I can see here that some people are too "Wowed" by WoW to see that it has any faults. That will never change. Some people just hating it for the SAKE of hating it....will also never change. The fact of the matter is, WoW, like every game, is imperfect. Enjoy it for what it is until you don't enjoy it anymore. Then....move on. It's really a pretty useless habit to spend time building it up like it's a god or tearing it down like it's a shit house. It's neither. It's simply a game. It's a game that had a part in writing gaming history, just like UO and EQ and EVE and many others. Right now it's the "800 lb. gorilla." That won't last forever. Nothing lasts forever. /shrug
When it takes 18 hours (if that) to do what used to take 4 or 5 days of played time and as soon as you hit max level you can pretty much be ready to raid in 5 hours is easy mode. Compared to what WoW used to be or what games like Vanguard are or what basically most games around the start of WoW were, its easy mode.
WoW has something for everyone, it isn't a matter of being "EZ mode" its a matter of time required. Which is fine by me, time is a valued commodity for me and quite honest i like to spend it having fun and not being frustrated or doing chores when i'm looking for entertainment.
WoW has parts of the game that require extensive amounts of time, however to play almost every facet of the game you don't have to dump your life into it.
People judge difficulty with time spent on most occassions.
WoW has its problems as does any game, haters and fanbois are of the same breed and it needs to die.
Well if you read my responce then you can see I wasn't talking about time it takes nor was I hating. The fact is the examples I gave can be done by anyone who wants to sit here and defend the game as not being easy. Killing a mob in 2-3 hits while taking next to no damage is 1 example I can give and anyone can go in there and see it deosn't change from begining to end. Things like that are why the game is too easy. I am neither a fanboi nor a hater but this topic can be discussed without the need to resort to claiming people are one or the other no?
The problem with WoW is Blizzard tried to make the game everything to everyone. They kept adding new features (not new as in never done before, just new to the game) and giving the playerbase more things to do. Problem is the players then started complaining how they couldn't do everything offered in their limited playtimes, so things were simplified. Convoluted systems were tweaked to be easier to understand, content that took a bit of planning and commitment had their restrictions eased up to allow even the most casual raiders a chance. Its not a bad thing really, but it did lead to the overall problem.
What really happened was with each patch, each expansion and each tweak, Blizzard lost its path with WoW. They kept trying to chamge the overall game (Is it an MMO? Is it a lobby game? Is it an E-Sport?) to the point that players got a bit overwhelmed and confused. So Blizzard tried to rein in the changes, make the systems (talents, gear stats, etc) easier to follow and learn, made leveling and the gear grind easier to manage and overall limited the amount of 'work' needed to accomplish tasks in the game. And somewhere in those changes and tweaks the game lost its soul.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
WoW has something for everyone, it isn't a matter of being "EZ mode" its a matter of time required. Which is fine by me, time is a valued commodity for me and quite honest i like to spend it having fun and not being frustrated or doing chores when i'm looking for entertainment.
WoW has parts of the game that require extensive amounts of time, however to play almost every facet of the game you don't have to dump your life into it.
People judge difficulty with time spent on most occassions.
WoW has its problems as does any game, haters and fanbois are of the same breed and it needs to die.
Well if you read my responce then you can see I wasn't talking about time it takes nor was I hating. The fact is the examples I gave can be done by anyone who wants to sit here and defend the game as not being easy. Killing a mob in 2-3 hits while taking next to no damage is 1 example I can give and anyone can go in there and see it deosn't change from begining to end. Things like that are why the game is too easy. I am neither a fanboi nor a hater but this topic can be discussed without the need to resort to claiming people are one or the other no?
I honestly didn't read your post, i didn't qoute your post or even indicate i was talking about you so calm down. Also leveling from 1-85 in wow you can't 2-3 shot every mob or even the majority of. You also won't get by leveling 1-85 without dying. So you're talking out of your ass. Now if you're a twinked toon leveling with plenty of heirlooms, then alot of the low level content becomes trivial. Heirlooms are for the soul purpose of boosting toons quicker for people who obviously played the game enough to acquire the items to allow it. Though the majority of players play without looms and enjoy the game for what it is.
You are right, the first time playing through you probebly will die leveling from 1-85, although cata did water down the content so much if you are experianced in mmo's then its not hard NOT to die lvling up, money is easy to get especially if you pick up a gathering trade skill though quests provide more then enough to not really have to worry about it at all.
Outlands are a joke, the difficulty of mobs scales identical to the older content but gear is much much better compared to the old continent gear even the ones the same lvl. Not dieing there is easy as sin (yes talking non twimk) , unless you deside to try to solo the group quests, but then again.. thats a common sense issue.
Northend, difficulty is slightly below Outlands but the gear again.. is much much better. There are more then enough "easy"quests to outlvl the next zone before you get there. Its especially easy with an flying mount which is VERY easy to obtain unless you hump the AH.
Cataclyst zones.. dieing there is worth an achievement.
You are right, the first time playing through you probebly will die leveling from 1-85, although cata did water down the content so much if you are experianced in mmo's then its not hard NOT to die lvling up, money is easy to get especially if you pick up a gathering trade skill though quests provide more then enough to not really have to worry about it at all.
Outlands are a joke, the difficulty of mobs scales identical to the older content but gear is much much better compared to the old continent gear even the ones the same lvl. Not dieing there is easy as sin (yes talking non twimk) , unless you deside to try to solo the group quests, but then again.. thats a common sense issue.
Northend, difficulty is slightly below Outlands but the gear again.. is much much better. There are more then enough "easy"quests to outlvl the next zone before you get there. Its especially easy with an flying mount which is VERY easy to obtain unless you hump the AH.
Cataclyst zones.. dieing there is worth an achievement.
When I was leveling my lock from 80 to 85 (no heirlooms but some gear from the raid before ICC) and I was able to kill most mobs VERY easily using 3 or 4 skills (in the same rotation each time) sometimes before it even got to me. All my other skills were worthless in general combat and I didnt die unless I REALLY didnt pay attention and got a ton of mobs on me. The game is easy.
I want to point out though that I typed this then re read your post and noticed that I must be replying to something I thought I read. So I'll just ammend it to my "this game is too easy" comment.
Edit: Okay, I was replying to the guy you quoted. Makes sense now.
You are right, the first time playing through you probebly will die leveling from 1-85, although cata did water down the content so much if you are experianced in mmo's then its not hard NOT to die lvling up, money is easy to get especially if you pick up a gathering trade skill though quests provide more then enough to not really have to worry about it at all.
Outlands are a joke, the difficulty of mobs scales identical to the older content but gear is much much better compared to the old continent gear even the ones the same lvl. Not dieing there is easy as sin (yes talking non twimk) , unless you deside to try to solo the group quests, but then again.. thats a common sense issue.
Northend, difficulty is slightly below Outlands but the gear again.. is much much better. There are more then enough "easy"quests to outlvl the next zone before you get there. Its especially easy with an flying mount which is VERY easy to obtain unless you hump the AH.
Cataclyst zones.. dieing there is worth an achievement.
When I was leveling my lock from 80 to 85 (no heirlooms but some gear from the raid before ICC) and I was able to kill most mobs VERY easily using 3 or 4 skills (in the same rotation each time) sometimes before it even got to me. All my other skills were worthless in general combat and I didnt die unless I REALLY didnt pay attention and got a ton of mobs on me. The game is easy.
I want to point out though that I typed this then re read your post and noticed that I must be replying to something I thought I read. So I'll just ammend it to my "this game is too easy" comment.
Looks like we are in agreement.
I dont think WoW is bad at all, but it is what it is. It IS one of the.. lighter mmo's out there.
You are right, the first time playing through you probebly will die leveling from 1-85, although cata did water down the content so much if you are experianced in mmo's then its not hard NOT to die lvling up, money is easy to get especially if you pick up a gathering trade skill though quests provide more then enough to not really have to worry about it at all.
Outlands are a joke, the difficulty of mobs scales identical to the older content but gear is much much better compared to the old continent gear even the ones the same lvl. Not dieing there is easy as sin (yes talking non twimk) , unless you deside to try to solo the group quests, but then again.. thats a common sense issue.
Northend, difficulty is slightly below Outlands but the gear again.. is much much better. There are more then enough "easy"quests to outlvl the next zone before you get there. Its especially easy with an flying mount which is VERY easy to obtain unless you hump the AH.
Cataclyst zones.. dieing there is worth an achievement.
When I was leveling my lock from 80 to 85 (no heirlooms but some gear from the raid before ICC) and I was able to kill most mobs VERY easily using 3 or 4 skills (in the same rotation each time) sometimes before it even got to me. All my other skills were worthless in general combat and I didnt die unless I REALLY didnt pay attention and got a ton of mobs on me. The game is easy.
I want to point out though that I typed this then re read your post and noticed that I must be replying to something I thought I read. So I'll just ammend it to my "this game is too easy" comment.
Looks like we are in agreement.
I dont think WoW is bad at all, but it is what it is. It IS one of the.. lighter mmo's out there.
While i agree wow isn't "hard" i don't agree that it is "easy". How do you classify a game with so many facets as such. Give me an example of a "heavy mmo?" or an mmo that isn't light.
Either way it all comes down to time vs skill. That said I haven't come across an mmo that requires any skill leveling up that didn't involve pvp.
Have to amend this post, i found FFXI quite challenging leveling up when it was released.
Easy is a very subjective term, but a heavier MMO is easy.. Lineage2, Everquest Anarchy online. Anarchy online especially in the earlier days was so involved it actually required out of game planning and calculating JUST to get your "better"gear on.
Aoc is another great excample where you actually had to think what to press JUST to get your attacks off. I wouldnt go as far as calling it hard, just more involved, which to ,most people leads to being.. harder.
Unlike WoW in these games you actually did have to pay attention to the fight instead of mashing the 1 key blindly or what ever key you feel like pressing at the time.
The thing that really bores me in WoW is the fact that you can use the same exact 3-4 button combo to take down any PVE opponent even without looking at the screen, you could read while doing it. That makes it boring to me... Practically all the world PVE mobs are the same with different skins and the differences in them are so minor that they really don't change a thing...
I'd like to see opponents that you couldn't beat with that same rumble of button presses, but actually had to look at the screen and react to what's going on on it. This is why the PVP is still moderately challenging, since you can't just do the "same old, same old".
Basically the mob AI needs a transplant to make it intresting... I don't care if there is a death penalty or not, but I certainly did plan my actions quite more carefully in Darkfall than in WoW.
And the "same old, same old" button combo to kill everything combined with the monotoneous "kill x, go there" questing, it gets old quite fast. Where is the challenge???
The thing that really bores me in WoW is the fact that you can use the same exact 3-4 button combo to take down any PVE opponent even without looking at the screen, you could read while doing it. That makes it boring to me... Practically all the world PVE mobs are the same with different skins and the differences in them are so minor that they really don't change a thing...
I'd like to see opponents that you couldn't beat with that same rumble of button presses, but actually had to look at the screen and react to what's going on on it. This is why the PVP is still moderately challenging, since you can't just do the "same old, same old".
Basically the mob AI needs a transplant to make it intresting... I don't care if there is a death penalty or not, but I certainly did plan my actions quite more carefully in Darkfall than in WoW.
And the "same old, same old" button combo to kill everything combined with the monotoneous "kill x, go there" questing, it gets old quite fast. Where is the challenge???
Sadly pvp isnt all that different nowadays either. Seems the higher key requirement doesnt really come till arenas and instances.
But again "easy" really is subjective.
That said I do consider WoW a light mmo and very suiteble for someone new to Mmo's in general. Is it a mmo for noobs then? Nah thats more a matter of taste. Just think of cars. Some people love the red ferari and others want them in yellow.
To be honest, I always felt Everquest was pretty darn easy. You just ran over to some area and sat against a wall for three hours while the tank or designated puller brings mobs to you. Combat was slow-paced, so you could pretty much carry on a conversation with your guild and/or group mid-fight while munching on a bag of cheeto puffs. Try doing that while tanking and pulling in WoW.
Anything that was hard about the game had to do with timesinks or gear-gating. Back when I played EQ, most of the PoP content 55 and up was considered fairly difficult, but that's only because the mobs quad hit like mack trucks and required you have a certain level of gear to tank efficiently without giving your healer a brain aneurysm.
To be honest, I always felt Everquest was pretty darn easy. You just ran over to some area and sat against a wall for three hours while the tank or designated puller brings mobs to you. Combat was slow-paced, so you could pretty much carry on a conversation with your guild and/or group mid-fight while munching on a bag of cheeto puffs. Try doing that while tanking and pulling in WoW.
Except on EQ you had to build agro and it was very common for adds to just pat by , while on WoW , dead is dead and, mobs are placed in a fasion where you have a very limited amounth of mobs on pulls.
Where on EQ it took either and in some cases both a Feigh death puller to split mobs to a reasonable amounth of mobs to fight or to CC.
Only thing that may be easier was the slower combat pase. I dont any problems watching movies even the ones where Im forced to read sub tittles.
I honestly didn't read your post, i didn't qoute your post or even indicate i was talking about you so calm down. Also leveling from 1-85 in wow you can't 2-3 shot every mob or even the majority of. You also won't get by leveling 1-85 without dying. So you're talking out of your ass. Now if you're a twinked toon leveling with plenty of heirlooms, then alot of the low level content becomes trivial. Heirlooms are for the soul purpose of boosting toons quicker for people who obviously played the game enough to acquire the items to allow it. Though the majority of players play without looms and enjoy the game for what it is.
My responce wasn't an attack and I didn't think you were quoting me at all. But had you read my post it was the exact opposite of what you said which was why I used myself as an example. And no I am not talking out of my ass. When they streamlined the skilltrees for the preperation for cata it really did make classes rediculousely overpowered. Since I rolled war I'll use war as an example.
Having Bloodthirst at 10 was it? and victory rush at 5 made the class unbeleivably easy. Try it charge and victory rush then do another strike and a mob is done or pretty much so. Since you didn't read my post I'll say again. I rolled a war with my wife to experience the old zones changes and didn't wear any heirloom whatsoever. I also wasn't guilded so I didn't get the exp buff from that but that's beside the point. Yes mobs still got killed in 2-3 hits for the most part. I also stated that you lost almost no health during fights and this is another example of why I think WoW is cake. Not a false claim and anyone can do it because the game is easy.
I feel like I have to keep stating that I am not bashing the game. I am only stating my opinion on the topic. I played the game for years because my real friends are in the game and my wife loves it. The game has gotten watered down to the point that I can't enjoy going through any of it's content because I get bored. Just my 2 cents and not an attack in any way.
I'd say the easiest answer is the response to the nature of "grind" in WoW. With each expansion release, it seems lvling and the overall " grind" is significantly reduced let alone if you compare the game at release in contrast to its current evolution, its significantly easier. That's expected of an mmo after its been in the market for a while but WoW never had either the same learning curve, "grind" or was demanding in player finesse than othe mmo's. We can name a litany of games WoW can be argued to be harder than but we can name a significant number more that it could be considered "easy~mode".
Frankly it doesn't make the game any more or less enjoyable despite the "easy~mode" title but when for ppl who consider themselves mmo veterans, the best thing I could say is WoW is a good game but it has reached the ceiling for being silly as far as the difficulty level goes. Again, some ppl like that some don't. It is what it is.
It seems you are not getting me people say ez mode its not that the game is easy it that it is allot different from vanilla/TBC In turn macking the game in to ez mode.
Seriously, I want to know what makes people spew vitriol and call WoW an "EZ Mode" game. I've played it and loved it. Got burnt out on it, and have come back off and on because other MMOs just don't have the sheer amount of polish, quality and content that WoW does. So where is this EZ mode aspect? I've gotten to the endgame multiple times and have NEVER beaten high end raids without them being 2 years old and my level far above the intended level they were built for. Even Cata's heroics are a PITA and I rarely do them do to difficulty and the small fact it takes forever to queue for them.
That's the problem , the only thing hard in WoW is raids and some instances.
Most instances but more importantly levelling is TOO EASY. That is why it is easy mode. It is no problem to NOT die while levelling even once. Which is totally ridiculous.
You can just go to mob in open world and spam any dps skill and you will kill it no problem. It is also way too fast.
Things that have changed since I started WoW which was toward the end of Vanilla.
Quest XP went way up (in BC).
Gear availability went way up (in BC).
Mounts at 20, was 40 and now much cheaper.
Epics at 40, was 60 and now much cheaper.
Flyers at 60, was 70 and now much cheaper.
Class specific quests for epics removed? (Paladin and Warlock)
Quest system provides much more information.
+heal and +dmg gear merged into +spellpower
Ammunition removed from hunters.
Pet leveling removed from hunter pets.
Pet loyalty development from hunter pets.
Cross server dungeon finder made running dungeons a fast alternative to questing.
Unified talent trees making it impossible to mess up a build.
Level progression became much faster in Cata.
Travel became much faster in Cata with all the new flight paths.
Dungeons reworked for shorter playtime but kept the same rewards.
Heirloom gear provides non-stop blue quality stats without instancing for gear.
Purchasable epics at the auction house became common.
None of these as individual changes made had much effect on their own, but together the change is that level progression is now significantly faster and easier than it was in Vanilla.
I see this as a refocus of design toward endgame centric gameplay. Blizzard reduced the time-sink barrier of entry to heroics and endgame raiding. I don't go so far as calling "EZ Mode" . Certainly heroics and raids are tough, just that the ease and speed of leveling changed to match the endgame centric gameplay.
edit: kant spel
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Well, for me it was a lot of things. First, honestly I didn't find it hard in Vanilla. Was kinda put off on launch day by how easy it all was. (When I was able to login.) But than it just started changing, little things here and there. As it's popularity grew, it just kept getting easier. Leveling became WAY to easy and fast. Cutting the level and cost of mounts I thought was a huge mistake. Before you had to walk to 40, than hope you could afford it even than, now it's 20 and dirt cheap. I thought flying mounts were also a mistake, sure I dug them just like everyone else, but common, the Outlands was cake because of them. Fly to objective, land, slaughter target, fly away. No longer had to fight to the target. The community itself didn't help, how many 1000's of mods did we need to make an easy game easier. DBM to me ruined raiding. That and the general lack of patience and desire to figure anything out shown by most players. About to jump in a new Raid, one sec, let's check Youtube. Ok, got the strat, lets go. UGH. Than of course the Finders came along, crushed the community. World is empty now by comparrison because everyone is sitting around in a single city waiting for something to pop.
I recently got a free 7 days thing from Blizzard. Installed again for the first time in about a year. Log in my toon, fall through the world, endlessly. (Nice polish.) Grab my 80 alt, same thing. Make a new toon, contact a gm, toons returned. Than I spent 2 hours running around doing stupid easy quets, in a zone I never saw a single player in other than my daughter. And this is new content, some underwater area. Exit game, uninstall. Had my fun in WoW, it's done for me.
And honestly, I don't blame Blizzard, or Funcom, or Trion, or any of them. I blame the core player base. This is what they wanted, what they demanded. And they got it. I'm truly glad they are having fun, but that's just not for me.
It's always the same, watch a new games forum before and just after launch. Same questions again and again. "What's the best class?", "(Insert Class here) is OP!!!", "Nerf the (insert class here)", "What's the fastest way to level?" And on and on.
Everthing now has to be simple because the core doesn't want a challenge. Everything has to be instant gratification because they don't want to have to actually earn anything. Ever. I've run many guilds, and I have seen far to many "Run me through Deadmines", "Can someone powerlevel me?", "When do I get promoted?", "When do I get bank access?"
I can't honestly even guess how many times I've seen players in chat saying "Where is this quest?". When it's right in the quest text. I as politely as possible point this out to them and get "I don't want to read, where is it?" After telling the first 1000 or so players in LOTRO that on their mini map is a built in browser feature that answers any question, helps with any quest, and than hear "Can't you just tell me?"
Wow, I'm the most helpful guy you'll meet in an MMO, truly, as a guild leader I am constantly deleting toons to play alongside new members so they don't feel left out til they hit cap, but common, if your not willing to help others, or even yourself, even I'm gonna give up.
And I must say, I'm no PVP monster or anything, neither is my daughter, but we have ALWAYS held our own in PVP. Where is this class imbalance I hear of so often? I understand it's out there, but not to the extent you here about it. A good example, RIFT. I see so many people talking about the class imbalance, and yet my daughter and I can jump in a battleground and consistantly be in the top 3 damage dealers, killers, healers, etc. And it matters not what class we use. One of my guild members in RIFT was talking about this and to show him it was more about the player than the imbalance he seemed to see I grabbed a pure tank build, not dps, a pure tank. I finished first overall in damage and kills, he finished 3rd from the bottom with a dps warrior. Just one of many examples. I think a lot of time it's some player that thinks MMO's are for ownage and nothing more who jumps in a BG, gets smashed and starts crying foul. Instead of learning the class better, learning to move better, or learning to think, attack, defend smarter; they cry Nerf, OP.
Sorry for the long rant. It's just that some of these things have bothered me for years. I love this genre, truly. And I like a lot of others have hated to watch it all get eaiser, and easier. I understand that's what the core fans want, I do, and they can make huge sums of cash on those core players, but common, can a single developer understand some of us actually still prefer the journey? The experience?
Comments
I can see here that some people are too "Wowed" by WoW to see that it has any faults. That will never change. Some people just hating it for the SAKE of hating it....will also never change. The fact of the matter is, WoW, like every game, is imperfect. Enjoy it for what it is until you don't enjoy it anymore. Then....move on. It's really a pretty useless habit to spend time building it up like it's a god or tearing it down like it's a shit house. It's neither. It's simply a game. It's a game that had a part in writing gaming history, just like UO and EQ and EVE and many others. Right now it's the "800 lb. gorilla." That won't last forever. Nothing lasts forever. /shrug
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
When it takes 18 hours (if that) to do what used to take 4 or 5 days of played time and as soon as you hit max level you can pretty much be ready to raid in 5 hours is easy mode. Compared to what WoW used to be or what games like Vanguard are or what basically most games around the start of WoW were, its easy mode.
Well if you read my responce then you can see I wasn't talking about time it takes nor was I hating. The fact is the examples I gave can be done by anyone who wants to sit here and defend the game as not being easy. Killing a mob in 2-3 hits while taking next to no damage is 1 example I can give and anyone can go in there and see it deosn't change from begining to end. Things like that are why the game is too easy. I am neither a fanboi nor a hater but this topic can be discussed without the need to resort to claiming people are one or the other no?
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
I wouldn't say 'ez mode'.
The problem with WoW is Blizzard tried to make the game everything to everyone. They kept adding new features (not new as in never done before, just new to the game) and giving the playerbase more things to do. Problem is the players then started complaining how they couldn't do everything offered in their limited playtimes, so things were simplified. Convoluted systems were tweaked to be easier to understand, content that took a bit of planning and commitment had their restrictions eased up to allow even the most casual raiders a chance. Its not a bad thing really, but it did lead to the overall problem.
What really happened was with each patch, each expansion and each tweak, Blizzard lost its path with WoW. They kept trying to chamge the overall game (Is it an MMO? Is it a lobby game? Is it an E-Sport?) to the point that players got a bit overwhelmed and confused. So Blizzard tried to rein in the changes, make the systems (talents, gear stats, etc) easier to follow and learn, made leveling and the gear grind easier to manage and overall limited the amount of 'work' needed to accomplish tasks in the game. And somewhere in those changes and tweaks the game lost its soul.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
You are right, the first time playing through you probebly will die leveling from 1-85, although cata did water down the content so much if you are experianced in mmo's then its not hard NOT to die lvling up, money is easy to get especially if you pick up a gathering trade skill though quests provide more then enough to not really have to worry about it at all.
Outlands are a joke, the difficulty of mobs scales identical to the older content but gear is much much better compared to the old continent gear even the ones the same lvl. Not dieing there is easy as sin (yes talking non twimk) , unless you deside to try to solo the group quests, but then again.. thats a common sense issue.
Northend, difficulty is slightly below Outlands but the gear again.. is much much better. There are more then enough "easy"quests to outlvl the next zone before you get there. Its especially easy with an flying mount which is VERY easy to obtain unless you hump the AH.
Cataclyst zones.. dieing there is worth an achievement.
When I was leveling my lock from 80 to 85 (no heirlooms but some gear from the raid before ICC) and I was able to kill most mobs VERY easily using 3 or 4 skills (in the same rotation each time) sometimes before it even got to me. All my other skills were worthless in general combat and I didnt die unless I REALLY didnt pay attention and got a ton of mobs on me. The game is easy.
I want to point out though that I typed this then re read your post and noticed that I must be replying to something I thought I read. So I'll just ammend it to my "this game is too easy" comment.
Edit: Okay, I was replying to the guy you quoted. Makes sense now.
Looks like we are in agreement.
I dont think WoW is bad at all, but it is what it is. It IS one of the.. lighter mmo's out there.
Easy is a very subjective term, but a heavier MMO is easy.. Lineage2, Everquest Anarchy online. Anarchy online especially in the earlier days was so involved it actually required out of game planning and calculating JUST to get your "better"gear on.
Aoc is another great excample where you actually had to think what to press JUST to get your attacks off. I wouldnt go as far as calling it hard, just more involved, which to ,most people leads to being.. harder.
Unlike WoW in these games you actually did have to pay attention to the fight instead of mashing the 1 key blindly or what ever key you feel like pressing at the time.
The thing that really bores me in WoW is the fact that you can use the same exact 3-4 button combo to take down any PVE opponent even without looking at the screen, you could read while doing it. That makes it boring to me... Practically all the world PVE mobs are the same with different skins and the differences in them are so minor that they really don't change a thing...
I'd like to see opponents that you couldn't beat with that same rumble of button presses, but actually had to look at the screen and react to what's going on on it. This is why the PVP is still moderately challenging, since you can't just do the "same old, same old".
Basically the mob AI needs a transplant to make it intresting... I don't care if there is a death penalty or not, but I certainly did plan my actions quite more carefully in Darkfall than in WoW.
And the "same old, same old" button combo to kill everything combined with the monotoneous "kill x, go there" questing, it gets old quite fast. Where is the challenge???
Sadly pvp isnt all that different nowadays either. Seems the higher key requirement doesnt really come till arenas and instances.
But again "easy" really is subjective.
That said I do consider WoW a light mmo and very suiteble for someone new to Mmo's in general. Is it a mmo for noobs then? Nah thats more a matter of taste. Just think of cars. Some people love the red ferari and others want them in yellow.
To be honest, I always felt Everquest was pretty darn easy. You just ran over to some area and sat against a wall for three hours while the tank or designated puller brings mobs to you. Combat was slow-paced, so you could pretty much carry on a conversation with your guild and/or group mid-fight while munching on a bag of cheeto puffs. Try doing that while tanking and pulling in WoW.
Anything that was hard about the game had to do with timesinks or gear-gating. Back when I played EQ, most of the PoP content 55 and up was considered fairly difficult, but that's only because the mobs quad hit like mack trucks and required you have a certain level of gear to tank efficiently without giving your healer a brain aneurysm.
Except on EQ you had to build agro and it was very common for adds to just pat by , while on WoW , dead is dead and, mobs are placed in a fasion where you have a very limited amounth of mobs on pulls.
Where on EQ it took either and in some cases both a Feigh death puller to split mobs to a reasonable amounth of mobs to fight or to CC.
Only thing that may be easier was the slower combat pase. I dont any problems watching movies even the ones where Im forced to read sub tittles.
My responce wasn't an attack and I didn't think you were quoting me at all. But had you read my post it was the exact opposite of what you said which was why I used myself as an example. And no I am not talking out of my ass. When they streamlined the skilltrees for the preperation for cata it really did make classes rediculousely overpowered. Since I rolled war I'll use war as an example.
Having Bloodthirst at 10 was it? and victory rush at 5 made the class unbeleivably easy. Try it charge and victory rush then do another strike and a mob is done or pretty much so. Since you didn't read my post I'll say again. I rolled a war with my wife to experience the old zones changes and didn't wear any heirloom whatsoever. I also wasn't guilded so I didn't get the exp buff from that but that's beside the point. Yes mobs still got killed in 2-3 hits for the most part. I also stated that you lost almost no health during fights and this is another example of why I think WoW is cake. Not a false claim and anyone can do it because the game is easy.
I feel like I have to keep stating that I am not bashing the game. I am only stating my opinion on the topic. I played the game for years because my real friends are in the game and my wife loves it. The game has gotten watered down to the point that I can't enjoy going through any of it's content because I get bored. Just my 2 cents and not an attack in any way.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
I'd say the easiest answer is the response to the nature of "grind" in WoW. With each expansion release, it seems lvling and the overall " grind" is significantly reduced let alone if you compare the game at release in contrast to its current evolution, its significantly easier. That's expected of an mmo after its been in the market for a while but WoW never had either the same learning curve, "grind" or was demanding in player finesse than othe mmo's. We can name a litany of games WoW can be argued to be harder than but we can name a significant number more that it could be considered "easy~mode".
Frankly it doesn't make the game any more or less enjoyable despite the "easy~mode" title but when for ppl who consider themselves mmo veterans, the best thing I could say is WoW is a good game but it has reached the ceiling for being silly as far as the difficulty level goes. Again, some ppl like that some don't. It is what it is.
in reply to the post,
It seems you are not getting me people say ez mode its not that the game is easy it that it is allot different from vanilla/TBC In turn macking the game in to ez mode.
That's the problem , the only thing hard in WoW is raids and some instances.
Most instances but more importantly levelling is TOO EASY. That is why it is easy mode. It is no problem to NOT die while levelling even once. Which is totally ridiculous.
You can just go to mob in open world and spam any dps skill and you will kill it no problem. It is also way too fast.
Not everyone cares ONLY about raiding
Things that have changed since I started WoW which was toward the end of Vanilla.
Quest XP went way up (in BC).
Gear availability went way up (in BC).
Mounts at 20, was 40 and now much cheaper.
Epics at 40, was 60 and now much cheaper.
Flyers at 60, was 70 and now much cheaper.
Class specific quests for epics removed? (Paladin and Warlock)
Quest system provides much more information.
+heal and +dmg gear merged into +spellpower
Ammunition removed from hunters.
Pet leveling removed from hunter pets.
Pet loyalty development from hunter pets.
Cross server dungeon finder made running dungeons a fast alternative to questing.
Unified talent trees making it impossible to mess up a build.
Level progression became much faster in Cata.
Travel became much faster in Cata with all the new flight paths.
Dungeons reworked for shorter playtime but kept the same rewards.
Heirloom gear provides non-stop blue quality stats without instancing for gear.
Purchasable epics at the auction house became common.
None of these as individual changes made had much effect on their own, but together the change is that level progression is now significantly faster and easier than it was in Vanilla.
I see this as a refocus of design toward endgame centric gameplay. Blizzard reduced the time-sink barrier of entry to heroics and endgame raiding. I don't go so far as calling "EZ Mode" . Certainly heroics and raids are tough, just that the ease and speed of leveling changed to match the endgame centric gameplay.
edit: kant spel
Stop using macro and Addon, then kill the boss.
Than tell me if it easy mode.
Pardon my English as it is not my 1st language
Well, for me it was a lot of things. First, honestly I didn't find it hard in Vanilla. Was kinda put off on launch day by how easy it all was. (When I was able to login.) But than it just started changing, little things here and there. As it's popularity grew, it just kept getting easier. Leveling became WAY to easy and fast. Cutting the level and cost of mounts I thought was a huge mistake. Before you had to walk to 40, than hope you could afford it even than, now it's 20 and dirt cheap. I thought flying mounts were also a mistake, sure I dug them just like everyone else, but common, the Outlands was cake because of them. Fly to objective, land, slaughter target, fly away. No longer had to fight to the target. The community itself didn't help, how many 1000's of mods did we need to make an easy game easier. DBM to me ruined raiding. That and the general lack of patience and desire to figure anything out shown by most players. About to jump in a new Raid, one sec, let's check Youtube. Ok, got the strat, lets go. UGH. Than of course the Finders came along, crushed the community. World is empty now by comparrison because everyone is sitting around in a single city waiting for something to pop.
I recently got a free 7 days thing from Blizzard. Installed again for the first time in about a year. Log in my toon, fall through the world, endlessly. (Nice polish.) Grab my 80 alt, same thing. Make a new toon, contact a gm, toons returned. Than I spent 2 hours running around doing stupid easy quets, in a zone I never saw a single player in other than my daughter. And this is new content, some underwater area. Exit game, uninstall. Had my fun in WoW, it's done for me.
And honestly, I don't blame Blizzard, or Funcom, or Trion, or any of them. I blame the core player base. This is what they wanted, what they demanded. And they got it. I'm truly glad they are having fun, but that's just not for me.
It's always the same, watch a new games forum before and just after launch. Same questions again and again. "What's the best class?", "(Insert Class here) is OP!!!", "Nerf the (insert class here)", "What's the fastest way to level?" And on and on.
Everthing now has to be simple because the core doesn't want a challenge. Everything has to be instant gratification because they don't want to have to actually earn anything. Ever. I've run many guilds, and I have seen far to many "Run me through Deadmines", "Can someone powerlevel me?", "When do I get promoted?", "When do I get bank access?"
I can't honestly even guess how many times I've seen players in chat saying "Where is this quest?". When it's right in the quest text. I as politely as possible point this out to them and get "I don't want to read, where is it?" After telling the first 1000 or so players in LOTRO that on their mini map is a built in browser feature that answers any question, helps with any quest, and than hear "Can't you just tell me?"
Wow, I'm the most helpful guy you'll meet in an MMO, truly, as a guild leader I am constantly deleting toons to play alongside new members so they don't feel left out til they hit cap, but common, if your not willing to help others, or even yourself, even I'm gonna give up.
And I must say, I'm no PVP monster or anything, neither is my daughter, but we have ALWAYS held our own in PVP. Where is this class imbalance I hear of so often? I understand it's out there, but not to the extent you here about it. A good example, RIFT. I see so many people talking about the class imbalance, and yet my daughter and I can jump in a battleground and consistantly be in the top 3 damage dealers, killers, healers, etc. And it matters not what class we use. One of my guild members in RIFT was talking about this and to show him it was more about the player than the imbalance he seemed to see I grabbed a pure tank build, not dps, a pure tank. I finished first overall in damage and kills, he finished 3rd from the bottom with a dps warrior. Just one of many examples. I think a lot of time it's some player that thinks MMO's are for ownage and nothing more who jumps in a BG, gets smashed and starts crying foul. Instead of learning the class better, learning to move better, or learning to think, attack, defend smarter; they cry Nerf, OP.
Sorry for the long rant. It's just that some of these things have bothered me for years. I love this genre, truly. And I like a lot of others have hated to watch it all get eaiser, and easier. I understand that's what the core fans want, I do, and they can make huge sums of cash on those core players, but common, can a single developer understand some of us actually still prefer the journey? The experience?