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The Perfect NON-TWITCH BASED MMORPG Combat? (No FPS players allowed!)
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Member Posts: 351
edit: Changed title to make it clear, as many here didn't even read this short OP to know what this thread is about.
This is for a discussion of a better system (than what we currently have with EQ, WoW, etc.) but one that is NOT twitch based. NOT a fps game. This is for those who actually enjoy the combat of the majority of MMORPG's, and do not desire their RPG's to turn into FPS games.
It's a nice idea to think about, given a lot of forum member's obsession with FPS style, twitch based combat. Image the typical actions are in the combat: ranged combat, melee combat, shield blocking, dodges, mobility, etc. 2D, 2.5D, or 3D. Who cares? We're talking about combat mechanics.
It doesn't necessarily have to be real-time-turn-based like Everquest or WoW, (or it CAN be like that). It's just that the ideas I want us to discuss is combat which isn't designed for ADHD FPS fanboys who want to turn RPG into FPS and who believe mouse-aiming somehow equates to > skill than strategy, group tactics, player builds, progression, etc. However, if your ideas entail a slow form of combat that is more tactical in nature, or perhaps entirely turn based-- all ideas are welcome. Just stay away from the forum obsession of "MMORPG's should be like CounterStrike!". Some of us actually enjoy havinig advantages/disadvantages and winning, because we either developed that character (which is a form of skill itself in some instances) or we beat someone better than us by pure skill.
What do you believe is the "perfect" or at least innovative MMORPG combat system- that is NOT a twitch based FPS shooter style of combat?
Comments
All those details are important though. We don't know if this game is an mmo or an offline game, whether it's an rpg or actually some other type of game, whether it's 2d or 3d...
Now, assuming that the game is online, as this site is about MMOs in general, my suggestion for a system of combat is something that really has nothing to do with these issues, as it is more about how a group of people work together. First, let me say that this idea really means that a single player would be very limited in ability, as cooperation in such combat would increase combat potential more than just the addition of the combat potential of 2 people.
I personally believe that skill and tactices should be a great part of what happens in combat.
My suggestion is as follows...
First, depending on the setting, a player would spend most of his or her time onboard a vehicle, such as a space ship or just a normal seafaring ship or a tank or some kind of giant animal or a giant walking contraption (AT-AT anyone?) or even just an army (in which case, the unit would be more like the camp of the army acting as a base and res spot). These would vary in size depending on the number of people you have working together.
each player would play a different part in combat, be it movement of the unit, firing weapons, repairing damage, gathering resources, scouting out areas, setting up active defenses, and general tactical decision making.
players wouldn't be stuck in defined classes, but would spec for the job they are given for the unit to be able to fight.
combat would be much slower paced than the typical MMORPG, as the whole group must survive or meet its doom together.
Upgrades would be key to becoming more powerful, and pooling the levels of all the players to upgrade the unit would be the job of the leader (sort of like the leader of a guild or just a party). If somebody leaves, the level pool gets smaller, which means smaller vehicle unit (or just less upgraded).
actual combat would be different depending on assigned roles. A leader would have a birds eye view and would be able to call targets with the view of everything around him. Somebody manying different weapon stations would have a more personal view of the actions they are taking. Scouts would increase the amount of info about the surrounding area that the leader sees while hunting enemy scouts and could set up beacons of different kinds to indicate targets or dangers. people set to defend the unit would be engaged in preventing others from raiding their unit (think legolas in the lord of the rings taking down the oliphant in the lotr movies).
Now, the way you control characters would greatly depend on whether the game is 3d or 2.5d or whatever, but I think most people are use to 3d like what WoW does. you would have a select number of skills to work with, and these would depend on your faction + your role. your player level effects the vehicle you are a part of, not you directly. Targeting would be the standard tab targeting and movement would be WASD. players working with parts of the vehicle would have a different interface specific to the role, like cross-hairs for mounted guns or turrets or firebreathing or whatever is apporpriate to the setting.
units with less players would naturally not have as many roles, and somethings would be automated or people could hire NPC mercinaries to fill the roles (AI being less capable than real people, this would serve to allow players to play on their own, mostly). This would likely result in a reduction of gains in money or XP or something to encorage group play (idea drawn from GW1 henchmen).
PvE would be set up with senarios for groups to play instead of quests (scenarios would be like a story quest or something where there is a goal at the end that must be achieved and can be failed.)
PvP would be a lot like arena matches in other MMOs, but could happen anywhere, or it could be like RvR, with different factions defending and attacking one another.
players who really wish to play alone would be able to do things like crafting parts for other players, so that they can build different units.
hope my suggestions give others some ideas about what they like or dislike about combat in RPGs, as this suggestion is really just an alternative to what I veiw as an overly heavy focus on you as a single player.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
I don't know if this is the "Perfect" MMORPG Combat, but it certainly is my favorite:
Real-time aiming and click-to-hit.
Think of an FPS but with a sword.
Games like Dragon Nest and Vindictus are doing this as well as Tera Online.
The perks:
No "Exchanging hits". You can minimize your damage by avoiding the enemy's attacks.
It's simply more fun! It's MUCH better than double clicking an enemy and watching your character hit it over and over again.
It makes you feel like you're actually accomplishing something and severely reduces the "grinding" feel.
I really like the more action based combat of games like Vindictus and Dungeon Fighter Online. They're certainly not FPS, but you're by no means exchanging hits with people. There are however, systems in place to help with targetting despite there being no tabbing. When I swing my weapon in Vindictus for instance, I can press in a direction and have my character move in that direction no matter what's around me, but if I dont and just start swinging, it will start aiming the swings in the general direction of something near me. I love that, it's a nice compromise in my opinion. I like being able to roll around, having to think on your feet, having to time combos and skills. Going back to a typical tab-target game after playing Vindictus feels like going in slow motion.
There's one big exception, and that's turn-based strategy. I've yet to see an MMO version of combat systems in games like Final Fantasy Tactics or Tactics Ogre. I'm not 100% sure on how that would workout, but I think it would be fun to try. Dofus did something similar, but too much of the game was locked off without a sub so I never played deeply enough to know if it was everything I'd want.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
My all time favorite combat system is in Age of Conan. Waiting to see Tera.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can
be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
-Robert E. Howard
I would agree that the perfect combat mechanics are not twitched based. Twitched based combat relies on a players reactionary skills. And many people have a different level of that. The best combat mechanics is combat that is designed to allow the player to adapt within combat while still using the current targeting system. In order for a player to adapt, they must have access to a diverse selection of abilities. Combat mechanics must not be gear dependent on proc modifiers or stat dice rolls. Simply, the best combat mechanics would allow the player to use their mind to out think the AI in some cases to change strategy. Become a tactician, know your class, know the combat mechanics that complement the class and you will have good combat mechanics.
I have played Meridian59, UO, EQ, FFXI, CoH, WoW, Vanguard, AoC, Warhammer, EQ2, Aion, Rift, Lineage 2, CO, GW, and many other MMORPG which their name escapes me at the moment.
For an MMORPG.. for an MMORPG.. not for a game that's not an MMORPG... my favorite combat was EverQuest bar none.
Then comes...
CoH and Vanguard...
Everything else was of the same level.
Twitchy combat does not mean fun. Twitchy combat does not mean tactical. Slow combat actually is more strategic and tactical. But the benefit of slow combat is the ability to communicate with group members and friends while not damaging your wrist at the same time. I've written articles about why twitchy combat is trivial.. to summerize it... all what you do in "twitchy" combat is nothing special... everyone else of the same class is doing the same exact thing. So, in the end your DPS is actually fixed for your specific gear-level because you're not going to hack the game.. you're pressing buttons. Which means all what they did is give you the illusion of doing something when actually all what you do can be summerized with way fewer attacks.
Take Rift combat system for instance.. too many damaging skills and a lot of them really act the same. For what reason other than make you smash buttons and fool you that you're doing something. The problem is, current MMORPG designers have no point of view of what an MMORPG is. All what they know is WoW and everything that plays like it. Little do they know that MMORPGs are about communicating with others. If you keep the player busy with smash-button-mind-numbing-stupid-combat then you only destroy three things; the players wrists, the player's mouse and the community.
There's no benefit of smash, smash, smash, smash and all these reactive buttons (on dodge, on parry). If these were automated it will save us a lot of trouble and then we can deal with the combat in a tactica and strategic way instead of a "who can press these buttons faster". The battle will change from Fap-Fap-Fap to something like "I need to save my mana because I think this battle will last long" or "let's position this minotaur this way, so he won't riposte our attacks". Otherwise you'd be thinking "I don't want to miss the On-Parry big damage button because I only have 2 seconds to press it otherwise I will lose DPS".... which one is more fun? I know which one I would choose.... EverQuest's.
The perfect MMORPG combat would be a system which relied on your raw skill alone to determine the outcome of any PvP fight, period, whether it be one on one, or five vs. one.
It is simply amazing how few people actually read the OP. Thank you to those who did, and are on-topic.
Everyone else seems to response "I want FPS style twitch based combat!" to the question, "What is the perfect MMORPG combat that is NOT twitch based or FPS style?"
I honestly don't know what part of NOT twitch-based, NOT FPS style, RPG type of combat people here do not understand. RPG's are about building characters, items, abilities, character customization, and turn-based combat (albeit in real time).
This is NOT a place to discuss FPS style combat and why you like it. It is NOT the thread asking you "Do you prefer twitch based combat closer to an FPS or turn based closer to a RPG?"
This thread is about discussion MMORPG COMBAT THAT IS NOT TWITCH BASED!!!
LEARN 2 READ!!!!!!
Thank you to everyone else though, who responded actually having read the OP.
Nearly every MMORPG already does this.
I'm sorry, but even in greens, I can still beat twinks in WoW (a very gear-centric game). With a blue weapon and some greens, I can mostly whipe the floor with twinks in WoW unless they are an overpowered class.
If you want player skill to determine who wins in PvP, all you need is a "balanced enough" class system (or at least something to counter overpowered classes), adequate (not pathetic) gear which doesn't even have to come close to the best, and a fair enough fight via population (Definitely won't win a 10v1, but even a 2v1 or 3v1 can be fair enough.)
Really, unless the twinks are very bad (and I'm not very well geared), there aren't an overwhelming number of enemies (i'm not alone fighting the entire enemy side), or my level isn't ridiculously low (rarely happens) I whipe the floor in PvP solely because of skill.
So to wish for a system that relies totally on "raw skill alone" (Whatever that is...as it is entirely one's own opinion and perspective as to what qualifies as skill) assuming you mean reflexes, mouse clicks, and game/character/class knowledge, is just silly, because every game is already like that.
It is very very rare that I have gear so inferior to even the best that I can't beat them. Usually even when I'm badly geared, it's still good enough to compete. And although it depends on the game (I was a lot better with a death robe + GM halberd in UO than in whites/greens in WoW) it still doesn't make too much of a difference.
Doesn't really matter the genre either. I am always in the top of any FPS game I play after only a few hours of playing it. Likewise, I am almost always in the top of any MMORPG I play, especially if I spend a few hours leveling or to browse the auction house for mediocre gear.
Why do I mention this? Not to brag, but to say that I am living evidence that MMORPG's require just as much "raw player skill" as any other game does-- especially level bracket based battlground games. I sincerely believe that players who whine that gear != skill are merely upset that someone more skilled beat them, so they blame their lack of skill on "gear being so important".
Yes, some games have a ridiculous tilt in the balance scale of some classes, who when twinked and behind an adequate player, become extremely difficult even for a skilled player-- but really if you're good enough, even if you lose 4/5 of the battles, the fact you can destroy that twink 1 of those times because you're a better player just goes to show that even in the worst of circumstances "Raw player skill" is still king. No matter what, really.
Math geeks love non-twitch based combat. All the math in the world can't overcome that annoying Gnome that seems to be behind that pillar whenever you try to attack.
I do like the concept of Wizard101, or Toontown of all titles. It could be expanded, set in an IP people recognize (Like Harry Potter), with added depth to appeal to a more mature mind.
I enjoy firing up Magic: The Gathering and playing some head to head with premade decks. Applying that to a mobile avatar with on the spot arena's is a sweet concept imo.
"I swear -- by my life and my love for it -- that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine."
- John Galt
I think youre kind of missing the point of "raw skill alone". Generally when people refer to that, theyre referring to the skill of the player alone, not the skill of their character. Having knowledge of all your skills in a normal MMO such as WoW is fine, but using them = your characters skill, not your own personal skill. Whereas in other types of game slike twitch and FPS games, its more of a matter of the players own capabilities to aim accurately, control their fire (not stand there spraying a full clip like a noob expecting to pick someone off at a distance, using short controlled burts to reduce the effects of recoil, etc), their ability to react quickly to enemies closing in and knowing the quickest ways in and out of tight areas to outmanuever & outsmart their enemies, and various other things.
A few of those can apply to some MMOs, but typically its a case where you can have all the knowledge in the world about your character and its skills, but you can still only achieve what your elimited to by your characters own stats, gear, etc. No matte rhow good of a player you are, youre still confined to certain limits because of those things. Hence character skill vs player skill.
There are some games that do a very good mix of both though, where youve got a combination of character skill that can be enhanced or hindered greatly by player skill. Typically those are the more action oriented games though, or games which require more complex combat then press 1 button and watch your character kill something (games with complex combos, movement effects, etc).
Just throwing this out there, but I like Mount & blade warband aim your swing style. Also I loved Guild wars style too. The simple skill bar with lots of choices to mix up your skills was awesome. So I think if a game could combine both of those, that would be the best hands down imo.
I think your problem is that there is no such thing if your elooking for a new system. The typical EQ/WoW system (which are based on mechanics from game slike D7D, which were create dlong before MMORPGs existed) is pretty much the best there is WITHOUT adding in elements of twitch and FPS style combat.
To put it pretty simply, you want people to come up with a better dice roll than the dice roll (which is all non-twitch based games are). You can rename it whatever you want, but in the end it will still work the same way as a dice roll. Your egoing to have certain number ranges which cause certain effects when compared vs other numebr ranges and have chances to roll each number, etc.... dice rolls.
The only really effective way to have a combat system without some form of dice roll, is to bring in.... you guessed it! twitch mechanics, which rely on actual player skill such as aim rather than a dice roll that determines how good your "aim" is.
VERY interesting...
Could you elaborate on your idea of adding the style of in MTG premade decks to MMORPG gameplay?
I find this extremely interesting because of how MTG, at least in my opinion, has an excellent gameplay/combat system.
I see. Perhaps I did not entirely understand, so thanks.
Still, I have never really played a game that doesn't require Player Skill to be the separator between good and bad players.
Perhaps I just don't understand, because I can snipe a tiny moving dot with a realistic sniper rifle where the enemy has to walk into my bullet, in FPS games like Red Orchestra-- or top the damage, healing, or objective charts in any MMORPG.
Either way, it's all because of my player skill. The fact I'm using a "character's skill" or a characters gun is pretty irrelevant.
So unless you are talking about Virtual Reality, where we literally have to handle the gun ourselves-- there is little point in this discussion. The whine and desire for a game that uses "Raw Player Skill" is inherently flawed solely for the fact we don't have any Virtual Reality games played by the majority of gamers.
If you really want to try to convince me that using my Hunter's Serpent Sting ability in WoW is any different than using my Sniper's scope and rifle in Red Orchestra or my soldier's M4 rifle or Deagle pistols in Call of Duty-- you're going to have a very hard time, because neither is actually me. It's just me playing a character, who has an ability.
Whether that ability is Bazooka via Left-Click, Rifle or Machine Gun via holding Left Click, or an ability I press "4" to activate which shoots a bazooka-like fireball, it really is irrelevant. I usually end up topping the charts either way, so trying to convince me they are different in relation to "Raw Player Skill" is just silly.
No such thing as a new system for a EQ/WoW type System? Because EQ/WoW are the best there can be?
No offense intended, but your imagination and creativity perspective is very, very unambitious.
"This Motorized Vehicle which travels with the power of 10 horses at a max speed of 44 miles per hour is the best there can be. We should just stop now, because unless it's a new Rocket Ship which flies, we won't invent anything better."
Yea........ No.
There are nearly an infinite ways to improve or innovative the EQ/WoW model, change it entirely, or create a combat system completely different than EQ/WoW which doesn't require twitching your wrists.
IMO something like what WoW allready has but add a stamina bar. Once you trigger auto attack running and jumping deplete the stamina bar as well as using special attacks, the whole using the mouse to basically run a figure 8 while bunny hopping is the most rediculas thing to happen to MMoRPGs, IMO.
Godz of War I call Thee
There are several interesting non twitched based systems.
First of all is the basics behind a non twitched based combat system a hidden semi turned based system.
A "turn" is how long it takes between 2 auto attacks in most MMOs. It is the thing that allows 2 users of different ping and different reactions to still be on equal footings. This time can be fast or slow.
If done rightly can this give the game a lot more focus on strategy and wits than just fast hand to hand co-ordination as FPS games have.
If I would make a MMORPG I would personally have a dynamic hotbar. That means that the attacks you can make will change itself for the situation.
That means that you will have, say 8 options at the same time, that depends on what you, your opponent/opponents and allies did last round, and also on outer circomstances.
The advantage of a system like that is that you can make it rather realistic and base it on real combat manuevers instead of the usual ones done by someone who don't know the difference between a Falchion and a saber.
I want a combat system that is as tactical as possible. Parrying is fine, because anyone who fenced knows that that opens up for several attacks next round.
My real problem with current MMO systems is that what you did last time rarely matters (unlike in real life) and what you opponent does and just did have no impact at all. It is all about cooldowns and energy, and real combat is not about that.
If MMO combat would be more fun than real combat that might be an excuse, but it isn't. There is a lot more strategy in real combat than in MMO combat and strategy and thinking is fun. I believe that you cqan increase both the fun and the realism of MMO combat. I also believe that anyone using a macro to hit his fastkeys in certain order should loose every fight because it is really boring to do exactly the same thingover and over.
Combat should be like a chess game where you and your opponents try eachother out and then you go for the weak spot and win. Not pressing the same friggin buttons in the same order every combat.
I don't agree with you. Ever played the pen and paper RPG Amber? It have no dices, no cards, nothing like that. Still combat is interesting and strategic in it.
There are many more possibilities. HEck, you could use the combo system of beat tthem ups like Tekken as well (yeah, it is semi twitched based).
For one thing can you make a pretty advanced combat system based on the basic of Rock - Scissors - paper. That require no dice rolls whatsoever. Say that you have 12 different attacks, 4 bets 4 others and loses on the final 4. Same means no hit. That is of course simplifying it to the max but it works.
I'm in the camp of no-twitch gamers. I just don't like the general twitch/action/FPS/arcade type of combat. I'm probably very bad with these games too, small wonder, I hardly ever play them. I always feel this type of combat is focused on 1vs1 encounters, and I much more enjoy combat that is focused on team work, with different roles in a team, no matter whether it's PvE or PvP.
Therefore I prefer the non-twitch RPG combat. I believe I've played far less games than many on these boards here but - from the ones I played - I liked the DAoC-style and the NWN1/2 (D&D 3.0 and 3.5) most.
What I want in RPG combat:
- Teamwork: I want to combat in a team, where different roles and different responsibilities of team members during combat have a large influence on the outcome. A well made and well coordinated team should win the day.
- Management of resources: I do not like the "general cool down"-type of RPG combat, I'd rather much more players have to manage their resources, be it stamina, mana, situational buffs and de-buffs, healing, crowd-control or whatever the actual game uses as resource during combat. I do not mind long regen times, actually I prefer them, regen is as well a social as a tactical element.
- I like the situational styles from DAoC, i.e. styles that only work in narrow combat situations, for example a style that can be used after a block or a dodge, or styles that depend on location, i.e. attacking from the back, flanking, etc. I liked the combat chains from DAoC very much, another tactical element that was.
- I like it when players need to think before engaging in combat. Take the wizzards from D&D: preparing spells that might be needed. That D&D wizzard is extremely powerful when the right preparation is done, the right spells are prepared - and the same wizzard is next to useless when he has prepared the wrong spells, used them in the wrong situation or fired his arsenal of spells too soon. Great tactical play that way.
- I like it when a game features many support roles during combat: healers, bards, minstrels, buffers, de-buffers, crowd-control, rogues, you name it.
It seems this type of combat is getting ever less popular however. Modern games try to provide a never-ending chain of fast entertainment but for me the entertainment is as much in the preparation as it is in the actual combat.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Yes! This guy gets it! I made a post about this some time ago. The problem is when referring to skill in video games, people are (mostly) referring to reaction times and speed. I'm getting on in years and despite a lifetime of gaming I can no longer 'out-react' some kid who can play flight of the bumblebee with one hand while scafing hot pockets with the other.
I'll give you an example of what I'd like to see. In Starcraft (the original, have not played the sequel), there is a very competitive ladder for some real life cash competitions. I've watched quite a few of them. The problem for me is, they all play the game at maximum speed. This makes it more a game of reaction than action. I want to play at the slowest possible speed, and yet I've never found even one player who will agree to play me in this fashion. I want the game to take hours, not minutes. I can remember playing weekend long Risk or Axis and Allies games. Yes, the game took an entire weekend to finish, and it was epic.
I want to see a game where smart play and tactics will always crush twitch speed. I love the game of bridge, no amount of playing faster will help you there. That's what I want to see in at least some of my video games.
You cannot perfect combat anymore. The only thing you can do is making teamwork better. ATM most MMOs are crap solo plays due to no effort required to kill insert X boss here.
If it actually required a tanker spamming taunt to an immune to melee boss while a doter have to dot the boss in order to make magical spells hiting the boss it would be more interesting.
Once upon a time, every class had a different role. For example arcane users did mediocre damage but had strong buffs and kept the mana going up on healers. Nowadays most MMOs kinda fails because theres just healers, dpsers and tankers. Why do everyone have to copy the combat system from WoW now?
Actually the class roles where still alive back in WOTLK. For example hunters had to kite mobs. But nowadays its just solofriendly mmos with healers, dpsers and tankers. Every MMO i tried out from 2010 had soloable elites.
All i want is teamwork to be alive again, which it actually is in FPSes. Sniper over there, bomb detonator over here, medic hiding behind a bunker, follow the leader. Sure, its the same for raids but in FPSes, you level while PvPing, so it overshines nowadays typical MMOs. Its called MMO cause you group up, i really hate to be able to solo up to level 60.
Guild Wars comes in mind. You could actually costumize your class. Guild needs a dpser? Pick DPS skills. They need a buffer? Take buff skills. They need a drainer? Pick draining skills. Maybe its the only way to make combat interesting once again. Cause i know that if you actually give a class a role, it will be contents where they will become useless once again, the "highest dpser" shines again.
Just saying, the combat system is perfect but the grouping system is boring.
Dont take me wrong, i love MMOs. The reason i play MMOs is because of teamworks and guilds. The only thing i dont like is the boring DPS-TANK-HEAL-CC roles and the soloable content. TBH every MMO should have unsoloable group quests at the last ten levels, just go join a leveling guild and go do it.
Its so sad that i can just farm up to the last level.
I so want to play GW2, the promised world PvP etc and multiple races= me wants! LETS just hope they keep the same interesting system as in GW1. I really loved changing my skills for different roles and success. And i do love the unsoloable content in GW1 where henchmen got one shoted and you had to bring guildies.
I loved GW1 cause of the different roles i could have as DPS, i loved the unsoloable content before heroes/55 builds came out, i loved that the gear wasnt that important, that you could have the best gear but the skills mathers, but if you wanted to look cool, you must get the hardest mats from the hardest dungeons.
The only things i hated must be the dead Battlegrounds(not to be confused with arenas), no jumps, instanced world and only human as race.
GW2 will have world pvp, jumps and races atleast. Hope they wont ruin the skill and gear system, OP henchmen and heroes, if they dont, GW2 would be the best game ever for me atleast.
Yawn
Following your Starcraft example:
I used to be a killer in that game. There were tons of players who could play really fast. However not all of them did great. When both players think and react at the same speed, the one who thinks better is usually the winning one. Even in fast twitch games, speed is not everything.
MMOs have, in general, very slow combat when compared to many other games, and, let's be honest, most of the times the guy with better gear wins, unless the better geared guy is very clumsy or the worse geared one is brilliant (I am talking PVP here). I am sorry to say your perfect non-twitch-combat game is not an MMO.
If you really are into tactics and such, and you like taking your time to think a proper strategy, you may want to switch to turn-based games. Let me suggest you try vga-planets. The game is OLD, but awesome. And a game can easily take well over a year.
My favorite non-twitch style engine is a pure turn based engine. Slient Storm (a single player game) had it right.
There is a lot of be said for turned based approach where you can really think about your actions clearly and study their results.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me