The buying of virtual items for real life cash has been done since UO. Some hefty percentage of players are against it, while a silent large percentage of players are for it (which can be confirmed by the # of RMT activities available).
I personally don't see what the problem is unless you think the MMO game is a zero-sum system, which is to say that someone's benefit (using real life cash) makes your playing less effective. Usually people say "well, i spent my time in game getting item X, so you should too" just seems dumb because someone did spend the time to get item X (the farmer), but they happened to sell it for real life cash.
I suspect this debate will never end, primarily because most MMO gamers tend to have lower incomes and they dislike having someone with a higher income in real life come in and be able to compete because of it.
The other factor is the current gold spammers and hackers. If a real cash auction house killed them, or at least re-routed the cash to something like a guild that actually played honestly, then that would definitely be a positive imho.
That's the thing though...
The addition of an RMT AH doesn't deter scamming, botting, account theft, etc. Just because the buying and selling of ingame currency/items is legitimized, it doesn't change the fact that the 'easiest' ways to amass a large supply to sell for profit will still be through undesirable methods.
If anything, legitimizing RMT actually makes things worse. The more people look to purchase via RMT, the more supply is needed, and thus the more aggressive the gold farmers become, and the worse the rest of the players are hurt.
I suspect this debate will never end, primarily because most MMO gamers tend to have lower incomes and they dislike having someone with a higher income in real life come in and be able to compete because of it.
Why do people keep assuming that disliking RMT equates to having a low income?
I can assure you, I'm not low income, but I still despise RMT. Why? Because I want the games I play to be games, not money pits. Paying extra to buy things that would otherwise be obtained through actually playing the game, makes absolutely no sense to me. Why would I 'play' a game and then pay to not have to play it? If a game is designed in that manner, then I'll opt to not play such a game, because it's lost it's purpose as a game.
The entire existence of RMT in a game is nonsensicle to me, which is why I dislike RMT and avoid RMT games. Which again, has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I can afford to piss money away in such a game.
I suspect this debate will never end, primarily because most MMO gamers tend to have lower incomes and they dislike having someone with a higher income in real life come in and be able to compete because of it.
Why do people keep assuming that disliking RMT equates to having a low income?
I can assure you, I'm not low income, but I still despise RMT. Why? Because I want the games I play to be games, not money pits. Paying extra to buy things that would otherwise be obtained through actually playing the game, makes absolutely no sense to me. Why would I 'play' a game and then pay to not have to play it? If a game is designed in that manner, then I'll opt to not play such a game, because it's lost it's purpose as a game.
The entire existence of RMT in a game is nonsensicle to me, which is why I dislike RMT and avoid RMT games. Which again, has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I can afford to piss money away in such a game.
Well said !
I suspect this debate will never end, primarily because most MMO gamers tend to have lower incomes and they dislike having someone with a higher income in real life come in and be able to compete because of it.
Its pathetic that the OP tries to address the symptoms of the real underlying problem with the real cash auction house. Crafting is a goldsink in WoW and LOTRO and is not designed to be involving and fun. It is just one of the side activities that you can do on your toon. To fund it you need to do the main activity, which is PVE. This just creates an incentive to avoid this boring progress and just buy your way through it with real money or ingame gold using the current auction house. More so then in other games with crafting.
In other games they made (or at least attempted) crafting an involving and sometimes even completely seperate profession. Or at least a progression that doesnt need PVE combat or other unrelated activities. In those games there is no need for farming gold (or buying it) to fund your crafting. And this is how it should be imo. WoW created the wrong incentives.
Slapping a goldsink on about everything you can think of just asks for goldsellers and I think is bad design. And then to counter this, they come up with bad compromises as solutions in the form of Bind on Pickup and crap like that, destroying the player economy even more. Not to mention the quested or raided items that make crafted items useless and turn crafting into some shallow accomplishment that is just about raising enough gold to fund it. And this is the real problem. The whole design of crafting in WoW is as bad as it can get.
The OP sounds like a junkie rationalizaing his addiction. Cash shops are just a natural result of the new gaming generation and as long as companies offer players a "cheat" that allows them to buy their ability to compete and progress, we will just see more and more of this nonsense. Unfortunately, I think it is time to call it quits on this genre and give it to the instant gratification kiddies. Who knows, maybe a new genre can be created that brings back the 1999-2003 period of mmorpg gaming and allows us to redirect the evolution that has sewerdized this one.
What skill needed are thou talking about in this generation of MMOs!? None that I can think of...they're all rather easy, yet time consuming, and for the most part fun distractions. Skill though...nah, thats not required anymore...
What skill needed are thou talking about in this generation of MMOs!? None that I can think of...they're all rather easy, yet time consuming, and for the most part fun distractions. Skill though...nah, thats not required anymore...
Of course it is, jsut not even close to what it was in the old days.
But almost all computer games are getting easier and easier, do you really think that Diablo 3 will be as hard as the first one?
Sometimes I wonder if people stop by to leave a comment randomly having to do with the topic of the article + WoW without actually reading said article.
I'd like to say I'm actually for RMT, because it's making something legall that everyone does anyways. Yes, gold sellers are evil or w/e, but I don't know a damn person that hasn't given IGE money, so they can worry about the game and not the Auction House and this will make selling items for real money more accessible to the playerbase making the Big Name Gold Sellers have to work a little harder to compete with the actual gamer.
I'm one "damn person" who hasn't given IGE any money. Hell, I had to google it just to find out what "IGE" is. I've had many friends whose accounts have been hacked and all of their gear sold and money sent off. Are you really that sad/lazy of a person that you can't just go get the gold legally? Especially in a game that has made it so easy to obtain gold such as WoW. There are more dailies and ways to make money in that game, it's pathetic if you can't make it legitimately. It's one thing back in pre-BC when there weren't such things as "dailies" and you had to rep grind and farm essences of air.
We already pay $15 a month, why would we want to pay more?
The other factor is the current gold spammers and hackers. If a real cash auction house killed them, or at least re-routed the cash to something like a guild that actually played honestly, then that would definitely be a positive imho.
That's the thing though...
The addition of an RMT AH doesn't deter scamming, botting, account theft, etc. Just because the buying and selling of ingame currency/items is legitimized, it doesn't change the fact that the 'easiest' ways to amass a large supply to sell for profit will still be through undesirable methods.
If anything, legitimizing RMT actually makes things worse. The more people look to purchase via RMT, the more supply is needed, and thus the more aggressive the gold farmers become, and the worse the rest of the players are hurt.
Bump. It's hard to argue against a tested and proven supply and demand system.
The buying of virtual items for real life cash has been done since UO. Some hefty percentage of players are against it, while a silent large percentage of players are for it (which can be confirmed by the # of RMT activities available).
I personally don't see what the problem is unless you think the MMO game is a zero-sum system, which is to say that someone's benefit (using real life cash) makes your playing less effective. Usually people say "well, i spent my time in game getting item X, so you should too" just seems dumb because someone did spend the time to get item X (the farmer), but they happened to sell it for real life cash.
I suspect this debate will never end, primarily because most MMO gamers tend to have lower incomes and they dislike having someone with a higher income in real life come in and be able to compete because of it.
Not trying to call you out, just curious on your opinion. So you're saying that you wouldn't have a problem playing a game with RMT via an auction house knowing that someone like Warren Buffett or Ted Turner are playing and bidding for the same item that you are?
Side note: if you ARE Warren Buffett or Ted Turner, then this point is moot. However, I'm willing to bet all of your money that you're not one of them lol.
Personally, I prefer a good P2P game of a F2P game for the fact that generally speaking the $15 a month cost generally gives me a fair playing ground with the rest of the players. yes gold farmers and other illegal activities do make that point a bit hard to argue, but atleast the majority of the people don't participate in this. Add RMT to a P2P game or really any type of game where the money isn't going from the player to the developer and you kill the game basically for me. As I have posted before, my friend plays Wurm and constantly tries to get me to play the game. The game overall is decent, has some of the features that I want in the game albeit with some decent size problems, but It basically supports RMT for items. Every few days someone will post that they are selling accounts for $100-$500 sometimes more. I refuse to pay another player real life money for a game and it's basically the one big reason I am hesitant to play a game that supports it.
Seconded. Buying to win... why even bother playing a game at that point?
Thirded!_D
Checking out that screenshot of the auction house was like looking at a nightmare!
Gloves of greed 1.50$
Sword of stupidity 3.75$
Helmet of doom 20$
Damn, I mean stuff ''like'' this has ben around for a long time, BUT this time around its finally becoming ''mainstream'', people!
And we are buying it, literally! :P
-If I really can buy to win or achieve a similar effect (more or less) by being able to spend real life cash, than why bother playing the game to begin with?
What I saw in the screen shot was the guy had $50 and the items were 12m and up, if that is 12 million real dollars then there is no way in hell it is going to work.
For those that think the cash ah is a good thing I guess that depends if the price for said item is going to be set by another player and that is who the actual money goes to then that is going to be a disaster. How long do you really think it is going to take for the gold farmer koreans and china guys to have the prices so high that the normal person won't be able to afford them ? not long.
I know a lot of people that have never bought gold, make it legal and that will change I am sure. Gold farming and the buying of gold or what ever the in game currency is ruins the game. Not all of us have thousands of dollars in disposable income.
I know people that have a hard time paying the $15 sub fee, if it all goes free to play with a cash shop and then an ah where players set the prices and get the money it is going to actually cause people to not want to play once they see there bank accounts drained monthly for there FREE to play game.
The company's that have or will go F2P with cash shop are not going to do it to save the player money, there are going to do it to make more money. It is the nature of buisness.
Don't believe me ? look at games like combat arms, or battlefiels play for free, every time they come out with a new weapon/armor set it cost just a little more then the last set. EVERY time. Anyone who thinks it will be different is just fooling them self's and is not good at basic math.
Things may be leaning towards a F2P model and we let them get there hooks in and it will become another rich person activity and there will be low pops in all games.
Quick question guys, why are you all assuming "Pay 2 Play" is the exact same thing as "Play to Win?"
Most free to play games nowadays (not all) are doing an extra ordinary job with not making the cash shop ludicrous or borken for balance. Most have entirely unecessary or merely cosmetic items available.
Also Maybe I should have made it entirely clear in the article, but with a cash auction house, you couldn't buy power any more than you can now. You wouldn't be able to sell soul-bound progression raid gear in the CAH, no more than in the normal one. I thought this was a fact that would be taken for granted, but everyone is instantly going "P2W you give in sir you fail go spend your money elsewhere" etc.
Did I write something in the article explicitly stating that the hypothetical situations would entail selling power, which most smart, successful free to play games don't do?
Comments
The buying of virtual items for real life cash has been done since UO. Some hefty percentage of players are against it, while a silent large percentage of players are for it (which can be confirmed by the # of RMT activities available).
I personally don't see what the problem is unless you think the MMO game is a zero-sum system, which is to say that someone's benefit (using real life cash) makes your playing less effective. Usually people say "well, i spent my time in game getting item X, so you should too" just seems dumb because someone did spend the time to get item X (the farmer), but they happened to sell it for real life cash.
I suspect this debate will never end, primarily because most MMO gamers tend to have lower incomes and they dislike having someone with a higher income in real life come in and be able to compete because of it.
That's the thing though...
The addition of an RMT AH doesn't deter scamming, botting, account theft, etc. Just because the buying and selling of ingame currency/items is legitimized, it doesn't change the fact that the 'easiest' ways to amass a large supply to sell for profit will still be through undesirable methods.
If anything, legitimizing RMT actually makes things worse. The more people look to purchase via RMT, the more supply is needed, and thus the more aggressive the gold farmers become, and the worse the rest of the players are hurt.
Why do people keep assuming that disliking RMT equates to having a low income?
I can assure you, I'm not low income, but I still despise RMT. Why? Because I want the games I play to be games, not money pits. Paying extra to buy things that would otherwise be obtained through actually playing the game, makes absolutely no sense to me. Why would I 'play' a game and then pay to not have to play it? If a game is designed in that manner, then I'll opt to not play such a game, because it's lost it's purpose as a game.
The entire existence of RMT in a game is nonsensicle to me, which is why I dislike RMT and avoid RMT games. Which again, has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I can afford to piss money away in such a game.
The future. Best deals anywhere!
Well said !
I suspect this debate will never end, primarily because most MMO gamers tend to have lower incomes and they dislike having someone with a higher income in real life come in and be able to compete because of it.
utter and complete crap, wheres you source ?
Its pathetic that the OP tries to address the symptoms of the real underlying problem with the real cash auction house. Crafting is a goldsink in WoW and LOTRO and is not designed to be involving and fun. It is just one of the side activities that you can do on your toon. To fund it you need to do the main activity, which is PVE. This just creates an incentive to avoid this boring progress and just buy your way through it with real money or ingame gold using the current auction house. More so then in other games with crafting.
In other games they made (or at least attempted) crafting an involving and sometimes even completely seperate profession. Or at least a progression that doesnt need PVE combat or other unrelated activities. In those games there is no need for farming gold (or buying it) to fund your crafting. And this is how it should be imo. WoW created the wrong incentives.
Slapping a goldsink on about everything you can think of just asks for goldsellers and I think is bad design. And then to counter this, they come up with bad compromises as solutions in the form of Bind on Pickup and crap like that, destroying the player economy even more. Not to mention the quested or raided items that make crafted items useless and turn crafting into some shallow accomplishment that is just about raising enough gold to fund it. And this is the real problem. The whole design of crafting in WoW is as bad as it can get.
Real life money auctions & item malls is going to be the final nail in the coffin of PC gaming,
the industry is already dying & the customers that stand loyal are just being milked dry with
so called F2P models, that usually cost more in the end, along with other non traditional
pay models, what happended to box sales & a monthly sub?
...i'll tell ya, devs got even more fkn gready, they want to milk every penny out of us
this "pay to win" culture is a fkn joke, what happended to skill? if you cant play games
& have to spend money left right & center, then you should just go find another hobby.
The Deathstar destroyed planets...Lucas Arts destroyed Galaxies
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
Played:
SWG | EVE | WOW | VG | LOTRO | WAR | FML | STO | APB | AOC | MORTAL | WOT | BP | SW:TOR
The OP sounds like a junkie rationalizaing his addiction. Cash shops are just a natural result of the new gaming generation and as long as companies offer players a "cheat" that allows them to buy their ability to compete and progress, we will just see more and more of this nonsense. Unfortunately, I think it is time to call it quits on this genre and give it to the instant gratification kiddies. Who knows, maybe a new genre can be created that brings back the 1999-2003 period of mmorpg gaming and allows us to redirect the evolution that has sewerdized this one.
What skill needed are thou talking about in this generation of MMOs!? None that I can think of...they're all rather easy, yet time consuming, and for the most part fun distractions. Skill though...nah, thats not required anymore...
Of course it is, jsut not even close to what it was in the old days.
But almost all computer games are getting easier and easier, do you really think that Diablo 3 will be as hard as the first one?
Games that offer microtransactions/cash shops/real world cash auction houses should be Buy2Play or free2Play.
Having the above ontop of a compulsory subscription fee just to play is rediculously greedy IMHO and should not be supported.
Subscriptionless models seems to be where the industry is headed but I dont see blizzard giving up their WoW subfee any time soon.
real money ah's are a good idea for every single mmo out there. legally make a little extra money playing a game? yes sir, sign me up!
Hey, that's the guy I buy my drugs from!
TRUST THE COMPUTER! THE COMPUTER IS YOUR FRIEND!
Stay Alert! Trust No One! Keep Your Laser Handy!
Yellow Clearance Black Box Blues!
Seconded. Buying to win... why even bother playing a game at that point?
Sometimes I wonder if people stop by to leave a comment randomly having to do with the topic of the article + WoW without actually reading said article.
I'm one "damn person" who hasn't given IGE any money. Hell, I had to google it just to find out what "IGE" is. I've had many friends whose accounts have been hacked and all of their gear sold and money sent off. Are you really that sad/lazy of a person that you can't just go get the gold legally? Especially in a game that has made it so easy to obtain gold such as WoW. There are more dailies and ways to make money in that game, it's pathetic if you can't make it legitimately. It's one thing back in pre-BC when there weren't such things as "dailies" and you had to rep grind and farm essences of air.
We already pay $15 a month, why would we want to pay more?
Bump. It's hard to argue against a tested and proven supply and demand system.
Not trying to call you out, just curious on your opinion. So you're saying that you wouldn't have a problem playing a game with RMT via an auction house knowing that someone like Warren Buffett or Ted Turner are playing and bidding for the same item that you are?
Side note: if you ARE Warren Buffett or Ted Turner, then this point is moot. However, I'm willing to bet all of your money that you're not one of them lol.
Personally, I prefer a good P2P game of a F2P game for the fact that generally speaking the $15 a month cost generally gives me a fair playing ground with the rest of the players. yes gold farmers and other illegal activities do make that point a bit hard to argue, but atleast the majority of the people don't participate in this. Add RMT to a P2P game or really any type of game where the money isn't going from the player to the developer and you kill the game basically for me. As I have posted before, my friend plays Wurm and constantly tries to get me to play the game. The game overall is decent, has some of the features that I want in the game albeit with some decent size problems, but It basically supports RMT for items. Every few days someone will post that they are selling accounts for $100-$500 sometimes more. I refuse to pay another player real life money for a game and it's basically the one big reason I am hesitant to play a game that supports it.
RMT is a plague! Legal RMT is even worse!
Seriously. Why do people that give into RMT even bother playing games? What's the point if you just buy everything with money?
Then what? What you gonna do then? In case of WoW.... just sit in Ironforge, Undercity, whatever flashing your RMT'ed gear?
The moment RMT becomes legal and the norm in MMO's. That cash shops become the dominant factor in MMO's.
That will be the day I step back, pull the middle finger, and turn away from MMO's for good!
This whole INSTANT gratification generation of gamers is making me sick! They have no idea that they are destroying the whole genre. Such a shame.
Thirded!_D
Checking out that screenshot of the auction house was like looking at a nightmare!
Gloves of greed 1.50$
Sword of stupidity 3.75$
Helmet of doom 20$
Damn, I mean stuff ''like'' this has ben around for a long time, BUT this time around its finally becoming ''mainstream'', people!
And we are buying it, literally! :P
-If I really can buy to win or achieve a similar effect (more or less) by being able to spend real life cash, than why bother playing the game to begin with?
LoL @ whole article.
It is so ridiculous that I cannot even express.
It is like corporte or political speech written by PR people.
Just LOL.
What I saw in the screen shot was the guy had $50 and the items were 12m and up, if that is 12 million real dollars then there is no way in hell it is going to work.
For those that think the cash ah is a good thing I guess that depends if the price for said item is going to be set by another player and that is who the actual money goes to then that is going to be a disaster. How long do you really think it is going to take for the gold farmer koreans and china guys to have the prices so high that the normal person won't be able to afford them ? not long.
I know a lot of people that have never bought gold, make it legal and that will change I am sure. Gold farming and the buying of gold or what ever the in game currency is ruins the game. Not all of us have thousands of dollars in disposable income.
I know people that have a hard time paying the $15 sub fee, if it all goes free to play with a cash shop and then an ah where players set the prices and get the money it is going to actually cause people to not want to play once they see there bank accounts drained monthly for there FREE to play game.
The company's that have or will go F2P with cash shop are not going to do it to save the player money, there are going to do it to make more money. It is the nature of buisness.
Don't believe me ? look at games like combat arms, or battlefiels play for free, every time they come out with a new weapon/armor set it cost just a little more then the last set. EVERY time. Anyone who thinks it will be different is just fooling them self's and is not good at basic math.
Things may be leaning towards a F2P model and we let them get there hooks in and it will become another rich person activity and there will be low pops in all games.
pay 2 win = no challange and ruins games. its no longer a game when you dont have to play to gain! i wont play any game with a pay to win system.
Quick question guys, why are you all assuming "Pay 2 Play" is the exact same thing as "Play to Win?"
Most free to play games nowadays (not all) are doing an extra ordinary job with not making the cash shop ludicrous or borken for balance. Most have entirely unecessary or merely cosmetic items available.
Also Maybe I should have made it entirely clear in the article, but with a cash auction house, you couldn't buy power any more than you can now. You wouldn't be able to sell soul-bound progression raid gear in the CAH, no more than in the normal one. I thought this was a fact that would be taken for granted, but everyone is instantly going "P2W you give in sir you fail go spend your money elsewhere" etc.
Did I write something in the article explicitly stating that the hypothetical situations would entail selling power, which most smart, successful free to play games don't do?