I didn't see a kill 10 rats quest, I did see a kill 6 of this bonus quest. What I also saw was a go pick up this quest (too lazy to go look what the name was, better saber in starting area). On the way there, you run into resistance you have to kill. When you pick up the saber you activate some droids that attack you. Kill one of those and you get the bonus quest to kill 10 of them.
It's not all that different from the kill 10 rats quest, but instead of talking to an NPC first the rat attacks you and you get the bonus quest automatically. So what? Questing is pretty standard but somewhat automated.
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
I didn't see a kill 10 rats quest, I did see a kill 6 of this bonus quest. What I also saw was a go pick up this quest (too lazy to go look what the name was, better saber in starting area). On the way there, you run into resistance you have to kill. When you pick up the saber you activate some droids that attack you. Kill one of those and you get the bonus quest to kill 10 of them.
It's not all that different from the kill 10 rats quest, but instead of talking to an NPC first the rat attacks you and you get the bonus quest automatically. So what? Questing is pretty standard but somewhat automated.
Saves having to talk to an NPC to get the quest. Saves running back to an NPC to turn in the quest.
I didn't see a kill 10 rats quest, I did see a kill 6 of this bonus quest. What I also saw was a go pick up this quest (too lazy to go look what the name was, better saber in starting area). On the way there, you run into resistance you have to kill. When you pick up the saber you activate some droids that attack you. Kill one of those and you get the bonus quest to kill 10 of them.
It's not all that different from the kill 10 rats quest, but instead of talking to an NPC first the rat attacks you and you get the bonus quest automatically. So what? Questing is pretty standard but somewhat automated.
Thats pretty much how it works. The bonus quest pops up when you do soemthing related to the main quest you are on. Say you have to reach an object at the end of a cavern. You get a bonus mission once you enter the cavern to kill X number of mobs. All those mobs are hostile to you and theres no way to avoid them to get to the end of the cavern so you would have to kill them anyway. You don't have to go out of your way to complete the bonus mission.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
its a subtle twist, but I like this way of giving grinding quests, more immersive than collecting a batch of kill x quests and trying to be smart with your quest completion order to try and cover multiple quests at the same time.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
This is exactly how it works. Yes, you have to fight through mobs to get to the actual mission objective but the mission itself is not "go kill 10 womprats"
So basically, you're getting rewarded for killing the mobs that you have to kill to complete a mission anyway.
I like that. It's double the XP, since in the end, you get mission XP for doing the actual mission, and bonus XP for doing the Kill X mobs stuff that you're going to end up doing in the first place.
The difference is as oppose to "Oh I have to kill X amount of Y in this area, then X amount of Y in this area, then once I've cleared the zone I turn them all in at that quest hub. If I don't I cannot progress."
You instead are going. "I'm wandering through this area. Oh hey look! I killed one of these mobs and got a bonus objective come up. I can chose to keep walking and probably kill them all any way or I can focus on them as I really want that extra experience."
You don't walk up to a NPC who tells you to go and kill 10 rats, kill the rats, then return to the NPC for a reward.
This...All that really matters is that they don't waste voice acting on telling you to kill 10 slugs, and to return to the quester to now send you to collect 10 slug slime (which don't have a 100% drop rate) so you end up killing more than 10 slugs on your second rather pointless trip.
If I can avoid npcs requesting crap, all the better.
You don't walk up to a NPC who tells you to go and kill 10 rats, kill the rats, then return to the NPC for a reward.
This...All that really matters is that they don't waste voice acting on telling you to kill 10 slugs, and to return to the quester to now send you to collect 10 slug slime (which don't have a 100% drop rate) so you end up killing more than 10 slugs on your second rather pointless trip.
If I can avoid npcs requesting crap, all the better.
Aged Gorilla Sinew in classic ftw
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Again, the grind is not so just because someone tells me to do something, it´s the something itself what provokes the feeling of grind. In the end it´s obvious if you wanna advance successfully you will need to take on those extra quests, at least periodically, and thus you will still sit on your ass killing dozens of rats for no reason.
So according to you, the fact that the x mobs to kill appear AFTER you picked up the quest as opposed to when you pick up the quest, it somehow is less grindy than killing them knowing what to kill from the start.
It´s just too cute
The point is you're not getting told to do these things.
If you get a quest to go plant a bomb in a base and when you get outside the base you get a bonus objective to kill ten camp defenders or something then you were going to have to kill them anyway in fighting your way to the base.
So... yes it makes it feel less grindy. To me at least. It's way better than the traditional "Go kill 10 wolves and bring me their skins so I can make you a purse"
So according to you, the fact that the x mobs to kill appear AFTER you picked up the quest as opposed to when you pick up the quest, it somehow is less grindy than killing them knowing what to kill from the start.
It´s just too cute
His point is that it is NOT the main point of the quest, it wasn't assigned as the primary goal. You do NOT have to complete the bonus quests, and let's be honest, like he said you are most likely going to kill that many, or MORE, of that mob to begin with.
If you are the type that when you see that bonus quest that you go out of your way to complete it, the problem with the grind now becomes YOU not the game.
So according to you, the fact that the x mobs to kill appear AFTER you picked up the quest as opposed to when you pick up the quest, it somehow is less grindy than killing them knowing what to kill from the start.
You guys are seriously misinformed. If you think that the quests (outside of the main story arc) are any different in substance than your standard themepark MMO quests, you're in for a big disappointment.
However, they will be fully voice overed and that's a clear plus (with top quality voice acting to boot).
So inform us then. Post some links or any official information you got.
So according to you, the fact that the x mobs to kill appear AFTER you picked up the quest as opposed to when you pick up the quest, it somehow is less grindy than killing them knowing what to kill from the start.
It´s just too cute
MMORPGs are grind.
No grind no MMORPG.
Actually an MMORPG can go without grind, if they make the grind optional. Like in Guild Wars 2, everything you can do to progress is optional and varied enough that it won't feel like a grind and in SW:TOR, like the OP stated, you follow the story (like in a single player RPG) and have the option to grind on mobs if you choose. So MMORPGs can still be considered so if they are RPGs, set in a massive open world and can allow players to progress without forcing them to grind.
My only concern with SW:TOR's questing is whether I'll have to a lot of these bonus quest, in order to reach max. If so then it can be considered a grind, like any traditional MMORPG. And if not, then it can be too easy to reach max. It all depends on how much storyline-based content the game ships with.
You guys are seriously misinformed. If you think that the quests (outside of the main story arc) are any different in substance than your standard themepark MMO quests, you're in for a big disappointment.
However, they will be fully voice overed and that's a clear plus (with top quality voice acting to boot).
So inform us then. Post some links or any official information you got.
Destroy three remote controls and return to the quest giver.
Can you honestly say this is any different than the usual crap quests we get in today's MMOs?
Well you might say this is the first quest in a newbie zone so ofc it's going to be simple and that would make sense.
Problem is the majority of the quests are like this and no I can't prove it at this time, you'll just have to take my word for it.
A starter quest in starter area is meant to ease player in the game. All starter areas work as a tutorials. Still, the quest looks a lot of fun and is not like a typical 'kill x' type quest.
And no i am not going to take the word of a random forum user who spends most of his time bashing SWTOR over the information coming directly from Bioware.
So according to you, the fact that the x mobs to kill appear AFTER you picked up the quest as opposed to when you pick up the quest, it somehow is less grindy than killing them knowing what to kill from the start.
It´s just too cute
MMORPGs are grind.
No grind no MMORPG.
Actually an MMORPG can go without grind, if they make the grind optional. Like in Guild Wars 2, everything you can do to progress is optional and varied enough that it won't feel like a grind and in SW:TOR, like the OP stated, you follow the story (like in a single player RPG) and have the option to grind on mobs if you choose. So MMORPGs can still be considered so if they are RPGs, set in a massive open world and can allow players to progress without forcing them to grind.
My only concern with SW:TOR's questing is whether I'll have to a lot of these bonus quest, in order to reach max. If so then it can be considered a grind, like any traditional MMORPG. And if not, then it can be too easy to reach max. It all depends on how much storyline-based content the game ships with.
We are talking about Grind as in repetition of tasks in MMO. Optional or not is another matter. No matter what activity you pick up in MMORPG you are bound to repeat it. If it is optional you will pick up some other activity but you seriously think there won't be any repetition? i am still playing GW on regular basis and yes even though grind is optional i still end up repeating same thing over and over again. Hunting for titles, PVP, farming with various builds to make enough gold to buy new armor and weapon skins, running dungeons are few examples of repetitions.
It is going to be same in GW2. Every activity you pick up will be repeated over and over again. Now some people find it fun others find it grind. So it is a matter of approach.
Actually an MMORPG can go without grind, if they make the grind optional. Like in Guild Wars 2, everything you can do to progress is optional and varied enough that it won't feel like a grind and in SW:TOR, like the OP stated, you follow the story (like in a single player RPG) and have the option to grind on mobs if you choose. So MMORPGs can still be considered so if they are RPGs, set in a massive open world and can allow players to progress without forcing them to grind.
My only concern with SW:TOR's questing is whether I'll have to a lot of these bonus quest, in order to reach max. If so then it can be considered a grind, like any traditional MMORPG. And if not, then it can be too easy to reach max. It all depends on how much storyline-based content the game ships with.
We are talking about Grind as in repetition of tasks in MMO. Optional or not is another matter. No matter what activity you pick up in MMORPG you are bound to repeat it. If it is optional you will pick up some other activity but you seriously think there won't be any repetition? i am still playing GW on regular basis and yes even though grind is optional i still end up repeating same thing over and over again. Hunting for titles, PVP, farming with various builds to make enough gold to buy new armor and weapon skins, running dungeons are few examples of repetitions.
It is going to be same in GW2. Every activity you pick up will be repeated over and over again. Now some people find it fun others find it grind. So it is a matter of approach.
Yeah you have a point. Grind really comes down to the person's mentality and what they consider a grind. Like if I repeatedly do something I enjoy and maybe for a specific goal (like PvPing for that epic piece of gear) others may consider it a grind but I will think of it as a by-product of a fun activity. It all comes down to the player's mentality.
You're right, it's more like your typical "click X" type of quest...
If this is your idea of fun, you'll surely have the time of your life in SWTOR.
FYI, you're not supposed to say you're in the beta, that's breaching the NDA.
You'd surely know this if you actually were in it.
A lot of people mention here that they are in BETA but problem is when you offer any info that breaches NDA which he did not. So yeah you are wrong yet again. Your desperation to make us believe and 'just take your word for it' is also not helping your case either.
By the way i saw the video and it looks fun. Even TB was enjoying it
You're right, it's more like your typical "click X" type of quest...
If this is your idea of fun, you'll surely have the time of your life in SWTOR.
FYI, you're not supposed to say you're in the beta, that's breaching the NDA.
You'd surely know this if you actually were in it.
A lot of people mention here that they are in BETA but problem is when you offer any info that breaches NDA which he did not. So yeah you are wrong yet again.
You are wrong. All beta NDAs clearly state you're not allowed to say you're in them.
Go inform yourself before spewing out nonsense.
If I were to report his post (which I won't beacause I'm not a rat), it would get mod editted within 30 mins and he would recieve a warning.
Now that's enough kinder garden chit chat for me in one day, adios.
Such an irony.Lol Now i am just gonna take my ball and go home.
You guys are seriously misinformed. If you think that the quests (outside of the main story arc) are any different in substance than your standard themepark MMO quests, you're in for a big disappointment.
However, they will be fully voice overed and that's a clear plus (with top quality voice acting to boot).
So inform us then. Post some links or any official information you got.
Destroy three remote controls and return to the quest giver.
Can you honestly say this is any different than the usual crap quests we get in today's MMOs?
Well you might say this is the first quest in a newbie zone so ofc it's going to be simple and that would make sense.
Problem is the majority of the quests are like this and no I can't prove it at this time, you'll just have to take my word for it.
A starter quest in starter area is meant to ease player in the game. All starter areas work as a tutorials. Still, the quest looks a lot of fun and is not like a typical 'kill x' type quest.
You're right, it's more like your typical "click X" type of quest...
If this is your idea of fun, you'll surely have the time of your life in SWTOR.
FYI, you're not supposed to say you're in the beta, that's breaching the NDA.
You'd surely know this if you actually were in it.
You are allowed to say you're in gametesting, that is the extent of what you'd be able to say though. Apart from that, you will be doing the same kind of kill quests, collect quests.. and things of that nature when it comes to going through generic content... but with the way the design is, its much less of a grind and much more as completing an objective for a purpose which changes the way the game feels.
When you simplify it to "click X" type of quests, sorry to say, but even the beloved Guild Wars 2 will fall prey to being the same old types of quests.
Whats even worse are sandbox games where you don't get any type of quest and you just have an inherent: "Grind skill on mob until hands ache and eyes water" that they all seem to adopt.
You're right, it's more like your typical "click X" type of quest...
If this is your idea of fun, you'll surely have the time of your life in SWTOR.
FYI, you're not supposed to say you're in the beta, that's breaching the NDA.
You'd surely know this if you actually were in it.
I have played lots of themepark and sandbox games and end of the day i always end up clicking on things and kill them. Only difference is that in themepark someone told me to do so and in sandbox i am doing it on my own to level up.
How else you want to progress your character? in SWTOR what makes questing interesting is the way quests are designed, something one has to play it to experince it. TB was having a lot of fun so how about that for a feedback? quests or no quests, dynamic events or no dynamic events you will click and you will kill a lot. Only difference is that a guy with a quest mark on his head didn't tell you to do so.
hmm game mechanics of a MMO allow me to do 2 things...(A) travel to a X - Y coordinate, (B) interact with an object or NPC in some way. Kind of limits all MMO's to either fed ex, gather, or Fed ex quests doesn't it.
Any trolls that want to argue give me a specific example of any quest in any MMO that either does not have you gather an item, kill a mob, or interact with a friendly NPC..waiting...crickets...........
2 basic game mecahnics in MMO's time sinks and money sinks....that is the MMO game design in a nutshell
Comments
I didn't see a kill 10 rats quest, I did see a kill 6 of this bonus quest. What I also saw was a go pick up this quest (too lazy to go look what the name was, better saber in starting area). On the way there, you run into resistance you have to kill. When you pick up the saber you activate some droids that attack you. Kill one of those and you get the bonus quest to kill 10 of them.
It's not all that different from the kill 10 rats quest, but instead of talking to an NPC first the rat attacks you and you get the bonus quest automatically. So what? Questing is pretty standard but somewhat automated.
Waiting for Guild Wars 2, and maybe SWTOR until that time...
Saves having to talk to an NPC to get the quest. Saves running back to an NPC to turn in the quest.
Thats pretty much how it works. The bonus quest pops up when you do soemthing related to the main quest you are on. Say you have to reach an object at the end of a cavern. You get a bonus mission once you enter the cavern to kill X number of mobs. All those mobs are hostile to you and theres no way to avoid them to get to the end of the cavern so you would have to kill them anyway. You don't have to go out of your way to complete the bonus mission.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
its a subtle twist, but I like this way of giving grinding quests, more immersive than collecting a batch of kill x quests and trying to be smart with your quest completion order to try and cover multiple quests at the same time.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
It's designed so that most of the time you do it without thinking.
Allows you to remain focused on the story aspect of things, but hey, if you want to kill a few more then you would otherwise for slightly more reward?
Go right ahead.
So basically, you're getting rewarded for killing the mobs that you have to kill to complete a mission anyway.
I like that. It's double the XP, since in the end, you get mission XP for doing the actual mission, and bonus XP for doing the Kill X mobs stuff that you're going to end up doing in the first place.
The difference is as oppose to "Oh I have to kill X amount of Y in this area, then X amount of Y in this area, then once I've cleared the zone I turn them all in at that quest hub. If I don't I cannot progress."
You instead are going. "I'm wandering through this area. Oh hey look! I killed one of these mobs and got a bonus objective come up. I can chose to keep walking and probably kill them all any way or I can focus on them as I really want that extra experience."
-Azure Prower
http://www.youtube.com/AzurePrower
We should turn this thread into "how many different ways can we all say the exact same thing!"
ha. yeah i realized i was chiming in with the same sentiments and then i read your post above me
This...All that really matters is that they don't waste voice acting on telling you to kill 10 slugs, and to return to the quester to now send you to collect 10 slug slime (which don't have a 100% drop rate) so you end up killing more than 10 slugs on your second rather pointless trip.
If I can avoid npcs requesting crap, all the better.
Aged Gorilla Sinew in classic ftw
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
So wrong on so many levels.
The point is you're not getting told to do these things.
If you get a quest to go plant a bomb in a base and when you get outside the base you get a bonus objective to kill ten camp defenders or something then you were going to have to kill them anyway in fighting your way to the base.
So... yes it makes it feel less grindy. To me at least. It's way better than the traditional "Go kill 10 wolves and bring me their skins so I can make you a purse"
His point is that it is NOT the main point of the quest, it wasn't assigned as the primary goal. You do NOT have to complete the bonus quests, and let's be honest, like he said you are most likely going to kill that many, or MORE, of that mob to begin with.
If you are the type that when you see that bonus quest that you go out of your way to complete it, the problem with the grind now becomes YOU not the game.
MMORPGs are grind.
No grind no MMORPG.
Caveat Emptor
So inform us then. Post some links or any official information you got.
Actually an MMORPG can go without grind, if they make the grind optional. Like in Guild Wars 2, everything you can do to progress is optional and varied enough that it won't feel like a grind and in SW:TOR, like the OP stated, you follow the story (like in a single player RPG) and have the option to grind on mobs if you choose. So MMORPGs can still be considered so if they are RPGs, set in a massive open world and can allow players to progress without forcing them to grind.
My only concern with SW:TOR's questing is whether I'll have to a lot of these bonus quest, in order to reach max. If so then it can be considered a grind, like any traditional MMORPG. And if not, then it can be too easy to reach max. It all depends on how much storyline-based content the game ships with.
A starter quest in starter area is meant to ease player in the game. All starter areas work as a tutorials. Still, the quest looks a lot of fun and is not like a typical 'kill x' type quest.
And no i am not going to take the word of a random forum user who spends most of his time bashing SWTOR over the information coming directly from Bioware.
We are talking about Grind as in repetition of tasks in MMO. Optional or not is another matter. No matter what activity you pick up in MMORPG you are bound to repeat it. If it is optional you will pick up some other activity but you seriously think there won't be any repetition? i am still playing GW on regular basis and yes even though grind is optional i still end up repeating same thing over and over again. Hunting for titles, PVP, farming with various builds to make enough gold to buy new armor and weapon skins, running dungeons are few examples of repetitions.
It is going to be same in GW2. Every activity you pick up will be repeated over and over again. Now some people find it fun others find it grind. So it is a matter of approach.
Yeah you have a point. Grind really comes down to the person's mentality and what they consider a grind. Like if I repeatedly do something I enjoy and maybe for a specific goal (like PvPing for that epic piece of gear) others may consider it a grind but I will think of it as a by-product of a fun activity. It all comes down to the player's mentality.
A lot of people mention here that they are in BETA but problem is when you offer any info that breaches NDA which he did not. So yeah you are wrong yet again. Your desperation to make us believe and 'just take your word for it' is also not helping your case either.
By the way i saw the video and it looks fun. Even TB was enjoying it
Such an irony.Lol Now i am just gonna take my ball and go home.
You are allowed to say you're in gametesting, that is the extent of what you'd be able to say though. Apart from that, you will be doing the same kind of kill quests, collect quests.. and things of that nature when it comes to going through generic content... but with the way the design is, its much less of a grind and much more as completing an objective for a purpose which changes the way the game feels.
When you simplify it to "click X" type of quests, sorry to say, but even the beloved Guild Wars 2 will fall prey to being the same old types of quests.
Whats even worse are sandbox games where you don't get any type of quest and you just have an inherent: "Grind skill on mob until hands ache and eyes water" that they all seem to adopt.
I have played lots of themepark and sandbox games and end of the day i always end up clicking on things and kill them. Only difference is that in themepark someone told me to do so and in sandbox i am doing it on my own to level up.
How else you want to progress your character? in SWTOR what makes questing interesting is the way quests are designed, something one has to play it to experince it. TB was having a lot of fun so how about that for a feedback? quests or no quests, dynamic events or no dynamic events you will click and you will kill a lot. Only difference is that a guy with a quest mark on his head didn't tell you to do so.
hmm game mechanics of a MMO allow me to do 2 things...(A) travel to a X - Y coordinate, (B) interact with an object or NPC in some way. Kind of limits all MMO's to either fed ex, gather, or Fed ex quests doesn't it.
Any trolls that want to argue give me a specific example of any quest in any MMO that either does not have you gather an item, kill a mob, or interact with a friendly NPC..waiting...crickets...........
2 basic game mecahnics in MMO's time sinks and money sinks....that is the MMO game design in a nutshell
I miss DAoC