdated graphics, the UI, and everyone and everything else except themselves for the sudden mass departure of the majority of players only weeks after launch.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
Comments
Wow, you totally missed the point. I mean like, it never came close to penetrating that bubble you live in.
Bottom line is I'm not the type of person that wants to just stick my head in the sand, especially in a video game.
FFA all the way baby.
Faction systems are boring... see red, kill red *snore*.
Give me back guild politics, rivalries, and consequences for ones actions.
That's the thing I miss about Asherons Call. Small tight nit Anti-PK guilds who constantly worked together could take a much higher level, and greater numbered force and win. And then we would have wars over towns and other leveling spots, and guilds would form alliances and tactics to take over control.
Modern day MMO's with system forced alliances are so limited and boring.
I sure hope the game went a bit further than this ffa vs faction debate, that is just too old. This debate don't exist anymore, all pvp game will have both and in the same server, and they will also have pve only zones. I don't see the problem really, its 2010 guys, this debate is well behind us. Its no more pvp vs pve game, and ffa vs faction games. Any new mmo, sandbox, themepark or whatever will have all those aspects, especially korean mmos. They don't have the pve vs pvp syndrom if you didn't know. All of their games are pvp as much as pve games.
Also faction is nothing more than hard coded guilds with a lore attached to it. I don't see the problem, not all faction is a choice you have to make at character creation. You can access or choose to not access faction once in game. They are a lot of ways to make faction. Faction is not all about races.
You have to put faction in your pvp game for the poeple that don't want to bother about why and how and who they want to kill. Faction is like fps kind of pvp, you go kill those guys that are against you and that's it, no need to make a fuzz about it. Faction is nothing more that a state of war you might or might not want to part of, thats it.
Now even if AA is mainly a ffa game, i think it would be stupid to not let people have pve only zones if they want to. I also prefer ffa games, but sometime i just want to have a brainless pve session too. I really don't see the problem.
NO FVSF is boring crap if u wish faction based mmorpgs u can play one of the millions of factions games around.
Both!
XLGames can institute factions within a seperate servers. Doing so, would be rather simple. So expect a few rule-set servers.
Roleplaying Faction server anyone..?
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
IMO forced factions is yet another restrction / hindrace. In a sandbox world I should be able to choose who I am allied with, and who my enemies are. Give me meaningful, personal PVP over mindless 'red = dead' garbage anyday.
With that said, AA IS primarily a faction game, but with a (welcome) twist:
http://archeage-online.com/post/1718108615
"There will be various factions, but when creating a character in the very beginning of the game you will ally yourself to one of two factions which are hostile to each other. However, later on, players can either continue their activities within the same faction or create their own faction. And although it may take some time and effort, players will be able to change the side while playing."
Expeditionary forces can conquer territories and engage in war. Whether an expeditionary force is an enemy or alliance depends on how the relationship is built between them.
It is not final yet, but we plan to have different types of servers. For example, there will be a PvP server where you can even PK characters of your own faction or alliance and a separate server where you can only PK those of the opposing sides.
There is no penalty for PvP between different guilds or groups (there may be certain rewards in some cases). But there will be strict penalties for PvP between groups within the same faction (e.g. going to jail for a certain time, being expelled from the faction and becoming a pirate faction if continuously repeated). A pirate faction can be an enemy of all factions.
Or...
Just simply make it harder to be a PK? How is FFA PvP a design crutch? Sandbox games are supposed to be about variety. Why can't a FFA PvP game have factions? You don't have to join them, but you get benefits if you do. Why can't you backstab the same faction members? You explained this throughout your entire post. The game is skewed to be biased towards players who want to be evil. Make it hard, that's the easy solution.
Your character is killed and your head is cut off and the head returned to the city garrison? Your character takes perminent skill point loss. Your character is knocked out and your body taken to jail before your friends can stop your attacker? You are put in jail for hours equal to your murder count. Murderers cannot enter towns or use any services of a city in good standing. Murderers can only be resurrected by criminals or other murderers and it adds a murder count to the priest who does so. It makes criminals murderers by doing so. Murder counts should take 8 hours of gametime to work off. You cannot buy murder count reduction in any way. There should only be one evil aligned city and it should be attackable by any and all who wish to do so. It should have only very basic services and zero protection. If for some reason it is not a full loot system, murderers can be looted. The only way a murderer can survive is with the backing of a guild or they have their own house to hide in. Murderer characters take much longer to log out than Innocent characters.
it's my opinion that it should be very difficult to surive with that lifestyle, but possible if you take extreme caution and only roll in large groups. All you'll see is zergs or rogue type players when you see a murderer. Chances are due to it being so difficult under a system like this, there will be only one or two murderer factions. They will be large, and they will play out more like criminal organizations. 95% of players will be either innocent or opportunistic criminals who manage their murder counts so they do not go 'red'.
Just my opinion.
I can tell just by the posts in two of these threads that, without heavy penalties for antisocial behavior, this game will be a gank-squad infested yawn-fest two weeks after launch and a barren joke of a wasteland two weeks after that, with all the adrenaline-pumped, hypersocial pkers last out the door, moving swiftly on to the next MMO hopeful on the heels of the fleeing pve herd they live to prey on.
End result: the pve crowd will cry foul because they bought the game after being lured in by the hope of avoiding constantly being ganked due to the continents system. Meanwhile, the gankers will blame minor bugs, the timing of release, poor customer service, outdated graphics, the UI, and everyone and everything else except themselves for the sudden mass departure of the majority of players only weeks after launch.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein