One reason: Bioware thinks a rail shooter is passable as "space combat" in a Star Wars MMO.
If they had actual 3d combat I wouldn't be do down on them. As it is, it's a game design desicion that does not inpire much confidence that SWTOR will be any better than the s**t that was Dragon Age 2.
So you hate on the game because there isn't a space sim on it? ridiculous! GROUND content was always the focus of Bioware, always! You will never see a full space sim in SWTOR, never! You can hope they add other hotspots with more freedom in the future but that's it.
They have a limited budget, they have limited time, welcome to game design a world where you have to make hard choices.
That's by far the most common "rebuttal" -- and frankly, it's BS.
1) Star Wars is a ground and space IP. Some people really jones for the lightsabers and some love to jump to lightspeed. SWG didn't include space at launch (among it's other sins). And SWTOR will launch with a rail shooter -- half-assing in important aspect of the franchise.
2) The "full space sim" straw man is the silliest argument since all Bioware has to do is replicate the X-Wing series: hotspots with 3D flight.
3) limited budget? In $100+M title? What are they spending their money on, hookers and blow?
4) Bioware's been making a lot of bad decisions lately, this is one of them.
At one point SWG had over a million active back when it was a sandbox game, and that number actually grew from there (hazily recollecting 5 million cited somewhere, sometime, but not sure about that figure at all). Bioware announced that the game was not going to be a sand box and that leaves a lot of pissy people upset about the idea that SWTOR won't be SWG the prequel .
On top of that, as others have mentioned, there is some concern that the game play will be too close to WoW and that the game will be WoW with a Star Wars skin. Also, the twitch-based and FPS crew want a game that caters to reflexes and button mashing as opposed to strategically using skills on a toolbar (me, biased, no way ).
I'm sure there are other reasons, but those are the ones I know. They don't make much sense to me, but I suppose their important enough for others to rant over.
If they ever had that many, there would never have been a CU or NGE, lol. I'm pretty sure you meant boxes sold though .... I hope.
Its been like that since i ever started folowing mmo developement back in 2006 ( WAR) .
Some people will bash the game because they are either wow/GW2 fanboi and dont like competition.
Some ppl will defend the game even if they never played because they are so addicted to mmo , they need a fix and put all their hope into the next bandwagon .
To answer the OP's question, I've never really "hated" on SWTOR, though I do currently have a bit of a negative opinion on it. I think that oftentimes gets interpreted as hate. I STILL want to play it though despite this, though I may not be willing to purchase until I get some in-depth reports from people after release.
The thing that has turned me off thus far is the fact that the only thing that really differentiates the game is the story, the voice overs, and the cinematics. Not surprising, this is really Bioware's specialty. But...why is this the focus of an MMO? Those are single player features...
Don't get me wrong, I would gobble this game up if it were a single player game, I love Bioware RPGs (well, not DA2 :P). But it almost seems like the game is a mix of WoW and a Bioware RPG like KOTOR...I just don't think they have a lot of synergy.
I probably couldnt agree any more
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
1) Star Wars is a ground and space IP. Some people really jones for the lightsabers and some love to jump to lightspeed. SWG didn't include space at launch (among it's other sins). And SWTOR will launch with a rail shooter -- half-assing in important aspect of the franchise.
SWG didn't have anything space related at all at its launch.
3) limited budget? In $100+M title? What are they spending their money on, hookers and blow?
How about the largest ingame world of all the AAA themepark MMO's, and that already at its launch?
How about fully unique leveling content per class, enough to make the leveling experience of each of the 8 classes more unique and different from each other than you've ever encountered in an MMORPG?
How about a vastly larger amount of leveling/questing content in total than you've ever encountered in any other themepark MMO, bar maybe WoW? And added to that, a far higher quality and more immersive questing content than the questing content seen in all the other current MMO's?
More questing/leveling content than as good as all other MMO's, a vastly larger ingame world than as good as all other AAA (themepark) MMO's with everything handcrafted and not procedurally generated, that sounds like stuff that can take quite some resources.
To compare: SWTOR looks like to be easily 10 times the worldsize of Rift, and SWTOR's questing content in contrast to that of Rift (or other MMO's) has VO/cutscenes and choices that lead to different outcomes and questlines.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It didn't help matters when the Bioware co-founder essentially stated TOR was a WoW-clone.
Would love to see the link where he specifically mentioned that.
"It [World of Warcraft] is a touchstone. It has established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb." - Greg Zeschuk, at the 2011 D.I.C.E. summit
Except he was talking in terms of production values.
IE a Smooth UI (Wows Ui was smooth at launch)
A polished product
Multiple leveling paths
Multiple end game activities
Gear and character progression
Those sort of things. Basically WoW is a well made game, its not aged well due to its limitations but it is a well made Game, SW TOR will be an evolution on that style, so as some one who enjoyed wow for 5 years before getting bored of it due to those very same limitations and the fact that blizzard seem to have lost interest in it, Yeah I think its a good thing.
Really, what is all the fuss about? Most Bioware games I've heard have gained a lot of praise like the Mass Effect series but then again there are few people who fear it could get trammbled on by anti-social people who've got burn't out on WoW. Have I just missed something that sparked a riot?
Can you be more specific OP(havent read the thread yet).
Are you talking about the hatred towards Star Wars? Or the EA buyout "ruining" the pureness of Bioware? Or the SWTOR-is-too-much-like-WoW-and-Not-enough-like-a-SWG-if-it-worked-right?
Overall, the main thing that is true for all of them, is that a lot of people consider themselves knowledgeable on the subject of what they want. They think they understand good game design, and it makes them furious that the game is not like the game should be in their heads.
Why is there no day/night cycles, why is there no "real" space combat, why cant you play as a wookie, why is too unique to look star wars, why does it look to much like star wars, why is it so close related to WoW, why doesn't it have that/these WoW features?
People often don't think about the consequences when they want something in life. If you want real space combat, it will hurt other parts of the game. when you give something somewhere, you are also taking something from somewhere.
One reason: Bioware thinks a rail shooter is passable as "space combat" in a Star Wars MMO.
If they had actual 3d combat I wouldn't be do down on them. As it is, it's a game design desicion that does not inpire much confidence that SWTOR will be any better than the s**t that was Dragon Age 2.
Because BioWare's Mass Effect and KOTOR games are filled to the brim with full 3D space combat. Really. It's what BioWare specializes in, after all.
Also, if the shit that was Dragon Age 2 is the worst game that BioWare comes up with, they're still leagues better than many other developers. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because it was clearly a rush job. They're focused on ME3 and TOR, so I'm more confident that they'll get those games right.
1) Star Wars is a ground and space IP. Some people really jones for the lightsabers and some love to jump to lightspeed. SWG didn't include space at launch (among it's other sins). And SWTOR will launch with a rail shooter -- half-assing in important aspect of the franchise.
SWG didn't have anything space related at all at its launch.
3) limited budget? In $100+M title? What are they spending their money on, hookers and blow?
How about the largest ingame world of all the AAA themepark MMO's, and that already at its launch?
How about fully unique leveling content per class, enough to make the leveling experience of each of the 8 classes more unique and different from each other than you've ever encountered in an MMORPG?
How about a vastly larger amount of leveling/questing content in total than you've ever encountered in any other themepark MMO, bar maybe WoW? And added to that, a far higher quality and more immersive questing content than the questing content seen in all the other current MMO's?
More questing/leveling content than as good as all other MMO's, a vastly larger ingame world than as good as all other AAA (themepark) MMO's with everything handcrafted and not procedurally generated, that sounds like stuff that can take quite some resources.
To compare: SWTOR looks like to be easily 10 times the worldsize of Rift, and SWTOR's questing content in contrast to that of Rift (or other MMO's) has VO/cutscenes and choices that lead to different outcomes and questlines.
SWG did, however, release a good space system later. They got that part right, albeit their timing of its release was awful.
SWTOR is releaseing something awful from the get go that they're going to have a hard time turning into something good later on. Their belief that "RPGers can't do 3D" is a very bad generalization.
Dumping all their resources into the ground is their decision. It's not one I agree with given the unique properties of the Star Wars franchise. They could have shifted resources into making a flexible 3D space combat system and instead went the cheapest and easiest route to check off being able to slap the words "space combat" on the box. Not to mention that a 2011 AAA title using a 1980's game style that only existed because processors couldn't handle full 3d is an embarrassment.
SWG did, however, release a good space system later. They got that part right, albeit their timing of its release was awful.
SWTOR is releaseing something awful from the get go that they're going to have a hard time turning into something good later on. Their belief that "RPGers can't do 3D" is a very bad generalization.
Dumping all their resources into the ground is their decision. It's not one I agree with given the unique properties of the Star Wars franchise. They could have shifted resources into making a flexible 3D space combat system and instead went the cheapest and easiest route to check off being able to slap the words "space combat" on the box. Not to mention that a 2011 AAA title using a 1980's game style that only existed because processors couldn't handle full 3d is an embarrassment.
Of course SWG's space system was great, they took their time to make sure that when they released it that it'd be good. But it wasn't present at launch. In the same line I didn't see BW say that what there was now at launch would be the be all end all of space combat. It might be, I'd be disappointed if this was all there would be for space combat especially since guild capital ships are planned to be implemented as well, but it isn't what I expect to happen, that the current space combat is all there will be after launch.
Personally I would have liked the space combat to have been more at launch, like some PvP arena zones for example, sort of like the War Zones but then in space with spaceships. But I can live with the tradeoff, with a humongous world to explore that'll be larger than any of the MMO's I have played the last couple of years, and a vast amount of content to play that will make the playing with characters beyond your first a lot more fun and surprising as well. It's better than the space/land combat combination that Cryptic had chosen for their STO.
So I regard the space combat at launch as a minigame that other MMO's don't have, and nothing more to it than that, because that's what it is in its at-release form.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The same question could be asked of the people who claim the game is the bee's knees. Me personally. I don't hate it or like it. What I do know tho....To me Bio-Ware made a few good games. The rest of the games they made felt like they were reskinned versions of previous games. Again, just from my point of view. Their games are heavily scripted, interactive movies. It's like games on rails. I like to save their games and test their "Different choices in dialogue change the outcome of the game." No matter the choice I make it always turns out the same. They make these beautiful worlds in their games, but you are only allowed to walk from one place to another in an invisible tube. Let me walk off the path just once, so I can feel like I am in a living breathing world. Then maybe I'd call Bio-Ware a game company that makes a good RPG.
So me personally, huge Star Wars fan. I have thousands of dollars worth of toys, props and statues. So it's not like I want to see a crappy SW game come out, because I don't. But I am not really a fan of Bio-Ware at all and have never played one of their games and thought to myself "These guys would make a great MMO." But it's a personal thing. People complain about MMO's holding your hand and being too linear. Yet they are ready to eat this game up and praise the crap out of something they haven't played. Eat it up knowing Bio-Ware is the king of linear game making.
Edit: Wanted to add that if it's good I'll try it. But I will wait for reviews before I purchase another MMO. I have a shelf full of "the next best thing." Another reason I refuse to get excited about TOR.
Overall, the main thing that is true for all of them, is that a lot of people consider themselves knowledgeable on the subject of what they want. They think they understand good game design, and it makes them furious that the game is not like the game should be in their heads.
This is so true.
I thought I had an idea of what went into game design until I actually started talking to people who work in the gaming industry, and who have been in it for a while. Seeing actual design documents and Scrum boards and what really goes into the planning and design of a video game was eye-opening for me. It's completely different than what people expect.
We can all imagine the perfect Star Wars game -- or any game, really -- in our heads. We can see space combat, ground combat, diplomacy, etc. But the realities of acutal game design, like the decisions of how to best utilize and maximize the rsources you have, and what you can realistically accomplish with the time and money you've got, means that things have to be planned out and decisions have to be made.
I don't envy the project managers and producers in these games at all, especially with respect to MMOs. Wanting something and being able to do it are two different things, and they have to make a lot of hard calls.
SWG did, however, release a good space system later. They got that part right, albeit their timing of its release was awful.
SWTOR is releaseing something awful from the get go that they're going to have a hard time turning into something good later on. Their belief that "RPGers can't do 3D" is a very bad generalization.
Dumping all their resources into the ground is their decision. It's not one I agree with given the unique properties of the Star Wars franchise. They could have shifted resources into making a flexible 3D space combat system and instead went the cheapest and easiest route to check off being able to slap the words "space combat" on the box. Not to mention that a 2011 AAA title using a 1980's game style that only existed because processors couldn't handle full 3d is an embarrassment.
Of course SWG's space system was great, they took their time to make sure that when they released it that it'd be good. But it wasn't present at launch. In the same line I didn't see BW say that what there was now at launch would be the be all end all of space combat. It might be, I'd be disappointed if this was all there would be for space combat especially since guild capital ships are planned to be implemented as well, but it isn't what I expect to happen, that the current space combat is all there will be after launch.
Personally I would have liked the space combat to have been more at launch, like some PvP arena zones for example, sort of like the War Zones but then in space with spaceships. But I can live with the tradeoff, with a humongous world to explore that'll be larger than any of the MMO's I have played the last couple of years, and a vast amount of content to play that will make the playing with characters beyond your first a lot more fun and surprising as well. It's better than the space/land combat combination that Cryptic had chosen for their STO.
So I regard the space combat at launch as a minigame that other MMO's don't have, and nothing more to it than that, because that's what it is in its at-release form.
The problem is they're releasing space combat as a mini-game, not a full fledged feature. I doubt they'll put in future resoures into making it vastly different, and instead it will always be relegated to a cheap minigame.
Mind you, if they made it 3D flight from the get go (even as dumbed down as Halo Reach), I'd be in the fanboi camp.
SWG did, however, release a good space system later. They got that part right, albeit their timing of its release was awful.
SWTOR is releaseing something awful from the get go that they're going to have a hard time turning into something good later on. Their belief that "RPGers can't do 3D" is a very bad generalization.
Dumping all their resources into the ground is their decision. It's not one I agree with given the unique properties of the Star Wars franchise. They could have shifted resources into making a flexible 3D space combat system and instead went the cheapest and easiest route to check off being able to slap the words "space combat" on the box. Not to mention that a 2011 AAA title using a 1980's game style that only existed because processors couldn't handle full 3d is an embarrassment.
Of course SWG's space system was great, they took their time to make sure that when they released it that it'd be good. But it wasn't present at launch. In the same line I didn't see BW say that what there was now at launch would be the be all end all of space combat. It might be, I'd be disappointed if this was all there would be for space combat especially since guild capital ships are planned to be implemented as well, but it isn't what I expect to happen, that the current space combat is all there will be after launch.
Personally I would have liked the space combat to have been more at launch, like some PvP arena zones for example, sort of like the War Zones but then in space with spaceships. But I can live with the tradeoff, with a humongous world to explore that'll be larger than any of the MMO's I have played the last couple of years, and a vast amount of content to play that will make the playing with characters beyond your first a lot more fun and surprising as well. It's better than the space/land combat combination that Cryptic had chosen for their STO.
So I regard the space combat at launch as a minigame that other MMO's don't have, and nothing more to it than that, because that's what it is in its at-release form.
The problem is they're releasing space combat as a mini-game, not a full fledged feature. I doubt they'll put in future resoures into making it vastly different, and instead it will always be relegated to a cheap minigame.
Mind you, if they made it 3D flight from the get go (even as dumbed down as Halo Reach), I'd be in the fanboi camp.
If SOE can make a semi-fun space component, BioWare would be able to make one x10 better. It's a possibility that a deeper space experience could be added. Afterall, how long after release did it take SOE to get JTL released?
Really, what is all the fuss about? Most Bioware games I've heard have gained a lot of praise like the Mass Effect series but then again there are few people who fear it could get trammbled on by anti-social people who've got burn't out on WoW. Have I just missed something that sparked a riot?
Could also ask ' Why is there fanaticism for a game that's not even out yet?' as the two questions seem to be both sides of the same coin. Just a part of human nature, unfortunately.
If you guys went to the SWTOR forums then you would know that the current space combat is a mini game. They said that depending on the feedback from players, they could add more to outer space stuffs and they also said that the Guild Capital Ship system is under development and they aren't sure what kind of content they can add on to that. If you must need space exploration why not head over the the forums there and post about it?
Also, Bioware didn't make the Space Combat game. It was outsourced.
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If you guys went to the SWTOR forums then you would know that the current space combat is a mini game. They said that depending on the feedback from players, they could add more to outer space stuffs and they also said that the Guild Capital Ship system is under development and they aren't sure what kind of content they can add on to that. If you must need space exploration why not head over the the forums there and post about it? Also, Bioware didn't make the Space Combat game. It was outsourced.
The rule that we kind of violated there, for me, was that we did too big of a jump from what was available. So customers want change, and they want the game experience to change over time, but they typically react badly to huge changes to the game. You leave people behind, and they don't have the time to kind of warm up to it.
so by adding it it in from the start, they can gradually change it
They said that depending on the feedback from players, they could add more to outer space stuffs
You mean like the number of polls that were on the fourms before they showed off this tube shooter, that asked the fourmer goers what kind of space combat they wanted? You know the ones where the rail/tube shooter never got more than 5% of the vote?
Originally posted by Castillle
If you must need space exploration why not head over the the forums there and post about it?
Oh like the all those threads, they closed about a week after the announcement and put in to that one space thread thats one like it's 20th restart?
Edit: Also Gordon Walton is an idiot or just lieing to himself if he believes that JTL caused SWG to fail.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
I gotta add.. why the use blanket generalizations to insult people who once played SWG? it seems to be all the rage at the TOR forums. I think TOR will be a good game and will check it out. But who's really doing all the hate talk here? The TOR fans or the SWG fan?
If TOR fails will you blame SWG fans for messing it up? If it rains did an ex SWG player with native american blood do a rain dance and mess your hair up? scapegoat much?.
I could blame blizzard for giving me worts but it would be pretty whacky to do so. Your not on TOR forums here this site has many a diverse opinion and we are not bound to BW forums goers thuggery that goes on there. I truly can't understand the logic behind this.
If you guys went to the SWTOR forums then you would know that the current space combat is a mini game. They said that depending on the feedback from players, they could add more to outer space stuffs and they also said that the Guild Capital Ship system is under development and they aren't sure what kind of content they can add on to that. If you must need space exploration why not head over the the forums there and post about it? Also, Bioware didn't make the Space Combat game. It was outsourced.
The rule that we kind of violated there, for me, was that we did too big of a jump from what was available. So customers want change, and they want the game experience to change over time, but they typically react badly to huge changes to the game. You leave people behind, and they don't have the time to kind of warm up to it.
so by adding it it in from the start, they can gradually change it
So in other words, they're laying the foundation for more space combat down the line by introducing it as a minigame now?
Makes sense. A fully fleshed out space combat part of the game would have easily doubled BioWare's development time and costs.
Comments
think the million number he is probably thinking of is units sold...not accounts active at one time.
That's by far the most common "rebuttal" -- and frankly, it's BS.
1) Star Wars is a ground and space IP. Some people really jones for the lightsabers and some love to jump to lightspeed. SWG didn't include space at launch (among it's other sins). And SWTOR will launch with a rail shooter -- half-assing in important aspect of the franchise.
2) The "full space sim" straw man is the silliest argument since all Bioware has to do is replicate the X-Wing series: hotspots with 3D flight.
3) limited budget? In $100+M title? What are they spending their money on, hookers and blow?
4) Bioware's been making a lot of bad decisions lately, this is one of them.
If they ever had that many, there would never have been a CU or NGE, lol. I'm pretty sure you meant boxes sold though .... I hope.
You have hardcore blind fanboi
You have haters
Its been like that since i ever started folowing mmo developement back in 2006 ( WAR) .
Some people will bash the game because they are either wow/GW2 fanboi and dont like competition.
Some ppl will defend the game even if they never played because they are so addicted to mmo , they need a fix and put all their hope into the next bandwagon .
I probably couldnt agree any more
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
How about the largest ingame world of all the AAA themepark MMO's, and that already at its launch?
How about fully unique leveling content per class, enough to make the leveling experience of each of the 8 classes more unique and different from each other than you've ever encountered in an MMORPG?
How about a vastly larger amount of leveling/questing content in total than you've ever encountered in any other themepark MMO, bar maybe WoW? And added to that, a far higher quality and more immersive questing content than the questing content seen in all the other current MMO's?
More questing/leveling content than as good as all other MMO's, a vastly larger ingame world than as good as all other AAA (themepark) MMO's with everything handcrafted and not procedurally generated, that sounds like stuff that can take quite some resources.
To compare: SWTOR looks like to be easily 10 times the worldsize of Rift, and SWTOR's questing content in contrast to that of Rift (or other MMO's) has VO/cutscenes and choices that lead to different outcomes and questlines.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Except he was talking in terms of production values.
IE a Smooth UI (Wows Ui was smooth at launch)
A polished product
Multiple leveling paths
Multiple end game activities
Gear and character progression
Those sort of things. Basically WoW is a well made game, its not aged well due to its limitations but it is a well made Game, SW TOR will be an evolution on that style, so as some one who enjoyed wow for 5 years before getting bored of it due to those very same limitations and the fact that blizzard seem to have lost interest in it, Yeah I think its a good thing.
Can you be more specific OP(havent read the thread yet).
Are you talking about the hatred towards Star Wars? Or the EA buyout "ruining" the pureness of Bioware? Or the SWTOR-is-too-much-like-WoW-and-Not-enough-like-a-SWG-if-it-worked-right?
Overall, the main thing that is true for all of them, is that a lot of people consider themselves knowledgeable on the subject of what they want. They think they understand good game design, and it makes them furious that the game is not like the game should be in their heads.
Why is there no day/night cycles, why is there no "real" space combat, why cant you play as a wookie, why is too unique to look star wars, why does it look to much like star wars, why is it so close related to WoW, why doesn't it have that/these WoW features?
People often don't think about the consequences when they want something in life. If you want real space combat, it will hurt other parts of the game. when you give something somewhere, you are also taking something from somewhere.
Because BioWare's Mass Effect and KOTOR games are filled to the brim with full 3D space combat. Really. It's what BioWare specializes in, after all.
Also, if the shit that was Dragon Age 2 is the worst game that BioWare comes up with, they're still leagues better than many other developers. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because it was clearly a rush job. They're focused on ME3 and TOR, so I'm more confident that they'll get those games right.
SWG did, however, release a good space system later. They got that part right, albeit their timing of its release was awful.
SWTOR is releaseing something awful from the get go that they're going to have a hard time turning into something good later on. Their belief that "RPGers can't do 3D" is a very bad generalization.
Dumping all their resources into the ground is their decision. It's not one I agree with given the unique properties of the Star Wars franchise. They could have shifted resources into making a flexible 3D space combat system and instead went the cheapest and easiest route to check off being able to slap the words "space combat" on the box. Not to mention that a 2011 AAA title using a 1980's game style that only existed because processors couldn't handle full 3d is an embarrassment.
Have you played the game? If not, I don't know how you'd be able to make a definitive statement like that.
Of course SWG's space system was great, they took their time to make sure that when they released it that it'd be good. But it wasn't present at launch. In the same line I didn't see BW say that what there was now at launch would be the be all end all of space combat. It might be, I'd be disappointed if this was all there would be for space combat especially since guild capital ships are planned to be implemented as well, but it isn't what I expect to happen, that the current space combat is all there will be after launch.
Personally I would have liked the space combat to have been more at launch, like some PvP arena zones for example, sort of like the War Zones but then in space with spaceships. But I can live with the tradeoff, with a humongous world to explore that'll be larger than any of the MMO's I have played the last couple of years, and a vast amount of content to play that will make the playing with characters beyond your first a lot more fun and surprising as well. It's better than the space/land combat combination that Cryptic had chosen for their STO.
So I regard the space combat at launch as a minigame that other MMO's don't have, and nothing more to it than that, because that's what it is in its at-release form.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Some from collapsed games are like well jeal.
Also the jobless have much time to make up stories about stuff that is just jibber jabber and has no basis of merit.
There isn't this site is just not representative.
Now is we wish to be pedantic theres always some hate but in this case it will be more like 0.00001 %
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
The same question could be asked of the people who claim the game is the bee's knees. Me personally. I don't hate it or like it. What I do know tho....To me Bio-Ware made a few good games. The rest of the games they made felt like they were reskinned versions of previous games. Again, just from my point of view. Their games are heavily scripted, interactive movies. It's like games on rails. I like to save their games and test their "Different choices in dialogue change the outcome of the game." No matter the choice I make it always turns out the same. They make these beautiful worlds in their games, but you are only allowed to walk from one place to another in an invisible tube. Let me walk off the path just once, so I can feel like I am in a living breathing world. Then maybe I'd call Bio-Ware a game company that makes a good RPG.
So me personally, huge Star Wars fan. I have thousands of dollars worth of toys, props and statues. So it's not like I want to see a crappy SW game come out, because I don't. But I am not really a fan of Bio-Ware at all and have never played one of their games and thought to myself "These guys would make a great MMO." But it's a personal thing. People complain about MMO's holding your hand and being too linear. Yet they are ready to eat this game up and praise the crap out of something they haven't played. Eat it up knowing Bio-Ware is the king of linear game making.
Edit: Wanted to add that if it's good I'll try it. But I will wait for reviews before I purchase another MMO. I have a shelf full of "the next best thing." Another reason I refuse to get excited about TOR.
This is so true.
I thought I had an idea of what went into game design until I actually started talking to people who work in the gaming industry, and who have been in it for a while. Seeing actual design documents and Scrum boards and what really goes into the planning and design of a video game was eye-opening for me. It's completely different than what people expect.
We can all imagine the perfect Star Wars game -- or any game, really -- in our heads. We can see space combat, ground combat, diplomacy, etc. But the realities of acutal game design, like the decisions of how to best utilize and maximize the rsources you have, and what you can realistically accomplish with the time and money you've got, means that things have to be planned out and decisions have to be made.
I don't envy the project managers and producers in these games at all, especially with respect to MMOs. Wanting something and being able to do it are two different things, and they have to make a lot of hard calls.
The problem is they're releasing space combat as a mini-game, not a full fledged feature. I doubt they'll put in future resoures into making it vastly different, and instead it will always be relegated to a cheap minigame.
Mind you, if they made it 3D flight from the get go (even as dumbed down as Halo Reach), I'd be in the fanboi camp.
If SOE can make a semi-fun space component, BioWare would be able to make one x10 better. It's a possibility that a deeper space experience could be added. Afterall, how long after release did it take SOE to get JTL released?
Could also ask ' Why is there fanaticism for a game that's not even out yet?' as the two questions seem to be both sides of the same coin. Just a part of human nature, unfortunately.
I hate it....because it's not out yet!
Also, Bioware didn't make the Space Combat game. It was outsourced.
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well technically bioware made it, just not bioware austin. bioware edmonton made the space game. and to add a little bit, if there wasn't any space combat at launch there was likely never going to be space combat added and this was because of gordon walton and his experience with how JTL got implemented. http://darthhater.com/2010/03/12/gdc-biowares-walton-on-adding-space-combat-to-star-wars-galaxies--customer-retention/
The rule that we kind of violated there, for me, was that we did too big of a jump from what was available. So customers want change, and they want the game experience to change over time, but they typically react badly to huge changes to the game. You leave people behind, and they don't have the time to kind of warm up to it.
so by adding it it in from the start, they can gradually change it
You mean like the number of polls that were on the fourms before they showed off this tube shooter, that asked the fourmer goers what kind of space combat they wanted? You know the ones where the rail/tube shooter never got more than 5% of the vote?
Oh like the all those threads, they closed about a week after the announcement and put in to that one space thread thats one like it's 20th restart?
Edit: Also Gordon Walton is an idiot or just lieing to himself if he believes that JTL caused SWG to fail.
I will not play a game with a cash shop ever again. A dev job should be to make the game better not make me pay so it sucks less.
Sith?
I gotta add.. why the use blanket generalizations to insult people who once played SWG? it seems to be all the rage at the TOR forums. I think TOR will be a good game and will check it out. But who's really doing all the hate talk here? The TOR fans or the SWG fan?
If TOR fails will you blame SWG fans for messing it up? If it rains did an ex SWG player with native american blood do a rain dance and mess your hair up? scapegoat much?.
I could blame blizzard for giving me worts but it would be pretty whacky to do so. Your not on TOR forums here this site has many a diverse opinion and we are not bound to BW forums goers thuggery that goes on there. I truly can't understand the logic behind this.
Strange stuff.
So in other words, they're laying the foundation for more space combat down the line by introducing it as a minigame now?
Makes sense. A fully fleshed out space combat part of the game would have easily doubled BioWare's development time and costs.