Dang Dang and Dang now we have a winner! See the reason I am labeling Tor as a "story driven solo game with others players" is I am labeling games like World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, War...GW 2 the same way.
I think this is a good example, one that says it all.
I suspect a lot of people who keep bashing SWTOR with odd arguments are people who actually have grown sick or burnt out on traditional themepark MMO gameplay in general. They don't care about SWTOR because they have stopped caring about themepark MMO's in general, in fact I suspect that for some people that jadedness runs even deeper and they'll find themselves be bored pretty quickly in other types of MMO's as well, still unable to enjoy MMO's as much as they used to, but only time will tell.
Originally posted by zonzai
Before you've had a chance to play a game (any game) all you can really do is look at the available information. If that doesn't excite you that's fine. If it does that's fine too. Personally I get at least a little bit excited whenever I hear about any new MMO. If you can't get excited about all of them at least a little bit, perhaps it is time to find a new hobby, or at least take a break for a while.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Unlike the OP it's felt like I had lost my capacity for wonder and frothing excitement for MMOs. Everything after EQ has just kind of been slowly downhill. The MMO worlds didn't seem to have the same depth, lore, and story that even the text MMOs had when I was playing them at 11 years old on AOL. Every MMO has been kinda "blah."
It's the same old story. Hit Things With Stick Until You Reach Top Level!! SWtOR pops out to me because multiplayer interactive story is finally back in MMOs. It was gone for a minute when MMOs went from text to 3d graphics but now story immersion is finally back. I don't even care about the hype around this game or any upcoming MMO. I'm just interested in seeing if they actually managed to get the story part right and make an MMO that's not just "Hit Things with Stick Til Level 50." Or "Hit Things with Stick in Complex Ways Til Level 50." Or "Hit Things with Stick with Teamwork to Grind Reputation AT Level 50."
I don't see what about SWtOR is single player game? The story elements natively support multiplayer gameplay. Not to mention even most current MMOs allow players to go solo all the way to max level if they want. I even played Dark Age of Camelot solo for a while.
If this was a forum post instead of an article, people would have complained about trolling from the first page. Even excusing this faux news item as an editorial piece, it fails to make a point against SWTOR that couldn't be made against many other games in the genre. In effect, we have one person's poorly defended prejudices presented as content.
To quote the article, this website makes me feel "meh".
This article is a great example of how to pander to your audience.
First price tag. It's the same price as any Bioware game. So I must missing something here.
Second hype. It's Bioware and Star Wars of course there is going to be hype. Did you want them to make a different game just so there isn't so much hype? I guess Bioware is too big a studio to make an mmo in your opinion, because they generate too much hype.
Third SWG. Hurray, another bitter SWG vet that lets their bitterness get in the way of any logic or reason. There can't be another Star Wars game because SOE destroyed the first one in your opinion I guess.
In the end you sound like one of the bitter, jaded mmo- burnouts who frequent this sight. Trolling the forums of every game about to release screaming "Needs MOAR Sandbox!!". As if we don't have enough failed sandboxes out there that nobody plays or cares about.
Yeah that describes me perfectly. Generally speakling after several notable disappointments the past few years my ability to get excited about an MMO before it launches has been severely diminished if not outright killed. And specifically I have the same reservations about playing what seems like a singleplayer rpg with a faux-mmo skin on top of it.
Also I have vague reservations about how I feel about a Star Wars game in which jedi/sith are common. Not to mention the possibility that a game with many jedi/sith may be pure emo-bait.
So after it launches I'll happily do a free trial and depending on how I like it and the general response I'll get it.
TOR not being SWG is one of the reasons I'm looking forward to it.
SWG was a massive failure to me.
SWG wasn't the masive failure, Sony Online Entertainment was. They failed to follow the "If it aint broke don't fix it" rule.
You must not have played SWG before the CU and NGE updates/changes that destroyed the game and took a largely non-linear game and forced it to be linear (also deleted 70-80%% of the possible classes). If you didn't do a little research, the game was amazing before all of that. By far one of the best most indepth player driven skill-based mmorpgs I had every played.
(and before people flame me without reading I said *one of the best*, lots of other games that are more indepth have came out since then.)
Many felt shocked and betrayed once they saw that SW:TOR was the themepark type MMO that BioWare stated it was from the start.
I don't think it's the fact that it's a themepark. It's the fact that it's exactly the same themepark we've been playing since 2004.
Aside from better storytelling, SWTOR is doing NOTHING new. Literally.
When we heard BioWare say "We're adding a fourth pillar to the MMO" we didn't expect them to follow up with "and the other three pillars we are just going to copy/paste from WoW".
Many felt shocked and betrayed once they saw that SW:TOR was the themepark type MMO that BioWare stated it was from the start.
I don't think it's the fact that it's a themepark. It's the fact that it's exactly the same themepark we've been playing since 2004.
Aside from better storytelling, SWTOR is doing NOTHING new. Literally.
When we heard BioWare say "We're adding a fourth pillar to the MMO" we didn't expect them to follow up with "and the other three pillars we are just going to copy/paste from WoW".
You said "we" instead of "you". Didn't know you spoke for everybody who is going to purchase the game.
Just off the top of my head.
-Companion characters
-Crafting System
-Legacy System
I think Bioware is being more innovative than you give them credit for.
You said "we" instead of "you". Didn't know you spoke for everybody who is going to purchase the game.
Just off the top of my head.
-Companion characters
-Crafting System
-Legacy System
I think Bioware is being more innovative than you give them credit for.
It's pretty obvious that when I say "We" I mean everyone who feels this way, not everyone waiting on the game.
1. Companions work exactly the same as any other MMO pet, it just happens that they have some Mass Effect-like dialogue in SOME dialogue scenes and more impact on your STORY. When it comes to actual MECHANICS they work EXACTLY the same as any other MMO pet.
2. The crafting system works exactly the same as WoW except that resource gathering is an automated process instead of a manual process. It won't significantly alter the crafting experience.
3. Yes, it's neat new feature but it isn't a gameplay mechanic. All it does is unlocks some options for your next toon, it doesn't affect how you actually play the game.
You might be able to argue that Story alone is innovation enough, which might or not be true, but aside from that there's isn't much for SWTOR to claim innovation.
You're generally right, I also think most TOR haters are simply burnt out on the themepark genre. It's true for me, that's for sure.
Why is that though? How can someone become burnt out by a genre?
Thousands and thousands of hours of playing. It's not just MMO related, I know some people who've played shooter games online for extravagant amounts of hours, but after a year or 2, 3, just had enough of it, they got tired of it and burnt out on it, it just wasn't fun to them anymore. Taking a break or doing something else, play other games more, helped to alleviate that a bit.
IMO, the explanation is lack of innovation. Nowhere does it say that themepark games need to have the exact same structure and format.
The last 3 MMOs I've played longer than a week (WoW, Rift and now AoC), all have the exact same format:
It's gotten to the point where, regardless of the name of game, you just feel like you're playing the same thing over and over.
There's nothing wrong with themeparks per se, but if they all function in the exact same way, it's not surprising people are getting bored.
I wonder though if it's just themepark MMO's that (some) people are bored of, after all, EQ had the same endgame content, a form of raiding and such. In fact, I saw the exact same symptoms that I see now with a number of ppl who have grown sick and tired of themepark MMO's, with some people in EQ already: after a year or so, EQ and activities in EQ just didn't appeal to them anymore, they didn't have fun anymore, some gameplay aspects even started them to heavily dislike them.
So, maybe a different kind of themepark MMO will rekindle that joy in MMO gaming again, but maybe even a more drastic change of scenery is needed for some, I think it all depends on how deep the aversion or burn out runs for each person. For some people it'll already be enough if the MMO isn't WoW but another AAA themepark MMO, while for others all themepark MMO's are off limits, even hybrid MMO's like AA, and for some it may even mean that only a full break from all MMO's for a long while can revive that MMO gaming enjoyment again.
Originally posted by fundayz
It's pretty obvious that when I say "We" I mean everyone who feels this way, not everyone waiting on the game.
1. Companions work exactly the same as any other MMO pet, it just happens that they have some Mass Effect-like dialogue in SOME dialogue scenes and more impact on your STORY. When it comes to actual MECHANICS they work EXACTLY the same as any other MMO pet.
If you mean regarding combat, then yes, Companions are smart pets, just like your companions in Mass Effect or DA or GW could be considered pets. However, in contrast to pets Companions also participate in quest storylines, change their stance based on your quest decisions, help you with gathering on the field, do crafting and are sent on crew missions, and can replace a team member to fill out the group when needed, which all in all is a hell of a lot more than you saw any pet do in any other MMO.
2. The crafting system works exactly the same as WoW except that resource gathering is an automated process instead of a manual process. It won't significantly alter the crafting experience.
Wrong again. You can do crafting while you're doing other things like questing and pvp, you can even craft while offline, which is a hell of a difference with current situations, and your item cragting upgrade process works differently than seen in all other (themepark) MMO's. Besides that, Crew Skills is so much more than just crafting and gathering.
You might be able to argue that Story alone is innovation enough, which might or not be true, but aside from that there's isn't much for SWTOR to claim innovation.
If you're looking for revolutionary innovation, then sure, SWTOR isn't what you're looking for, but in its Companion system, story quest revamp, Crew Skills, cover system and a host of little innovations and improvements it has enough change to make SWTOR distinctive of its own.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
1) I really got bored with KOTOR and never bothered finishing it
2) I'm not really big into the fan-fiction past of the Star Wars films. If it's not in the films, it's fan fiction as far as I'm concerned. Even Lucas describes the extended universe as a parallel one to his own. I'd be more excited if it at least occurred some time after ROTJ.
3) Space combat on rails - no thanks
4) It's not different enough from other Theme Park MMOs. Why start from scratch and subscribe to a game that appears to just be WoW in space.
I like the art direction and think it will be very successful, but it just doesn't feel revolutionary enough to me. It's more of a game to strip Blizzards subscribers until Titan is released.
300 milliseconds of action for every 1.5 seconds of waiting (thanks poor player favoring global cool down!). 3 minutes of actually doing something for every 15 minutes of 'combat' doesn't seem all that appealing to me. Same reason I won't play WoW or Rift anymore. Also amuses me when highly competative types think doing well in this kind of environment amounts to any kind of accomplishment even when only considering video games.
And no, they aren't emphasizing strategy over speed to win a fight. If they were they WOULD speed it up since that would make having the proper strategy much more important.
Dang Dang and Dang now we have a winner! See the reason I am labeling Tor as a "story driven solo game with others players" is I am labeling games like World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, War...GW 2 the same way.
I think this is a good example, one that says it all.
I suspect a lot of people who keep bashing SWTOR with odd arguments are people who actually have grown sick or burnt out on traditional themepark MMO gameplay in general. They don't care about SWTOR because they have stopped caring about themepark MMO's in general, in fact I suspect that for some people that jadedness runs even deeper and they'll find themselves be bored pretty quickly in other types of MMO's as well, still unable to enjoy MMO's as much as they used to, but only time will tell.
Well, I suspect you are wrong in large part as far as people being unable to enjoy a non-themepark MMO in the context of the above. If that were true then I don't think you would have the "Isabelle's" out there writing opinion pieces which gives a voice to those of us who are sick of hearing that themepark is the way to go and that games like TOR are what "everyone" wants. I think that's why you see folks like myself chiming in and backing up said pieces.
Some people are content with eatingtheir same old bowl of gruel day in and day out, with maybe an occaisional random piece of fruit thrown in. The rest of us would like to have a buffet of various foods from which to choose from. Maybe if the MMO genre had produced as many sandbox games as they have themepark games you wouldn't have such a number of people who are tired of themeparks.
I would like you to be able to test your theory, though, for the short point that it would mean the industry was making something other than themeparks in "mass quantities".
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
The article sums up my feelings towards SWTOR pretty acurately. Over the past 6 years I think just about everyone has been burned/dissappointed by the release of a game they thought would be great but sucked.
Have to agree 100% with Isabelle. This game won't even come close to the old buggy SWG because Bioware has decided to put you in a straight jacket and make all your decisions for you. The joke is on all the people who are going to buy the game.
Dang Dang and Dang now we have a winner! See the reason I am labeling Tor as a "story driven solo game with others players" is I am labeling games like World of Warcraft, Age of Conan, War...GW 2 the same way.
I think this is a good example, one that says it all.
I suspect a lot of people who keep bashing SWTOR with odd arguments are people who actually have grown sick or burnt out on traditional themepark MMO gameplay in general. They don't care about SWTOR because they have stopped caring about themepark MMO's in general, in fact I suspect that for some people that jadedness runs even deeper and they'll find themselves be bored pretty quickly in other types of MMO's as well, still unable to enjoy MMO's as much as they used to, but only time will tell.
Well, I suspect you are wrong in large part as far as people being unable to enjoy a non-themepark MMO in the context of the above. If that were true then I don't think you would have the "Isabelle's" out there writing opinion pieces which gives a voice to those of us who are sick of hearing that themepark is the way to go and that games like TOR are what "everyone" wants. I think that's why you see folks like myself chiming in and backing up said pieces.
Some people are content with eatingtheir same old bowl of gruel day in and day out, with maybe an occaisional random piece of fruit thrown in. The rest of us would like to have a buffet of various foods from which to choose from. Maybe if the MMO genre had produced as many sandbox games as they have themepark games you wouldn't have such a number of people who are tired of themeparks.
I would like you to be able to test your theory, though, for the short point that it would mean the industry was making something other than themeparks in "mass quantities".
? i have no idea to whom you were replying but it sure as hell wasn't to my post. If it was, then you completely misinterpreted what I was saying, which makes responding kinda difficult, first try to read what I'm actually saying
Originally posted by Dionysus187
3 minutes of actually doing something for every 15 minutes of 'combat' doesn't seem all that appealing to me.
? odd reasoning, that has nothing to do with SWTOR.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Have to agree 100% with Isabelle. This game won't even come close to the old buggy SWG because Bioware has decided to put you in a straight jacket and make all your decisions for you. The joke is on all the people who are going to buy the game.
I'm buying this game, because it has many of the features that I enjoy not only in MMO's, but in Bioware games that I have played. The joke is on you, thinking we have no clue what we like nor your alluding that we can't comprehend what the developers and hands on players have told us.
I agree with you Isabelle. TOR is getting all the attention because it's Star Wars and Bioware. Strip that down and people wouldn't even know this MMO exists.
IMO some voiced over quest givers and branching storylines ain't enough to make a good MMO. Everything else feels generic. But to each their own I guess.
I think any exitement over TOR has been totally fabricated by EA games. Most of the hype has been shoved down our throats dispite our nausia about Holy trinity WOW clones. I think this game would have been moderately exiting before the first crop of commercial wow clones was released, now its like war weariness. Most of us want them to stop making wow clones in general, not just EA games and Bioware.
To get a real feal of the crowd control on negative press the game gets one really only has to join the TOR official forums {mod edit} The site itself continually puts out hype with Darth Haters name all over it usually some new Fluff addition to the game that they call content.
Most people who were not SWG players understand this game is just a WOW clone in space with very little to offer, indeed there are actual FREE wow clones that have more unique features than TOR does, which is a sad statement considering how much money they spent making what they could have done with a FTP budget. People who were SWG players will also be dissapointed since this game offers NO sandbox elements at all, and is basically EA shoving a repackaged version the the Sony NGE down everyones throat because there are professionals in the industry that still blame the players not themselves for the NGEs failure they stil want to prove that the NGE was not the problem just those stupid players. So here we go again another stab at a Star Wars themepark.
Also many of the same Devs who were on the NGE are working for the TOR project, how sad is that. I am telling you this is NGE 2.0 and everyone knows it.
I could care less. For me personally this is the most excited about an MMO Ive been in years. The game has great potential with a huge fanbase and if it plays like many other MMO's in a Star Wars Universe Im all for it. I loved SWG but the whole game made no sense and I still enjoyed it so I know I will love SWTOR
@Azaria: you assume that everyone or the majority of MMO gamers is like you. You are oh so wrong.
Not everyone is a hardcore sandbox fanatic, in fact sandbox fans who don't play themepark MMO's or dislike them have proven to be the minority.
Not everyone has grown sick and tired and burnt out on themepark MMO's and themepark gameplay. Again, that's still just a minority that MMO gamers are like that and has been for years, since millions upon millions have been playing themepark styled MMO's over the past years.
In fact, most recently a themepark MMO with unknown IP and unknown dev company behind it still managed to draw in close to 1 million people playing it.
This doesn't mean that there isn't room for a sandbox title or something completely different, because there is, the assumption that the majority of MMO gamers suddenly doesn't like to play themepark MMO's anymore and detest themepark style of gameplay though is unrealistic, false and just wishful thinking
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
TOR not being SWG is one of the reasons I'm looking forward to it.
SWG was a massive failure to me.
I think this is a good example, one that says it all.
I suspect a lot of people who keep bashing SWTOR with odd arguments are people who actually have grown sick or burnt out on traditional themepark MMO gameplay in general. They don't care about SWTOR because they have stopped caring about themepark MMO's in general, in fact I suspect that for some people that jadedness runs even deeper and they'll find themselves be bored pretty quickly in other types of MMO's as well, still unable to enjoy MMO's as much as they used to, but only time will tell.
Good thinking.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
To the OP, you have hit the nail on the head. I am in total agreeance with you.
Unlike the OP it's felt like I had lost my capacity for wonder and frothing excitement for MMOs. Everything after EQ has just kind of been slowly downhill. The MMO worlds didn't seem to have the same depth, lore, and story that even the text MMOs had when I was playing them at 11 years old on AOL. Every MMO has been kinda "blah."
It's the same old story. Hit Things With Stick Until You Reach Top Level!! SWtOR pops out to me because multiplayer interactive story is finally back in MMOs. It was gone for a minute when MMOs went from text to 3d graphics but now story immersion is finally back. I don't even care about the hype around this game or any upcoming MMO. I'm just interested in seeing if they actually managed to get the story part right and make an MMO that's not just "Hit Things with Stick Til Level 50." Or "Hit Things with Stick in Complex Ways Til Level 50." Or "Hit Things with Stick with Teamwork to Grind Reputation AT Level 50."
I don't see what about SWtOR is single player game? The story elements natively support multiplayer gameplay. Not to mention even most current MMOs allow players to go solo all the way to max level if they want. I even played Dark Age of Camelot solo for a while.
If this was a forum post instead of an article, people would have complained about trolling from the first page. Even excusing this faux news item as an editorial piece, it fails to make a point against SWTOR that couldn't be made against many other games in the genre. In effect, we have one person's poorly defended prejudices presented as content.
To quote the article, this website makes me feel "meh".
This article is a great example of how to pander to your audience.
First price tag. It's the same price as any Bioware game. So I must missing something here.
Second hype. It's Bioware and Star Wars of course there is going to be hype. Did you want them to make a different game just so there isn't so much hype? I guess Bioware is too big a studio to make an mmo in your opinion, because they generate too much hype.
Third SWG. Hurray, another bitter SWG vet that lets their bitterness get in the way of any logic or reason. There can't be another Star Wars game because SOE destroyed the first one in your opinion I guess.
In the end you sound like one of the bitter, jaded mmo- burnouts who frequent this sight. Trolling the forums of every game about to release screaming "Needs MOAR Sandbox!!". As if we don't have enough failed sandboxes out there that nobody plays or cares about.
Yeah that describes me perfectly. Generally speakling after several notable disappointments the past few years my ability to get excited about an MMO before it launches has been severely diminished if not outright killed. And specifically I have the same reservations about playing what seems like a singleplayer rpg with a faux-mmo skin on top of it.
Also I have vague reservations about how I feel about a Star Wars game in which jedi/sith are common. Not to mention the possibility that a game with many jedi/sith may be pure emo-bait.
So after it launches I'll happily do a free trial and depending on how I like it and the general response I'll get it.
SWG wasn't the masive failure, Sony Online Entertainment was. They failed to follow the "If it aint broke don't fix it" rule.
You must not have played SWG before the CU and NGE updates/changes that destroyed the game and took a largely non-linear game and forced it to be linear (also deleted 70-80%% of the possible classes). If you didn't do a little research, the game was amazing before all of that. By far one of the best most indepth player driven skill-based mmorpgs I had every played.
(and before people flame me without reading I said *one of the best*, lots of other games that are more indepth have came out since then.)
I don't think it's the fact that it's a themepark. It's the fact that it's exactly the same themepark we've been playing since 2004.
Aside from better storytelling, SWTOR is doing NOTHING new. Literally.
When we heard BioWare say "We're adding a fourth pillar to the MMO" we didn't expect them to follow up with "and the other three pillars we are just going to copy/paste from WoW".
You said "we" instead of "you". Didn't know you spoke for everybody who is going to purchase the game.
Just off the top of my head.
-Companion characters
-Crafting System
-Legacy System
I think Bioware is being more innovative than you give them credit for.
It's pretty obvious that when I say "We" I mean everyone who feels this way, not everyone waiting on the game.
1. Companions work exactly the same as any other MMO pet, it just happens that they have some Mass Effect-like dialogue in SOME dialogue scenes and more impact on your STORY. When it comes to actual MECHANICS they work EXACTLY the same as any other MMO pet.
2. The crafting system works exactly the same as WoW except that resource gathering is an automated process instead of a manual process. It won't significantly alter the crafting experience.
3. Yes, it's neat new feature but it isn't a gameplay mechanic. All it does is unlocks some options for your next toon, it doesn't affect how you actually play the game.
You might be able to argue that Story alone is innovation enough, which might or not be true, but aside from that there's isn't much for SWTOR to claim innovation.
I wonder though if it's just themepark MMO's that (some) people are bored of, after all, EQ had the same endgame content, a form of raiding and such. In fact, I saw the exact same symptoms that I see now with a number of ppl who have grown sick and tired of themepark MMO's, with some people in EQ already: after a year or so, EQ and activities in EQ just didn't appeal to them anymore, they didn't have fun anymore, some gameplay aspects even started them to heavily dislike them.
So, maybe a different kind of themepark MMO will rekindle that joy in MMO gaming again, but maybe even a more drastic change of scenery is needed for some, I think it all depends on how deep the aversion or burn out runs for each person. For some people it'll already be enough if the MMO isn't WoW but another AAA themepark MMO, while for others all themepark MMO's are off limits, even hybrid MMO's like AA, and for some it may even mean that only a full break from all MMO's for a long while can revive that MMO gaming enjoyment again.
If you're looking for revolutionary innovation, then sure, SWTOR isn't what you're looking for, but in its Companion system, story quest revamp, Crew Skills, cover system and a host of little innovations and improvements it has enough change to make SWTOR distinctive of its own.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
This article is a copypasta of my thoughts.
I'm not excited for TOR because:
1) I really got bored with KOTOR and never bothered finishing it
2) I'm not really big into the fan-fiction past of the Star Wars films. If it's not in the films, it's fan fiction as far as I'm concerned. Even Lucas describes the extended universe as a parallel one to his own. I'd be more excited if it at least occurred some time after ROTJ.
3) Space combat on rails - no thanks
4) It's not different enough from other Theme Park MMOs. Why start from scratch and subscribe to a game that appears to just be WoW in space.
I like the art direction and think it will be very successful, but it just doesn't feel revolutionary enough to me. It's more of a game to strip Blizzards subscribers until Titan is released.
300 milliseconds of action for every 1.5 seconds of waiting (thanks poor player favoring global cool down!). 3 minutes of actually doing something for every 15 minutes of 'combat' doesn't seem all that appealing to me. Same reason I won't play WoW or Rift anymore. Also amuses me when highly competative types think doing well in this kind of environment amounts to any kind of accomplishment even when only considering video games.
And no, they aren't emphasizing strategy over speed to win a fight. If they were they WOULD speed it up since that would make having the proper strategy much more important.
Well, I suspect you are wrong in large part as far as people being unable to enjoy a non-themepark MMO in the context of the above. If that were true then I don't think you would have the "Isabelle's" out there writing opinion pieces which gives a voice to those of us who are sick of hearing that themepark is the way to go and that games like TOR are what "everyone" wants. I think that's why you see folks like myself chiming in and backing up said pieces.
Some people are content with eatingtheir same old bowl of gruel day in and day out, with maybe an occaisional random piece of fruit thrown in. The rest of us would like to have a buffet of various foods from which to choose from. Maybe if the MMO genre had produced as many sandbox games as they have themepark games you wouldn't have such a number of people who are tired of themeparks.
I would like you to be able to test your theory, though, for the short point that it would mean the industry was making something other than themeparks in "mass quantities".
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
The article sums up my feelings towards SWTOR pretty acurately. Over the past 6 years I think just about everyone has been burned/dissappointed by the release of a game they thought would be great but sucked.
Have to agree 100% with Isabelle. This game won't even come close to the old buggy SWG because Bioware has decided to put you in a straight jacket and make all your decisions for you. The joke is on all the people who are going to buy the game.
? i have no idea to whom you were replying but it sure as hell wasn't to my post. If it was, then you completely misinterpreted what I was saying, which makes responding kinda difficult, first try to read what I'm actually saying
? odd reasoning, that has nothing to do with SWTOR.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm buying this game, because it has many of the features that I enjoy not only in MMO's, but in Bioware games that I have played. The joke is on you, thinking we have no clue what we like nor your alluding that we can't comprehend what the developers and hands on players have told us.
I agree with you Isabelle. TOR is getting all the attention because it's Star Wars and Bioware. Strip that down and people wouldn't even know this MMO exists.
IMO some voiced over quest givers and branching storylines ain't enough to make a good MMO. Everything else feels generic. But to each their own I guess.
Eat me!
I think any exitement over TOR has been totally fabricated by EA games. Most of the hype has been shoved down our throats dispite our nausia about Holy trinity WOW clones. I think this game would have been moderately exiting before the first crop of commercial wow clones was released, now its like war weariness. Most of us want them to stop making wow clones in general, not just EA games and Bioware.
To get a real feal of the crowd control on negative press the game gets one really only has to join the TOR official forums {mod edit} The site itself continually puts out hype with Darth Haters name all over it usually some new Fluff addition to the game that they call content.
Most people who were not SWG players understand this game is just a WOW clone in space with very little to offer, indeed there are actual FREE wow clones that have more unique features than TOR does, which is a sad statement considering how much money they spent making what they could have done with a FTP budget. People who were SWG players will also be dissapointed since this game offers NO sandbox elements at all, and is basically EA shoving a repackaged version the the Sony NGE down everyones throat because there are professionals in the industry that still blame the players not themselves for the NGEs failure they stil want to prove that the NGE was not the problem just those stupid players. So here we go again another stab at a Star Wars themepark.
Also many of the same Devs who were on the NGE are working for the TOR project, how sad is that. I am telling you this is NGE 2.0 and everyone knows it.
I could care less. For me personally this is the most excited about an MMO Ive been in years. The game has great potential with a huge fanbase and if it plays like many other MMO's in a Star Wars Universe Im all for it. I loved SWG but the whole game made no sense and I still enjoyed it so I know I will love SWTOR
@Azaria: you assume that everyone or the majority of MMO gamers is like you. You are oh so wrong.
Not everyone is a hardcore sandbox fanatic, in fact sandbox fans who don't play themepark MMO's or dislike them have proven to be the minority.
Not everyone has grown sick and tired and burnt out on themepark MMO's and themepark gameplay. Again, that's still just a minority that MMO gamers are like that and has been for years, since millions upon millions have been playing themepark styled MMO's over the past years.
In fact, most recently a themepark MMO with unknown IP and unknown dev company behind it still managed to draw in close to 1 million people playing it.
This doesn't mean that there isn't room for a sandbox title or something completely different, because there is, the assumption that the majority of MMO gamers suddenly doesn't like to play themepark MMO's anymore and detest themepark style of gameplay though is unrealistic, false and just wishful thinking
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."