i find it interesting the GUild Wars 2 is listed. seeing the fact that Arena.Net themselves has stated that the Guild Wars Franchise isnt a MMO. THey have stated time and time again that the Guild Wars Franchise is a CORPG(Competittive Online ROle PLaying Game).
True on the GW1 part not so true on GW2 part. Actually the FaQ on their website makes this pretty clear. ArenaNET is going in direct competition with all the current MMORPG's.
i find it interesting the GUild Wars 2 is listed. seeing the fact that Arena.Net themselves has stated that the Guild Wars Franchise isnt a MMO. THey have stated time and time again that the Guild Wars Franchise is a CORPG(Competittive Online ROle PLaying Game).
This is only partially true. GW was indeed names a CORPG by ANet people, but GW2 will be a fully fledged MMORPG with everything that comes with it, and more.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
All this begging for a new king is foolish at best; and treason as a consumer at worst. To state that you want a NEW king with a new set of standards for MMO's is nothing short of consumer treason. Why? Because you betray yourself as a consumer, you’re fellow consumers, and your own wallet. Stop crying out for a new king and start yelling for the throne to remain empty. We need no king.
Except for AoC and Tera's reticle mechanic, all I see are gear-dependent-heavy games. Gear dice-rolls and grinding for more gear for the stats are soooooo yesterday. We want more interaction in all aspects of a game. Numbers controlling the outcome of most of the action removes the "human" aspects of the game.
IMHO this list is just a WoW-Clonish Top List of 2012. WoW-clone because I see WoW as the leader in making quality mmorpg respectable in terms of the BASICS. Stripped down to the basic form of how mmorpgs should be made and presented. Adding a few ingredients here in there doesn't make it a breakthrough game and raise it to a level of complex the new crowd demands.
I'm a Tekken and FPS/TPS fan and all I want is more of that twitch action and better controls!!! Damnit! Anarchy Online and Dark Age of Camelot will beat the crap out of the top 2 by just updating the graphics.
GW2 is not the WoW clone you think it is.
It's not a gear based game, it will be pretty easy to get great statistical gear, and then there will be optional grinds past that for vanity and skins.
Combat is not FPS or twitch, but a more actiony version of traditional combat. Attacks and projectiles can be dodged. RNG is not involved there.
It really is questioning everything about the MMO genre, nothing is just copy and pasted from WoW. What they're doing with WvWvW PVP alone should be enough to excite the DAOC fan in you. Here's a list of innovations I compiled. Not all of them are truly original and have been inspired by other games, but it's still an impressive package to find them all in one place.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
10) Longtime AoC player here but left for good early this year. Honestly I think they missed their shot. I expect another round of server merges laet this year most likely but I am sure they will keep it going a while yet.
9) Aion I played the Beta & just never enjoyed it and found it uninspired. I am surprised it has survived as well as it has.
8) Not into LOTRO.
7) Required reading & knwledge is a significant barrier to entry for me, I love the sound of everything but I do not have the time anymore to sit down and really make this work.
6) Not interested.
5) Its interesting and every TSW story I read gets me excited for the game but then I remember its Funcom so they will screw up the launch for sure, then they will patch & patch & screw up balance & gameplay. I doubt I will touch this one and if I dont it wont be for 6-12 months after all the release drama is done with.
4) Really over fantasy games at the moment, need Sci-Fi Stat !
3) Really over fantasy games at the moment, need Sci-Fi Stat !
2) Even though I have pre-ordered I think Bioware / EA will regret their staggered launch decision. I think a game so heavily invested in storylines will be ruined by spoilers for those in countries excluded at launch and after the intital trail off of subscribers through months 2-3 I think they will struggle to gain more than they have lost each month after release (I suspect largely due to spoilers) meaning the peak subscriber number they get to is likely to be hit in launch week and never get any higher.
1) Really over fantasy games at the moment, need Sci-Fi Stat !
Except for AoC and Tera's reticle mechanic, all I see are gear-dependent-heavy games. Gear dice-rolls and grinding for more gear for the stats are soooooo yesterday. We want more interaction in all aspects of a game. Numbers controlling the outcome of most of the action removes the "human" aspects of the game.
I haven't read past this post, but just at a random guess, I'm sure some GW2 fans will be correcting you here.
It's sad that games like Rift make the list while TRUE MMORPGs such as Vanguard are ignored by people who think WoW was the first MMO ever made.
The market is flooded with press 1,2,3 > solo to max games like Rift....it really is a disgrace to the genre.
What is a true MMORPG, what is a false one? Who to decide?
Who disgrace the genre? A huge budget game that launches as unplayable and buggy (VG) or a game that delivers what it promises (Rift)?
Everybody love a list of fanatic promises, but it is not a game until it is playable. I can promise you that the online games in the next century will provide full body motion and real healing, when you alt receives a heal, your physical body got age-1 enhancement so you can live longer. Just wait and see.
I don't get why everyone hate's rift so much. Rift has a LOT of people playing it, it's polished and bug free. It also has a whole lot of customization on your charecter. There are multiple ways to level, not just questing. All these people hate Rift for some reason and it makes no sense to me. If you don't like Rift well that's fine. But claiming it's horrible or a "silver platter" game makes no sense to me. The people who want to get to 50 easy will get there, but they won't be doing any of the high end raid's. And when GW2 or TOR comes out it won't be easy to hit max level?
They aren't going to make GW2 or TOR impossible to play because they want casual players in it. I have heard so much speculation over GW2 and TOR that I honestly would be shocked if they didn't cure cancer and solve world hunger when they are released. So many people are trashing what's out there based on what they expect these new games to be. I have heard the term WoW killer now at least three times a year for at least the last 8 years. If you want to play a game play it, if you don't like a game, well thats fine and dandy too, but comming on a message board bashing it because you didn't care for it is (well i can't think of a pc word here).
Rift is a good game, everyone I know who plays it likes it, will it loose subs to the new games? Absolutely, but just because people shift to the new games doesn't mean Rift is a turd. And while i don't like WoW, it is a good game obviously or it wouldn't have made so much money, but I imagine it will loose money too. I do like this list. I think the author made some good predictions.
Oh and for all the people complaining about vangaurd, I liked vanguard too, but blame SOE. They ruined that game, don't blame Rift for 'ruining the genre' when vanguard was failing at launch. Obviously if Vangaurd was what people wanted it would be in WoW's place now. The fact that is barely staying afloat say's more about what the market want's and where the market want's the genre's direction to be, then a few 'hardcore' players with a chip on their shoulder.
Everyone you know who play Rift likes it? You mean everyone inside Rift you know, who are still playing? Do you know anyone inside Rift who left already? Can you still talk to those you once run in, inside Rift, and now already gone?
People still inside Rift after so many months would more likely than not, like Rift. Some people got burnt out or feel sad and left. That holds true for any game, nothing surprising.
For VG, what do you blame SoE for? For fixing the game and finally make it playable? Ok I will also blame SoE for saving VG instead of letting it fold. Bad SoE :-P
That is a big 'IF' that is why i said that in terms of sheer popularity WOW will always be number one.
Will always? If people that like this genre believe this MMOs are doomed! There is no way this genre is going to survive if the only game that ever reaches the point where people that do not play MMOs know it is WoW. I actually feel sorry for this genre if its fans believe in 2020 WoW will be the most recognized game. To put that in prospective I know a lot of people that do not play games and they can name more than one single player game (it should be the same with MMOs if this genre is healthy), so if people in 2020 cannot name any other MMO than WoW good luck on this genre surviving.
Other than that good list look forward to seeing how close it is at the end of 2012.
As long as WoW enhance its gameplay, graphics, audio constantly, Wow in 2020, if it still exist, will be so different from WoW now, that it can survive its competition.
New games, however well designed, has a lot of uphill fights to threaten WoW.
Being an old brand =/= decline. Old means it was first built years ago. It does not mean it will stay with that old built after years. Whether you like it or not is an opinion. Whether the new consumer base likes it or not dictates how fast it will decline, if it will decline.
Agreed whatI think..the genre will divide into different games for different audiences again which is a really good thing. I do have a slightly hoping we will see more "niche" games again.
Hope this stupid Titan project wont be the next 800 pound behemoth.
Loke already mentioned why I think games such as Lotro are pay 2 win.
Why is titan stupid? What do we know about titan? Is it a game about titans?
I failed to see why we need to hope titan to fail. Who gains from a failed mega project? We as gamers lose, that I am sure, as we have one less choice.
I am not interested in GW2 for one simple fact. I have read that they are going to charge you $60.00 for the game and then they are going to have a cash shop. WTH, so you want to gouge more money out of us after we shelled out for the intial cost of the game. Talk about Game capitalism at its worst. No thanks, not me, you can keep it!
Lets complain when we see what we can buy.
Right now, you cannot even spent your money there.
After all, we are spending money everyday everywhere. I do not object to charging in principle, so long as I get my money's worth. It would be nice if everything is free, except the services I provide. But that is a logical fallacy once it is applied to everyone.
New games, however well designed, has a lot of uphill fights to threaten WoW.
Being an old brand =/= decline. Old means it was first built years ago. It does not mean it will stay with that old built after years. Whether you like it or not is an opinion. Whether the new consumer base likes it or not dictates how fast it will decline, if it will decline.
(LisXia just wanted to say not all of this is directed at your qoute)
Oh yes we can see the uphill battle all the other game genres have to face from the big game that brought it into the mainstream. Ever FPS has to still compete with the legacy of Doom and Wolfenstein. Oh and every RTS made now days has to compete with the legacy of Command& Conquer and Dune!
Why it is all MMO addicts think there genre is special and games will last forever and not eventually become legacy games? Because in all those healthy genres that are expanding and growing (FPS, RTS) those games are just legacy of things to come, not the best that will ever be. I am so sick of hearing MMO fans say there will never be anything greater than WoW, the fact that people think that is a option shows how screwed up this fan base is! I would quit playing RTS and FPS right now if I knew nothing ever would beat Doom or Dune, that means the genre is stagnate and the developers do not give a damn anymore. So why it is every MMO fan on this planet wants WoW to be the greatest MMO of all time and have nothing eclipse it? Are you guys just hoping it will lose its mainstream appeal and go back to being a niche market, so you can have your games back?
Because as a Fan of FPS and RTS I will always look fondly back on the great games of old but I will always be hoping for the next great thing to surpass them so they are just a twinkle. The day I start thinking those will always be the best is the day I know gaming is dead to me!
But have it your way WoW is the best MMO ever and nothing ever will come close to touching it!
I see a few people saying "im worried about the Community of GW2" but if im being real honist with you, im more worried about if GW2 does well and DOES "beat WoW" that means alot of the WoW community will come to GW2 and THAT is bad imo, dont get me wrong i know not all wow players are the same and i wont try to lable them all the same, but come on guys, even your cant say that WoW does not hold the largest community of MMORPG Dickheads that just play to fuck everyone elses fun up.
It does not matter if there are lots of "d-heads" in the community. It only matters if the game mechanism does not provide enough options for me to pretty much ignore them.
In WoW I can. I do not need to trade with them, if they buy my stuffs in the AH, I won't know, I only get my gold.
In WoW I can. I do not need to read what they say, I can filter my chat boxes.
In WoW I can raid with my own friends, and mine/craft on my own. They can compete with me on resource nodes, they can compete with me in AH, they can try to invite me to duels ... but that is part of social interaction, which I can live with.
So long as the main gameplay in WoW is still attractive, and that is where the problem is.
A good gameplay and ways to ignore the "d-heads" are all I need. I do not need to live with all saints to feel happy during the odd hours online. Only a few hours a week at most.
If we see in terms of sheer popularity i would still keep WOW on top. It will always be the most talked about and most popular MMO.
No it wont. Everquest used to be the top dog MMO everyone tried to kill. Now most MMOers have no clue what that game is. EQ was the first online game to have 500'000 players logged in at one time. Now 500'000 is the base line to have a MMO that can make real money so content keep flowing and still make a profit. WoW's days of glory will pass into the shadow as does all games.
When will the day be when WoW drop below 500k? 100k?
Without a date, your prediction is always right because your prediction can always come next year. year on year, until we all die. your prediction can outlive the earth as it has no expiry date.
I can see gw2 being popular. However Aion had very impressive graphics as well, and its flavor died very quickly cause in my opinion it was very poorly balanced. I have a feeling that the repetitvness in gw2 will hurt that title, and bring it down after several months. I do believe as with kotor. Swtor's playibility and re-rollibility will be legendary in comparison to any other MMO out there. I really do believe that more people will end up staying in swtor than people continuing with gw2. I also trully believe that a free to play MMO has no chance what so ever, contentwise or the longeviity of gameplay against a pay to play MMO.
GW2 does not need a chance against anyone, it just need to make enough profits for its investors to agreeing to a sequel.
That I think might be possible, and I hope it will happen.
Business does not need to be number 1 in anything. As long as the rate of return is high enough, and at least beats the average cost of capital raising, it is a success.
Pretty bold putting GW2 on first place, unles will be completely different then GW, game, that would stop to exist long ago if not fully f2p. Guess Rift would belong more apropriately on that place.
Pretty bold putting GW2 on first place, unles will be completely different then GW, game, that would stop to exist long ago if not fully f2p. Guess Rift would belong more apropriately on that place.
GW1 isn't F2P, and GW2 is a fully persistent proper AAA level MMORPG, while GW1 was just a CORPG.
Feel free to look up information on GW2 so you won't have to worry about being corrected on the super basic stuff.
I thought it was just another generic quest grinder, what did i miss?
And? it had a great smooth launch. Is well supported by a company and gets frequent content updates. It is one of the most successful MMOS to launch in recent years and has some great content updates lined up for year 2012.
Believe it or not but not everyone is jumping on unique and innovative bandwagon as these two factors are not guaranteed to make a game fun. Yes fun, the most important aspect of any MMO.
Comments
True on the GW1 part not so true on GW2 part. Actually the FaQ on their website makes this pretty clear. ArenaNET is going in direct competition with all the current MMORPG's.
This is only partially true. GW was indeed names a CORPG by ANet people, but GW2 will be a fully fledged MMORPG with everything that comes with it, and more.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Deep, yet so true.
Good thing GW2 doesn't actually have either one of those. Do your research.
GW2 is not the WoW clone you think it is.
It's not a gear based game, it will be pretty easy to get great statistical gear, and then there will be optional grinds past that for vanity and skins.
Combat is not FPS or twitch, but a more actiony version of traditional combat. Attacks and projectiles can be dodged. RNG is not involved there.
It really is questioning everything about the MMO genre, nothing is just copy and pasted from WoW. What they're doing with WvWvW PVP alone should be enough to excite the DAOC fan in you. Here's a list of innovations I compiled. Not all of them are truly original and have been inspired by other games, but it's still an impressive package to find them all in one place.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
10) Longtime AoC player here but left for good early this year. Honestly I think they missed their shot. I expect another round of server merges laet this year most likely but I am sure they will keep it going a while yet.
9) Aion I played the Beta & just never enjoyed it and found it uninspired. I am surprised it has survived as well as it has.
8) Not into LOTRO.
7) Required reading & knwledge is a significant barrier to entry for me, I love the sound of everything but I do not have the time anymore to sit down and really make this work.
6) Not interested.
5) Its interesting and every TSW story I read gets me excited for the game but then I remember its Funcom so they will screw up the launch for sure, then they will patch & patch & screw up balance & gameplay. I doubt I will touch this one and if I dont it wont be for 6-12 months after all the release drama is done with.
4) Really over fantasy games at the moment, need Sci-Fi Stat !
3) Really over fantasy games at the moment, need Sci-Fi Stat !
2) Even though I have pre-ordered I think Bioware / EA will regret their staggered launch decision. I think a game so heavily invested in storylines will be ruined by spoilers for those in countries excluded at launch and after the intital trail off of subscribers through months 2-3 I think they will struggle to gain more than they have lost each month after release (I suspect largely due to spoilers) meaning the peak subscriber number they get to is likely to be hit in launch week and never get any higher.
1) Really over fantasy games at the moment, need Sci-Fi Stat !
You don't have Archeage on the list? No way.
I haven't read past this post, but just at a random guess, I'm sure some GW2 fans will be correcting you here.
... so I won't bother.
I agree with you
You are right dude. Only SWTOR can blow WOW away. GW2 is just artificial hype . My list is ------
1-SWTOR
2-WOW
3-GW2 -- but only for a 3-4 months
I hope you enjoy eating crow. Be prepared to do it, in any case.
What is a true MMORPG, what is a false one? Who to decide?
Who disgrace the genre? A huge budget game that launches as unplayable and buggy (VG) or a game that delivers what it promises (Rift)?
Everybody love a list of fanatic promises, but it is not a game until it is playable. I can promise you that the online games in the next century will provide full body motion and real healing, when you alt receives a heal, your physical body got age-1 enhancement so you can live longer. Just wait and see.
Everyone you know who play Rift likes it? You mean everyone inside Rift you know, who are still playing? Do you know anyone inside Rift who left already? Can you still talk to those you once run in, inside Rift, and now already gone?
People still inside Rift after so many months would more likely than not, like Rift. Some people got burnt out or feel sad and left. That holds true for any game, nothing surprising.
For VG, what do you blame SoE for? For fixing the game and finally make it playable? Ok I will also blame SoE for saving VG instead of letting it fold. Bad SoE :-P
I don't know what order he'd put them in, but this guy probably at least agrees those belong as #1 and #2 on the list.
As long as WoW enhance its gameplay, graphics, audio constantly, Wow in 2020, if it still exist, will be so different from WoW now, that it can survive its competition.
New games, however well designed, has a lot of uphill fights to threaten WoW.
Being an old brand =/= decline. Old means it was first built years ago. It does not mean it will stay with that old built after years. Whether you like it or not is an opinion. Whether the new consumer base likes it or not dictates how fast it will decline, if it will decline.
Why is titan stupid? What do we know about titan? Is it a game about titans?
I failed to see why we need to hope titan to fail. Who gains from a failed mega project? We as gamers lose, that I am sure, as we have one less choice.
Lets complain when we see what we can buy.
Right now, you cannot even spent your money there.
After all, we are spending money everyday everywhere. I do not object to charging in principle, so long as I get my money's worth. It would be nice if everything is free, except the services I provide. But that is a logical fallacy once it is applied to everyone.
(LisXia just wanted to say not all of this is directed at your qoute)
Oh yes we can see the uphill battle all the other game genres have to face from the big game that brought it into the mainstream. Ever FPS has to still compete with the legacy of Doom and Wolfenstein. Oh and every RTS made now days has to compete with the legacy of Command& Conquer and Dune!
Why it is all MMO addicts think there genre is special and games will last forever and not eventually become legacy games? Because in all those healthy genres that are expanding and growing (FPS, RTS) those games are just legacy of things to come, not the best that will ever be. I am so sick of hearing MMO fans say there will never be anything greater than WoW, the fact that people think that is a option shows how screwed up this fan base is! I would quit playing RTS and FPS right now if I knew nothing ever would beat Doom or Dune, that means the genre is stagnate and the developers do not give a damn anymore. So why it is every MMO fan on this planet wants WoW to be the greatest MMO of all time and have nothing eclipse it? Are you guys just hoping it will lose its mainstream appeal and go back to being a niche market, so you can have your games back?
Because as a Fan of FPS and RTS I will always look fondly back on the great games of old but I will always be hoping for the next great thing to surpass them so they are just a twinkle. The day I start thinking those will always be the best is the day I know gaming is dead to me!
But have it your way WoW is the best MMO ever and nothing ever will come close to touching it!
It does not matter if there are lots of "d-heads" in the community. It only matters if the game mechanism does not provide enough options for me to pretty much ignore them.
In WoW I can. I do not need to trade with them, if they buy my stuffs in the AH, I won't know, I only get my gold.
In WoW I can. I do not need to read what they say, I can filter my chat boxes.
In WoW I can raid with my own friends, and mine/craft on my own. They can compete with me on resource nodes, they can compete with me in AH, they can try to invite me to duels ... but that is part of social interaction, which I can live with.
So long as the main gameplay in WoW is still attractive, and that is where the problem is.
A good gameplay and ways to ignore the "d-heads" are all I need. I do not need to live with all saints to feel happy during the odd hours online. Only a few hours a week at most.
When will the day be when WoW drop below 500k? 100k?
Without a date, your prediction is always right because your prediction can always come next year. year on year, until we all die. your prediction can outlive the earth as it has no expiry date.
GW2 does not need a chance against anyone, it just need to make enough profits for its investors to agreeing to a sequel.
That I think might be possible, and I hope it will happen.
Business does not need to be number 1 in anything. As long as the rate of return is high enough, and at least beats the average cost of capital raising, it is a success.
Pretty bold putting GW2 on first place, unles will be completely different then GW, game, that would stop to exist long ago if not fully f2p. Guess Rift would belong more apropriately on that place.
GW1 isn't F2P, and GW2 is a fully persistent proper AAA level MMORPG, while GW1 was just a CORPG.
Feel free to look up information on GW2 so you won't have to worry about being corrected on the super basic stuff.
Rift? Seriously?
I thought it was just another generic quest grinder, what did i miss?
And? it had a great smooth launch. Is well supported by a company and gets frequent content updates. It is one of the most successful MMOS to launch in recent years and has some great content updates lined up for year 2012.
Believe it or not but not everyone is jumping on unique and innovative bandwagon as these two factors are not guaranteed to make a game fun. Yes fun, the most important aspect of any MMO.