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Pay 2 win becoming legitimate? Have we really lost our way this much?
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Many of them HAVE actually been answered.
See above in green...
Not sure why everyone is so 'riled' up about this one.
People are going to spend their own money on how they wish, just like you and I.
Capitalism / Free Market is working as intended.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
The Online Only mode used is integral to the entire game. The monsters, bosses, drops, etc. are all server side. The game will run much the same way an MMO runs. That decision was made before they decided to put the Player to Player RMT AH in the game. It's keeping the overall game more secure.
'The Big Picture' might be that most people want to use a Player to Player RMT AH or that they just don't care about it. Do they enjoy the game? If the answer is, "Yes", then they are going to play it.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
That does not mean we all love seeing what Blizzard is doing with SC2 and D3 lately.
In as much as I have bought and played every game Blizzard made till SC2, I have unsubbed WoW (4 personal accounts) and skipped SC2, and might skip D3 (tears in my eyes).
RMAH is fine on it own, forcing internet connection is upsetting ... bits and pieces adding up, and some of us loyal supporters of old Blizzard are feeling weary.
"Win"? In the sense that there are more and more games starting out or switching to some type of F2P or hybrid business model, "they" have already "won". Do you have *any* idea how *profitable* that business model is in Asia? Of course, once others learn of it, they *will* want a piece of that Sweet Cash Shop Pie... Look at CCP with EVE online as just one of many examples.
As I've stated many times, I have no problem with Dev's making money off of their hard work and talent. Thats why if I enjoy a game with a cash shop, I make certain to use the cash shop. If the Dev's make money, they are more likely to continue the game, and expand on it. I have no idea why that concept structure is so difficult for some people to comprehend. There are zealots on both sides.
Those who absolutely can not abide cash shop games, should just stick with games they enjoy, that do not use that business model (for now). But the times, they are a changing (and granted not for the better in some regards).
I also do not agree and I will not buy D3.
But I also accept that my freedom on how I spend my own money is the same for everyone.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Good luck "putting an end to it". THEY control the police and military. They control the public "educational system". They control the mass media. They have controlled the power structures since the rise of the nation state itself. Say things do get bad enough for "The People" to rise up and topple their masters. The Powers That Be, simply wait for things to calm down, and then buy the next set of politicians, and the next, and the next.
On your second part I totally agree. But I'd add this. If you *enjoy* a game, no matter its business model, then by all means continue to enjoy it. That is the main point of this all, after all is said and done. I have NO problem paying for my enjoyment. I want the Dev's to be rewarded for their hard work, and talent in creating games that I enjoy.
The greatest pain comes in form of semi mind control. Ads, creation of demand, blind desire, false information, illusions, blinding people to reason. Subtle indoctrination through education. Outright brainwashing through control of press, selective deliberate falsification of press news.
By now, I wonder how much of my decision is really based on "truth". Do I really know what is going on in Africa, under the Ocean, or simply behind the doors in the offices of our own elected delegates? Can I trust the news I read, or the book, or the internet? How do I judge?
Very true, I hardly care who did what with their own copy of solo game. I play my own D2, and I enjoy a lot during those months.
Diablo 3 isnt even core pvp game, in fact blizzard even stated its not a pvp game... sure you can do it but its not balalnced for pvp or is it the core of the game.
There really is no rational or logical argument that can be made to oppose what Blizzard is doing with the AH option...ephasis on the word option.
Thanks, Rabenwolf, I did wander over to their site, but didn't stumble across a handy FAQ. That does answer some of the questions, and as you also said, the rest just remains to be seen. I'm interested in the outcome, simply because I've seen gold farmers thrive for too many years in MMOs off players who simply will not stop using RMT. Now we'll see what happens when everyone can sell to these players. It might end up a disaster, but it might also end up better than what we have now, although as I said before, my first preference is a no tolerance perma ban for both buyers and sellers. For whatever reason, that isn't happening, so my second preference is this. Let everyone buy and sell if they want to and see what comes of it.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
It's simple. Get 1000 players together on Battlenet that all believe that obtaining the best gear in the game is "winning", then add RMT then you have a recipy for P2W. However some people are stuck in the mindset that there is no competition in PvE . Only PvP. That is a limitation of thought and not actuality.
Competitions are defined by the individual. If two people decided that competing would be whomever beat the last boss first. Then you have a competition going on with no PvP.
Now you can foolishly and arrogantly believe, that only your opinion count on all things stupid and dumb, when it comes to competitions other than player vs player, such as competing for fame and fortune, bragging rights (who was the first to reach max level on a latter in diablo 2 latter system for instance) or prestige, just like a lot of posters here. It is however a fact of life that goals are as individual as there are different types of gamers. Whatever determins competition and "winning" can't be lumped into one box called PvP regardless of how much people want to
The media and education system are what worries me most. There are ways around the police and military. Thanks to our massive communication networks, we could easily and quickly organize the kind of regional and even global strikes that would scare the daylights out of the wealthy power players. They can't do anything without workers. If enough people simply will not work until our demands are met, they have to give in to those demands. It's not violence that we have to overcome, because they can't kill all of their wage slaves. It's the way the wage slaves buy into fake loyalties and fake dreams of prosperity that we have to overcome.
Which ties back into discretionary income. I see no reason people can't make a profit in this world, they simply must not be allowed to profit any longer from those things we have no choice about buying. Let those things be public, without private investment, shareholders, and profit, let the wages for anyone working in those essential industries be high. Then let anyone who wants to be a tycoon go into game development and the creation of other forms of entertainment. And if any tycoons turn up shady or just a tad too greedy, we can walk away, which we cannot do when it comes to energy, housing, healthcare, and food.
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
Competitions are defined by the individual. If two people decided that competing would be whomever beat the last boss first. Then you have a competition going on with no PvP.
Now you can foolishly and arrogantly believe, that only your opinion count on all things stupid and dumb, when it comes to competitions other than player vs player, such as competing for fame and fortune, bragging rights (who was the first to reach max level on a latter in diablo 2 latter system for instance) or prestige, just like a lot of posters here. It is however a fact of life that goals are as individual as there are different types of gamers. Whatever determins competition and "winning" can't be lumped into one box called PvP regardless of how much people want to
I guess the follow up question would be, "How are those 1,000 people buying stuff in the AH affecting your game play experience?" They'll get the best gear and brag about it to their friends and unless you are in their game or they've been invited into yours, you'll never see them. What difference does it make that they've cashed out of the game early?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The RMAH will affect players even if they only use the GoldAH! The GoldAH and the RMAH are just two side of the same coin as their CURRENCIES ARE EXCHANGEABLE.
An item will never be sold on the GoldAH for less gold than it's cash equivalent on the RMAH. For example, if [Sword of Skill] costs $1 on the RMAH and $1 will buy you 1000gp, then you will never see [Sword of Skill] sold for less than 1000gp on the GoldAH.
This wouldn't be a problem if gold farming/buying/selling weren't allowed, but the fact remains that they are. The price of gold WILL plummet as Chinese gold farmers pump more and more gold into the market.
What ends up happening is that $1 won't buy you just 1000 gp, it'll buy 100 000gp. At this point, it becomes almost impossible for the non-gold-buying player to acquire that much gp using only in-game means, virtually locking them out of BOTH GoldAH and RMAH.
This has happened in literally every other game with widespread gold farming/buying/selling and there is NO reason to think it won't happen in D3.
On several fronts. Not only do I feel the work I put into building up my character with gear devaluated or valuated depending on how you read that statement. It also influences it on a pure basic level why I play games that has "loot" in it to begin with. You see I never bought Torchlight because it was a single player game. I felt loot was pointless since it had no "bling" value. I couldn't compare and contrast in a multiplayer enviroment. Part of my joy with loot is seeing my gear improve over others or under performing compared to others motivating me to spend those extra hours into the night getting more "powerful" than the average player. I like that feeling. I don't get that feeling when people can buy to get that feeling.
I know it's easy to just say "Well mind your own business what others do don't affect you". Yes it does because I run my own little competition in MP games measuring myself up against others. It's on a personal level and not on a "MWHAHAHAHA! YOU SUCK NAB!!" kind of way. I rarely use the chat. It's strictly as a personal motivator to improve. I don't strut around either.
I'll gladly admit I pit myself against others both for the prestige, the killing, the survivability and a bunch of other factors that simply gets cheapen by being able to use cash.
Now I don't have all the time in the world between getting a second education and balancing a job on the side, I do however accept time to be the defacto that sets players apart. Not cash.
When the heck was gold ever neccisary in a Diablo game? I left piles and piles of it everywhere.
An item will never be sold on the GoldAH for less gold than it's cash equivalent on the RMAH. For example, if [Sword of Skill] costs $1 on the RMAH and $1 will buy you 1000gp, then you will never see [Sword of Skill] sold for less than 1000gp on the GoldAH.
This wouldn't be a problem if gold farming/buying/selling weren't allowed, but the fact remains that they are. The price of gold WILL plummet as Chinese gold farmers pump more and more gold into the market.
What ends up happening is that $1 won't buy you just 1000 gp, it'll buy 100 000gp. At this point, it becomes almost impossible for the non-gold-buying player to acquire that much gp using only in-game means, virtually locking them out of BOTH GoldAH and RMAH.
This has happened in literally every other game with widespread gold farming/buying/selling and there is NO reason to think it won't happen in D3.
The 'gold farmers' are less likely to use the in game market because of the fees involved. They operate on volume, not big items. Everything that doesn't sell will cost money. These are costs on top of all their other existing costs.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Gold will be more important in D3 than previous Diablo games.
It's simple. Get 1000 players together on Battlenet that all believe that obtaining the best gear in the game is "winning", then add RMT then you have a recipy for P2W. However some people are stuck in the mindset that there is no competition in PvE . Only PvP. That is a limitation of thought and not actuality.
Competitions are defined by the individual. If two people decided that competing would be whomever beat the last boss first. Then you have a competition going on with no PvP.
Now you can foolishly and arrogantly believe, that only your opinion count on all things stupid and dumb, when it comes to competitions other than player vs player, such as competing for fame and fortune, bragging rights (who was the first to reach max level on a latter in diablo 2 latter system for instance) or prestige, just like a lot of posters here. It is however a fact of life that goals are as individual as there are different types of gamers. Whatever determins competition and "winning" can't be lumped into one box called PvP regardless of how much people want to
I guess the follow up question would be, "How are those 1,000 people buying stuff in the AH affecting your game play experience?" They'll get the best gear and brag about it to their friends and unless you are in their game or they've been invited into yours, you'll never see them. What difference does it make that they've cashed out of the game early?
On several fronts. Not only do I feel the work I put into building up my character with gear devaluated or valuated depending on how you read that statement. It also influences it on a pure basic level why I play games that has "loot" in it to begin with. You see I never bought Torchlight because it was a single player game. I felt loot was pointless since it had no "bling" value. I couldn't compare and contrast in a multiplayer enviroment. Part of my joy with loot is seeing my gear improve over others or under performing compared to others motivating me to spend those extra hours into the night getting more "powerful" than the average player. I like that feeling. I don't get that feeling when people can buy to get that feeling.
I know it's easy to just say "Well mind your own business what others do don't affect you". Yes it does because I run my own little competition in MP games measuring myself up against others. It's on a personal level and not on a "MWHAHAHAHA! YOU SUCK NAB!!" kind of way. I rarely use the chat. It's strictly as a personal motivator to improve. I don't strut around either.
I'll gladly admit I pit myself against others both for the prestige, the killing, the survivability and a bunch of other factors that simply gets cheapen by being able to use cash.
Now I don't have all the time in the world between getting a second education and balancing a job on the side, I do however accept time to be the defacto that sets players apart. Not cash.
Why did you ever consider playing Diablo 3 in the first place? The RMT gear buying started in Diablo 2, not with the AH in Diablo 3. Unless you remove the ability of people to trade stuff, that isn't going to change.
I would say find something else to use as a measure of achievement. Then you can not only puff your chest out with hard earned gear, you can make fun of the posers who only have the gear and none of the achievements.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
why is everyone assuming that gold will be a transferable item in Diablo 3?
Blizzard said so on their forums or in the FAQ. You can trade gold for money.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Because Blizzard said that you can sell / buy gold for RL money as well?
Good question. I answered that best in another thread. I'll just copy paste it
"
I keep hearing the same argument ring in every apologist post or blog I see.
"Well RMT is going to exist no matter what so might as well embrace it" -
No no no. It's one thing to acknowledge it exists and quite another to embrace it and incorportate it into the game. I would much rather It be a losing battle of fighting illegal RMT than to incorporate it into a game embracing it that way.
The reason for that is simple. It doesn't bother me so much that it exist and can't be beat. There are some real risks involved using your credit card and getting hacked. If people want to take that risk then I say let them. I also applaud a system that does "something" to prevent illegal RMT even though it's very lacking and far from perfect, over accepting it. I can "rest easy at night" knowing I worked hard for something, and the other guy went the illegal route risking more than just getting scammed. I don't rest easy playing a game that accepts it. Or put it another way I don't play those types of games at all. "
B.T.H. I know I'm not alone in that. As for finding another motivator. It looks like I will have to If I'm going to stick with the new generation of suck. I have a better Idea though. I could just switch genres if this is a sign of things to come. I don't really have any control over what I find to be motivating or an achievement. It's not like you sit down and decide this stuff ya know?
They undermine the in-game efforts and merits of other players, as well as the purpose of the game itself.
What's the point of having items in the first place if there is no merit, reward or bragging rights in having them?
Like the OP said, the fun of acquiring items isn't having them, it's earning them. Remove away the challenge of acquiring them and they lose their meaning.