there is no rational reason to think that GW2 will fail because ANet has been delivering on promised features (thus far), it has been getting nothing but positive reviews, and everyone who tried it went nuts about it. if the WvWvW reveal is good, the game will suck in everyone who loves sandbox pvp. if outdoor raids are good, the raider nerds will come as well.
TOR has been getting tons of bad press, many with a critical eye who played it were less than impressed, and BW hasnt actually delivered anything that's genre-changing. taking into consideration how much money went into the game, it certainly wont be a huge success. it's my opinion that not many people will actually stick with the game in the long run.
Any game can "fail", previews and pre-release hype mean nothing, if a game has problems it will fail, it's as simple as that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If one of them is going to fail, it will be GW2, because at the moment we have not seen a lot of it. Chances are that what we expect is not what we are going to get.
there is no rational reason to think that GW2 will fail because ANet has been delivering on promised features (thus far), it has been getting nothing but positive reviews, and everyone who tried it went nuts about it. if the WvWvW reveal is good, the game will suck in everyone who loves sandbox pvp. if outdoor raids are good, the raider nerds will come as well.
TOR has been getting tons of bad press, many with a critical eye who played it were less than impressed, and BW hasnt actually delivered anything that's genre-changing. taking into consideration how much money went into the game, it certainly wont be a huge success. it's my opinion that not many people will actually stick with the game in the long run.
It won't suck in anyone who loves sandbox PvP, because NOTHING IS PERSISTENT. Once they realize it just resets at the end of the week and everything was for nothing, they'll go somewhere where persistent territory will always be there. (which SWTOR has). Sandbox PvP doesn't = 3 faction PvP.
TOR has been played by many, many more people than GW2, (hence more reviews) and its based around a payment model that requires people to continue to play, GW2 is based around people buying the box, they don't even have to play it.
Its my opinion GW2 will be just like GW1, the first couple months will be full of people, then they'll all move on to other games, and come back for the expansions. The only ones that will stay around are those jazzed about the competitive WvWvW feature, and that repetitiveness will only last so long.
GW1 was a good game, GW2 will be also, but I see SWTOR having much more longevity, even if all people do is play the personal stories.
I've also seen the opposite said, in regard to whether it feels "fresh" or not. There will always be two sides to such an opinion, or maybe three of four, tastes as well as approaches differ.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It won't suck in anyone who loves sandbox PvP, because NOTHING IS PERSISTENT. Once they realize it just resets at the end of the week and everything was for nothing, they'll go somewhere where persistent territory will always be there. (which SWTOR has). Sandbox PvP doesn't = 3 faction PvP.
youre being too idealistic. there isnt a single MMO out right now with SUCCESSFUL persistent PVP. WvWvW is a simulation of it, with tons of objectives. to counter population imbalances and gosu wtfpwn guilds that always win, it simply resets. common sense. just like LoL: it's a simulation of an MMO, played in the span of 1 hour. and millions of people play it every day. the only game with a persistent pvp mechanic is EVE, and how many people play it? it's garbage. this is what happens without rules and objectives.
perstistency means nothing. it's an intangible concept inside of a roleplayer's mind. ultimately, everything comes down to a fun and engaging combat mechanics, and something you can get into with ease.
there is ZERO information on anything even resembling sandbox in TOR. and by persistent territory, you must mean static and never-changing? because their version of open world pvp is the same as WoW's: contested PVE zones in which you can pvp on the go. and we all know how that worked out.
Few times you mean like 2 negative reviews out of many positive? this one espeically is even more interesting since the writer seems to dislike MMO genre. If Swtor and GW2 both fail to impress him what else is there out for him?
Few times you mean like 2 negative reviews out of many positive? this one espeically is even more interesting since the writer seems to dislike MMO genre. If Swtor and GW2 both fail to impress him what else is there out for him?
he loved GW2. anyway, the entire Massively.com staff deemed TOR meh-worthy. that speaks volumes.
he loved GW2. anyway, the entire Massively.com staff deemed TOR meh-worthy. that speaks volumes.
Oh did they now? I'm starting to find your statements meh-worthy. You've made up your mind based on words, what more need be said? You're completely sold on GW2, and have sold off TOR, based on no concrete fact, instead developer words and brief encounters with these games. Yet I'm supposed to believe you have an objective opinion, and I'm to expect a decent translation of what you've seen in those words?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
he loved GW2. anyway, the entire Massively.com staff deemed TOR meh-worthy. that speaks volumes.
Oh did they now? I'm starting to find your statements meh-worthy. You've made up your mind based on words, what more need be said? You're completely sold on GW2, and have sold off TOR, based on no concrete fact, instead developer words and brief encounters with these games. Yet I'm supposed to believe you have an objective opinion, and I'm to expect a decent translation of what you've seen in those words?
lol i dont want you to believe i have an "objective opinion". opinions are subjective. read it yourself. just go to Massively's site, go back a few weeks and read their comments after playing TOR. most were not very impressed. a lot of other respected gaming journalists were not impressed.
Few times you mean like 2 negative reviews out of many positive? this one espeically is even more interesting since the writer seems to dislike MMO genre. If Swtor and GW2 both fail to impress him what else is there out for him?
he loved GW2. anyway, the entire Massively.com staff deemed TOR meh-worthy. that speaks volumes.
No he didn't. its like chosing one of the lesser evil. Did he like it more than SWTOR yes but did he really like it? nope. And two negative reviews hardly means anything if you compare it side by side with all the positive ones.
When i got to play GW2 demo i met quite a few others who thought it was MEH but i loved it. Does it mean anything? nope. I hardlly let opinions of others sway my decisions professional or otherwise.
lol i dont want you to believe i have an "objective opinion". opinions are subjective. read it yourself. just go to Massively's site, go back a few weeks and read their comments after playing TOR. most were not very impressed. a lot of other respected gaming journalists were not impressed.
Which means what exactly? A lot of "respected" journalists have been pleasantly suprised as well. Which means just as much, absolutely nothing other than an opinion. I'm not sold or sold off by others opinions, I like to have my own.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
he loved GW2. anyway, the entire Massively.com staff deemed TOR meh-worthy. that speaks volumes.
Yes, it speaks volumes, namely that you're wrong and that you're biased and misinformed.
As for the Massively crew, here we go:
For the people worried that SWTOR is going to be all talking and no fighting, stop worrying. Combat itself was very satisfying - Royce, Massively
I know BioWare really shouldn't score points for this any more, but I have to mention the dialogue. I was stunned. The VO work was, of course, incredible, but so were the dialogue choices. I noticed, especially with the inquisitor dialogue, that it was not exactly that black and white. I loved it. If the inquisitor's dialogue is any indication of this, then the devs are definitely off in the right direction (Everett, Massively)
just as I went to find my contact, three resistance fighters jumped me from behind various ship parts in the hangar. I quickly dived behind the nearest wall and begun using my cover to fire back at them. Now, finally, after all this time, I felt like I was in a Star Wars movie. I dealt with those thugs and quickly ran over to my contact, triggering a cut-scene where I pulled him up off of the floor. He was shot, but he was fine enough to stand and tell me that my ship had been stolen by a mutual acquaintance. Now I was stuck on this rock, and my smuggler wanted some tasty, tasty revenge (Brennan, Massively)
The narrative is signature BioWare with strong writing and good voice acting; this allows the player to comfortably fall into the role of the aspiring padawan. The ability to choose your own direction in the dialogue immensely aids this immersion. For the people worried that SWTOR is going to be a Star Wars-themed World of Warcraft, you can rest easy too. The dialogue system guarantees that returning to your quest-giver isn't just a mad dash of clicks. Your quest choices actually matter. I never once had the urge to skip the quest text, and while sometimes I felt as though I were performing menial tasks in between watching a really awesome movie, I didn't care, because it was a really awesome movie. When players think of voiceover dialogue, they inevitably think of how it has gone so wrong in past games -- including past BioWare games. But in SWTOR, I knew by the third dialogue session that whatever BioWare spent on this stuff... it was all worth it - Royce, Massively
The characters [in the cutscenes] are utterly vivid and beautiful, even the "ugly" ones like the requisite tubby Twi'lek dude. They're magnetic. Their eyes in particular just draw you right in. The characters are animated and feel natural; their faces are believably expressive and unique, and the sample I saw drew from both genders and several ethnic groups. The characters don't just stand there woodenly bossing you around -- they interact with you, using their own colorful accents - Royce, Massively
The graphics aren't ultra-realistic; they have that chunky-smooth stylized-but-not-too-cartoony BioWare charm that's hard to describe. It's beautiful, and Tython's scenery impressed me at almost every turn - Royce, Massively
I know when the game was in early production and the developers had just started releasing screenshots, there were complaints about the characters seeming very cartoony and flat. I have to say, these characters were amazingly detailed, and although it was heightened realism, the quality of textures and depth of facial expression curtailed any criticism I might have had about the stylistic approach. One other thing that caught my eye in the midst of battle: There was no clipping. The graphics are incredibly polished, even in this beta stage (Larry Everett, Massively)
Visually, the game was a treat right off. The graphics have been tightened up and refined nicely, and everything moved fluidly. A few animations from the trailers have looked a touch stiff, but that isn't conveyed when you get to playing. The entire flashpoint was also filled with some impressive incidental graphics and surrounding events, keeping a sense of urgency up as your team moves forward (Eliot Lefebvre, Massively)
Like many of you readers, I've been wary of the hype and even warier of delusions of grandeur on the part of game companies trying to do justice to the IP. I was really afraid that it wouldn't be as good as I'd hoped and that I'd walk away disappointed. And given the parts I saw, SWTOR's not as good as I'd hoped. It's better - Royce, Massively
All throughout, the music set the tone. Whichever composer tackled Tython, bravo to you sir. On walking into the council hall, I was greeted with a beautiful reblend of John Williams' Yoda theme, not a blend in the unfortunate Shadows of the Empire soundtrack sense, but rather in a "John Williams could have written this" sense. Up until that point I was a little tense about the experience, because the KOTOR era isn't my favorite and it was feeling a bit too Mass Effect to me. The familiar music relaxed me. OK, I thought. This really is Star Wars - Royce, Massively
I think Blizzard and BioWare have a lot in common on this front. What Blizzard did so brilliantly with World of Warcraft was replace the "grind mobs to level" trope with something from the single-player RPG genre: quests. BioWare is taking that a step further and replacing the "silent questing" model with a truly interactive quest system, the kind popularized by (and now expected in) modern single-player games. That doesn't mean SWTOR is a single-player game that just happens to be online (especially given how much cooler quest dialogue is alongside your mates), but rather that SWTOR is employing beloved single-player mechanics to fill gaping holes in MMORPGs, holes that formed naturally when the very first designers tried stuffing thousands of people into a MUD/RPG hybrid. It wasn't truly possible to create an amazing MMORPG back then... but SWTOR is one giant step closer - Royce, Massively
[SWTOR is] one of the most incredibly polished games and easy-to-slide-into games I have have ever played (Larry Everett, Massively)
You can't know how a game is going to play at release based on just a single instance, but you can certainly make a reasonable guess. That thought kept moving through my head as I mulled over my play session for Star Wars: The Old Republic -- a positive thought, given how polished and comfortable the game felt from the second I sat down to play. I was expecting to see something much rougher around the edges, but what I wound up with felt like a finished game already (Eliot Lefebvre, Massively)
Star Wars: The Old Republic is an immensely polished, clean, and playable game. It imports elements from the familiar formula of MMO design, but the elements are handled with a grace and aplomb, and they feel natural. For a game that's several months out from launch, it seems to be playing and working astonishingly well. It's not full to the brim with revolutionary elements, but even the classic elements are both refreshing and well-organized. If there was any negative takeaway from the event, it was the simple fact that the game isn't out yet. Overall, it's renewed my already substantial enthusiasm. While there are people who won't like the themepark aegis of the game, there's clearly a lot to like as the game draws ever closer to release (Eliot Lefebvre, Massively)
Originally posted by sonoggi
most were not very impressed. a lot of other respected gaming journalists were not impressed.
Wrong, most of the journalists were impressed and excited.
Maybe you have trouble believing that if you don't like something, EVERYBODY doesn't like it or isn't supposed to enjoy it
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You know Maverick you are just wasting your time. It doesnt matter how many people give this game a good write up as long as one person doesnt that is the fuel people will use.
The way I see it, there is really no way for the fan base of one game to know the information that is out there for a game they AREN'T following...hopefully the hands on experience will remedy some of the problem.
Right... doesn't this apply for GW2 fans as well? The amount of misinformation and wrong conclusions about gameplay features is absurd, there's vastly more of that misinterpretation and misinformation being done in SWTOR threads by GW2 fans than there is misinformation and misinterpretations in GW2 threads by SWTOR fans.
I'm keeping track on GW2, SWTOR and TSW news and interviews so it's easy to spot the misunderstandings or wrong ideas when they happen.
Yes, it does. I mostly target this at SWTOR people because this is the SWTOR forum.
Also, I am very glad that people, such as yourself, spend time following multiple games. I personally get too focused on comparisons, partially because I know I won't be playing more than one game, and also because I am a die-hard fan of a certain game...If it were SWTOR, I would have trouble following any other game.
heck, I have a hard enough time finding the interest to follow an offline game I KNOW I am going to get, but thats mostly because offline games are completely different than offline games. (its ES: V)
Anyways...Allow me to ask a hypothetical question to you all. You took out EVERYTHING from both games, and basically did a blind test to see which combat you liked more, with absolutely everything else being equal, which would you choose? GW2 or SWTOR?
I suppose the answer for a lot of the people here, on an SWTOR forum, would say SWTOR. If so, that is fine, more power to you. If you don't even have the frame of reference to know you would say one or the other in a blind test, where you don't know which game is which (unless you know what the combat is like in both games, in which case its hardly a blind test...), then I doubt you really understand why the article being talked about in this thread says that GW2, not SWTOR, feels alive, fresh, and diverse. Its not about the story telling, they both should do that quite well...just in slightly different ways. Its not about PvP, open world, arena, or WvWvW, or whatever else. Its not about crafting or non combat activities. Its definetely not talking about the environment. Its not really even about the quest design, even though I LOVE what GW2 is doing. Its about what this reviewer obviously spent most of his time doing with his time playing either game. Fighting. Combat. The reviewer stated that he found the game enjoyable and lots of fun, even if his experience with MMOs isn't all that extensive. Are people going to feel the same way about SWTOR if they don't already have experience with MMOs? I don't know, I honestly think that the words "star Wars" and "Bioware" mean more to most people.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
he loved GW2. anyway, the entire Massively.com staff deemed TOR meh-worthy. that speaks volumes.
Yes, it speaks volumes, namely that you're wrong and that you're biased and misinformed.
As for the Massively crew, here we go:
For the people worried that SWTOR is going to be all talking and no fighting, stop worrying. Combat itself was very satisfying - Royce, Massively
I know BioWare really shouldn't score points for this any more, but I have to mention the dialogue. I was stunned. The VO work was, of course, incredible, but so were the dialogue choices. I noticed, especially with the inquisitor dialogue, that it was not exactly that black and white. I loved it. If the inquisitor's dialogue is any indication of this, then the devs are definitely off in the right direction (Everett, Massively)
just as I went to find my contact, three resistance fighters jumped me from behind various ship parts in the hangar. I quickly dived behind the nearest wall and begun using my cover to fire back at them. Now, finally, after all this time, I felt like I was in a Star Wars movie. I dealt with those thugs and quickly ran over to my contact, triggering a cut-scene where I pulled him up off of the floor. He was shot, but he was fine enough to stand and tell me that my ship had been stolen by a mutual acquaintance. Now I was stuck on this rock, and my smuggler wanted some tasty, tasty revenge (Brennan, Massively)
The narrative is signature BioWare with strong writing and good voice acting; this allows the player to comfortably fall into the role of the aspiring padawan. The ability to choose your own direction in the dialogue immensely aids this immersion. For the people worried that SWTOR is going to be a Star Wars-themed World of Warcraft, you can rest easy too. The dialogue system guarantees that returning to your quest-giver isn't just a mad dash of clicks. Your quest choices actually matter. I never once had the urge to skip the quest text, and while sometimes I felt as though I were performing menial tasks in between watching a really awesome movie, I didn't care, because it was a really awesome movie. When players think of voiceover dialogue, they inevitably think of how it has gone so wrong in past games -- including past BioWare games. But in SWTOR, I knew by the third dialogue session that whatever BioWare spent on this stuff... it was all worth it - Royce, Massively
The characters [in the cutscenes] are utterly vivid and beautiful, even the "ugly" ones like the requisite tubby Twi'lek dude. They're magnetic. Their eyes in particular just draw you right in. The characters are animated and feel natural; their faces are believably expressive and unique, and the sample I saw drew from both genders and several ethnic groups. The characters don't just stand there woodenly bossing you around -- they interact with you, using their own colorful accents - Royce, Massively
The graphics aren't ultra-realistic; they have that chunky-smooth stylized-but-not-too-cartoony BioWare charm that's hard to describe. It's beautiful, and Tython's scenery impressed me at almost every turn - Royce, Massively
I know when the game was in early production and the developers had just started releasing screenshots, there were complaints about the characters seeming very cartoony and flat. I have to say, these characters were amazingly detailed, and although it was heightened realism, the quality of textures and depth of facial expression curtailed any criticism I might have had about the stylistic approach. One other thing that caught my eye in the midst of battle: There was no clipping. The graphics are incredibly polished, even in this beta stage (Larry Everett, Massively)
Visually, the game was a treat right off. The graphics have been tightened up and refined nicely, and everything moved fluidly. A few animations from the trailers have looked a touch stiff, but that isn't conveyed when you get to playing. The entire flashpoint was also filled with some impressive incidental graphics and surrounding events, keeping a sense of urgency up as your team moves forward (Eliot Lefebvre, Massively)
Like many of you readers, I've been wary of the hype and even warier of delusions of grandeur on the part of game companies trying to do justice to the IP. I was really afraid that it wouldn't be as good as I'd hoped and that I'd walk away disappointed. And given the parts I saw, SWTOR's not as good as I'd hoped. It's better - Royce, Massively
All throughout, the music set the tone. Whichever composer tackled Tython, bravo to you sir. On walking into the council hall, I was greeted with a beautiful reblend of John Williams' Yoda theme, not a blend in the unfortunate Shadows of the Empire soundtrack sense, but rather in a "John Williams could have written this" sense. Up until that point I was a little tense about the experience, because the KOTOR era isn't my favorite and it was feeling a bit too Mass Effect to me. The familiar music relaxed me. OK, I thought. This really is Star Wars - Royce, Massively
I think Blizzard and BioWare have a lot in common on this front. What Blizzard did so brilliantly with World of Warcraft was replace the "grind mobs to level" trope with something from the single-player RPG genre: quests. BioWare is taking that a step further and replacing the "silent questing" model with a truly interactive quest system, the kind popularized by (and now expected in) modern single-player games. That doesn't mean SWTOR is a single-player game that just happens to be online (especially given how much cooler quest dialogue is alongside your mates), but rather that SWTOR is employing beloved single-player mechanics to fill gaping holes in MMORPGs, holes that formed naturally when the very first designers tried stuffing thousands of people into a MUD/RPG hybrid. It wasn't truly possible to create an amazing MMORPG back then... but SWTOR is one giant step closer - Royce, Massively
[SWTOR is] one of the most incredibly polished games and easy-to-slide-into games I have have ever played (Larry Everett, Massively)
You can't know how a game is going to play at release based on just a single instance, but you can certainly make a reasonable guess. That thought kept moving through my head as I mulled over my play session for Star Wars: The Old Republic -- a positive thought, given how polished and comfortable the game felt from the second I sat down to play. I was expecting to see something much rougher around the edges, but what I wound up with felt like a finished game already (Eliot Lefebvre, Massively)
Star Wars: The Old Republic is an immensely polished, clean, and playable game. It imports elements from the familiar formula of MMO design, but the elements are handled with a grace and aplomb, and they feel natural. For a game that's several months out from launch, it seems to be playing and working astonishingly well. It's not full to the brim with revolutionary elements, but even the classic elements are both refreshing and well-organized. If there was any negative takeaway from the event, it was the simple fact that the game isn't out yet. Overall, it's renewed my already substantial enthusiasm. While there are people who won't like the themepark aegis of the game, there's clearly a lot to like as the game draws ever closer to release (Eliot Lefebvre, Massively)
Originally posted by sonoggi
most were not very impressed. a lot of other respected gaming journalists were not impressed.
Wrong, most of the journalists were impressed and excited.
Maybe you have trouble believing that if you don't like something, EVERYBODY doesn't like it or isn't supposed to enjoy it
Heh , Really? All from Massively? It's like asking a bunch of people that hate WoW and tell them what they think about it. A nice long reply , but I'll trust the Rolling Stones more. I know alot are hyped about Star Wars , hell I always liked the Star Wars movies , but there's one hell of a difference between a movie and bringing a movie into a MMO and alot have tried in the past , and not because Lucas Arts are a part of it means it's gonna kick ass. Time and time again we've been amazed by previews and such , and when came time for release , alot were dissapointed. I'm guessing there will be a free trial , since I want to try it out , if not ... oh well ,good luck to you people.
Anyways...Allow me to ask a hypothetical question to you all. You took out EVERYTHING from both games, and basically did a blind test to see which combat you liked more, with absolutely everything else being equal, which would you choose? GW2 or SWTOR?
I suppose the answer for a lot of the people here, on an SWTOR forum, would say SWTOR.
It's hard to tell since I haven't played both but based on the information available and my experiences with GW, I'd choose GW2.
If the question was about story questing, I'd go for SWTOR.
If the question would be about world setting, I'd go for TSW, most original one I've encountered so far in MMORPG's, really a fresh and much needed break away from fantasy and scifi standards.
So, different answers when talking about different features.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Anyways...Allow me to ask a hypothetical question to you all. You took out EVERYTHING from both games, and basically did a blind test to see which combat you liked more, with absolutely everything else being equal, which would you choose? GW2 or SWTOR?
I personally can't say, as I've yet to try either to see which I like the feel of or fluidity of more. There are things in words and videos I've seen that I like or dislike about both, with TOR I want to see more moevement and how it handles the run and gun aspects of combat. I also am not a fan of standing around blasting each other point blank.
With GW2 I dislike all the particle effects, as well as some of the more arcade like looking elements such as Taz spins whie executing moves.
What I like about TOR so far is some focus on adding parrying and blocks with a weapon, as well as things such as personal shields, or cover abilities being used.
IN GW2 active dodging could be an interesting thing to throw in the mix.
The problem is the above are just opinions based on visuals or words, it's not a hands on feel for either so it's really hard to pick one over the other.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Wow, mmo players are fickle...A few bad reviews and they act like the sky is falling..Even when a vast majority of reviews are positive.
A thing to remember is, not every game is for everyone, and reviewers just share their opinion. professional or otherwise. That means a reviewer who hates questing is going to dispise an MMO that has a mass amount of it, even if they enjoy every other aspect.
Its also important to note that SWTOR is a rather basic MMO. It doesn't do much to change anything from what MMOs have been since EQ became a giant. the only thing it really does different is the players have an actual impact on the story-line, to my knowledge atlest no other MMO has that. Stories aren't even important in most MMOs, its just an excuse to break into some dudes castle, kill a dragon and get shiny new loot.
Playing Nothing waiting for The secret world Played WoW, DCU online, star wars: the old republic, city of heroes, city of villains, everquest, plenty more I'm probably forgetting or aren't worth noting.
Anyways...Allow me to ask a hypothetical question to you all. You took out EVERYTHING from both games, and basically did a blind test to see which combat you liked more, with absolutely everything else being equal, which would you choose? GW2 or SWTOR?
I personally can't say, as I've yet to try either to see which I like the feel of or fluidity of more. There are things in words and videos I've seen that I like or dislike about both, with TOR I want to see more moevement and how it handles the run and gun aspects of combat. I also am not a fan of standing around blasting each other point blank.
With GW2 I dislike all the particle effects, as well as some of the more arcade like looking elements such as Taz spins whie executing moves.
What I like about TOR so far is some focus on adding parrying and blocks with a weapon, as well as things such as personal shields, or cover abilities being used.
IN GW2 active dodging could be an interesting thing to throw in the mix.
The problem is the above are just opinions based on visuals or words, it's not a hands on feel for either so it's really hard to pick one over the other.
I get the feeling, from the videos I have seen of SWTOR, that there won't be much in the way of running and gunning. I feel its the same with almost allranged classes in MMOs. Personally, it makes videos really hard to watch because I know that, when playing the game, your perception of what is happening changes and your ability to focus on such things goes down quite a bit. Its partially for this reason that I dislike SWTOR's parrying animations, or at least, how they are implemented. I feel that I wouldn't really be paying any attention to the small movements of my character. They really aren't going to tell me anything useful (thats what the numbers scrolling above my head is for).
I feel that GW2s VERY LARGE amount of partical effects aren't so much of a bad thing, mostly because I know that, by seeing which animation just happened and where, I can work with another person to increase our combat effectiveness. I can see it being overwelming, but...its part of how they are helping players cope with not having the healer-tank-DPS trinity to coordinate team combat.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Originally posted by sonoggi honestly, the more bad press, the better. i want TOR to succeed and i would like to enjoy it. the more people give BW the truth, the higher the chances of them actually making some significant changes. i would kill for a sci fi MMO's with ANet behind it....maybe it will happen one day.
Ahhh, so if its bad press then it must be true?
Interesting logic there. Can you perhaps enlighten folks on why bad = true? All the folks who have had positive experiences are just wrong?
OR
Is it just that only opinions that happen to coincide with your own should be given credence? Even when then are in the MINORITY of opinions that have been shared? Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying your is invalid, but you ought to realize that its just an opinion, and it isnt any more or less right than the others that have been shared.
honestly, the more bad press, the better. i want TOR to succeed and i would like to enjoy it. the more people give BW the truth, the higher the chances of them actually making some significant changes.
i would kill for a sci fi MMO's with ANet behind it....maybe it will happen one day.
Ahhh, so if its bad press then it must be true?
Interesting logic there. Can you perhaps enlighten folks on why bad = true? All the folks who have had positive experiences are just wrong?
OR
Is it just that only opinions that happen to coincide with your own should be given credence? Even when then are in the MINORITY of opinions that have been shared? Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying your is invalid, but you ought to realize that its just an opinion, and it isnt any more or less right than the others that have been shared.
it stems from the phrase "the customer is always right". What he means is that people who have played the game might have a negative opinion about certain parts of the game, and its possible that, by altering parts of the game, Bioware can deliver a game that appeals to more people than if they did not make such changes. A set of fresh perspectives can indeed help a developer see things that they did not see before. Its not just putting things into a game because person X said so, its person X saying something that causes them to see what they can do to improve the game overall.
Anet does this, and I am sure that many other developers do as well. If they don't, they should. Its pretty much the same as having somebody else read a paper you have writting before you hand it in to a teacher...or why editors exist...its also why beta testing exists...most of the time.
I think what he should have said is constructive criticism from the press.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
honestly, the more bad press, the better. i want TOR to succeed and i would like to enjoy it. the more people give BW the truth, the higher the chances of them actually making some significant changes.
i would kill for a sci fi MMO's with ANet behind it....maybe it will happen one day.
Ahhh, so if its bad press then it must be true?
Interesting logic there. Can you perhaps enlighten folks on why bad = true? All the folks who have had positive experiences are just wrong?
OR
Is it just that only opinions that happen to coincide with your own should be given credence? Even when then are in the MINORITY of opinions that have been shared? Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying your is invalid, but you ought to realize that its just an opinion, and it isnt any more or less right than the others that have been shared.
it stems from the phrase "the customer is always right". What he means is that people who have played the game might have a negative opinion about certain parts of the game, and its possible that, by altering parts of the game, Bioware can deliver a game that appeals to more people than if they did not make such changes. A set of fresh perspectives can indeed help a developer see things that they did not see before. Its not just putting things into a game because person X said so, its person X saying something that causes them to see what they can do to improve the game overall.
Anet does this, and I am sure that many other developers do as well. If they don't, they should. Its pretty much the same as having somebody else read a paper you have writting before you hand it in to a teacher...or why editors exist...its also why beta testing exists...most of the time.
I think what he should have said is constructive criticism from the press.
The thing they have to be weary about is..If they change X to appeal more to person or persons Y, will person or persons Z like it less. They, and every other company, needs to sppeal to the majority of gamers. When it comes to MMOs, you can NEVER please all of the people, even some of the time. I'm all for them listening to the negitive feedback, as well as the positive to improve the game. They just have to be aware that if they change one thing just because of the negitive reviews, they might piss off a majority of the fans.
Playing Nothing waiting for The secret world Played WoW, DCU online, star wars: the old republic, city of heroes, city of villains, everquest, plenty more I'm probably forgetting or aren't worth noting.
Originally posted by sonoggi honestly, the more bad press, the better. i want TOR to succeed and i would like to enjoy it. the more people give BW the truth, the higher the chances of them actually making some significant changes. i would kill for a sci fi MMO's with ANet behind it....maybe it will happen one day.
Ahhh, so if its bad press then it must be true? Interesting logic there. Can you perhaps enlighten folks on why bad = true? All the folks who have had positive experiences are just wrong? OR Is it just that only opinions that happen to coincide with your own should be given credence? Even when then are in the MINORITY of opinions that have been shared? Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying your is invalid, but you ought to realize that its just an opinion, and it isnt any more or less right than the others that have been shared.
it stems from the phrase "the customer is always right". What he means is that people who have played the game might have a negative opinion about certain parts of the game, and its possible that, by altering parts of the game, Bioware can deliver a game that appeals to more people than if they did not make such changes. A set of fresh perspectives can indeed help a developer see things that they did not see before. Its not just putting things into a game because person X said so, its person X saying something that causes them to see what they can do to improve the game overall. Anet does this, and I am sure that many other developers do as well. If they don't, they should. Its pretty much the same as having somebody else read a paper you have writting before you hand it in to a teacher...or why editors exist...its also why beta testing exists...most of the time.
I think what he should have said is constructive criticism from the press.
Which is fair, and it's also by far a minority of reviews that have been shared. There isnt a game that will appeal to everyone, and I think if you looked at the forums here, you'd see ample evidence of how different opinions are.
Feedback is good, but if you are reaching your target audience, good for them, and evidently, based on the overwhelming positive feedback, I'd say they hit their mark.
And FYI Arenanet doesnt just put everything into a game either. If something actually was overwhelming negative, I'm sure they would....gee....just like Bioware has done. I think honestly you are drawing a connection that isnt accurate. This isnt a majority, in fact its in a minority.
honestly, the more bad press, the better. i want TOR to succeed and i would like to enjoy it. the more people give BW the truth, the higher the chances of them actually making some significant changes.
i would kill for a sci fi MMO's with ANet behind it....maybe it will happen one day.
Ahhh, so if its bad press then it must be true?
Interesting logic there. Can you perhaps enlighten folks on why bad = true? All the folks who have had positive experiences are just wrong?
OR
Is it just that only opinions that happen to coincide with your own should be given credence? Even when then are in the MINORITY of opinions that have been shared? Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying your is invalid, but you ought to realize that its just an opinion, and it isnt any more or less right than the others that have been shared.
it stems from the phrase "the customer is always right". What he means is that people who have played the game might have a negative opinion about certain parts of the game, and its possible that, by altering parts of the game, Bioware can deliver a game that appeals to more people than if they did not make such changes. A set of fresh perspectives can indeed help a developer see things that they did not see before. Its not just putting things into a game because person X said so, its person X saying something that causes them to see what they can do to improve the game overall.
Anet does this, and I am sure that many other developers do as well. If they don't, they should. Its pretty much the same as having somebody else read a paper you have writting before you hand it in to a teacher...or why editors exist...its also why beta testing exists...most of the time.
I think what he should have said is constructive criticism from the press.
Which is fair, and it's also by far a minority of reviews that have been shared. There isnt a game that will appeal to everyone, and I think if you looked at the forums here, you'd see ample evidence of how different opinions are.
Feedback is good, but if you are reaching your target audience, good for them, and evidently, based on the overwhelming positive feedback, I'd say they hit their mark.
And FYI Arenanet doesnt just put everything into a game either. If something actually was overwhelming negative, I'm sure they would....gee....just like Bioware has done. I think honestly you are drawing a connection that isnt accurate. This isnt a majority, in fact its in a minority.
yeah...thats what I just said...
Sonoggi may have some minority opinions, I wouldn't know about that, but not all minority opinions have to lead to changes that only benefit the minority. Overwelmingly positive reception or not, not everyone who wants to like the game will...I get the feeling that this has been said before numerous times by other people in this thread...
anyways...Im not arguing or anything. Just posting what I feel is or should be common knowlege because common knowlege is a lot like common sense...not everybody has it*.
*by this I don't mean anyone in particular
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
In reality both SWTOR ad GW2 are probably gonna be great games and most of us will probably play both at some time and enjoy them. I for one will be playing both and secret world too. For some reason this thread seems to be trying to prove one is better than the other. Most of us have probably played many of the same MMO games already, liked them and I think this will be no different.
Comments
Any game can "fail", previews and pre-release hype mean nothing, if a game has problems it will fail, it's as simple as that.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It won't suck in anyone who loves sandbox PvP, because NOTHING IS PERSISTENT. Once they realize it just resets at the end of the week and everything was for nothing, they'll go somewhere where persistent territory will always be there. (which SWTOR has). Sandbox PvP doesn't = 3 faction PvP.
TOR has been played by many, many more people than GW2, (hence more reviews) and its based around a payment model that requires people to continue to play, GW2 is based around people buying the box, they don't even have to play it.
Its my opinion GW2 will be just like GW1, the first couple months will be full of people, then they'll all move on to other games, and come back for the expansions. The only ones that will stay around are those jazzed about the competitive WvWvW feature, and that repetitiveness will only last so long.
GW1 was a good game, GW2 will be also, but I see SWTOR having much more longevity, even if all people do is play the personal stories.
I have seen this statement few times now.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
I've also seen the opposite said, in regard to whether it feels "fresh" or not. There will always be two sides to such an opinion, or maybe three of four, tastes as well as approaches differ.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
youre being too idealistic. there isnt a single MMO out right now with SUCCESSFUL persistent PVP. WvWvW is a simulation of it, with tons of objectives. to counter population imbalances and gosu wtfpwn guilds that always win, it simply resets. common sense. just like LoL: it's a simulation of an MMO, played in the span of 1 hour. and millions of people play it every day. the only game with a persistent pvp mechanic is EVE, and how many people play it? it's garbage. this is what happens without rules and objectives.
perstistency means nothing. it's an intangible concept inside of a roleplayer's mind. ultimately, everything comes down to a fun and engaging combat mechanics, and something you can get into with ease.
there is ZERO information on anything even resembling sandbox in TOR. and by persistent territory, you must mean static and never-changing? because their version of open world pvp is the same as WoW's: contested PVE zones in which you can pvp on the go. and we all know how that worked out.
Few times you mean like 2 negative reviews out of many positive? this one espeically is even more interesting since the writer seems to dislike MMO genre. If Swtor and GW2 both fail to impress him what else is there out for him?
he loved GW2. anyway, the entire Massively.com staff deemed TOR meh-worthy. that speaks volumes.
Oh did they now? I'm starting to find your statements meh-worthy. You've made up your mind based on words, what more need be said? You're completely sold on GW2, and have sold off TOR, based on no concrete fact, instead developer words and brief encounters with these games. Yet I'm supposed to believe you have an objective opinion, and I'm to expect a decent translation of what you've seen in those words?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
lol i dont want you to believe i have an "objective opinion". opinions are subjective. read it yourself. just go to Massively's site, go back a few weeks and read their comments after playing TOR. most were not very impressed. a lot of other respected gaming journalists were not impressed.
No he didn't. its like chosing one of the lesser evil. Did he like it more than SWTOR yes but did he really like it? nope. And two negative reviews hardly means anything if you compare it side by side with all the positive ones.
When i got to play GW2 demo i met quite a few others who thought it was MEH but i loved it. Does it mean anything? nope. I hardlly let opinions of others sway my decisions professional or otherwise.
Which means what exactly? A lot of "respected" journalists have been pleasantly suprised as well. Which means just as much, absolutely nothing other than an opinion. I'm not sold or sold off by others opinions, I like to have my own.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yes, it speaks volumes, namely that you're wrong and that you're biased and misinformed.
As for the Massively crew, here we go:
For the people worried that SWTOR is going to be all talking and no fighting, stop worrying. Combat itself was very satisfying - Royce, Massively
I know BioWare really shouldn't score points for this any more, but I have to mention the dialogue. I was stunned. The VO work was, of course, incredible, but so were the dialogue choices. I noticed, especially with the inquisitor dialogue, that it was not exactly that black and white. I loved it. If the inquisitor's dialogue is any indication of this, then the devs are definitely off in the right direction (Everett, Massively)
just as I went to find my contact, three resistance fighters jumped me from behind various ship parts in the hangar. I quickly dived behind the nearest wall and begun using my cover to fire back at them. Now, finally, after all this time, I felt like I was in a Star Wars movie. I dealt with those thugs and quickly ran over to my contact, triggering a cut-scene where I pulled him up off of the floor. He was shot, but he was fine enough to stand and tell me that my ship had been stolen by a mutual acquaintance. Now I was stuck on this rock, and my smuggler wanted some tasty, tasty revenge (Brennan, Massively)
The narrative is signature BioWare with strong writing and good voice acting; this allows the player to comfortably fall into the role of the aspiring padawan. The ability to choose your own direction in the dialogue immensely aids this immersion. For the people worried that SWTOR is going to be a Star Wars-themed World of Warcraft, you can rest easy too. The dialogue system guarantees that returning to your quest-giver isn't just a mad dash of clicks. Your quest choices actually matter. I never once had the urge to skip the quest text, and while sometimes I felt as though I were performing menial tasks in between watching a really awesome movie, I didn't care, because it was a really awesome movie. When players think of voiceover dialogue, they inevitably think of how it has gone so wrong in past games -- including past BioWare games. But in SWTOR, I knew by the third dialogue session that whatever BioWare spent on this stuff... it was all worth it - Royce, Massively
The characters [in the cutscenes] are utterly vivid and beautiful, even the "ugly" ones like the requisite tubby Twi'lek dude. They're magnetic. Their eyes in particular just draw you right in. The characters are animated and feel natural; their faces are believably expressive and unique, and the sample I saw drew from both genders and several ethnic groups. The characters don't just stand there woodenly bossing you around -- they interact with you, using their own colorful accents - Royce, Massively
The graphics aren't ultra-realistic; they have that chunky-smooth stylized-but-not-too-cartoony BioWare charm that's hard to describe. It's beautiful, and Tython's scenery impressed me at almost every turn - Royce, Massively
I know when the game was in early production and the developers had just started releasing screenshots, there were complaints about the characters seeming very cartoony and flat. I have to say, these characters were amazingly detailed, and although it was heightened realism, the quality of textures and depth of facial expression curtailed any criticism I might have had about the stylistic approach. One other thing that caught my eye in the midst of battle: There was no clipping. The graphics are incredibly polished, even in this beta stage (Larry Everett, Massively)
Visually, the game was a treat right off. The graphics have been tightened up and refined nicely, and everything moved fluidly. A few animations from the trailers have looked a touch stiff, but that isn't conveyed when you get to playing. The entire flashpoint was also filled with some impressive incidental graphics and surrounding events, keeping a sense of urgency up as your team moves forward (Eliot Lefebvre, Massively)
Like many of you readers, I've been wary of the hype and even warier of delusions of grandeur on the part of game companies trying to do justice to the IP. I was really afraid that it wouldn't be as good as I'd hoped and that I'd walk away disappointed. And given the parts I saw, SWTOR's not as good as I'd hoped. It's better - Royce, Massively
All throughout, the music set the tone. Whichever composer tackled Tython, bravo to you sir. On walking into the council hall, I was greeted with a beautiful reblend of John Williams' Yoda theme, not a blend in the unfortunate Shadows of the Empire soundtrack sense, but rather in a "John Williams could have written this" sense. Up until that point I was a little tense about the experience, because the KOTOR era isn't my favorite and it was feeling a bit too Mass Effect to me. The familiar music relaxed me. OK, I thought. This really is Star Wars - Royce, Massively
I think Blizzard and BioWare have a lot in common on this front. What Blizzard did so brilliantly with World of Warcraft was replace the "grind mobs to level" trope with something from the single-player RPG genre: quests. BioWare is taking that a step further and replacing the "silent questing" model with a truly interactive quest system, the kind popularized by (and now expected in) modern single-player games. That doesn't mean SWTOR is a single-player game that just happens to be online (especially given how much cooler quest dialogue is alongside your mates), but rather that SWTOR is employing beloved single-player mechanics to fill gaping holes in MMORPGs, holes that formed naturally when the very first designers tried stuffing thousands of people into a MUD/RPG hybrid. It wasn't truly possible to create an amazing MMORPG back then... but SWTOR is one giant step closer - Royce, Massively
[SWTOR is] one of the most incredibly polished games and easy-to-slide-into games I have have ever played (Larry Everett, Massively)
You can't know how a game is going to play at release based on just a single instance, but you can certainly make a reasonable guess. That thought kept moving through my head as I mulled over my play session for Star Wars: The Old Republic -- a positive thought, given how polished and comfortable the game felt from the second I sat down to play. I was expecting to see something much rougher around the edges, but what I wound up with felt like a finished game already (Eliot Lefebvre, Massively)
Star Wars: The Old Republic is an immensely polished, clean, and playable game. It imports elements from the familiar formula of MMO design, but the elements are handled with a grace and aplomb, and they feel natural. For a game that's several months out from launch, it seems to be playing and working astonishingly well. It's not full to the brim with revolutionary elements, but even the classic elements are both refreshing and well-organized. If there was any negative takeaway from the event, it was the simple fact that the game isn't out yet. Overall, it's renewed my already substantial enthusiasm. While there are people who won't like the themepark aegis of the game, there's clearly a lot to like as the game draws ever closer to release (Eliot Lefebvre, Massively)
Wrong, most of the journalists were impressed and excited.
Maybe you have trouble believing that if you don't like something, EVERYBODY doesn't like it or isn't supposed to enjoy it
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You know Maverick you are just wasting your time. It doesnt matter how many people give this game a good write up as long as one person doesnt that is the fuel people will use.
Yes, it does. I mostly target this at SWTOR people because this is the SWTOR forum.
Also, I am very glad that people, such as yourself, spend time following multiple games. I personally get too focused on comparisons, partially because I know I won't be playing more than one game, and also because I am a die-hard fan of a certain game...If it were SWTOR, I would have trouble following any other game.
heck, I have a hard enough time finding the interest to follow an offline game I KNOW I am going to get, but thats mostly because offline games are completely different than offline games. (its ES: V)
Anyways...Allow me to ask a hypothetical question to you all. You took out EVERYTHING from both games, and basically did a blind test to see which combat you liked more, with absolutely everything else being equal, which would you choose? GW2 or SWTOR?
I suppose the answer for a lot of the people here, on an SWTOR forum, would say SWTOR. If so, that is fine, more power to you. If you don't even have the frame of reference to know you would say one or the other in a blind test, where you don't know which game is which (unless you know what the combat is like in both games, in which case its hardly a blind test...), then I doubt you really understand why the article being talked about in this thread says that GW2, not SWTOR, feels alive, fresh, and diverse. Its not about the story telling, they both should do that quite well...just in slightly different ways. Its not about PvP, open world, arena, or WvWvW, or whatever else. Its not about crafting or non combat activities. Its definetely not talking about the environment. Its not really even about the quest design, even though I LOVE what GW2 is doing. Its about what this reviewer obviously spent most of his time doing with his time playing either game. Fighting. Combat. The reviewer stated that he found the game enjoyable and lots of fun, even if his experience with MMOs isn't all that extensive. Are people going to feel the same way about SWTOR if they don't already have experience with MMOs? I don't know, I honestly think that the words "star Wars" and "Bioware" mean more to most people.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Heh , Really? All from Massively? It's like asking a bunch of people that hate WoW and tell them what they think about it. A nice long reply , but I'll trust the Rolling Stones more. I know alot are hyped about Star Wars , hell I always liked the Star Wars movies , but there's one hell of a difference between a movie and bringing a movie into a MMO and alot have tried in the past , and not because Lucas Arts are a part of it means it's gonna kick ass. Time and time again we've been amazed by previews and such , and when came time for release , alot were dissapointed. I'm guessing there will be a free trial , since I want to try it out , if not ... oh well ,good luck to you people.
It's hard to tell since I haven't played both but based on the information available and my experiences with GW, I'd choose GW2.
If the question was about story questing, I'd go for SWTOR.
If the question would be about world setting, I'd go for TSW, most original one I've encountered so far in MMORPG's, really a fresh and much needed break away from fantasy and scifi standards.
So, different answers when talking about different features.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I personally can't say, as I've yet to try either to see which I like the feel of or fluidity of more. There are things in words and videos I've seen that I like or dislike about both, with TOR I want to see more moevement and how it handles the run and gun aspects of combat. I also am not a fan of standing around blasting each other point blank.
With GW2 I dislike all the particle effects, as well as some of the more arcade like looking elements such as Taz spins whie executing moves.
What I like about TOR so far is some focus on adding parrying and blocks with a weapon, as well as things such as personal shields, or cover abilities being used.
IN GW2 active dodging could be an interesting thing to throw in the mix.
The problem is the above are just opinions based on visuals or words, it's not a hands on feel for either so it's really hard to pick one over the other.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Wow, mmo players are fickle...A few bad reviews and they act like the sky is falling..Even when a vast majority of reviews are positive.
A thing to remember is, not every game is for everyone, and reviewers just share their opinion. professional or otherwise. That means a reviewer who hates questing is going to dispise an MMO that has a mass amount of it, even if they enjoy every other aspect.
Its also important to note that SWTOR is a rather basic MMO. It doesn't do much to change anything from what MMOs have been since EQ became a giant. the only thing it really does different is the players have an actual impact on the story-line, to my knowledge atlest no other MMO has that. Stories aren't even important in most MMOs, its just an excuse to break into some dudes castle, kill a dragon and get shiny new loot.
Playing
Nothing
waiting for
The secret world
Played
WoW, DCU online, star wars: the old republic, city of heroes, city of villains, everquest, plenty more I'm probably forgetting or aren't worth noting.
I get the feeling, from the videos I have seen of SWTOR, that there won't be much in the way of running and gunning. I feel its the same with almost allranged classes in MMOs. Personally, it makes videos really hard to watch because I know that, when playing the game, your perception of what is happening changes and your ability to focus on such things goes down quite a bit. Its partially for this reason that I dislike SWTOR's parrying animations, or at least, how they are implemented. I feel that I wouldn't really be paying any attention to the small movements of my character. They really aren't going to tell me anything useful (thats what the numbers scrolling above my head is for).
I feel that GW2s VERY LARGE amount of partical effects aren't so much of a bad thing, mostly because I know that, by seeing which animation just happened and where, I can work with another person to increase our combat effectiveness. I can see it being overwelming, but...its part of how they are helping players cope with not having the healer-tank-DPS trinity to coordinate team combat.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Ahhh, so if its bad press then it must be true?
Interesting logic there. Can you perhaps enlighten folks on why bad = true? All the folks who have had positive experiences are just wrong?
OR
Is it just that only opinions that happen to coincide with your own should be given credence? Even when then are in the MINORITY of opinions that have been shared? Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying your is invalid, but you ought to realize that its just an opinion, and it isnt any more or less right than the others that have been shared.
it stems from the phrase "the customer is always right". What he means is that people who have played the game might have a negative opinion about certain parts of the game, and its possible that, by altering parts of the game, Bioware can deliver a game that appeals to more people than if they did not make such changes. A set of fresh perspectives can indeed help a developer see things that they did not see before. Its not just putting things into a game because person X said so, its person X saying something that causes them to see what they can do to improve the game overall.
Anet does this, and I am sure that many other developers do as well. If they don't, they should. Its pretty much the same as having somebody else read a paper you have writting before you hand it in to a teacher...or why editors exist...its also why beta testing exists...most of the time.
I think what he should have said is constructive criticism from the press.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
The thing they have to be weary about is..If they change X to appeal more to person or persons Y, will person or persons Z like it less. They, and every other company, needs to sppeal to the majority of gamers. When it comes to MMOs, you can NEVER please all of the people, even some of the time. I'm all for them listening to the negitive feedback, as well as the positive to improve the game. They just have to be aware that if they change one thing just because of the negitive reviews, they might piss off a majority of the fans.
Playing
Nothing
waiting for
The secret world
Played
WoW, DCU online, star wars: the old republic, city of heroes, city of villains, everquest, plenty more I'm probably forgetting or aren't worth noting.
Which is fair, and it's also by far a minority of reviews that have been shared. There isnt a game that will appeal to everyone, and I think if you looked at the forums here, you'd see ample evidence of how different opinions are.
Feedback is good, but if you are reaching your target audience, good for them, and evidently, based on the overwhelming positive feedback, I'd say they hit their mark.
And FYI Arenanet doesnt just put everything into a game either. If something actually was overwhelming negative, I'm sure they would....gee....just like Bioware has done. I think honestly you are drawing a connection that isnt accurate. This isnt a majority, in fact its in a minority.
yeah...thats what I just said...
Sonoggi may have some minority opinions, I wouldn't know about that, but not all minority opinions have to lead to changes that only benefit the minority. Overwelmingly positive reception or not, not everyone who wants to like the game will...I get the feeling that this has been said before numerous times by other people in this thread...
anyways...Im not arguing or anything. Just posting what I feel is or should be common knowlege because common knowlege is a lot like common sense...not everybody has it*.
*by this I don't mean anyone in particular
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
In reality both SWTOR ad GW2 are probably gonna be great games and most of us will probably play both at some time and enjoy them. I for one will be playing both and secret world too. For some reason this thread seems to be trying to prove one is better than the other. Most of us have probably played many of the same MMO games already, liked them and I think this will be no different.