I put neutral to raiding. The only time i dont like raiding is when i have to the same instance 1000 times to get a piece of gear. Raiding shouldnt be a chore, but fun. I cant wait to try out SWTOR's raiding system.
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All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
i raided for over 4 years in WoW and came from 'loved raiding' to almost 'hated raiding' . My problem with it is not time needed for it, I could still find it. My issues are 2 :
- can't stand dramas that come with it anymore, my Aion or WAR guilds atmosphere were so different to WoW or Rift, much less conflicts over petty stupid things like loot , much less 'dramatic' .
- don't want to have my 'fun time' organized on schedule and you cant do raid instance without it.
I had this same realisation between WoW an WAR recently. Not because of the games perse, but because of what I was doing in them. My WoW guild was a drama on a shedule. My WAR guild was all about unscheduled collaboration.
I made the decision after that to stick to small group dungeons and pvp. I dont want what raids have to offer.
Instanced raiding taking down big bosses can be a lot of fun with the right people. Open world pvp/pve raids are some of the most fun Ive had in an mmo.
I can only speak based on my experiences in World of Warcraft...
In that regard, I actually despise raiding. There isn't much of an incentive for me to raid at level cap, because raid gear is used for... more raiding...
I'd rather get PvP gear so I can defend myself from other players.
Outside of gear, however, I find raiding a dungeon even once to be rather boring, no matter what role I choose to play in the group. In my mind everything from 5-mans to 25-mans just boil down to doing the same ability rotation over and over (more or less) and repositioning for whatever cheesy mechanics the fights call for.
In terms of raiders, the people who enjoy raiding, my experiences with them have been bitter, which has led me to view them as anal, number crunching tyrants who will not only kick you from a raiding group if you slack just a little, but may even kick you from a guild altogether. That sort of elitist behavior has always bothered me. I feel as long as someone is doing a even a decent job of pulling their own weight, they should by all means attempt to get better, but being kicked like a deviant is a bit much. I'm sure not all raiding guilds/groups are like that, of course, that's just my general impression of them; the first image I see in my mind when someone says the word, "raider".
Despite all of that, it more or less all comes down to doing the same thing over and over again. Sure, you could say PvP is doing the same thing over and over in terms of goals in, say, battlegrounds, but you'll always have the factors of the enemy players in the mix to shake things up. Raiding will always be the same scripted mechanics over and over and over, which is a real turn off for me.
High risk, high maintenance, large time investment - - little payoff.
I don't mind if raiding is in a game though, as long as it's lame qualities do not overshadow PvP, or other features of the game I enjoy (which was the case for WoW, which is partly why I quit).
It ruins communities, promotes elitism and forces developers to spend obscenely huge amounts of time creating content for the smallest playerbase.
I used to raid in WoW, and let me tell you it took me 6 years to figure out how idiotic a system it is. I recently went back to my beloved Asherons Call, and the difference of playing a game without raiding and 1 that does is proof positive that raiding is a dieing system. I just hope that enough developers latch on to the whole GW2 model and do away with raiding as the sole source of endgame content altogether!
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I honestly dislike raiding nowdays, there was a tipping point during my time with AoC that turned me from a successfull 3 nights a week raider into someone who loathes raiding.
I particularly detest Raiding as developers Number 1 goto at endgame, I also think it is pure Folly to invest such intensive ammounts of time & resources on building Raid content that stats show is only ever experienced by a small percentage of your player base.
Time that could be better spent on something like an end game Random instance generator for both 4-6 man Groups & Solo play. They could still make it hard based on the group going in and then dole out "Raid level" loot.
Raiding to me nowdays feels like a huge timesink & at the end of a raid session you may not even have anything personally to show for it and in many cases the entire raid is pointless as the gear that drops goes to rott for various reasons.
My thoughts echo many of the ones already posted. I do like raiding at its core, but not the drama and other BS that often accompanies it. I would like it if every member of the raid was able to walk away with equal rewards so that things would be fair and fun for all involved. I'm hoping SWTOR has some fun raids, as I definatley plan to be involved.
I do not think much of it. I enjoy going with some Kinnies and doing a bit of it now and then though. I do enjoy six mans much more Not sure why I just find them more fun. Though I Do not care one way or another. I dont have to have the best gear. No one does really. Just know how to play your class and you do more then fine in most games.
If everything is going right- everyone showed up, no one's being an asshat in vent, people aren't complaining about the loot rules that were posted as part of their raid invite, people aren't whispering me that SoAndSo only did XXXX DPS last fight and I should kick them and invite Dpskingzilla instead- I love it. I even love wiping if we're learning fights and people aren't being babies about it.
But when you have people with the "I'm more important than the group" and "everyone, listen to what I can do in vent!" mentality, I can really do without it.
Like some others have posted, I work long hours, and I have always resented the ides of ring-fencing x number of hours y times a week for raiding.
In most games I play, I play longer hours than the hardcore raiders, but on my own schedule. I have friends that live to raid, and I wouldn't want them to have to do without something in a game they enjoy (for some of them, it's the only thing that keeps them logging in).
So, I'm neutral, I can live without it (probably the thing I care least about in a game) but I still like having the option to do it.
This is more the "have cake so you can eat it if you ever feel like it" stance.
1. I dislike the fact that often raids are designed so that the members have to cooperate to complete the content yet at the same time compete with each other to get the rewards that are used to lure them to the raids, we all know what the effects of this are.
2. I dislike scripted fights that unfold near enough the same way each time. Nothing turned me off more than the raid leader saying 'ok the boss is at x health, event y is about to happen, everybody sharpen up'.
3. I dislike raid rewards often being the best rewards in the game as it doesn't necessarily reflect an individual's skill, all you need is time, a little dedication and competent social skills. If you are going to give the best rewards for group play then it should be based off of small groups, as group size increases the skill level of any single individual constituent generally has less of an impact overall.
That being said, I know that is not what this thread is about so back on topic.:
Yes, I enjoy raiding but only if the focus is on having fun. By this, I mean the developers have designed the raid on the basis of fun being the reward.
It seems a good amount of the consensus here is that raiding is silly.
Good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so.
At any rate, why do you all think WoW focuses so much on raiding? And I use the term "focus" lightly... Nowadays they've been slacking, or at least seem to be slacking, in the content department.
Why do people raid at all if it's so inconsequential?
I find my opinions changing as time goes by, but here's how I feel about raiding right now.
I like the concept. I like the idea of a large group of people banding together in a desperate struggle to defeat a major evil. However, here is the reality of the implementation:
1) Difficulty is either so hard only the super-elitists can kill a boss; or so easy 10 braindead chimpanzees can roll face through it.
2) Slot drama (We don''t need anoy more of this class; My best friend wants to go and even though you need loot and he doesn't we want him; Yes we could beat the raid with your character but if we bring this uber geared buy it will go so much faster; sorry, all the healers are busy helping teh GL powerlevel an alt!)
3) Loot drama
4) Stale mechanics. It's tank and spank, or kite, or add phases, or stay out of fire, or some comboo of all of those.
Thats some poor choices or reasons. There is no choice for me along with a majority. Do I like raiding? Yes I like raiding but I loathe the gear grind which is why I don't raid.
Will you people stop linking Gear Grind to Raiding....!!!!
In WoW for example,,, everything you dom, not just Raiding, leads up to some sort of Gear Reward! Stop trying to justify your hatred for Raidings due to Gear Grinding.
Because clearly you dont seem to have a problem with Gear Grinding Mobs/Party Dungeons/ Quest/ anything else non raiding
When you're dealing with Mobs/Party Dungeons/Quests/anything else non-raiding, this generally means you're still leveling up, which goes hand in hand with a bit of gear grind to some degree, in the sense that you're constantly replacing your gear by doing this activities. However, leveling up while doing these things gives you a reason to do them.
And yes, as was stated before, Raiding is mostly associated with gear grind. But for what reason?
To raid more. To do the same raid again. And again. And again.
To not associate gear grind with raiding would be silly.
Comments
I put neutral to raiding. The only time i dont like raiding is when i have to the same instance 1000 times to get a piece of gear. Raiding shouldnt be a chore, but fun. I cant wait to try out SWTOR's raiding system.
***DDDDDDDDDAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!***
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
I dislike raiding. I don't mind if a game has it, but I would prefer a game with no raiding at all.
This is me. I've been the raider, Here is what I do not miss:
Scheduled play
Player managed loot distribution
Hokey Pokey with the fire on the floor
People failing at the Hokey Pokey ( I am referring to the chronic failers that happen to be married to the GM or some such)
The hamster wheel we run on to avoid being left out (that's what it is all about man)
Making sure I don't deviate from the zomg perfect cookie cutter spec/gear config of the week
Drama based on all of the above.
To those of you who do enjoy it....enjoy.
I had this same realisation between WoW an WAR recently. Not because of the games perse, but because of what I was doing in them. My WoW guild was a drama on a shedule. My WAR guild was all about unscheduled collaboration.
I made the decision after that to stick to small group dungeons and pvp. I dont want what raids have to offer.
Where is the "I like to raid but do not like running the same raid 50+ times in a row." Option? I voted "Hate" because this option was not available.
My theme song.
I despise raiding.
Instanced raiding taking down big bosses can be a lot of fun with the right people. Open world pvp/pve raids are some of the most fun Ive had in an mmo.
I really dislike raiding.. it sucks..
I can only speak based on my experiences in World of Warcraft...
In that regard, I actually despise raiding. There isn't much of an incentive for me to raid at level cap, because raid gear is used for... more raiding...
I'd rather get PvP gear so I can defend myself from other players.
Outside of gear, however, I find raiding a dungeon even once to be rather boring, no matter what role I choose to play in the group. In my mind everything from 5-mans to 25-mans just boil down to doing the same ability rotation over and over (more or less) and repositioning for whatever cheesy mechanics the fights call for.
In terms of raiders, the people who enjoy raiding, my experiences with them have been bitter, which has led me to view them as anal, number crunching tyrants who will not only kick you from a raiding group if you slack just a little, but may even kick you from a guild altogether. That sort of elitist behavior has always bothered me. I feel as long as someone is doing a even a decent job of pulling their own weight, they should by all means attempt to get better, but being kicked like a deviant is a bit much. I'm sure not all raiding guilds/groups are like that, of course, that's just my general impression of them; the first image I see in my mind when someone says the word, "raider".
Despite all of that, it more or less all comes down to doing the same thing over and over again. Sure, you could say PvP is doing the same thing over and over in terms of goals in, say, battlegrounds, but you'll always have the factors of the enemy players in the mix to shake things up. Raiding will always be the same scripted mechanics over and over and over, which is a real turn off for me.
High risk, high maintenance, large time investment - - little payoff.
I don't mind if raiding is in a game though, as long as it's lame qualities do not overshadow PvP, or other features of the game I enjoy (which was the case for WoW, which is partly why I quit).
I hate, despise, loathe, detest Raiding.
It ruins communities, promotes elitism and forces developers to spend obscenely huge amounts of time creating content for the smallest playerbase.
I used to raid in WoW, and let me tell you it took me 6 years to figure out how idiotic a system it is. I recently went back to my beloved Asherons Call, and the difference of playing a game without raiding and 1 that does is proof positive that raiding is a dieing system. I just hope that enough developers latch on to the whole GW2 model and do away with raiding as the sole source of endgame content altogether!
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Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I honestly dislike raiding nowdays, there was a tipping point during my time with AoC that turned me from a successfull 3 nights a week raider into someone who loathes raiding.
I particularly detest Raiding as developers Number 1 goto at endgame, I also think it is pure Folly to invest such intensive ammounts of time & resources on building Raid content that stats show is only ever experienced by a small percentage of your player base.
Time that could be better spent on something like an end game Random instance generator for both 4-6 man Groups & Solo play. They could still make it hard based on the group going in and then dole out "Raid level" loot.
Raiding to me nowdays feels like a huge timesink & at the end of a raid session you may not even have anything personally to show for it and in many cases the entire raid is pointless as the gear that drops goes to rott for various reasons.
My thoughts echo many of the ones already posted. I do like raiding at its core, but not the drama and other BS that often accompanies it. I would like it if every member of the raid was able to walk away with equal rewards so that things would be fair and fun for all involved. I'm hoping SWTOR has some fun raids, as I definatley plan to be involved.
If everything is going right- everyone showed up, no one's being an asshat in vent, people aren't complaining about the loot rules that were posted as part of their raid invite, people aren't whispering me that SoAndSo only did XXXX DPS last fight and I should kick them and invite Dpskingzilla instead- I love it. I even love wiping if we're learning fights and people aren't being babies about it.
But when you have people with the "I'm more important than the group" and "everyone, listen to what I can do in vent!" mentality, I can really do without it.
Like some others have posted, I work long hours, and I have always resented the ides of ring-fencing x number of hours y times a week for raiding.
In most games I play, I play longer hours than the hardcore raiders, but on my own schedule. I have friends that live to raid, and I wouldn't want them to have to do without something in a game they enjoy (for some of them, it's the only thing that keeps them logging in).
So, I'm neutral, I can live without it (probably the thing I care least about in a game) but I still like having the option to do it.
This is more the "have cake so you can eat it if you ever feel like it" stance.
I wouldn't be sad if I never raided again.
1. I dislike the fact that often raids are designed so that the members have to cooperate to complete the content yet at the same time compete with each other to get the rewards that are used to lure them to the raids, we all know what the effects of this are.
2. I dislike scripted fights that unfold near enough the same way each time. Nothing turned me off more than the raid leader saying 'ok the boss is at x health, event y is about to happen, everybody sharpen up'.
3. I dislike raid rewards often being the best rewards in the game as it doesn't necessarily reflect an individual's skill, all you need is time, a little dedication and competent social skills. If you are going to give the best rewards for group play then it should be based off of small groups, as group size increases the skill level of any single individual constituent generally has less of an impact overall.
That being said, I know that is not what this thread is about so back on topic.:
Yes, I enjoy raiding but only if the focus is on having fun. By this, I mean the developers have designed the raid on the basis of fun being the reward.
I dislike raiding and avoid games that focus entirely on it at end game
about the "raid does not mean gear grind" argument, lets do an experiment
make raiding grant plain average gear that you can find in drops form any random world mob
now, lets see how many people would raid just for the raid (challenge, story, fun) itself
we all know 95% of the current raiders would vanish in thin air...
It seems a good amount of the consensus here is that raiding is silly.
Good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks so.
At any rate, why do you all think WoW focuses so much on raiding? And I use the term "focus" lightly... Nowadays they've been slacking, or at least seem to be slacking, in the content department.
Why do people raid at all if it's so inconsequential?
Opinions?
I don't raid and any game which requires raiding to keep playing at max level, I don't play.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
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Now Playing: None
Hope: None
as I said in my post above, its all in the carrot at the end of the stick
keep the raids exactly the same, with only one difference: remove the best gear tiers dropping in raids.
basically, make raids just for the sake of raiding, and you will have your answer
9 out of every 10 raid guilds would disband within the first week.
people dont like the raids, they like the gear that drops in them.
I don't hate it, nor do I like it very much. The more people are involved, the less impact I have. I like to make a difference.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I find my opinions changing as time goes by, but here's how I feel about raiding right now.
I like the concept. I like the idea of a large group of people banding together in a desperate struggle to defeat a major evil. However, here is the reality of the implementation:
1) Difficulty is either so hard only the super-elitists can kill a boss; or so easy 10 braindead chimpanzees can roll face through it.
2) Slot drama (We don''t need anoy more of this class; My best friend wants to go and even though you need loot and he doesn't we want him; Yes we could beat the raid with your character but if we bring this uber geared buy it will go so much faster; sorry, all the healers are busy helping teh GL powerlevel an alt!)
3) Loot drama
4) Stale mechanics. It's tank and spank, or kite, or add phases, or stay out of fire, or some comboo of all of those.
Change those things, and I'll love raiding again.
I am rather neutral, I can enjoy a good raid as well as the next guy but when the endgame is just raiding and dailys it bores me.
When you're dealing with Mobs/Party Dungeons/Quests/anything else non-raiding, this generally means you're still leveling up, which goes hand in hand with a bit of gear grind to some degree, in the sense that you're constantly replacing your gear by doing this activities. However, leveling up while doing these things gives you a reason to do them.
And yes, as was stated before, Raiding is mostly associated with gear grind. But for what reason?
To raid more. To do the same raid again. And again. And again.
To not associate gear grind with raiding would be silly.