It's because of an internal document that was leaked, which CCP admitted was real.
Basically the document gave strong tones of CCP viewing customers as little more than money to be harvested, and their plans to add more invasive micro transactions to the measure of actual ships, equipment and potentially even faction standing... which would kind of undermind the whole 'player sandbox' point to the game.
Yes, but is it game update that's set in stone or are they just exploring possible ventures? I mean, isn't it a bit early to conclude the worst even before things are even presented as real updates?
After all, it seems that CCP has been doing some great updates over all those years, enough to provide a compelling game, if they really were so bad as some now seem to make them to be, they wouldn't have been able to make such fun improvements to the already engaging gameplay over the years, right?
To use an analogy, it sounds to me like as if irl your partner was talking about someone at her/his work enthusiastically, and people act like their partner has already committed adultery and having an affair.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I thought that was very well done. I particularly enjoyed: "Our relationship had always been about mutual benefits but at least it had the semblance of commitment. No longer.
You have decided to go chase other kinds of players, the sort with an attention span of a gnat and intellect to match. These guys might wow you with their bulging wallets but - I think you’ll find - they don’t love you for who you are. They won’t help you build worlds. They won’t inspire you, or be inspired by you. They’re not me."
Brilliant stuff that sums up my feelings on this ridiculous fiasco.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Originally posted by Thomas2006 Because the internal newsletter that was used for brainstorming is entirely set in stone and is the word of god and can NEVER change.
Heavens forbid a company where hundreds of people WORK want to make money to pay there employees and finance future projects.
Two things.
Firstly, yes, that is their planning. As they confirmed, that is exactly their planning. They even already set it in motion and executed it. That's as close as you can get to set in stone in an mmo.
Secondly, the economics are questionable at best. The validity of destabilizing the only income source of a 600 employee corporation has been so thoroughly questioned in fact, that people are leaving the ship.
You know, quite a few people who play Eve do have a good idea of economics. Some of them have their own company in real life. They are horrified by what CCP is doing.
Their revealed dedication to make EVE a complete cash-shop fest (and for not just vanity items) with apparently ridiculous pricing (in a sub-based, sandbox game). Read up on the internal newsletter leak thread if you haven't.
Personally I was never opposed to either Incarna or Dust. So yeah, for me this was kind of a shocker.
Because the internal newsletter that was used for brainstorming is entirely set in stone and is the word of god and can NEVER change.
Heavens forbid a company where hundreds of people WORK want to make money to pay there employees and finance future projects.
You missed the orange part and went all dramatic. I have nothing against companies making a profit.
But yeah, I hope the following quotes are not set in stone, (but they sure don't read like bits of a brainstorm session, they are more like statements; the decision makers informing the rest of the CCP employees):
WoD: "...there are three main areas that virtual goods sales will focus on in the game: cosmetics, items of convenience and items of power."
"One other service we're looking at is selling faction standings. We want to offer convenience"
"Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization, some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright."
"Thus we will not and cannot focus on virtual sales only within the Incarna evironment, nor build that evironment around such sales, rather we will effect a universal strategy of micro-sales throughout the EVe experience."
those 4 paragraphs should never be metioned in any kind of MMO (themepark or and specially sandbox) wether its brainstorming or actual decisions.
and what scares me the most is this
"rather we will effect a universal strategy of micro-sales throughout the EVe experience."
basically saying, on top of your monthly sub, it will be universal that you will spend more on micro sales to access the real eve experience.
I only see the news pop by from time to time, not playing EVE myself, but they added crew quarters and are planning to add other Incarna related features. It hardly seems like a mini-NGE to me, the rest of the gameplay seems to be left unharmed, so why this sudden uproar?
Because of some rumor that was about how some minor items that you can pay for with real cash would be added ingame? That's all? Or what's the big deal that has people in so much uproar?
Currently it is just some cosmetic items that nobody really cares about in the long run. Players might like to bitch about it, but they don't really give a crap about anything that doesn't affect their performance in space. Give it a few weeks and they'll find something more realistic to cry about.
That something being the RMTing of battleships, which itself probably won't be as big a deal after (if) it is worked in. Eve players seem to forget that many people who take shortcuts to obtain items that they don't have to work for (even if they have the SP to properly pilot it in this case) tend to be less attached to said items, and therefore less cautious with them. All I see is a temporary upsurge in trust fund frat kid types that will likely only end up burning through an excessive amount of RM to the point that they start to affect their ability to maintain a subscription. They wouldn't have an impact on the game world in the long run, and CCP benefits from their economic failure. Problem solves itself.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that all of this heavy MT use is the result of PLEX in Eve being a big money success. You know, because players take advantage of its convinience.
Yes, but is it game update that's set in stone or are they just exploring possible ventures? I mean, isn't it a bit early to conclude the worst even before things are even presented as real updates?
After all, it seems that CCP has been doing some great updates over all those years, enough to provide a compelling game, if they really were so bad as some now seem to make them to be, they wouldn't have been able to make such fun improvements to the already engaging gameplay over the years, right?
To use an analogy, it sounds to me like as if irl your partner was talking about someone at her/his work enthusiastically, and people act like their partner has already committed adultery and having an affair.
Maverick, CCP started this whole shebang with the assurance that only vanity items would be sold in the cash shop. We now know that CCP had every intention to not follow through with what they had said, and that they actually had plans to sell a hell of a lot more in the cash shop, including ships, equipment, ammunition etc.
It's by no means too early to come to negative conclusions. Sitting at idle on the edge with an ignorant air of optimism is not going to help the situation. That will only reinforce to CCP that they can actually get away with this BS.
As to your analogy, not even close. She's already got her hand around his fun pole and she aint lookin' back. CCP can no longer be trusted.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The guy proved his point about the morons invading the game with the first few responses to his goodbye post in regards to his use of RP and the credit card being cancelled, the twits couldn't grasp his meaning and thought literally, and thus gave him a hard time for it, shows the total lack of class and intelligience we see these days in social games.
However a classic way to leave a game behind that has disappointed a customer with it's changing market values.
It's because of an internal document that was leaked, which CCP admitted was real.
Basically the document gave strong tones of CCP viewing customers as little more than money to be harvested, and their plans to add more invasive micro transactions to the measure of actual ships, equipment and potentially even faction standing... which would kind of undermind the whole 'player sandbox' point to the game.
Yes, but is it game update that's set in stone or are they just exploring possible ventures? I mean, isn't it a bit early to conclude the worst even before things are even presented as real updates?
After all, it seems that CCP has been doing some great updates over all those years, enough to provide a compelling game, if they really were so bad as some now seem to make them to be, they wouldn't have been able to make such fun improvements to the already engaging gameplay over the years, right?
To use an analogy, it sounds to me like as if irl your partner was talking about someone at her/his work enthusiastically, and people act like their partner has already committed adultery and having an affair.
To further your anology, it's more close to one's partner was talking enthusiasticly about a co-worker, and then openly saying they've been considering leaving their partner for the co-worker because they have more money.
The fact that CCP is even considering what they are, enough to officially document it, is what's raising alarm bells. Usually if someone is even considering doing something that would be considered drastic, even if they don't go through with it, is typically a reflection of something being seriously amiss.
Maverick, CCP started this whole shebang with the assurance that only vanity items would be sold in the cash shop.
Actually, just a year ago CCP was vocal about there never being any MT ever in their subscription based cash cow.
That's a good point. I had forgotten about that.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Once I see in the patch notes that they are doing this then I will quit. Until then I will not worry about it.
If anyone did read the entire thing it said that the items that he is proposing is HIS OWN OPINION. Note that it is ONE PERSON'S OPINION. Not CCP as a whole, just one employee. Until CCP says yes this is what we have planned then yes I will not be playing EVE Online anymore. Since these micro transactions will mess up the economy and cause other problems.
Vanity items I don't care about, I saw the prices and shrugged but I don't need those items so it does not effect me. I can see why some people are upset over the prices because they might like those items for their character and the items are over priced. CCP gave a reason to doing it and I understand, but those prices need to be taken down a bit to actually be worth buying.
Games playing: Lotro,Fallen Earth,Star Trek Online. Games playing casually: CoX,Guild Wars,FFXIV,Champions Online,DDO. Games Played: WoW,DR,L2,RoM,FFXI,Earthrise,EQ2,DAoC,WAR,Rift,Alganon,EVE,G&H Rome Rising. Waiting for: Guild Wars 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic. PC Specs: Intel i7 990x 3.5ghz, 6gb ddr3 Ram,EVGA GTX 570 SC FTW,EVGA x58 Classified 4-way SLI MB, 2TB HDD 7200rpm, 60GB Intel SSD: OS Drive, Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, Westinghouse 21 in. 1680x1050.
Wondering if some new people didn't take over at CCP or something in the past year. Just hard to believe the devs of old would pull such a huge swerve suddenly.
I thought that was very well done. I particularly enjoyed: "Our relationship had always been about mutual benefits but at least it had the semblance of commitment. No longer.
You have decided to go chase other kinds of players, the sort with an attention span of a gnat and intellect to match. These guys might wow you with their bulging wallets but - I think you’ll find - they don’t love you for who you are. They won’t help you build worlds. They won’t inspire you, or be inspired by you. They’re not me."
Brilliant stuff that sums up my feelings on this ridiculous fiasco.
Originally posted by Cecropia
As to your analogy, not even close. She's already got her hand around his fun pole and she aint lookin' back. CCP can no longer be trusted.
Sorry, but it's actually this kind of attitude of intolerance and quickdraw generalising conclusions that makes me dislike and have no respect at all for sandbox fans, at least for those who show such attitude of which there are enough around.
To use that letter writer's own example: if it had been true love and dedication, they wouldn't be on the verge of leaving at the first sign of real trouble in the relationship as that letter writer intends to do.
Originally posted by gundamwing
Once I see in the patch notes that they are doing this then I will quit. Until then I will not worry about it.
If anyone did read the entire thing it said that the items that he is proposing is HIS OWN OPINION. Note that it is ONE PERSON'S OPINION. Not CCP as a whole, just one employee. Until CCP says yes this is what we have planned then yes I will not be playing EVE Online anymore. Since these micro transactions will mess up the economy and cause other problems.
This sounds to me like the more sensible approach, the 'let's hear the 2 sides of the story' before the auto-concluding begins. If it was truly what CCP intended to do, then you'll see it automatically in one of the updates. Furthermore, it sounds to me that it's a matter of waiting what the company as a whole has to say about it all.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Originally posted by gundamwing Once I see in the patch notes that they are doing this then I will quit. Until then I will not worry about it. If anyone did read the entire thing it said that the items that he is proposing is HIS OWN OPINION. Note that it is ONE PERSON'S OPINION. Not CCP as a whole, just one employee. Until CCP says yes this is what we have planned then yes I will not be playing EVE Online anymore. Since these micro transactions will mess up the economy and cause other problems. Vanity items I don't care about, I saw the prices and shrugged but I don't need those items so it does not effect me. I can see why some people are upset over the prices because they might like those items for their character and the items are over priced. CCP gave a reason to doing it and I understand, but those prices need to be taken down a bit to actually be worth buying.
You seem to be unfamiliar with how these things work, so I'll enlighten you. If you want to discuss, or even just convey, a controversial matter, it is common practice to use an argument between two sides to illustrate the matter. In such a discussion, the two people taking sides do not have to be of the same opinion, they're there to present a point of identification. In fact, if done in meatspace, it is beneficial if the two people representing the opposing sides to not actually share the opinion they're supposed to represent. It helps understanding and brings with it a reduction in emotionality.
So no, you're wrong. It's not one person's opinion. This is CCP informing their employees that MT and pay2win are going to happen and trying to tell them that it's the way it's supposed to be.
Scrolling down to the employee satisfaction survey results is all the more hilarious considering the content that comes before it.
I thought that was very well done. I particularly enjoyed: "Our relationship had always been about mutual benefits but at least it had the semblance of commitment. No longer.
You have decided to go chase other kinds of players, the sort with an attention span of a gnat and intellect to match. These guys might wow you with their bulging wallets but - I think you’ll find - they don’t love you for who you are. They won’t help you build worlds. They won’t inspire you, or be inspired by you. They’re not me."
Brilliant stuff that sums up my feelings on this ridiculous fiasco.
Originally posted by Cecropia
As to your analogy, not even close. She's already got her hand around his fun pole and she aint lookin' back. CCP can no longer be trusted.
Sorry, but it's actually this kind of attitude of intolerance and quickdraw generalising conclusions that makes me dislike and have no respect at all for sandbox fans, at least for those who show such attitude of which there are enough around.
To use that letter writer's own example: if it had been true love and dedication, they wouldn't be on the verge of leaving at the first sign of real trouble in the relationship as that letter writer intends to do.
Originally posted by gundamwing
Once I see in the patch notes that they are doing this then I will quit. Until then I will not worry about it.
If anyone did read the entire thing it said that the items that he is proposing is HIS OWN OPINION. Note that it is ONE PERSON'S OPINION. Not CCP as a whole, just one employee. Until CCP says yes this is what we have planned then yes I will not be playing EVE Online anymore. Since these micro transactions will mess up the economy and cause other problems.
This sounds to me like the more sensible approach, the 'let's hear the 2 sides of the story' before the auto-concluding begins. If it was truly what CCP intended to do, then you'll see it automatically in one of the updates. Furthermore, it sounds to me that it's a matter of waiting what the company as a whole has to say about it all.
Many players are expressing their opinion that they greatly dislike the idea of where CCP has clearly expressed interest in taking their business. Some of which are 'voting with their money' by canceling their subscriptions to get the point across that they aren't pleased.
You see them as being rash and over reacting. I see them as making a clear statement of where they don't want CCP to take the game.
It's thier choice what they do with their money, and if they no longer trust CCP as a developer, then it's fully within their right to no longer purchase from CCP. If CCP wants to keep their business, then they better prove they're trustworthy after they documented their own interest in fleecing players, even if the interest was fleeting.
Once I see in the patch notes that they are doing this then I will quit. Until then I will not worry about it.
If anyone did read the entire thing it said that the items that he is proposing is HIS OWN OPINION. Note that it is ONE PERSON'S OPINION. Not CCP as a whole, just one employee. Until CCP says yes this is what we have planned then yes I will not be playing EVE Online anymore. Since these micro transactions will mess up the economy and cause other problems.
Vanity items I don't care about, I saw the prices and shrugged but I don't need those items so it does not effect me. I can see why some people are upset over the prices because they might like those items for their character and the items are over priced. CCP gave a reason to doing it and I understand, but those prices need to be taken down a bit to actually be worth buying.
You seem to be unfamiliar with how these things work, so I'll enlighten you.
If you want to discuss, or even just convey, a controversial matter, it is common practice to use an argument between two sides to illustrate the matter.
In such a discussion, the two people taking sides do not have to be of the same opinion, they're there to present a point of identification. In fact, if done in meatspace, it is beneficial if the two people representing the opposing sides to not actually share the opinion they're supposed to represent. It helps understanding and brings with it a reduction in emotionality.
So no, you're wrong. It's not one person's opinion. This is CCP informing their employees that MT and pay2win are going to happen and trying to tell them that it's the way it's supposed to be.
Scrolling down to the employee satisfaction survey results is all the more hilarious considering the content that comes before it.
Thank you for that enlightening reply. /sarcasm
My point still stands, until I see CCP say that this is our plan for EVE Online then I will leave. Until then it is just one guy who came up with the idea to add those non vanity items into the game. The document on page 2 contains a disclaimer stating that the views presented are personal opinions and not company policies or decisions. So this is just "Fearless", the guy or girl who wrote it, saying that this is his/her opinion and or idea and it does not reflect what CCP as a whole are considering to add. Ideas always get passed around in companies even crazy ones, it does not mean that these micro transactions will happen.
According to this post http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536065 by CCP Pann, they should be getting around to answering the concerns tomorrow. So Like I said, until I hear from CCP Devs that yes we are considering this then I will no longer play EVE Online.
Games playing: Lotro,Fallen Earth,Star Trek Online. Games playing casually: CoX,Guild Wars,FFXIV,Champions Online,DDO. Games Played: WoW,DR,L2,RoM,FFXI,Earthrise,EQ2,DAoC,WAR,Rift,Alganon,EVE,G&H Rome Rising. Waiting for: Guild Wars 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic. PC Specs: Intel i7 990x 3.5ghz, 6gb ddr3 Ram,EVGA GTX 570 SC FTW,EVGA x58 Classified 4-way SLI MB, 2TB HDD 7200rpm, 60GB Intel SSD: OS Drive, Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, Westinghouse 21 in. 1680x1050.
Why would you trust CCP when they've already been caught lying? I wouldn't trust a single word from their management. Previously, I'd just question their ability to deliver, but not question their intend. This has changed.
Also, Fearless is their internal newsletter used to get the whole company on the same page. Similar to their kickstarts, but in written (printed) form. It is as official as you can get for internal memos.
Why would you trust CCP when they've already been caught lying?
I wouldn't trust a single word from their management. Previously, I'd just question their ability to deliver, but not question their intend. This has changed.
Also, Fearless is their internal newsletter used to get the whole company on the same page. Similar to their kickstarts, but in written (printed) form. It is as official as you can get for internal memos.
I have learned a long time back that companies rarley can keep their promises. For example: Fallen Earth said they would never consider a free to play model and yet they are going into a free to play/sub hybrid with a cash shop later this year.
It does not matter which company it is, be it gaming, banks, whatever, they all make promises and they will break promises. Companies lie to customers and even to their employees, unfortunatly that seems to be buisness as usual. The company I work for has been known to lie to its employees and even the jobs I had before were the same.
Which is why I can tolerate certain companies up to a certain point, because I expect them to fail on a promise. But with CCP, if they do come out and say yes this is our plan then I will take my leave. For now I will wait and see an official response from a CCP Dev/Rep.
EDIT: Just to add a comment for asking "Why trust CCP when they have been caught lying?". Did your parents tell you that Santa Clause is real, then later on in life you found out that he is some fictional character made up and he does not go around to peoples houses through the chimney and bring presents. Did you trust your parents ever again? How can you since they lied about Santa Clause.
Games playing: Lotro,Fallen Earth,Star Trek Online. Games playing casually: CoX,Guild Wars,FFXIV,Champions Online,DDO. Games Played: WoW,DR,L2,RoM,FFXI,Earthrise,EQ2,DAoC,WAR,Rift,Alganon,EVE,G&H Rome Rising. Waiting for: Guild Wars 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic. PC Specs: Intel i7 990x 3.5ghz, 6gb ddr3 Ram,EVGA GTX 570 SC FTW,EVGA x58 Classified 4-way SLI MB, 2TB HDD 7200rpm, 60GB Intel SSD: OS Drive, Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, Westinghouse 21 in. 1680x1050.
I haven't been following FE for too much, but weren't they basically taken over? I can fully understand if previous promises are broken because the people calling the shots are changed out. In a way, the same happened to CCP. The willingly gave themselves into the hands of venture capitalists and even hired a manager from citibank.
Wondering if some new people didn't take over at CCP or something in the past year. Just hard to believe the devs of old would pull such a huge swerve suddenly.
I was wondering the same thing. I wonder if the merger with White Wolf has anything to do with it. Who is calling the shots now at CCP for them to even consider this move?
I haven't been following FE for too much, but weren't they basically taken over?
I can fully understand if previous promises are broken because the people calling the shots are changed out.
In a way, the same happened to CCP. The willingly gave themselves into the hands of venture capitalists and even hired a manager from citibank.
Correct. I forgot to point out that they said that they want to be a indie company so that a larger company like EA will not call the shots on how to run their game. But now they are with gamersfirst and going to a free to play/sub hybrid. Icarus Studios said that gamersfirst will not be handeling the game it will still be Icarus Studios calling the shots, but that could always change. It might not but you never know.
Games playing: Lotro,Fallen Earth,Star Trek Online. Games playing casually: CoX,Guild Wars,FFXIV,Champions Online,DDO. Games Played: WoW,DR,L2,RoM,FFXI,Earthrise,EQ2,DAoC,WAR,Rift,Alganon,EVE,G&H Rome Rising. Waiting for: Guild Wars 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic. PC Specs: Intel i7 990x 3.5ghz, 6gb ddr3 Ram,EVGA GTX 570 SC FTW,EVGA x58 Classified 4-way SLI MB, 2TB HDD 7200rpm, 60GB Intel SSD: OS Drive, Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, Westinghouse 21 in. 1680x1050.
Once I see in the patch notes that they are doing this then I will quit. Until then I will not worry about it.
If anyone did read the entire thing it said that the items that he is proposing is HIS OWN OPINION. Note that it is ONE PERSON'S OPINION. Not CCP as a whole, just one employee. Until CCP says yes this is what we have planned then yes I will not be playing EVE Online anymore. Since these micro transactions will mess up the economy and cause other problems.
This sounds to me like the more sensible approach, the 'let's hear the 2 sides of the story' before the auto-concluding begins. If it was truly what CCP intended to do, then you'll see it automatically in one of the updates. Furthermore, it sounds to me that it's a matter of waiting what the company as a whole has to say about it all.
It's a bit late by that point, don't you think? I mean it's not a good idea to spring these sorts of things on the community, especially if you KNOW most of them are going to be dead set against it.
The problem is this is nothing new. This has been discussed many times in the past and CCP knows full well that the Eve community doesn't like the idea. Yet they still bring it up for serious discussion...not only that but it's implied by what's said that they've already made up their mind that this is going to happen, like it or not. It seems to me that in their arrogance they were convinced that the community would simply get used to the idea, but frankly I don't think that's true.
I'm all for a wait and see attitude to a certain extent, but when you hear something like this waiting until they actually implement it to voice your discontent is far too late. If they put it in odds are highly against them removing it. Isn't it wiser to speak up now BEFORE they actually go forward with the plan so that they are forewarned that it's very likely they will have a mass exodus on thier hands if they do?
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Originally posted by gundamwing Originally posted by batolemaeus I haven't been following FE for too much, but weren't they basically taken over? I can fully understand if previous promises are broken because the people calling the shots are changed out. In a way, the same happened to CCP. The willingly gave themselves into the hands of venture capitalists and even hired a manager from citibank.
Correct. I forgot to point out that they said that they want to be a indie company so that a larger company like EA will not call the shots on how to run their game. But now they are with gamersfirst and going to a free to play/sub hybrid. Icarus Studios said that gamersfirst will not be handeling the game it will still be Icarus Studios calling the shots, but that could always change. It might not but you never know.
While that does suck, I take it they weren't doing so well financially. I'm a lot more tolerable for MT and similar if the game behind it is struggling for survival or would if it weren't for the new approach. I mean, I'll be playing FE, probably. I'm playing wurm now. It's not that I categorically deny the validity of MT if done well and there's a good reason for it. Going f2p in a try to draw in more people and making profit through MT, for example, I can fully understand. MT and subscriptions, however, is just trying to rip people off.
Comments
Yes, but is it game update that's set in stone or are they just exploring possible ventures? I mean, isn't it a bit early to conclude the worst even before things are even presented as real updates?
After all, it seems that CCP has been doing some great updates over all those years, enough to provide a compelling game, if they really were so bad as some now seem to make them to be, they wouldn't have been able to make such fun improvements to the already engaging gameplay over the years, right?
To use an analogy, it sounds to me like as if irl your partner was talking about someone at her/his work enthusiastically, and people act like their partner has already committed adultery and having an affair.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I thought that was very well done. I particularly enjoyed: "Our relationship had always been about mutual benefits but at least it had the semblance of commitment. No longer.
You have decided to go chase other kinds of players, the sort with an attention span of a gnat and intellect to match. These guys might wow you with their bulging wallets but - I think you’ll find - they don’t love you for who you are. They won’t help you build worlds. They won’t inspire you, or be inspired by you. They’re not me."
Brilliant stuff that sums up my feelings on this ridiculous fiasco.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Two things.
Firstly, yes, that is their planning. As they confirmed, that is exactly their planning. They even already set it in motion and executed it.
That's as close as you can get to set in stone in an mmo.
Secondly, the economics are questionable at best. The validity of destabilizing the only income source of a 600 employee corporation has been so thoroughly questioned in fact, that people are leaving the ship.
You know, quite a few people who play Eve do have a good idea of economics. Some of them have their own company in real life. They are horrified by what CCP is doing.
those 4 paragraphs should never be metioned in any kind of MMO (themepark or and specially sandbox) wether its brainstorming or actual decisions.
and what scares me the most is this
"rather we will effect a universal strategy of micro-sales throughout the EVe experience."
basically saying, on top of your monthly sub, it will be universal that you will spend more on micro sales to access the real eve experience.
15$ will only let you log in
to play we need more money from you.
Currently it is just some cosmetic items that nobody really cares about in the long run. Players might like to bitch about it, but they don't really give a crap about anything that doesn't affect their performance in space. Give it a few weeks and they'll find something more realistic to cry about.
That something being the RMTing of battleships, which itself probably won't be as big a deal after (if) it is worked in. Eve players seem to forget that many people who take shortcuts to obtain items that they don't have to work for (even if they have the SP to properly pilot it in this case) tend to be less attached to said items, and therefore less cautious with them. All I see is a temporary upsurge in trust fund frat kid types that will likely only end up burning through an excessive amount of RM to the point that they start to affect their ability to maintain a subscription. They wouldn't have an impact on the game world in the long run, and CCP benefits from their economic failure. Problem solves itself.
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that all of this heavy MT use is the result of PLEX in Eve being a big money success. You know, because players take advantage of its convinience.
Maverick, CCP started this whole shebang with the assurance that only vanity items would be sold in the cash shop. We now know that CCP had every intention to not follow through with what they had said, and that they actually had plans to sell a hell of a lot more in the cash shop, including ships, equipment, ammunition etc.
It's by no means too early to come to negative conclusions. Sitting at idle on the edge with an ignorant air of optimism is not going to help the situation. That will only reinforce to CCP that they can actually get away with this BS.
As to your analogy, not even close. She's already got her hand around his fun pole and she aint lookin' back. CCP can no longer be trusted.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
The guy proved his point about the morons invading the game with the first few responses to his goodbye post in regards to his use of RP and the credit card being cancelled, the twits couldn't grasp his meaning and thought literally, and thus gave him a hard time for it, shows the total lack of class and intelligience we see these days in social games.
However a classic way to leave a game behind that has disappointed a customer with it's changing market values.
To further your anology, it's more close to one's partner was talking enthusiasticly about a co-worker, and then openly saying they've been considering leaving their partner for the co-worker because they have more money.
The fact that CCP is even considering what they are, enough to officially document it, is what's raising alarm bells. Usually if someone is even considering doing something that would be considered drastic, even if they don't go through with it, is typically a reflection of something being seriously amiss.
Actually, just a year ago CCP was vocal about there never being any MT ever in their subscription based cash cow.
That's a good point. I had forgotten about that.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Once I see in the patch notes that they are doing this then I will quit. Until then I will not worry about it.
If anyone did read the entire thing it said that the items that he is proposing is HIS OWN OPINION. Note that it is ONE PERSON'S OPINION. Not CCP as a whole, just one employee. Until CCP says yes this is what we have planned then yes I will not be playing EVE Online anymore. Since these micro transactions will mess up the economy and cause other problems.
Vanity items I don't care about, I saw the prices and shrugged but I don't need those items so it does not effect me. I can see why some people are upset over the prices because they might like those items for their character and the items are over priced. CCP gave a reason to doing it and I understand, but those prices need to be taken down a bit to actually be worth buying.
Games playing: Lotro,Fallen Earth,Star Trek Online.
Games playing casually: CoX,Guild Wars,FFXIV,Champions Online,DDO.
Games Played: WoW,DR,L2,RoM,FFXI,Earthrise,EQ2,DAoC,WAR,Rift,Alganon,EVE,G&H Rome Rising.
Waiting for: Guild Wars 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic.
PC Specs: Intel i7 990x 3.5ghz, 6gb ddr3 Ram,EVGA GTX 570 SC FTW,EVGA x58 Classified 4-way SLI MB, 2TB HDD 7200rpm, 60GB Intel SSD: OS Drive, Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, Westinghouse 21 in. 1680x1050.
Wondering if some new people didn't take over at CCP or something in the past year. Just hard to believe the devs of old would pull such a huge swerve suddenly.
Sorry, but it's actually this kind of attitude of intolerance and quickdraw generalising conclusions that makes me dislike and have no respect at all for sandbox fans, at least for those who show such attitude of which there are enough around.
To use that letter writer's own example: if it had been true love and dedication, they wouldn't be on the verge of leaving at the first sign of real trouble in the relationship as that letter writer intends to do.
This sounds to me like the more sensible approach, the 'let's hear the 2 sides of the story' before the auto-concluding begins. If it was truly what CCP intended to do, then you'll see it automatically in one of the updates. Furthermore, it sounds to me that it's a matter of waiting what the company as a whole has to say about it all.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You seem to be unfamiliar with how these things work, so I'll enlighten you.
If you want to discuss, or even just convey, a controversial matter, it is common practice to use an argument between two sides to illustrate the matter.
In such a discussion, the two people taking sides do not have to be of the same opinion, they're there to present a point of identification. In fact, if done in meatspace, it is beneficial if the two people representing the opposing sides to not actually share the opinion they're supposed to represent. It helps understanding and brings with it a reduction in emotionality.
So no, you're wrong. It's not one person's opinion. This is CCP informing their employees that MT and pay2win are going to happen and trying to tell them that it's the way it's supposed to be.
Scrolling down to the employee satisfaction survey results is all the more hilarious considering the content that comes before it.
Many players are expressing their opinion that they greatly dislike the idea of where CCP has clearly expressed interest in taking their business. Some of which are 'voting with their money' by canceling their subscriptions to get the point across that they aren't pleased.
You see them as being rash and over reacting. I see them as making a clear statement of where they don't want CCP to take the game.
It's thier choice what they do with their money, and if they no longer trust CCP as a developer, then it's fully within their right to no longer purchase from CCP. If CCP wants to keep their business, then they better prove they're trustworthy after they documented their own interest in fleecing players, even if the interest was fleeting.
Thank you for that enlightening reply. /sarcasm
My point still stands, until I see CCP say that this is our plan for EVE Online then I will leave. Until then it is just one guy who came up with the idea to add those non vanity items into the game. The document on page 2 contains a disclaimer stating that the views presented are personal opinions and not company policies or decisions. So this is just "Fearless", the guy or girl who wrote it, saying that this is his/her opinion and or idea and it does not reflect what CCP as a whole are considering to add. Ideas always get passed around in companies even crazy ones, it does not mean that these micro transactions will happen.
According to this post http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1536065 by CCP Pann, they should be getting around to answering the concerns tomorrow. So Like I said, until I hear from CCP Devs that yes we are considering this then I will no longer play EVE Online.
Games playing: Lotro,Fallen Earth,Star Trek Online.
Games playing casually: CoX,Guild Wars,FFXIV,Champions Online,DDO.
Games Played: WoW,DR,L2,RoM,FFXI,Earthrise,EQ2,DAoC,WAR,Rift,Alganon,EVE,G&H Rome Rising.
Waiting for: Guild Wars 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic.
PC Specs: Intel i7 990x 3.5ghz, 6gb ddr3 Ram,EVGA GTX 570 SC FTW,EVGA x58 Classified 4-way SLI MB, 2TB HDD 7200rpm, 60GB Intel SSD: OS Drive, Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, Westinghouse 21 in. 1680x1050.
Why would you trust CCP when they've already been caught lying?
I wouldn't trust a single word from their management. Previously, I'd just question their ability to deliver, but not question their intend. This has changed.
Also, Fearless is their internal newsletter used to get the whole company on the same page. Similar to their kickstarts, but in written (printed) form. It is as official as you can get for internal memos.
I have learned a long time back that companies rarley can keep their promises. For example: Fallen Earth said they would never consider a free to play model and yet they are going into a free to play/sub hybrid with a cash shop later this year.
It does not matter which company it is, be it gaming, banks, whatever, they all make promises and they will break promises. Companies lie to customers and even to their employees, unfortunatly that seems to be buisness as usual. The company I work for has been known to lie to its employees and even the jobs I had before were the same.
Which is why I can tolerate certain companies up to a certain point, because I expect them to fail on a promise. But with CCP, if they do come out and say yes this is our plan then I will take my leave. For now I will wait and see an official response from a CCP Dev/Rep.
EDIT: Just to add a comment for asking "Why trust CCP when they have been caught lying?". Did your parents tell you that Santa Clause is real, then later on in life you found out that he is some fictional character made up and he does not go around to peoples houses through the chimney and bring presents. Did you trust your parents ever again? How can you since they lied about Santa Clause.
Games playing: Lotro,Fallen Earth,Star Trek Online.
Games playing casually: CoX,Guild Wars,FFXIV,Champions Online,DDO.
Games Played: WoW,DR,L2,RoM,FFXI,Earthrise,EQ2,DAoC,WAR,Rift,Alganon,EVE,G&H Rome Rising.
Waiting for: Guild Wars 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic.
PC Specs: Intel i7 990x 3.5ghz, 6gb ddr3 Ram,EVGA GTX 570 SC FTW,EVGA x58 Classified 4-way SLI MB, 2TB HDD 7200rpm, 60GB Intel SSD: OS Drive, Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, Westinghouse 21 in. 1680x1050.
I haven't been following FE for too much, but weren't they basically taken over?
I can fully understand if previous promises are broken because the people calling the shots are changed out.
In a way, the same happened to CCP. The willingly gave themselves into the hands of venture capitalists and even hired a manager from citibank.
I was wondering the same thing. I wonder if the merger with White Wolf has anything to do with it. Who is calling the shots now at CCP for them to even consider this move?
Correct. I forgot to point out that they said that they want to be a indie company so that a larger company like EA will not call the shots on how to run their game. But now they are with gamersfirst and going to a free to play/sub hybrid. Icarus Studios said that gamersfirst will not be handeling the game it will still be Icarus Studios calling the shots, but that could always change. It might not but you never know.
Games playing: Lotro,Fallen Earth,Star Trek Online.
Games playing casually: CoX,Guild Wars,FFXIV,Champions Online,DDO.
Games Played: WoW,DR,L2,RoM,FFXI,Earthrise,EQ2,DAoC,WAR,Rift,Alganon,EVE,G&H Rome Rising.
Waiting for: Guild Wars 2 and Star Wars: The Old Republic.
PC Specs: Intel i7 990x 3.5ghz, 6gb ddr3 Ram,EVGA GTX 570 SC FTW,EVGA x58 Classified 4-way SLI MB, 2TB HDD 7200rpm, 60GB Intel SSD: OS Drive, Windows 7 Ultimate 64 bit, Westinghouse 21 in. 1680x1050.
It's a bit late by that point, don't you think? I mean it's not a good idea to spring these sorts of things on the community, especially if you KNOW most of them are going to be dead set against it.
The problem is this is nothing new. This has been discussed many times in the past and CCP knows full well that the Eve community doesn't like the idea. Yet they still bring it up for serious discussion...not only that but it's implied by what's said that they've already made up their mind that this is going to happen, like it or not. It seems to me that in their arrogance they were convinced that the community would simply get used to the idea, but frankly I don't think that's true.
I'm all for a wait and see attitude to a certain extent, but when you hear something like this waiting until they actually implement it to voice your discontent is far too late. If they put it in odds are highly against them removing it. Isn't it wiser to speak up now BEFORE they actually go forward with the plan so that they are forewarned that it's very likely they will have a mass exodus on thier hands if they do?
Eve is adding M.T. to their space and soon their space will be EMPTY. FreddyNoNose
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
While that does suck, I take it they weren't doing so well financially. I'm a lot more tolerable for MT and similar if the game behind it is struggling for survival or would if it weren't for the new approach. I mean, I'll be playing FE, probably. I'm playing wurm now. It's not that I categorically deny the validity of MT if done well and there's a good reason for it.
Going f2p in a try to draw in more people and making profit through MT, for example, I can fully understand.
MT and subscriptions, however, is just trying to rip people off.