I will toss my hat into the ring here and agree with posters that content NEEDS to start responding to the number of party members entering the quest and not be static.
This is NOT new tech it has been around since Everquest and maybe before ? There should be some cap on party size to be sure, large party size for Raid content and say up to 12 for non-raid party Questing ..
It would be cool to have Quests modify depending on party make up .. with any party able to complete the quest but possibly miss some Content with a narrow focus group. A well balanced party would be able to FIND more things to do and explore in a Quest instance then a Narrow focus group would .. BOTH would be able to complete the quest and no Penalty would be given to the Narrow focus party but they would be missing out on some of the content by the lack of abilitys the Diverse Group brought to the table.
To get to the orginal Posters question of is 4 enough in a party ? I would say that it depends on what the class make up is like in the game .. if your able to have say DPS Nuke with heals >>? Dps Fighter with Tanking ? Rogue with Heals ? Cleric type with DPS ? It all depends on if that 4 person party is able to function as well as the old standard of 6 peeps in a party.
There are times I feel the 6 person party is too small .. we have 8 friends that would all like to join in on the Quest but saddly only 6 can .. 2 are left out always or rotated into the party on a second run thru. That is why I vote with the larger single Party and have the Dungeon / Quest Instance/ event Scale and modify with the size and Make up of the party ...
Heavy Fighter base >? Mobs get more agility and hit points do more damage maybe ... wizzy heavy party ? mobs get some more range ability and spell resistance, Rogue heavy and the traps get harder and more frequent ... more locked chests or secret entrances to find ... The game has to be a challenge to be fun ... just some thoughts there.
It could be done .. though I would not want to be the one trying to code and balance that.
I would however LOVE to play in a game where that all happens.
From what I have seen in most games today, content responding to the number of players on a team is pretty much a standard in most games. Heck, it has been for a while. I have to agree it would be nice to see it responding to the type of members on the team as well, but I don't think that would be very do-able one the coding side. Too many variables. As for upping the team size, I would like to see more than a 4 man max, but I think 8 is too high. 5 or 6 might be the better number and would allow for a greater degree of difficulty if you used more companions to fill out a team, while not killing the social aspect of the game.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
One of the biggest attractions of an MMO is that I get to play with my friends and make new ones. Now, with groups of only 4 people I will not be able to play with my friends at the same time. There are six of us "RL" friends if you will, that will be playing from launch. I find it very frustrating if two of us are going to be left out of the main content becasue the group is only 4 people. Now we can join up later and play the bigger "raid" type instances but the whole point is to go through the game together. Now some might argue that you can sit in vent together and its the same thing, but it would simply be like playing Black Ops in different games but sitting in party chat. Where is the fun in that, you want to be able to play with the one your talking to so that you can all experiance the game together.
I can't be sure about it, but regarding the problem I can imagine that you'll be able to form raid formations like in other MMO's. You won't be able to do 1-team instances like that, but you can do Heroic Quests and group PvE content like that, of which there's enough abundance to keep you entertained and leveling.
Originally posted by Drakxii
4 is too small. You think it's hard to get in a group at high level as a dps in games like WoW and Rift just wait till they need less DPS.
Even more, they won't even need healers or tanks to form viable groups, all kinds of team setups will be possible.
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Maybe BioWare, being the kings of the nerds, couldn't imagine a scenario where anybody actually had more than 3 friends. Maybe they should implement different servers:
1) "Normal" Server (aka Galaxy o' Nerds) where nobody has more than 3 friends
Hey, but what about if someone has six friends and guildies he wants to play with, or more?! Fuck it, every MMO is doing it wrong, we need 10 and 12-size groups as minimal groups!
Are you guys telling me that you can go on to a Flashpoint without a tank? Without a healer? No, you can't. So unless companions are good enough to fill those roles, having groups of 4 will only make wait times worse, because then you need a healer and tank for every 2 DPS, instead of 3 DPS.
Actually the devs stated that you can. It would be more challenging, but still workable.
Originally posted by X-Apocalypse
Hey SWG had 20 at one time lol
Heh, yeah, probably. But I don't suppose that was the normal or minimum size for a group.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
4 is too small. You think it's hard to get in a group at high level as a dps in games like WoW and Rift just wait till they need less DPS.
Even more, they won't even need healers or tanks to form viable groups, all kinds of team setups will be possible.
Don't believe it. I have seen them say that for the lower level instances you can use follower in place of a player but it will get harder. I haven't seen them say that you don't need heals and tanks for high end instances/raid, but if they did this game is fail.
Imo there is nothing worse then a class game without the DPS, Heals, and Tanks. You lose all tactics as the majority of players want to go as fast a possible, which means that if you can do it with just DPS your expected to do with just DPS no matter how much someone might want to CC, heal or tank.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Don't believe it. I have seen them say that for the lower level instances you can use follower in place of a player but it will get harder. I haven't seen them say that you don't need heals and tanks for high end instances/raid, but if they did this game is fail.
Imo there is nothing worse then a class game without the DPS, Heals, and Tanks. You lose all tactics as the majority of players want to go as fast a possible, which means that if you can do it with just DPS your expected to do with just DPS no matter how much someone might want to CC, heal or tank.
Shrug. Whatever mate, choose what you want to believe. I've been in MMO's and played in groups where we did exactly that, with no dedicated healer or no dedicated tank around and still everyone had their place and function(s) in the team. YMMV though.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
With 4 people I guess the dpsers will actually have to start listening to the tank and healer again about having patience and doing it right instead of just mindlessly zerging everything for epics.
4 is too small. You think it's hard to get in a group at high level as a dps in games like WoW and Rift just wait till they need less DPS.
Even more, they won't even need healers or tanks to form viable groups, all kinds of team setups will be possible.
Don't believe it. I have seen them say that for the lower level instances you can use follower in place of a player but it will get harder. I haven't seen them say that you don't need heals and tanks for high end instances/raid, but if they did this game is fail.
Imo there is nothing worse then a class game without the DPS, Heals, and Tanks. You lose all tactics as the majority of players want to go as fast a possible, which means that if you can do it with just DPS your expected to do with just DPS no matter how much someone might want to CC, heal or tank.
So let me get this straight, you WANT the "Holy Trinity" to stay in the game? That is a new one. I personally couldn't care less about the holy trinity (since I tend to play multi-purpose toons), but I had thought everyone wanted to see that system die a horrible death.
As for your "fail" opinion, just keep in mind that is your opinion, I think it would be great.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I think no raid should be ever larger then 10 man in any game, more is simply silly and a mess. Im ok with 4, meaning every member simply count much more.
4 is too small. You think it's hard to get in a group at high level as a dps in games like WoW and Rift just wait till they need less DPS.
Even more, they won't even need healers or tanks to form viable groups, all kinds of team setups will be possible.
Don't believe it. I have seen them say that for the lower level instances you can use follower in place of a player but it will get harder. I haven't seen them say that you don't need heals and tanks for high end instances/raid, but if they did this game is fail.
Imo there is nothing worse then a class game without the DPS, Heals, and Tanks. You lose all tactics as the majority of players want to go as fast a possible, which means that if you can do it with just DPS your expected to do with just DPS no matter how much someone might want to CC, heal or tank.
So let me get this straight, you WANT the "Holy Trinity" to stay in the game? That is a new one. I personally couldn't care less about the holy trinity (since I tend to play multi-purpose toons), but I had thought everyone wanted to see that system die a horrible death.
As for your "fail" opinion, just keep in mind that is your opinion, I think it would be great.
Yep. I like tanking, I like DPSing, and I like being a CCer. I have played games where there isn't the "Holy Trinity" all it does it make everyone the game and kills any tactics in combat. If don't believe check out STO, there anit any holy trinity in that game and it's one of the reasons that the game sucked.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
The 4 base classes / faction support it and I think smaller groups are also simply better to get social interaction out of people.
Interpersonal communication gets jammed when you pack a lot of random people together: any more than 3-4 and you get a lot of people who are left out of the communication while a couple are doing all the talking.
You can simply observe this when sitting together around a campfire: either a couple of people are talking and the rest is shutting up, or small groups form to talk to each other. Big groups don't allow people to communicate at the same time, it gets too confusing and you get in each others way.
6+ is way too much.
True dat
Karasu Linkshell for Final fantasy 14 now accepting all members! Just head on over to karasuls.shivtr.com and apply now! Linkshell info is on the site.
I think no raid should be ever larger then 10 man in any game, more is simply silly and a mess. Im ok with 4, meaning every member simply count much more.
I think no raid should be less than everyone on the server. That would be epic. I would love to see hundreds of players all working toward the same goal instead of remaining cut off in their own small little sections.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Personally I'm looking forward to the smaller party size. I feel too much time is used up looking for parties in most of the current mmos. Also in response to what the OP said about 25% have to be tanks and 25% have to be healers, I believe I saw an interview where a developer explained that companions can fulfill group roles as well e.g. 3 players are rolling dps and 1 player is a tank so all the players bring their healer companions and it's all good. If the latter is true then I will greatly enjoy the group design of SW TOR as matching up the right roles in parties is a pain in other mmos at the moment.
4 is too small. You think it's hard to get in a group at high level as a dps in games like WoW and Rift just wait till they need less DPS.
Even more, they won't even need healers or tanks to form viable groups, all kinds of team setups will be possible.
Don't believe it. I have seen them say that for the lower level instances you can use follower in place of a player but it will get harder. I haven't seen them say that you don't need heals and tanks for high end instances/raid, but if they did this game is fail.
Imo there is nothing worse then a class game without the DPS, Heals, and Tanks. You lose all tactics as the majority of players want to go as fast a possible, which means that if you can do it with just DPS your expected to do with just DPS no matter how much someone might want to CC, heal or tank.
So let me get this straight, you WANT the "Holy Trinity" to stay in the game? That is a new one. I personally couldn't care less about the holy trinity (since I tend to play multi-purpose toons), but I had thought everyone wanted to see that system die a horrible death.
As for your "fail" opinion, just keep in mind that is your opinion, I think it would be great.
Yep. I like tanking, I like DPSing, and I like being a CCer. I have played games where there isn't the "Holy Trinity" all it does it make everyone the game and kills any tactics in combat. If don't believe check out STO, there anit any holy trinity in that game and it's one of the reasons that the game sucked.
My experience is the opposite. Since you don't have a dedicated Tank, then people have to be more careful on the multi-purpose toons or they die pretty quick. This leads to MORE cooperation and tactics. With no dedicated healer it only reinforces the tactics as well since self heals tend to be "not quite" enough for a larger boss fight. This is most true for teams of friends that know how each other plays the game, a little less so for PUGs.
Now I will admit that tactics do seem to fly out the window if you have either a dedicated tank OR a healer on a team and all the other members are multi-purpose toons. Then for some reason everyone thinks they can do everything and mayhem ensues. That can be fun for the multi-toons, but the person playing a dedicated healer at least tends to get griefed a lot because they can't keep up with everyone else's stupidity.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I think no raid should be ever larger then 10 man in any game, more is simply silly and a mess. Im ok with 4, meaning every member simply count much more.
I think no raid should be less than everyone on the server. That would be epic. I would love to see hundreds of players all working toward the same goal instead of remaining cut off in their own small little sections.
I've watched a couple battles like this while a friend of mine was playing Eve a few years back. It came down to queing a couple attacks and then waiting two or three minutes for the lag to clear up and see how the battle went. Not much fun at all in my opinion.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
4 is too small. You think it's hard to get in a group at high level as a dps in games like WoW and Rift just wait till they need less DPS.
Even more, they won't even need healers or tanks to form viable groups, all kinds of team setups will be possible.
Don't believe it. I have seen them say that for the lower level instances you can use follower in place of a player but it will get harder. I haven't seen them say that you don't need heals and tanks for high end instances/raid, but if they did this game is fail.
Imo there is nothing worse then a class game without the DPS, Heals, and Tanks. You lose all tactics as the majority of players want to go as fast a possible, which means that if you can do it with just DPS your expected to do with just DPS no matter how much someone might want to CC, heal or tank.
So let me get this straight, you WANT the "Holy Trinity" to stay in the game? That is a new one. I personally couldn't care less about the holy trinity (since I tend to play multi-purpose toons), but I had thought everyone wanted to see that system die a horrible death.
As for your "fail" opinion, just keep in mind that is your opinion, I think it would be great.
Yep. I like tanking, I like DPSing, and I like being a CCer. I have played games where there isn't the "Holy Trinity" all it does it make everyone the game and kills any tactics in combat. If don't believe check out STO, there anit any holy trinity in that game and it's one of the reasons that the game sucked.
My experience is the opposite. Since you don't have a dedicated Tank, then people have to be more careful on the multi-purpose toons or they die pretty quick. This leads to MORE cooperation and tactics. With no dedicated healer it only reinforces the tactics as well since self heals tend to be "not quite" enough for a larger boss fight. This is most true for teams of friends that know how each other plays the game, a little less so for PUGs.
Now I will admit that tactics do seem to fly out the window if you have either a dedicated tank OR a healer on a team and all the other members are multi-purpose toons. Then for some reason everyone thinks they can do everything and mayhem ensues. That can be fun for the multi-toons, but the person playing a dedicated healer at least tends to get griefed a lot because they can't keep up with everyone else's stupidity.
that also would mean the boss fights would be far less difficult then normally, plus jedi conselour can have full time healing powers, like it was show before, and jedi guardian/trooper the tanks
I think no raid should be ever larger then 10 man in any game, more is simply silly and a mess. Im ok with 4, meaning every member simply count much more.
I think no raid should be less than everyone on the server. That would be epic. I would love to see hundreds of players all working toward the same goal instead of remaining cut off in their own small little sections.
I've watched a couple battles like this while a friend of mine was playing Eve a few years back. It came down to queing a couple attacks and then waiting two or three minutes for the lag to clear up and see how the battle went. Not much fun at all in my opinion.
Not much fun because of the developers technical capabilities? What if the lag was not there and the action was swift instead of queing up attacks? Planetside.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
The real issue with the party size is not (IMHO) with party balance. I'm sure if they designed the game around a standard party size of 4 it will play just fine with 4 players. The real problem is that it simply reduces the amount of social interaction you have with other players. A large part of the fun with MMO's is getting together with other players to do content. If the maximum party size is 4 rather then 5, 6 or 8....that simply means fewer people that you'll be able to spend your time with while doing regular quests. Especialy true if they make significant use of instances, which they do.
Although, I'm sure they'll have some raids which accomodate larger groups, having 4 as the standard party size does have an effect on the social aspects of the game.
For me it's too small. I have a group of friends I play with and this will mean much of the time we'll be playing in split groups, where's the fun in that?
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
The real issue with the party size is not (IMHO) with party balance. I'm sure if they designed the game around a standard party size of 4 it will play just fine with 4 players. The real problem is that it simply reduces the amount of social interaction you have with other players. A large part of the fun with MMO's is getting together with other players to do content. If the maximum party size is 4 rather then 5, 6 or 8....that simply means fewer people that you'll be able to spend your time with while doing regular quests. Especialy true if they make significant use of instances, which they do.
Although, I'm sure they'll have some raids which accomodate larger groups, having 4 as the standard party size does have an effect on the social aspects of the game.
There's one thing that has been suggested by the devs, for larger groups you can start raid parties to tackle things in the open world. They didn't exactly say how many can be in a raid party however.
IMO though, social players will be social, those who aren't will not. Just by looking at the TOR board you can see there are quite a few players coming from SWG. This lot will be social I'd bet money on that. If you look at the section for SWg vets, you'll see they for the most part are carrying over their community ideal. Alliances and rivalries this is what made SWG such a social environment, as well as lead to such a great community.
I guess for those who were never part of a gaming community like SWG's things may be different when joining a game like TOR. However for those like me, who know a large chunk of the players who will be playing. Social activity is of no concern. As I know I'll find plenty of it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Sounds like you didnt bother to read much about SWTOR, The idea is that while you can specialize in a tanking role or a healing role, you are still able to contribute to the fight in other areas. From the information that has been released thus far, Healers can still deal damage, although not as much as if they went into the advanced class suited for that, and same goes for the other roles.
Does that really matter? If players can COMPLETELY focus on one aspect of the trinity wouldn't it be likely that groups will go for tight specialization, since that would make fights more organized?
Organized hehe; This is a game this has been designed so all can chip in..... great approach by Bioware they have got it....
Shame you don't like their design a bit sad. I love the way they are developing this game and the approach to groups they have the size spot on great for tactical gameplay.....
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
The real issue with the party size is not (IMHO) with party balance. I'm sure if they designed the game around a standard party size of 4 it will play just fine with 4 players. The real problem is that it simply reduces the amount of social interaction you have with other players. A large part of the fun with MMO's is getting together with other players to do content. If the maximum party size is 4 rather then 5, 6 or 8....that simply means fewer people that you'll be able to spend your time with while doing regular quests. Especialy true if they make significant use of instances, which they do.
Although, I'm sure they'll have some raids which accomodate larger groups, having 4 as the standard party size does have an effect on the social aspects of the game.
If you like larger party sizes go do elements of the game that require it. The game is optimised for 4 players because that is more tactical and means the game wil not just turn into whack a molle no game.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I think no raid should be ever larger then 10 man in any game, more is simply silly and a mess. Im ok with 4, meaning every member simply count much more.
I think no raid should be less than everyone on the server. That would be epic. I would love to see hundreds of players all working toward the same goal instead of remaining cut off in their own small little sections.
I've watched a couple battles like this while a friend of mine was playing Eve a few years back. It came down to queing a couple attacks and then waiting two or three minutes for the lag to clear up and see how the battle went. Not much fun at all in my opinion.
Not much fun because of the developers technical capabilities? What if the lag was not there and the action was swift instead of queing up attacks? Planetside.
The problem with battles on this scale is the server lag, not the internet lag. I agree it would be fun if you could have a huge battle like this, I just don't see it as happening unless the server capabilities have taken a GIGANTIC leap forward and whatever developer is only using the newest and best servers that money can buy. Honestly, I hope I am wrong and someone could pull this off.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Eve actually has one of the most advanced servers in the world o.o The main reason yo usee server lag with the fleet battles are because of ,previously, pythons multithreading. They have upgraded it since to be able to multithread better for incarnia and the other more important part which lags the server : Angular Velocity
Unlike other games which uses set states for hit and miss or even ray tracing, EVE actually has to calculate angular velocity to decide the % chance of hitting another ship. And thats just for turrets and drones. There are also missile type weapons which has to calculate relative velocity (which is a lot easier than angular but w/e) so yah o.o
Its hardly fair to blame EVE lag when the server has to rapidly calculate how fast the things are moving around every target each ship has o.o
But yes, if EVE didnt use angular velocity and used simple equations for their hit count then youd be lagging a lot less o.o
Now in terms of 4 people being too small, Whatever.
There are going to be raids in the game and there wlil be open world large group areas so its not really THAT bad compared to other themepark games. o.o
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
I think 4 is fine. Actually its one of the things I like about this title. At least for the PvE events, I think 4 is the max. I think they sorta want players to have a chance at interacting when on story missons. I don't think more is nessasary, I do hope they have a larger form of PVP grouping in the battlefronts. I was alway fond of the Alterac Valley PvP map in WoW back when I was going for High Warlord. If it wasn't for that map I would have never been able to stomach all the PvP it took to reach HW. I like the battle before they nerf and took out all the NPCs. I still cannot believe I was in a 9 hour long Alterac Valley match. And that wasn't even the longest that I had heard of. I heard they had some that were going a full day.(dont know if that was true).
Anyway I think for is fine for the setting. I do wish they have more players for PVP and its not just 4 on 4, I know they have raids and such but I never been much of a raider.
Comments
From what I have seen in most games today, content responding to the number of players on a team is pretty much a standard in most games. Heck, it has been for a while. I have to agree it would be nice to see it responding to the type of members on the team as well, but I don't think that would be very do-able one the coding side. Too many variables. As for upping the team size, I would like to see more than a 4 man max, but I think 8 is too high. 5 or 6 might be the better number and would allow for a greater degree of difficulty if you used more companions to fill out a team, while not killing the social aspect of the game.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Hey SWG had 20 at one time lol
Actually the devs stated that you can. It would be more challenging, but still workable.
Heh, yeah, probably. But I don't suppose that was the normal or minimum size for a group.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Don't believe it. I have seen them say that for the lower level instances you can use follower in place of a player but it will get harder. I haven't seen them say that you don't need heals and tanks for high end instances/raid, but if they did this game is fail.
Imo there is nothing worse then a class game without the DPS, Heals, and Tanks. You lose all tactics as the majority of players want to go as fast a possible, which means that if you can do it with just DPS your expected to do with just DPS no matter how much someone might want to CC, heal or tank.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Shrug. Whatever mate, choose what you want to believe. I've been in MMO's and played in groups where we did exactly that, with no dedicated healer or no dedicated tank around and still everyone had their place and function(s) in the team. YMMV though.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
With 4 people I guess the dpsers will actually have to start listening to the tank and healer again about having patience and doing it right instead of just mindlessly zerging everything for epics.
So let me get this straight, you WANT the "Holy Trinity" to stay in the game? That is a new one. I personally couldn't care less about the holy trinity (since I tend to play multi-purpose toons), but I had thought everyone wanted to see that system die a horrible death.
As for your "fail" opinion, just keep in mind that is your opinion, I think it would be great.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I think no raid should be ever larger then 10 man in any game, more is simply silly and a mess. Im ok with 4, meaning every member simply count much more.
Yep. I like tanking, I like DPSing, and I like being a CCer. I have played games where there isn't the "Holy Trinity" all it does it make everyone the game and kills any tactics in combat. If don't believe check out STO, there anit any holy trinity in that game and it's one of the reasons that the game sucked.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
True dat
Karasu Linkshell for Final fantasy 14 now accepting all members! Just head on over to karasuls.shivtr.com and apply now! Linkshell info is on the site.
I think no raid should be less than everyone on the server. That would be epic. I would love to see hundreds of players all working toward the same goal instead of remaining cut off in their own small little sections.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Personally I'm looking forward to the smaller party size. I feel too much time is used up looking for parties in most of the current mmos. Also in response to what the OP said about 25% have to be tanks and 25% have to be healers, I believe I saw an interview where a developer explained that companions can fulfill group roles as well e.g. 3 players are rolling dps and 1 player is a tank so all the players bring their healer companions and it's all good. If the latter is true then I will greatly enjoy the group design of SW TOR as matching up the right roles in parties is a pain in other mmos at the moment.
My experience is the opposite. Since you don't have a dedicated Tank, then people have to be more careful on the multi-purpose toons or they die pretty quick. This leads to MORE cooperation and tactics. With no dedicated healer it only reinforces the tactics as well since self heals tend to be "not quite" enough for a larger boss fight. This is most true for teams of friends that know how each other plays the game, a little less so for PUGs.
Now I will admit that tactics do seem to fly out the window if you have either a dedicated tank OR a healer on a team and all the other members are multi-purpose toons. Then for some reason everyone thinks they can do everything and mayhem ensues. That can be fun for the multi-toons, but the person playing a dedicated healer at least tends to get griefed a lot because they can't keep up with everyone else's stupidity.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I've watched a couple battles like this while a friend of mine was playing Eve a few years back. It came down to queing a couple attacks and then waiting two or three minutes for the lag to clear up and see how the battle went. Not much fun at all in my opinion.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
that also would mean the boss fights would be far less difficult then normally, plus jedi conselour can have full time healing powers, like it was show before, and jedi guardian/trooper the tanks
Not much fun because of the developers technical capabilities? What if the lag was not there and the action was swift instead of queing up attacks? Planetside.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
The real issue with the party size is not (IMHO) with party balance. I'm sure if they designed the game around a standard party size of 4 it will play just fine with 4 players. The real problem is that it simply reduces the amount of social interaction you have with other players. A large part of the fun with MMO's is getting together with other players to do content. If the maximum party size is 4 rather then 5, 6 or 8....that simply means fewer people that you'll be able to spend your time with while doing regular quests. Especialy true if they make significant use of instances, which they do.
Although, I'm sure they'll have some raids which accomodate larger groups, having 4 as the standard party size does have an effect on the social aspects of the game.
For me it's too small. I have a group of friends I play with and this will mean much of the time we'll be playing in split groups, where's the fun in that?
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
There's one thing that has been suggested by the devs, for larger groups you can start raid parties to tackle things in the open world. They didn't exactly say how many can be in a raid party however.
IMO though, social players will be social, those who aren't will not. Just by looking at the TOR board you can see there are quite a few players coming from SWG. This lot will be social I'd bet money on that. If you look at the section for SWg vets, you'll see they for the most part are carrying over their community ideal. Alliances and rivalries this is what made SWG such a social environment, as well as lead to such a great community.
I guess for those who were never part of a gaming community like SWG's things may be different when joining a game like TOR. However for those like me, who know a large chunk of the players who will be playing. Social activity is of no concern. As I know I'll find plenty of it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For the most part it almost seemed that the 4 man parties are mostly for the Flashpoints, most likely something to do with balancing and companions.
It would be great if you can form warband type groups when in the main world in order to complete quests, PvP, etc etc.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
Organized hehe; This is a game this has been designed so all can chip in..... great approach by Bioware they have got it....
Shame you don't like their design a bit sad. I love the way they are developing this game and the approach to groups they have the size spot on great for tactical gameplay.....
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
If you like larger party sizes go do elements of the game that require it. The game is optimised for 4 players because that is more tactical and means the game wil not just turn into whack a molle no game.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
The problem with battles on this scale is the server lag, not the internet lag. I agree it would be fun if you could have a huge battle like this, I just don't see it as happening unless the server capabilities have taken a GIGANTIC leap forward and whatever developer is only using the newest and best servers that money can buy. Honestly, I hope I am wrong and someone could pull this off.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Eve actually has one of the most advanced servers in the world o.o The main reason yo usee server lag with the fleet battles are because of ,previously, pythons multithreading. They have upgraded it since to be able to multithread better for incarnia and the other more important part which lags the server : Angular Velocity
Unlike other games which uses set states for hit and miss or even ray tracing, EVE actually has to calculate angular velocity to decide the % chance of hitting another ship. And thats just for turrets and drones. There are also missile type weapons which has to calculate relative velocity (which is a lot easier than angular but w/e) so yah o.o
Its hardly fair to blame EVE lag when the server has to rapidly calculate how fast the things are moving around every target each ship has o.o
But yes, if EVE didnt use angular velocity and used simple equations for their hit count then youd be lagging a lot less o.o
Now in terms of 4 people being too small, Whatever.
There are going to be raids in the game and there wlil be open world large group areas so its not really THAT bad compared to other themepark games. o.o
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I think 4 is fine. Actually its one of the things I like about this title. At least for the PvE events, I think 4 is the max. I think they sorta want players to have a chance at interacting when on story missons. I don't think more is nessasary, I do hope they have a larger form of PVP grouping in the battlefronts. I was alway fond of the Alterac Valley PvP map in WoW back when I was going for High Warlord. If it wasn't for that map I would have never been able to stomach all the PvP it took to reach HW. I like the battle before they nerf and took out all the NPCs. I still cannot believe I was in a 9 hour long Alterac Valley match. And that wasn't even the longest that I had heard of. I heard they had some that were going a full day.(dont know if that was true).
Anyway I think for is fine for the setting. I do wish they have more players for PVP and its not just 4 on 4, I know they have raids and such but I never been much of a raider.