I hate to be choosing a Human in a fantasy RPG, but such it will be. I want my character's race to be noble, honourable, peaceful, and righteous.
Charr are too warlike, just for the sake of being warlike. Norn are too fame-seeking and self-promoting. Sylvari are too naive and mother-goddess-new-agey. And the Asura seem to be lost in the smaller details of technology while missing the bigger picture.
Humans are the only race without flaws, so it seems.
Ill probably try a human Engineer first. But I will roll a Necromancer, Warrior and Mesmer (or whatever name they give to the last class) too. Not sure what race Ill roll for each prof, but Charr and Asura will be among them.
I dont think Ill create a Sylvari. Or as profession Elementalist or Guardian. Undecided about Ranger and Thief still.
I hate to be choosing a Human in a fantasy RPG, but such it will be. I want my character's race to be noble, honourable, peaceful, and righteous.
Charr are too warlike, just for the sake of being warlike. Norn are too fame-seeking and self-promoting. Sylvari are too naive and mother-goddess-new-agey. And the Asura seem to be lost in the smaller details of technology while missing the bigger picture.
Humans are the only race without flaws, so it seems.
Humans? Please. Half of the humans follow Caudecus blindly because he pays for festivals and has a popular but stupid opinion about Ascalon and the Charr. The ministers are corrupt. The queen hardly has any power. The common man has no power at all. Many humans have become bandits. Humanity can hardly keep itself standing in the face of all the enemies it has to face. And they are without flaws? And that's even without bringing up general human nature.
Not to mention that the humans were even more warlike and brutal than the charr, which is interesting and a bit of lore that many people selectively forget.
See, before the charr even came back into the picture, the three human nations were warring in something they called the Guild Wars, and these human-only wars were so bloodthirsty, so brutal, so merciless, so depraved, and so horrible that it almost drove the entire human race to extinction. Again, long before the charr came into the picture. The funny thing? The charr saved humanity. Don't believe me? Read the lore. If not for the Searing and the invasion of Kryta, the Guild Wars would have continued. If the Guild Wars had continued, then humanity would have wiped itself out.
Now, here's the thing: The charr had been warring between their legions, too. But they didn't come anywhere close to wiping themselves out. So their wars couldn't have been as bloody and merciless as the wars of humanity. And here's another thing: People are xenophobic dickwads. Racism was born of this, where white people beliieved that black people had inferior brains because they were black and bullshit like that. Those who look at the charr and asume that they must be bloodthirsty murderers and tha the humans must be pure and good are cut from the same damn cloth.
This is why I talk about pseudo-racism as a problem. See, racism is a symptom of a bigger problem, a problem where a person will look at something and make an assumption based on looks rather than on facts. This is the kind of shit that causes racism. This is the sort of nonsense that people like white supremacists feed on. I hate that. I hate it even in regards to fantasy stuff, because it betrays a horrible mindset that's likely not going to be very pleasant outside of that fantasy setting, either.
This is why I'm going to play charr.
---
In fact, if you look at the lore, the lore of Tyria, Cantha, and Elona, then you'll notice that humans are objectively one of the biggest problems that that world has known. Canthans got themselves wiped out, Elonians got themselves wiped out, and if not for the Searing stopping the Guild Wars, then Tyrians would've wiped themselves out. They've constantly been the greatest aggressors and committed the most hate crimes objectively speaking, more so than any other race.
So please, take any self-righteousness elsewhere. The humans in the Guild Wars Universe are anything but just. I know the charr have their flaws, too, but no one is bullshitting about that and denying it. If they were then I'd be quoting the law to show what the charr have done. No, it's constantly that the humans are supposed to be divine purity, and that's bullshit, total bullshit. The lore says that humans are unstable, violent, and very interested in extinction agendas.
And I like how they are not placed in the "standard theme" like other Animal Humanoids are in games. You know, the "We love the nature" theme.
Me too. And I know, right? The charr are more in the role of survivalists. They've been screwed with since day one, by various groups, and they've found that they've had to band together and practise loyalty, discipline, and martial tactics more than any of the other races just to stay alive. They were preyed on by the tyrannous Forgotten, then they were saw as beasts by the humans who tried to wipe them out, and they've been fighting all the time. They've been fighting because they had to fight.
And over time they've picked up this fierce determination, to never back down, to never see their race extinct, but also to be independent, to never rely on the trickery or 'gifts' of so-called 'gods,' instead developing their own technologies and methods to further their strength, methods which are entirely their own - going on to create things like turrets and internal combustion engines, all to see that their race stands and will continue to stand against anyone whom might try to wipe them out.
In fact, the only time when they were responsible for being the aggressors without being manipulated into it was when they confronted the Norn. I can understand them mistaking the Norn for a strain of humanity and wanting to show them that the charr weren't to be messed with, that they wouldn't take any slack from these bigger humans, either. But they ended up becoming allies, respecting the strength of one another, probably with an oops moment on the part of the charr as they realised that the Norn aren't actually humans.
And now it's the dragons. No matter what, they'll just continue to stand, whatever it takes. They'll be loyal, they'll be disciplined, and they'll do whatever it takes. And they won't forget anyone who's been fair and just with them. I mean, look at The Vigil, the General of the Vigil is Almorra Soulkeeper, and she has bade The Vigil to look out for the weak, to be the protectors and the police of the lands, and she's a charr. It seems to be what they want. I think all the charr truly want is order.
And they strive to create order through discipline, loyalty, and machinery.
It's because of that that I find a lot to admire about them, as opposed to, indeed, just being another race of small-minded shamans and warriors who're afraid of that big ball of fire in the sky, worshi gods, and whatnot. (The charr are fiercely naytheist, too.) It's just this huge paradigm shift, it's turning away from what a beast race supposedly has to be. It's inventive, clever, and deeply impressive to me. It's funny because at first I thought I was going to play the Norn, because I like shapeshifters, but I just ended up falling in love with the charr.
And really, the charr get a lot of unfair flack from players based purely on how they look. That's the thing. I think Guild Wars 2 is going to break a lot of minds, because people don't expect the beast race to be clever, organised, disciplined, and organised, they expect them to be bloodthirsty, mindless, and warlike for the sake of war. But that's not the charr. You know how people are though... people assume. They assume based on appearance, but this is why we needed something to break the god damned stereotypes.
Some people are far too small-minded for their own good and buy into stereotypes way too much. Until well after release we're going to be having people living in denial, believing that the shiny humans are pure and good, and that the charr are evil and that they should be in another faction, like another particularly uninspired game I could name.
But hey, they'll learn. Or the denial will drive them insane.
Decided a long time ago that my first character will be a sylvari elementalist. Now since sylvari week I've decided I need at least two sylvari, one summer skin and one winter skin. Winter skin probably be necromancer,
I hate to be choosing a Human in a fantasy RPG, but such it will be. I want my character's race to be noble, honourable, peaceful, and righteous.
Charr are too warlike, just for the sake of being warlike. Norn are too fame-seeking and self-promoting. Sylvari are too naive and mother-goddess-new-agey. And the Asura seem to be lost in the smaller details of technology while missing the bigger picture.
Humans are the only race without flaws, so it seems.
Humans? Please. Half of the humans follow Caudecus blindly because he pays for festivals and has a popular but stupid opinion about Ascalon and the Charr. The ministers are corrupt. The queen hardly has any power. The common man has no power at all. Many humans have become bandits. Humanity can hardly keep itself standing in the face of all the enemies it has to face. And they are without flaws? And that's even without bringing up general human nature.
Let me clarify. The human's IDEAL is - in my opinion - good. Not all humans are good, of course, but humans have goals and ideals that are good.
What ideals do Charr have? War?
What ideals do Norn have? To become famous and popular?
What ideals do Asura have? To tinker with things with no regards to the final consequences?
What ideals do Sylvari have? ...Do the Sylvari even know what they want or what their purpose is?
I hate to be choosing a Human in a fantasy RPG, but such it will be. I want my character's race to be noble, honourable, peaceful, and righteous.
Charr are too warlike, just for the sake of being warlike. Norn are too fame-seeking and self-promoting. Sylvari are too naive and mother-goddess-new-agey. And the Asura seem to be lost in the smaller details of technology while missing the bigger picture.
Humans are the only race without flaws, so it seems.
Humans? Please. Half of the humans follow Caudecus blindly because he pays for festivals and has a popular but stupid opinion about Ascalon and the Charr. The ministers are corrupt. The queen hardly has any power. The common man has no power at all. Many humans have become bandits. Humanity can hardly keep itself standing in the face of all the enemies it has to face. And they are without flaws? And that's even without bringing up general human nature.
Let me clarify. The human's IDEAL is - in my opinion - good. Not all humans are good, of course, but humans have goals and ideals that are good.
What ideals do Charr have? War?
What ideals do Norn have? To become famous and popular?
What ideals do Asura have? To tinker with things with no regards to the final consequences?
What ideals do Sylvari have? ...Do the Sylvari even know what they want or what their purpose is?
Where did you get the idea from that ideal of humans is to be good? Nothing points in that direction. Humans who have those ideals are the exception, not the rule.
I think the ideal of the Charr is to rule as much as possibly and to be the strongest they can be. War is not a goal but a means.
Norn do not do it for fame in this life per se but to leave a legend even after they have died.
Asura want to understand the magical and scientifical workings of the world and use that knowledge to create.
Sylvari have two goals as far as we know. To experience as much as possible and to defeat the dragons.
I hate to be choosing a Human in a fantasy RPG, but such it will be. I want my character's race to be noble, honourable, peaceful, and righteous.
Charr are too warlike, just for the sake of being warlike. Norn are too fame-seeking and self-promoting. Sylvari are too naive and mother-goddess-new-agey. And the Asura seem to be lost in the smaller details of technology while missing the bigger picture.
Humans are the only race without flaws, so it seems.
Humans? Please. Half of the humans follow Caudecus blindly because he pays for festivals and has a popular but stupid opinion about Ascalon and the Charr. The ministers are corrupt. The queen hardly has any power. The common man has no power at all. Many humans have become bandits. Humanity can hardly keep itself standing in the face of all the enemies it has to face. And they are without flaws? And that's even without bringing up general human nature.
Let me clarify. The human's IDEAL is - in my opinion - good. Not all humans are good, of course, but humans have goals and ideals that are good.
What ideals do Charr have? War?
What ideals do Norn have? To become famous and popular?
What ideals do Asura have? To tinker with things with no regards to the final consequences?
What ideals do Sylvari have? ...Do the Sylvari even know what they want or what their purpose is?
Where did you get the idea from that ideal of humans is to be good? Nothing points in that direction. Humans who have those ideals are the exception, not the rule.
I think the ideal of the Charr is to rule as much as possibly and to be the strongest they can be. War is not a goal but a means.
Norn do not do it for fame in this life per se but to leave a legend even after they have died.
Asura want to understand the magical and scientifical workings of the world and use that knowledge to create.
Sylvari have two goals as far as we know. To experience as much as possible and to defeat the dragons.
I think your view of the races is pretty biased.
Okay, I understand that actions speak louder than words, and Human's actions have been less than stellar in the past. But I think we should leave the past behind us, and work towards the future.
The cultural leaders, and the cultural viewpoint of Humans, suggest goals that are morally good. Or at least they strive to be.
The Charr seem to crave strength for the sake of strength. While having a militaristic culture as a means to some end is understandable, I'm not exactly sure what their "end" is. It seems like their war-machine IS their self-reinforcing purpose.
Norn want to leave a legend behind. Great. What are they willing to do to make that happen? They seem to care a lot about how others think and perceive of them. Real leaders and heros don't care about their perception.
The Asura want to create, sure. They're like today's typical scientists and engineers: Making weapons, bombs, and dangerous technologies, without the slightest concern or understanding of the practical consequences. They care about their own creations more than the effect it may have on others, or how others may use it.
The Sylvari haven't had enough time to develop a deep enough culture. And their fairly naive. There's not much negative about them... but nothing positive yet either.
My point is... only the Human culture seems to be at all concerned about what is morally good. The others - Sylvari excluded - seem to care more about themselves, their success, their power, their fame, etc. (The Sylvari seem to be floating around in a sea of confusion and naivety... which isn't much better.)
So...you are going to play charr because of slavery and the KKK? The whole line of thought, of not playing humans in a video game because of the real world history of rascism and intolerance is the essence of bizarre (and a little bit unhealthy, if I may say so). There is a divide between fantasy and reality. There is a filter. It might be good to reacquaint yourself with this notion.
So...you are going to play charr because of slavery and the KKK? The whole line of thought, of not playing humans in a video game because of the real world history of rascism and intolerance is the essence of bizarre (and a little bit unhealthy, if I may say so). There is a divide between fantasy and reality. There is a filter. It might be good to reacquaint yourself with this notion.
Well - to be fair - I think he/she is just talking about how the reasons we have racism in the real world sort of extends to other things as well, like the lore of Guild Wars.
That said, I think it's perfectly understandable to judge cultures and compare them. I know this will send some people into fits, but some cultures are morally better than other cultures.... that's just the way it is. The point of my posts above is that this line of thinking can extend to Guild Wars too: I think the Human culture is morally superior.
Of course, no one individual should be judged based on the culture they belong to... and that's the real problem with humans (in the real world): they tend to generalize cultures and norms and percpetions onto individuals, which leads to today's racism. But to allay the fears of Dream_Chaser, I promise I won't be prejudiced against Charr or Norn or Asura or Sylvari!
I just think it's easier to be a morally good character when your culture is supportive of that. It's much more difficult to be morally good when your culture promotes war, or fame-seeking, etc.
I am going to play every single race. ALL of them.
l will rotate them.
I will then figure out which story interests me the more, and create the other 3 professions spread out among the races that end up being 'best' in my opinion.
Also, now that they have had Sylvari week, I know that my Sylvari will either be a necromancer or a thief. Which I DIDN'T want to do, because that's what the two Sylvari in the books are.
... but bioluminescence overwrites my worry about following along with book characters too closely.
I'm either going to sneak around with a glowing face...
... or try and look badass and serious. With a glowing face.
Now if people would stop being so prejudiced and viral in their desire to overwrite everything with what they see as perfection like some Nietzche-borne virus, then I'd be a much, much happier person. You have no idea. I think in abstracts, I'm like that, and I often look at the mind of the person as part of the equation and really it just amounts to people being a sort of macro-virus. Something else exists, it is there, I must overwrite it with myself. It's a very, very human thing and it defines human nature, but I personally don't think it should.
It's the same with ideas regarding the sylvari (in regards to my Sylvari thread) and the charr. I like doing what I can to help sollidify ideas rather than take away from them, but so many people love kicking the sandcastle, the sandcastle that is the idea, to dismantle it and replace it with something of their own creation, and not accept diversity in any way, shape, or form. That sort of mind depresses me, and that there are so many people out there like that tends to make me a massive pessimist.
I mean, when confronted with charr technology, so many people across so many forums tried to destroy their industrial revolution, their vehicles, the Engineer's tools, and everything else because it didn't fit their own views. I could name some small-minded individuals responsible for this but I'm not that petty, they know who they are. Instead of taking an idea as something that someone has built, and trying to fortify it with suggestions as to how it might exist, they sought only to knock it down to replace it with something of their own.
It's the same with people who view the charr as bloodthirsty monsters, it's because they want to imprint their view of humanity and the charr unto humanity and the charr, even though it doesn't necessarily fit. In fact, there are shades of grey all over humanity and the charr, they've both done terrible things. To survive the charr have committed acts of atrocity that they can never be proud of, but humans have too, it's a giant mess which the alliance seeks to rectify. But the alliance is an idea, a sandcastle to be knocked over, people don't like the idea so they try to overwrite it with something more pleasant.
And that goes as far as the asura being incredibly clever magic users, too. They use quantum magicks to make stargates and giant cubes hang in the sky! Now see, that's the stuff of wonder and I love the asura for being the asura. But no, that's not good enough, it's an idea which contradicts the conceptions and ideas that people already have. The asura must be gnomes, so it has to be technology or techno-magic, they're not smart enough to this without technology and people don't want to listen to or even suggest how the asura might be smart enough to do this without technology.
And there is so much of that.
We must shut down all the ideas, they emit a highly creative notion which drives the nerds crazy.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Well... in terms of the big-picture, I don't think people will change. Humans are known for extreme laziness. Heaven-forbid someone has to make a fair decision! It's so much easier to just stay in your comfort zone and use bias and prejudice instead as your guide. This applies to everything in life, but also games such as these.
If GW2 is truly as amazing as it seems, then people will eventually "try it out" and realize for themselves. No amount of "telling" will work, only "showing".
Now if people would stop being so prejudiced and viral in their desire to overwrite everything with what they see as perfection like some Nietzche-borne virus, then I'd be a much, much happier person. You have no idea. I think in abstracts, I'm like that, and I often look at the mind of the person as part of the equation and really it just amounts to people being a sort of macro-virus. Something else exists, it is there, I must overwrite it with myself. It's a very, very human thing and it defines human nature, but I personally don't think it should.
It's the same with ideas regarding the sylvari (in regards to my Sylvari thread) and the charr. I like doing what I can to help sollidify ideas rather than take away from them, but so many people love kicking the sandcastle, the sandcastle that is the idea, to dismantle it and replace it with something of their own creation, and not accept diversity in any way, shape, or form. That sort of mind depresses me, and that there are so many people out there like that tends to make me a massive pessimist.
I mean, when confronted with charr technology, so many people across so many forums tried to destroy their industrial revolution, their vehicles, the Engineer's tools, and everything else because it didn't fit their own views. I could name some small-minded individuals responsible for this but I'm not that petty, they know who they are. Instead of taking an idea as something that someone has built, and trying to fortify it with suggestions as to how it might exist, they sought only to knock it down to replace it with something of their own.
It's the same with people who view the charr as bloodthirsty monsters, it's because they want to imprint their view of humanity and the charr unto humanity and the charr, even though it doesn't necessarily fit. In fact, there are shades of grey all over humanity and the charr, they've both done terrible things. To survive the charr have committed acts of atrocity that they can never be proud of, but humans have too, it's a giant mess which the alliance seeks to rectify. But the alliance is an idea, a sandcastle to be knocked over, people don't like the idea so they try to overwrite it with something more pleasant.
And that goes as far as the asura being incredibly clever magic users, too. They use quantum magicks to make stargates and giant cubes hang in the sky! Now see, that's the stuff of wonder and I love the asura for being the asura. But no, that's not good enough, it's an idea which contradicts the conceptions and ideas that people already have. The asura must be gnomes, so it has to be technology or techno-magic, they're not smart enough to this without technology and people don't want to listen to or even suggest how the asura might be smart enough to do this without technology.
And there is so much of that.
We must shut down all the ideas, they emit a highly creative notion which drives the nerds crazy.
And that's enough bearing of my soul. But that's my motivations, if you're curious.
At the end of the day you forget the most important part of what drives the feelings towards not liking visual and gameplay choices in games and other forms of entertainment. ALIENATION.
If the person is alienated by something, if it doesnt fit the perspective which is immersive in a believable way then that is not only their right, but it makes more sense than "all is grey" rhetoric.
Imagine a game where, all the large buff hairy warrior men all had the voices of little girls and spoke like Twighlight Tweens, and where all the lithe sexual female charcters had burly man voices and belched all the time.
This is an extreme example of what can cause alienation, even if its in an utterly fictional world. Humans, by their own nature, identify and react. Its one of the core elements of game design from a challenge mechanics standpoint, it is also critical in visual presentation. To disgregard much of that just for the say of saying "anythings possible in fantasy" doesnt quite fly as a valid critism of those being alienated by the fact.
Comments
Asura Mesmer (if that truely is the final profession that has been hinted at in the past few months) or Guardian.
I hate to be choosing a Human in a fantasy RPG, but such it will be. I want my character's race to be noble, honourable, peaceful, and righteous.
Charr are too warlike, just for the sake of being warlike. Norn are too fame-seeking and self-promoting. Sylvari are too naive and mother-goddess-new-agey. And the Asura seem to be lost in the smaller details of technology while missing the bigger picture.
Humans are the only race without flaws, so it seems.
Ill probably try a human Engineer first. But I will roll a Necromancer, Warrior and Mesmer (or whatever name they give to the last class)
too. Not sure what race Ill roll for each prof, but Charr and Asura will be among them.
I dont think Ill create a Sylvari. Or as profession Elementalist or Guardian. Undecided about Ranger and Thief still.
Norn Engineer or Thief
Norn Siiide! *throws up gang sign*
Humans? Please. Half of the humans follow Caudecus blindly because he pays for festivals and has a popular but stupid opinion about Ascalon and the Charr. The ministers are corrupt. The queen hardly has any power. The common man has no power at all. Many humans have become bandits. Humanity can hardly keep itself standing in the face of all the enemies it has to face. And they are without flaws? And that's even without bringing up general human nature.
Not to mention that the humans were even more warlike and brutal than the charr, which is interesting and a bit of lore that many people selectively forget.
See, before the charr even came back into the picture, the three human nations were warring in something they called the Guild Wars, and these human-only wars were so bloodthirsty, so brutal, so merciless, so depraved, and so horrible that it almost drove the entire human race to extinction. Again, long before the charr came into the picture. The funny thing? The charr saved humanity. Don't believe me? Read the lore. If not for the Searing and the invasion of Kryta, the Guild Wars would have continued. If the Guild Wars had continued, then humanity would have wiped itself out.
Now, here's the thing: The charr had been warring between their legions, too. But they didn't come anywhere close to wiping themselves out. So their wars couldn't have been as bloody and merciless as the wars of humanity. And here's another thing: People are xenophobic dickwads. Racism was born of this, where white people beliieved that black people had inferior brains because they were black and bullshit like that. Those who look at the charr and asume that they must be bloodthirsty murderers and tha the humans must be pure and good are cut from the same damn cloth.
This is why I talk about pseudo-racism as a problem. See, racism is a symptom of a bigger problem, a problem where a person will look at something and make an assumption based on looks rather than on facts. This is the kind of shit that causes racism. This is the sort of nonsense that people like white supremacists feed on. I hate that. I hate it even in regards to fantasy stuff, because it betrays a horrible mindset that's likely not going to be very pleasant outside of that fantasy setting, either.
This is why I'm going to play charr.
---
In fact, if you look at the lore, the lore of Tyria, Cantha, and Elona, then you'll notice that humans are objectively one of the biggest problems that that world has known. Canthans got themselves wiped out, Elonians got themselves wiped out, and if not for the Searing stopping the Guild Wars, then Tyrians would've wiped themselves out. They've constantly been the greatest aggressors and committed the most hate crimes objectively speaking, more so than any other race.
So please, take any self-righteousness elsewhere. The humans in the Guild Wars Universe are anything but just. I know the charr have their flaws, too, but no one is bullshitting about that and denying it. If they were then I'd be quoting the law to show what the charr have done. No, it's constantly that the humans are supposed to be divine purity, and that's bullshit, total bullshit. The lore says that humans are unstable, violent, and very interested in extinction agendas.
Norn.
The following statement is false
The previous statement is true
Charr!
Always liked the Charr since I first encountered them in Guild Wars Beta. And always wanted to play as one, and now I can. I cant wait. ^^
And I like how they are not placed in the "standard theme" like other Animal Humanoids are in games. You know, the "We love the nature" theme.
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Me too. And I know, right? The charr are more in the role of survivalists. They've been screwed with since day one, by various groups, and they've found that they've had to band together and practise loyalty, discipline, and martial tactics more than any of the other races just to stay alive. They were preyed on by the tyrannous Forgotten, then they were saw as beasts by the humans who tried to wipe them out, and they've been fighting all the time. They've been fighting because they had to fight.
And over time they've picked up this fierce determination, to never back down, to never see their race extinct, but also to be independent, to never rely on the trickery or 'gifts' of so-called 'gods,' instead developing their own technologies and methods to further their strength, methods which are entirely their own - going on to create things like turrets and internal combustion engines, all to see that their race stands and will continue to stand against anyone whom might try to wipe them out.
In fact, the only time when they were responsible for being the aggressors without being manipulated into it was when they confronted the Norn. I can understand them mistaking the Norn for a strain of humanity and wanting to show them that the charr weren't to be messed with, that they wouldn't take any slack from these bigger humans, either. But they ended up becoming allies, respecting the strength of one another, probably with an oops moment on the part of the charr as they realised that the Norn aren't actually humans.
And now it's the dragons. No matter what, they'll just continue to stand, whatever it takes. They'll be loyal, they'll be disciplined, and they'll do whatever it takes. And they won't forget anyone who's been fair and just with them. I mean, look at The Vigil, the General of the Vigil is Almorra Soulkeeper, and she has bade The Vigil to look out for the weak, to be the protectors and the police of the lands, and she's a charr. It seems to be what they want. I think all the charr truly want is order.
And they strive to create order through discipline, loyalty, and machinery.
It's because of that that I find a lot to admire about them, as opposed to, indeed, just being another race of small-minded shamans and warriors who're afraid of that big ball of fire in the sky, worshi gods, and whatnot. (The charr are fiercely naytheist, too.) It's just this huge paradigm shift, it's turning away from what a beast race supposedly has to be. It's inventive, clever, and deeply impressive to me. It's funny because at first I thought I was going to play the Norn, because I like shapeshifters, but I just ended up falling in love with the charr.
And really, the charr get a lot of unfair flack from players based purely on how they look. That's the thing. I think Guild Wars 2 is going to break a lot of minds, because people don't expect the beast race to be clever, organised, disciplined, and organised, they expect them to be bloodthirsty, mindless, and warlike for the sake of war. But that's not the charr. You know how people are though... people assume. They assume based on appearance, but this is why we needed something to break the god damned stereotypes.
Some people are far too small-minded for their own good and buy into stereotypes way too much. Until well after release we're going to be having people living in denial, believing that the shiny humans are pure and good, and that the charr are evil and that they should be in another faction, like another particularly uninspired game I could name.
But hey, they'll learn. Or the denial will drive them insane.
Either works for me.
Decided a long time ago that my first character will be a sylvari elementalist. Now since sylvari week I've decided I need at least two sylvari, one summer skin and one winter skin. Winter skin probably be necromancer,
Let me clarify. The human's IDEAL is - in my opinion - good. Not all humans are good, of course, but humans have goals and ideals that are good.
What ideals do Charr have? War?
What ideals do Norn have? To become famous and popular?
What ideals do Asura have? To tinker with things with no regards to the final consequences?
What ideals do Sylvari have? ...Do the Sylvari even know what they want or what their purpose is?
Where did you get the idea from that ideal of humans is to be good? Nothing points in that direction. Humans who have those ideals are the exception, not the rule.
I think the ideal of the Charr is to rule as much as possibly and to be the strongest they can be. War is not a goal but a means.
Norn do not do it for fame in this life per se but to leave a legend even after they have died.
Asura want to understand the magical and scientifical workings of the world and use that knowledge to create.
Sylvari have two goals as far as we know. To experience as much as possible and to defeat the dragons.
I think your view of the races is pretty biased.
Okay, I understand that actions speak louder than words, and Human's actions have been less than stellar in the past. But I think we should leave the past behind us, and work towards the future.
The cultural leaders, and the cultural viewpoint of Humans, suggest goals that are morally good. Or at least they strive to be.
The Charr seem to crave strength for the sake of strength. While having a militaristic culture as a means to some end is understandable, I'm not exactly sure what their "end" is. It seems like their war-machine IS their self-reinforcing purpose.
Norn want to leave a legend behind. Great. What are they willing to do to make that happen? They seem to care a lot about how others think and perceive of them. Real leaders and heros don't care about their perception.
The Asura want to create, sure. They're like today's typical scientists and engineers: Making weapons, bombs, and dangerous technologies, without the slightest concern or understanding of the practical consequences. They care about their own creations more than the effect it may have on others, or how others may use it.
The Sylvari haven't had enough time to develop a deep enough culture. And their fairly naive. There's not much negative about them... but nothing positive yet either.
My point is... only the Human culture seems to be at all concerned about what is morally good. The others - Sylvari excluded - seem to care more about themselves, their success, their power, their fame, etc. (The Sylvari seem to be floating around in a sea of confusion and naivety... which isn't much better.)
So...you are going to play charr because of slavery and the KKK? The whole line of thought, of not playing humans in a video game because of the real world history of rascism and intolerance is the essence of bizarre (and a little bit unhealthy, if I may say so). There is a divide between fantasy and reality. There is a filter. It might be good to reacquaint yourself with this notion.
Well - to be fair - I think he/she is just talking about how the reasons we have racism in the real world sort of extends to other things as well, like the lore of Guild Wars.
That said, I think it's perfectly understandable to judge cultures and compare them. I know this will send some people into fits, but some cultures are morally better than other cultures.... that's just the way it is. The point of my posts above is that this line of thinking can extend to Guild Wars too: I think the Human culture is morally superior.
Of course, no one individual should be judged based on the culture they belong to... and that's the real problem with humans (in the real world): they tend to generalize cultures and norms and percpetions onto individuals, which leads to today's racism. But to allay the fears of Dream_Chaser, I promise I won't be prejudiced against Charr or Norn or Asura or Sylvari!
I just think it's easier to be a morally good character when your culture is supportive of that. It's much more difficult to be morally good when your culture promotes war, or fame-seeking, etc.
I am going to play every single race. ALL of them.
l will rotate them.
I will then figure out which story interests me the more, and create the other 3 professions spread out among the races that end up being 'best' in my opinion.
Also, now that they have had Sylvari week, I know that my Sylvari will either be a necromancer or a thief. Which I DIDN'T want to do, because that's what the two Sylvari in the books are.
... but bioluminescence overwrites my worry about following along with book characters too closely.
I'm either going to sneak around with a glowing face...
... or try and look badass and serious. With a glowing face.
Glowing face.
I just like saying that.
Glowing face.
@Bhorzo
Good!
Now if people would stop being so prejudiced and viral in their desire to overwrite everything with what they see as perfection like some Nietzche-borne virus, then I'd be a much, much happier person. You have no idea. I think in abstracts, I'm like that, and I often look at the mind of the person as part of the equation and really it just amounts to people being a sort of macro-virus. Something else exists, it is there, I must overwrite it with myself. It's a very, very human thing and it defines human nature, but I personally don't think it should.
It's the same with ideas regarding the sylvari (in regards to my Sylvari thread) and the charr. I like doing what I can to help sollidify ideas rather than take away from them, but so many people love kicking the sandcastle, the sandcastle that is the idea, to dismantle it and replace it with something of their own creation, and not accept diversity in any way, shape, or form. That sort of mind depresses me, and that there are so many people out there like that tends to make me a massive pessimist.
I mean, when confronted with charr technology, so many people across so many forums tried to destroy their industrial revolution, their vehicles, the Engineer's tools, and everything else because it didn't fit their own views. I could name some small-minded individuals responsible for this but I'm not that petty, they know who they are. Instead of taking an idea as something that someone has built, and trying to fortify it with suggestions as to how it might exist, they sought only to knock it down to replace it with something of their own.
It's the same with people who view the charr as bloodthirsty monsters, it's because they want to imprint their view of humanity and the charr unto humanity and the charr, even though it doesn't necessarily fit. In fact, there are shades of grey all over humanity and the charr, they've both done terrible things. To survive the charr have committed acts of atrocity that they can never be proud of, but humans have too, it's a giant mess which the alliance seeks to rectify. But the alliance is an idea, a sandcastle to be knocked over, people don't like the idea so they try to overwrite it with something more pleasant.
And that goes as far as the asura being incredibly clever magic users, too. They use quantum magicks to make stargates and giant cubes hang in the sky! Now see, that's the stuff of wonder and I love the asura for being the asura. But no, that's not good enough, it's an idea which contradicts the conceptions and ideas that people already have. The asura must be gnomes, so it has to be technology or techno-magic, they're not smart enough to this without technology and people don't want to listen to or even suggest how the asura might be smart enough to do this without technology.
And there is so much of that.
We must shut down all the ideas, they emit a highly creative notion which drives the nerds crazy.
@_@
And that's enough bearing of my soul. But that's my motivations, if you're curious.
Polls like this are useless when they just revealed a class (well, "re-revealed it).
Sylvari will auto win this, lets make the poll in a month instead.
Norn. Jora is my hero
Dream_Chaser:
Well... in terms of the big-picture, I don't think people will change. Humans are known for extreme laziness. Heaven-forbid someone has to make a fair decision! It's so much easier to just stay in your comfort zone and use bias and prejudice instead as your guide. This applies to everything in life, but also games such as these.
If GW2 is truly as amazing as it seems, then people will eventually "try it out" and realize for themselves. No amount of "telling" will work, only "showing".
I will start with Norn. But, I have a tendency to play 2 "main" characters, so my second will probably be Sylvari.
Probably Norn Necro and Sylvari Ranger. Or maybe flip that. It's hard to decide when the game's not out yet! Hurry up Anet! You're driving me crazy!
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
Since leveling won't be such a pain in the ass, i'll try them all as time goes on., but my main will probably be Human.
At the end of the day you forget the most important part of what drives the feelings towards not liking visual and gameplay choices in games and other forms of entertainment. ALIENATION.
If the person is alienated by something, if it doesnt fit the perspective which is immersive in a believable way then that is not only their right, but it makes more sense than "all is grey" rhetoric.
Imagine a game where, all the large buff hairy warrior men all had the voices of little girls and spoke like Twighlight Tweens, and where all the lithe sexual female charcters had burly man voices and belched all the time.
This is an extreme example of what can cause alienation, even if its in an utterly fictional world. Humans, by their own nature, identify and react. Its one of the core elements of game design from a challenge mechanics standpoint, it is also critical in visual presentation. To disgregard much of that just for the say of saying "anythings possible in fantasy" doesnt quite fly as a valid critism of those being alienated by the fact.
I love Eir (obviously), even if she "stirred up the ghosts down here".
Asura Thief
Fast and small
Uhh... what?
