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General: The Console MMO is the Future

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  • Nhoj1983Nhoj1983 Member UncommonPosts: 185

    Oh I know that microsoft has FFXI but that was the exception.  There have been many "massively" multiplayer online games that have been slated for the system only to be axed for one reason or another.  For those talking about Halo I love the game don't get me wrong but it's not massive though it is multiplayer we're talking mmo here not just multiplayer.  It doesn't really matter how many players actually play the game in small groups even if the number is 100k concurrently playing gamers your only seeing a few at a time.

     

    Sony on the other hand has one MMO atm with another (FFXIV) on the way and a few more rumored games.  I've not looked at the I think it's called Defiant really I know that's coming to xbox but so far xbox has been pretty true to it's model which is sucessful just not mmo friendly.   I agree Sony is no paragon either when it comes to it's system as far as mmos but so far it's the lesser evil.  Here's to hoping that the future changes things.

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004

    Originally posted by MyGarona

    Originally posted by Phry


    Originally posted by MyGarona

    Uhhh - I've been playing MMOs on the Xbox for years - for no monthly fee. They're MMOFPS, but so what? The latest is called Halo:Reach. I play it daily with over 100k others. How many pc MMORPGs have 100k users online daily?

    thats actually a very low number..  though perhaps for a console.. not so bad..image

    I imagine 90% or better of the games listed on this site don't have 100k players online at any one time. Hell SOE probably doesn't have 100k gamers online at any one time across all their station games. That's pure conjecture on my part of course.

    I think those of us posting here vastly overstate the popularity of MMOs other than WoW . . .

    Eve online.. a popular if niche game, has a subscriber base of 350k players, of which only 50k are online during the day at peak..though i have no doubt that on a daily basis over 100k gamers will have logged in to play.. ..  if you pick a game like Rift, which reportedly has a much high sub base, the proportion of players online at peak will be significantly higher.. and overall daily useage higher again..  but .. halo reach isnt actually an mmo.. but a MO.. 6 v 6 i think.. even when compared to other PC games of that type (counterstrike, teamfortress etc..) it doesnt have nearly as many players..  but i suppose 100k must seem like a lot to console gamers... image

  • InktomiInktomi Member UncommonPosts: 663

    Wasn't FFXI offered to PS2 users before the 360 was ever released to the public? I know it still function on my ps2, although you need the HDD to run it that is very rare now. So, in essence, after Phantasy Star Universe, FFXI was the first big MMO to be released on consoles and did very well until WoW came along and took a large part of its marketshare.

  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788

     @Nhoj1983 - Again, the notion that the PSN is 'open' and Xbox Live is 'closed' is total horseshit. They are both closed networks with exceptions.

    And Microsoft is publishing the Undead Labs MMO and Dugeon Fighter Online. So after seven years of the current generation both consoles will have the same number of MMOs.

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004

    Originally posted by SlothnChunk

    Originally posted by Phry



    There is also the point that Consoles, to date, arent able to cope with modern MMO's... the few that have been designed for consoles have not exactly done too well, the only real exception has been FF XI  ...  FFXIV although originally intended for the console..   is so far PC only..  though with all the problems with the game, its hard to tell if the reason it never appeared on the PS3 is because of hardware limitations of the console, or just plain lack of resources to allocate to its development for consoles. As for DCUO.. if anything it only highlighted just how limiting consoles are for MMO's (and the PC port suffered enormously for all the interface issues.. not to mention in game communication problems) the second largest hurdle - after the hardware limitations of consoles that is - consoles just can't handle the high end graphics that  PC games tend to have... is the control interface, or gamepad.. their just not ergonomically suitable for MMO's.. the PC has been, and remains, the only viable platform for MMO's. Which is why the number of MMO's on the PC are so numerous and varied.. and the console ones.. er.. barely exist, and when directx 9.c is eventually phased out and replaced by directx11 ... they will become even further behind the technological event horizon.. modern consoles.. arent really.. modern.. their old technology.. and it really does show. image

    Since when are MMOs all about graphics and technology? MMOs like UO, EQ and even WoW aren't exactly graphical and technilogical powerhouses. There are plenty of very good old MMOs you could add to that list. Gameplay trumps all.

    And when you actually design MMOs for consoles the interface and communication problems are solved.

    UO EQ and WoW are actually fairly old games now (especially UO and EQ) and they don't represent modern MMO's in terms of graphics, which many actually support Directx11 now..  and the number of arguments over Graphics in MMO's would indicate to me that actually, that is a big issue..  but.. as for when MMO's are designed for consoles.. the problems are solved.. if only that were the case, DCUO was designed for the consoles, not exactly a good example.. and thats a modern MMO.. just not a very good one..  the current generation of consoles just arent up to it.. the next generation though.. we'll see.. but they'll need to have good alternatives to the gamepads, because regardless of the hardware capabilities of a console.. gamepads just don't suit MMO's..  keyboards are needed...  in fact.. having keyboards and mice for the next generation of consoles would mean that FPS MO's  for instance, could be cross platform,  without the console player suffering a massive disadvantage image

  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788

    DCUO was actually a really good MMO at launch. However, it lacked content and the patches and additional content actually caused problem. That was SOE screwing up another MMO and not a console problem.

    It's only going to take one good console MMO for there to be a shift. And there are a good half dozens console MMOs that should be released in the next year.

  • DraemosDraemos Member UncommonPosts: 1,521

    MMOs are the opposite of what console players want.  

  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788

    Originally posted by Draemos

    MMOs are the opposite of what console players want.  

    I remember when people said the same thing about consoles and first-person shooters. Hell, I was one of them.

    Then Halo came out and that all went out the window.

  • NesrieNesrie Member Posts: 648

    Originally posted by SlothnChunk

    Originally posted by Nesrie

    OH yeah FFXIV clearly shows that the consoles are the way to go. Heh. You got one thing right though, if dumbed down shallow MMOs is what the companies want to sell, they will probably sell better to the console players... I wouldn't call that much of a future though.

    Not sure what you're getting at. FFXIV has been out for PCs for nearly a year and there still isn't a console release date.

     If you played it, you would know the UI was designed with a console in mind. Also... DC... even the critics question how much MMO content is in that game.

    parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.

  • LawlmonsterLawlmonster Member UncommonPosts: 1,085

    As someone else has already pointed out, the current Xbox Live network certainly doesn't allow third parties to push content patches without approval from Microsoft first (and believe it or not, they want to charge the user for all of them). Those of you who may have been excited for TF2 on your console probably know what I'm talking about, because you're still waiting for patches and updates PC users got months ago, all because Valve can distribute or push content updates whenever the hell they want, on whatever Steam client they choose, while Microsoft is still fighting the decision to push this content to players without a fee on Xbox Live.

     

    So, given that the current console networks aren't really created to host MMO's in the manner in which we know them (that is, constant updates and patches for content or game breakers), and I'll admit I'm unsure if PSN is more ready for this than Xbox Live, I would say that two things need to happen for MMO's to actually become viable on consoles: 1) MMO development companies or production companies need to be able to update their content whenever the hell they feel like it, without a first party stepping in to demand more from players or to demand changes to the said content or patches (either Microsoft or Sony agree's, or they make their own form of console), or 2) MMO developer's would actually have to release full, feature complete, bug-free games that could withstand months without pushed patches or content updates. That's really the only way I see it working until a new generation of consoles comes out, and only then if their networks are open enough for third parties to maintain their game in the fashion they've become accustomed.

    "This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004

    Originally posted by SlothnChunk

    DCUO was actually a really good MMO at launch. However, it lacked content and the patches and additional content actually caused problem. That was SOE screwing up another MMO and not a console problem.

    It's only going to take one good console MMO for there to be a shift. And there are a good half dozens console MMOs that should be released in the next year.

    not aware of any console MMO's even in development.. let alone half a dozen..  hope its not games like Halo reach.. which are as much an MMO as Counterstrike is.. ie.. not one.  so unless we're talking real MMO's .. i just don't see it..  at the moment there is no indication of any kind of shift towards Console based MMO's... image

  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788

    Originally posted by Phry

    Originally posted by SlothnChunk

    DCUO was actually a really good MMO at launch. However, it lacked content and the patches and additional content actually caused problem. That was SOE screwing up another MMO and not a console problem.

    It's only going to take one good console MMO for there to be a shift. And there are a good half dozens console MMOs that should be released in the next year.

    not aware of any console MMO's even in development.. let alone half a dozen..  hope its not games like Halo reach.. which are as much an MMO as Counterstrike is.. ie.. not one.  so unless we're talking real MMO's .. i just don't see it..  at the moment there is no indication of any kind of shift towards Console based MMO's... image

    Console MMOs in development: Undead Labs zombie MMO, Defiance, Planetside 2, Everquest Next, Dust 514 and the unannounced Turbine console MMO.

    All are hitting console within a year or so.

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004

    Originally posted by SlothnChunk

    Originally posted by Phry


    Originally posted by SlothnChunk

    DCUO was actually a really good MMO at launch. However, it lacked content and the patches and additional content actually caused problem. That was SOE screwing up another MMO and not a console problem.

    It's only going to take one good console MMO for there to be a shift. And there are a good half dozens console MMOs that should be released in the next year.

    not aware of any console MMO's even in development.. let alone half a dozen..  hope its not games like Halo reach.. which are as much an MMO as Counterstrike is.. ie.. not one.  so unless we're talking real MMO's .. i just don't see it..  at the moment there is no indication of any kind of shift towards Console based MMO's... image

    Console MMOs in development: Undead Labs zombie MMO, Defiance, Planetside 2, Everquest Next, Dust 514 and the unannounced Turbine console MMO.

    All are hitting console within a year or so.

    .. Defiance.. hard to imagine how they will manage to balance a FPS game for the PC so that the console players stand a chance.. but.. once more info is out we'll see if it makes it to console even..  Planetside 2 or Next.. currently vapourware, and questionable if it would be console anyway, Everquest Next... stands more chance of being on console, probably along the lines of Everquest online adventures..  but.. we'll see how that goes.. nothing certain even at this stage..  Dust 514... on PS3 only..  as the dirt side part of Eve... always felt that was a let down.. but .. PC players would have had too much advantage.. so i can see why it was limited to PS3 only.. even if i don't agree with that decision..   a hell of a lot of IF's in there tbh.. a long long way from being definite or even 'platform' changing...image

  • SlothnChunkSlothnChunk Member UncommonPosts: 788

    Originally posted by Phry

    Originally posted by SlothnChunk


    Originally posted by Phry


    Originally posted by SlothnChunk

    DCUO was actually a really good MMO at launch. However, it lacked content and the patches and additional content actually caused problem. That was SOE screwing up another MMO and not a console problem.

    It's only going to take one good console MMO for there to be a shift. And there are a good half dozens console MMOs that should be released in the next year.

    not aware of any console MMO's even in development.. let alone half a dozen..  hope its not games like Halo reach.. which are as much an MMO as Counterstrike is.. ie.. not one.  so unless we're talking real MMO's .. i just don't see it..  at the moment there is no indication of any kind of shift towards Console based MMO's... image

    Console MMOs in development: Undead Labs zombie MMO, Defiance, Planetside 2, Everquest Next, Dust 514 and the unannounced Turbine console MMO.

    All are hitting console within a year or so.

    .. Defiance.. hard to imagine how they will manage to balance a FPS game for the PC so that the console players stand a chance.. but.. once more info is out we'll see if it makes it to console even..  Planetside 2 or Next.. currently vapourware, and questionable if it would be console anyway, Everquest Next... stands more chance of being on console, probably along the lines of Everquest online adventures..  but.. we'll see how that goes.. nothing certain even at this stage..  Dust 514... on PS3 only..  as the dirt side part of Eve... always felt that was a let down.. but .. PC players would have had too much advantage.. so i can see why it was limited to PS3 only.. even if i don't agree with that decision..   a hell of a lot of IF's in there tbh.. a long long way from being definite or even 'platform' changing...image

    When one or more of the console MMOs listed above really catches on and significant community emerges...do I get to say I told you so? Or are you going to come up with reasons why console MMO player don't really count as MMO players?

  • hcoelhohcoelho Member UncommonPosts: 529

    imo MMOs for consoles will be the big scape from the same old same old...

     

    The mmo genre in the PC is stale. Every game targetting the masses comes as a WoW contender, but following WoW Steps. We'll be getting some new things with TOR and GW2, but still the core mechanics and gameplay will be similar. Talking about mainstream mmos...

     

    The console plataform offers differents gameplays mechanics for Devs to think about... consoles have way more acessories, as Move, Kinect, all kind of different things. Maybe combining them they might create something totaly new for the genre.  If a company releases a MMO for PC that using a controller is mandatory, it would fail from start. PC gamers generaly dont like controllers.

     

    The problem is... will they get attention from the console players ? console players are not used to play MMOs, gneraly speaking. As some of you mentioned, there isn't great mmos for consoles. DCUO being the last and most successful (?).  Maybe using a huge console franchise... or a strong IP. I do also agree that pay to play won't catch for consoles.... Some of my friends can't get the idea of paying monthly to play a game... when they can buy a good game for 60 dollars and never pay again, especially when those games have a great multiplayer side.

    I'm a pc and console gamer... my only concern is if every mmo releases for console and then ported for PC, as many great games... that would suck, we'd endup getting shitty games that wouldn't be great neither in consoles or PC.  At some point developers will have to release a game for Console and a different version for PC, until we get there PC gamers will get a not so great game always.

  • DraemosDraemos Member UncommonPosts: 1,521

    Originally posted by SlothnChunk



    Originally posted by Draemos

    MMOs are the opposite of what console players want.  

    I remember when people said the same thing about consoles and first-person shooters. Hell, I was one of them.

    Then Halo came out and that all went out the window.


     

    I don't see the relation...

    FPS games lend themselves perfectly to a console.  They are simple, fast paced, skill oriented and satisfy that instant gratification urge.

    MMOs are completely the opposite.  They don't satisfy anything that a console gamer wants out of a game.

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004

    Originally posted by Draemos



    Originally posted by SlothnChunk








    Originally posted by Draemos





    MMOs are the opposite of what console players want.  

    I remember when people said the same thing about consoles and first-person shooters. Hell, I was one of them.

    Then Halo came out and that all went out the window.






     

    I don't see the relation...

    FPS games lend themselves perfectly to a console.  They are simple, fast paced, skill oriented and satisfy that instant gratification urge.

    MMOs are completely the opposite.  They don't satisfy anything that a console gamer wants out of a game.

    It has been proven definitively that the PC is best for FPS games, the combination of Keyboard and mouse is more intuitive and responsive.. not to mention accurate, than any of the consoles gamepads, which is the main reason that there is a segregation of PC and Consoles for FPS games, because the console players would be at a disadvantage, regardless of individuals skills. Thats not to say that FPS games arent fun on consoles.... undoubtedly they are.. but this is just the way things stand at this present moment in time.  But simple fast paced games work as well on the PC as they do on the Consoles.. its just that the degree of complexity that can be utilised for PC games, isnt available with Consoles,  .... when you add in that their now starting to make Laptop PC's with 3d screens that don't need special glasses.. the gap between the PC and Console is inevitably going to widen further...  and if 3D games do become more popular as a result.. this might even be the turning point away from consoles for regular single player games... image

  • TerranahTerranah Member UncommonPosts: 3,575

    I would not be opposed to playing a console mmo at all.  I have a comfortable couch and a beautiful tv capable of 3d so I'd love it.

     

    I do have some concerns though.  Namely, without a keyboard socialization would be minimal.  Ofcourse you can go the voice route, but then it is immersion breaking, not to mention listening to idiots on my surround sound.  On of the reasons I don't play much xbox live is the number of really, really stupid people that are very vocal.  Sometimes there's yelling into the mic, babies crying in the background...racist, homophobic remarks tend to be more offensive when spoken as opposed to typed, etc.

     

    My other concern would be the quality of graphics.  My gaming pc kills what xbox 360 can do right now, there is no comparison.  I have 8gb of ram, while Xbox 360 only has 512 I think.  So how would that translate in terms of bringing a open world game?  Is it possible, or would there be a lot of load screens...which ironically is what a lot of pc mmos are doing right now anyway.

     

    Another concern would be UI.  With a keyboard you can hotkey lots of options and I have a gaming keyboard with 48 programmable keys.  Using a controller would be a HUGE impediment to deep game play, and would require you to go through a lot of annoying menus.

     

    Ofcourse, if the console game had keyboard and mouse/console support...that would help.

  • TheCrow2kTheCrow2k Member Posts: 953

    Originally posted by Binny45

    -SNIP-

    Like it or lump it, the days of the gaming PC are numbered unless the PC genre can set itself seperate from the consoles.


     

    Up until 12 months ago publishers and industry jounro's were beating their drums to the beat you describe. Fortunately with the rise of successfull indie developers (and smaller publisher getting bigger thanks to publishing indie games), the rising popularity (and profits) of digital distribution and the sudden realisation that piracy on the PC actually was no where near as bad as they thought the big publishers are pushing back into the PC space.

    The PC will never die, with touchpads & mobile gaming coming out some publishers & a few "industry experts" are saying tablets & mobile gaming is going to kill consoles lol. No it will simply force them to evolve thats all, besides when John Romero jumped on the mobile & "social networking" bandwagon you know it is going to fail to live up to expectations....

  • hanshotfirsthanshotfirst Member UncommonPosts: 712

     



     


    Quality for whom?


     


    The handful of PC enthusiasts who were able to run Crysis with half the bells and whistles turned on while maintaining a greater-than-slideshow level of performance?


     


    Narrowing your market to such an audience is the antithesis of "massively". It might be fine for single-player games, but for an MMO it's outright counterproductive.  And that's not even touching upon all the headaches and inconsistencies of trying to support a variety of operating systems, software drivers, and hardware specifications. That's why you see developers like Blizzard and EA/Bioware (unlike FunCom) setting the bar so low.


     


    Social Networking?? You do appreciate neither consoles nor personal computers hold a candle to the average smart phone in that regard? Furthermore, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and suggest most of us are better off for it. Really, do we need more games with Facebook/Twitter integration?


     


    Designer communism?? Huh? What? You lost me.


     


    Do you realize the market, both in terms of growth and revenue, is *significantly* higher for consoles than it is for PC games? 


     


    Most people don't buy consoles with MMORPGS in-mind? 'Till recently, did they have much of a choice?


     


    Did you miss Drew Wood's commentary that DCUO has proven a greater success on the PS3 than the PC?


     


    Computers offer more progressive content options, and mainteniance, and as we all learned... recentily better stability to 3rd party attackers??


     


    First, what the heck does "progressive content options" mean? DLC?? If so, I'd hardly say PCs have that market cornered.


     


    And mainteniance? Huh?? What does defragging my hard drive or blowing dust off my motherboard have to do with game development? Am I missing something?


     


    As for stability and 3rd party attackers... um, just what are you driving at here? You think SOE runs their infrastructure backbone off a console? 


     


    Techonological advances for PCs advance dramaticily faster then consoles?


     


    With the average MMO taking between 5-7 years to develop, you think that's somehow an advantage? Where would you rather build your house... on shifting sand or bedrock?


     


    Hardware/software stability isn't a liability for consoles, it's an asset. Heck, it's arguably one of the greatest assets in their favor.

  • erictlewiserictlewis Member UncommonPosts: 3,022

    Originally posted by SlothnChunk

    Originally posted by Phry


    Originally posted by SlothnChunk

    DCUO was actually a really good MMO at launch. However, it lacked content and the patches and additional content actually caused problem. That was SOE screwing up another MMO and not a console problem.

    It's only going to take one good console MMO for there to be a shift. And there are a good half dozens console MMOs that should be released in the next year.

    not aware of any console MMO's even in development.. let alone half a dozen..  hope its not games like Halo reach.. which are as much an MMO as Counterstrike is.. ie.. not one.  so unless we're talking real MMO's .. i just don't see it..  at the moment there is no indication of any kind of shift towards Console based MMO's... image

    Console MMOs in development: Undead Labs zombie MMO, Defiance, Planetside 2, Everquest Next, Dust 514 and the unannounced Turbine console MMO.

    All are hitting console within a year or so.

     We don't know anything about Everquest Next other than its going to be set before EQ1.   So saying its coming out for console site teh source.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,938

    As long as I can hook up a mouse and keyboard to it, I don't care.

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • EllisiaEllisia Member Posts: 14

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    As long as I can hook up a mouse and keyboard to it, I don't care.

    I own a PS3, no way would I have bought DCOU for it, its just for watching movies on.  For my PC I have k/b, mouse, DFGT wheel, Thrustmaster throttle and stick and a 48 inch Monitor. 

     

    Why in gods name would I want to twiddle 2 sticks and be stuck with about 10 buttons, lousy graphics and a bitching match cause I want to take over the TV.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,938

    Originally posted by Ellisia

    Originally posted by Sovrath

    As long as I can hook up a mouse and keyboard to it, I don't care.

    I own a PS3, no way would I have bought DCOU for it, its just for watching movies on.  For my PC I have k/b, mouse, DFGT wheel, Thrustmaster throttle and stick and a 48 inch Monitor. 

     

    Why in gods name would I want to twiddle 2 sticks and be stuck with about 10 buttons, lousy graphics and a bitching match cause I want to take over the TV.

    I would have to say I agree with you "but" if at some point more and more games are made for ocnsoles and eschew the pc's then "as long as I can hook up a mouse and keyboard to it I don't care".

    Let's put it this way, I mostly use a Mac in my life. except over the years the games came less and less. So I gave in and bought a pc as well.

    The other thing I'll add is that I have yet to see a console game look just as good as its pc counterpart.

    But again, if more games stat going the way of the console...

    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • EllisiaEllisia Member Posts: 14

    Sovrath I agree with you, in theory.

    But, PC development is what drives console development, faster processors and graphics, larger and faster storage, all come out for the PC first.  This allows faster and cheaper consoles to be built.

    Its all about where you play, having a spare room with a desk allows you to set up a PC and all its peripherals, whereas, no spare room means stealing the lounge.  Hence consoles are more popular, thats why I have a PS3 in the lounge and use it to watch movies, iPlayer etc etc etc.

    Using a keyboard and mouse, or a steering wheel, in an armchair isnt ideal lol. Thats why I'd prefer to see fully functioning games written for the PC rather than semi functioning games ported from a console.

    Playing COD on a console, no problem, but MMO's are inherently social games, so isnt it better to use the tools available i.e. a keyboard for control.

    This isnt a "PC's are better than consoles" rant, I just think consoles are better suited to some games than others. I dont think they are suited to MMO's.  Just my opinion..

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