Just because you are a 'vet' does not make you more important to the game than a week old carebear in high sec.
Actually...it does. because it makes you more important to the players. And the players are the game in a sandbox. It's understanding you want to believe every player is equal but...most of eve players play eve exactly because this isn't true.
in any game where politics is involved, a vet is more important than a 'week old carebear'. Think about it.
Originally posted by Robokapp Actually...it does. because it makes you more important to the players. And the players are the game in a sandbox. It's understanding you want to believe every player is equal but...most of eve players play eve exactly because this isn't true.
in any game where politics is involved, a vet is more important than a 'week old carebear'. Think about it.
I do think about it just I do not think in small frame of subjective perception of single, disgruntled player.
You base your argument on invalid assumption that the game is not changing and reflect the game changes against the state of the game at some given point in past.
There are many EVE players that have quit in 2005 because the game was not the same as in 2003, and same way there are many thatr quit the game in 2008 because the game was not the same as 2005, etc...you see the pattern.
This happens all the time. Nothing new, just some people are about their leave more vocal than others.
So the vets leave and the game will be(supposedly) with less politics but with more other stuff, so what? The game is changing, constantly. You either keep your sub or you won't. Usual business.
Sorry about :longpost: but it's a somewhat complex matter and it's got some history behind it. This is just from my viewpoint mind you so feel free to correct mistakes or even dismiss this as the ramblings of a "bittervet."
Been playing since April of 2004 (a few minor breaks) and I'm one of the oddballs, I only have 1 account.
After I did a little reading on the leaked letter, the blogs and some of the other documentation, I closed that one account.
EVE has been my game, my hobby, hell it's almost been my life as it's been quite a bit more interesting than many parts of my RL. I've participated in battles which decided the fate of entire regions, fought along side thousands against thousands, all in the same system on the same server (and yes, there was terrible lag) and I've made some very good friends through the years.
That same game which has brought me so much joy and satisfaction with it's complexity, community and ever evolving universe basically just shat on me and many others just like me.
I am not rich, nor do I wish to invest ever larger sums into a game just so I can remain competative. Over the years I have specifically kept myself subbed to EVE even when I was not playing because I actually believed in CCP and in EVE, in the direction they were taking it. That started to change over the last year or two. Waaaay back in the day, it used to take whole groups of people working together to get most things done (taking space, building big projects, etc.)
Now, all it takes is someone with a whole lotta cash and the willingness to part with it. When they introduced PLEX, they sold it as a way to fight Macro/gold farmers (Plex is basically game time codes you can buy with in game isk, or sell for in game isk if you have lots of RL money). Many in EVE were not happy with this but we wanted to help CCP in the fight against RMT and botters/macros. Has it helped? I don't think it has done nearly enough as pretty much every alliance out in 0.0 is infested with, or openly renting space to the Macro abusers/RMT traders.
Next up, is Super-Caps. Before the advent of Capital ships, there was a fairly level playing field. The biggest ship out there was a battleship and with about 3-6 months of training and a bit of effort, you and everyone else could get into one. Then came Capital ships, Dreads and Carriers, basically quadruple to 8 times the cost of a battleship with longer training times. Then came Supercaps, Titans and Motherships. For lack of a better term, they are solo-pwnmobiles. The only thing capable of countering a Titan or a Mothership is a support fleet AND another (or multiple) Titans and Motherships. The costs for these beasts is outrageous ensuring that only a the top tier...heh, more like top spending players have access to them. Not to mention you can't dock them so whatever character you put in them is pretty much logged off all the time until you need them.
Finally, came the most recent fiasco. They introduced the NEX store which allows players to buy vanity items using PLEX (real money basically) to buy monocles and shirts and what not (mind you at stupidly inflated prices.) This in itself wouldn't have been so bad, there would have been grumbling but if people want to dump cash on playing dress up, more power to them. It was the sudden introduction of the store combined with CCP's silence when the players rightfully asked "Didn't you say no Micro Transactions? If you broke that promise, well then do you still mean to keep your proimse about no game-rules affecting items in the Micro transaction store?"
Basically one question was asked, over and over again... "Will you ever sell game/rule affecting items (i.e. non vanity) in the Micro Transaction store?" Utter. Silence. When they did finally respond, after some rather disparaging remarks contained in some leaked documents, they did not even ATTEMPT to address the explicitly stated concerns of the customer base. Basically we got a giant middle finger.
So many folks, myself included, decided to take a page from CCP's newly released "book" and let them watch what we DO instead of listen to what we SAY. We walked out, cancelled our subs. Do I want it to end this way? Hell no, I love EVE and I miss the quirky, awesome, friendly developers known as CCP. Sadly they seem to have become Cash Cow Productions now and as the story goes on, more and more long-simmering concerns are being brought up to yet more stalling and silence. I love EVE, and damn I'm going to miss it but CCP won't be getting another dime from me until they can prove without a doubt that they are developing, managing and continuing to expand EVE to make it the best it can be to benefit the maximum number of people possible (and not spending all the sub-money and development time on their other games at the EXPENSE of EVE). Until then, I'll look back with fond memories and a tightly closed wallet.
ve playerbase was taunted. we were told its our actions that matter in moments like this, not our words.
so we acted.
how many players will quit? more than the number of players who'll buy the monocle. Enough to make the change not profitable even in short-term.
forums had a counter somewhere and I think it was at 2500 accounts last I checked. With 52 monocles sold according to the email. So yeah...I mean its not a lot, it's only 1% but it's not what any company wants to see.
2500 accounts is 37.500 $/euros less per month. How much have they made selling 52 monocles?
So people are up in arms because they now have the option to buy some completely insignificantcosmetic item?
I've said it before and i'll say it again, you people need to get over your obsessive hatred with cash shops.
No, there are a number of items leading to this alleged exodus of players.
Cash Shop - Expensive items in cash shop is one thing, the other is the leaked mail indicating that Eve might sell more than just fluff items in the cash shop.
License fees for third party sites - CCP has acknowledged that the proposal will be changed but still it caused alot of angry people.
CCP not listening to their players and their CSM (those player representetives) and in another leaked mail saying that it is not what the players say is what it is important but rather what they do.
Incarna and the captains quarters. Many see it as a useless fluff feature with the main purpose to push the cash shope and are actually turning it of.
Put all these factors together and you got an angry mob, as was evident in the recent Jira protests.
Don't believe it you've seen actual numbers. You know what you've done but you only know what other people say they've done and many of them lie.
have you seen these actual numbers? we look at people saying they've cancelled...over on your side of the argument, what sources are you using? or just your oppinion? short of contacting Lulzsec to take a look at the actual database, this is as close to the official numbers as we have. meanwhile you have ... nothing.
Actually, you both have nothing . Which makes topics like this pointless.
So people are up in arms because they now have the option to buy some completely insignificantcosmetic item?
I've said it before and i'll say it again, you people need to get over your obsessive hatred with cash shops.
No, there are a number of items leading to this alleged exodus of players.
Cash Shop - Expensive items in cash shop is one thing, the other is the leaked mail indicating that Eve might sell more than just fluff items in the cash shop.
License fees for third party sites - CCP has acknowledged that the proposal will be changed but still it caused alot of angry people.
CCP not listening to their players and their CSM (those player representetives) and in another leaked mail saying that it is not what the players say is what it is important but rather what they do.
Incarna and the captains quarters. Many see it as a useless fluff feature with the main purpose to push the cash shope and are actually turning it of.
Put all these factors together and you got an angry mob, as was evident in the recent Jira protests.
So not only are people raving about cash shops but also about overturned decisions, CCP stating (Quite rightly) that only what players do matter and new content.
There we go, lost my faith in mmo gamers altogether, you people will complain about anything.
So people are up in arms because they now have the option to buy some completely insignificantcosmetic item?
I've said it before and i'll say it again, you people need to get over your obsessive hatred with cash shops.
No, there are a number of items leading to this alleged exodus of players.
Cash Shop - Expensive items in cash shop is one thing, the other is the leaked mail indicating that Eve might sell more than just fluff items in the cash shop.
License fees for third party sites - CCP has acknowledged that the proposal will be changed but still it caused alot of angry people.
CCP not listening to their players and their CSM (those player representetives) and in another leaked mail saying that it is not what the players say is what it is important but rather what they do.
Incarna and the captains quarters. Many see it as a useless fluff feature with the main purpose to push the cash shope and are actually turning it of.
Put all these factors together and you got an angry mob, as was evident in the recent Jira protests.
So not only are people raving about cash shops but also about overturned decisions, CCP stating (Quite rightly) that only what players do matter and new content.
There we go, lost my faith in mmo gamers altogether, you people will complain about anything.
I think it's more about "CCP Not doing EXACTLY what the players are telling them to do", rather than "CCP listening to the players".
Ive seen a lot of "vets" using their character age to somehow be more important than everyone else. I say good riddance to those lot.
I'm still waiting for all of Incarna to launch and then'll be JOINING the darn game.
I don't care what a pair of pants costs in a Cash shop... I won't buy them? Guh.
I just finally tried the character creator and captain's quarters... Ihave a character now who looks EXACTLY like Natalie Portman... No way I'm not playing this game when it launches Incarna 100%
Originally posted by BizkitNL I was just throwing the guy a bone. I know you don't need proof to state that the numbers are......a guess at best. Non-factional, unofficial, etc. Still makes this topic pointless.
From the perspective of guesstimate validity, yes, that is pointless. However, you can assume that the numbers are correct and consider it as a premise for further theory crafting. That isn't completely unreasonable and pointless.
I already posted my thoughts on this in another post, but people are starting to see CCP for what they are. I saw the light about 3 yrs ago and said so long, as have all the people I played with during the 6 yrs I played (counting beta). They are losing numbers and the players they are losing are the vets. Myself and friends of mine are getting the "Come back to Eve" emails every other month with free reactivation offers for 5 - 10 days.
I would say the vets are very important and can't be replaced that easily. Those that have been playing for a very long time have accumulated massive amounts of skill points and knowledge that can't be replaced, other than by someone who has been playing the same amount of time. It will have a ripple effect so in CCP's best interest they need to cater to the players that got them this far.
EVE is a good game, but if you can't trust the company that runs it, then it's not for me.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
I was just throwing the guy a bone. I know you don't need proof to state that the numbers are......a guess at best. Non-factional, unofficial, etc.
Still makes this topic pointless.
From the perspective of guesstimate validity, yes, that is pointless. However, you can assume that the numbers are correct and consider it as a premise for further theory crafting. That isn't completely unreasonable and pointless.
Agreed, but none of these cancellation-numbers topics as advertised as such. They are used as a factual argument to prove that CCP is failing and EvE is dying.
Originally posted by BizkitNL Agreed, but none of these cancellation-numbers topics as advertised as such. They are used as a factual argument to prove that CCP is failing and EvE is dying. Which is just wrong and......childish, really.
Heartily agree.
Sometimes I have to doubt the 'vet' label people stick on themselves because if they truly were veteran players, they must have seen quite a few similar rages...
The discussion here sounds an awful lot like the discussions that took place over SWG, and we see now how that's working out for them.
Don't think CCP will implement game breaking changes to the game? SOE did, thinking it'd make all kinds of money.......yeah.
Fact is, business is a risk, I can appreciate that. Stock holders want more money, I can appreciate that too. But what has made EvE successful is the fact that they do NOT emulate other games in how it operates. Why throw away actual money in hand to chase after "possible" sales. SWG did it (NGE) and it blew up in their faces. Learn from SOE's history and don't repeat it!!!
No, there are a number of items leading to this alleged exodus of players.
Cash Shop - Expensive items in cash shop is one thing, the other is the leaked mail indicating that Eve might sell more than just fluff items in the cash shop.
License fees for third party sites - CCP has acknowledged that the proposal will be changed but still it caused alot of angry people.
CCP not listening to their players and their CSM (those player representetives) and in another leaked mail saying that it is not what the players say is what it is important but rather what they do.
Incarna and the captains quarters. Many see it as a useless fluff feature with the main purpose to push the cash shope and are actually turning it of.
Put all these factors together and you got an angry mob, as was evident in the recent Jira protests.
I think it's more about "CCP Not doing EXACTLY what the players are telling them too do", rather than "CCP listening to the players".
Ive seen a lot of "vets" using their character age to somehow be more important than everyone else. I say good riddance to those lot.
That's just silly because there have been many good articles on this subject.
Several years ago, CCP began making decisions that many players felt were not in the best interest of the game they played.
It started with much less attention on Null sec activates ( the speed nerf might have been the first shot across the bow ), and moved first toward a focus on hi-sec, and then towards a focus on projects outside of EVE.
Players have accepted the rational for all of this and stayed loyal to this company, and all they are asking is that the integrity of the player driven economy be maintained.
Statements like this, "I think it's more about "CCP Not doing EXACTLY what the players are telling them to do" show complete lack of understanding of an unfortunate situatuion.
If the CCP council finish their round table meeting in Iceland and they decide "No gameplay-affecting items in cash shop", then will the disappointed players say "Yes, we won! EVE is P2P+ pricy vanity cash shop but there won´t be gamechanging items in the shop"?
Doesn´t sadism work like this? Take 100 x from a lost soul. Then after a while give him 50 x back, and the lost soul will be thankful. It reminds me a bit of the RealID event in WoW.
Originally posted by qazyman Statements like this, "I think it's more about "CCP Not doing EXACTLY what the players are telling them to do" show complete lack of understanding of an unfortunate situatuion.
Statements like this, "I think it's more about "CCP Not doing EXACTLY what the players are telling them to do" show complete lack of understanding of an unfortunate situatuion.
Lack of understanding on what end? ;-)
So true! I just hope there is enough understanding to keep EVE from becoming STO.
Comments
I am not a vet but
100%
I do think about it just I do not think in small frame of subjective perception of single, disgruntled player.
You base your argument on invalid assumption that the game is not changing and reflect the game changes against the state of the game at some given point in past.
There are many EVE players that have quit in 2005 because the game was not the same as in 2003, and same way there are many thatr quit the game in 2008 because the game was not the same as 2005, etc...you see the pattern.
This happens all the time. Nothing new, just some people are about their leave more vocal than others.
So the vets leave and the game will be(supposedly) with less politics but with more other stuff, so what? The game is changing, constantly. You either keep your sub or you won't. Usual business.
TL;DR I mad/sad.
Sorry about :longpost: but it's a somewhat complex matter and it's got some history behind it. This is just from my viewpoint mind you so feel free to correct mistakes or even dismiss this as the ramblings of a "bittervet."
Been playing since April of 2004 (a few minor breaks) and I'm one of the oddballs, I only have 1 account.
After I did a little reading on the leaked letter, the blogs and some of the other documentation, I closed that one account.
EVE has been my game, my hobby, hell it's almost been my life as it's been quite a bit more interesting than many parts of my RL. I've participated in battles which decided the fate of entire regions, fought along side thousands against thousands, all in the same system on the same server (and yes, there was terrible lag) and I've made some very good friends through the years.
That same game which has brought me so much joy and satisfaction with it's complexity, community and ever evolving universe basically just shat on me and many others just like me.
I am not rich, nor do I wish to invest ever larger sums into a game just so I can remain competative. Over the years I have specifically kept myself subbed to EVE even when I was not playing because I actually believed in CCP and in EVE, in the direction they were taking it. That started to change over the last year or two. Waaaay back in the day, it used to take whole groups of people working together to get most things done (taking space, building big projects, etc.)
Now, all it takes is someone with a whole lotta cash and the willingness to part with it. When they introduced PLEX, they sold it as a way to fight Macro/gold farmers (Plex is basically game time codes you can buy with in game isk, or sell for in game isk if you have lots of RL money). Many in EVE were not happy with this but we wanted to help CCP in the fight against RMT and botters/macros. Has it helped? I don't think it has done nearly enough as pretty much every alliance out in 0.0 is infested with, or openly renting space to the Macro abusers/RMT traders.
Next up, is Super-Caps. Before the advent of Capital ships, there was a fairly level playing field. The biggest ship out there was a battleship and with about 3-6 months of training and a bit of effort, you and everyone else could get into one. Then came Capital ships, Dreads and Carriers, basically quadruple to 8 times the cost of a battleship with longer training times. Then came Supercaps, Titans and Motherships. For lack of a better term, they are solo-pwnmobiles. The only thing capable of countering a Titan or a Mothership is a support fleet AND another (or multiple) Titans and Motherships. The costs for these beasts is outrageous ensuring that only a the top tier...heh, more like top spending players have access to them. Not to mention you can't dock them so whatever character you put in them is pretty much logged off all the time until you need them.
Finally, came the most recent fiasco. They introduced the NEX store which allows players to buy vanity items using PLEX (real money basically) to buy monocles and shirts and what not (mind you at stupidly inflated prices.) This in itself wouldn't have been so bad, there would have been grumbling but if people want to dump cash on playing dress up, more power to them. It was the sudden introduction of the store combined with CCP's silence when the players rightfully asked "Didn't you say no Micro Transactions? If you broke that promise, well then do you still mean to keep your proimse about no game-rules affecting items in the Micro transaction store?"
Basically one question was asked, over and over again... "Will you ever sell game/rule affecting items (i.e. non vanity) in the Micro Transaction store?" Utter. Silence. When they did finally respond, after some rather disparaging remarks contained in some leaked documents, they did not even ATTEMPT to address the explicitly stated concerns of the customer base. Basically we got a giant middle finger.
So many folks, myself included, decided to take a page from CCP's newly released "book" and let them watch what we DO instead of listen to what we SAY. We walked out, cancelled our subs. Do I want it to end this way? Hell no, I love EVE and I miss the quirky, awesome, friendly developers known as CCP. Sadly they seem to have become Cash Cow Productions now and as the story goes on, more and more long-simmering concerns are being brought up to yet more stalling and silence. I love EVE, and damn I'm going to miss it but CCP won't be getting another dime from me until they can prove without a doubt that they are developing, managing and continuing to expand EVE to make it the best it can be to benefit the maximum number of people possible (and not spending all the sub-money and development time on their other games at the EXPENSE of EVE). Until then, I'll look back with fond memories and a tightly closed wallet.
(edited cuz I suk at spelin)
So people are up in arms because they now have the option to buy some completely insignificant cosmetic item?
I've said it before and i'll say it again, you people need to get over your obsessive hatred with cash shops.
2500 accounts is 37.500 $/euros less per month. How much have they made selling 52 monocles?
My gaming blog
No, there are a number of items leading to this alleged exodus of players.
Cash Shop - Expensive items in cash shop is one thing, the other is the leaked mail indicating that Eve might sell more than just fluff items in the cash shop.
License fees for third party sites - CCP has acknowledged that the proposal will be changed but still it caused alot of angry people.
CCP not listening to their players and their CSM (those player representetives) and in another leaked mail saying that it is not what the players say is what it is important but rather what they do.
Incarna and the captains quarters. Many see it as a useless fluff feature with the main purpose to push the cash shope and are actually turning it of.
Put all these factors together and you got an angry mob, as was evident in the recent Jira protests.
My gaming blog
So....people are leaving even after CCP's latest reply?
That seems weird, since they have actually stated to review the system and the direction of it in a meeting with the council.
Do people actually follow these things, or are they just jumping the bandwagon?
It isn't close to official in a least bit as those are not official at all.
Actually, you both have nothing
. Which makes topics like this pointless.
The point is, zymurgeist never claimed he's got anything. And you don't need to have numbers to point out other numbers being invalid ;-)
So not only are people raving about cash shops but also about overturned decisions, CCP stating (Quite rightly) that only what players do matter and new content.
There we go, lost my faith in mmo gamers altogether, you people will complain about anything.
I was just throwing the guy a bone. I know you don't need proof to state that the numbers are......a guess at best. Non-factual, unofficial, etc.
Still makes this topic pointless.
EDIT: Factual, not factional, derp!
I think it's more about "CCP Not doing EXACTLY what the players are telling them to do", rather than "CCP listening to the players".
Ive seen a lot of "vets" using their character age to somehow be more important than everyone else. I say good riddance to those lot.
I'm still waiting for all of Incarna to launch and then'll be JOINING the darn game.
I don't care what a pair of pants costs in a Cash shop... I won't buy them? Guh.
I just finally tried the character creator and captain's quarters... Ihave a character now who looks EXACTLY like Natalie Portman... No way I'm not playing this game when it launches Incarna 100%
From the perspective of guesstimate validity, yes, that is pointless. However, you can assume that the numbers are correct and consider it as a premise for further theory crafting. That isn't completely unreasonable and pointless.
I already posted my thoughts on this in another post, but people are starting to see CCP for what they are. I saw the light about 3 yrs ago and said so long, as have all the people I played with during the 6 yrs I played (counting beta). They are losing numbers and the players they are losing are the vets. Myself and friends of mine are getting the "Come back to Eve" emails every other month with free reactivation offers for 5 - 10 days.
I would say the vets are very important and can't be replaced that easily. Those that have been playing for a very long time have accumulated massive amounts of skill points and knowledge that can't be replaced, other than by someone who has been playing the same amount of time. It will have a ripple effect so in CCP's best interest they need to cater to the players that got them this far.
EVE is a good game, but if you can't trust the company that runs it, then it's not for me.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Agreed, but none of these cancellation-numbers topics as advertised as such. They are used as a factual argument to prove that CCP is failing and EvE is dying.
Which is just wrong and......childish, really.
Heartily agree.
Sometimes I have to doubt the 'vet' label people stick on themselves because if they truly were veteran players, they must have seen quite a few similar rages...
My two accounts have been unsubbed, depends on CCP for how long.
If they go through with NeX while grabbing money from a subscription then I'm off... this is just pure greed!
The discussion here sounds an awful lot like the discussions that took place over SWG, and we see now how that's working out for them.
Don't think CCP will implement game breaking changes to the game? SOE did, thinking it'd make all kinds of money.......yeah.
Fact is, business is a risk, I can appreciate that. Stock holders want more money, I can appreciate that too. But what has made EvE successful is the fact that they do NOT emulate other games in how it operates. Why throw away actual money in hand to chase after "possible" sales. SWG did it (NGE) and it blew up in their faces. Learn from SOE's history and don't repeat it!!!
That's just silly because there have been many good articles on this subject.
Several years ago, CCP began making decisions that many players felt were not in the best interest of the game they played.
It started with much less attention on Null sec activates ( the speed nerf might have been the first shot across the bow ), and moved first toward a focus on hi-sec, and then towards a focus on projects outside of EVE.
Players have accepted the rational for all of this and stayed loyal to this company, and all they are asking is that the integrity of the player driven economy be maintained.
Statements like this, "I think it's more about "CCP Not doing EXACTLY what the players are telling them to do" show complete lack of understanding of an unfortunate situatuion.
So EVE is P2P + expensive vanity cash shop now.
If the CCP council finish their round table meeting in Iceland and they decide "No gameplay-affecting items in cash shop", then will the disappointed players say "Yes, we won! EVE is P2P+ pricy vanity cash shop but there won´t be gamechanging items in the shop"?
Doesn´t sadism work like this? Take 100 x from a lost soul. Then after a while give him 50 x back, and the lost soul will be thankful.
It reminds me a bit of the RealID event in WoW.
Lack of understanding on what end? ;-)
So true! I just hope there is enough understanding to keep EVE from becoming STO.
I asked a question, made no statement, how can you answer "So true!" ? lol