Read the blog last night and watched the video. The idea to have a story dungeon is great i like it, i don't know if it will be repeatable, doesn't seam so, but still its nice.
The article definitely mentioned that you can repeat story mode if you so desired. I'm like the "read it properly" police right now.
But i'm kind of sad about their design for normal dungeons: "designed around organized groups". I mean thats the way dungoens are build now in 99% of the mmos, but since the game have no trinity i think its a kind of waste they still made them as if the trinity was still there.
The game has its own trinity and not the holy trinity don't get it twisted. Their own trinity of Control, Damage and Support.
Dungeons in old rpg games are open to all areas really, they were the place poeple will go to find other poeples to group up and go deeper in them as they group. In older rpg games the deeper you go the harder they are usually, and it fit perfectly with that. They shoudl really consider this as an option. Open up at least the first 1/3, and make it a place where poeple can go and meet to go further, thats my 2cents.
Read the blog last night and watched the video. The idea to have a story dungeon is great i like it, i don't know if it will be repeatable, doesn't seam so, but still its nice.
But i'm kind of sad about their design for normal dungeons: "designed around organized groups". I mean thats the way dungoens are build now in 99% of the mmos, but since the game have no trinity i think its a kind of waste they still made them as if the trinity was still there.
Dungeons in old rpg games are open to all areas really, they were the place poeple will go to find other poeples to group up and go deeper in them as they group. In older rpg games the deeper you go the harder they are usually, and it fit perfectly with that. They shoudl really consider this as an option. Open up at least the first 1/3, and make it a place where poeple can go and meet to go further, thats my 2cents.
Please note that GW2 did NOT abandon the trinity. They just made it more fluid, so no profession is locked into a specific role. All professions have the potential to fill out any role of the trinity, though some professions will be better at certain aspects of it.
Dungeon grind!!!! Nooooooooooooooooo >< Didn't they promise "no grind"?
I think if I can get all the loot by the time I've done all story related things from dungeon and have not received my complete loot then it's grind. Don't make me run dungeon over and over for the sake of loot.
Every MMO has grinding,it's a feature of every mmo and it will never change. It's all about finding that sweet spot that makes the grinding seem fun and less of a chore.
I disagree. The original GW had no grind, and I doubt GW2 will have either. You hit level max very fast and then proceeded with the story. The end. There was a lot of optional stuff, but you didnt _need_ any of it in order to complete the story or get to the end of the game.
...lol wait...What? No grind in GW? Gear is optional... There was TONS of grinding in GW1. There still is. Except instead of Bow of +10 because it's from a raid, you have Bow of +10 awesome looking from grinding.
You don't NEED to grind gear to get to the end level in most games. You may need to grind gear at end game to see more of the end game, sure. But saying there was no grinding in GW is silly.
It may be optional to do these dungeons again for different looking gear. But come on, looking different is the POINT of GW. It's a grind. Hey, I will do this grind. I like to look different and change things up. But I would still call it equal to the normal gear grind in that sense.
To get to level 35, the flat leveling line and the blog article said each level took about 90 minutes to get once you passed the initial levels, so even so after playing for a maximum of 52 hours, you should be allowed to enter a dungeon. Sounds like just enough time to figure out your character and learn how to use it without becoming frustrated at your first dungeon experience.
edit: And I believe there's enough content to keep you entertained for that time period.
But i'm kind of sad about their design for normal dungeons: "designed around organized groups". I mean thats the way dungoens are build now in 99% of the mmos, but since the game have no trinity i think its a kind of waste they still made them as if the trinity was still there.
I'm sorry but how does a dungeon being designed around organized groups mean its designed around the trinity. Did you know its possible to have orginization without unflexible roles?
After the trinity dungeons is all about LFG shooting in chats since you have to organize a group before going into them. Thats all i'm saying. It became a necessity because of the trinity setting, and because surviving outside the trinity was impossible in dungeon, the dificulty was set to fit trinity. In older mmo you would generally just go there and group up as you were meeting people, the organized groups wasn't such a necessity but deeper inside. You could hang in a lot of rooms even solo, or in duo or whatever, you didn't need a full organized group ala trinity. The diffculty progression was much softer than in usual trinity like game, and it was a great way to actually meet up people and group. You actually didn't need such a strong organization but for the hardest levels or rooms.
Dungeons in old rpg games are open to all areas really, they were the place poeple will go to find other poeples to group up and go deeper in them as they group. In older rpg games the deeper you go the harder they are usually, and it fit perfectly with that. They shoudl really consider this as an option. Open up at least the first 1/3, and make it a place where poeple can go and meet to go further, thats my 2cents.
You've got Dynamic Events in the open world for that. I'm sure that there are going to be many underground and underwater DEs with nasty bosses at the end of them. For all thoughts and purposes those will be equivalent to the old-school open world dungeons many of us are wishing for.
Imo a typical experience for a "social soloer" (player who doesn't like clan exclusivity but likes to play with people) would be to play through a few DEs and then go "Hey guys, we make a pretty good team. Why don't we try the dungeon XYZ. There's a pretty groovy sword there I'd like to get hold of."
What's bothering me a bit about this article is that there really is no new information there except that dungeons will feature DE mechanics like in the open world (tho they obviously won't be scalable since dungeons are supposed to be some kind of a challenge).
"they may run the explorable versions as many times as they want, increasing the quantity of armor and weapons that are available from that dungeon."
This bit confuses me especially. Will there be some kind of level scaling? A while back it was mentioned that you could re-run the same dungeon whenever you want unce you unlock it.... Couple this with the fact that the armors and weapons are supposed to be purely cosmetic (and therefore not depending on char level for their appeal). Add this all up and there's bound to be either character level scaling (sidekicking, downkicking or whatever) or the dungeons themselves will scale difficulty according to the party level.
Hmm. I'd really like to get some more info on this.
Dungeons in old rpg games are open to all areas really, they were the place poeple will go to find other poeples to group up and go deeper in them as they group. In older rpg games the deeper you go the harder they are usually, and it fit perfectly with that. They shoudl really consider this as an option. Open up at least the first 1/3, and make it a place where poeple can go and meet to go further, thats my 2cents.
You've got Dynamic Events in the open world for that. I'm sure that there are going to be many underground and underwater DEs with nasty bosses at the end of them. For all thoughts and purposes those will be equivalent to the old-school open world dungeons many of us are wishing for.
Imo a typical experience for a "social soloer" (player who doesn't like clan exclusivity but likes to play with people) would be to play through a few DEs and then go "Hey guys, we make a pretty good team. Why don't we try the dungeon XYZ. There's a pretty groovy sword there I'd like to get hold of."
I'm really not sure dynamic event will be such a good medium to have poeple meet and create groups. Dungeon did push people to do group because of the difficulty changing from a room to an other, so cooperation was needed to go further. I don't think you will have that in dynamic events, maybe.
What's bothering me a bit about this article is that there really is no new information there except that dungeons will feature DE mechanics like in the open world (tho they obviously won't be scalable since dungeons are supposed to be some kind of a challenge).
"they may run the explorable versions as many times as they want, increasing the quantity of armor and weapons that are available from that dungeon."
This bit confuses me especially. Will there be some kind of level scaling? A while back it was mentioned that you could re-run the same dungeon whenever you want unce you unlock it.... Couple this with the fact that the armors and weapons are supposed to be purely cosmetic (and therefore not depending on char level for their appeal). Add this all up and there's bound to be either character level scaling (sidekicking, downkicking or whatever) or the dungeons themselves will scale difficulty according to the party level.
Hmm. I'd really like to get some more info on this.
Dungeons have scaling just like DEs do. Your level gets dropped to something appropriate for the dungeons so that you don't one shot everything.
What's bothering me a bit about this article is that there really is no new information there except that dungeons will feature DE mechanics like in the open world (tho they obviously won't be scalable since dungeons are supposed to be some kind of a challenge).
"they may run the explorable versions as many times as they want, increasing the quantity of armor and weapons that are available from that dungeon."
This bit confuses me especially. Will there be some kind of level scaling? A while back it was mentioned that you could re-run the same dungeon whenever you want unce you unlock it.... Couple this with the fact that the armors and weapons are supposed to be purely cosmetic (and therefore not depending on char level for their appeal). Add this all up and there's bound to be either character level scaling (sidekicking, downkicking or whatever) or the dungeons themselves will scale difficulty according to the party level.
Hmm. I'd really like to get some more info on this.
Dungeons have scaling just like DEs do. Your level gets dropped to something appropriate for the dungeons so that you don't one shot everything.
Yeah, I heard something in that vein before but still I'd think that some clarification/further info in that regard would be welcome... I mean that's a pretty crucial component of the whole dungeon thing.
So 5 Dungeons for Destiny's Edge leaves 3 post that stage at Level 80?
Also 1 Story mode & 3 Explorable modes: I wonder if each Explorable mode will be more or less challenging?
Did you not read the article they wrote about it? It specifically said "more challenging" but of course "more challenging" is subjective.
Sorry my wording was gnomic to say the least: "EACH" should have been emphasized more; jumping the gun:
1. Challenging PvE Content:
a) Orr DEs
b) Some major DEs
c) Dungeons
i) Story must be the "easiest" mode as it dual functions as PS and "structured group content".
ii) Explorable Mode has 3 versions... those are based on i) and also the 3 decisions you choose to follow up eg the Durmond Priory eg.
However the contention that is possible and I wonder if it is designed as such is that:
2. Hardest Dungeon Challenge Content:
a) Easiest = Story, Medium = Explorable 1, Hard = Explorable 2, Nightmare = Explorable 3 ???
OR,
b) They just reserve the hardest dungeon content to the 3 post destiny edge (x5) dungeons?
I would like them to comment on the scale of challenge around Dungeons more definitively...
Personal Story and the story mode for dungeons are NOT connected. Your personal story does not send you into any dungeons that we know of and the story mode for dungeons is not soloable.
What's bothering me a bit about this article is that there really is no new information there except that dungeons will feature DE mechanics like in the open world (tho they obviously won't be scalable since dungeons are supposed to be some kind of a challenge).
"they may run the explorable versions as many times as they want, increasing the quantity of armor and weapons that are available from that dungeon."
This bit confuses me especially. Will there be some kind of level scaling? A while back it was mentioned that you could re-run the same dungeon whenever you want unce you unlock it.... Couple this with the fact that the armors and weapons are supposed to be purely cosmetic (and therefore not depending on char level for their appeal). Add this all up and there's bound to be either character level scaling (sidekicking, downkicking or whatever) or the dungeons themselves will scale difficulty according to the party level.
Hmm. I'd really like to get some more info on this.
Dungeons have scaling just like DEs do. Your level gets dropped to something appropriate for the dungeons so that you don't one shot everything.
Yeah, I heard something in that vein before but still I'd think that some clarification/further info in that regard would be welcome... I mean that's a pretty crucial component of the whole dungeon thing.
You can find the quote in the old PCgamer articles. Either the dungeon article or the info dump from last year. I would give the links but its too late where I am.
So 5 Dungeons for Destiny's Edge leaves 3 post that stage at Level 80?
Also 1 Story mode & 3 Explorable modes: I wonder if each Explorable mode will be more or less challenging?
Did you not read the article they wrote about it? It specifically said "more challenging" but of course "more challenging" is subjective.
Sorry my wording was gnomic to say the least: "EACH" should have been emphasized more; jumping the gun:
1. Challenging PvE Content:
a) Orr DEs
b) Some major DEs
c) Dungeons
i) Story must be the "easiest" mode as it dual functions as PS and "structured group content".
ii) Explorable Mode has 3 versions... those are based on i) and also the 3 decisions you choose to follow up eg the Durmond Priory eg.
However the contention that is possible and I wonder if it is designed as such is that:
2. Hardest Dungeon Challenge Content:
a) Easiest = Story, Medium = Explorable 1, Hard = Explorable 2, Nightmare = Explorable 3 ???
OR,
b) They just reserve the hardest dungeon content to the 3 post destiny edge (x5) dungeons?
I would like them to comment on the scale of challenge around Dungeons more definitively...
Personal Story and the story mode for dungeons are NOT connected. Your personal story does not send you into any dungeons that we know of and the story mode for dungeons is not soloable.
No you right, but it's linked to enrich your PS/Tyria experience hence it WILL be the EASIEST version, is the point I'm backing? Bah, my lack of precise wording is shite atm, my bad. ; )
But will those 3 MODES each be different challenge/same difficulty or different difficulty?
So 5 Dungeons for Destiny's Edge leaves 3 post that stage at Level 80?
Also 1 Story mode & 3 Explorable modes: I wonder if each Explorable mode will be more or less challenging?
Did you not read the article they wrote about it? It specifically said "more challenging" but of course "more challenging" is subjective.
Sorry my wording was gnomic to say the least: "EACH" should have been emphasized more; jumping the gun:
1. Challenging PvE Content:
a) Orr DEs
b) Some major DEs
c) Dungeons
i) Story must be the "easiest" mode as it dual functions as PS and "structured group content".
ii) Explorable Mode has 3 versions... those are based on i) and also the 3 decisions you choose to follow up eg the Durmond Priory eg.
However the contention that is possible and I wonder if it is designed as such is that:
2. Hardest Dungeon Challenge Content:
a) Easiest = Story, Medium = Explorable 1, Hard = Explorable 2, Nightmare = Explorable 3 ???
OR,
b) They just reserve the hardest dungeon content to the 3 post destiny edge (x5) dungeons?
I would like them to comment on the scale of challenge around Dungeons more definitively...
Personal Story and the story mode for dungeons are NOT connected. Your personal story does not send you into any dungeons that we know of and the story mode for dungeons is not soloable.
No you right, but it's linked to enrich your PS/Tyria experience hence it WILL be the EASIEST version, is the point I'm backing? Bah, my lack of precise wording is shite atm, my bad. ; )
But will those 3 MODES each be different challenge/same difficulty or different difficulty?
Jeff Grubb said during the PAX East panel that each version of the explorable mode had a higher learning curve.
Dungeon grind!!!! Nooooooooooooooooo >< Didn't they promise "no grind"?
I think if I can get all the loot by the time I've done all story related things from dungeon and have not received my complete loot then it's grind. Don't make me run dungeon over and over for the sake of loot.
Every MMO has grinding,it's a feature of every mmo and it will never change. It's all about finding that sweet spot that makes the grinding seem fun and less of a chore.
I disagree. The original GW had no grind, and I doubt GW2 will have either. You hit level max very fast and then proceeded with the story. The end. There was a lot of optional stuff, but you didnt _need_ any of it in order to complete the story or get to the end of the game.
...lol wait...What? No grind in GW? Gear is optional... There was TONS of grinding in GW1. There still is. Except instead of Bow of +10 because it's from a raid, you have Bow of +10 awesome looking from grinding.
You don't NEED to grind gear to get to the end level in most games. You may need to grind gear at end game to see more of the end game, sure. But saying there was no grinding in GW is silly.
It may be optional to do these dungeons again for different looking gear. But come on, looking different is the POINT of GW. It's a grind. Hey, I will do this grind. I like to look different and change things up. But I would still call it equal to the normal gear grind in that sense.
Lol, looking different is the point? Maybe its the point for you but the point for me when playing games is to finish the story and play my character better than my peers. I never did any grind in GW1 just finished the story and went on to the dungeons no need to grind for anything for me.
So 5 Dungeons for Destiny's Edge leaves 3 post that stage at Level 80?
Also 1 Story mode & 3 Explorable modes: I wonder if each Explorable mode will be more or less challenging?
Did you not read the article they wrote about it? It specifically said "more challenging" but of course "more challenging" is subjective.
Sorry my wording was gnomic to say the least: "EACH" should have been emphasized more; jumping the gun:
1. Challenging PvE Content:
a) Orr DEs
b) Some major DEs
c) Dungeons
i) Story must be the "easiest" mode as it dual functions as PS and "structured group content".
ii) Explorable Mode has 3 versions... those are based on i) and also the 3 decisions you choose to follow up eg the Durmond Priory eg.
However the contention that is possible and I wonder if it is designed as such is that:
2. Hardest Dungeon Challenge Content:
a) Easiest = Story, Medium = Explorable 1, Hard = Explorable 2, Nightmare = Explorable 3 ???
OR,
b) They just reserve the hardest dungeon content to the 3 post destiny edge (x5) dungeons?
I would like them to comment on the scale of challenge around Dungeons more definitively...
Personal Story and the story mode for dungeons are NOT connected. Your personal story does not send you into any dungeons that we know of and the story mode for dungeons is not soloable.
No you right, but it's linked to enrich your PS/Tyria experience hence it WILL be the EASIEST version, is the point I'm backing? Bah, my lack of precise wording is shite atm, my bad. ; )
But will those 3 MODES each be different challenge/same difficulty or different difficulty?
Jeff Grubb said during the PAX East panel that each version of the explorable mode had a higher learning curve.
Cool, that's interesting... so each has a higher difficulty compared to the story but exactly how variable compared to each other, in that case? That would be interesting to have confirmed I think as the question of sufficient challene for some ppl is a big one and the dungeons need to deliver. IE a little of the content that is exceedingly difficult I am happy to live with even if personally I am incompetent to complete it, as there will always be ppl can excel at such...
I hate the arguments. "OMGGG THEY PROMIZED NO GRINDZZZZZZZZZZZ"
Are we really at the point we're we are so dumb we must take everything completely litterally and argue over the most silly semantics? I'm pretty sure there are better things to do on a saturday morning than argue about this fallable crap.
They(ArenaNet) meant that there would not be a grind for people who do not want it. What does that mean? GW was createdon a "pillar of casual gamers relevance" so people that that played less than others were not made inferior from lack of re-running dungeons for gear or daily quests(like WoW) but were inferior/superior for their skills/tactics/teamwork/cordination/planning/strategy/builds.
The idea was that there still could be long term goals to pursue, but they would not make your character stronger, because they felt it was not a fair win to win or lose to someone who played more or less than you as the main difference. Imagine if people got more moves to do if they had played chess more than their opponents. Like they could move 3-4 pieces per turn, because they have more "experience". Some people adapt faster, that's natural ability. winning on your characters gear is just hands holding, not the players own skillset growing within himself.
So yes, I am confident that there will be "grind" in GW2. Titles, stats, vanity gear. All these sorts of things will probably require thousands of hours to master. But they won't hinder your progress. Even if you don't believe their word when they say their wont be uber gear, what would be the point?
WvWvW is unbalanced by design. It will contain no scaling and will just be an all around, complete sanity fest. It's refreshing. Instead of polishing a broken turd(WoW battlegrounds) they acknowledge the balanace of something on such a hugh scale with so many parameters.
Structured group PvP is different. Here everything gets scaled accordingly. What does that mean? It means that uber gear and level wont matter. They make everyone "max" in structured pvp. The point is winning on your player performance and teamwork.
So you got both, of both worlds. As for the PvE'ers will dungeons be massive timesinks, will they have certain amount of tries per day, what is the penalty for dying in a dungeon?
But I also want to say about grouping: Mr. Poster, don't be sad about organizational groups. All that means is groups with teamwork, and trust me, you want that. Even for some reason if what you enjoy is zerging mindlessly with three others with no cordination and beating the dungeon that way is fun, I don't think you would find the easy difficult fun after a while.
When they removed the trinity, in the traditional sense they did it so you would not be forced to play a role you do not want to when you played a warrrior. They did it so, when people entered the dungeon with you, that they would not force you to be a tank. Maybe you like tanking, but not today. maybe you just dont want to tank for these a**clowns. It does not really matter. the game tells you to tank, because your a tank. you just cant be a bad a** mofo who deals damage with a two handed axe.
The above scenario sucks. What they are trying to do, is to remove the niche groups of traditional tanking and healing, and spicing it up. All professions can take up multiple choices. their weapon sets help alter their role. If a Warrior wants to do long ranged dps, he can equip a bow, use his bow skills. if he wants to tank he, can do a 1 handed + shield. if he wants to do AOE he can - ... and so on and so forth.
But of course there will still be teamwork. enemies will be difficult, they will test the players. players will have to work together, take turns to focus on the mobs mainly, so others can heal. Some will need to give support, others will use their crowd control(necros are good at it, but others have it too) to control and get advantage. and all can do damage.
From what I understand it is not a must do, so they kept their promise you don't "have to" grind.
Umm... they did not mention a single word about getting that ubber loot elsewhere either. So wouldn't I be gimp if I don't do them?
Dungeon gear is not "Uber powerful gear", its just unique. This isn'y a gear based game either so you won't be gimping yourself.
Gear games like WoW are usually subscription-based and the Purples are the lures to keep you subed for the many weeks-months it will take you to run the dungeon 50 or so times to get everything there...GW2 isn't in that model so they don't have to make it a dungeon gear raiding game with everyone outside of that left in the cold.
What the hell did just happend? I had to check mmorpg.com before I went to the party and some hours later when I come home, there are 4 articles about GW2? Whaaat? They have been so quiet and now this? Too much for my head
Well guys what I see from GW2 about dungeons sounds, guess what, innovative. They are trying something new. I enjoyed the WOW druid cause I could do a lot of things, not just the 'trinity'. GW2, TOR and TSW are all trying to expand the players choices and toys (gear/powers/skills) and still let you play any of the trinity to whatever extent you like. I think this is great.
TOR will be my space game, GW2 my fantasy game and TSW my modern game. I am a retired professional game designer with both the resources and time to play anything I want. These 3 upcoming games are like having Christmas in triad (trinity?). Hope to see u all in game (and soon please)
Well guys what I see from GW2 about dungeons sounds, guess what, innovative. They are trying something new. I enjoyed the WOW druid cause I could do a lot of things, not just the 'trinity'. GW2, TOR and TSW are all trying to expand the players choices and toys (gear/powers/skills) and still let you play any of the trinity to whatever extent you like. I think this is great.
TOR will be my space game, GW2 my fantasy game and TSW my modern game. I am a retired professional game designer with both the resources and time to play anything I want. These 3 upcoming games are like having Christmas in triad (trinity?). Hope to see u all in game (and soon please)
& Star Legends: The Blackstar Chronicles will be your mobile mmo (mmobile) game?! Should be out early July-ish and worth a look.
I'm critical of TOR in several ways but I really am also excited to see how it works out too. GW2 is looking out of this world and TSW has great design ideas but I really know nothing about how WELL these have been implemented.
I hate the arguments. "OMGGG THEY PROMIZED NO GRINDZZZZZZZZZZZ"
Are we really at the point we're we are so dumb we must take everything completely litterally and argue over the most silly semantics? I'm pretty sure there are better things to do on a saturday morning than argue about this fallable crap.
They(ArenaNet) meant that there would not be a grind for people who do not want it. What does that mean? GW was createdon a "pillar of casual gamers relevance" so people that that played less than others were not made inferior from lack of re-running dungeons for gear or daily quests(like WoW) but were inferior/superior for their skills/tactics/teamwork/cordination/planning/strategy/builds.
The idea was that there still could be long term goals to pursue, but they would not make your character stronger, because they felt it was not a fair win to win or lose to someone who played more or less than you as the main difference. Imagine if people got more moves to do if they had played chess more than their opponents. Like they could move 3-4 pieces per turn, because they have more "experience". Some people adapt faster, that's natural ability. winning on your characters gear is just hands holding, not the players own skillset growing within himself.
So yes, I am confident that there will be "grind" in GW2. Titles, stats, vanity gear. All these sorts of things will probably require thousands of hours to master. But they won't hinder your progress. Even if you don't believe their word when they say their wont be uber gear, what would be the point?
WvWvW is unbalanced by design. It will contain no scaling and will just be an all around, complete sanity fest. It's refreshing. Instead of polishing a broken turd(WoW battlegrounds) they acknowledge the balanace of something on such a hugh scale with so many parameters.
Structured group PvP is different. Here everything gets scaled accordingly. What does that mean? It means that uber gear and level wont matter. They make everyone "max" in structured pvp. The point is winning on your player performance and teamwork.
So you got both, of both worlds. As for the PvE'ers will dungeons be massive timesinks, will they have certain amount of tries per day, what is the penalty for dying in a dungeon?
But I also want to say about grouping: Mr. Poster, don't be sad about organizational groups. All that means is groups with teamwork, and trust me, you want that. Even for some reason if what you enjoy is zerging mindlessly with three others with no cordination and beating the dungeon that way is fun, I don't think you would find the easy difficult fun after a while.
When they removed the trinity, in the traditional sense they did it so you would not be forced to play a role you do not want to when you played a warrrior. They did it so, when people entered the dungeon with you, that they would not force you to be a tank. Maybe you like tanking, but not today. maybe you just dont want to tank for these a**clowns. It does not really matter. the game tells you to tank, because your a tank. you just cant be a bad a** mofo who deals damage with a two handed axe.
The above scenario sucks. What they are trying to do, is to remove the niche groups of traditional tanking and healing, and spicing it up. All professions can take up multiple choices. their weapon sets help alter their role. If a Warrior wants to do long ranged dps, he can equip a bow, use his bow skills. if he wants to tank he, can do a 1 handed + shield. if he wants to do AOE he can - ... and so on and so forth.
But of course there will still be teamwork. enemies will be difficult, they will test the players. players will have to work together, take turns to focus on the mobs mainly, so others can heal. Some will need to give support, others will use their crowd control(necros are good at it, but others have it too) to control and get advantage. and all can do damage.
^ nailed it.
TLDR;
1)GW had grind, but they were optional. GW2 will go downt he same route
2)GW2's dungeon will require some organization - simply getting enough people in the party as well as some careful planning. organization =/= looking for certain classes to fill roles, but u can't just zergrush through them either.
Comments
This is not a game.
Please note that GW2 did NOT abandon the trinity. They just made it more fluid, so no profession is locked into a specific role. All professions have the potential to fill out any role of the trinity, though some professions will be better at certain aspects of it.
...lol wait...What? No grind in GW? Gear is optional... There was TONS of grinding in GW1. There still is. Except instead of Bow of +10 because it's from a raid, you have Bow of +10 awesome looking from grinding.
You don't NEED to grind gear to get to the end level in most games. You may need to grind gear at end game to see more of the end game, sure. But saying there was no grinding in GW is silly.
It may be optional to do these dungeons again for different looking gear. But come on, looking different is the POINT of GW. It's a grind. Hey, I will do this grind. I like to look different and change things up. But I would still call it equal to the normal gear grind in that sense.
To get to level 35, the flat leveling line and the blog article said each level took about 90 minutes to get once you passed the initial levels, so even so after playing for a maximum of 52 hours, you should be allowed to enter a dungeon. Sounds like just enough time to figure out your character and learn how to use it without becoming frustrated at your first dungeon experience.
edit: And I believe there's enough content to keep you entertained for that time period.
After the trinity dungeons is all about LFG shooting in chats since you have to organize a group before going into them. Thats all i'm saying. It became a necessity because of the trinity setting, and because surviving outside the trinity was impossible in dungeon, the dificulty was set to fit trinity. In older mmo you would generally just go there and group up as you were meeting people, the organized groups wasn't such a necessity but deeper inside. You could hang in a lot of rooms even solo, or in duo or whatever, you didn't need a full organized group ala trinity. The diffculty progression was much softer than in usual trinity like game, and it was a great way to actually meet up people and group. You actually didn't need such a strong organization but for the hardest levels or rooms.
You've got Dynamic Events in the open world for that. I'm sure that there are going to be many underground and underwater DEs with nasty bosses at the end of them. For all thoughts and purposes those will be equivalent to the old-school open world dungeons many of us are wishing for.
Imo a typical experience for a "social soloer" (player who doesn't like clan exclusivity but likes to play with people) would be to play through a few DEs and then go "Hey guys, we make a pretty good team. Why don't we try the dungeon XYZ. There's a pretty groovy sword there I'd like to get hold of."
What's bothering me a bit about this article is that there really is no new information there except that dungeons will feature DE mechanics like in the open world (tho they obviously won't be scalable since dungeons are supposed to be some kind of a challenge).
"they may run the explorable versions as many times as they want, increasing the quantity of armor and weapons that are available from that dungeon."
This bit confuses me especially. Will there be some kind of level scaling? A while back it was mentioned that you could re-run the same dungeon whenever you want unce you unlock it.... Couple this with the fact that the armors and weapons are supposed to be purely cosmetic (and therefore not depending on char level for their appeal). Add this all up and there's bound to be either character level scaling (sidekicking, downkicking or whatever) or the dungeons themselves will scale difficulty according to the party level.
Hmm. I'd really like to get some more info on this.
I'm really not sure dynamic event will be such a good medium to have poeple meet and create groups. Dungeon did push people to do group because of the difficulty changing from a room to an other, so cooperation was needed to go further. I don't think you will have that in dynamic events, maybe.
Dungeons have scaling just like DEs do. Your level gets dropped to something appropriate for the dungeons so that you don't one shot everything.
Sorry my wording was gnomic to say the least: "EACH" should have been emphasized more; jumping the gun:
1. Challenging PvE Content:
a) Orr DEs
b) Some major DEs
c) Dungeons
i) Story must be the "easiest" mode as it dual functions as PS and "structured group content".
ii) Explorable Mode has 3 versions... those are based on i) and also the 3 decisions you choose to follow up eg the Durmond Priory eg.
However the contention that is possible and I wonder if it is designed as such is that:
2. Hardest Dungeon Challenge Content:
a) Easiest = Story, Medium = Explorable 1, Hard = Explorable 2, Nightmare = Explorable 3 ???
OR,
b) They just reserve the hardest dungeon content to the 3 post destiny edge (x5) dungeons?
I would like them to comment on the scale of challenge around Dungeons more definitively...
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Yeah, I heard something in that vein before but still I'd think that some clarification/further info in that regard would be welcome... I mean that's a pretty crucial component of the whole dungeon thing.
Personal Story and the story mode for dungeons are NOT connected. Your personal story does not send you into any dungeons that we know of and the story mode for dungeons is not soloable.
You can find the quote in the old PCgamer articles. Either the dungeon article or the info dump from last year. I would give the links but its too late where I am.
No you right, but it's linked to enrich your PS/Tyria experience hence it WILL be the EASIEST version, is the point I'm backing? Bah, my lack of precise wording is shite atm, my bad. ; )
But will those 3 MODES each be different challenge/same difficulty or different difficulty?
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Jeff Grubb said during the PAX East panel that each version of the explorable mode had a higher learning curve.
Lol, looking different is the point? Maybe its the point for you but the point for me when playing games is to finish the story and play my character better than my peers. I never did any grind in GW1 just finished the story and went on to the dungeons no need to grind for anything for me.
This is not a game.
Cool, that's interesting... so each has a higher difficulty compared to the story but exactly how variable compared to each other, in that case? That would be interesting to have confirmed I think as the question of sufficient challene for some ppl is a big one and the dungeons need to deliver. IE a little of the content that is exceedingly difficult I am happy to live with even if personally I am incompetent to complete it, as there will always be ppl can excel at such...
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
What a silly thread.
I hate the arguments. "OMGGG THEY PROMIZED NO GRINDZZZZZZZZZZZ"
Are we really at the point we're we are so dumb we must take everything completely litterally and argue over the most silly semantics? I'm pretty sure there are better things to do on a saturday morning than argue about this fallable crap.
They(ArenaNet) meant that there would not be a grind for people who do not want it. What does that mean? GW was createdon a "pillar of casual gamers relevance" so people that that played less than others were not made inferior from lack of re-running dungeons for gear or daily quests(like WoW) but were inferior/superior for their skills/tactics/teamwork/cordination/planning/strategy/builds.
The idea was that there still could be long term goals to pursue, but they would not make your character stronger, because they felt it was not a fair win to win or lose to someone who played more or less than you as the main difference. Imagine if people got more moves to do if they had played chess more than their opponents. Like they could move 3-4 pieces per turn, because they have more "experience". Some people adapt faster, that's natural ability. winning on your characters gear is just hands holding, not the players own skillset growing within himself.
So yes, I am confident that there will be "grind" in GW2. Titles, stats, vanity gear. All these sorts of things will probably require thousands of hours to master. But they won't hinder your progress. Even if you don't believe their word when they say their wont be uber gear, what would be the point?
WvWvW is unbalanced by design. It will contain no scaling and will just be an all around, complete sanity fest. It's refreshing. Instead of polishing a broken turd(WoW battlegrounds) they acknowledge the balanace of something on such a hugh scale with so many parameters.
Structured group PvP is different. Here everything gets scaled accordingly. What does that mean? It means that uber gear and level wont matter. They make everyone "max" in structured pvp. The point is winning on your player performance and teamwork.
So you got both, of both worlds. As for the PvE'ers will dungeons be massive timesinks, will they have certain amount of tries per day, what is the penalty for dying in a dungeon?
But I also want to say about grouping: Mr. Poster, don't be sad about organizational groups. All that means is groups with teamwork, and trust me, you want that. Even for some reason if what you enjoy is zerging mindlessly with three others with no cordination and beating the dungeon that way is fun, I don't think you would find the easy difficult fun after a while.
When they removed the trinity, in the traditional sense they did it so you would not be forced to play a role you do not want to when you played a warrrior. They did it so, when people entered the dungeon with you, that they would not force you to be a tank. Maybe you like tanking, but not today. maybe you just dont want to tank for these a**clowns. It does not really matter. the game tells you to tank, because your a tank. you just cant be a bad a** mofo who deals damage with a two handed axe.
The above scenario sucks. What they are trying to do, is to remove the niche groups of traditional tanking and healing, and spicing it up. All professions can take up multiple choices. their weapon sets help alter their role. If a Warrior wants to do long ranged dps, he can equip a bow, use his bow skills. if he wants to tank he, can do a 1 handed + shield. if he wants to do AOE he can - ... and so on and so forth.
But of course there will still be teamwork. enemies will be difficult, they will test the players. players will have to work together, take turns to focus on the mobs mainly, so others can heal. Some will need to give support, others will use their crowd control(necros are good at it, but others have it too) to control and get advantage. and all can do damage.
Gear games like WoW are usually subscription-based and the Purples are the lures to keep you subed for the many weeks-months it will take you to run the dungeon 50 or so times to get everything there...GW2 isn't in that model so they don't have to make it a dungeon gear raiding game with everyone outside of that left in the cold.
What the hell did just happend? I had to check mmorpg.com before I went to the party and some hours later when I come home, there are 4 articles about GW2? Whaaat? They have been so quiet and now this? Too much for my head
Well guys what I see from GW2 about dungeons sounds, guess what, innovative. They are trying something new. I enjoyed the WOW druid cause I could do a lot of things, not just the 'trinity'. GW2, TOR and TSW are all trying to expand the players choices and toys (gear/powers/skills) and still let you play any of the trinity to whatever extent you like. I think this is great.
TOR will be my space game, GW2 my fantasy game and TSW my modern game. I am a retired professional game designer with both the resources and time to play anything I want. These 3 upcoming games are like having Christmas in triad (trinity?). Hope to see u all in game (and soon please)
& Star Legends: The Blackstar Chronicles will be your mobile mmo (mmobile) game?! Should be out early July-ish and worth a look.
I'm critical of TOR in several ways but I really am also excited to see how it works out too. GW2 is looking out of this world and TSW has great design ideas but I really know nothing about how WELL these have been implemented.
@garry: Good quote worth thinking about: http://www.1up.com/news/shigeru-miyamoto-dream-rubiks-cube
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
^ nailed it.
TLDR;
1)GW had grind, but they were optional. GW2 will go downt he same route
2)GW2's dungeon will require some organization - simply getting enough people in the party as well as some careful planning. organization =/= looking for certain classes to fill roles, but u can't just zergrush through them either.
I'm going to grind the shit out of these dungeons and probably love every second.