I dont believe anyone currently is making money off Eve except for CCP, unless you count rmters and bot sellers, and i doubt very much they would be buying any sort of licence from CCP anyway. MMMmmmm except for timecode sellers like shattered crystal that is, but they have an agreement with CCP anyway.
I do know Capsuleer was being developed with the idea of making some money off it, but the blanket nature of the "draft" offering CCP just laid out and retracted was ill considered in the extreme.
Most of the ranting seems to be from those ignorant of what is really being suggested. From reading posts on here and the EVE forums most are under the impression everyone will have to pay a license fee.
Many that understand there is a difference, seem to believe just because someone says there are no fiscal gains to be had and they are operating at a loss, then it must be true for now and always.
It is really a non-issue. If you really love to develop and provide apps for free then you are able to continue with a free license. If you want compensation for your work or investment, then you buy a license for such.
The idea that one should not pay any license fees because they aren't turning a profit at the moment isn't reasonable. CCP does not have the resources to track the profits and loss of everyone, nor in a business world can one just use the honesty policy for such information. So the only alternative is to require a license to operate if payment of any type is received for services which utilize the EVE API.
If anything, this will open up the doors to make better 3rd party applications as now they have a legitimate and legal monetary incentive to make a product to draw in customers.
Most of the ranting seems to be from those ignorant of what is really being suggested. From reading posts on here and the EVE forums most are under the impression everyone will have to pay a license fee.
Many that understand there is a difference, seem to believe just because someone says there are no fiscal gains to be had and they are operating at a loss, then it must be true for now and always.
It is really a non-issue. If you really love to develop and provide apps for free then you are able to continue with a free license. If you want compensation for your work or investment, then you buy a license for such.
The idea that one should not pay any license fees because they aren't turning a profit at the moment isn't reasonable. CCP does not have the resources to track the profits and loss of everyone, nor in a business world can one just use the honesty policy for such information. So the only alternative is to require a license to operate if payment of any type is received for services which utilize the EVE API.
If anything, this will open up the doors to make better 3rd party applications as now they have a legitimate and legal monetary incentive to make a product to draw in customers.
It is a major issues because any website or app that asks for donations or have any ads, to support the fact that they have to pay to host their site, will have to now pay money to CCP. These are not intended to make profit but rather a thank you for people who spend their free time and own money to add services to Eve players.
If you read that thread you will see that many authors of Eve 3rd party website and apps will cease their support if this goes through.
what other mmos even allow people to profit via addons and such? I mean geezus guys get a grip, there could just be ZERO third party development like 99% of mmos out there.
Yeah, it's sad to see CCP get bullied by the greedy. Was extremely reasonable. If you want to make money off of the apps pay $99 a year, you want to keep the apps free pay nothing. The response was a bunch of greedy bastards yelling and spewing crap about how greedy CCP is lol.
Hope they stick to there guns as it was a good plan of action and more than reasonable. It's a slippery slope if they back off. CCP needs to look at how other companies are handling it.
Look at other places you either have much higher licensing fees and or companies taking a percentage off the top lol. CCP cut developers wanting to charge a break, I hope this time to "iterate" on the idea gives them a chance to look at what they are doing and realize how low that $99 a year figure was.
There is a big difference between designing an app and requiring a fee for it and having an app free of charge but adding a donate button so that grateful people can show their appreciation. Huge difference...
Yeah, it's sad to see CCP get bullied by the greedy. Was extremely reasonable. If you want to make money off of the apps pay $99 a year, you want to keep the apps free pay nothing. The response was a bunch of greedy bastards yelling and spewing crap about how greedy CCP is lol.
Hope they stick to there guns as it was a good plan of action and more than reasonable. It's a slippery slope if they back off. CCP needs to look at how other companies are handling it.
Look at other places you either have much higher licensing fees and or companies taking a percentage off the top lol. CCP cut developers wanting to charge a break, I hope this time to "iterate" on the idea gives them a chance to look at what they are doing and realize how low that $99 a year figure was.
CP should be paying people like Wolari and Chribba, not charging them. They provide vital services that CCP should have developed themselves.
Once again, these people aren't making a profit; they're spending their own money to help CCP and the community. If your mother came round and made you chicken soup when you were sick, would you charge her for using your electricity? According to you, she'd be a greedy freeloader.
There is a big difference between designing an app and requiring a fee for it and having an app free of charge but adding a donate button so that grateful people can show their appreciation. Huge difference...
As they've said this is still an ideal that is not set in stone, who knows maybe they can work around this issue. The general issue though is not those who do it for free it's those who are making money off of CCP's IP and product. Which CCP has every right to step in there and ask for a chunk of that pie, they could do far worse you know, lawsuits are one way to go, cease and decist another.
Instead they are looking for a civil way to stop the issue, that both helps them as well as allows those not making money to continue as they are.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
CP should be paying people like Wolari and Chribba, not charging them. They provide vital services that CCP should have developed themselves.
Once again, these people aren't making a profit; they're spending their own money to help CCP and the community. If your mother came round and made you chicken soup when you were sick, would you charge her for using your electricity? According to you, she'd be a greedy freeloader.
If they're not making money (charging for it) how are they being effected by this?
Your analogy was a horrible one btw, this is more like saying people who create aimbots or other hacks and charge for them are not victims when companies shut them down. Not saying people are creating hacks, just the simple act of creating a 3rd party app and charging for it.
Vital services, what exactly do they offer that's so vital to playing the game as it was designed to be played?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There is a big difference between designing an app and requiring a fee for it and having an app free of charge but adding a donate button so that grateful people can show their appreciation. Huge difference...
If they are wanting appreciation ask for a thank you. If they are looking for money they are wanting more than appreciation. They are looking for monetary gain. Aside from that ads alone generate enough to cover hosting etc. the donate button on top of the ads is to generate income that either avoids taxes or it's used to get around rules/regulations put in place to keep people from profiting off of things they shouldn't be. Movie sites do this alot as they aren't supposed to be charging. Charging = quick take down, a donation button instead of a fee keeps them around for a lot longer. They use ads to take care of hosting and what not and yes those sites see a great deal more bandwidth usage and ads still manage to pay the bills. Any donations beyond that is simply free money.
What I love is that there are those out there that require manditory donations before you can aquire/use w/e. Gotta love that "So they can show appreciation if they are grateful" button
If you disagree about ads being enough to cover your fees and you feel you need both the donations and the ads to keep going then you really need to find another hobby because you aren't doing it right.
And keep in mind thats what these people went in as, hobbyist. If they want to profit from it CCP was pretty damn fair about it. $99 a year, thats insanely low.
Or you could be a real gamer, and stop using addons, and figure out all the stuff you need to know by yourself, and avoid all these issues. 3rd party programs are just for people to be lazy and still be good, I would have no problem seeing all these addons going away and us going back to old school gaming when you had to figure shit out on your own, we dont need sites posting maps, quest guides, calculators for min/maxing, loadouts, and all the other crap people use these for. You can use your head and figure it out for yourself as was intended by the game developers.
Yeah, it's sad to see CCP get bullied by the greedy. Was extremely reasonable. If you want to make money off of the apps pay $99 a year, you want to keep the apps free pay nothing. The response was a bunch of greedy bastards yelling and spewing crap about how greedy CCP is lol.
Hope they stick to there guns as it was a good plan of action and more than reasonable. It's a slippery slope if they back off. CCP needs to look at how other companies are handling it.
Look at other places you either have much higher licensing fees and or companies taking a percentage off the top lol. CCP cut developers wanting to charge a break, I hope this time to "iterate" on the idea gives them a chance to look at what they are doing and realize how low that $99 a year figure was.
CP should be paying people like Wolari and Chribba, not charging them. They provide vital services that CCP should have developed themselves.
Once again, these people aren't making a profit; they're spending their own money to help CCP and the community. If your mother came round and made you chicken soup when you were sick, would you charge her for using your electricity? According to you, she'd be a greedy freeloader.
If it were vital services that you simply could not play EVE without sure you'd have a point, if they were contracted to develop these apps and not just some random hobbyist again you may have a point. Until either of these is true though I simply can't seem to read beyond "CCP should be paying people like Wolari and Chribba".
At the risk of sounding corporate-y, I have to say I‘m impressed and greatful for the amount of passion shown in this thread.
There are a lot of very valid points raised here. What's interesting is that most, if not all, of the issues that are being raised are because of confusing wording, terminology or misunderstandings in the draft document.
It is in no way the purpose of the program to deter or make money off 3rd party development. The core purpose is simply to have control our IP and brand and have a contract in place so we can have some form of regulation on apps and services that use the EVE name and EVE resources (API).
It‘s obvious we have to review and iterate on the contract and program as presented in the devblog since most of the points mentioned in the comments are not in line with its core purpose.
Unfortunately that will take some time and we‘re kind of swamped for the next couple of weeks.
So what we‘ll do is take a step back, harvest feedback from this thread, do an iteration pass on the contract and terms and give you an updated version before the end of summer. Until we have a license that meets our needs and your expectations we will not make any changes to our terms or enforcement thereof.
As always, your feedback is not only welcomed but in fact essential to us. Thank you.
CP should be paying people like Wolari and Chribba, not charging them. They provide vital services that CCP should have developed themselves.
Once again, these people aren't making a profit; they're spending their own money to help CCP and the community. If your mother came round and made you chicken soup when you were sick, would you charge her for using your electricity? According to you, she'd be a greedy freeloader.
If they're not making money (charging for it) how are they being effected by this?
Your analogy was a horrible one btw, this is more like saying people who create aimbots or other hacks and charge for them are not victims when companies shut them down. Not saying people are creating hacks, just the simple act of creating a 3rd party app and charging for it.
Vital services, what exactly do they offer that's so vital to playing the game as it was designed to be played?
THEY ARE GETTING DONATIONS. THEY DO NOT MAKE A NET PROFIT FROM DONATIONS. THE DONATIONS DONT MAKE THE APP PROFITABLE, THEY JUST HELP TO COVER THE HOSTING COST. SOME OF THE APPS ARE ONLY GETTING ISK DONATIONS AND CCP HAVE ALWAYS SAID THAT IN-GAME CURRENCY HAS NO REAL LIFE VALUE, BUT THEY STILL WANT YOU TO PAY A LICENSE FEE FOR THAT.
SO IMAGINE YOU ARE AN APP DEVELOPER AND YOU ARE PAYING 15 BUCKS A MONTH TO HOST YOUR APP. A FEW GUYS GIVE YOU DONATIONS AND YOU GET MAYBE 60 OR 70 DOLLARS TO HELP WITH YOUR HOSTING. YOUR APP NOW ONLY COSTS YOU 5 BUCKS A MONTH. THEN CCP SAY THEY WANT A HUNDRED DOLLARS FROM YOU, IN RETURN FOR WHICH YOU GET NOTHING, NO MARKET PLACE, NO HOSTING, NO IDE, NO DOCUMENTATION, NO TECH SUPPORT, NO LEGAL SUPPORT. SO YOU SAY FUCK THIS SHIT, NOW IT COSTS ME $220 A YEAR FOR THIS AND WHO KNOWS HOW MANY DONATIONS I'LL GET IN THE FUTURE.
AND SO YOU TAKE YOUR APP DOWN AND THE EVE COMMUNITY IS NOW POORER.
I AM USING GREEN CAPITALS BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO READ THIS SIMPLE FACT WHEN IT WAS POSTED IN NORMAL TEXT, MAYBE YOU HAVE DYSLEXIA OR SOMETHING. IF SO I AM DOING THIS TO HELP, OK? I READ SOMEWHERE THAT GREEN TEXT IS EASIER FOR DYSLEXICS TO READ. DID YOU KNOW THAT LEONARDO DA VINCI WAS DYSLEXIC?
Honoeslty CCP can do whatever they want with their IP, its the playerbase thats lucky that they are willing to listen to the whinning that they do. People wanting to do things easily, and make money off of others work, thats what the majority of people are complaining about, o m g, I cant use CCPs stuff to minmax for free anymore is really what Im hearing from all those players, and calling CCP greedy? are you kidding me? CCP has a way for you to play their game without even paying a subscription, how the hell can any of them come off calling CCP greedy.
They are the leading Indy Developer, who listens to their player base more then anyone else, and argubly more then they should, players need to come back to the earth and stop living in the clouds, games are made by other people for you to play in and enjoy, what they choose to do with it is their decision, stop this feeling of entitlement of all these things you think you should be allowed to do, you arnt some citizen living in a harsh world and then all of a sudden the big bad government is trying to change things.
They are that games gods, the fact that you even question their shit just bothers me, if you dont like it because your blindly ignorante, screw off, Developers need to stand back up for themselves and kick all these idiots who disagree with them from their games, its their right to. Players are getting huge egos because they think oh if we dont give them our money then they wont survive very long, so we can scare corporations into doing what WE think the game should be like, which is just utter bullshit, everyones forgetting that its their game to change how they want and share with us, and that without them, we wouldnt have shit to play, they give all their effort, time, and money to make something for other gamers to enjoy, and people just turn on them, its sickening.
CP should be paying people like Wolari and Chribba, not charging them. They provide vital services that CCP should have developed themselves.
Once again, these people aren't making a profit; they're spending their own money to help CCP and the community. If your mother came round and made you chicken soup when you were sick, would you charge her for using your electricity? According to you, she'd be a greedy freeloader.
If they're not making money (charging for it) how are they being effected by this?
They are not charging for their services but people can freely donate to them for their hard work and some of them have adds on their site to pay for hosting and other costs. This would requiring them to pay money to CCP for providing a service for their customers, free of charge.
That is why I said there is a huge difference between these people and other who are actually requiring you to pay to use their services. Those are the only who should have to pay for a license.
If it goes through as is, it will be close to what NGE was for SWG. People would get unfuriated when they see that the free 3pp services that they used would either get brought down or starting to charge money to use them so they can pay of CCP. It is ridicilous beyond belief if they went through with this.
Honestly, CCP are damned lucky they have the commited and engaged player base that they do, they may however be in danger of losing that playerbase if they continue in this fashion. The players pay CCP, and having an IP is of no use if no one is interested in it.
Edit: But then i guess, some people cannot see beyond the money, usually suits.
There is a big difference between designing an app and requiring a fee for it and having an app free of charge but adding a donate button so that grateful people can show their appreciation. Huge difference...
If they are wanting appreciation ask for a thank you. If they are looking for money they are wanting more than appreciation. They are looking for monetary gain. Aside from that ads alone generate enough to cover hosting etc. the donate button on top of the ads is to generate income that either avoids taxes or it's used to get around rules/regulations put in place to keep people from profiting off of things they shouldn't be. Movie sites do this alot as they aren't supposed to be charging. Charging = quick take down, a donation button instead of a fee keeps them around for a lot longer. They use ads to take care of hosting and what not and yes those sites see a great deal more bandwidth usage and ads still manage to pay the bills. Any donations beyond that is simply free money.
What I love is that there are those out there that require manditory donations before you can aquire/use w/e. Gotta love that "So they can show appreciation if they are grateful" button
If you disagree about ads being enough to cover your fees and you feel you need both the donations and the ads to keep going then you really need to find another hobby because you aren't doing it right.
And keep in mind thats what these people went in as, hobbyist. If they want to profit from it CCP was pretty damn fair about it. $99 a year, thats insanely low.
You remind me of the same kind of people that defended NGE in SWG. There is no reasoning with you. I personally dont play Eve anymore so I dont care much, so let's just wait and see what happens when/if this goes through.
Honestly, CCP are damned lucky they have the commited and engaged player base that they do, they may however be in danger of losing that playerbase if they continue in this fashion. The players pay CCP, and having an IP is of no use if no one is interested in it.
Edit: But then i guess, some people cannot see beyond the money, usually suits.
Yes and what CCP fails to realise that they stand to lose alot more from lost subs than what they will make from the licensing fees.
The outrage in that thread should be enough indication of this...
If you think about it, what are some of the first things people are told when they join EvE (in random order, and by no means complete); get EvEMon, get EFT, do the tutorials. That exemplifies, to me, how important the development community is to the game, and good to see CCP stepping back and looking at how they can clear up any misunderstandings. We'll see what v2 brings....
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
CP should be paying people like Wolari and Chribba, not charging them. They provide vital services that CCP should have developed themselves.
Once again, these people aren't making a profit; they're spending their own money to help CCP and the community. If your mother came round and made you chicken soup when you were sick, would you charge her for using your electricity? According to you, she'd be a greedy freeloader.
If they're not making money (charging for it) how are they being effected by this?
They are not charging for their services but people can freely donate to them for their hard work and some of them have adds on their site to pay for hosting and other costs. This would requiring them to pay money to CCP for providing a service for their customers, free of charge.
That is why I said there is a huge difference between these people and other who are actually requiring you to pay to use their services. Those are the only who should have to pay for a license.
If it goes through as is, it will be close to what NGE was for SWG. People would get unfuriated when they see that the free 3pp services that they used would either get brought down or starting to charge money to use them so they can pay of CCP. It is ridicilous beyond belief if they went through with this.
Well thanks for taking the time to maturely answer the question (yeah I'm referring to the big block of green text above). I just wonder if there's anyway around getting donations for hosting and still offering it as a free service, while not having to pay CCP.
I understand that side of the issues dilemma, yet I also understand CCP's. It's really a catch 22 for those who are taking donations it seems. Which is questionable and surely CCP would have to see that for what it is, donations do not equal to profit.
In the past CCP has tended to back out of issues that caused this much animosity. Maybe they'll compromise with them, the again maybe they won't.
I agree only those actually charging for the service should be charged by CCP.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
CP should be paying people like Wolari and Chribba, not charging them. They provide vital services that CCP should have developed themselves.
Once again, these people aren't making a profit; they're spending their own money to help CCP and the community. If your mother came round and made you chicken soup when you were sick, would you charge her for using your electricity? According to you, she'd be a greedy freeloader.
If they're not making money (charging for it) how are they being effected by this?
They are not charging for their services but people can freely donate to them for their hard work and some of them have adds on their site to pay for hosting and other costs. This would requiring them to pay money to CCP for providing a service for their customers, free of charge.
That is why I said there is a huge difference between these people and other who are actually requiring you to pay to use their services. Those are the only who should have to pay for a license.
If it goes through as is, it will be close to what NGE was for SWG. People would get unfuriated when they see that the free 3pp services that they used would either get brought down or starting to charge money to use them so they can pay of CCP. It is ridicilous beyond belief if they went through with this.
Well thanks for taking the time to maturely answer the question (yeah I'm referring to the big block of green text above). I just wonder if there's anyway around getting donations for hosting and still offering it as a free service, while not having to pay CCP.
I understand that side of the issues delimma, yet I also understand CCP's. It's really a catch 22 for those wh are taking donations it seems. Which is questionable and surely CCP would have to see that for what it is, donations do not equal to profit.
In the past CCP has tended to back out of issues that caused this much animosity. Maybe they'll compromise with them, the again maybe they won't.
I agree only those actually charging for the service should be charged by CCP.
donations don't equal profit.... so their not donating money then.... riiiiight...
Comments
I dont believe anyone currently is making money off Eve except for CCP, unless you count rmters and bot sellers, and i doubt very much they would be buying any sort of licence from CCP anyway. MMMmmmm except for timecode sellers like shattered crystal that is, but they have an agreement with CCP anyway.
I do know Capsuleer was being developed with the idea of making some money off it, but the blanket nature of the "draft" offering CCP just laid out and retracted was ill considered in the extreme.
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
Most of the ranting seems to be from those ignorant of what is really being suggested. From reading posts on here and the EVE forums most are under the impression everyone will have to pay a license fee.
Many that understand there is a difference, seem to believe just because someone says there are no fiscal gains to be had and they are operating at a loss, then it must be true for now and always.
It is really a non-issue. If you really love to develop and provide apps for free then you are able to continue with a free license. If you want compensation for your work or investment, then you buy a license for such.
The idea that one should not pay any license fees because they aren't turning a profit at the moment isn't reasonable. CCP does not have the resources to track the profits and loss of everyone, nor in a business world can one just use the honesty policy for such information. So the only alternative is to require a license to operate if payment of any type is received for services which utilize the EVE API.
If anything, this will open up the doors to make better 3rd party applications as now they have a legitimate and legal monetary incentive to make a product to draw in customers.
Always said that CCP is a greedy company with the way characters advance and their PLEX RMT, now it is shown further.
My gaming blog
It is a major issues because any website or app that asks for donations or have any ads, to support the fact that they have to pay to host their site, will have to now pay money to CCP. These are not intended to make profit but rather a thank you for people who spend their free time and own money to add services to Eve players.
If you read that thread you will see that many authors of Eve 3rd party website and apps will cease their support if this goes through.
My gaming blog
what other mmos even allow people to profit via addons and such? I mean geezus guys get a grip, there could just be ZERO third party development like 99% of mmos out there.
Yeah, it's sad to see CCP get bullied by the greedy. Was extremely reasonable. If you want to make money off of the apps pay $99 a year, you want to keep the apps free pay nothing. The response was a bunch of greedy bastards yelling and spewing crap about how greedy CCP is lol.
Hope they stick to there guns as it was a good plan of action and more than reasonable. It's a slippery slope if they back off. CCP needs to look at how other companies are handling it.
Look at other places you either have much higher licensing fees and or companies taking a percentage off the top lol. CCP cut developers wanting to charge a break, I hope this time to "iterate" on the idea gives them a chance to look at what they are doing and realize how low that $99 a year figure was.
There is a big difference between designing an app and requiring a fee for it and having an app free of charge but adding a donate button so that grateful people can show their appreciation. Huge difference...
My gaming blog
CP should be paying people like Wolari and Chribba, not charging them. They provide vital services that CCP should have developed themselves.
Once again, these people aren't making a profit; they're spending their own money to help CCP and the community. If your mother came round and made you chicken soup when you were sick, would you charge her for using your electricity? According to you, she'd be a greedy freeloader.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
As they've said this is still an ideal that is not set in stone, who knows maybe they can work around this issue. The general issue though is not those who do it for free it's those who are making money off of CCP's IP and product. Which CCP has every right to step in there and ask for a chunk of that pie, they could do far worse you know, lawsuits are one way to go, cease and decist another.
Instead they are looking for a civil way to stop the issue, that both helps them as well as allows those not making money to continue as they are.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If they're not making money (charging for it) how are they being effected by this?
Your analogy was a horrible one btw, this is more like saying people who create aimbots or other hacks and charge for them are not victims when companies shut them down. Not saying people are creating hacks, just the simple act of creating a 3rd party app and charging for it.
Vital services, what exactly do they offer that's so vital to playing the game as it was designed to be played?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If they are wanting appreciation ask for a thank you. If they are looking for money they are wanting more than appreciation. They are looking for monetary gain. Aside from that ads alone generate enough to cover hosting etc. the donate button on top of the ads is to generate income that either avoids taxes or it's used to get around rules/regulations put in place to keep people from profiting off of things they shouldn't be. Movie sites do this alot as they aren't supposed to be charging. Charging = quick take down, a donation button instead of a fee keeps them around for a lot longer. They use ads to take care of hosting and what not and yes those sites see a great deal more bandwidth usage and ads still manage to pay the bills. Any donations beyond that is simply free money.
What I love is that there are those out there that require manditory donations before you can aquire/use w/e. Gotta love that "So they can show appreciation if they are grateful" button
If you disagree about ads being enough to cover your fees and you feel you need both the donations and the ads to keep going then you really need to find another hobby because you aren't doing it right.
And keep in mind thats what these people went in as, hobbyist. If they want to profit from it CCP was pretty damn fair about it. $99 a year, thats insanely low.
Or you could be a real gamer, and stop using addons, and figure out all the stuff you need to know by yourself, and avoid all these issues. 3rd party programs are just for people to be lazy and still be good, I would have no problem seeing all these addons going away and us going back to old school gaming when you had to figure shit out on your own, we dont need sites posting maps, quest guides, calculators for min/maxing, loadouts, and all the other crap people use these for. You can use your head and figure it out for yourself as was intended by the game developers.
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
If it were vital services that you simply could not play EVE without sure you'd have a point, if they were contracted to develop these apps and not just some random hobbyist again you may have a point. Until either of these is true though I simply can't seem to read beyond "CCP should be paying people like Wolari and Chribba".
Latest from CCP Zulu:
===================================================================
Hello all.
At the risk of sounding corporate-y, I have to say I‘m impressed and greatful for the amount of passion shown in this thread.
There are a lot of very valid points raised here. What's interesting is that most, if not all, of the issues that are being raised are because of confusing wording, terminology or misunderstandings in the draft document.
It is in no way the purpose of the program to deter or make money off 3rd party development. The core purpose is simply to have control our IP and brand and have a contract in place so we can have some form of regulation on apps and services that use the EVE name and EVE resources (API).
It‘s obvious we have to review and iterate on the contract and program as presented in the devblog since most of the points mentioned in the comments are not in line with its core purpose.
Unfortunately that will take some time and we‘re kind of swamped for the next couple of weeks.
So what we‘ll do is take a step back, harvest feedback from this thread, do an iteration pass on the contract and terms and give you an updated version before the end of summer. Until we have a license that meets our needs and your expectations we will not make any changes to our terms or enforcement thereof.
As always, your feedback is not only welcomed but in fact essential to us. Thank you.
Arnar Hrafn Gylfason
Senior Producer of EVE Online
======================================================================
Sounds like they're re-writing the whole thing and will have a draft for approval before the end of summer. So no action will be taken.
At this point this thread can probably be locked until CCP trys to mess with us again.
THEY ARE GETTING DONATIONS. THEY DO NOT MAKE A NET PROFIT FROM DONATIONS. THE DONATIONS DONT MAKE THE APP PROFITABLE, THEY JUST HELP TO COVER THE HOSTING COST. SOME OF THE APPS ARE ONLY GETTING ISK DONATIONS AND CCP HAVE ALWAYS SAID THAT IN-GAME CURRENCY HAS NO REAL LIFE VALUE, BUT THEY STILL WANT YOU TO PAY A LICENSE FEE FOR THAT.
SO IMAGINE YOU ARE AN APP DEVELOPER AND YOU ARE PAYING 15 BUCKS A MONTH TO HOST YOUR APP. A FEW GUYS GIVE YOU DONATIONS AND YOU GET MAYBE 60 OR 70 DOLLARS TO HELP WITH YOUR HOSTING. YOUR APP NOW ONLY COSTS YOU 5 BUCKS A MONTH. THEN CCP SAY THEY WANT A HUNDRED DOLLARS FROM YOU, IN RETURN FOR WHICH YOU GET NOTHING, NO MARKET PLACE, NO HOSTING, NO IDE, NO DOCUMENTATION, NO TECH SUPPORT, NO LEGAL SUPPORT. SO YOU SAY FUCK THIS SHIT, NOW IT COSTS ME $220 A YEAR FOR THIS AND WHO KNOWS HOW MANY DONATIONS I'LL GET IN THE FUTURE.
AND SO YOU TAKE YOUR APP DOWN AND THE EVE COMMUNITY IS NOW POORER.
I AM USING GREEN CAPITALS BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO READ THIS SIMPLE FACT WHEN IT WAS POSTED IN NORMAL TEXT, MAYBE YOU HAVE DYSLEXIA OR SOMETHING. IF SO I AM DOING THIS TO HELP, OK? I READ SOMEWHERE THAT GREEN TEXT IS EASIER FOR DYSLEXICS TO READ. DID YOU KNOW THAT LEONARDO DA VINCI WAS DYSLEXIC?
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Honoeslty CCP can do whatever they want with their IP, its the playerbase thats lucky that they are willing to listen to the whinning that they do. People wanting to do things easily, and make money off of others work, thats what the majority of people are complaining about, o m g, I cant use CCPs stuff to minmax for free anymore is really what Im hearing from all those players, and calling CCP greedy? are you kidding me? CCP has a way for you to play their game without even paying a subscription, how the hell can any of them come off calling CCP greedy.
They are the leading Indy Developer, who listens to their player base more then anyone else, and argubly more then they should, players need to come back to the earth and stop living in the clouds, games are made by other people for you to play in and enjoy, what they choose to do with it is their decision, stop this feeling of entitlement of all these things you think you should be allowed to do, you arnt some citizen living in a harsh world and then all of a sudden the big bad government is trying to change things.
They are that games gods, the fact that you even question their shit just bothers me, if you dont like it because your blindly ignorante, screw off, Developers need to stand back up for themselves and kick all these idiots who disagree with them from their games, its their right to. Players are getting huge egos because they think oh if we dont give them our money then they wont survive very long, so we can scare corporations into doing what WE think the game should be like, which is just utter bullshit, everyones forgetting that its their game to change how they want and share with us, and that without them, we wouldnt have shit to play, they give all their effort, time, and money to make something for other gamers to enjoy, and people just turn on them, its sickening.
Mess with the best, Die like the rest
They are not charging for their services but people can freely donate to them for their hard work and some of them have adds on their site to pay for hosting and other costs. This would requiring them to pay money to CCP for providing a service for their customers, free of charge.
That is why I said there is a huge difference between these people and other who are actually requiring you to pay to use their services. Those are the only who should have to pay for a license.
If it goes through as is, it will be close to what NGE was for SWG. People would get unfuriated when they see that the free 3pp services that they used would either get brought down or starting to charge money to use them so they can pay of CCP. It is ridicilous beyond belief if they went through with this.
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Honestly, CCP are damned lucky they have the commited and engaged player base that they do, they may however be in danger of losing that playerbase if they continue in this fashion. The players pay CCP, and having an IP is of no use if no one is interested in it.
Edit: But then i guess, some people cannot see beyond the money, usually suits.
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
You remind me of the same kind of people that defended NGE in SWG. There is no reasoning with you. I personally dont play Eve anymore so I dont care much, so let's just wait and see what happens when/if this goes through.
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Yes and what CCP fails to realise that they stand to lose alot more from lost subs than what they will make from the licensing fees.
The outrage in that thread should be enough indication of this...
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Let me explain how terrible this proposal from CCP was:
Yamota and I are agreeing unreservedly with each other
It's that bad.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
hehe, so true.
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If you think about it, what are some of the first things people are told when they join EvE (in random order, and by no means complete); get EvEMon, get EFT, do the tutorials. That exemplifies, to me, how important the development community is to the game, and good to see CCP stepping back and looking at how they can clear up any misunderstandings. We'll see what v2 brings....
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Well thanks for taking the time to maturely answer the question (yeah I'm referring to the big block of green text above). I just wonder if there's anyway around getting donations for hosting and still offering it as a free service, while not having to pay CCP.
I understand that side of the issues dilemma, yet I also understand CCP's. It's really a catch 22 for those who are taking donations it seems. Which is questionable and surely CCP would have to see that for what it is, donations do not equal to profit.
In the past CCP has tended to back out of issues that caused this much animosity. Maybe they'll compromise with them, the again maybe they won't.
I agree only those actually charging for the service should be charged by CCP.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
donations don't equal profit.... so their not donating money then.... riiiiight...