OP just hates SW:TOR, just look some of his recent threads. There are some bad apples in EVERY community but saying this game is on track to have the worst is a joke. Nothing will ever compare to WoW when it comes to bad community, everyone knows this.
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Mixed together in a 90% solo based experience, with very little interdependency or need to 'get on', and given a global chat channel to fight in....
No, it's just these MMORPG forums in particular, especially when people LIE like this.
Please do not call me a liar, unless you have evidenceof it.
What play systems/ design decisions do you see in place in this game that contrdicts anything I have said? are you arguing that this game isnt 90% solo?
Please do no present statements as if they're the truth unless you have proof that it's more than your own heavily biased opinion.
If you don't have proof, then it shows just how heavily biased and colored your viewpoint is. To some who see posters make such statement for which they have no proof like that ridiculous 90% figure, it does sound like lying, like the guy you quoted.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Mixed together in a 90% solo based experience, with very little interdependency or need to 'get on', and given a global chat channel to fight in....
No, it's just these MMORPG forums in particular, especially when people LIE like this.
Please do not call me a liar, unless you have evidenceof it.
What play systems/ design decisions do you see in place in this game that contrdicts anything I have said? are you arguing that this game isnt 90% solo?
Please do no present statements as if they're the truth unless you have proof that it's more than your own heavily biased opinion.
If you don't have proof, then it shows just how heavily biased and colored your viewpoint is. To some who see posters make such statement for which they have no proof like that ridiculous 90% figure, it does sound like lying, like the guy you quoted.
what 'bias' do you think I have ffs?
what agenda?
I have already told you I will be playing, and underlined that I think this game will be a massive success.
whats your problem with objective discussion?
Can you please point me to all the group content that makes me a liar please? The content that outweighs the solo somuch that you call others liars?
It's actually the sandbox /SWG vets and jaded, burntout WoW-style themepark haters that come up with all kinds of irrelevant or often completely nonsensical and illogical arguments that trigger debates into unconstructive polarized ones, they are the ones who keep following and posting on a game they don't even like enough to play, often even more than they post on games they do like to play. But that last one is maybe because there's hardly any MMO around that they do like to play, a lot of them aren't playing MMO's atm for nothing, so I give you that.
{mod edit}
For someone complaining about people repeating themselves, you sure seem to do it quite a bit. All of your threads about SW:TOR have been rediculous assumptions and just shows how biased you really are. Maybe you should re-read all your posts to understand how silly they really are. This game is going to be a major success initially wether you like it or not. Stop trying to deter people from playing this game. Other wise you are going to be one of the reasons the community is bad.
Karasu Linkshell for Final fantasy 14 now accepting all members! Just head on over to karasuls.shivtr.com and apply now! Linkshell info is on the site.
Can you please point me to all the group content that makes me a liar please? The content that outweighs the solo somuch that you call others liars?
This is the problem, we don't know, if we don't know, how can we argue the point? You're presenting it as you do know, so if you do know, which would mean you actually played the entirety of the game, why even ask us?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
OP just hates SW:TOR, just look some of his recent threads. There are some bad apples in EVERY community but saying this game is on track to have the worst is a joke. Nothing will ever compare to WoW when it comes to bad community, everyone knows this.
Excuse me? Please show me where I have shown hate towards this game in my 'recent threads'?
OP just hates SW:TOR, just look some of his recent threads. There are some bad apples in EVERY community but saying this game is on track to have the worst is a joke. Nothing will ever compare to WoW when it comes to bad community, everyone knows this.
Excuse me? Please show me where I have shown hate towards this game in my 'recent threads'?
"Once you get past the SW skin, and the story telling aspect (both of which can be modded in), SWToR obviously plays very much like a Cryptic game."
We all know how bad cryptic is when it comes to making games, anyone unbiased can obviously see the hate and this is only one of the many.
Karasu Linkshell for Final fantasy 14 now accepting all members! Just head on over to karasuls.shivtr.com and apply now! Linkshell info is on the site.
Maybe its just me, but personally I'll take overly defensive fanbois and casuals over people who only put forth a continuous and pointless litany of bitching about a game they have no intention of ever playing, any day of the week.
Well, for one I have clearly stated on these forums I intend on playing, if your talking about me.
But intending on playing dosent mean I can not take an objective and realistic view of the conseuences of the play systems they have in place.
I guess you think saying anything but crawl up it's arse perfect praise about SWtoR is 'bitching' though.
Maybe you saw yourself in the first of the categories I spoke about. I don't know.
Nope, that comment was simply a general description of the behavior we have seen on these forums. You only bothered to criticize one of the negative aspects of the community so I felt a little balancing of the scales was in order. Population jackassery in a game or on forums about the game is a doubled edged sword, where extremists on both sides make intelligent conversation by those of us with a more logical outlook, damn near impossible.
One sided posts such as yours serve only as flamebait and do not contribute much to relevent discussion about the game. All I'm doing is showing that there are two sides to the coin so maybe some useful understanding can come from this thread.
I'm on record several times as slagging off both the most slavish fanbois and the most vitriol spewing haters of this game on these forums. I'd also like to think I've been a pretty harsh (yet fair) critic of this game.
So before you resort to even more childish insults that only weaken your argument, how about you try reading and thinking about what I've said before your next response.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Hardcore ultra defensive BW/ SW fanbois on one side, taking offense at any percieved slight to 'their' game.
Shiny new game casuals attracted by the Star wars brand that are just there for the lulz and to pretty much troll their way through the experience before they quit at the end of the free play, on the other.
Mixed together in a 90% solo based experience, with very little interdependency or need to 'get on', and given a global chat channel to fight in....
What social tools/ mechanisms can BW introduce to help this potentiol situation?
No, it's just these MMORPG forums in particular, especially when people LIE like this.
Please do not call me a liar, unless you have evidenceof it.
What play systems/ design decisions do you see in place in this game that contrdicts anything I have said? are you arguing that this game isnt 90% solo?
Flashpoints, operations, world arcs, you can group on any of the quests and also your class story.
Maybe its just me, but personally I'll take overly defensive fanbois and casuals over people who only put forth a continuous and pointless litany of bitching about a game they have no intention of ever playing, any day of the week.
Well, for one I have clearly stated on these forums I intend on playing, if your talking about me.
But intending on playing dosent mean I can not take an objective and realistic view of the conseuences of the play systems they have in place.
I guess you think saying anything but crawl up it's arse perfect praise about SWtoR is 'bitching' though.
Maybe you saw yourself in the first of the categories I spoke about. I don't know.
Nope, that comment was simply a general description of the behavior we have seen on these forums. You only bothered to criticize one of the negative aspects of the community so I felt a little balancing of the scales was in order. Population jackassery in a game or on forums about the game is a doubled edged sword, where extremists on both sides make intelligent conversation by those of us with a more logical outlook, damn near impossible.
One sided posts such as yours serve only as flamebait and do not contribute much to relevent discussion about the game. All I'm doing is showing that there are two sides to the coin so maybe some useful understanding can come from this thread.
I'm on record several times as slagging off both the most slavish fanbois and the most vitriol spewing haters of this game on these forums. I'd also like to think I've been a pretty harsh (yet fair) critic of this game.
So before you resort to even more childish insults that only weaken your argument, how about you try reading and thinking about what I've said before your next response.
You're my hero tardcore.
Karasu Linkshell for Final fantasy 14 now accepting all members! Just head on over to karasuls.shivtr.com and apply now! Linkshell info is on the site.
Maybe its just me, but personally I'll take overly defensive fanbois and casuals over people who only put forth a continuous and pointless litany of bitching about a game they have no intention of ever playing, any day of the week.
Well, for one I have clearly stated on these forums I intend on playing, if your talking about me.
But intending on playing dosent mean I can not take an objective and realistic view of the conseuences of the play systems they have in place.
I guess you think saying anything but crawl up it's arse perfect praise about SWtoR is 'bitching' though.
Maybe you saw yourself in the first of the categories I spoke about. I don't know.
Nope, that comment was simply a general description of the behavior we have seen on these forums. You only bothered to criticize one of the negative aspects of the community so I felt a little balancing of the scales was in order. Population jackassery in a game or on forums about the game is a doubled edged sword, where extremists on both sides make intelligent conversation by those of us with a more logical outlook, damn near impossible.
One sided posts such as yours serve only as flamebait and do not contribute much to relevent discussion about the game. All I'm doing is showing that there are two sides to the coin so maybe some useful understanding can come from this thread.
I'm on record several times as slagging off both the most slavish fanbois and the most vitriol spewing haters of this game on these forums. I'd also like to think I've been a pretty harsh (yet fair) critic of this game.
So before you resort to even more childish insults that only weaken your argument, how about you try reading and thinking about what I've said before your next response.
There are a number of flamebait posts in the TOR forums, for sure. I'm all for good discussions on a game. But when one create titles/threads that are for the sole purpose of bashing to incite others, like some do here, it's just silly.
Hardcore ultra defensive BW/ SW fanbois on one side, taking offense at any percieved slight to 'their' game.
Shiny new game casuals attracted by the Star wars brand that are just there for the lulz and to pretty much troll their way through the experience before they quit at the end of the free play, on the other.
Mixed together in a 90% solo based experience, with very little interdependency or need to 'get on', and given a global chat channel to fight in....
What social tools/ mechanisms can BW introduce to help this potentiol situation?
No, it's just these MMORPG forums in particular, especially when people LIE like this.
Please do not call me a liar, unless you have evidenceof it.
What play systems/ design decisions do you see in place in this game that contrdicts anything I have said? are you arguing that this game isnt 90% solo?
Flashpoints, operations, world arcs, you can group on any of the quests and also your class story.
Flashpoints, and the others, are spot occurances which happen now and again. they do NOT constutute the bulk of play
The fact that you are listing solo content (because it 'can' be grouped) as group content shows me that you ran out pretty early of evidence,and that you missed the point of what I am saying in the OP.
Nope, that comment was simply a general description of the behavior we have seen on these forums. You only bothered to criticize one of the negative aspects of the community so I felt a little balancing of the scales was in order. Population jackassery in a game or on forums about the game is a doubled edged sword, where extremists on both sides make intelligent conversation by those of us with a more logical outlook, damn near impossible.
One sided posts such as yours serve only as flamebait and do not contribute much to relevent discussion about the game. All I'm doing is showing that there are two sides to the coin so maybe some useful understanding can come from this thread.
I'm on record several times as slagging off both the most slavish fanbois and the most vitriol spewing haters of this game on these forums. I'd also like to think I've been a pretty harsh (yet fair) critic of this game.
So before you resort to even more childish insults that only weaken your argument, how about you try reading and thinking about what I've said before your next response.
He seems to only reply to responses that are heated, he skips over any statement that argues against his actual point. That says enough that he's only in it for his perosnal lawls.
His entire point is an attack on the SWTOR community, yet he's trying to present it as a solid argument, not to mention he knows as much as anyone, yet offers his opinion up as fact, if you don't agree, you're unable to accept the games flaws and a fanboi.
I think it's pretty obvious he is only baiting people.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Flashpoints, and the others, are spot occurances which happen now and again. they do NOT constutute the bulk of play
The fact that you are listing solo content (because it 'can' be grouped) as group content shows me that you ran out pretty early of evidence,and that you missed the point of what I am saying in the OP.
You asked how they are handling it, did you miss where I said they are offering incentives to group? You are rewarded for doing so. This says to me they are attempting to encourage people to come together.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Maybe its just me, but personally I'll take overly defensive fanbois and casuals over people who only put forth a continuous and pointless litany of bitching about a game they have no intention of ever playing, any day of the week.
Well, for one I have clearly stated on these forums I intend on playing, if your talking about me.
But intending on playing dosent mean I can not take an objective and realistic view of the conseuences of the play systems they have in place.
I guess you think saying anything but crawl up it's arse perfect praise about SWtoR is 'bitching' though.
Maybe you saw yourself in the first of the categories I spoke about. I don't know.
Nope, that comment was simply a general description of the behavior we have seen on these forums.
I am actually not talking about these forums.Any experienced MMOer will understand the potentiol community issues of solo focused play, a rabid fanboi following, and a shiny new game that attracts casuals for amonth.
You only bothered to criticize one of the negative aspects of the community so I felt a little balancing of the scales was in order.
I actually didnt speak about the current community at all... I said this game has the POTENTIOL to be a terrible one.
the conversation was about what can BW do to encourage that not to happen.
In your need to be sanctmonious and preach to me you have missed the very basic discussion thats being offered and have chosen to take a hostile and derogatory tone.
Hardcore ultra defensive BW/ SW fanbois on one side, taking offense at any percieved slight to 'their' game.
Shiny new game casuals attracted by the Star wars brand that are just there for the lulz and to pretty much troll their way through the experience before they quit at the end of the free play, on the other.
Mixed together in a 90% solo based experience, with very little interdependency or need to 'get on', and given a global chat channel to fight in....
What social tools/ mechanisms can BW introduce to help this potentiol situation?
No, it's just these MMORPG forums in particular, especially when people LIE like this.
Please do not call me a liar, unless you have evidenceof it.
What play systems/ design decisions do you see in place in this game that contrdicts anything I have said? are you arguing that this game isnt 90% solo?
Flashpoints, operations, world arcs, you can group on any of the quests and also your class story.
Flashpoints, and the others, are spot occurances which happen now and again. they do NOT constutute the bulk of play
The fact that you are listing solo content (because it 'can' be grouped) as group content shows me that you ran out pretty early of evidence,and that you missed the point of what I am saying in the OP.
You have no proof of this and the 90% statement was pulled out of thin air.
For everyone who has been following these forums, it's a given that there's a lot of people hanging around it who a) don't like themepark MMO's or b) are hardcore sandbox fans/SWG vets or c) don't like SWTOR at all, and that's putting it mildly, very mildly.
As for yourself, let's take a look, shall we?
- You don't like SWTOR, not really, not much, it isn't your favorite kind of gameplay design, far from it
- even if you don't hold much likeness for SWTOR or feel like it'll be a solo player game, you'll still be (grudginly) playing it if some friends of you'll play it.
- which makes me wonder if you'd even play this game for itself if your friends wouldn't play it, but hey, I don't know
- then you start (again) with some false assumptions and fallacies like that SWTOR will be 90% solo player game and insulting SWTOR fans of fanboism.
Then you go around insulting everyone who disagrees with your opinion directly and then have the audacity to say that you want an actual discussion?? Are you for real?
If you wanted an actual discussion, you wouldn't have insulted a large group of the people that you wanted to have the discussion with, you would have stated your arguments differently and refrained from outright lying like that SWTOR is 90% solo player and you wouldn't have repeatedly insulted other posters who posted their own opinion in your thread.
In short, you'd have posted your comments more mature and more neutral than you did. Since you didn't, it seems like it's flamebaiting and controversy that you were really looking for, as well as aggravating and insulting SWTOR fans that you happen to disagree with. It's people like you who help fuel the very thing you were complaining about.
If you want to support a healthier, more constructive community, then you should start posing your arguments and hold your debates in a civilized adult manner.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Mixed together in a 90% solo based experience, with very little interdependency or need to 'get on', and given a global chat channel to fight in....
No, it's just these MMORPG forums in particular, especially when people LIE like this.
Please do not call me a liar, unless you have evidenceof it.
What play systems/ design decisions do you see in place in this game that contrdicts anything I have said? are you arguing that this game isnt 90% solo?
Please do no present statements as if they're the truth unless you have proof that it's more than your own heavily biased opinion.
If you don't have proof, then it shows just how heavily biased and colored your viewpoint is. To some who see posters make such statement for which they have no proof like that ridiculous 90% figure, it does sound like lying, like the guy you quoted.
what 'bias' do you think I have ffs?
what agenda?
I have already told you I will be playing, and underlined that I think this game will be a massive success.
whats your problem with objective discussion?
Can you please point me to all the group content that makes me a liar please? The content that outweighs the solo somuch that you call others liars?
It's quite ironic how you overreact to this.
You asked "What play systems/ design decisions do you see in place in this game that contrdicts anything I have said? are you arguing that this game isnt 90% solo?"
Let me counter that by asking you what made you think it will be 90% solo? It is your bold statement in the first place
Have you read into the available information? Did you get the memo's about flashpoints, operations, instanced and world pvp, heroic quests (which are impossible to solo) amongst other things?
You look too deeply into the significance of personal storylines and companions in my humble opinion. (The personal storylines being in no way more solo than the leveling proces people go through in most other themepark mmorpgs).
edit: forgot about some other specific mechanics promoting group play: social points, group interaction in npc conversation (even remotely) and commending other players when they did a good job in pvp.
I am actually not talking about these forums.Any experienced MMOer will understand the potentiol community issues of solo focused play, a rabid fanboi following, and a shiny new game that attracts casuals for amonth.
I actually didnt speak about the current community at all... I said this game has the POTENTIOL to be a terrible one.
the conversation was about what can BW do to encourage that not to happen.
In your need to be sanctmonious and preach to me you have missed the very basic discussion thats being offered and have chosen to take a hostile and derogatory tone.
You didn't specify at all who you were talking about, you made a statement and left it at that, that's the problem with broad sweeping generalizations.
Your thread started off with what could easily be perceived as an insult on the community that dicusses TOR, not just here but anywhere.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Maybe its just me, but personally I'll take overly defensive fanbois and casuals over people who only put forth a continuous and pointless litany of bitching about a game they have no intention of ever playing, any day of the week.
Well, for one I have clearly stated on these forums I intend on playing, if your talking about me.
But intending on playing dosent mean I can not take an objective and realistic view of the conseuences of the play systems they have in place.
I guess you think saying anything but crawl up it's arse perfect praise about SWtoR is 'bitching' though.
Maybe you saw yourself in the first of the categories I spoke about. I don't know.
Nope, that comment was simply a general description of the behavior we have seen on these forums.
I am actually not talking about these forums.Any experienced MMOer will understand the potentiol community issues of solo focused play, a rabid fanboi following, and a shiny new game that attracts casuals for amonth.
You only bothered to criticize one of the negative aspects of the community so I felt a little balancing of the scales was in order.
I actually didnt speak about the current community at all... I said this game has the POTENTIOL to be a terrible one.
the conversation was about what can BW do to encourage that not to happen.
In your need to be sanctmonious and preach to me you have missed the very basic discussion thats being offered and have chosen to take a hostile and derogatory tone.
Every community has the potential to be horrid, the best community games are usually the harder ones, as they do not attract children and all the bads who cry when they lose at anything. Trying to discuss the potential of something is futile and completely pointless as it will result it less then nothing. Oh and btw, all your little statements in the OP are nothing but speculation and a complete waste of time, you have no facts. You never did and you won't until you actually do some reading on this game.
Karasu Linkshell for Final fantasy 14 now accepting all members! Just head on over to karasuls.shivtr.com and apply now! Linkshell info is on the site.
Hardcore ultra defensive BW/ SW fanbois on one side, taking offense at any percieved slight to 'their' game.
Shiny new game casuals attracted by the Star wars brand that are just there for the lulz and to pretty much troll their way through the experience before they quit at the end of the free play, on the other.
Mixed together in a 90% solo based experience, with very little interdependency or need to 'get on', and given a global chat channel to fight in....
What social tools/ mechanisms can BW introduce to help this potentiol situation?
Yes, but it won't be the 'fanbois' who are the problem, are at least they're not the problem because they're 'fanbois'. If the forums are any example there is a huge amount of immature people waiting to play TOR. It has nothing to do with fans of the game, nor critics who probably won't even play the game, but rather a lot of immature players. I guess this is an issue with any game that has a large population, but I have to admit it seems worse in the TOR forums than I've seen in any other game. So yes, I have concerns and hope Bioware does have tools to fight the problem.
As for what solutions I would suggest? First of all there should be no global chat channels. Keep the channels confined to individual worlds. That obviously won't solve the problem but it will cut down on the nonsense a bit. Of course they should give players tools to block/ignore other players, as well as the ability to turn some channels on and/or off. Other than that I can't really think of anything. Other than heavy moderation which is generally unlikely, especially if the forums are any example, then I can't think of any other tools that might be helpful.
Why is it you always look for something to criticize in this game? I've never seen you write a postive post even tho I've seen you say you have nothing against this game and hope it succeeds, but your posts suggest otherwise. I'm curious as to what's up with all the negativity you have toward this game? You've actually managed to find a real problem in this post, tho you did get the cause partially wrong so congratulations on that...I guess. Still, I'd like to know why your posts on the game are always so negative.
For someone complaining about people repeating themselves, you sure seem to do it quite a bit. All of your threads about SW:TOR have been rediculous assumptions and just shows how biased you really are. Maybe you should re-read all your posts to understand how silly they really are. This game is going to be a major success initially wether you like it or not. Stop trying to deter people from playing this game. Other wise you are going to be one of the reasons the community is bad.
{mod edit}
{mod edit}
Just face it that more people point you to the obvious things that I already was pointing you, namely that if you really wanted to contribute to a healthy, constructive community you'd present your arguments and debates differently.
Originally posted by Tardcore
One sided posts such as yours serve only as flamebait and do not contribute much to relevent discussion about the game. All I'm doing is showing that there are two sides to the coin so maybe some useful understanding can come from this thread.
I'm on record several times as slagging off both the most slavish fanbois and the most vitriol spewing haters of this game on these forums. I'd also like to think I've been a pretty harsh (yet fair) critic of this game.
And this.
I often disagree with Tardcore and have had some heated debates with Tardcore in the past, but at least he tries to see things from 2 sides and not only his own viewpoint. I can respect that.
And personally I prefer it, people who can have that kind of balance in their debates.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Hardcore ultra defensive BW/ SW fanbois on one side, taking offense at any percieved slight to 'their' game.
Shiny new game casuals attracted by the Star wars brand that are just there for the lulz and to pretty much troll their way through the experience before they quit at the end of the free play, on the other.
Mixed together in a 90% solo based experience, with very little interdependency or need to 'get on', and given a global chat channel to fight in....
What social tools/ mechanisms can BW introduce to help this potentiol situation?
Yes, but it won't be the 'fanbois' who are the problem, are at least they're not the problem because they're 'fanbois'. If the forums are any example there is a huge amount of immature people waiting to play TOR. It has nothing to do with fans of the game, nor critics who probably won't even play the game, but rather a lot of immature players. I guess this is an issue with any game that has a large population, but I have to admit it seems worse in the TOR forums than I've seen in any other game. So yes, I have concerns and hope Bioware does have tools to fight the problem.
As for what solutions I would suggest? First of all there should be no global chat channels. Keep the channels confined to individual worlds. That obviously won't solve the problem but it will cut down on the nonsense a bit. Of course they should give players tools to block/ignore other players, as well as the ability to turn some channels on and/or off. Other than that I can't really think of anything. Other than heavy moderation which is generally unlikely, especially if the forums are any example, then I can't think of any other tools that might be helpful.
Why is it you always look for something to criticize in this game? I've never seen you write a postive post even tho I've seen you say you have nothing against this game and hope it succeeds, but your posts suggest otherwise. I'm curious as to what's up with all the negativity you have toward this game? You've actually managed to find a real problem in this post, tho you did get the cause partially wrong so congratulations on that...I guess. Still, I'd like to know why your posts on the game are always so negative.
Exactly.
Karasu Linkshell for Final fantasy 14 now accepting all members! Just head on over to karasuls.shivtr.com and apply now! Linkshell info is on the site.
Flashpoints, and the others, are spot occurances which happen now and again. they do NOT constutute the bulk of play
The fact that you are listing solo content (because it 'can' be grouped) as group content shows me that you ran out pretty early of evidence,and that you missed the point of what I am saying in the OP.
You asked how they are handling it, did you miss where I said they are offering incentives to group? You are rewarded for doing so. This says to me they are attempting to encourage people to come together.
What I've heard from people who have actually played the game, I haven't, is it's more fun when you group. Any incentive beyond that seems inconsequential to me. What this has to do with the community escapes me. Being forced to group with random jerks is far more intrusive than being allowed to solo and avoid them. I fail to see a problem with the game and the forums, as I have said, are irrelevant.
I won't argue with you there, I just group with guildies personally, always have always will. SO, it is irrelevant, those who like to group will, those who don't won't, but still get rewarded for doing so if they choose to.
Edit- as for what it has to do with the OP's question it was in reference to this part.
What social tools/ mechanisms can BW introduce to help this potentiol situation?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Maybe its just me, but personally I'll take overly defensive fanbois and casuals over people who only put forth a continuous and pointless litany of bitching about a game they have no intention of ever playing, any day of the week.
Well, for one I have clearly stated on these forums I intend on playing, if your talking about me.
But intending on playing dosent mean I can not take an objective and realistic view of the conseuences of the play systems they have in place.
I guess you think saying anything but crawl up it's arse perfect praise about SWtoR is 'bitching' though.
Maybe you saw yourself in the first of the categories I spoke about. I don't know.
Nope, that comment was simply a general description of the behavior we have seen on these forums.
I am actually not talking about these forums.Any experienced MMOer will understand the potentiol community issues of solo focused play, a rabid fanboi following, and a shiny new game that attracts casuals for amonth.
Actually you are, where else are you taking your rabid fanboi demographic from if not here.
As an experianced MMOer I understand quite the contrary, since you just described almost every major MMO since 2004. I agree that "rabid fanboi followers" are bad news for any game, I also beleive that rampant haters are just as bad. Look at what happend to Darkfall and Mortal Online, and look what is currently happening to Eve.
As to solocentric game play and causual players, welcome to the reality of the new face of MMOs. Started about 2004 and doesn't look to be going away any time soon. And oddly enough even the poorest of this style of game seems to be doing far better than the majority of the older style MMOs. I'm not saying I'm happy about it, just that from what we have seen such features do not equate failure.
You only bothered to criticize one of the negative aspects of the community so I felt a little balancing of the scales was in order.
I actually didnt speak about the current community at all... I said this game has the POTENTIOL to be a terrible one.
Again where are you getting the rabid fanboi demographic if not from these forums.
the conversation was about what can BW do to encourage that not to happen.
Stated as if it is a foregone conclusion that Bioware needs to do anything at all. Again you have decided in your own head that the current incarnation of the game spells fail, I do not agree. Mainly due to the fact I feel we still don't have enough information on the game to properly judge it. So unless you have some personal hands on experiance I don't, please stop stating opinions as facts.
In your need to be sanctmonious and preach to me you have missed the very basic discussion thats being offered and have chosen to take a hostile and derogatory tone.
I haven't missed anything, I simply don't share your own high opinion of your personal diatribe.
As to being sanctimonious, yeah that seems a fair description of quite a few of my posts here. That doesn't mean my comments are without worth nor unjustified. And considering your contiued spiteful responses to anyone here who isn't lock step with your opinions, I'd say my sactimony here is QUITE justifiable.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Comments
OP just hates SW:TOR, just look some of his recent threads. There are some bad apples in EVERY community but saying this game is on track to have the worst is a joke. Nothing will ever compare to WoW when it comes to bad community, everyone knows this.
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Please do no present statements as if they're the truth unless you have proof that it's more than your own heavily biased opinion.
If you don't have proof, then it shows just how heavily biased and colored your viewpoint is. To some who see posters make such statement for which they have no proof like that ridiculous 90% figure, it does sound like lying, like the guy you quoted.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
what 'bias' do you think I have ffs?
what agenda?
I have already told you I will be playing, and underlined that I think this game will be a massive success.
whats your problem with objective discussion?
Can you please point me to all the group content that makes me a liar please? The content that outweighs the solo somuch that you call others liars?
For someone complaining about people repeating themselves, you sure seem to do it quite a bit. All of your threads about SW:TOR have been rediculous assumptions and just shows how biased you really are. Maybe you should re-read all your posts to understand how silly they really are. This game is going to be a major success initially wether you like it or not. Stop trying to deter people from playing this game. Other wise you are going to be one of the reasons the community is bad.
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This is the problem, we don't know, if we don't know, how can we argue the point? You're presenting it as you do know, so if you do know, which would mean you actually played the entirety of the game, why even ask us?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Excuse me? Please show me where I have shown hate towards this game in my 'recent threads'?
"Once you get past the SW skin, and the story telling aspect (both of which can be modded in), SWToR obviously plays very much like a Cryptic game."
We all know how bad cryptic is when it comes to making games, anyone unbiased can obviously see the hate and this is only one of the many.
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Nope, that comment was simply a general description of the behavior we have seen on these forums. You only bothered to criticize one of the negative aspects of the community so I felt a little balancing of the scales was in order. Population jackassery in a game or on forums about the game is a doubled edged sword, where extremists on both sides make intelligent conversation by those of us with a more logical outlook, damn near impossible.
One sided posts such as yours serve only as flamebait and do not contribute much to relevent discussion about the game. All I'm doing is showing that there are two sides to the coin so maybe some useful understanding can come from this thread.
I'm on record several times as slagging off both the most slavish fanbois and the most vitriol spewing haters of this game on these forums. I'd also like to think I've been a pretty harsh (yet fair) critic of this game.
So before you resort to even more childish insults that only weaken your argument, how about you try reading and thinking about what I've said before your next response.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Flashpoints, operations, world arcs, you can group on any of the quests and also your class story.
In Bioware we trust!
You're my hero tardcore.
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There are a number of flamebait posts in the TOR forums, for sure. I'm all for good discussions on a game. But when one create titles/threads that are for the sole purpose of bashing to incite others, like some do here, it's just silly.
Flashpoints, and the others, are spot occurances which happen now and again. they do NOT constutute the bulk of play
The fact that you are listing solo content (because it 'can' be grouped) as group content shows me that you ran out pretty early of evidence,and that you missed the point of what I am saying in the OP.
He seems to only reply to responses that are heated, he skips over any statement that argues against his actual point. That says enough that he's only in it for his perosnal lawls.
His entire point is an attack on the SWTOR community, yet he's trying to present it as a solid argument, not to mention he knows as much as anyone, yet offers his opinion up as fact, if you don't agree, you're unable to accept the games flaws and a fanboi.
I think it's pretty obvious he is only baiting people.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You asked how they are handling it, did you miss where I said they are offering incentives to group? You are rewarded for doing so. This says to me they are attempting to encourage people to come together.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You have no proof of this and the 90% statement was pulled out of thin air.
In Bioware we trust!
{mod edit}
For everyone who has been following these forums, it's a given that there's a lot of people hanging around it who a) don't like themepark MMO's or b) are hardcore sandbox fans/SWG vets or c) don't like SWTOR at all, and that's putting it mildly, very mildly.
As for yourself, let's take a look, shall we?
- You don't like SWTOR, not really, not much, it isn't your favorite kind of gameplay design, far from it
- even if you don't hold much likeness for SWTOR or feel like it'll be a solo player game, you'll still be (grudginly) playing it if some friends of you'll play it.
- which makes me wonder if you'd even play this game for itself if your friends wouldn't play it, but hey, I don't know
- then you start (again) with some false assumptions and fallacies like that SWTOR will be 90% solo player game and insulting SWTOR fans of fanboism.
Then you go around insulting everyone who disagrees with your opinion directly and then have the audacity to say that you want an actual discussion?? Are you for real?
If you wanted an actual discussion, you wouldn't have insulted a large group of the people that you wanted to have the discussion with, you would have stated your arguments differently and refrained from outright lying like that SWTOR is 90% solo player and you wouldn't have repeatedly insulted other posters who posted their own opinion in your thread.
In short, you'd have posted your comments more mature and more neutral than you did. Since you didn't, it seems like it's flamebaiting and controversy that you were really looking for, as well as aggravating and insulting SWTOR fans that you happen to disagree with. It's people like you who help fuel the very thing you were complaining about.
If you want to support a healthier, more constructive community, then you should start posing your arguments and hold your debates in a civilized adult manner.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It's quite ironic how you overreact to this.
You asked "What play systems/ design decisions do you see in place in this game that contrdicts anything I have said? are you arguing that this game isnt 90% solo?"
Let me counter that by asking you what made you think it will be 90% solo? It is your bold statement in the first place
Have you read into the available information? Did you get the memo's about flashpoints, operations, instanced and world pvp, heroic quests (which are impossible to solo) amongst other things?
You look too deeply into the significance of personal storylines and companions in my humble opinion. (The personal storylines being in no way more solo than the leveling proces people go through in most other themepark mmorpgs).
edit: forgot about some other specific mechanics promoting group play: social points, group interaction in npc conversation (even remotely) and commending other players when they did a good job in pvp.
My brand new bloggity blog.
You didn't specify at all who you were talking about, you made a statement and left it at that, that's the problem with broad sweeping generalizations.
Your thread started off with what could easily be perceived as an insult on the community that dicusses TOR, not just here but anywhere.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Every community has the potential to be horrid, the best community games are usually the harder ones, as they do not attract children and all the bads who cry when they lose at anything. Trying to discuss the potential of something is futile and completely pointless as it will result it less then nothing. Oh and btw, all your little statements in the OP are nothing but speculation and a complete waste of time, you have no facts. You never did and you won't until you actually do some reading on this game.
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Yes, but it won't be the 'fanbois' who are the problem, are at least they're not the problem because they're 'fanbois'. If the forums are any example there is a huge amount of immature people waiting to play TOR. It has nothing to do with fans of the game, nor critics who probably won't even play the game, but rather a lot of immature players. I guess this is an issue with any game that has a large population, but I have to admit it seems worse in the TOR forums than I've seen in any other game. So yes, I have concerns and hope Bioware does have tools to fight the problem.
As for what solutions I would suggest? First of all there should be no global chat channels. Keep the channels confined to individual worlds. That obviously won't solve the problem but it will cut down on the nonsense a bit. Of course they should give players tools to block/ignore other players, as well as the ability to turn some channels on and/or off. Other than that I can't really think of anything. Other than heavy moderation which is generally unlikely, especially if the forums are any example, then I can't think of any other tools that might be helpful.
Why is it you always look for something to criticize in this game? I've never seen you write a postive post even tho I've seen you say you have nothing against this game and hope it succeeds, but your posts suggest otherwise. I'm curious as to what's up with all the negativity you have toward this game? You've actually managed to find a real problem in this post, tho you did get the cause partially wrong so congratulations on that...I guess. Still, I'd like to know why your posts on the game are always so negative.
{mod edit}
Just face it that more people point you to the obvious things that I already was pointing you, namely that if you really wanted to contribute to a healthy, constructive community you'd present your arguments and debates differently.
And this.
I often disagree with Tardcore and have had some heated debates with Tardcore in the past, but at least he tries to see things from 2 sides and not only his own viewpoint. I can respect that.
And personally I prefer it, people who can have that kind of balance in their debates.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Exactly.
Karasu Linkshell for Final fantasy 14 now accepting all members! Just head on over to karasuls.shivtr.com and apply now! Linkshell info is on the site.
I won't argue with you there, I just group with guildies personally, always have always will. SO, it is irrelevant, those who like to group will, those who don't won't, but still get rewarded for doing so if they choose to.
Edit- as for what it has to do with the OP's question it was in reference to this part.
What social tools/ mechanisms can BW introduce to help this potentiol situation?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "