I like games from both Bethesda and Bioware. In the case of Bethesda I first would wait to see if they could make their client stable enough before I purchase it
4. Between the two, Bethesda in "my opinion" would have done this title justice, first go especially if EA fronted the bill.
It entirely depends on what your preference is.
If you hate/dislike themepark MMO gameplay and favor sandbox MMO, then Bethesda is what you're looking for.
If you can enjoy themepark MMO's as well, then Bioware is definitely the one that does the title more justice.
After all, they have shown to be quite good with the scifi and Star Wars concept and atmosphere.
Not sure really, havent played any themepark mmos from bioware yet so unlike you I cant say they are good at it..for some reason(you can has magic I guess o0). Really though, do we need another themepark? Almost all of the themepark games have failed when they tried to follow to close to wow with the exception of a handfull.
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
I would bet that the story driven quest will in the end really just be a bar that goes back and forth and will effect light or dark side. just like a faction rep grind. If it isnt like that now... give it time bet it turns into that. The everyone will be doing what they did in wow (fast text) or aoc with its voiced quests and just skip to the end to see what they get.
Sorry, but you've already lost that bet, there have been quite a few examples already regarding quests where different decisions led to different outcomes, also to different follow up quests.
Also, you just skipped past the point that most people - maybe only not you or ppl like you - favor the story immersive questing that SWTOR will have above the current traditional textbased questing.
If that's not your thing, then I'd advise you to stay away from the upcoming MMO's SWTOR, GW2 and TSW, because they will all have that kind of story immersive questing and you'll hate them for it. If those MMO's will be successful, then it'll even become more a trend to do quests that way than it already is with 3 AAA MMO's implementing it into their gameplay
Originally posted by Bruise187
Not sure really, havent played any themepark mmos from bioware yet so unlike you I cant say they are good at it..for some reason(you can has magic I guess o0). Really though, do we need another themepark? Almost all of the themepark games have failed when they tried to follow to close to wow with the exception of a handfull.
Well, it was directed towards the OP who just automatically assumed that Bethesda would be better with even less ground to say it. At least there has been a huge pile of impressions and reports from people who've actually spent hours in SWTOR.
As for themepark MMO's, maybe you're in the wrong sections if you dislike/abhor themepark MMO's that much? Look elsewhere if you don't like new MMO's being themepark MMO's, there are quite a few upcoming ones that aren't, so if you keep looking up themepark MMO's while those non-themepark or different type of MMO's are around, well... it would be a bit odd.
As for failing, if those themepark MMO's have 'failed' then sandbox MMO's have been a complete disaster, as well as most early MMO's since most of those didn't make the money or had the subs that those 'failed' themepark MMO's have had.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I would bet that the story driven quest will in the end really just be a bar that goes back and forth and will effect light or dark side. just like a faction rep grind. If it isnt like that now... give it time bet it turns into that. The everyone will be doing what they did in wow (fast text) or aoc with its voiced quests and just skip to the end to see what they get.
Sorry, but you've already lost that bet, there have been quite a few examples already regarding quests where different decisions led to different outcomes, also to different follow up quests.
Also, you just skipped past the point that most people - maybe only not you or ppl like you - favor the story immersive questing that SWTOR will have above the current traditional textbased questing.
If that's not your thing, then I'd advise you to stay away from the upcoming MMO's SWTOR, GW2 and TSW, because they will all have that kind of story immersive questing and you'll hate them for it. If those MMO's will be successful, then it'll even become more a trend to do quests that way than it already is with 3 AAA MMO's implementing it into their gameplay
It might not be in right now and maybe not ever. Just saying i bet they will go to a faction bar just like other games Thats why i said if it isnt in now I BET they will. just saying they will turn into a rep grind where people will be pushing whatever to grind that darkside or lightside rep. Plus itsa good thing I dont come here for advise from tall the pro forum trolls with thousands of posts. When do you guys find time to game?
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
I would bet that the story driven quest will in the end really just be a bar that goes back and forth and will effect light or dark side. just like a faction rep grind. If it isnt like that now... give it time bet it turns into that. The everyone will be doing what they did in wow (fast text) or aoc with its voiced quests and just skip to the end to see what they get.
Sorry, but you've already lost that bet, there have been quite a few examples already regarding quests where different decisions led to different outcomes, also to different follow up quests.
Also, you just skipped past the point that most people - maybe only not you or ppl like you - favor the story immersive questing that SWTOR will have above the current traditional textbased questing.
If that's not your thing, then I'd advise you to stay away from the upcoming MMO's SWTOR, GW2 and TSW, because they will all have that kind of story immersive questing and you'll hate them for it. If those MMO's will be successful, then it'll even become more a trend to do quests that way than it already is with 3 AAA MMO's implementing it into their gameplay
after a few weeks there will probably be 'trainers' that tell you what options to choose for which outcomes/rewards, and skipping through conversations is a good point.. it will happen.. most people skip through text conversations, so i have no doubt voice ones will be treated the same way.. just really to progress to the good bits.. not everyone wants to sit and watch an episode of neighbours on their computer after all .. players generally arent that bothered about story.. its the game play and the rewards that count... and thats how the game will be graded.. on how good these things are. very few players have the patience or the interest to investigate a games lore etc.. mostly.. their too busy playing, and things like that can be considered interruptions.
Bethseda cant do a large scale game like swtor , they are too small of a developer. So instead they do average size open world game with one storyline.
Bethseda cant do a large scale game like swtor , they are too small of a developer. So instead they do average size open world game with one storyline.
Makes me wonder. I seem to have always thought they were about the same size company. Which is bigger? Im pretty sure the size of the company wouldnt matter to the game or player. gameplay maters.....Sounds like something my wife always tries to make me feel better bout...o0.
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
This isn't simply because of sandbox vs theme park. I happen to like either style. The reasons I believe Bethesda could have done this title justice are as follows:
1. The game would be more gritty, realistic and finally live up to the potential that I honestly believe most Star Wars fans are looking for (less bubble gum). It doesn't have to be "mature" content, just more mature.
2. The graphics would have been superior. More realistic and less cartoony.
3. Highly adventurous. It would of course include story and LOTS of content but the level of exploration, adventure and surprise would be amazing.
4. Space combat would NOT have been an after thought. Regardless if they have experience in this area, they would make it an engaging and adventurous experience.
5. With EA fronting the bill, they would create an experience greater than anything we've seen in RPGs and change the standard of mmorpg development.
Bioware make excellent RPGs, this is without question. Bethesda's skill at RPG development are also exceptional. They are the two best developers for RPGs. For an mmo though and for Tor, I believe Bethesda wins as far as creating a world that most gamers would be happy with and an experience that would provide longevity and reply value.
If CapCom did TOR that would have been ideal. I mean Star Wars is all about conflict, and who knows conflict better than the purveyors of the ever famous Street Fighter series?
If CapCom did TOR that would have been ideal. I mean Star Wars is all about conflict, and who knows conflict better than the purveyors of the ever famous Street Fighter series?
Just sayin'.
Well, no. They are an "arcade" company. They don't know the first thing about RPG game development.
not everyone wants to sit and watch an episode of neighbours on their computer after all .. players generally arent that bothered about story.. its the game play and the rewards that count... and thats how the game will be graded.. on how good these things are. very few players have the patience or the interest to investigate a games lore etc.. mostly.. their too busy playing, and things like that can be considered interruptions.
I think you're wrong.
Not everyone treats questing as a bothersome has-to-be-done task list that needs to be done on a fast track to level cap where they expect the actual game to begin. Personally I find that way of playing an MMO boring as hell, but kudos to you if you can get a kick of playing MMO's and leveling like that . For quite a number of people the journey is as important as the destination.
I've always found questing in singleplayer games more immersive than in MMO's, so I can only applaud the MMO makers who're trying to implement that level of quest immersion in MMO's as well. Apparently according to the gameplay impressions from SWTOR players the majority of them seem to share that viewpoint, SWTOR way of questing being more enjoyable and fun to them than the current traditional way of questing.
But hey, for people like you, there's always the option to just skip as much as possible and just blindly pick choices, it'll almost be just as you're familiar with in current MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
not everyone wants to sit and watch an episode of neighbours on their computer after all .. players generally arent that bothered about story.. its the game play and the rewards that count... and thats how the game will be graded.. on how good these things are. very few players have the patience or the interest to investigate a games lore etc.. mostly.. their too busy playing, and things like that can be considered interruptions.
I think you're wrong.
Not everyone treats questing as a bothersome has-to-be-done task list that needs to be done on a fast track to level cap where they expect the actual game to begin. Personally I find that way of playing an MMO boring as hell, but kudos to you if you can get a kick of playing MMO's and leveling like that . For quite a number of people the journey is as important as the destination.
I've always found questing in singleplayer games more immersive than in MMO's, so I can only applaud the MMO makers who're trying to implement that level of quest immersion in MMO's as well. Apparently according to the gameplay impressions from SWTOR players the majority of them seem to share that viewpoint, SWTOR way of questing being more enjoyable and fun to them than the current traditional way of questing.
But hey, for people like you, there's always the option to just skip as much as possible and just blindly pick choices, it'll almost be just as you're familiar with in current MMO's
I also agree. I like this aspect of Tor's game design a lot but at the end of the day, so far what they have given us isn't enough for such a big title and genre.
not everyone wants to sit and watch an episode of neighbours on their computer after all .. players generally arent that bothered about story.. its the game play and the rewards that count... and thats how the game will be graded.. on how good these things are. very few players have the patience or the interest to investigate a games lore etc.. mostly.. their too busy playing, and things like that can be considered interruptions.
I think you're wrong.
Not everyone treats questing as a bothersome has-to-be-done task list that needs to be done on a fast track to level cap where they expect the actual game to begin. Personally I find that way of playing an MMO boring as hell, but kudos to you if you can get a kick of playing MMO's and leveling like that . For quite a number of people the journey is as important as the destination.
I've always found questing in singleplayer games more immersive than in MMO's, so I can only applaud the MMO makers who're trying to implement that level of quest immersion in MMO's as well. Apparently according to the gameplay impressions from SWTOR players the majority of them seem to share that viewpoint, SWTOR way of questing being more enjoyable and fun to them than the current traditional way of questing.
But hey, for people like you, there's always the option to just skip as much as possible and just blindly pick choices, it'll almost be just as you're familiar with in current MMO's
Thats all good if you plan on have one toon, but most of todays gamers want multiple toons. So while you might read all the text the first time like its the bible. The next zillion (few) times I bet you or others will want to be able to skip it and get onto something else. I would
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
2. The graphics would have been superior. More realistic and less cartoony.
Have you seen the graphics of ME and ME2? That's as realistic as you can get. However, there's a reason that BW didn't opt for that, and that's because of the limitations it brings. If a company as Bethesda would have gone that way, then be prepared to have a lot smaller worlds and areas than SWTOR or a lot more lag, you only have to see AoC for that.
4. Space combat would NOT have been an after thought. Regardless if they have experience in this area, they would make it an engaging and adventurous experience.
Now you're starting to daydream
5. With EA fronting the bill, they would create an experience greater than anything we've seen in RPGs and change the standard of mmorpg development.
This argument makes no sense at all, EA is financing now as well. They wouldn't spend a hundred million dollars in unproven concepts, so it'd naturally have steered more towards themepark design.
Bioware make excellent RPGs, this is without question. Bethesda's skill at RPG development are also exceptional. They are the two best developers for RPGs. For an mmo though and for Tor, I believe Bethesda wins as far as creating a world that most gamers would be happy with and an experience that would provide longevity and reply value.
I don't know, it sounds a lot like wishful thinking or daydreaming, it's easy to think such things before hard realities kick in, like limitation in available technology, budget or resources. But, it's ok to daydream of course.
Originally posted by yodablaze
I also agree. I like this aspect of Tor's game design a lot but at the end of the day, so far what they have given us isn't enough for such a big title and genre.
They're on the road of creating the biggest AAA themepark MMO out there, that sounds pretty big to me even if it might not be of a design choice that you'd have preferred for the game.
Originally posted by Bruise187
Thats all good if you plan on have one toon, but most of todays gamers want multiple toons. So while you might read all the text the first time like its the bible. The next zillion (few) times I bet you or others will want to be able to skip it and get onto something else. I would
Funnily enough, it's in the area of alts that SWTOR will really shine and be an altoholic's heaven. The chance that you will be doing different content with your alts than you did with your main is vastly higher in SWTOR than it has been in other themepark MMO's. So, if you think that SWTOR will be boring or a pest in this, then you must be bored right out of your mind and annoyed as hell with all other current themepark MMO's. Just saying
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
2. The graphics would have been superior. More realistic and less cartoony.
Have you seen the graphics of ME and ME2? That's as realistic as you can get. However, there's a reason that BW didn't opt for that, and that's because of the limitations it brings. If a company as Bethesda would have gone that way, then be prepared to have a lot smaller worlds and areas than SWTOR or a lot more lag, you only have to see AoC for that.
4. Space combat would NOT have been an after thought. Regardless if they have experience in this area, they would make it an engaging and adventurous experience.
Now you're starting to daydream
5. With EA fronting the bill, they would create an experience greater than anything we've seen in RPGs and change the standard of mmorpg development.
This argument makes no sense at all, EA is financing now as well. They wouldn't spend a hundred million dollars in unproven concepts, so it'd naturally have steered more towards themepark design.
Bioware make excellent RPGs, this is without question. Bethesda's skill at RPG development are also exceptional. They are the two best developers for RPGs. For an mmo though and for Tor, I believe Bethesda wins as far as creating a world that most gamers would be happy with and an experience that would provide longevity and reply value.
I don't know, it sounds a lot like wishful thinking or daydreaming, it's easy to think such things before hard realities kick in, like limitation in available technology, budget or resources. But, it's ok to daydream of course.
Originally posted by yodablaze
I also agree. I like this aspect of Tor's game design a lot but at the end of the day, so far what they have given us isn't enough for such a big title and genre.
They're on the road of creating the biggest AAA themepark MMO out there, that sounds pretty big to me even if it might not be of a design choice that you'd have preferred for the game.
Originally posted by Bruise187
Thats all good if you plan on have one toon, but most of todays gamers want multiple toons. So while you might read all the text the first time like its the bible. The next zillion (few) times I bet you or others will want to be able to skip it and get onto something else. I would
Funnily enough, it's in the area of alts that SWTOR will really shine and be an altoholic's heaven. The chance that you will be doing different content with your alts than you did with your main is vastly higher in SWTOR than it has been in other themepark MMO's. So, if you think that SWTOR will be boring or a pest in this, then you must be bored right out of your mind and annoyed as hell with all other current themepark MMO's. Just saying
Your right... i guess this game will revolutionize the rest of the industry. The fanboism here has defeated my dislike of themeparks for today.
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
Pointless thread. Beyond pointless actually. We have no proof that anything Bethesda could do would be better or worse and absolutely no way of even trying to prove it. To be honest though, since only about half of their products are any good, I don't have much confidence they could pull it off (personal opinion there I know). At least BioWare has a VERY long history of making good games (again, personal opinion there).
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Your right... i guess this game will revolutionize the rest of the industry. The fanboism here has defeated my dislike of themeparks for today.
Lol. Fanboism? I'm stating well known facts, there are some MMO's I'm looking forward to more, but that doesn't prevent me from seeing what SWTOR has to offer and what it doesn't.
I see how you can so easily say that fans state that SWTOR will revolutionize the industry if you put those words in their mouths yourself. Nowhere did I state that SWTOR will revolutionize the genre and I won't state that in future, those are solely your words.
It will evolutionize certain themepark gameplay aspects though from what it looks like, as in a gradual progression no radical changes. But for those that hate/dislike themepark gameplay, I suggest looking at other titles that'll be more fulfilling for their specific gaming needs.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If Bethesda had their go at this IP, it would have made history and changed the way mmos are developed and played. Bioware will make a great game but it will be far from legendary. Story is great but freedom and "adventure" is even better. Being able to tell a story and give a sense of "freedom" is what Bioware lacks in all of their titles. Most of their games are very fun to play all the way through but only once. They always try to make up for their linear design by adding side quests that have multiple solutions, dialog or story, but the end content always ends up being the same. This is a big problem when you create a linear game. You can in many ways make it seem as if you have control of the direction of your path but at the end of the day it is very hard to create multiple end stories. Bethesda games have countless hours of reply value because even though there are story based objectives, the entire experience feels adventurous and gives the player a true sense that they have a little control over their destiny.
My point I believe many are missing is that Tor currently is:
Story, action, story, action, dialog, action.
Based upon the over all design, it seems to lack "adventure", the element of surprise, exploration and discovery. If you do not complete all of the missions and objectives, will Tor still be a fun game with re-play value? Bioware focused on story driven content to be what makes this game great. Will this alone be enough? I don't think so. It doesn't have to be a complete "sandbox" to add a sense of adventure.
If Bethesda were to make TOR, they'd bend the IP over the table and have their way with it, much as they did with Fallout. It would have fantastic visuals, but otherwise be a buggy, unplayable mess since they'd spend all their development $$ on celebrity voice actors instead of quality control. Also the story would be bland and derivative, with a disappointing ending.
Critics would praise it to death though, since Bethesda also sets aside much of their development budget to pay for glowing reviews. That, or all the critics are brain dead, which is about as likely.
Im not overly excited about Tor. Once upon a time I almost worshipped Bioware, but over the last few years, I find myself more and more dissapointed by their games. Im not seeing any features regarding Tor that really excites me. Star Wars is very cool stuff, but its not enough.
As far as Bethesda making it? Im not even sure if Bethesda should be making mmorpgs. I'll also add they happen to be my favorite developer. Yet I just dont feel that their style exactly fits in an mmo setting. They make masterful single player RPGS, but I just cant seem to envision one of their worlds with a thousand people running around at the same time. Somehow, it just doesnt seem to fit to me.
If anyone was going to make a Tor game, Id definately have to pick the current contender, Bioware. Kotor was excellent. But Ive seen little to nothing so far that makes me think Tor should have even been an mmo. It looks like the game would have been just fine as a single player entry, as it currently stands. Im not ranting that I'd like a Kotor 3, which would be nice. I was very thrilled at the prospect of a Kotor like mmorpg. But I see nothing to really get excited about here in terms of an mmorpg. All the voice dialog is okay I guess, but as far as an mmo goes, I could live with or without it and could care less. And otherwise? I see nothing else they are doing new and different here.
Id also like to add that Bioware made a name for itself through innovation and bringing something new to the table with every game they've ever made. Thats what made them famous, as well as their attention to creativity and quality. I feel that trend slowly dying away the last few years, since EA got ahold of them. Not saying thats absolutely the case, but thats exactly when I began to notice the quality of their games taking a small, yet noticeable dive in novelty and quality.
You can take quests in nearly every order (one off quests and short chain quests are like this already)
You'd have an over arching story (which again you have here already)
It would be a FPS (which is different)
You'd have a lot of bugs (which is likely to be different in this game)
Bethesda has no expierence with the star wars universe (this is different from Bioware who does)
You generally have people talking with different voices though out conversation (beggers anyone?)
You'd be stuck looking right at their face the entire conversation
Lots more alien type species**
The key difference i see here are as follows.
FPS versus standard RPG
Different ways of doing dialog
and a different amount of bugs in game.
More species (i 2 stared the alien species because i think this is about the only plus of bethesda doing it over Bioware)
Plus Bethesda hasn't touch star wars before so they may not understand the universe and all it's interweaving ideals.
As for open worlds and being able to take quests at any time...you are able to do that in TOR so i don't understand how thats a disadvantage.
Besthesda makes FPS? Since when? Unless you mean that dodgy weird camera control in Oblivion.
Did you forget Mass Effect, that game is more FPS than Oblivion/Fallout 3 ever will be.
But yes I can never see Bethesda making a MMORPG ever........they have always make game that revolve around one player, to put it in an online context will destroy that element, then it wouldn't really be a bethesda product. And Stars Wars with Bethesda? yikes how many ugly alien fce will I have to look at.......their character modelling had never been too impressive, nor art style/graphic elements.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
If Bethesda had their go at this IP, it would have made history and changed the way mmos are developed and played. Bioware will make a great game but it will be far from legendary. Story is great but freedom and "adventure" is even better. Being able to tell a story and give a sense of "freedom" is what Bioware lacks in all of their titles. Most of their games are very fun to play all the way through but only once. They always try to make up for their linear design by adding side quests that have multiple solutions, dialog or story, but the end content always ends up being the same. This is a big problem when you create a linear game. You can in many ways make it seem as if you have control of the direction of your path but at the end of the day it is very hard to create multiple end stories. Bethesda games have countless hours of reply value because even though there are story based objectives, the entire experience feels adventurous and gives the player a true sense that they have a little control over their destiny.
I believe Bethesda could have made a better game based upon their ability to "improve" their game design with each title. Bioware is using the same format that has seemingly worked for their linear RPGs. Tor is an mmorpg not an rpg. If you honestly believe story alone is going to provide longevity for this title, I highly disagree. Bioware needs to focus on creating a world that is engaging enough to want to play over and over again based upon unpredictable events and adventurous opportunities, not assuming their pre-determined paths will be enough to make us want to run the same scenario but with different answers or story direction.
Tor will be fun, it may even become the mmo of choice (for a while) but stop deceiving yourselves into believing that it will be revolutionary. They have your money now, feeding us mediocrity and everyone screams "hell yah" because it is Star Wars. I am very excited to see a polished Star Wars mmo being produced in our modern day, but this one has not utilized the full opportunity for greatness. Oh, well...
I've played tons of Bethesda games don't see what it is that makes them so revolutionary from title to title, as a matter of fact some of the games they have produced have been downright buggy which is not something I associate with Bioware (though I heard there are some problems with DA2).
I think this thread is just your way of saying you prefer Bethesda games to Bioware which is your right. Bioware makes far more dynamic stories then Bethesda so I just don't see it.
Maybe if you said something to the effect of if Bethesda was to make SWG2 I could agree.
If Bethesda did TOR, I would probably fall asleep playing. Their games are boring to me.
I feel the same way about 'find your own adventure' games. Take Morrowind as an example, a game a lot of gamers love.. From the very beginning of the game, I was at a complete loss as to where I should go, what I should do, and why I even cared.
Comments
I like games from both Bethesda and Bioware. In the case of Bethesda I first would wait to see if they could make their client stable enough before I purchase it
Not sure really, havent played any themepark mmos from bioware yet so unlike you I cant say they are good at it..for some reason(you can has magic I guess o0). Really though, do we need another themepark? Almost all of the themepark games have failed when they tried to follow to close to wow with the exception of a handfull.
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
Sorry, but you've already lost that bet, there have been quite a few examples already regarding quests where different decisions led to different outcomes, also to different follow up quests.
Also, you just skipped past the point that most people - maybe only not you or ppl like you - favor the story immersive questing that SWTOR will have above the current traditional textbased questing.
If that's not your thing, then I'd advise you to stay away from the upcoming MMO's SWTOR, GW2 and TSW, because they will all have that kind of story immersive questing and you'll hate them for it. If those MMO's will be successful, then it'll even become more a trend to do quests that way than it already is with 3 AAA MMO's implementing it into their gameplay
Well, it was directed towards the OP who just automatically assumed that Bethesda would be better with even less ground to say it. At least there has been a huge pile of impressions and reports from people who've actually spent hours in SWTOR.
As for themepark MMO's, maybe you're in the wrong sections if you dislike/abhor themepark MMO's that much? Look elsewhere if you don't like new MMO's being themepark MMO's, there are quite a few upcoming ones that aren't, so if you keep looking up themepark MMO's while those non-themepark or different type of MMO's are around, well... it would be a bit odd.
As for failing, if those themepark MMO's have 'failed' then sandbox MMO's have been a complete disaster, as well as most early MMO's since most of those didn't make the money or had the subs that those 'failed' themepark MMO's have had.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It might not be in right now and maybe not ever. Just saying i bet they will go to a faction bar just like other games Thats why i said if it isnt in now I BET they will. just saying they will turn into a rep grind where people will be pushing whatever to grind that darkside or lightside rep. Plus itsa good thing I dont come here for advise from tall the pro forum trolls with thousands of posts. When do you guys find time to game?
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
after a few weeks there will probably be 'trainers' that tell you what options to choose for which outcomes/rewards, and skipping through conversations is a good point.. it will happen.. most people skip through text conversations, so i have no doubt voice ones will be treated the same way.. just really to progress to the good bits.. not everyone wants to sit and watch an episode of neighbours on their computer after all .. players generally arent that bothered about story.. its the game play and the rewards that count... and thats how the game will be graded.. on how good these things are. very few players have the patience or the interest to investigate a games lore etc.. mostly.. their too busy playing, and things like that can be considered interruptions.
Bethseda cant do a large scale game like swtor , they are too small of a developer. So instead they do average size open world game with one storyline.
Makes me wonder. I seem to have always thought they were about the same size company. Which is bigger? Im pretty sure the size of the company wouldnt matter to the game or player. gameplay maters.....Sounds like something my wife always tries to make me feel better bout...o0.
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
This isn't simply because of sandbox vs theme park. I happen to like either style. The reasons I believe Bethesda could have done this title justice are as follows:
1. The game would be more gritty, realistic and finally live up to the potential that I honestly believe most Star Wars fans are looking for (less bubble gum). It doesn't have to be "mature" content, just more mature.
2. The graphics would have been superior. More realistic and less cartoony.
3. Highly adventurous. It would of course include story and LOTS of content but the level of exploration, adventure and surprise would be amazing.
4. Space combat would NOT have been an after thought. Regardless if they have experience in this area, they would make it an engaging and adventurous experience.
5. With EA fronting the bill, they would create an experience greater than anything we've seen in RPGs and change the standard of mmorpg development.
Bioware make excellent RPGs, this is without question. Bethesda's skill at RPG development are also exceptional. They are the two best developers for RPGs. For an mmo though and for Tor, I believe Bethesda wins as far as creating a world that most gamers would be happy with and an experience that would provide longevity and reply value.
If CapCom did TOR that would have been ideal. I mean Star Wars is all about conflict, and who knows conflict better than the purveyors of the ever famous Street Fighter series?
Just sayin'.
Well, no. They are an "arcade" company. They don't know the first thing about RPG game development.
I think you're wrong.
Not everyone treats questing as a bothersome has-to-be-done task list that needs to be done on a fast track to level cap where they expect the actual game to begin. Personally I find that way of playing an MMO boring as hell, but kudos to you if you can get a kick of playing MMO's and leveling like that
. For quite a number of people the journey is as important as the destination.
I've always found questing in singleplayer games more immersive than in MMO's, so I can only applaud the MMO makers who're trying to implement that level of quest immersion in MMO's as well. Apparently according to the gameplay impressions from SWTOR players the majority of them seem to share that viewpoint, SWTOR way of questing being more enjoyable and fun to them than the current traditional way of questing.
But hey, for people like you, there's always the option to just skip as much as possible and just blindly pick choices, it'll almost be just as you're familiar with in current MMO's
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I also agree. I like this aspect of Tor's game design a lot but at the end of the day, so far what they have given us isn't enough for such a big title and genre.
Thats all good if you plan on have one toon, but most of todays gamers want multiple toons. So while you might read all the text the first time like its the bible. The next zillion (few) times I bet you or others will want to be able to skip it and get onto something else. I would
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
I don't know, it sounds a lot like wishful thinking or daydreaming, it's easy to think such things before hard realities kick in, like limitation in available technology, budget or resources. But, it's ok to daydream of course.
They're on the road of creating the biggest AAA themepark MMO out there, that sounds pretty big to me even if it might not be of a design choice that you'd have preferred for the game.
Funnily enough, it's in the area of alts that SWTOR will really shine and be an altoholic's heaven. The chance that you will be doing different content with your alts than you did with your main is vastly higher in SWTOR than it has been in other themepark MMO's. So, if you think that SWTOR will be boring or a pest in this, then you must be bored right out of your mind and annoyed as hell with all other current themepark MMO's. Just saying
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Your right... i guess this game will revolutionize the rest of the industry. The fanboism here has defeated my dislike of themeparks for today.
How many delicate flowers have you met in Counterstrike?
I got a case of beer and a chainsaw waiting for me at home after work.
Pointless thread. Beyond pointless actually. We have no proof that anything Bethesda could do would be better or worse and absolutely no way of even trying to prove it. To be honest though, since only about half of their products are any good, I don't have much confidence they could pull it off (personal opinion there I know). At least BioWare has a VERY long history of making good games (again, personal opinion there).
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Another disgruntled SWG vet wishing that this game was a sandbox...nothing to see here folks
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Lol. Fanboism? I'm stating well known facts, there are some MMO's I'm looking forward to more, but that doesn't prevent me from seeing what SWTOR has to offer and what it doesn't.
I see how you can so easily say that fans state that SWTOR will revolutionize the industry if you put those words in their mouths yourself. Nowhere did I state that SWTOR will revolutionize the genre and I won't state that in future, those are solely your words.
It will evolutionize certain themepark gameplay aspects though from what it looks like, as in a gradual progression no radical changes. But for those that hate/dislike themepark gameplay, I suggest looking at other titles that'll be more fulfilling for their specific gaming needs.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If Bethesda did TOR then it would be
Open world (which we have already)
You can take quests in nearly every order (one off quests and short chain quests are like this already)
You'd have an over arching story (which again you have here already)
It would be a FPS (which is different)
You'd have a lot of bugs (which is likely to be different in this game)
Bethesda has no expierence with the star wars universe (this is different from Bioware who does)
You generally have people talking with different voices though out conversation (beggers anyone?)
You'd be stuck looking right at their face the entire conversation
Lots more alien type species**
The key difference i see here are as follows.
FPS versus standard RPG
Different ways of doing dialog
and a different amount of bugs in game.
More species (i 2 stared the alien species because i think this is about the only plus of bethesda doing it over Bioware)
Plus Bethesda hasn't touch star wars before so they may not understand the universe and all it's interweaving ideals.
As for open worlds and being able to take quests at any time...you are able to do that in TOR so i don't understand how thats a disadvantage.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
My point I believe many are missing is that Tor currently is:
Story, action, story, action, dialog, action.
Based upon the over all design, it seems to lack "adventure", the element of surprise, exploration and discovery. If you do not complete all of the missions and objectives, will Tor still be a fun game with re-play value? Bioware focused on story driven content to be what makes this game great. Will this alone be enough? I don't think so. It doesn't have to be a complete "sandbox" to add a sense of adventure.
If Bethesda were to make TOR, they'd bend the IP over the table and have their way with it, much as they did with Fallout. It would have fantastic visuals, but otherwise be a buggy, unplayable mess since they'd spend all their development $$ on celebrity voice actors instead of quality control. Also the story would be bland and derivative, with a disappointing ending.
Critics would praise it to death though, since Bethesda also sets aside much of their development budget to pay for glowing reviews. That, or all the critics are brain dead, which is about as likely.
Im not overly excited about Tor. Once upon a time I almost worshipped Bioware, but over the last few years, I find myself more and more dissapointed by their games. Im not seeing any features regarding Tor that really excites me. Star Wars is very cool stuff, but its not enough.
As far as Bethesda making it? Im not even sure if Bethesda should be making mmorpgs. I'll also add they happen to be my favorite developer. Yet I just dont feel that their style exactly fits in an mmo setting. They make masterful single player RPGS, but I just cant seem to envision one of their worlds with a thousand people running around at the same time. Somehow, it just doesnt seem to fit to me.
If anyone was going to make a Tor game, Id definately have to pick the current contender, Bioware. Kotor was excellent. But Ive seen little to nothing so far that makes me think Tor should have even been an mmo. It looks like the game would have been just fine as a single player entry, as it currently stands. Im not ranting that I'd like a Kotor 3, which would be nice. I was very thrilled at the prospect of a Kotor like mmorpg. But I see nothing to really get excited about here in terms of an mmorpg. All the voice dialog is okay I guess, but as far as an mmo goes, I could live with or without it and could care less. And otherwise? I see nothing else they are doing new and different here.
Id also like to add that Bioware made a name for itself through innovation and bringing something new to the table with every game they've ever made. Thats what made them famous, as well as their attention to creativity and quality. I feel that trend slowly dying away the last few years, since EA got ahold of them. Not saying thats absolutely the case, but thats exactly when I began to notice the quality of their games taking a small, yet noticeable dive in novelty and quality.
Besthesda makes FPS? Since when? Unless you mean that dodgy weird camera control in Oblivion.
Did you forget Mass Effect, that game is more FPS than Oblivion/Fallout 3 ever will be.
But yes I can never see Bethesda making a MMORPG ever........they have always make game that revolve around one player, to put it in an online context will destroy that element, then it wouldn't really be a bethesda product. And Stars Wars with Bethesda? yikes how many ugly alien fce will I have to look at.......their character modelling had never been too impressive, nor art style/graphic elements.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I've played tons of Bethesda games don't see what it is that makes them so revolutionary from title to title, as a matter of fact some of the games they have produced have been downright buggy which is not something I associate with Bioware (though I heard there are some problems with DA2).
I think this thread is just your way of saying you prefer Bethesda games to Bioware which is your right. Bioware makes far more dynamic stories then Bethesda so I just don't see it.
Maybe if you said something to the effect of if Bethesda was to make SWG2 I could agree.
I feel the same way about 'find your own adventure' games. Take Morrowind as an example, a game a lot of gamers love.. From the very beginning of the game, I was at a complete loss as to where I should go, what I should do, and why I even cared.