I love how haters are bashing TOR in one sentence and then in the next talking up SOE's next project. Seriously guys? The same company that screwed up star wars and almost every IP they have touched? No thanks. After SWG,Matrix, and DCUO I'm suprised that you so called "savy gamers" are putting so much faith in that company. Sorry, but you guys lost all credibility with me. Been there,done that with SOE. NEVER AGAIN.
I think a person can hate some things in a game and like others.
Generally, a game looks better when you play it then when you look at screenshots and videos. Still, I think the visuals are indeed a letdown. I would not say crap, but surely nothing to write home about.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
and yeah... another korean grind to make you pay money monthly long enough to milk ya.
-_-
I've heard SWTOR referred to being a lot of things but this one? How the hell do you even equate that term to this game?
Sigh. I've got it preordered because I'm an idiot lol
Yeah, have to say it does kind of raise one's eyebrows considering your opinion of the game that you would preorder it.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I love how haters are bashing TOR in one sentence and then in the next talking up SOE's next project. Seriously guys? The same company that screwed up star wars and almost every IP they have touched? No thanks. After SWG,Matrix, and DCUO I'm suprised that you so called "savy gamers" are putting so much faith in that company. Sorry, but you guys lost all credibility with me. Been there,done that with SOE. NEVER AGAIN.
Yeah, truthfully considering their track record I'm not sure why anyone would expect anything above mediocrity at the best from SOE.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I want to like it so much because I'm a huge star wars fan and I loved galaxies and I will buy it regardless because I'm a huge star wars nerd...
but I'm also a veteran MMO player. I've played UO, Shadowbane, Eve, DAOC, EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, WoW, Rift, and more....
This game just seems like it's building off hype and the star wars name. All the trailers I've seen, all the videos... really leave me with this feeling of "cheesy and another cash cow". It doesn't leave me with this degree of OMG this game is perfection and totally going to kick ass. Reading the features, and keeping up on the game itself... only eight classes, space combat is a joke, and yeah... another korean grind to make you pay money monthly long enough to milk ya. Sigh. I've got it preordered because I'm an idiot lol
Bottom line is I've seen very little in the ways of "this is what other mmo's do, we're going to take that and build on it and improve it in this way" Instead I'm seeing, "AWESOME LIGHTSABER FIGHT!" and what star wars things will be in the game.
Pre-ordered too because,
A) Haven't played an MMORPG in ages.
Bored.
C) If I'm gonna blow my cash it may as well be on a Star Wars MMORPG made by Bioware.
Thanks for posting the link to that trailer. Primo stuff and far more exciting than anything else I've seen released for the IP in almost 30 years. I wish that Bioware had just gone ahead and made a damned CGI film instead of a game because I'd pay money for a full length feature of the same quality.
So um is BRAINWASHING anything other then your view point lmao also TY for the nagative hype in this thread because it just makes ppl want to play it more. You have just increesed my intreasted in TOR by 500% WOOT
Word of advise dont bash a game that has not even come out yet it makes you look like a real fool and you know what Obi Wan said about the fool... "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him? "
i'd beg to differ there are sources out there is you do your research the game is set on a 5 yr old graphical standard that doesn't scale very much it's a stylized art in the way wow is, and i've seen wow on killer rigs and it doesn't scale up neither does stwor.
All I said was there is the possibility of graphical scaling. To be honest though, I have seen other parts of the game scaled for various reasons and see no reason the graphical quality couldn't be as well. The Hero Engine this game is built on allows just that kind of thing with a great deal of ease. As for WoW not scaling . . . exactly how many MMO games built that long ago scaled graphics? Heck, not even many games today do it.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
If youre talking about graphics ive only seen a few vids where people actually had the graphics maxed out and it looks better than WoW, most of the stuff that looks like garbage/stiff animations etc are old old videos, also there is 16 classes not 8, at level 10 you get to choose from 2 seperate classes each which has 3 talent trees of their own
Also worth mentioning that there is no actual grind since you are playing through a story, would you consider a single player game like dragon age, mass effect, or really any RPG that follows a story a grind?
and the combat/animations now are just as smooth/fluid as WoWs are, if you take a bit to actually look at some gameplay that doesnt have some clicker kid standing still ontop of mobs using 1 ability per 10 seconds you could see that
Anyone knows if the 4 / 4 classes of each faction are actually different?
Because the advanced classes don't look like they are any different.
Jedi Knight advanced classes:
Guardian
A wall between the good people of the Republic and their enemies, the Guardian stands firm in the face of overwhelming odds and dares opponents to attack.
Sentinel
Control and focus are the hallmarks of the Sentinel. Through years of training the Sentinel learns the art of using two Lightsabers simultaneously to create an intricate web of damage that is almost impossible to evade.
Sith Warrior advanced classes:
Juggernaut
A stalwart defender of the Sith Empire, the Juggernaut embodies the teachings of Marka Ragnos, charging into enemies with heavy armor and pure rage.
Marauder
Entrusted with the task of destroying the Empire’s enemies, the dual-wielding Marauder embodies the teachings of Naga Sadow. Never hesitating, never faltering, there is no swifter bringer of pain in the galaxy.
Both classes seem to be the same, tank and dual wield.
sure they are similar in what role they perform, but they arnt the same, even just glancing at the bonuses that you get for choosing that class will show you that
You know...there's haters, they exist. People who just want to put other games down regardless of how good the game is. But I really don't think the Op is one.
He's basically saying that he's just kind of disappointed with what the game is looking like so far. He gives fairly general but fair reason for this, and a swarm of people jump on him for being a "hater."
It should be OK to be disappointed in a game and express this on a forum. It's not like he posted something obviously haterish like "Hahahah SWTOR sucks! It's totally going to fail fanbois!"
Anyone knows if the 4 / 4 classes of each faction are actually different?
Because the advanced classes don't look like they are any different.
Jedi Knight advanced classes:
Guardian
A wall between the good people of the Republic and their enemies, the Guardian stands firm in the face of overwhelming odds and dares opponents to attack.
Sentinel
Control and focus are the hallmarks of the Sentinel. Through years of training the Sentinel learns the art of using two Lightsabers simultaneously to create an intricate web of damage that is almost impossible to evade.
Sith Warrior advanced classes:
Juggernaut
A stalwart defender of the Sith Empire, the Juggernaut embodies the teachings of Marka Ragnos, charging into enemies with heavy armor and pure rage.
Marauder
Entrusted with the task of destroying the Empire’s enemies, the dual-wielding Marauder embodies the teachings of Naga Sadow. Never hesitating, never faltering, there is no swifter bringer of pain in the galaxy.
Both classes seem to be the same, tank and dual wield.
The classes are pretty much mirrored, they are not the same as in the abilities they get, but you will get similar abilities (ones that have roughly the same effect) if you go down the same path and want to create the same exact spec without making little changes along the way to what abilities you take or what advanced class you choose to max.
Main differences are, ability animations, when you get said abilities ( which is a major thing in the early game), and in most cases, the mechanics used to trigger abilities (like heat for bounty hunters, force for knights, etc.) Mirroring classes is one of the easiest ways to ensure there is some kind of balance.
All the gameplay videos show really bad character models, horrible animations (ever heard of motion capture?), and lack of decent collision detection.
Makes me think if they ever used same people who worked on any of the recent brilliant Bioware single-player games like Mass Effect and others. And don't tell me that same story about how different MMORPG is compared to singleplayer. Character models CAN be made better even with less polygons, and animations must be of the same quality no matter what.
Gameplay and immersion is yet to be tested, but visuals we can already see. It's really a shame, with so much investment. they come up with this.
All the gameplay videos show really bad character models, horrible animations (ever heard of motion capture?), and lack of decent collision detection.
Makes me think if they ever used same people who worked on any of the recent brilliant Bioware single-player games like Mass Effect and others. And don't tell me that same story about how different MMORPG is compared to singleplayer. Character models CAN be made better even with less polygons, and animations must be of the same quality no matter what.
Gameplay and immersion is yet to be tested, but visuals we can already see. It's really a shame, with so much investment. they come up with this.
I wish you were wrong, but.......
On the up-side a lot of cheap pc's should be able to run this game, that I'm less, and less likely to play.
All the gameplay videos show really bad character models, horrible animations (ever heard of motion capture?), and lack of decent collision detection.
Makes me think if they ever used same people who worked on any of the recent brilliant Bioware single-player games like Mass Effect and others. And don't tell me that same story about how different MMORPG is compared to singleplayer. Character models CAN be made better even with less polygons, and animations must be of the same quality no matter what.
Gameplay and immersion is yet to be tested, but visuals we can already see. It's really a shame, with so much investment. they come up with this.
Wow. Someone is showing some ignorance here. You might want to go check out the videos on the swtor.com website. You'll learn that they used a LOT of motion capture for animations. Personally, I like the art, the animations, AND the overall graphics I have seen so far though, so I have no idea where you are coming from on this.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
All the gameplay videos show really bad character models, horrible animations (ever heard of motion capture?), and lack of decent collision detection.
Makes me think if they ever used same people who worked on any of the recent brilliant Bioware single-player games like Mass Effect and others. And don't tell me that same story about how different MMORPG is compared to singleplayer. Character models CAN be made better even with less polygons, and animations must be of the same quality no matter what.
Gameplay and immersion is yet to be tested, but visuals we can already see. It's really a shame, with so much investment. they come up with this.
Couldn't agree more, and then souls wonder why we are upset, it is an absolute shame. Disapointment of the centry that this much time and money only spit out something this mediocre.
Yes! How dare a game company focus on story line and mechanics! It's all about the eye candy! Just ask Square Enix, Sony Entertainment (who went SO overboard that only the leetest of their players could afford a rig to even play the damned game), or NCSoft. They went heavy on the eyecandy and light on those things no one wants......ability to run the game, mechanics......fun.
If you want to reach a wide audience, you don't put system crippling visuals in a game and expect to make a ton of money. I'll take fun factor over "ooh purty" factor anyday.
PS - It's not like there has ever been a cartoony graphics MMO that has consistently held over 8 million subs or anything......oh wait...
DING! DING! DING!
A winner is you.
Seriously. IMO, TOR looks fine, not mind blowing like AoC but fine. Good art, good asthetics, average/above average graphics and I'm cool with that. I really just want my hundreds of hours of single player storyline combined with a full fledged universe to explore and quest on with my RL friends and NPC companions.
DING! DING! DING!
A looser is you.
Ever heard about graphics scaling? Check out LOTRO for example! It can run on pretty much any system! Yet people who like "shiny" graphics and invested in a good rig can max out the graphics and enjoy the game in full glory!
I'm not saying SW:TOR looks crap... it doesn't and looks decent, BUT! The Hero Engine they licensed is capable of more and better... so it's a missed opportunity in my book.
Especially since they are already bragging about a 15 year roadmap. Well sorry, but in a couple years from now this game is going to look extremely dated already! So they will have to start investing in updating the graphics sooner than later.
I would bet my bottom dollar that the terribly dated graphics is a very deliberate strategy to keep the barrier for entry as low as possible, they have looked at WOW, know that compared to that engine it is a lot better, and they are aiming for that market. Why else would it have such a dated look, it's not budget.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Yes! How dare a game company focus on story line and mechanics! It's all about the eye candy! Just ask Square Enix, Sony Entertainment (who went SO overboard that only the leetest of their players could afford a rig to even play the damned game), or NCSoft. They went heavy on the eyecandy and light on those things no one wants......ability to run the game, mechanics......fun.
If you want to reach a wide audience, you don't put system crippling visuals in a game and expect to make a ton of money. I'll take fun factor over "ooh purty" factor anyday.
PS - It's not like there has ever been a cartoony graphics MMO that has consistently held over 8 million subs or anything......oh wait...
DING! DING! DING!
A winner is you.
Seriously. IMO, TOR looks fine, not mind blowing like AoC but fine. Good art, good asthetics, average/above average graphics and I'm cool with that. I really just want my hundreds of hours of single player storyline combined with a full fledged universe to explore and quest on with my RL friends and NPC companions.
DING! DING! DING!
A looser is you.
Ever heard about graphics scaling? Check out LOTRO for example! It can run on pretty much any system! Yet people who like "shiny" graphics and invested in a good rig can max out the graphics and enjoy the game in full glory!
I'm not saying SW:TOR looks crap... it doesn't and looks decent, BUT! The Hero Engine they licensed is capable of more and better... so it's a missed opportunity in my book.
Especially since they are already bragging about a 15 year roadmap. Well sorry, but in a couple years from now this game is going to look extremely dated already! So they will have to start investing in updating the graphics sooner than later.
WTF is a looser?
The graphics look good and with good gameplay that's good enough.
I would bet my bottom dollar that the terribly dated graphics is a very deliberate strategy to keep the barrier for entry as low as possible, they have looked at WOW, know that compared to that engine it is a lot better, and they are aiming for that market. Why else would it have such a dated look, it's not budget.
Keep in mind this is pre-optimization. Graphics have gotten much better since the game was originally announced. While they will continue to get more detailed and better overall, art style won't change much if at all.
I think the animations are actually some of the best I've ever seen in an MMO, the major thing they need to work on is fluidity, which again, will happen as they optimize, its gotten much better already.
It's true the graphics aren't the best. But they are incredibly clean. Compared to other games like Rift and GW2, it has a very "quiet" graphics system. GW2 and Rift seem to be very noisy with details. But I think GW2 places more emphasis on watching those details. I wouldn't mind better graphics as my system should be able to run something higher already, but as some have said... this just opens up the game world for more people.
So I will say this... It will look outdated in the coming years, but it will ALWAYS have a clean look. Almost like an artistic cartoon. :P
Regarding the graphics and animations, they're not nearly as bad (anymore) as some make them out to be, they've been gradually getting better and better with each build over the past year.
In fact, I'll even say that the environment/landscape graphics are on par with the best in the AAA MMO genre, if not better in accordance with how someone's taste runs.
To give a number of examples:
Originally posted by maskedweasel
I think the animations are actually some of the best I've ever seen in an MMO, the major thing they need to work on is fluidity, which again, will happen as they optimize, its gotten much better already.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Regarding the graphics and animations, they're not nearly as bad (anymore) as some make them out to be, they've been gradually getting better and better with each build over the past year.
In fact, I'll even say that the environment/landscape graphics are on par with the best in the AAA MMO genre, if not better in accordance with how someone's taste runs.
To give a number of examples:
...
Originally posted by maskedweasel
I think the animations are actually some of the best I've ever seen in an MMO, the major thing they need to work on is fluidity, which again, will happen as they optimize, its gotten much better already.
My thoughts too.
I agree with you Mav. The graphics actually look pretty good now. Not earthshattering, but definitely decent and probably better than other other big MMORPGs out right now.
Comments
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I think a person can hate some things in a game and like others.
Generally, a game looks better when you play it then when you look at screenshots and videos. Still, I think the visuals are indeed a letdown. I would not say crap, but surely nothing to write home about.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Yeah, truthfully considering their track record I'm not sure why anyone would expect anything above mediocrity at the best from SOE.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Thanks for posting the link to that trailer. Primo stuff and far more exciting than anything else I've seen released for the IP in almost 30 years. I wish that Bioware had just gone ahead and made a damned CGI film instead of a game because I'd pay money for a full length feature of the same quality.
+1 for Gary Numan.
So um is BRAINWASHING anything other then your view point lmao also TY for the nagative hype in this thread because it just makes ppl want to play it more. You have just increesed my intreasted in TOR by 500% WOOT
Word of advise dont bash a game that has not even come out yet it makes you look like a real fool and you know what Obi Wan said about the fool... "Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him? "
TY
All I said was there is the possibility of graphical scaling. To be honest though, I have seen other parts of the game scaled for various reasons and see no reason the graphical quality couldn't be as well. The Hero Engine this game is built on allows just that kind of thing with a great deal of ease. As for WoW not scaling . . . exactly how many MMO games built that long ago scaled graphics? Heck, not even many games today do it.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I feel the same way, and the only reason I am going to play it is because its BIOWARE...of course, I am ignoring the fact they created DA II.
My only gripe so far is the cartoony graphics....If I see any PANDA's I will rage quit!
If youre talking about graphics ive only seen a few vids where people actually had the graphics maxed out and it looks better than WoW, most of the stuff that looks like garbage/stiff animations etc are old old videos, also there is 16 classes not 8, at level 10 you get to choose from 2 seperate classes each which has 3 talent trees of their own
Also worth mentioning that there is no actual grind since you are playing through a story, would you consider a single player game like dragon age, mass effect, or really any RPG that follows a story a grind?
and the combat/animations now are just as smooth/fluid as WoWs are, if you take a bit to actually look at some gameplay that doesnt have some clicker kid standing still ontop of mobs using 1 ability per 10 seconds you could see that
Black
Anyone knows if the 4 / 4 classes of each faction are actually different?
Because the advanced classes don't look like they are any different.
Jedi Knight advanced classes:
Guardian
A wall between the good people of the Republic and their enemies, the Guardian stands firm in the face of overwhelming odds and dares opponents to attack.
Sentinel
Control and focus are the hallmarks of the Sentinel. Through years of training the Sentinel learns the art of using two Lightsabers simultaneously to create an intricate web of damage that is almost impossible to evade.
Sith Warrior advanced classes:
Juggernaut
A stalwart defender of the Sith Empire, the Juggernaut embodies the teachings of Marka Ragnos, charging into enemies with heavy armor and pure rage.
Marauder
Entrusted with the task of destroying the Empire’s enemies, the dual-wielding Marauder embodies the teachings of Naga Sadow. Never hesitating, never faltering, there is no swifter bringer of pain in the galaxy.
Both classes seem to be the same, tank and dual wield.
sure they are similar in what role they perform, but they arnt the same, even just glancing at the bonuses that you get for choosing that class will show you that
Black
You know...there's haters, they exist. People who just want to put other games down regardless of how good the game is. But I really don't think the Op is one.
He's basically saying that he's just kind of disappointed with what the game is looking like so far. He gives fairly general but fair reason for this, and a swarm of people jump on him for being a "hater."
It should be OK to be disappointed in a game and express this on a forum. It's not like he posted something obviously haterish like "Hahahah SWTOR sucks! It's totally going to fail fanbois!"
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
The classes are pretty much mirrored, they are not the same as in the abilities they get, but you will get similar abilities (ones that have roughly the same effect) if you go down the same path and want to create the same exact spec without making little changes along the way to what abilities you take or what advanced class you choose to max.
Main differences are, ability animations, when you get said abilities ( which is a major thing in the early game), and in most cases, the mechanics used to trigger abilities (like heat for bounty hunters, force for knights, etc.) Mirroring classes is one of the easiest ways to ensure there is some kind of balance.
All the gameplay videos show really bad character models, horrible animations (ever heard of motion capture?), and lack of decent collision detection.
Makes me think if they ever used same people who worked on any of the recent brilliant Bioware single-player games like Mass Effect and others. And don't tell me that same story about how different MMORPG is compared to singleplayer. Character models CAN be made better even with less polygons, and animations must be of the same quality no matter what.
Gameplay and immersion is yet to be tested, but visuals we can already see. It's really a shame, with so much investment. they come up with this.
NEW IDEAS that can refresh the STALE state of MMORPGs
I wish you were wrong, but.......
On the up-side a lot of cheap pc's should be able to run this game, that I'm less, and less likely to play.
Wow. Someone is showing some ignorance here. You might want to go check out the videos on the swtor.com website. You'll learn that they used a LOT of motion capture for animations. Personally, I like the art, the animations, AND the overall graphics I have seen so far though, so I have no idea where you are coming from on this.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Couldn't agree more, and then souls wonder why we are upset, it is an absolute shame. Disapointment of the centry that this much time and money only spit out something this mediocre.
'A looser'? /sigh
I would bet my bottom dollar that the terribly dated graphics is a very deliberate strategy to keep the barrier for entry as low as possible, they have looked at WOW, know that compared to that engine it is a lot better, and they are aiming for that market. Why else would it have such a dated look, it's not budget.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
WTF is a looser?
The graphics look good and with good gameplay that's good enough.
Keep in mind this is pre-optimization. Graphics have gotten much better since the game was originally announced. While they will continue to get more detailed and better overall, art style won't change much if at all.
I think the animations are actually some of the best I've ever seen in an MMO, the major thing they need to work on is fluidity, which again, will happen as they optimize, its gotten much better already.
It's true the graphics aren't the best. But they are incredibly clean. Compared to other games like Rift and GW2, it has a very "quiet" graphics system. GW2 and Rift seem to be very noisy with details. But I think GW2 places more emphasis on watching those details. I wouldn't mind better graphics as my system should be able to run something higher already, but as some have said... this just opens up the game world for more people.
So I will say this... It will look outdated in the coming years, but it will ALWAYS have a clean look. Almost like an artistic cartoon. :P
Regarding the graphics and animations, they're not nearly as bad (anymore) as some make them out to be, they've been gradually getting better and better with each build over the past year.
In fact, I'll even say that the environment/landscape graphics are on par with the best in the AAA MMO genre, if not better in accordance with how someone's taste runs.
To give a number of examples:
My thoughts too.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
OP: Do you mean the game looks like crap as in visually or content wise? I'm a bit confused by what you mean.
I agree with you Mav. The graphics actually look pretty good now. Not earthshattering, but definitely decent and probably better than other other big MMORPGs out right now.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?