Well I'll start simple. The number 1 reason any mmo fails has to be because it doesn't run well on the majority of computers out there. Nothing cuts more into your potential subscriber base than this. People don't even get to tolerate the situation to see if they even like your gameplay. Look at all the most popular mmorpgs from mmorpg genre day 1, they all ran well on the majority of computers at that time.
Misleading headline @ OP, eh? I thought you would give us a reason why MMOs might be better on consoles. No, no - okay
But yes, I agree.
It's simply because new ideas are more critical to get money for. If you release a product which has a certain value because a similar game-mechanic was once popular (look at all the retarded clones, even wow cloned, but somehow made it right and got famous) then you lay down your numbers of how many subs your game gets and you get your cash, easy as that.
But new ideas? Investors go like: "wohooo easy - do you have aaaaaanyyyyyyy idea if that could possibly work? and IF NOT then WHAT? All money gone? nononnnooonoooo stick with a regular "sandbox"-system or no moneh!"
'Nuff said.
And I hope Publishers remember in the next years why Games were created once: Not only to dully entertain, more to let oneself drift away in another universe, forget your messy/stressful life on earth and most important lets you get new ideas and be more creative!!
Grow balls, Publishers. Get guts to produce unique stuff again! Even lower budget titles can grow something very big if the IDEA IS GENUINE!
1)I don't really think PC MMOs have failed at all. They just shifted priorities.
2)Developing an mmorpg has become so expensive that few investors are willing to take risks for new ideas, hence the homogeneity of what is out there right now. WoW's success has also sparked this mindset that if they create a cheap knockoff brand of it, people will play. It hasn't worked out too well so far.
3)Game development in general have shifted towards more consoles. Publishers like to pretend that it's due to piracy. But the real reason in my opinion is that console players are more gullible, casual, and easier to cater to. Developing games for consoles is also easier and cheaper.
4)"Social" "games", aka facebook flash games are easier to develop and rake in more cash. Low risk, high yield. Hence why many high profile devs have hopped abroad that bandwagon.
5)Actual MMORPG players aren't really vying for anything new at the moment.
Failed to do what? Deliver what a few of the originals did? Yes... Make money? No...
Everquest was my first game. I'll always find that game near flawless (before Luclin and more so PoP). SWG was another classic before NGE. I've ran through so many MMO's I can't remember half of them. Only a few have left lasting memories. Now I'm sure I can think of more than just 5, but I'll pick the best ones.
1. LEVELING - This is the number one reason for me. Leveling now is too damn fast. I remember being excited to get to level 8 and get my new spells in EQ! Now getting to level 15+ in a few hours is next to nothing. What the genre has done now is made the game to be played and enjoyed at the end... Not the beginning or middle... But the end. Whatever happened to it's the journey that counts? I feel the leveling should be a lot slower, but with the same amount of content and things to do that the end game gives at all levels. I never made it past 35 in the original EQ because I kept rerolling into new classes and races to try out different areas.
2. GROUPING - This is another big one. I don't believe we should be forced to group, but it should be heavily emphasized. It's not called a Massively Singleplayer Online Roleplaying Game is it? The whole point of multiplayer gaming is to game with others. It's not always going to be feasible, and that's why soloing should still be an option. I just feel being able to solo your way to the end of multiplayer games defeats the purpose of them.
3. TRAVEL - One of my pet peeves. This whole instant travel we have in games now is garbage. I'll use EQ again as an example. You had to run, take a boat, and run some more before you could reach several places. When you got there, it meant something! Being one of few Humans among Elves or vice versa. It made the world that much more immersive because it took time to get to places. We still had players able to port you, but this also added to the social aspect of the game, something that is seriously lacking nowadays.
4. VARIETY - I like feeling unique, special in a game. Having a plethora of races and classes I thought was perfect. Now it seems we only get a very few, and the only oppurtunities we have to feel unique is by using AA points or something similar. This also goes hand in hand with starting areas. Most games nowadays if you reroll it's going to be the same thing. Back then you could reroll so many times without seeing the same stuff.
5. SOCIALIZING - This kind of ties all the others together. I'm not just talking RP, but meeting people and making friends along your journey. Downtime was essential because it allowed others to conversate and strike up new friendships. I thought SWG did this well with the cantinas. Now it just feels a lot of the time I'm playing a single player game and I don't think it should feel like that.
Maybe I'm just an old time gamer wishing things will go back to the way they were... All I know now is what we have as far as "good" options are very slim. None hit all five of my marks and if one ever comes along that days you can bet I'll be all over it. I think these options would cater to both the casual and hardcore gamer.
From marketing strategy to gameplay design and just purely making fun games Blizzard wether you like them or not does it right.
If blizzard was "doing it right", then you, me and all the other people out here bitching would instead be happilly playing WoW - the "done right" game. As we aren't, i would venture say to say that no, Blizzard isn't doing it right.
Eh? I think numbers prove you wrong. While Blizzard may not be doing it right for YOU, they are most certainly doing it right for a huge number of others.
I really wonder why this topic comes up, over and over again. After reading forums here for the past 7 years, it's pretty obvious that your average MMORPG poster is definately NOT equal to your average MMO gamer. Frankly, any game launched with most of the ideas espoused on these boards would be at best, a niche game, and at worst, would make AoC/Warhammer look like resounding successes!
1. Graphics - You need a top of the line computer built within the last 2-3 years to play the next MMO to come out, and that is not only at high specs. MMO's need to target graphic limitations more suitable to the lower end of computers. This would make loading screens faster and allow for the development team to work on gameplay features, rather than strive to create the best looking graphics on the market. It would be great if these limited graphics could be used to their fullest potential, by making them stylish. I like the style of Lineage 2, anything that or better is fine with me and L2 came out 7 years ago.
2. Social Gaming - I rarely talk to anyone while gaming these days. People pass by you without a word. Many people claim this is the fault of the players themselves but that is far from true. Games can implement tasks that require group interaction, if a player doesn't want to commit to a group and display teamwork then they can go play a single player game.
3. Progress - There has been a common word for this, grind. Grind isn't really so bad, it dictates the speed you go through content however it would be nice to have multiple paths on how to get there. Most MMO's just have you grind quest chain after quest chain. Having multiple options for grinding experience in games is always a plus.
4. Lag - Most games have server stability issues on release. These issues need to be addressed and fixed before any game goes P2P.
5. Unfinished Content - No one wants a game without the features mentioned. An example of this is Lineage 2 claimed they would have Capes and they were on the box art. It took 6 years for the game to implement it, as well Castle Sieges were the main attraction of PvP in the game and it wasn't available until a month after release.
I'd list 5, but take most posters 5 and I'd just +1 it. I'd have to say that I believe the market is somewhat turning around, but SWTOR, GW2, TERA and Archeage will confirm that belief.
You all have good points. But , I said in a previous topic....Stop saying MMO's have failed on PC. They have not. Look at damn WoW , I know alot of haters of it on here, but look at it. It's got a 12 million player base. Tell me how thats a fail?
Most MMO's are in the high tens of thousands , some in pre-millions player base numbers. Even look at Runescape.
I have no idea why people keep saying that they are failures, they are not.
What do you want, a damn player base of a billion. It's impossible.
Yes alot of MMO's are made and fail, so what, as is life.
Things are meant to be created, to be destined or doomed.
So I don't understand, why you people make daily topics about failing and dying MMOS.
There will always be popular games, non-popular games, good games, suck-ass games.
Blizzard owns the mmo genre because there are probably the only ones who take the time to do it right. From marketing strategy to gameplay design and just purely making fun games Blizzard wether you like them or not does it right.
1. Complexity of the PC - From windows itself it is very hard to get a mmo wto work correctly with windows. You also have the complexity of the hardware where memory and video card issues are always a tough task at hand. Networking issues are probably one of the biggest reason why devs can't nail down the lag issue.
2. It is a copycat league - Since Everquest launch I thnk I played Everquest 10 times over and then some. There absolutely no creativity whatever right now.
3. MMO saturation - The mmo market is overloaded with mmos. How can one possibly max profit when the market has so many mmos competing at the same time not to mention WoW holds a ton of subscribers as it is. Stop mass producing mmos and maybe try to attempt to get 1 mmo done the right way.
4. Social Aspect is gone - Just about every mmo created these days is build around a single player mentality. Back in the day it was about community and working together to accomplish goals.
5. Stop catering to casuals - Oh yes the big one. How can you ever make something viable and fun when you have to make dumbed down content where even a caveman so to speak can figure it out. All mmos are on easy mode because a puchase is more cherished than a communities fun and a genres long term success.
I say it is time to make something creative, fun and for god sakes please stop using 2002 technolgy.
How can you say that Blizz did it right then go into your list. Blizz caused everyone of those problems yet you say they did it right and that they are best thing since sliced bread (pretty much)?
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
You all have good points. But , I said in a previous topic....Stop saying MMO's have failed on PC. They have not. Look at damn WoW , I know alot of haters of it on here, but look at it. It's got a 12 million player base. Tell me how thats a fail?
Most MMO's are in the high tens of thousands , some in pre-millions player base numbers. Even look at Runescape.
I have no idea why people keep saying that they are failures, they are not.
What do you want, a damn player base of a billion. It's impossible.
Yes alot of MMO's are made and fail, so what, as is life.
Things are meant to be created, to be destined or doomed.
So I don't understand, why you people make daily topics about failing and dying MMOS.
There will always be popular games, non-popular games, good games, suck-ass games.
You all have good points. But , I said in a previous topic....Stop saying MMO's have failed on PC. They have not. Look at damn WoW , I know alot of haters of it on here, but look at it. It's got a 12 million player base. Tell me how thats a fail?
Most MMO's are in the high tens of thousands , some in pre-millions player base numbers. Even look at Runescape.
I have no idea why people keep saying that they are failures, they are not.
What do you want, a damn player base of a billion. It's impossible.
Yes alot of MMO's are made and fail, so what, as is life.
Things are meant to be created, to be destined or doomed.
So I don't understand, why you people make daily topics about failing and dying MMOS.
There will always be popular games, non-popular games, good games, suck-ass games.
Thats the gaming world. The rotation of life.
Someone said WoW failed? I could understand maybe a failing to please an individual but I don't think anyone means WoW failed in anyway that you are interpreting it.
You all have good points. But , I said in a previous topic....Stop saying MMO's have failed on PC. They have not. Look at damn WoW , I know alot of haters of it on here, but look at it. It's got a 12 million player base. Tell me how thats a fail?
Most MMO's are in the high tens of thousands , some in pre-millions player base numbers. Even look at Runescape.
I have no idea why people keep saying that they are failures, they are not.
What do you want, a damn player base of a billion. It's impossible.
Yes alot of MMO's are made and fail, so what, as is life.
Things are meant to be created, to be destined or doomed.
So I don't understand, why you people make daily topics about failing and dying MMOS.
There will always be popular games, non-popular games, good games, suck-ass games.
Thats the gaming world. The rotation of life.
WoW hasn't failed, something like shadowbane failed.
Exactly. Thats why I said WoW is a success.
I am just sick of people making topics only about fail MMOS or dying MMOS. What about all the ones still going strong?
Maybe it's not the MMOs that have failed. Maybe I've failed at MMOs. Maybe the way I used to play was better than the way I play now. I seem to have caught the concepts of progression, endgame, twinking, gear, optimal build, rotation, having better, and being better like diseases from my fellow players. And now I hop from game to game like a jaded little flea, just like my fellow players do, when before, I played one MMO for years and shrugged off the very idea of trying a new game, because I was perfectly happy with the one I had.
I played an MMO quite happily for years before I knew what dps stood for. I think my enjoyment and immersion took a sharp dip the day someone explained it to me.
I played an MMO quite happily for years, mostly soloing missions in AO or wandering around killing and being killed by various Rubi-Ka mobs, without ever conceiving of the notion that other players would expect certain things from me regarding my gear and how I had allocated my skill points when I did choose to team with them.
I played an MMO quite happily for years, rolling alts whenever it seemed like fun, never getting anywhere near max level and not caring if I ever did, or even stopping to wonder if I would or should someday.
I played an MMO quite happily for years without any goals for my character's 'progression' (a word I would never have applied to anything I did for fun anyway). My goals centered around the moment, or at most, that evening's slice of play time, and could always be summed up by, "What kind of fun do I want to have tonight?" And the answer might be anything from find a new painting for my apartment to go see if anyone is having a party in one of the clubs or in some cleared out mission somewhere to aimlessly kill whatever mobs I found that were killable out in the middle of some nowhere.
I played an MMO quite happily for years without joining any organized group of players. Since I had a crat for a good while, getting teams was always easy, and sometimes it was hard to get away from people when I felt like some quiet solo time.
I played an MMO quite happily for years without ever farming any gear. The only thing I ever farmed was startup funds whenever I took a break and then came back and started over on a new account (which I usually did, since I never had any really high level characters worth remembering my username and password for anyway). And even then, I wanted it, not to twink with, but mostly to buy a yalm, because half of my fun in AO was just aimlessly flying around, exploring.
I also played an MMO quite happily for years before an experience that taught me how good an idea it is to always be wary of people, especially people you meet online. No MMO community will ever again feel as non-threatening and innocent as my first MMO community did, and I suspect some of the standoffishness and solo-centric behavior a lot of players complain about in these forums is coming from people who have had experiences similar to mine. The gold farmer and account thief invasion certainly doesn't help this. Even if a player restricts her online interaction to the game, not branching out into vent or Instant Messenger or doing anything else that could lead to an invasion of privacy or worse, there is always the risk that your new MMO 'friend' or your friendly new guild is just trying to get in game currency or sellable gear from you to make real money for themselves. And even if their intentions do not go past game goals, a lot of the cross-game mega-guilds really do treat most of their members as lackeys, there to build up a power base within the game for the benefit of the core group.
Really, the first few years I played were the best, not because AO was the best, but because I not only was never in a position to be sneered at by some higher-dps-than-thou bully, but because I was never even aware that MMO players ever went about sneering at each other. Or stealing from each other (kills, accounts, or anything else), or ganking players much lower level than themselves, or treating each other like things instead of like human beings, or doing much of anything unpleasant at all.
I thought...well, I thought it was all fun and games when I first started playing.
Hm. Go figure. PC MMOs used to be all about fun and games for me.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
No, seriously price. I don't what genius thought that every game in the marketplace should warrant the same price either subs or box price but that's just crazy talk. The prices need to be dynamic, dependent on production qualities, on-going support, what the market think the game is worth.
Quality of the game AT RELEASE
You only get one chance to make a favorable impression. The people in suits pushing pencils around on desks just seem they can release crap and then have a year to fix everything and no one will be the riser. This fails time and time again... but they still do it!
Lack of Content
The answer to lack of content is not to punish the players who play your game to death and try to convince them to stop playing (FFXIV). Seriously, I keep seeing devs and pubs and even players run around saying so and so didn't release right because they tried to finish their MMO and you're not supposed to do that, just release it a bit at a time except... past history shows this doesn't work! If your game has no end game content, well you might as well line up your players and wave good by to them.
Trying to Change Everything at Once
I am a fan of new and different two, but if the idea behind the whole game is to change "everything" chances are nothing is going to turn out great and well there is a reason people like MMOs... so don't change every last thing.
IPs
IPs are not inherently evil, but sitting back and betting that you can put in a little effort, time and money into a game, speeding through QA and shrugging at concerns because your sure some fanbase is going to eat up... well history shows that will get box prices but not really subs. MMOs are a long haul product, not a short cash grab some companies try and treat them to be. Shovelware need not apply.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
The skinner box effect (rewards at random intervals is addicting) wares off after your first mmorpg, yet people remain addicted to the genere. So they hop from game to game, angry that the games suck (when in reality they are all just random reward intervals), yet continue to play.
Basically, after your first MMORPG stint, the euphoria wares off, you still need to play, but its just to feel normal, just like a real drug addiction.
Just a bunch of junkies, trying to chase that first high that theyll never achieve again.
A grim anaology, but i think it holds true to mmorpg gamers and the games they play.
For me it seems the less i play these games, the more i enjoy them, and the less i care about theoretical reasons i dislike the game, such as not liking X style of combat, or Y style of progression.
google skinner box, and possibly toss microsoft into the search. see how they make games...youll never see the word "fun" in how they program these games. they are designed to be addicting so youll continue playing them after the become unfun to play.
The skinner box effect (rewards at random intervals is addicting) wares off after your first mmorpg, yet people remain addicted to the genere. So they hop from game to game, angry that the games suck (when in reality they are all just random reward intervals), yet continue to play.
Basically, after your first MMORPG stint, the euphoria wares off, you still need to play, but its just to feel normal, just like a real drug addiction.
Just a bunch of junkies, trying to chase that first high that theyll never achieve again.
A grim anaology, but i think it holds true to mmorpg gamers and the games they play.
For me it seems the less i play these games, the more i enjoy them, and the less i care about theoretical reasons i dislike the game, such as not liking X style of combat, or Y style of progression.
google skinner box, and possibly toss microsoft into the search. see how they make games...youll never see the word "fun" in how they program these games. they are designed to be addicting so youll continue playing them after the become unfun to play.
I think it's an excellent analogy, and also a fitting one.
After all, we're talking about an endorphin induced bliss: whether that comes from brain affecting substances or generated by an entertainment activity, the applied mechanics are the same, namely that the human body including the brain and endocrine system is designed in such a way that exposure to the same stimuli will after a while lessen the effect of those stimuli, resulting in someone needing bigger and stronger stimuli to reach the same high.
That's why junkies need stronger drugs after a while to achieve the same bliss, or why thrill seekers need ever riskier endeavours to get that adrenalin/endorphin rush.
Or why MMO gamers need more to reach that initial MMO high and why MMO's seem to pale for many after years and thousands of hours of playing them, just like other gaming genres would lose their lustre if for example they would have been playing shooters for thousands of hours for year after year. No matter the gaming genre, gaming fatigue and a loss of entertainment effect is bound to kick in.
The solution of course is fairly simple, at least that's how the human body and mind work as well: add enough variety and different strains to one's entertainment diet, even to the point of leaving MMO's rest for a while doing other stuff that provides stronger stimuli and better entertainment value
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If anyone here has posted even one reason that MMO's have failed, yet that person still plays an MMO, their post itself is fail.
Whut? People complain about life but are forced to live it. People complain about the price of healthy food as compared to fast food, but still eat it (if they care about their bodies enough). People complain about the Sony hack, but still play their PS3s.
Pointing out the flaws of something doesn't mean you've given up on it entirely. In fact, if you've truly given up on it, you don't give a damn about it, and thus it's not even worth posting in the first place.
When the whole point to a discussion forum is to 'discuss', the only truly fail post is the one discouraging discussion. In other words, yours.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
If anyone here has posted even one reason that MMO's have failed, yet that person still plays an MMO, their post itself is fail.
Whut? People complain about life but are forced to live it. People complain about the price of healthy food as compared to fast food, but still eat it (if they care about their bodies enough). People complain about the Sony hack, but still play their PS3s.
Pointing out the flaws of something doesn't mean you've given up on it entirely. In fact, if you've truly given up on it, you don't give a damn about it, and thus it's not even worth posting in the first place.
When the whole point to a discussion forum is to 'discuss', the only truly fail post is the one discouraging discussion. In other words, yours.
Hmm, that's a good point. But, to add to it, people complain about stuff of which they have little influence on, like their government or their job or their neighbourhood or taxes or the bad weather and so on.
However, if they complain about stuff they can change or move away from, then that becomes a different story: if a wife complains constantly about their husband who keeps beating her without her taking action to change the situation, then that raises an eyebrow. If someone keeps complaining about his shitty job without at least trying to find different work, then he gets what he deserves too.
If people keep complaining about how MMO's suck and are ruined but still keeps following all the news about it without actually playing them, only complaining about them week in week out, then one has to wonder what sort of life they lead that they apparently haven't found other hobbies to spend their time and attention better on instead of only complaining about an interest that doesn't provide them any entertainment value or joy at all. That sounds to me more like those stereotypical grumpy old men sitting on that porch complaining about how the world/civilisation/neighbourhood has gone to hell, at least to me it sounds like a miserable way to go through your life. But, tastes differ I guess.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The skinner box effect (rewards at random intervals is addicting) wares off after your first mmorpg, yet people remain addicted to the genere. So they hop from game to game, angry that the games suck (when in reality they are all just random reward intervals), yet continue to play.
Basically, after your first MMORPG stint, the euphoria wares off, you still need to play, but its just to feel normal, just like a real drug addiction.
Just a bunch of junkies, trying to chase that first high that theyll never achieve again.
A grim anaology, but i think it holds true to mmorpg gamers and the games they play.
For me it seems the less i play these games, the more i enjoy them, and the less i care about theoretical reasons i dislike the game, such as not liking X style of combat, or Y style of progression.
google skinner box, and possibly toss microsoft into the search. see how they make games...youll never see the word "fun" in how they program these games. they are designed to be addicting so youll continue playing them after the become unfun to play.
Nope. This wouldn't have applied to my early MMO years because I had no expectation on what would or wouldn't drop from the vast majority of mobs and I spent very little time killing the few mobs that I knew did drop specific items.
It wasn't until I caught twinking and other nasty diseases from other players that I started fretting about which mob dropped what and how often. Although it's true that twinking for it's own sake can be fun, and can create characters that can do some really neat and fun things, the repetitive grind that goes into twinking definitely does have an ugly side, so if the addictive side of random drops ever did play a role in my growing dissatisfaction with MMOs, it began when I began twinking.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
If anyone here has posted even one reason that MMO's have failed, yet that person still plays an MMO, their post itself is fail.
Whut? People complain about life but are forced to live it. People complain about the price of healthy food as compared to fast food, but still eat it (if they care about their bodies enough). People complain about the Sony hack, but still play their PS3s.
Pointing out the flaws of something doesn't mean you've given up on it entirely. In fact, if you've truly given up on it, you don't give a damn about it, and thus it's not even worth posting in the first place.
When the whole point to a discussion forum is to 'discuss', the only truly fail post is the one discouraging discussion. In other words, yours.
Complaining about something and saying something has failed are two different things. I can't not like something, but just because I don't like it doesn't mean it has failed.
You are not forced to to live your life, there's a way out if you so choose. You aren't forced to eat fast food, you could make your own food at home. You also don't have to sign in online to the PS3 to still find enjoyment in playing offline games.
You aren't forced to continue to pay a monthly fee to play a genre that you feel has failed.. Obviously it hasn't failed for you to find some enjoyment in it, or you wouldn't be playing it.. Who pays to play any game just for the sake of getting pissed off?There's always something else a person can do with their time and money.
2. It is a copycat league - Since Everquest launch I thnk I played Everquest 10 times over and then some. There absolutely no creativity whatever right now.
I find it odd that people complain about MMO's that feel the same, while ignoring the mass of copies gameplaywise in other game genres like for example the FPS genre.
3. MMO saturation - The mmo market is overloaded with mmos. How can one possibly max profit when the market has so many mmos competing at the same time not to mention WoW holds a ton of subscribers as it is. Stop mass producing mmos and maybe try to attempt to get 1 mmo done the right way.
This is nonsense, because it isn't just 1 company that is making MMO's, but a multitude of companies. Supply and demand, that's how it works in every industry, why would you want some totalitarian system in the MMO industry instead?
4. Social Aspect is gone - Just about every mmo created these days is build around a single player mentality. Back in the day it was about community and working together to accomplish goals.
5. Stop catering to casuals - Oh yes the big one. How can you ever make something viable and fun when you have to make dumbed down content where even a caveman so to speak can figure it out. All mmos are on easy mode because a puchase is more cherished than a communities fun and a genres long term success.
I say it is time to make something creative, fun and for god sakes please stop using 2002 technolgy.
Layers, and difficulty levels. I can't believe why it hasn't been done before, except for dungeons. In singleplayer games you can opt for difficulty levels, which solves the problem of catering to several groups of gamers with 1 game, so that a game can still be mainstream and still be enjoyed by hardcore gamers and the more casual players, by simply adjusting the difficulty settings.
You could make it so that people who opt for a more challenging difficulty setting have tougher encounters with harsher rule settings, like for example a XP death penalty but also offset with benefits, like faster XP gain or better loot chances for example.
At the moment there isn't a mechanic in place like you see in singleplayer games where various groups of gamers are catered efficiently depending on their gameplay experience wish.
there are some MMO's that let you do this. COH/COV for example. I have another idea tho, why not make whole servers based on challenge levels
Comments
Well I'll start simple. The number 1 reason any mmo fails has to be because it doesn't run well on the majority of computers out there. Nothing cuts more into your potential subscriber base than this. People don't even get to tolerate the situation to see if they even like your gameplay. Look at all the most popular mmorpgs from mmorpg genre day 1, they all ran well on the majority of computers at that time.
Misleading headline @ OP, eh? I thought you would give us a reason why MMOs might be better on consoles. No, no - okay
But yes, I agree.
It's simply because new ideas are more critical to get money for. If you release a product which has a certain value because a similar game-mechanic was once popular (look at all the retarded clones, even wow cloned, but somehow made it right and got famous) then you lay down your numbers of how many subs your game gets and you get your cash, easy as that.
But new ideas? Investors go like: "wohooo easy - do you have aaaaaanyyyyyyy idea if that could possibly work? and IF NOT then WHAT? All money gone? nononnnooonoooo stick with a regular "sandbox"-system or no moneh!"
'Nuff said.
And I hope Publishers remember in the next years why Games were created once: Not only to dully entertain, more to let oneself drift away in another universe, forget your messy/stressful life on earth and most important lets you get new ideas and be more creative!!
Grow balls, Publishers. Get guts to produce unique stuff again! Even lower budget titles can grow something very big if the IDEA IS GENUINE!
1)I don't really think PC MMOs have failed at all. They just shifted priorities.
2)Developing an mmorpg has become so expensive that few investors are willing to take risks for new ideas, hence the homogeneity of what is out there right now. WoW's success has also sparked this mindset that if they create a cheap knockoff brand of it, people will play. It hasn't worked out too well so far.
3)Game development in general have shifted towards more consoles. Publishers like to pretend that it's due to piracy. But the real reason in my opinion is that console players are more gullible, casual, and easier to cater to. Developing games for consoles is also easier and cheaper.
4)"Social" "games", aka facebook flash games are easier to develop and rake in more cash. Low risk, high yield. Hence why many high profile devs have hopped abroad that bandwagon.
5)Actual MMORPG players aren't really vying for anything new at the moment.
Failed to do what? Deliver what a few of the originals did? Yes... Make money? No...
Everquest was my first game. I'll always find that game near flawless (before Luclin and more so PoP). SWG was another classic before NGE. I've ran through so many MMO's I can't remember half of them. Only a few have left lasting memories. Now I'm sure I can think of more than just 5, but I'll pick the best ones.
1. LEVELING - This is the number one reason for me. Leveling now is too damn fast. I remember being excited to get to level 8 and get my new spells in EQ! Now getting to level 15+ in a few hours is next to nothing. What the genre has done now is made the game to be played and enjoyed at the end... Not the beginning or middle... But the end. Whatever happened to it's the journey that counts? I feel the leveling should be a lot slower, but with the same amount of content and things to do that the end game gives at all levels. I never made it past 35 in the original EQ because I kept rerolling into new classes and races to try out different areas.
2. GROUPING - This is another big one. I don't believe we should be forced to group, but it should be heavily emphasized. It's not called a Massively Singleplayer Online Roleplaying Game is it? The whole point of multiplayer gaming is to game with others. It's not always going to be feasible, and that's why soloing should still be an option. I just feel being able to solo your way to the end of multiplayer games defeats the purpose of them.
3. TRAVEL - One of my pet peeves. This whole instant travel we have in games now is garbage. I'll use EQ again as an example. You had to run, take a boat, and run some more before you could reach several places. When you got there, it meant something! Being one of few Humans among Elves or vice versa. It made the world that much more immersive because it took time to get to places. We still had players able to port you, but this also added to the social aspect of the game, something that is seriously lacking nowadays.
4. VARIETY - I like feeling unique, special in a game. Having a plethora of races and classes I thought was perfect. Now it seems we only get a very few, and the only oppurtunities we have to feel unique is by using AA points or something similar. This also goes hand in hand with starting areas. Most games nowadays if you reroll it's going to be the same thing. Back then you could reroll so many times without seeing the same stuff.
5. SOCIALIZING - This kind of ties all the others together. I'm not just talking RP, but meeting people and making friends along your journey. Downtime was essential because it allowed others to conversate and strike up new friendships. I thought SWG did this well with the cantinas. Now it just feels a lot of the time I'm playing a single player game and I don't think it should feel like that.
Maybe I'm just an old time gamer wishing things will go back to the way they were... All I know now is what we have as far as "good" options are very slim. None hit all five of my marks and if one ever comes along that days you can bet I'll be all over it. I think these options would cater to both the casual and hardcore gamer.
Eh? I think numbers prove you wrong. While Blizzard may not be doing it right for YOU, they are most certainly doing it right for a huge number of others.
I really wonder why this topic comes up, over and over again. After reading forums here for the past 7 years, it's pretty obvious that your average MMORPG poster is definately NOT equal to your average MMO gamer. Frankly, any game launched with most of the ideas espoused on these boards would be at best, a niche game, and at worst, would make AoC/Warhammer look like resounding successes!
1. Graphics - You need a top of the line computer built within the last 2-3 years to play the next MMO to come out, and that is not only at high specs. MMO's need to target graphic limitations more suitable to the lower end of computers. This would make loading screens faster and allow for the development team to work on gameplay features, rather than strive to create the best looking graphics on the market. It would be great if these limited graphics could be used to their fullest potential, by making them stylish. I like the style of Lineage 2, anything that or better is fine with me and L2 came out 7 years ago.
2. Social Gaming - I rarely talk to anyone while gaming these days. People pass by you without a word. Many people claim this is the fault of the players themselves but that is far from true. Games can implement tasks that require group interaction, if a player doesn't want to commit to a group and display teamwork then they can go play a single player game.
3. Progress - There has been a common word for this, grind. Grind isn't really so bad, it dictates the speed you go through content however it would be nice to have multiple paths on how to get there. Most MMO's just have you grind quest chain after quest chain. Having multiple options for grinding experience in games is always a plus.
4. Lag - Most games have server stability issues on release. These issues need to be addressed and fixed before any game goes P2P.
5. Unfinished Content - No one wants a game without the features mentioned. An example of this is Lineage 2 claimed they would have Capes and they were on the box art. It took 6 years for the game to implement it, as well Castle Sieges were the main attraction of PvP in the game and it wasn't available until a month after release.
1) Brazil
2) The Philippines
/flamesuit
3) Lack of originality
4) Market grew way too fast
5) Economy? - Maybe developers would be willing to make a good game if the economy didn't blow.
I'd list 5, but take most posters 5 and I'd just +1 it. I'd have to say that I believe the market is somewhat turning around, but SWTOR, GW2, TERA and Archeage will confirm that belief.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
If anyone here has posted even one reason that MMO's have failed, yet that person still plays an MMO, their post itself is fail.
Okay, okay.
You all have good points. But , I said in a previous topic....Stop saying MMO's have failed on PC. They have not. Look at damn WoW , I know alot of haters of it on here, but look at it. It's got a 12 million player base. Tell me how thats a fail?
Most MMO's are in the high tens of thousands , some in pre-millions player base numbers. Even look at Runescape.
I have no idea why people keep saying that they are failures, they are not.
What do you want, a damn player base of a billion. It's impossible.
Yes alot of MMO's are made and fail, so what, as is life.
Things are meant to be created, to be destined or doomed.
So I don't understand, why you people make daily topics about failing and dying MMOS.
There will always be popular games, non-popular games, good games, suck-ass games.
Thats the gaming world. The rotation of life.
How can you say that Blizz did it right then go into your list. Blizz caused everyone of those problems yet you say they did it right and that they are best thing since sliced bread (pretty much)?
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
AoC, STO, CO, FFXIV, DarkFall, Mortal Online, Earthrise, Fallen Earth, Xsyon, APB, Global Agenda.
'Nough said.
Someone said WoW failed? I could understand maybe a failing to please an individual but I don't think anyone means WoW failed in anyway that you are interpreting it.
Shadowbane now that's a failure.
Exactly. Thats why I said WoW is a success.
I am just sick of people making topics only about fail MMOS or dying MMOS. What about all the ones still going strong?
Maybe it's not the MMOs that have failed. Maybe I've failed at MMOs. Maybe the way I used to play was better than the way I play now. I seem to have caught the concepts of progression, endgame, twinking, gear, optimal build, rotation, having better, and being better like diseases from my fellow players. And now I hop from game to game like a jaded little flea, just like my fellow players do, when before, I played one MMO for years and shrugged off the very idea of trying a new game, because I was perfectly happy with the one I had.
I played an MMO quite happily for years before I knew what dps stood for. I think my enjoyment and immersion took a sharp dip the day someone explained it to me.
I played an MMO quite happily for years, mostly soloing missions in AO or wandering around killing and being killed by various Rubi-Ka mobs, without ever conceiving of the notion that other players would expect certain things from me regarding my gear and how I had allocated my skill points when I did choose to team with them.
I played an MMO quite happily for years, rolling alts whenever it seemed like fun, never getting anywhere near max level and not caring if I ever did, or even stopping to wonder if I would or should someday.
I played an MMO quite happily for years without any goals for my character's 'progression' (a word I would never have applied to anything I did for fun anyway). My goals centered around the moment, or at most, that evening's slice of play time, and could always be summed up by, "What kind of fun do I want to have tonight?" And the answer might be anything from find a new painting for my apartment to go see if anyone is having a party in one of the clubs or in some cleared out mission somewhere to aimlessly kill whatever mobs I found that were killable out in the middle of some nowhere.
I played an MMO quite happily for years without joining any organized group of players. Since I had a crat for a good while, getting teams was always easy, and sometimes it was hard to get away from people when I felt like some quiet solo time.
I played an MMO quite happily for years without ever farming any gear. The only thing I ever farmed was startup funds whenever I took a break and then came back and started over on a new account (which I usually did, since I never had any really high level characters worth remembering my username and password for anyway). And even then, I wanted it, not to twink with, but mostly to buy a yalm, because half of my fun in AO was just aimlessly flying around, exploring.
I also played an MMO quite happily for years before an experience that taught me how good an idea it is to always be wary of people, especially people you meet online. No MMO community will ever again feel as non-threatening and innocent as my first MMO community did, and I suspect some of the standoffishness and solo-centric behavior a lot of players complain about in these forums is coming from people who have had experiences similar to mine. The gold farmer and account thief invasion certainly doesn't help this. Even if a player restricts her online interaction to the game, not branching out into vent or Instant Messenger or doing anything else that could lead to an invasion of privacy or worse, there is always the risk that your new MMO 'friend' or your friendly new guild is just trying to get in game currency or sellable gear from you to make real money for themselves. And even if their intentions do not go past game goals, a lot of the cross-game mega-guilds really do treat most of their members as lackeys, there to build up a power base within the game for the benefit of the core group.
Really, the first few years I played were the best, not because AO was the best, but because I not only was never in a position to be sneered at by some higher-dps-than-thou bully, but because I was never even aware that MMO players ever went about sneering at each other. Or stealing from each other (kills, accounts, or anything else), or ganking players much lower level than themselves, or treating each other like things instead of like human beings, or doing much of anything unpleasant at all.
I thought...well, I thought it was all fun and games when I first started playing.
Hm. Go figure. PC MMOs used to be all about fun and games for me.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Price
No, seriously price. I don't what genius thought that every game in the marketplace should warrant the same price either subs or box price but that's just crazy talk. The prices need to be dynamic, dependent on production qualities, on-going support, what the market think the game is worth.
Quality of the game AT RELEASE
You only get one chance to make a favorable impression. The people in suits pushing pencils around on desks just seem they can release crap and then have a year to fix everything and no one will be the riser. This fails time and time again... but they still do it!
Lack of Content
The answer to lack of content is not to punish the players who play your game to death and try to convince them to stop playing (FFXIV). Seriously, I keep seeing devs and pubs and even players run around saying so and so didn't release right because they tried to finish their MMO and you're not supposed to do that, just release it a bit at a time except... past history shows this doesn't work! If your game has no end game content, well you might as well line up your players and wave good by to them.
Trying to Change Everything at Once
I am a fan of new and different two, but if the idea behind the whole game is to change "everything" chances are nothing is going to turn out great and well there is a reason people like MMOs... so don't change every last thing.
IPs
IPs are not inherently evil, but sitting back and betting that you can put in a little effort, time and money into a game, speeding through QA and shrugging at concerns because your sure some fanbase is going to eat up... well history shows that will get box prices but not really subs. MMOs are a long haul product, not a short cash grab some companies try and treat them to be. Shovelware need not apply.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I can give one reason.
The skinner box effect (rewards at random intervals is addicting) wares off after your first mmorpg, yet people remain addicted to the genere. So they hop from game to game, angry that the games suck (when in reality they are all just random reward intervals), yet continue to play.
Basically, after your first MMORPG stint, the euphoria wares off, you still need to play, but its just to feel normal, just like a real drug addiction.
Just a bunch of junkies, trying to chase that first high that theyll never achieve again.
A grim anaology, but i think it holds true to mmorpg gamers and the games they play.
For me it seems the less i play these games, the more i enjoy them, and the less i care about theoretical reasons i dislike the game, such as not liking X style of combat, or Y style of progression.
google skinner box, and possibly toss microsoft into the search. see how they make games...youll never see the word "fun" in how they program these games. they are designed to be addicting so youll continue playing them after the become unfun to play.
I think it's an excellent analogy, and also a fitting one.
After all, we're talking about an endorphin induced bliss: whether that comes from brain affecting substances or generated by an entertainment activity, the applied mechanics are the same, namely that the human body including the brain and endocrine system is designed in such a way that exposure to the same stimuli will after a while lessen the effect of those stimuli, resulting in someone needing bigger and stronger stimuli to reach the same high.
That's why junkies need stronger drugs after a while to achieve the same bliss, or why thrill seekers need ever riskier endeavours to get that adrenalin/endorphin rush.
Or why MMO gamers need more to reach that initial MMO high and why MMO's seem to pale for many after years and thousands of hours of playing them, just like other gaming genres would lose their lustre if for example they would have been playing shooters for thousands of hours for year after year. No matter the gaming genre, gaming fatigue and a loss of entertainment effect is bound to kick in.
The solution of course is fairly simple, at least that's how the human body and mind work as well: add enough variety and different strains to one's entertainment diet, even to the point of leaving MMO's rest for a while doing other stuff that provides stronger stimuli and better entertainment value
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Whut? People complain about life but are forced to live it. People complain about the price of healthy food as compared to fast food, but still eat it (if they care about their bodies enough). People complain about the Sony hack, but still play their PS3s.
Pointing out the flaws of something doesn't mean you've given up on it entirely. In fact, if you've truly given up on it, you don't give a damn about it, and thus it's not even worth posting in the first place.
When the whole point to a discussion forum is to 'discuss', the only truly fail post is the one discouraging discussion. In other words, yours.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Hmm, that's a good point. But, to add to it, people complain about stuff of which they have little influence on, like their government or their job or their neighbourhood or taxes or the bad weather and so on.
However, if they complain about stuff they can change or move away from, then that becomes a different story: if a wife complains constantly about their husband who keeps beating her without her taking action to change the situation, then that raises an eyebrow. If someone keeps complaining about his shitty job without at least trying to find different work, then he gets what he deserves too.
If people keep complaining about how MMO's suck and are ruined but still keeps following all the news about it without actually playing them, only complaining about them week in week out, then one has to wonder what sort of life they lead that they apparently haven't found other hobbies to spend their time and attention better on instead of only complaining about an interest that doesn't provide them any entertainment value or joy at all. That sounds to me more like those stereotypical grumpy old men sitting on that porch complaining about how the world/civilisation/neighbourhood has gone to hell, at least to me it sounds like a miserable way to go through your life. But, tastes differ I guess.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Nope. This wouldn't have applied to my early MMO years because I had no expectation on what would or wouldn't drop from the vast majority of mobs and I spent very little time killing the few mobs that I knew did drop specific items.
It wasn't until I caught twinking and other nasty diseases from other players that I started fretting about which mob dropped what and how often. Although it's true that twinking for it's own sake can be fun, and can create characters that can do some really neat and fun things, the repetitive grind that goes into twinking definitely does have an ugly side, so if the addictive side of random drops ever did play a role in my growing dissatisfaction with MMOs, it began when I began twinking.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Complaining about something and saying something has failed are two different things. I can't not like something, but just because I don't like it doesn't mean it has failed.
You are not forced to to live your life, there's a way out if you so choose. You aren't forced to eat fast food, you could make your own food at home. You also don't have to sign in online to the PS3 to still find enjoyment in playing offline games.
You aren't forced to continue to pay a monthly fee to play a genre that you feel has failed.. Obviously it hasn't failed for you to find some enjoyment in it, or you wouldn't be playing it.. Who pays to play any game just for the sake of getting pissed off?There's always something else a person can do with their time and money.
there are some MMO's that let you do this. COH/COV for example. I have another idea tho, why not make whole servers based on challenge levels