I didn't read anywhere where the developers said there isn't going to be abilities that allow players to heal others at all. They will be in the game. Just put a bunch of healbot/support abilities on your hotbar.
Abilities will be there but not enough nor powerful to fulfill this important role but if they bring back a class like the Ilusionist that would be awesome.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I didn't read anywhere where the developers said there isn't going to be abilities that allow players to heal others at all. They will be in the game. Just put a bunch of healbot/support abilities on your hotbar.
Abilities will be there but not enough nor powerful to fulfill this important role but if they bring back a class like the Ilusionist that would be awesome.
Which is fine. Players will still appreciate other players who decide to put those abilities on their hotbar. I know I will. Hell, I'll probably have them on my hotbar as well.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
So my coworker was looking at my phone while I watched some gw2 pvp. He said that looks cool but I don't see a healer. So I told him there are no dedicated healers in this game. So his reply? That's dumb so how am I gonna survive in the game. I told him that you are self reliant and mostly depend on yourself. He said that's stupid why am I gonna play a game where im going to die all the time im not playing that dumb game and proceeded to list several(noobish) reasons why wow is better and told me to play dc universe instead. Discuss.
That's completely his right. In a way, I completely understand his thinking. If everyone has the same basic role, DPS and self healing, what's the point of grouping?
When you are in the heat of battle and have so much to keep track of, and particularly in this game where you can now move away from and dodge attacks, there are going to be some players that don't have coordination/ability or even the desire to have to also keep track of their own health, that's what the dedicated healers role has always been there for.
Well lets take WoW in consideration, If you take tanks and heals out the game, what do you have? Still mostly DPS. And the DPS roll is basically "I do damage, sit here and faceroll, move out of fire and I get lewt". Now yes there are mechanics that focus on you doing more than DPS, some even involving team work and organization and coordination, but thats about it. Your job is just to do damage and you don't even have to really try to live because someone else makes sure you do. That's what a dedicated healers job is, that's entirely the point. If you play a game like God Of War, is there a tank there to help you or a healer for you to get health? No, you just do damage and dodge attacks and rely on mechanics for your survival, including self healing to an extent. I know that is a single player game with RPG elements, but think about a game where you are no longer supported directly through someone taking all of the damage or refilling your health. By drawing this comparison, in a way you're making my point for me about not needing to group, if you are self reliant in the same way .
Now, yes there are players that don't have a high reaction time or aren't as skilled as some others, but that is what Content Scaling is for. Things should not be made easier overall just to accomidate those who are less skilled, let them tackle less difficult content and when they do get better they can move up. Because I'm pretty sure it gets boring beating God Of War on normal difficulty, you wanna move it up higher and challenge yourself.
God of War is played on the console with a controller. There are what, a total of 6 buttons and the 'joy stick' to worry about. MMORPG's on the PC have WASD movement or mouse movement, 8-10 skill keys on just one row of the skill bar, tab keys/hot keys for targetting, macros, and now add in whatever dodging you have to do in this game, it's got to be different and likely more difficult then using a dodge stick and hitting X at the same time to block, or Y to drink a pot while you're dodging.
Am I saying I"m not going to buy it, no. Will I miss the healer, yes.
The game isn't built around a dedicated healer, or a dedicated anything. They actually anticipate that people will hand off roles during extended encounters. Hate in the game is directed at the character closest to the mob and that updates quickly. So, rather than a dedicated tank, someone will get in close and make themselves the target until their ability to deal with the mob dwindles, then they will back out and someone else will get in close.
Everyone has access to self healing, but that doesn't mean there won't be additional healing and support skills to keep team mates alive. I've noticed a few classes have such skills and I have a feeling Mesmer will as well. These skills are all location based, not ui based, so there will never be someone sitting in the back clicking constantly on the UI to keep the team alive. There will also be responsibility put on people to keep themselves alive, not just through self healing, but by being aware of where they need to move to for healing and when they need to break aggro so someone else can grab it.
From what I understand, no class can be so loaded with healing/support spells that the cooldowns will allow them to do nothing but spam thoose skills. People will need to adjust their tactics during the course of the fight and learn what role they should be filling from second to second. Also, the healing/support spells are fire and forget, so even people who take on support roles will have plenty of combat action as well.
It's going to be different and I'm sure some groups will wipe on difficult content until people learn how to play. However, I like the fact that ANet tests party content with many kinds of groups and have stated that they anticipate that even groups where all the members are of the same profession will be able to handle the content, with the proper tactics. They don't want any group to have to wait for a particular class or a particular build before the group can tackle group content. Good players of any profession mix should be able to handle group content through smart play.
It seems you made a tactical mistake in presenting the game to your co-worker. Just tell him that instead of there being "no dedicated healers" in the game, tell him that "in GW2 everybody is a healer." Which is also true lol...
However, sensing the thickness in your coworker I imagine he'll retort with "then the game is too easy!" Hehe. Some people simply don't have enough imagination. I guess you'll do better by just letting him alone in his closed world and simply showing him the game once it comes out.
If you want to stop speculating and get a real idea of how this combat works, read these two articles. OP, you may want to point your friend towards these too.
"Support players want to be able to say, "Remember that one time when I saved you from certain death?" They want to stand in the line of fire and block attacks. They want to surround their allies with a swirling dome of air that keeps enemy projectiles from passing through it. It's not about clicking on a health bar and watching it go up, it's about being there for your friends when they need you."
"Don't belittle the SUPPORT role by calling it heal. Healing is the least dynamic kind of support there is. It is reactive instead of proactive. Healing is for when you are already losing. In Guild Wars 2 we prefer that you support your allies before they take a beating. Sure, there are some healing spells in Guild Wars 2, but they make up a small portion of the support lines that are spread throughout the professions. Other kinds of support include buffs, active defense, and cross-profession combinations."
Your friend has a point...GW2 problems that look good in theory are: no dedicated healer, no open world pvp confrontation with enemy faction, the active dodging that you have to dodge attacks manually, and maybe more stuff that looks good in paper...but in reality might be bad.
Except that none of the things being discussed in this thread are "on paper" anymore...they are all implemented in the game and hundreds of people have played them. In reality...they work and it's quite good.
I also think you're quite wrong about folks in the genre...I think many, many players have been looking for something new and fresh and more visceral when it comes to combat, without turning things completely into a twitch-fest. I'm guessing once the MMORPG community at large is able to get the hang of GW2 combat, they are going to love it and never be able to go back to the stale me-too games we've been playing for so long.
To be honest, I think there will be many more ways to support your allies than in a game where you are stuck with a single role in combat.
This! Every class can support others in many ways. Cross-profession combos, boons, wards, envioremental weapons, shouts, blocking projectiles, water magic..etc. There's much more possibilities than having one dedicated role.
I pretty much quit AoC for this same reason. No real healer class. Well, some healer classes but without targeted heals, only some weak ass aoe HoTs and a weak ass aoe heal on a stupidly long CD.
I always play healer, I hate damage dealing - Guess this isn't the game for me.
Anet had no choice. They are determinated to destroy the holy trinity. If they let healing class to be part of the game, everything is for nothing. When the trial comes. Give it a try, maybe you will find a class that you didn't know you like.
There is no dedicated healer class but i am sure with combination of skills players will come up with something close. It is quite possible.
yes it is. Guardian is the class closest to the healing. He can protect his allies in many ways. He is a combination of protection monk, paragorn and a warrior from guild wars 1.
There is no dedicated healer class but i am sure with combination of skills players will come up with something close. It is quite possible.
No, it's not actually
Arena Net explicitly said there's absolutely no way to become a dedicated healer simply because the game doesn't support it, i.e. there's no ally targetted skills in the game. Support and healing come in the form of proactive counter measures or AoE effects, but none of the healing done in the game comes close to what your dedicated healing slot skills are designed to do, which is to heal you when you're taking or have taken a lot of damage. To keep from taking damage in the first place, players will rely heavily on those proactive counter measures I mentioned, and skillful use of dodging to evade blows from your enemy.
There is no dedicated healer class but i am sure with combination of skills players will come up with something close. It is quite possible.
yes it is. Guardian is the class closest to the healing. He can protect his allies in many ways. He is a combination of protection monk, paragorn and a warrior from guild wars 1.
The difference between protection and healing is the former is proactive while the latter is reactive. The latter requires you to be looking at your user interface while the former requires you to be looking at the center of your screen focusing on the action, and what's going on.
This is not a new idea Guildwars 2 has come up with. City of Heroes/Villians had classes that could heal but not directly either. For instance the transfusion on the kinetic defender or corruptor could heal but it was in an area near the mob. So you had to get close to the mob to get healed. It was enough to keep people who knew how to play alive. Those who refused to learn died.
In Villians it went furthur and you had to have shields cast on you to reduce incoming damage and you debuffed mobs to kingdom come to reduce their damage output. Real direct healing was very limited and pathetic when it launched and you had to play smartly to survive. Best missions I played and most exciting PvE ever where everyone actually took responsibility for their own health and not expect some other class to just heal through their stupidity.
People get nervous when they cannot place the burden of their hitpoints on some one else. They get insecure and think this idea will fail. You have no idea how exciting this gameplay is until you have tried it and played with a good group of individuals who paid attention. With City of X you could save someone by controlling a mob and they moved back then you shielded them or used your own health to heal them while they use a heal inspiration if they have one or moved back and waited to heal when a next AOE heal is cast. Yes everyone really were on their toes. My god what a great game that was. Wish more people played it and appreciated its mechanics more.
Having played many many healers myself and having been abused as one too I am sincerely thrilled at this prospect and look forward to Guildwars II to throw off the shackles of the healer mentality most games seem to straddle themselves with.
There is no dedicated healer class but i am sure with combination of skills players will come up with something close. It is quite possible.
No, it's not actually
Arena Net explicitly said there's absolutely no way to become a dedicated healer simply because the game doesn't support it, i.e. there's no ally targetted skills in the game. Support and healing come in the form of proactive counter measures or AoE effects, but none of the healing done in the game comes close to what your dedicated healing slot skills are designed to do, which is to heal you when you're taking or have taken a lot of damage. To keep from taking damage in the first place, players will rely heavily on those proactive counter measures I mentioned, and skillful use of dodging to evade blows from your enemy.
OP made a great post to stir up discussion... well done.
The concept of standing around and watching health meters has always boggled my mind. I don't believe for a second that ANY person has EVER liked that experience.
How could they? Im many cases the entire experience takes away from the action happning in front of them, the cool effects, positional attacks, awesome animations - and boils down to watching which green bar has moved.
With my inflammatory statement complete, I will say that I think many people LOVE the attention and feeling of being NEEDED that comes along with playing a healer. Any type of group content in traditional MMOs requires some healing class (even if a hybrid) if it is being done at the expected level.
What I absolutely love about this system is how it feels like Diablo. Sure, Diablo games have always had health potions to quaff by the dozen, but they have been really about defeating your enemies before they defeat you. Each class contributes its own gameplay experience towards dealing damage, with different specs to balance offense and defense. In Diablo (1/2), you can dodge enemy attacks to preserve your health and resources. GW2 has taken these concepts and enhanced them further, with concepts around extensive buffing/de-buffing to mitigate damage and shared healing abilities across all classes as opposed to potions.
I've heard theres no real tanking going on either, it's a free for all in combat. Still, new ideas and all that..
I might be wrong but i feel that DE events will just end up like a huge zerg and so will WvsWvsW. We will see on release. it could be something really interesting or a complete mess.
However I don't consider 'real tanking' real tanking at all
stay in the background while one player keep aggroing mobs
and your only job as a dps u know to dps.. well I consider that boring.
And then that player dies, and you are next in line for the wooping the boss is gonna give you, ofc no other players will step in and try to help you, since they are all to busy being dps behind you
Well lets take WoW in consideration, If you take tanks and heals out the game, what do you have? Still mostly DPS. And the DPS roll is basically "I do damage, sit here and faceroll, move out of fire and I get lewt". Now yes there are mechanics that focus on you doing more than DPS, some even involving team work and organization and coordination, but thats about it. Your job is just to do damage and you don't even have to really try to live because someone else makes sure you do. That's what a dedicated healers job is, that's entirely the point. If you play a game like God Of War, is there a tank there to help you or a healer for you to get health? No, you just do damage and dodge attacks and rely on mechanics for your survival, including self healing to an extent. I know that is a single player game with RPG elements, but think about a game where you are no longer supported directly through someone taking all of the damage or refilling your health. By drawing this comparison, in a way you're making my point for me about not needing to group, if you are self reliant in the same way .
Now, yes there are players that don't have a high reaction time or aren't as skilled as some others, but that is what Content Scaling is for. Things should not be made easier overall just to accomidate those who are less skilled, let them tackle less difficult content and when they do get better they can move up. Because I'm pretty sure it gets boring beating God Of War on normal difficulty, you wanna move it up higher and challenge yourself.
God of War is played on the console with a controller. There are what, a total of 6 buttons and the 'joy stick' to worry about. MMORPG's on the PC have WASD movement or mouse movement, 8-10 skill keys on just one row of the skill bar, tab keys/hot keys for targetting, macros, and now add in whatever dodging you have to do in this game, it's got to be different and likely more difficult then using a dodge stick and hitting X at the same time to block, or Y to drink a pot while you're dodging.
Am I saying I"m not going to buy it, no. Will I miss the healer, yes.
Unfortunately, you aren't understanding my point. Just because you are self reliant, doesn't mean you don't need to group. Their events are designed to encourage players to come to gether and accomplish the same goal(if you watch the gameplay footage and check ou their interviews/confrences you would see what I mean). I made a comparison to God Of War so you could understand my point, but I guess you didn't. There are RPS where a healer is required, steming from old Turn Based RPG, where in most situations, damage is unavoidable. So what is the point of being able to move? In WoW and similar games it is designed for you to take the damage, and thus you need a healer. Games can be designed without this concept; rendering the need for a healer useless. An RPG isn't defined by the healer class, an MMO isn't defined by someone directly being the root cause of your survival. Being a healer or tank is not the only form of bringing players together; that is what defacto grouping is defined by. I'm sure players can play several games online(from FPS to action games) without having to heal each other, so long as they can come up with a strategy and have enough skill to proceed.
So if your telling me Healers and tanks are a direct requirement for players to come together, or even for less skilled players to be successful in places they shouldn't, I dissagree. Regardless of what controls someone uses, because I can use a controller to play a PC game(including MMO), because all of the same control scheme's you've listed can, and have been applied to console MMORPGS. So it isn't a matter of controls, nor is it a matter of game because I see you took the literal comparison of an Action Game to an MMO, where I'm just trying to point out that combat isn't as linear as the Trinity, It has, and will continue to evolve to accomidate skill and test players.
As far as missing healing, I WIL NOT miss healing in PVP, But as a roll in PVE, Kinda, I started healing on my shaman again and it is fun keeping people up who don't know mechanics, but it gets extremely old very very fast.(Just me, no offence; if you like it thats your boat)
So my coworker was looking at my phone while I watched some gw2 pvp. He said that looks cool but I don't see a healer. So I told him there are no dedicated healers in this game. So his reply? That's dumb so how am I gonna survive in the game. I told him that you are self reliant and mostly depend on yourself. He said that's stupid why am I gonna play a game where im going to die all the time im not playing that dumb game and proceeded to list several(noobish) reasons why wow is better and told me to play dc universe instead. Discuss.
The first part is fine, everybody has their personal preferences for what they want out of a fame.
The second part, not so good; "you really need to play <x> instead". Gamers seem to be unable to leave that part off. Why do I have to play the game you like? Can't I play a game that I like?
Big market, lots of options. We don't all need to be playing the same game.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I've heard theres no real tanking going on either, it's a free for all in combat. Still, new ideas and all that..
This is not true, just because the game does not have taunts does not mean there is not a way to control enemy units. In fact ever profession has weapons and utilityelite skills they can use for that purpose. A guardian can place wards and shields up to control movement and damage, a warrior can stun with a mace or his shield, a thief can use their mobility to kite the enemy, a Engineer can use turrets, landmines, and grenades to control where the enemy moves, and so on a so forth. Here is an example of a warrior setup for control: http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=301ba962a6f1282b630b3;33090d532f82ea2a802341550&switch=301b905
The same is true about there not be a dedicated healer, every class has ways they can support their allies! But with that no bar setup is going to be 100% support at least from what we know right now, just like no bar setup is going to be 100% control. People are going to have to be flexible if they want to be a good player in this game. It still boggles my mind that people in this thread are saying you can play 100% support when there are tools out there to look at builds and see that this is a lie. Yes you can be mostly support but you are still going to have more function than that in combat. Here are two support builds one is a Guardian and the other an Elementalist: http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=2f278502b630b21163;3402131302f12236c8b1d6cae2&switch=2b630ad31http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=32f81502b630ad78b73;3214e9433ec4c82a8042814ea&switch=2b630ad31
So if you just like watching health bars go up or using taunts then this game is not for you. If you like proactively supporting your allies and using abilities to control mobs in group combat then this game might be for you. For anyone saying that this game is going to be free for all or just a zerg you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Go read the articles from the explorer mode dungeons and then say that, because there is no way after reading the tons of articles out there you can say that!
I've heard theres no real tanking going on either, it's a free for all in combat. Still, new ideas and all that..
Guildwars released in 2005 without tanks. It worked then and will work now.
The new idea is taking away the dedicated healer as well. That sould work fine, at least in theory, but I have to play a few of the harder dungeons to say that for sure.
Comments
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/guild-wars-2-has-no-healers-or-tanks
Abilities will be there but not enough nor powerful to fulfill this important role but if they bring back a class like the Ilusionist that would be awesome.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
Which is fine. Players will still appreciate other players who decide to put those abilities on their hotbar. I know I will. Hell, I'll probably have them on my hotbar as well.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
God of War is played on the console with a controller. There are what, a total of 6 buttons and the 'joy stick' to worry about. MMORPG's on the PC have WASD movement or mouse movement, 8-10 skill keys on just one row of the skill bar, tab keys/hot keys for targetting, macros, and now add in whatever dodging you have to do in this game, it's got to be different and likely more difficult then using a dodge stick and hitting X at the same time to block, or Y to drink a pot while you're dodging.
Am I saying I"m not going to buy it, no. Will I miss the healer, yes.
The game isn't built around a dedicated healer, or a dedicated anything. They actually anticipate that people will hand off roles during extended encounters. Hate in the game is directed at the character closest to the mob and that updates quickly. So, rather than a dedicated tank, someone will get in close and make themselves the target until their ability to deal with the mob dwindles, then they will back out and someone else will get in close.
Everyone has access to self healing, but that doesn't mean there won't be additional healing and support skills to keep team mates alive. I've noticed a few classes have such skills and I have a feeling Mesmer will as well. These skills are all location based, not ui based, so there will never be someone sitting in the back clicking constantly on the UI to keep the team alive. There will also be responsibility put on people to keep themselves alive, not just through self healing, but by being aware of where they need to move to for healing and when they need to break aggro so someone else can grab it.
From what I understand, no class can be so loaded with healing/support spells that the cooldowns will allow them to do nothing but spam thoose skills. People will need to adjust their tactics during the course of the fight and learn what role they should be filling from second to second. Also, the healing/support spells are fire and forget, so even people who take on support roles will have plenty of combat action as well.
It's going to be different and I'm sure some groups will wipe on difficult content until people learn how to play. However, I like the fact that ANet tests party content with many kinds of groups and have stated that they anticipate that even groups where all the members are of the same profession will be able to handle the content, with the proper tactics. They don't want any group to have to wait for a particular class or a particular build before the group can tackle group content. Good players of any profession mix should be able to handle group content through smart play.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
To OP:
It seems you made a tactical mistake in presenting the game to your co-worker. Just tell him that instead of there being "no dedicated healers" in the game, tell him that "in GW2 everybody is a healer." Which is also true lol...
However, sensing the thickness in your coworker I imagine he'll retort with "then the game is too easy!" Hehe. Some people simply don't have enough imagination. I guess you'll do better by just letting him alone in his closed world and simply showing him the game once it comes out.
If you want to stop speculating and get a real idea of how this combat works, read these two articles. OP, you may want to point your friend towards these too.
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/
http://www.arena.net/blog/jon-peters-talks-combat#more-4069
"Support players want to be able to say, "Remember that one time when I saved you from certain death?" They want to stand in the line of fire and block attacks. They want to surround their allies with a swirling dome of air that keeps enemy projectiles from passing through it. It's not about clicking on a health bar and watching it go up, it's about being there for your friends when they need you."
"Don't belittle the SUPPORT role by calling it heal. Healing is the least dynamic kind of support there is. It is reactive instead of proactive. Healing is for when you are already losing. In Guild Wars 2 we prefer that you support your allies before they take a beating. Sure, there are some healing spells in Guild Wars 2, but they make up a small portion of the support lines that are spread throughout the professions. Other kinds of support include buffs, active defense, and cross-profession combinations."
Except that none of the things being discussed in this thread are "on paper" anymore...they are all implemented in the game and hundreds of people have played them. In reality...they work and it's quite good.
I also think you're quite wrong about folks in the genre...I think many, many players have been looking for something new and fresh and more visceral when it comes to combat, without turning things completely into a twitch-fest. I'm guessing once the MMORPG community at large is able to get the hang of GW2 combat, they are going to love it and never be able to go back to the stale me-too games we've been playing for so long.
This! Every class can support others in many ways. Cross-profession combos, boons, wards, envioremental weapons, shouts, blocking projectiles, water magic..etc. There's much more possibilities than having one dedicated role.
ALso folks who didn't read this two:
http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/
http://www.arena.net/blog/jon-peters-talks-combat#more-4069
don't have the right to post anything here..
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Anet had no choice. They are determinated to destroy the holy trinity. If they let healing class to be part of the game, everything is for nothing. When the trial comes. Give it a try, maybe you will find a class that you didn't know you like.
Guild Wars 2 Youtube Croatian Maniacs
My Guild Wars titles
There is no dedicated healer class but i am sure with combination of skills players will come up with something close. It is quite possible.
yes it is. Guardian is the class closest to the healing. He can protect his allies in many ways. He is a combination of protection monk, paragorn and a warrior from guild wars 1.
Guild Wars 2 Youtube Croatian Maniacs
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No, it's not actually
Arena Net explicitly said there's absolutely no way to become a dedicated healer simply because the game doesn't support it, i.e. there's no ally targetted skills in the game. Support and healing come in the form of proactive counter measures or AoE effects, but none of the healing done in the game comes close to what your dedicated healing slot skills are designed to do, which is to heal you when you're taking or have taken a lot of damage. To keep from taking damage in the first place, players will rely heavily on those proactive counter measures I mentioned, and skillful use of dodging to evade blows from your enemy.
The difference between protection and healing is the former is proactive while the latter is reactive. The latter requires you to be looking at your user interface while the former requires you to be looking at the center of your screen focusing on the action, and what's going on.
This is not a new idea Guildwars 2 has come up with. City of Heroes/Villians had classes that could heal but not directly either. For instance the transfusion on the kinetic defender or corruptor could heal but it was in an area near the mob. So you had to get close to the mob to get healed. It was enough to keep people who knew how to play alive. Those who refused to learn died.
In Villians it went furthur and you had to have shields cast on you to reduce incoming damage and you debuffed mobs to kingdom come to reduce their damage output. Real direct healing was very limited and pathetic when it launched and you had to play smartly to survive. Best missions I played and most exciting PvE ever where everyone actually took responsibility for their own health and not expect some other class to just heal through their stupidity.
People get nervous when they cannot place the burden of their hitpoints on some one else. They get insecure and think this idea will fail. You have no idea how exciting this gameplay is until you have tried it and played with a good group of individuals who paid attention. With City of X you could save someone by controlling a mob and they moved back then you shielded them or used your own health to heal them while they use a heal inspiration if they have one or moved back and waited to heal when a next AOE heal is cast. Yes everyone really were on their toes. My god what a great game that was. Wish more people played it and appreciated its mechanics more.
Having played many many healers myself and having been abused as one too I am sincerely thrilled at this prospect and look forward to Guildwars II to throw off the shackles of the healer mentality most games seem to straddle themselves with.
I said something quite close.
OP made a great post to stir up discussion... well done.
The concept of standing around and watching health meters has always boggled my mind. I don't believe for a second that ANY person has EVER liked that experience.
How could they? Im many cases the entire experience takes away from the action happning in front of them, the cool effects, positional attacks, awesome animations - and boils down to watching which green bar has moved.
With my inflammatory statement complete, I will say that I think many people LOVE the attention and feeling of being NEEDED that comes along with playing a healer. Any type of group content in traditional MMOs requires some healing class (even if a hybrid) if it is being done at the expected level.
What I absolutely love about this system is how it feels like Diablo. Sure, Diablo games have always had health potions to quaff by the dozen, but they have been really about defeating your enemies before they defeat you. Each class contributes its own gameplay experience towards dealing damage, with different specs to balance offense and defense. In Diablo (1/2), you can dodge enemy attacks to preserve your health and resources. GW2 has taken these concepts and enhanced them further, with concepts around extensive buffing/de-buffing to mitigate damage and shared healing abilities across all classes as opposed to potions.
I've heard theres no real tanking going on either, it's a free for all in combat. Still, new ideas and all that..
I might be wrong but i feel that DE events will just end up like a huge zerg and so will WvsWvsW. We will see on release. it could be something really interesting or a complete mess.
Yeah, mobs target the closest reachable player.
However I don't consider 'real tanking' real tanking at all
stay in the background while one player keep aggroing mobs
and your only job as a dps u know to dps.. well I consider that boring.
SexuaLobster's Grease Portal
And then that player dies, and you are next in line for the wooping the boss is gonna give you, ofc no other players will step in and try to help you, since they are all to busy being dps behind you
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
Unfortunately, you aren't understanding my point. Just because you are self reliant, doesn't mean you don't need to group. Their events are designed to encourage players to come to gether and accomplish the same goal(if you watch the gameplay footage and check ou their interviews/confrences you would see what I mean). I made a comparison to God Of War so you could understand my point, but I guess you didn't. There are RPS where a healer is required, steming from old Turn Based RPG, where in most situations, damage is unavoidable. So what is the point of being able to move? In WoW and similar games it is designed for you to take the damage, and thus you need a healer. Games can be designed without this concept; rendering the need for a healer useless. An RPG isn't defined by the healer class, an MMO isn't defined by someone directly being the root cause of your survival. Being a healer or tank is not the only form of bringing players together; that is what defacto grouping is defined by. I'm sure players can play several games online(from FPS to action games) without having to heal each other, so long as they can come up with a strategy and have enough skill to proceed.
So if your telling me Healers and tanks are a direct requirement for players to come together, or even for less skilled players to be successful in places they shouldn't, I dissagree. Regardless of what controls someone uses, because I can use a controller to play a PC game(including MMO), because all of the same control scheme's you've listed can, and have been applied to console MMORPGS. So it isn't a matter of controls, nor is it a matter of game because I see you took the literal comparison of an Action Game to an MMO, where I'm just trying to point out that combat isn't as linear as the Trinity, It has, and will continue to evolve to accomidate skill and test players.
As far as missing healing, I WIL NOT miss healing in PVP, But as a roll in PVE, Kinda, I started healing on my shaman again and it is fun keeping people up who don't know mechanics, but it gets extremely old very very fast.(Just me, no offence; if you like it thats your boat)
The first part is fine, everybody has their personal preferences for what they want out of a fame.
The second part, not so good; "you really need to play <x> instead". Gamers seem to be unable to leave that part off. Why do I have to play the game you like? Can't I play a game that I like?
Big market, lots of options. We don't all need to be playing the same game.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
This is not true, just because the game does not have taunts does not mean there is not a way to control enemy units. In fact ever profession has weapons and utilityelite skills they can use for that purpose. A guardian can place wards and shields up to control movement and damage, a warrior can stun with a mace or his shield, a thief can use their mobility to kite the enemy, a Engineer can use turrets, landmines, and grenades to control where the enemy moves, and so on a so forth. Here is an example of a warrior setup for control: http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=301ba962a6f1282b630b3;33090d532f82ea2a802341550&switch=301b905
The same is true about there not be a dedicated healer, every class has ways they can support their allies! But with that no bar setup is going to be 100% support at least from what we know right now, just like no bar setup is going to be 100% control. People are going to have to be flexible if they want to be a good player in this game. It still boggles my mind that people in this thread are saying you can play 100% support when there are tools out there to look at builds and see that this is a lie. Yes you can be mostly support but you are still going to have more function than that in combat. Here are two support builds one is a Guardian and the other an Elementalist: http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=2f278502b630b21163;3402131302f12236c8b1d6cae2&switch=2b630ad31 http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=32f81502b630ad78b73;3214e9433ec4c82a8042814ea&switch=2b630ad31
So if you just like watching health bars go up or using taunts then this game is not for you. If you like proactively supporting your allies and using abilities to control mobs in group combat then this game might be for you. For anyone saying that this game is going to be free for all or just a zerg you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Go read the articles from the explorer mode dungeons and then say that, because there is no way after reading the tons of articles out there you can say that!
Guildwars released in 2005 without tanks. It worked then and will work now.
The new idea is taking away the dedicated healer as well. That sould work fine, at least in theory, but I have to play a few of the harder dungeons to say that for sure.