In your OP you imply that if an RPG has twitch combat (aiming, click to strike, etc.) then it no longer is an RPG because your character's skills don't matter. I'm sorry, but this just simply isn't true.
The only factors that twitch combat puts in the hand of the player is aiming and dodging, that's it. Everything else is still character based. Damage, AoE size, resistability, duration, armor, health, all that stuff. All that stuff can still be advanced just like an RPG. If you don't believe me, then try playing Darkfall. Darkfall has twitch combat, but a new character wouldn't have a chance against an experienced character.
Also, you imply that twitch combat detracts from the strategy of fights. This also isn't true. Twitch combat isn't necessarily less strategic, it's just faster. Look at Starcraft. Starcraft is one of the "twitchiest" games out there, yet strategy is paramount. To be an excellent Starcraft player you have to have excellent strategy AND excellent twitch skills. It makes the whole thing much more difficult and I think that's why it's been elevated to the esport level that it is.
Basically, I don't twitch combat is inherently better or worse for an RPG, it's just different. If you don't like it, it's either because you're not good at it, or it's just a matter of opinion. I don't see "objective" basis for argument that twitch combat takes away anything from an RPG.
Tazar gw1stat has been same since what profecy.only skill type chagnged over the years and it worked great people focused on strategy skill instead of grining it was way more epic .the other players didnt win because of gear they won because their strategy plan was betterding for pvp gear.i bet i aint the only one feall
I would prefer the standard combat but could tolerate more twitch as long as it is not fps. In all types of games there are really only two things I really hate fps and raiding.
Twitch combat just doesn't work well in MMOs. Many of the advantages that come with manual aiming are offset due to the high CPU cost, or don't work well with latency, and if not built correctly diminishes tactical combat.
Twitch combat just doesn't work well in MMOs. Many of the advantages that come with manual aiming are offset due to the high CPU cost, or don't work well with latency, and if not built correctly diminishes tactical combat.
I think it will work well in MMO's, but the MMO's have to be built for it, theres no high CPU cost for manual aiming, but latency is an issue for cross continent gameplay, but thats an issue in current MMO's (well every game on the planet) just to a lesser extent.
The fact that some RPGs get made with twitch combat won't ever derail the core reasons RPGs appeal to a wide audience: casual-friendly twitch-lite combat where progression and strategic choices influence battle outcomes.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think it will work well in MMO's, but the MMO's have to be built for it, theres no high CPU cost for manual aiming, but latency is an issue for cross continent gameplay, but thats an issue in current MMO's (well every game on the planet) just to a lesser extent.
Real twitch combat requires multiple hit boxes and is a huge drain on CPU server resources. In fact, I don't think this has been implemented in any MMORPG. Most go with a pseudo-twitch setup that just checks a single box and this eliminates a lot of the pros that come with manual aiming.
Latency is a problem for every MMO, but the games that rely less on manual aiming can push most of those problems to the background and players won't notice unless there is a serious problem with the network.
Tazar gw1stat has been same since what profecy.only skill type chagnged over the years and it worked great people focused on strategy skill instead of grining it was way more epic .the other players didnt win because of gear they won because their strategy plan was betterding for pvp gear.i bet i aint the only one feall
i agree with the last 2 lines about players making smart deicions but i dont understand at all the 1sr 2 lines .Can u be more specific?
I'm not conviced that you can't have a fun hybrid of both fast action combat(twitch) and RPGeness in an MMO.
OP you are right about something... I should be calling Battlefield 3 an MMORPG. Its a big PvP game with thousands of players all playing different classes or roles, hell I can even role play as a role while I play!
I mostly agree. I mean, I can stand a bit twitch. But by and large I want my character to be as strong as... well my character! Not as me! I find twitch combat tiresome, boring and silly. All this dodging and rolling away... Nah. Never liked it, never will.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Tabula Rasa was sort of a hybrid twitch, it was a fairly fun game but pvp was just horrible but the targeting system worked well- you point and the reticle would stay sticky on the target for a short period of time when you dragged away.
As someone else said, multiple hitboxes in an MMO isn't going to happen, Planetside is a twitch MMO but there's one big hitbox on every player, you're doing the samd damage to the head as you are to the toe or fingertip.
I actually often miss the old 'clunky' combat of EQ1, where you had time to you know.. socialize. Idon't always play on RP servers but still can't stand voice chat as it just tkes a level of immersion out of the game for me. Still, some games should have twich-based combat and other more of an older style as it seems folks want both.
I disagree. Even WoW-like combat still very much depends on the player's skills albeit different ones.
In fact, I believe the utilization of twitch combat systems is a step forward for we, the players, gain more control over our characters allowing us to perfect our representations of the character. Twitch combat systems allow the character to become a more attached extension of ourselves possibilitating the player to more accurately portray (if chosen to do so) how the character would actually fight. Let me provide an example to illustrate what I am trying to argue:
You are playing SWTOR and your character is a jedi knight, an agile and powerful combatant capable of fluid and graceful strikes with his lightsaber. Now tell me, with the intricacies of lightsaber handling, wouldn't more control over your character's movement and attacks possibilitate a more realistic experience of being a jedi? By automatically funneling your experience to a semi turn-based, static combat system, the feeling and sensation of taking up the role of a jedi is diminished as the combat does not realistically represent how the character (jedi knight) would actually fight.
Compare a game like Force Unleashed and its combat system to SWTOR's WoW-like combat system and see which one would make you feel more like a jedi.
Your options to vote for are too confusing. I have no idea what I shall vote but I welcome twitch combat. I played that in Darkfall, and it was not "that" hard, even for an old man like me. After playing that, all auto-target games feel pretty much dull & dead compared.
The argument that twitch combat takes away the RPG aspect is a load of crap in my opinion.
If having the player determine combat is such a no-no then you should not be allowed to chose when to use your attacks, heals and specials either as that is also player and not character controlled.
I think the real reason people dislike twitch combat is because they simply are not very good at it, and people hate the thought that their opponent is just a better player than them. They can't use some lame ass excuse about their opponent having an OP class or something.
For me twitch combat is a far superior system and I find tab target affairs rather mundane and boring. That said ofc, it depends upon what you are specifically meant to be controlling. EVE with twitch would make zero sense for example.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Twitch can exist in a classic rpg type combat system.
Look at UO.. WoW has twitch too incase your the new generation mmorpger but not as much as UO did.
That's not twitch combat. UO had auto attack, and then you had choices (potions, bandages, pre-casting, etc.) that worked best with proper timing and general experience.
Take UO's system and add in special attacks, defensive stance choices, and change archery to work more like casting a spell, and I think you have a great system for an MMORPG.
Twitching around on your keyboard just to take swipes at a target bores me. I'd rather have lots of manuever options to concentrate on.
Not to be mean... but your view is just flat out wrong.
Logically speaking it's still an MMORPG with or without twitch combat. Nothing in the definition states that everyone has to be able to play or be able to play equally.
What happens when you get arthritis and can't even click?
Oblivion had twitch and it was conisered one of the better RPGs of the past 10 years. Just because you have twitch doesnt mean it cant be an MMORPG anymore. I dont understand why by adding twitch you are playing a character. You were playing the character to begin with and anything that brings you more in tune with that character is good. I can rpg more when I have to actually look at that tree and swing my axe. But when I can just click a tree off to my left then run up to it and right click and wait, thats not roleplaying.
Oblivion had twitch and it was conisered one of the better RPGs of the past 10 years. Just because you have twitch doesnt mean it cant be an MMORPG anymore. I dont understand why by adding twitch you are playing a character. You were playing the character to begin with and anything that brings you more in tune with that character is good. I can rpg more when I have to actually look at that tree and swing my axe. But when I can just click a tree off to my left then run up to it and right click and wait, thats not roleplaying.
You know what actually funny once you realise, most of last 10 years of single player RPG are free aiming as combat, like the only exception is Dragon Age I&II
Mass Effect 1&2
Oblivion
Witcher 1&2
GothicIV
Risen1&2
Fallout 3&New Vegas
MMO players are so old fashioned :P
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Comments
In your OP you imply that if an RPG has twitch combat (aiming, click to strike, etc.) then it no longer is an RPG because your character's skills don't matter. I'm sorry, but this just simply isn't true.
The only factors that twitch combat puts in the hand of the player is aiming and dodging, that's it. Everything else is still character based. Damage, AoE size, resistability, duration, armor, health, all that stuff. All that stuff can still be advanced just like an RPG. If you don't believe me, then try playing Darkfall. Darkfall has twitch combat, but a new character wouldn't have a chance against an experienced character.
Also, you imply that twitch combat detracts from the strategy of fights. This also isn't true. Twitch combat isn't necessarily less strategic, it's just faster. Look at Starcraft. Starcraft is one of the "twitchiest" games out there, yet strategy is paramount. To be an excellent Starcraft player you have to have excellent strategy AND excellent twitch skills. It makes the whole thing much more difficult and I think that's why it's been elevated to the esport level that it is.
Basically, I don't twitch combat is inherently better or worse for an RPG, it's just different. If you don't like it, it's either because you're not good at it, or it's just a matter of opinion. I don't see "objective" basis for argument that twitch combat takes away anything from an RPG.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I would prefer the standard combat but could tolerate more twitch as long as it is not fps. In all types of games there are really only two things I really hate fps and raiding.
Twitch combat just doesn't work well in MMOs. Many of the advantages that come with manual aiming are offset due to the high CPU cost, or don't work well with latency, and if not built correctly diminishes tactical combat.
I think it will work well in MMO's, but the MMO's have to be built for it, theres no high CPU cost for manual aiming, but latency is an issue for cross continent gameplay, but thats an issue in current MMO's (well every game on the planet) just to a lesser extent.
honestly.. I couldn't care less what they classify a video game as. As long as its fun.
a twitch combat game with an active changing PvE story would definitly make me give it a try.
You'll always have non-twitch RPGs. Always.
The fact that some RPGs get made with twitch combat won't ever derail the core reasons RPGs appeal to a wide audience: casual-friendly twitch-lite combat where progression and strategic choices influence battle outcomes.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Real twitch combat requires multiple hit boxes and is a huge drain on CPU server resources. In fact, I don't think this has been implemented in any MMORPG. Most go with a pseudo-twitch setup that just checks a single box and this eliminates a lot of the pros that come with manual aiming.
Latency is a problem for every MMO, but the games that rely less on manual aiming can push most of those problems to the background and players won't notice unless there is a serious problem with the network.
i agree with the last 2 lines about players making smart deicions but i dont understand at all the 1sr 2 lines .Can u be more specific?
I'm not conviced that you can't have a fun hybrid of both fast action combat(twitch) and RPGeness in an MMO.
OP you are right about something... I should be calling Battlefield 3 an MMORPG. Its a big PvP game with thousands of players all playing different classes or roles, hell I can even role play as a role while I play!
I mostly agree. I mean, I can stand a bit twitch. But by and large I want my character to be as strong as... well my character! Not as me! I find twitch combat tiresome, boring and silly. All this dodging and rolling away... Nah. Never liked it, never will.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Cloudsol/
Tabula Rasa was sort of a hybrid twitch, it was a fairly fun game but pvp was just horrible but the targeting system worked well- you point and the reticle would stay sticky on the target for a short period of time when you dragged away.
As someone else said, multiple hitboxes in an MMO isn't going to happen, Planetside is a twitch MMO but there's one big hitbox on every player, you're doing the samd damage to the head as you are to the toe or fingertip.
I actually often miss the old 'clunky' combat of EQ1, where you had time to you know.. socialize. Idon't always play on RP servers but still can't stand voice chat as it just tkes a level of immersion out of the game for me. Still, some games should have twich-based combat and other more of an older style as it seems folks want both.
I disagree. Even WoW-like combat still very much depends on the player's skills albeit different ones.
In fact, I believe the utilization of twitch combat systems is a step forward for we, the players, gain more control over our characters allowing us to perfect our representations of the character. Twitch combat systems allow the character to become a more attached extension of ourselves possibilitating the player to more accurately portray (if chosen to do so) how the character would actually fight. Let me provide an example to illustrate what I am trying to argue:
You are playing SWTOR and your character is a jedi knight, an agile and powerful combatant capable of fluid and graceful strikes with his lightsaber. Now tell me, with the intricacies of lightsaber handling, wouldn't more control over your character's movement and attacks possibilitate a more realistic experience of being a jedi? By automatically funneling your experience to a semi turn-based, static combat system, the feeling and sensation of taking up the role of a jedi is diminished as the combat does not realistically represent how the character (jedi knight) would actually fight.
Compare a game like Force Unleashed and its combat system to SWTOR's WoW-like combat system and see which one would make you feel more like a jedi.
Why does everyone always want games to become easier and easier? It's already too easy.
Games are supposed to be challenging..
If you're a crappy player then you're a crappy player.. stop whining and l2p instead.
If you want to be powerful because your character is powerful then join some sortof roleplaying community or something.
Twitch can exist in a classic rpg type combat system.
Look at UO.. WoW has twitch too incase your the new generation mmorpger but not as much as UO did.
Umm.. you DO know that the RPG in MMORPG stands for Role Playing Game right?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Your options to vote for are too confusing. I have no idea what I shall vote but I welcome twitch combat. I played that in Darkfall, and it was not "that" hard, even for an old man like me. After playing that, all auto-target games feel pretty much dull & dead compared.
Make us care MORE about our faction & world pvp!
The argument that twitch combat takes away the RPG aspect is a load of crap in my opinion.
If having the player determine combat is such a no-no then you should not be allowed to chose when to use your attacks, heals and specials either as that is also player and not character controlled.
I think the real reason people dislike twitch combat is because they simply are not very good at it, and people hate the thought that their opponent is just a better player than them. They can't use some lame ass excuse about their opponent having an OP class or something.
For me twitch combat is a far superior system and I find tab target affairs rather mundane and boring. That said ofc, it depends upon what you are specifically meant to be controlling. EVE with twitch would make zero sense for example.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
That's not twitch combat. UO had auto attack, and then you had choices (potions, bandages, pre-casting, etc.) that worked best with proper timing and general experience.
Take UO's system and add in special attacks, defensive stance choices, and change archery to work more like casting a spell, and I think you have a great system for an MMORPG.
Twitching around on your keyboard just to take swipes at a target bores me. I'd rather have lots of manuever options to concentrate on.
Once upon a time....
Twitch isn't about manual aiming.. It can be included in that tho.
In a FPS, Enemy appears on screen. Your reflexes work first and tell you to target him, then twitch comes and targets him.
In UO twitch was used in reacting to enemies spells. First you try to anticipate, Then you react with help from twitch.
Twitch isn't only jerking the mouse around in screen.
Can people stop using twitch and replace it with reaction or reflexes? My eye is about to twitch from all that twitching
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
Not to be mean... but your view is just flat out wrong.
Logically speaking it's still an MMORPG with or without twitch combat. Nothing in the definition states that everyone has to be able to play or be able to play equally.
What happens when you get arthritis and can't even click?
Oblivion had twitch and it was conisered one of the better RPGs of the past 10 years. Just because you have twitch doesnt mean it cant be an MMORPG anymore. I dont understand why by adding twitch you are playing a character. You were playing the character to begin with and anything that brings you more in tune with that character is good. I can rpg more when I have to actually look at that tree and swing my axe. But when I can just click a tree off to my left then run up to it and right click and wait, thats not roleplaying.
You know what actually funny once you realise, most of last 10 years of single player RPG are free aiming as combat, like the only exception is Dragon Age I&II
Mass Effect 1&2
Oblivion
Witcher 1&2
GothicIV
Risen1&2
Fallout 3&New Vegas
MMO players are so old fashioned :P
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.