I'm a huge Star Wars nerd to the extent of reading Wookiepedia until I get hungry or tired and realize I just spend several hours reading it and TOR doesn't excite me.
Something just seems off about it. Maybe it's the combat or animation style or being so similair to WoW or a tube shooter for space combat. Probably a combination of those factors.
I'm a huge Star Wars fan, but won't just buy into this game because of that. You have to imagine how much hype this game would be getting if the Star Wars name wasn't attached to it.
I feel very little.
Unless something else has me at the time of release (D3, Tera, GW2, WoW exp, Borderlands 2 etc) then I'll probably try it out. But that is only because I 'always need to have a game to play' and not because this game looks amazing.
Now if they brought this out with a SWG pre NGE.. oh I would be pumped.
There would be just as much hype, or at least close to it, even if the name Star Wars was not attached to this game. You know why? Because the name Bioware is still attached to it, that's why. Don't fool yourself.
yep mass effect 3 :O return of the aliens or reapers :P
I agree. I am on my 3rd play through on ME2 and doing another play through of DA:2 (played DA:O through every origin story). If I get a game that is ME +KOTOR/ Star Wars+ MMO with 10 X the amount of content I am going to be a happy clam. I was on the train for many MMOs such as Age of Conan and Warhammer online and totally bought into the hype. In the end, a year + later AOC became a good polished game but the overall dissapointment was huge for me.
I think the reason I am still hyped for this game is as I noted above. Bioware with elements of ME:2 dialogue tree choices and Dragon Age companion AI + KOTOR + MMO with that much more content. Look at the game in that light and if you are at all a fan of what Bioware has done this game should spark some hype in you. I think I am looking at SWTOR differently and that is why I am still thrilled to see release day.
yep i am waiting on mass effect 3 looks awsome i cant wait :)and march 6 of 2012 is my birthday ^_^. greatest birthday gift ever
Since these writers are all under the heading of Columns, I've always figured they were just a soapbox for that particular writer to espouse whatever idea was on their mind at the time. And not restricted to cutting edge, hard nosed investigative journalisim. So I don't see why the "news descussion" forum header should matter to anyone.
My only concern with this particular article is wondering has the entertainment value of MMOs devolved so much that all we are left with to talk about, or more importantly, devote a weekly column to, are things we don't particularly care about? Is a topic of only lukewarm interest to the cloumnist the only thing she could find to write about? And keep in mind I'm not saying "Why did she write about not really being hyped for SWTOR when she could have picked the more exciting topic of [whatever], because frankly I can't think of a damn intersting new thing in the world of MMOs to chat about either.
With the exception of the eternally optimisitic Bill Murphy, when did we MMOers all become akin to a group of mopey children stuck indoors on a rainy day?
"Wanna play a quest based themepark?"
"Did that already."
"Wanna play a sandbox game?"
"They're all old, or broken, or missing most of the peices."
"How about a puzzle?"
"Puzzles are dumb."
"Your're dumb."
"You suck."
"No YOU suck!"
. . .
"Superheor MMO?"
"Superheroes are teh g**y."
"Are not!"
"Are so!"
ad nauseum.
Oh well. It just seems such a shame to to think that the malaise of dispair and apathy that has been seeping into the general game forums, like filth from a broken septic system, may be starting to contaminate the weelky columns as well.
I kind of figure it to be like that scene in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, at the end, where Valiant is fighting Judge Doom.
People start playing MMO's and get more involved in these communities where they have fun, simply enough. They join the forums here to enjoy their time talking about something new and exciting to them... then suddenly, they have glue on their hands and feet and are stuck to a steamroller as it smashes them flat.
Unfortunately, they don't die, they just bounce back twice as crazy and demented as ever.
This article is virtually indistinguishable from the many many forum posts made over the last few years from disgruntled SWG vets who are upset that TOR isn't going to be SWG2. How many times do we have to hear this exact argument? And now it gets a spot on the front page as a featured article?
This is nothing new... clearly TOR won't be for everyone. For those of you who can't accept a Star Wars MMORPG idea other than an SWG-style sandobx, all I can say is why are you still bothering to even follow the game? You know it isn't going to be what you want it to be. We've known for YEARS now exactly what this game is going to be. This article just shows the clear sandbox bias of this site and its writers and it is kind of messed up that a whiney ant-TOR rant like this gets posted as an article on this site.
Do we see articles about how un-interested the MMMORPG.com staff is about any other games coming out? I haven't seen any articles about why GW2 sucks for instance... I know this is an opinion piece, but still it seems like it should be a post in the TOR forum rather than an article on the front page. Just my two cents...
I am very excited for SWToR, however, as with any new MMO, I expect there to be severe whining and nerd rage when it actually comes out, no matter how good it is. This is the internet after all and the voices of the complainers and the never satisfied are always the loudest.
Currently playing: Rift Played: SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot World of Warcraft, AoC
Initially this game wasn't even on my radar, zero interest because it wasn't like SWG so i didn't care. I got SWG because a friend said its pretty cool, to this day i tell him he was fool, it wasn't cool, it was only the best MMO to have ever existed.
Wasn't long I handed down my 500+ player guild to some very close friends and rarely ever came back, i was at home on Tatooine. Friends and players from my former guild came with me but i didn't want to run another guild and they were cool with that. I grouped with them allot for stuff they wanted and i even remember spending an epic weekend camped/camping in front of my computer (literally) hardly sleeping at all, to get my Hero of Tatooine ring.
I loved watching peeps come on and watch them log off hours later and watch them come on the next morning and getting the "you still on dude?" Yep i was getting that ring once and for all, and after a 4 day weekend blitz, it took another week to get that final mob, memories of a life time.
This is only one of dozens upon dozens of stories from that game i have and share with friends at parties and online, you lived in that world. We still tell the tale of when we all walked/ran, not fast travel or mounts from Mos Eisley to Fort Tuskan, anyone who did this in the early days knows how legendary this was.
To watch the Fort start to grow in the distance and the mood changed completely, i still get shivers just thinking about how awesome that was, and then realizing in chat someone held the run key down the entire trip, as they discovered there was an auto run key the whole time, epic good times. To understand this you had to have made the trip in wasn't a splash screen of loading and you were there it was a actually trip, an experience we all shared.
What real stories, real happenings, real experiences can you share with friends now? Now it's like talking about a movie over coffee after a show, although that's cool too, it's not like experiencing a "real" adventure together.
Not long everyone started getting off planet and traveling about and one day someone asked me to help them on Corrisant, i replied with "yeah, you know what, it's about time to head out into space to another planet", the chat lite up like an xmas tree when i told them I'd never been off Tatooine, 4 months into the game and never even left the first planet i started on.
Maybe they were even more surprised when i said nah to chasing down the Jedi dream, i loved being a moisture farmer. It's another reason i didn't want to run a guild well a city, i wanted to be a farmer i loved my role in the world. Allot of people just don't get that.
Eventually they blew SWG up and we all moved over to EQ2, early EQ2 years were pretty dang good, the group synergy required to get anything done was legendary and i dunno sometimes better than 1 at times (to me anyway), night after night working on quest chains, for months on end, going after raid and epic boss's to get our marks or whatever we were chasing.
You know that feeling, a bunch o peeps playing for years, you don't even need to say anything, you can predict each others moves before they even know they're going to do it, and the slightest i mean slightest mistake, BOOM - wipe.
When you're in this type of tight group and you're running like a well oiled machine, everything is clicking, the rhythm is tight, there is no other feeling like it in the world, indescribable. Allot of today's gamers will never know what this is like, that is a real shame. Heck you can't even get that experience from EQ2 anymore in its current mess/disastrous state.
You know what i never did back when games were good, forums, heck i thought you only go there for support. Here we are years later and we are still telling tales of adventure from many years ago. Today's gamer stories are i leveled to 50 in 20 hours and we did this instance in 7 minutes well at least until the next shiny comes along, same stories different title.
Unfortunately i had to get on the train of new mmo releases, you know the roller coaster of hype, cool, disappointed, hype, cool, disappointed. This game is going to be no different, and why am i here if i was not interested. Well my kids actually, not getting into that story but i love single players games as much as i love a good mmo, and when they told me this was a "one button i win online version of kotor" i got interested (i love kotor) and although I was initially excited, that quickly faded when i realized, the kids are right.
Screw their story. If I want to passively observe someone else's story I will watch a movie or read a book as you attempt to analogize. It is a failed analogy. In an Online Role Playing game, you should be able to make up stories with your friends or even PUGs. This might not make sense to some people that want only the shallow arcade improved-split screen experience, but this is where many of us that played PnP games are coming from. It doesn't have to be fully sandbox to allow RP, but scripted RP is scripted RP and a viable MMO needs more. The 1 or 2 choices that seem to be presented in this game may be an attempt but I'm concerned about the replayability. From what I can gather, once you go through the story once, you've gone through it.
Isn't this the same currently? When you have leveled your char to level cap, you've done the quests, the next time with another character, they'll be the same. So why bashing this game aspect on SWTOR, when the current quest leveling situation is even less than that?
This is the question that I rarely ever get an answer to from sandbox fan(boi)s or the burnt out MMO vet crowd, probably because they know they can only reply with a weak or flawed answer: what is so superior about the current quest based leveling situation, that what SWTOR is doing isn't an improvement of it?
What BW is doing is revamping the quest leveling and make it more enjoyable than the current situation, I find it puzzling to see that people wouldn't like that. I think it must be people who haven't been playing or enjoying themepark MMO's for a long while. Well, I have, LotrO and Rift recently, I embrace and encourage any change of the current quest leveling situation.
What BW is doing is making a very linear single player experience into a mmo that really has no good end-game.
It's amazing how they can spend so much money yet leave out so many things that players expect and want from their mmo.
This was a good column and I wish it had went deeper into the facts of what ToR is missing.
? You're of course wrong. SWTOR has Operations, flashpoints, open world pvp, War zones and crafting, all the things that you'll also see in other MMO's, or at least some of those features (LotrO has no open world pvp). Now if you don't know what themepark MMO gameplay is anymore or have grown tired of themepark MMO's, that's your problem.
For people who actually still enjoy themepark MMO's, SWTOR will have all the usual MMO endgame features that can be expected in a themepark MMO.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm not excited either. Granted, I've never really been into the SW films. I really did enjoy early SWG - not for the SW but for its community and gameplay elements. It did some things very right and did some things very wrong. But it did foster a very fun and intriguing virtual world.
As a MMO, I'm just expecting it to be another WoW, LotRO, or Rift.... essentially the same old same old but with Bioware's narrative flourishes and some unique nuances to accomodate that. However, I'm tired of "that" MMO and even with a stronger emphasis on story, I don't think "that" MMO will intrigue me for very long. I think for players that still enjoy those MMO trappings that WoW made ever so popular, I have a strong feeling they'll find SWTOR extremely exciting.
Screw their story. If I want to passively observe someone else's story I will watch a movie or read a book as you attempt to analogize. It is a failed analogy. In an Online Role Playing game, you should be able to make up stories with your friends or even PUGs. This might not make sense to some people that want only the shallow arcade improved-split screen experience, but this is where many of us that played PnP games are coming from. It doesn't have to be fully sandbox to allow RP, but scripted RP is scripted RP and a viable MMO needs more. The 1 or 2 choices that seem to be presented in this game may be an attempt but I'm concerned about the replayability. From what I can gather, once you go through the story once, you've gone through it.
Isn't this the same currently? When you have leveled your char to level cap, you've done the quests, the next time with another character, they'll be the same. So why bashing this game aspect on SWTOR, when the current quest leveling situation is even less than that?
This is the question that I rarely ever get an answer to from sandbox fan(boi)s or the burnt out MMO vet crowd, probably because they know they can only reply with a weak or flawed answer: what is so superior about the current quest based leveling situation, that what SWTOR is doing isn't an improvement of it?
What BW is doing is revamping the quest leveling and make it more enjoyable than the current situation, I find it puzzling to see that people wouldn't like that. I think it must be people who haven't been playing or enjoying themepark MMO's for a long while. Well, I have, LotrO and Rift recently, I embrace and encourage any change of the current quest leveling situation.
What BW is doing is making a very linear single player experience into a mmo that really has no good end-game.
It's amazing how they can spend so much money yet leave out so many things that players expect and want from their mmo.
This was a good column and I wish it had went deeper into the facts of what ToR is missing.
? You're of course wrong. SWTOR has Operations, flashpoints, open world pvp, War zones and crafting, all the things that you'll also see in other MMO's, or at least some of those features (LotrO has no open world pvp). Now if you don't know what themepark MMO gameplay is anymore or have grown tired of themepark MMO's, that's your problem.
For people who actually still enjoy themepark MMO's, SWTOR will have all the usual MMO endgame features that can be expected in a themepark MMO.
yup agree, its common sense. If you are a Star wars fan, or indeed still love themepark, then SWTOR is going to be great. If you love Star Wars but are sick to death of themepark, then you will love the levelling experience and maybe so far into the end-game to get a bit off closure before you alt a bit but you will get sick of it. Resonable positition for a game to market for imo.
Re comments above:
Screw their story. If I want to passively observe someone else's story I will watch a movie or read a book as you attempt to analogize.
Your missing the point, if you can immerse yourself in the story then it is no different than a book. Personally the game doesnt do it for me.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Screw their story. If I want to passively observe someone else's story I will watch a movie or read a book as you attempt to analogize. It is a failed analogy. In an Online Role Playing game, you should be able to make up stories with your friends or even PUGs. This might not make sense to some people that want only the shallow arcade improved-split screen experience, but this is where many of us that played PnP games are coming from. It doesn't have to be fully sandbox to allow RP, but scripted RP is scripted RP and a viable MMO needs more. The 1 or 2 choices that seem to be presented in this game may be an attempt but I'm concerned about the replayability. From what I can gather, once you go through the story once, you've gone through it.
Isn't this the same currently? When you have leveled your char to level cap, you've done the quests, the next time with another character, they'll be the same. So why bashing this game aspect on SWTOR, when the current quest leveling situation is even less than that?
This is the question that I rarely ever get an answer to from sandbox fan(boi)s or the burnt out MMO vet crowd, probably because they know they can only reply with a weak or flawed answer: what is so superior about the current quest based leveling situation, that what SWTOR is doing isn't an improvement of it?
What BW is doing is revamping the quest leveling and make it more enjoyable than the current situation, I find it puzzling to see that people wouldn't like that. I think it must be people who haven't been playing or enjoying themepark MMO's for a long while. Well, I have, LotrO and Rift recently, I embrace and encourage any change of the current quest leveling situation.
What BW is doing is making a very linear single player experience into a mmo that really has no good end-game.
It's amazing how they can spend so much money yet leave out so many things that players expect and want from their mmo.
This was a good column and I wish it had went deeper into the facts of what ToR is missing.
? You're of course wrong. SWTOR has Operations, flashpoints, open world pvp, War zones and crafting, all the things that you'll also see in other MMO's, or at least some of those features (LotrO has no open world pvp). Now if you don't know what themepark MMO gameplay is anymore or have grown tired of themepark MMO's, that's your problem.
For people who actually still enjoy themepark MMO's, SWTOR will have all the usual MMO endgame features that can be expected in a themepark MMO.
You mean "modern" themepark MMO's, because once upon a time theme park MMO"s had endgame alternates to the current model.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
yup agree, its common sense. If you are a Star wars fan, or indeed still love themepark, then SWTOR is going to be great. If you love Star Wars but are sick to death of themepark, then you will love the levelling experience and maybe so far into the end-game to get a bit off closure before you alt a bit but you will get sick of it. Resonable positition for a game to market for imo.
Re comments above:
Screw their story. If I want to passively observe someone else's story I will watch a movie or read a book as you attempt to analogize.
Your missing the point, if you can immerse yourself in the story then it is no different than a book. Personally the game doesnt do it for me.
RE the highlighted: This is far from universal or even majority I'd say. I've seen episodes 4, 5 and 6 over 400+ times each and can pretty much say the script right along with the movies. My toy collection as a child consisted of G.I.Joes and Star Wars figures. I've spent more hours on "theforce.net" such that I could easily obtain a History degree in SW lore if such a course was legitimately offered.
I'm a fan of the Star Wars Universe. I'm sick of themeparks (been MMO gaming since 1997 and when themeparks are predominantly all that has been offered, one should be able to see why someone else is "sick" of them: It's like eating the same thin everyday for 14 years). Won't be playing this game.
If it were Sandbox, I'd try it. Same if it were a MMORTS, MMOFPS or a single player RPG with no monthly fee.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I am one of the Star Wars fans that would love to get hooked by the game, but what I have seen so far just isn't appealing enough
I'm getting to a point where if it was a 100% single player game just with other players in the world I might be interested, but as it stands the game just doesn't fit my Star Wars MMO desires. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I hope the people who pick the game up enjoy it, but I really wish they'd back up and realize we are not all like them.
Edit: by the way, any article about SWTOR (or any game still in development) is going to be an opinion piece unless it just rattles off the known information about the game...
I agree 100% with Isabelle. I'm also a Star Wars fan. And I started excited in the early days of development. But as the hype wave grew, I found my enthusiasm waning. Theres also a number of since announced features which I am dubious over. I will still try it, but I'm definitely not pre-ordering.
I'm getting to a point where if it was a 100% single player game just with other players in the world I might be interested, but as it stands the game just doesn't fit my Star Wars MMO desires. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I hope the people who pick the game up enjoy it, but I really wish they'd back up and realize we are not all like them.
Personally I think it's the crowd that dislikes themepark MMO's or that's burnt out on themepark MMO gameplay that actually has a problem realising that not everyone hates/dislikes themepark MMO gameplay like they do. many of the SWTOR fans that post here are perfectly aware that SWTOR won't satisfy sandbox fans and other jaded MMO vets who can't stomach traditional themepark gameplay anymore, and they're fine with it that those ppl don't have the same gaming taste. They're not fine if people keep repeating over and over and over again that they dislike this or that feature or dislike/hate SWTOR for not being what they wanted it to be, instead of moving on. Such behavior steers towards needless, unconstructive whining .
Edit: by the way, any article about SWTOR (or any game still in development) is going to be an opinion piece unless it just rattles off the known information about the game...
Any piece that is not a news update but a personal reflection about a topic is an opinion piece, that said, I have seen more thorough and more informed ones than just a 'I don't like this' blurt
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The best thing people can do with this game is judge it for what it is...and NOT for what the hype machine has made it out to be. If everyone is expecting the best MMO in the history of the planet, you are going to be dissapointed now matter what Bioware gives you. If your expecting Everquest or WoW with a star wars skin, you might also be REALLY dissapointed.
This is Bioware's first MMO and they have already said its a story based MMO. It is not going to appeal to everyone just by the nature of it being a story based MMO. People need to take a deep breath and relax a little, this is not going to change the industry or anything but it may well be a finely crafted MMO.
I'd like to play it but I am certainly not losing any sleep over it. The price of $59.99 is $10 more than the average PC game but the same price as an xbox or ps3 game, so that isn't a deal breaker. They charge more than $15 a month though and I might take issue with it.
I'm getting to a point where if it was a 100% single player game just with other players in the world I might be interested, but as it stands the game just doesn't fit my Star Wars MMO desires. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I hope the people who pick the game up enjoy it, but I really wish they'd back up and realize we are not all like them.
Personally I think it's the crowd that dislikes themepark MMO's or that's burnt out on themepark MMO gameplay that actually has a problem realising that not everyone hates/dislikes themepark MMO gameplay like they do. many of the SWTOR fans that post here are perfectly aware that SWTOR won't satisfy sandbox fans and other jaded MMO vets who can't stomach traditional themepark gameplay anymore, and they're fine with it that those ppl don't have the same gaming taste. They're not fine if people keep repeating over and over and over again that they dislike this or that feature or dislike/hate SWTOR for not being what they wanted it to be, instead of moving on. Such behavior steers towards needless, unconstructive whining .
Edit: by the way, any article about SWTOR (or any game still in development) is going to be an opinion piece unless it just rattles off the known information about the game...
Any piece that is not a news update but a personal reflection about a topic is an opinion piece, that said, I have seen more thorough and more informed ones than just a 'I don't like this' blurt
I think its more a sense that people just don't want to like things because the industry has an overabundance of themepark gameplay, and at first, you would think its fine to not like something because the industry is "flooded" with a particular style.... but then, you take notice. Its not that the industry is flooded so much as its that its SWTOR that is being talked about here.
We hear it here more than anywhere else, because so many people here believe "sandbox" titles will be the future, and have always been the "future" ever since that style of gameplay failed to catch on many years ago.
I like sandbox games, but I'm not going to be angry at BioWare because SWTOR isn't one, or because yet one more year goes by with no awesome sandbox titles to look forward to.
Its not about sandbox games anymore, its not about the feature list either. Its about popularity and this community. The more popular something is, the more people will want to attack it. It appears everyone here has selected their underdogs of choice here, and hold BioWare responsible for everything they aren't getting in the industry today.
I'd hope people would eventually grow out of it, but it seems the longer it is without them getting exactly what they want, the more entrenched they are believing nothing will ever be good enough.
I'm getting to a point where if it was a 100% single player game just with other players in the world I might be interested, but as it stands the game just doesn't fit my Star Wars MMO desires. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I hope the people who pick the game up enjoy it, but I really wish they'd back up and realize we are not all like them.
Personally I think it's the crowd that dislikes themepark MMO's or that's burnt out on themepark MMO gameplay that actually has a problem realising that not everyone hates/dislikes themepark MMO gameplay like they do. many of the SWTOR fans that post here are perfectly aware that SWTOR won't satisfy sandbox fans and other jaded MMO vets who can't stomach traditional themepark gameplay anymore, and they're fine with it that those ppl don't have the same gaming taste. They're not fine if people keep repeating over and over and over again that they dislike this or that feature or dislike/hate SWTOR for not being what they wanted it to be, instead of moving on. Such behavior steers towards needless, unconstructive whining .
Edit: by the way, any article about SWTOR (or any game still in development) is going to be an opinion piece unless it just rattles off the known information about the game...
Any piece that is not a news update but a personal reflection about a topic is an opinion piece, that said, I have seen more thorough and more informed ones than just a 'I don't like this' blurt
I think its more a sense that people just don't want to like things because the industry has an overabundance of themepark gameplay, and at first, you would think its fine to not like something because the industry is "flooded" with a particular style.... but then, you take notice. Its not that the industry is flooded so much as its that its SWTOR that is being talked about here.
We hear it here more than anywhere else, because so many people here believe "sandbox" titles will be the future, and have always been the "future" ever since that style of gameplay failed to catch on many years ago.
I like sandbox games, but I'm not going to be angry at BioWare because SWTOR isn't one, or because yet one more year goes by with no awesome sandbox titles to look forward to.
Its not about sandbox games anymore, its not about the feature list either. Its about popularity and this community. The more popular something is, the more people will want to attack it. It appears everyone here has selected their underdogs of choice here, and hold BioWare responsible for everything they aren't getting in the industry today.
I'd hope people would eventually grow out of it, but it seems the longer it is without them getting exactly what they want, the more entrenched they are believing nothing will ever be good enough.
I'll like a game if I like it. Of course I can't speak for others, but I know that what the industry is doing has little impact on what I like. I find it funny, one of the only recent games I've enjoyed is STO - trust me there are lots of problems with that game, and talk about people loving to hate something, but I happen to enjoy it. I understand that some people don't and as long as the criticism is mature I don't mind seeing it (that really goes for any game though).
I don't care if a game is sandbox or themepark per se, some themeparks are fun (STO is pretty much a themepark), some sandboxes are fun, but my opinion of the game has to do with if the features seem to please my tastes. I'm not going to pout about it when they don't, I don't go on the SWTOR forums and troll because I hate the game (I don't hate it, just not my game).
But it seems like some people would like to see and dislike for SWTOR squashed. Sorry if you get tired of people saying they dislike it, I can pick any game forum on this site, go there and see a plethora of negative feedback. Heck I had a chuckle at the person posting the other day about how Vanguard getting a patch means nothing and the game is dead. I mean if the game is dead why do you care what other's think or want to do.
I'm not hear to convience people not to play SWTOR, but if they post a topic like "What do you think about X feature in SWTOR" or "Will SWTOR be a roleplayer's dream". I'm going to comment and give my opinon, sometimes it will be negative, sometimes postive. Personally I love that SWTOR is adding companions for instance, its a feature more MMO's need, but it's not enough for me to want to play it or get excited about it.
I'm getting to a point where if it was a 100% single player game just with other players in the world I might be interested, but as it stands the game just doesn't fit my Star Wars MMO desires. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I hope the people who pick the game up enjoy it, but I really wish they'd back up and realize we are not all like them.
Personally I think it's the crowd that dislikes themepark MMO's or that's burnt out on themepark MMO gameplay that actually has a problem realising that not everyone hates/dislikes themepark MMO gameplay like they do. many of the SWTOR fans that post here are perfectly aware that SWTOR won't satisfy sandbox fans and other jaded MMO vets who can't stomach traditional themepark gameplay anymore, and they're fine with it that those ppl don't have the same gaming taste. They're not fine if people keep repeating over and over and over again that they dislike this or that feature or dislike/hate SWTOR for not being what they wanted it to be, instead of moving on. Such behavior steers towards needless, unconstructive whining .
Edit: by the way, any article about SWTOR (or any game still in development) is going to be an opinion piece unless it just rattles off the known information about the game...
Any piece that is not a news update but a personal reflection about a topic is an opinion piece, that said, I have seen more thorough and more informed ones than just a 'I don't like this' blurt
I think its more a sense that people just don't want to like things because the industry has an overabundance of themepark gameplay, and at first, you would think its fine to not like something because the industry is "flooded" with a particular style.... but then, you take notice. Its not that the industry is flooded so much as its that its SWTOR that is being talked about here.
We hear it here more than anywhere else, because so many people here believe "sandbox" titles will be the future, and have always been the "future" ever since that style of gameplay failed to catch on many years ago.
I like sandbox games, but I'm not going to be angry at BioWare because SWTOR isn't one, or because yet one more year goes by with no awesome sandbox titles to look forward to.
Its not about sandbox games anymore, its not about the feature list either. Its about popularity and this community. The more popular something is, the more people will want to attack it. It appears everyone here has selected their underdogs of choice here, and hold BioWare responsible for everything they aren't getting in the industry today.
I'd hope people would eventually grow out of it, but it seems the longer it is without them getting exactly what they want, the more entrenched they are believing nothing will ever be good enough.
I like Themepark gameplay, at least the leveling portion of it. It's when you get to the end game that it gets boring for me. Rift had a really good leveling game, but the end game was pretty standard raid grind...I couldn't do it. I might try it again when the solo and duo dungeons come out though.
I'll buy and play SW:ToR, but once I hit the level cap, if it's a raid grind at the end game, I'll probably move on to something else. It's too early to say if that's all the game will have for max level players.
All in all, I'm not really all that excited for the game...I can wait for it to come out.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Pointless point is pointless, basically this point went full retard IMO. Being an SWG vet has nothing to do with it, I loved galaxies still have very fond memories of it, I'm not excited about TOR but I am interested in it. Themepark or not. As are a significant amount of the SWG Bloodfin vets I played with from multiple guilds both IMP and REB/
I'm not going to jump on this ever growing bandwagon of cliche hate for themeparks. I'll give anything a chance, as long as it interests me. That's what having an open mind is about, trying before you judge. Labeling it as full retard because you played galaxies is just ridiculously closed minded, and just reinforces the point someone like Maverick makes daily, as it shows the mentality of those making these comments.
These posters have become caricatures and nothing more.
Now this is the kind of posting that I like and respect, even if I might not agree with the opinion or taste of such a poster (speaking in general, not regarding the post above): it's someone who has a preference in gaming, but is still able to be openminded or see past his own viewpoint and preferences, without resorting to any extreme and needless 'black & white' reasoning and posturing. Mature, sensible.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
In fact, your article pretty much sums up my feelings about it perfectly... only I won't be playing it at launch, either.
The more hype I hear for a game, the more "meh" I get as well.
I'm also not a fan of what I consider nothing short of arrogance from BioWare in - as you so accurately put it - presuming to tell me "what's good" or "what I will enjoy".
I am interested in MMORPGs as open, virtual worlds where gameplay takes place against a backdrop, or setting... Not one through which I am guided neatly along through deliberate storylines, giving me the "illusion" of choice.
I say illusion of choice because I don't get a real choice, do I? I have options that the writers and designers have already set out for me, with the outcomes decided long before I even get to that branch in the storyline. I get to choose "A", "B" or "C". What if my actual choice would have been something else entirely? Whoops... no option "D" for that.
I'd sooner just avoid the whole phony "player choice" setup in this case and go off to do something entirely of my own whim... create my own story, which will be far more interesting (to me), far more memorable and much more personal than anything the best MMO writer could dream up.
BioWare's approach works great in single-player narrative. I'm not convinced, despite all their hemming and hawing to the contrary, that it will be well suited to a MMORPG.
It sounds more like ToR will be a single player, "Choose Your Own Adventure" style affair - much like their offline titles - where you happen to be online talking and interacting with other players.
Thanks, but no thanks.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I'm getting to a point where if it was a 100% single player game just with other players in the world I might be interested, but as it stands the game just doesn't fit my Star Wars MMO desires. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I hope the people who pick the game up enjoy it, but I really wish they'd back up and realize we are not all like them.
Personally I think it's the crowd that dislikes themepark MMO's or that's burnt out on themepark MMO gameplay that actually has a problem realising that not everyone hates/dislikes themepark MMO gameplay like they do. many of the SWTOR fans that post here are perfectly aware that SWTOR won't satisfy sandbox fans and other jaded MMO vets who can't stomach traditional themepark gameplay anymore, and they're fine with it that those ppl don't have the same gaming taste. They're not fine if people keep repeating over and over and over again that they dislike this or that feature or dislike/hate SWTOR for not being what they wanted it to be, instead of moving on. Such behavior steers towards needless, unconstructive whining .
Edit: by the way, any article about SWTOR (or any game still in development) is going to be an opinion piece unless it just rattles off the known information about the game...
Any piece that is not a news update but a personal reflection about a topic is an opinion piece, that said, I have seen more thorough and more informed ones than just a 'I don't like this' blurt
I think its more a sense that people just don't want to like things because the industry has an overabundance of themepark gameplay, and at first, you would think its fine to not like something because the industry is "flooded" with a particular style.... but then, you take notice. Its not that the industry is flooded so much as its that its SWTOR that is being talked about here.
We hear it here more than anywhere else, because so many people here believe "sandbox" titles will be the future, and have always been the "future" ever since that style of gameplay failed to catch on many years ago.
I like sandbox games, but I'm not going to be angry at BioWare because SWTOR isn't one, or because yet one more year goes by with no awesome sandbox titles to look forward to.
Its not about sandbox games anymore, its not about the feature list either. Its about popularity and this community. The more popular something is, the more people will want to attack it. It appears everyone here has selected their underdogs of choice here, and hold BioWare responsible for everything they aren't getting in the industry today.
I'd hope people would eventually grow out of it, but it seems the longer it is without them getting exactly what they want, the more entrenched they are believing nothing will ever be good enough.
I'll like a game if I like it. Of course I can't speak for others, but I know that what the industry is doing has little impact on what I like. I find it funny, one of the only recent games I've enjoyed is STO - trust me there are lots of problems with that game, and talk about people loving to hate something, but I happen to enjoy it. I understand that some people don't and as long as the criticism is mature I don't mind seeing it (that really goes for any game though).
I don't care if a game is sandbox or themepark per se, some themeparks are fun (STO is pretty much a themepark), some sandboxes are fun, but my opinion of the game has to do with if the features seem to please my tastes. I'm not going to pout about it when they don't, I don't go on the SWTOR forums and troll because I hate the game (I don't hate it, just not my game).
But it seems like some people would like to see and dislike for SWTOR squashed. Sorry if you get tired of people saying they dislike it, I can pick any game forum on this site, go there and see a plethora of negative feedback. Heck I had a chuckle at the person posting the other day about how Vanguard getting a patch means nothing and the game is dead. I mean if the game is dead why do you care what other's think or want to do.
I'm not hear to convience people not to play SWTOR, but if they post a topic like "What do you think about X feature in SWTOR" or "Will SWTOR be a roleplayer's dream". I'm going to comment and give my opinon, sometimes it will be negative, sometimes postive. Personally I love that SWTOR is adding companions for instance, its a feature more MMO's need, but it's not enough for me to want to play it or get excited about it.
My post was more of a general statement, not so much directed at you. People decide not to like something, thats fine... so many people here complain just for the sake of complaining. They do it in every thread about the same topics day in and day out.
I don't personally care whether they buy these games or not, but they always end up buying them, and then once they're tired of them, they come back and talk about how terrible it was playing it for those (insert ridiculous number here) months.
If Isabelle really feels the way she feels, cool, whatever, I'm sure there will be plenty of other games out there she'll be "excited" about. It just so happens that this particular article is preaching to the choir right now, simply because there are just way too many people who can't be satiated. Nothing will ever be what everyone wants, all the time. Its just here, people can't let just one thing go, if they've said it once, they've said it a thousand times... literally, in thread, after thread, after thread.. so much so, this article could have been just copied and pasted from any one of the SWTOR threads because the same people write this exact article in every thread regarding SWTOR since the first gameplay videos surfaced. (and likely before that).
Comments
I'm a huge Star Wars nerd to the extent of reading Wookiepedia until I get hungry or tired and realize I just spend several hours reading it and TOR doesn't excite me.
Something just seems off about it. Maybe it's the combat or animation style or being so similair to WoW or a tube shooter for space combat. Probably a combination of those factors.
yep i am waiting on mass effect 3 looks awsome i cant wait :)and march 6 of 2012 is my birthday ^_^. greatest birthday gift ever
.....
I kind of figure it to be like that scene in Who Framed Roger Rabbit, at the end, where Valiant is fighting Judge Doom.
People start playing MMO's and get more involved in these communities where they have fun, simply enough. They join the forums here to enjoy their time talking about something new and exciting to them... then suddenly, they have glue on their hands and feet and are stuck to a steamroller as it smashes them flat.
Unfortunately, they don't die, they just bounce back twice as crazy and demented as ever.
Not... attacking Ysh at all in this scenario.
This is an article? I felt like it was a forum post. Great writing! /sarcasm off
This article is virtually indistinguishable from the many many forum posts made over the last few years from disgruntled SWG vets who are upset that TOR isn't going to be SWG2. How many times do we have to hear this exact argument? And now it gets a spot on the front page as a featured article?
This is nothing new... clearly TOR won't be for everyone. For those of you who can't accept a Star Wars MMORPG idea other than an SWG-style sandobx, all I can say is why are you still bothering to even follow the game? You know it isn't going to be what you want it to be. We've known for YEARS now exactly what this game is going to be. This article just shows the clear sandbox bias of this site and its writers and it is kind of messed up that a whiney ant-TOR rant like this gets posted as an article on this site.
Do we see articles about how un-interested the MMMORPG.com staff is about any other games coming out? I haven't seen any articles about why GW2 sucks for instance... I know this is an opinion piece, but still it seems like it should be a post in the TOR forum rather than an article on the front page. Just my two cents...
I am very excited for SWToR, however, as with any new MMO, I expect there to be severe whining and nerd rage when it actually comes out, no matter how good it is. This is the internet after all and the voices of the complainers and the never satisfied are always the loudest.
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC
Thanks!
? You're of course wrong. SWTOR has Operations, flashpoints, open world pvp, War zones and crafting, all the things that you'll also see in other MMO's, or at least some of those features (LotrO has no open world pvp). Now if you don't know what themepark MMO gameplay is anymore or have grown tired of themepark MMO's, that's your problem.
For people who actually still enjoy themepark MMO's, SWTOR will have all the usual MMO endgame features that can be expected in a themepark MMO.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm not excited either. Granted, I've never really been into the SW films. I really did enjoy early SWG - not for the SW but for its community and gameplay elements. It did some things very right and did some things very wrong. But it did foster a very fun and intriguing virtual world.
As a MMO, I'm just expecting it to be another WoW, LotRO, or Rift.... essentially the same old same old but with Bioware's narrative flourishes and some unique nuances to accomodate that. However, I'm tired of "that" MMO and even with a stronger emphasis on story, I don't think "that" MMO will intrigue me for very long. I think for players that still enjoy those MMO trappings that WoW made ever so popular, I have a strong feeling they'll find SWTOR extremely exciting.
yup agree, its common sense. If you are a Star wars fan, or indeed still love themepark, then SWTOR is going to be great. If you love Star Wars but are sick to death of themepark, then you will love the levelling experience and maybe so far into the end-game to get a bit off closure before you alt a bit but you will get sick of it. Resonable positition for a game to market for imo.
Re comments above:
Screw their story. If I want to passively observe someone else's story I will watch a movie or read a book as you attempt to analogize.
Your missing the point, if you can immerse yourself in the story then it is no different than a book. Personally the game doesnt do it for me.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
You mean "modern" themepark MMO's, because once upon a time theme park MMO"s had endgame alternates to the current model.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
RE the highlighted: This is far from universal or even majority I'd say. I've seen episodes 4, 5 and 6 over 400+ times each and can pretty much say the script right along with the movies. My toy collection as a child consisted of G.I.Joes and Star Wars figures. I've spent more hours on "theforce.net" such that I could easily obtain a History degree in SW lore if such a course was legitimately offered.
I'm a fan of the Star Wars Universe. I'm sick of themeparks (been MMO gaming since 1997 and when themeparks are predominantly all that has been offered, one should be able to see why someone else is "sick" of them: It's like eating the same thin everyday for 14 years). Won't be playing this game.
If it were Sandbox, I'd try it. Same if it were a MMORTS, MMOFPS or a single player RPG with no monthly fee.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I am one of the Star Wars fans that would love to get hooked by the game, but what I have seen so far just isn't appealing enough
I'm getting to a point where if it was a 100% single player game just with other players in the world I might be interested, but as it stands the game just doesn't fit my Star Wars MMO desires. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I hope the people who pick the game up enjoy it, but I really wish they'd back up and realize we are not all like them.
Edit: by the way, any article about SWTOR (or any game still in development) is going to be an opinion piece unless it just rattles off the known information about the game...
I agree 100% with Isabelle. I'm also a Star Wars fan. And I started excited in the early days of development. But as the hype wave grew, I found my enthusiasm waning. Theres also a number of since announced features which I am dubious over. I will still try it, but I'm definitely not pre-ordering.
Any piece that is not a news update but a personal reflection about a topic is an opinion piece, that said, I have seen more thorough and more informed ones than just a 'I don't like this' blurt
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The best thing people can do with this game is judge it for what it is...and NOT for what the hype machine has made it out to be. If everyone is expecting the best MMO in the history of the planet, you are going to be dissapointed now matter what Bioware gives you. If your expecting Everquest or WoW with a star wars skin, you might also be REALLY dissapointed.
This is Bioware's first MMO and they have already said its a story based MMO. It is not going to appeal to everyone just by the nature of it being a story based MMO. People need to take a deep breath and relax a little, this is not going to change the industry or anything but it may well be a finely crafted MMO.
I'd like to play it but I am certainly not losing any sleep over it. The price of $59.99 is $10 more than the average PC game but the same price as an xbox or ps3 game, so that isn't a deal breaker. They charge more than $15 a month though and I might take issue with it.
I think its more a sense that people just don't want to like things because the industry has an overabundance of themepark gameplay, and at first, you would think its fine to not like something because the industry is "flooded" with a particular style.... but then, you take notice. Its not that the industry is flooded so much as its that its SWTOR that is being talked about here.
We hear it here more than anywhere else, because so many people here believe "sandbox" titles will be the future, and have always been the "future" ever since that style of gameplay failed to catch on many years ago.
I like sandbox games, but I'm not going to be angry at BioWare because SWTOR isn't one, or because yet one more year goes by with no awesome sandbox titles to look forward to.
Its not about sandbox games anymore, its not about the feature list either. Its about popularity and this community. The more popular something is, the more people will want to attack it. It appears everyone here has selected their underdogs of choice here, and hold BioWare responsible for everything they aren't getting in the industry today.
I'd hope people would eventually grow out of it, but it seems the longer it is without them getting exactly what they want, the more entrenched they are believing nothing will ever be good enough.
I'll like a game if I like it. Of course I can't speak for others, but I know that what the industry is doing has little impact on what I like. I find it funny, one of the only recent games I've enjoyed is STO - trust me there are lots of problems with that game, and talk about people loving to hate something, but I happen to enjoy it. I understand that some people don't and as long as the criticism is mature I don't mind seeing it (that really goes for any game though).
I don't care if a game is sandbox or themepark per se, some themeparks are fun (STO is pretty much a themepark), some sandboxes are fun, but my opinion of the game has to do with if the features seem to please my tastes. I'm not going to pout about it when they don't, I don't go on the SWTOR forums and troll because I hate the game (I don't hate it, just not my game).
But it seems like some people would like to see and dislike for SWTOR squashed. Sorry if you get tired of people saying they dislike it, I can pick any game forum on this site, go there and see a plethora of negative feedback. Heck I had a chuckle at the person posting the other day about how Vanguard getting a patch means nothing and the game is dead. I mean if the game is dead why do you care what other's think or want to do.
I'm not hear to convience people not to play SWTOR, but if they post a topic like "What do you think about X feature in SWTOR" or "Will SWTOR be a roleplayer's dream". I'm going to comment and give my opinon, sometimes it will be negative, sometimes postive. Personally I love that SWTOR is adding companions for instance, its a feature more MMO's need, but it's not enough for me to want to play it or get excited about it.
It excites me.
Move on nothing to see here.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Let's try to stay on topic and refrain from "labeling" other users and resorting to personal arguments.
I like Themepark gameplay, at least the leveling portion of it. It's when you get to the end game that it gets boring for me. Rift had a really good leveling game, but the end game was pretty standard raid grind...I couldn't do it. I might try it again when the solo and duo dungeons come out though.
I'll buy and play SW:ToR, but once I hit the level cap, if it's a raid grind at the end game, I'll probably move on to something else. It's too early to say if that's all the game will have for max level players.
All in all, I'm not really all that excited for the game...I can wait for it to come out.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Now this is the kind of posting that I like and respect, even if I might not agree with the opinion or taste of such a poster (speaking in general, not regarding the post above): it's someone who has a preference in gaming, but is still able to be openminded or see past his own viewpoint and preferences, without resorting to any extreme and needless 'black & white' reasoning and posturing. Mature, sensible.
Respect
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You're definitely not the only one, Isabelle.
In fact, your article pretty much sums up my feelings about it perfectly... only I won't be playing it at launch, either.
The more hype I hear for a game, the more "meh" I get as well.
I'm also not a fan of what I consider nothing short of arrogance from BioWare in - as you so accurately put it - presuming to tell me "what's good" or "what I will enjoy".
I am interested in MMORPGs as open, virtual worlds where gameplay takes place against a backdrop, or setting... Not one through which I am guided neatly along through deliberate storylines, giving me the "illusion" of choice.
I say illusion of choice because I don't get a real choice, do I? I have options that the writers and designers have already set out for me, with the outcomes decided long before I even get to that branch in the storyline. I get to choose "A", "B" or "C". What if my actual choice would have been something else entirely? Whoops... no option "D" for that.
I'd sooner just avoid the whole phony "player choice" setup in this case and go off to do something entirely of my own whim... create my own story, which will be far more interesting (to me), far more memorable and much more personal than anything the best MMO writer could dream up.
BioWare's approach works great in single-player narrative. I'm not convinced, despite all their hemming and hawing to the contrary, that it will be well suited to a MMORPG.
It sounds more like ToR will be a single player, "Choose Your Own Adventure" style affair - much like their offline titles - where you happen to be online talking and interacting with other players.
Thanks, but no thanks.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
My post was more of a general statement, not so much directed at you. People decide not to like something, thats fine... so many people here complain just for the sake of complaining. They do it in every thread about the same topics day in and day out.
I don't personally care whether they buy these games or not, but they always end up buying them, and then once they're tired of them, they come back and talk about how terrible it was playing it for those (insert ridiculous number here) months.
If Isabelle really feels the way she feels, cool, whatever, I'm sure there will be plenty of other games out there she'll be "excited" about. It just so happens that this particular article is preaching to the choir right now, simply because there are just way too many people who can't be satiated. Nothing will ever be what everyone wants, all the time. Its just here, people can't let just one thing go, if they've said it once, they've said it a thousand times... literally, in thread, after thread, after thread.. so much so, this article could have been just copied and pasted from any one of the SWTOR threads because the same people write this exact article in every thread regarding SWTOR since the first gameplay videos surfaced. (and likely before that).