I don't understand this. It doesn't look anything like WoW to me. No more than it looks like EQ. That is to say, it is built upon themepark MMO staples. It's like saying hey that sports car looks like a sports car! This "it looks like WoW statement" is far overused and generally says nothing about what we're looking at.
Totally agree with you.
I've not played SWTOR but I've played all those other games that called WoW clones, and almost all of them are like WoW only in the broadest, most superficial sense.
And no it doesnt mean they wont deliver an mmo thats good quality, fun to play, and with its own distinctive game play. But its the game play Im mostly talking about. It LOOKS like WoW with light sabers. Looks....not necessarily plays. Im still on the fence. But they're plainly not pushing any of the mechanics into new frontiers is all Im saying. What Im saying is its possible they didnt have too. And they knew it.
Hmm, despite some of body types that are oversized and some of the gear, I don't see that big a resemblance with WoW. People might have as well said that it looks like CoX or KOTOR and have an equally good claim to make.
The colors are more realistic than the intense color use in WoW, the buildings and such have a different feel to it than in WoW, you only have to look at Coruscant or Dromund Kaas and compare it with a Stormwind or Orgrimmar for example. Even the lighting and visual effects have a different result.
As for the gameplay, they're doing their own thing: maybe it isn't as revolutionarily innovative as some want it, throwing the whole chessboard away, but things like the Companion system, the story questing revamp, the Crew Skills system and the strategic world PvP are aspects on their own that show that even if their goal wasn't to revolutionise MMO gameplay and features, they went ahead to create their own game and introduce and change features that they felt needed changing for the game they intended to make.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I don't see why you need yet another game that is similar to WoW. We have EQ2, Vanguard, LOTRO, AOC, WAR, and Rift just to name a few. If those games do not satisfy your needs I guarantee SWTOR won't either.
Oh it'll please plenty. Those that love Mass Effect style conversations and story options will find it there. And for the masses wanting their Star Wars fix. If you like the idea of having some NPC follow you around and help you fight thats a plus.
Not sure if Swtor is really doing anything different other than that. For a lot of people thats more than enough. Im not one of them but I cant begrudge them for it.
Theoritically lets say World of Warcraft somehow came out with an expansion or a mod that suddenly turned WoW into Star Wars. Two different versions. One is regular WoW, the other is full of ships and lightsabers etc. Totally Star Wars themed. Which do you think the players would spend more time on? Everyone, at least for awhile, would go Star Wars crazy. And this is really what its all about.
Bioware knew they didnt have to alter things much. They could afford to play it safe and sell tons of copies. Why? Their name. Bioware. And the other name. Star Wars. This = $$$ and they know it.
Nah it's more that the things they see as game changing you don't see as a big deal. I am loving the companion characters and their involvment in my characters story am equally enthused about the different nuances added to crafting by the companion characters.
And the focus paid to story telling in mmorpgs is something I've personally waited a long time for and I don't think I'm alone in this.
Don't have time to read all 3 pages of replies, so I apologize if someone else pointed this out, but...
The ENTIRE frikkin' game is full of cut-scenes with dialogue. If you're not into cut-scenes, I think you'll be sorely disappointed with SWToR.
Yeah cut scenes suck but thats bioware for you.
The thing that really gets me (and i've seen alot of gameplay videos) Is when speaking with other npc your given choices of ways to answer. That would be great except from the gameplay i've seen it doesn't really matter what you choose, the result is the same. I know some choices give you light or dark points changing your toon....but why bother to make me click choices when it doesnt really matter what i pick 90% of the time?
I guess its the mass effect and keeps you from falling asleep while watching the cut scenes.
I don't see why you need yet another game that is similar to WoW. We have EQ2, Vanguard, LOTRO, AOC, WAR, and Rift just to name a few. If those games do not satisfy your needs I guarantee SWTOR won't either.
Oh it'll please plenty. Those that love Mass Effect style conversations and story options will find it there. And for the masses wanting their Star Wars fix. If you like the idea of having some NPC follow you around and help you fight thats a plus.
Not sure if Swtor is really doing anything different other than that. For a lot of people thats more than enough. Im not one of them but I cant begrudge them for it.
Theoritically lets say World of Warcraft somehow came out with an expansion or a mod that suddenly turned WoW into Star Wars. Two different versions. One is regular WoW, the other is full of ships and lightsabers etc. Totally Star Wars themed. Which do you think the players would spend more time on? Everyone, at least for awhile, would go Star Wars crazy. And this is really what its all about.
Bioware knew they didnt have to alter things much. They could afford to play it safe and sell tons of copies. Why? Their name. Bioware. And the other name. Star Wars. This = $$$ and they know it.
Nah it's more that the things they see as game changing you don't see as a big deal. I am loving the companion characters and their involvment in my characters story am equally enthused about the different nuances added to crafting by the companion characters.
And the focus paid to story telling in mmorpgs is something I've personally waited a long time for and I don't think I'm alone in this.
Yea you're right really. I dont see companions as a big deal in fact I dislike the idea entirely. I dont want NPCs following me around in an mmorpg. Im more okay with it in a single player game, but running around while I watch every single player being followed around by NPCs just seems incredibly off to me.
Speaking of which, I appreciate some level of broad story and lore, but no I dont think a "personal" story fits in an mmorpg. Again thats what I play single player games for. Im in no way saying voiced quest givers are a bad thing, or that conversation options arent cool. Its the whole "storyline" idea. I enjoyed Mass Effect immensly, as well as Kotor. But in an mmorpg? Where multitudes of the same class are experiencing the same or similar personal stories, some identical seems really off. Personal stories, and being lead down a path with branching options, is the perfect fit for any single player RPG. For instance, I played Red Dead Redemption. Playing some now in fact. When I play single player? Personal story (although limited). Once I dive into multiplayer? "Story" is some what left behind.
In fact it seems that Bioware is trying to shove as many typical single player mechanics into their mmo as they can. Maybe that will work out. Im unsure.
But these points arent enough to put me off Swtor. Not at all. Its the other new things they offer that excite me. Or would....if they had anything else.
WOW you have to be the first person i ever heard of that said a game has TOO MUCh story....hell you can never get enough story in my opinion, the story is EVERYTHING! with no story ther eis no intrest/need to play
example: a 2 hr war movie with a story( kick ass)
a 2hr war movie with no story just watching booms and pows no talking no nothing btu has a cool new innovating GUN. (would keep intrest for 15mins then get bored of the same old thing and lose intrest n leave)
god i dont understand people who dont think personal story belongs in an mmorpg what?
are u kidding me its a rpg u know story weather dev or player based is a huge part of that role player game .
its why mmos are adding story even gw 2 story matters. wow an others tried to add it but was just a wall of text having it be vo and cinematic is cool
i been playign dragon age 2 and the companions talking while iw alk to each other is funny. i love the story parts and cut scenes. especially when merill is involved
the elf is hilarious and shy and crazy all rolled into one.
if the companions in wow are this well writte and story as good as dragon age and mass effect it will make a huge diffrence in mmos
may force all new mmos to do vo and story even if they dont do companions.
WOW you have to be the first person i ever heard of that said a game has TOO MUCh story....hell you can never get enough story in my opinion, the story is EVERYTHING! with no story ther eis no intrest/need to play
example: a 2 hr war movie with a story( kick ass)
a 2hr war movie with no story just watching booms and pows no talking no nothing btu has a cool new innovating GUN. (would keep intrest for 15mins then get bored of the same old thing and lose intrest n leave)
WoW has story. WaR has story. Just about every mmorpg in existence has some kind of story.
However watching hours upon hours of boring dialogue which is all Ive seen thus far, is not my idea of a good time. In Mass Effect I appreciated the character interaction immensly. The characters had life. Even the smallest of expressions could be read and identified with. Great stuff.
All I see here are characters standing in place, moving their arms around and speaking about even epic ongoing events as though they were discussing how to change a car tire. For hours. And hours.
And yes, there can be a thing as too much story. Its called "plot heavy". You know, the war movie where hardly a shot is fired. I agree with what you were trying to say, which was that action is pointless and unentertaining when it has no context, which story provides. But too much is just as bad.
bioware though has been doing story rpgs for a while and have some of the best rated rpgs out there for single player games.
bringing that to an mmo isnt bad. blending story and action together is what bioware does well. i doubt they will go oveboard and the choices that impact u will be great.
Don't have time to read all 3 pages of replies, so I apologize if someone else pointed this out, but...
The ENTIRE frikkin' game is full of cut-scenes with dialogue. If you're not into cut-scenes, I think you'll be sorely disappointed with SWToR.
Yes it is. Isn't that stupid? Somebody actually went to the effort of figuring out a way to actually make me interested in the quest itself. They made the quest dialogue into a one or two minute movie that I actually get to interact with and MAKE DECISIONS that affect the quest and other things down the line of the game. I am so gonna be pissed off about all that.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
"UO is just a...wait a min...uo is just a gui for the old Muds!"
"Muds are just pnp gone digital!"
"PnP is just strategy games with single units!"
"Strategy games are just chess with more colors!"
The point of that sillyness was to show that everyone at the time simply related something new to something already being done. It's not a bad thing for the next thing in line to base itself off of what's already established as a great thing. WoW is top dog right now, has been for over half a decade, even Blizz knows it needs to be "dethroned" for the genre to advance, and it's trying to do so with another IP of it's own.
BW is tossing it's hat into the MMO genre with SWTOR, an attempt to "dethrone" WoW? Maybe, I don't think they have ever stated themselves that's what the goal is, but I'm sure they would love to take a big chunk of those subscribers and add them to SWTORs base. BW is looking to shake it up a bit with a more story/character driven MMO, couple that with the SW name and an already established "universe" (the KOTOR time frame), and you have something that could be quite popular and successful.
Will it be revoluntionary? No. As much as I want to play this game, and from all the lil tidbits that guild mates who are in beta right now have told me, I still don't think it's going to revolutionize the industry.
Is it doing something different? Yes. I have yet to play or hear about any mmo that has such a individual character based story behind it.
Will it have different mechanics? Some things are bound to be different in the game, we all have seen the quest, flashpoint, operation quest convos, I have yet to see another MMO that has done it that way (if there are I'm sure you'll let me know). As far as I have seen it will still have the "Holy Trinity", but to be fair, how the hell do you break from that? Topic for another time...
Is it a clone? You bet. SWTOR is definatly a chess clone.
WOW you have to be the first person i ever heard of that said a game has TOO MUCh story....hell you can never get enough story in my opinion, the story is EVERYTHING! with no story ther eis no intrest/need to play
example: a 2 hr war movie with a story( kick ass)
a 2hr war movie with no story just watching booms and pows no talking no nothing btu has a cool new innovating GUN. (would keep intrest for 15mins then get bored of the same old thing and lose intrest n leave)
WoW has story. WaR has story. Just about every mmorpg in existence has some kind of story.
However watching hours upon hours of boring dialogue which is all Ive seen thus far, is not my idea of a good time. In Mass Effect I appreciated the character interaction immensly. The characters had life. Even the smallest of expressions could be read and identified with. Great stuff.
All I see here are characters standing in place, moving their arms around and speaking about even epic ongoing events as though they were discussing how to change a car tire. For hours. And hours.
And yes, there can be a thing as too much story. Its called "plot heavy". You know, the war movie where hardly a shot is fired. I agree with what you were trying to say, which was that action is pointless and unentertaining when it has no context, which story provides. But too much is just as bad.
WOW you have to be the first person i ever heard of that said a game has TOO MUCh story....hell you can never get enough story in my opinion, the story is EVERYTHING! with no story ther eis no intrest/need to play
example: a 2 hr war movie with a story( kick ass)
a 2hr war movie with no story just watching booms and pows no talking no nothing btu has a cool new innovating GUN. (would keep intrest for 15mins then get bored of the same old thing and lose intrest n leave)
WoW has story. WaR has story. Just about every mmorpg in existence has some kind of story.
However watching hours upon hours of boring dialogue which is all Ive seen thus far, is not my idea of a good time. In Mass Effect I appreciated the character interaction immensly. The characters had life. Even the smallest of expressions could be read and identified with. Great stuff.
All I see here are characters standing in place, moving their arms around and speaking about even epic ongoing events as though they were discussing how to change a car tire. For hours. And hours.
And yes, there can be a thing as too much story. Its called "plot heavy". You know, the war movie where hardly a shot is fired. I agree with what you were trying to say, which was that action is pointless and unentertaining when it has no context, which story provides. But too much is just as bad.
Which wasnt really my point anyways.
But it's still a WoW clone, right?
It is not worth it man. Sadly he is a big GW2 fan and i have stopped arguing with them. I just think it is a huge waste of time because if i am not interested in a MMO i just stop visiting it instead of just frustrating those who are genuienly looking forward to play it.
So let them think it is a WOW clone and story is boring..They will tell you hey it is not for me in every post but in 2 minutes laters you will see them posting same thing over and over again. It is like a vicious cycle and it never ends.
WOW you have to be the first person i ever heard of that said a game has TOO MUCh story....hell you can never get enough story in my opinion, the story is EVERYTHING! with no story ther eis no intrest/need to play
example: a 2 hr war movie with a story( kick ass)
a 2hr war movie with no story just watching booms and pows no talking no nothing btu has a cool new innovating GUN. (would keep intrest for 15mins then get bored of the same old thing and lose intrest n leave)
WoW has story. WaR has story. Just about every mmorpg in existence has some kind of story.
However watching hours upon hours of boring dialogue which is all Ive seen thus far, is not my idea of a good time. In Mass Effect I appreciated the character interaction immensly. The characters had life. Even the smallest of expressions could be read and identified with. Great stuff.
All I see here are characters standing in place, moving their arms around and speaking about even epic ongoing events as though they were discussing how to change a car tire. For hours. And hours.
And yes, there can be a thing as too much story. Its called "plot heavy". You know, the war movie where hardly a shot is fired. I agree with what you were trying to say, which was that action is pointless and unentertaining when it has no context, which story provides. But too much is just as bad.
Which wasnt really my point anyways.
But it's still a WoW clone, right?
It is not worth it man. Sadly he is a big GW2 fan and i have stopped arguing with them. I just think it is a huge waste of time because if i am not interested in a MMO i just stop visiting it instead of just frustrating those who are genuienly looking forward to play it.
So let them think it is a WOW clone and story is boring..They will tell you hey it is not me in every post but in 2 minutes laters you will see them posting same thing over and over again. It is like a vicious cycle and it never ends.
its true enough that all MMO's tend to have some kind of story.. but.. quite often, the story is defined by the players themselves, the only real difference in SW;TOR is that everything is predetermined, the players choose which path to take in the storyline. it might even be comparable to an interractive movie, certainly there are similarities of concept.
its true enough that all MMO's tend to have some kind of story.. but.. quite often, the story is defined by the players themselves, the only real difference in SW;TOR is that everything is predetermined, the players choose which path to take in the storyline. it might even be comparable to an interractive movie, certainly there are similarities of concept.
What themepark in your recent memory lets you make your own story? i would like to know that game where players define their own story.
SWTOR is a Bioware story and you are just one of the main characters. The beginning, middle and end is set but you don't know what it is. So you make choices and get a different ending with every class you pick up. Not good enough for you? and yes it is supposed to play like an interactive movie with loads of choices.
Don't get me wrong, I don't see TOR as a Wow clone, in fact as I've said numerous times, I don't even see many of the regular "WoW clone" games as WoW clones.
The pattern I'm noticing is that those who say TOR is WoW in space write off everything that it does differently to WoW as rubbish, then they call it a WoW clone. It's absurd.
@supersoups - you're right, there's really no point getting involved with these arguments. Thing is, as far as GW2 goes, I like it's feature list and I've liked those features in other games that have had them, and I like the direction its going in but I'm not going to play it because it's not my bag. I'm heartily sick of fantasy. I hope it does well, though, and I hope those who play it love it. The fact that there are some things I don't like about it makes no odds. It's silly to write games off as failures simply because they don't appeal to me enough to want to play them.
WOW you have to be the first person i ever heard of that said a game has TOO MUCh story....hell you can never get enough story in my opinion, the story is EVERYTHING! with no story ther eis no intrest/need to play
example: a 2 hr war movie with a story( kick ass)
a 2hr war movie with no story just watching booms and pows no talking no nothing btu has a cool new innovating GUN. (would keep intrest for 15mins then get bored of the same old thing and lose intrest n leave)
WoW has story. WaR has story. Just about every mmorpg in existence has some kind of story.
However watching hours upon hours of boring dialogue which is all Ive seen thus far, is not my idea of a good time. In Mass Effect I appreciated the character interaction immensly. The characters had life. Even the smallest of expressions could be read and identified with. Great stuff.
All I see here are characters standing in place, moving their arms around and speaking about even epic ongoing events as though they were discussing how to change a car tire. For hours. And hours.
And yes, there can be a thing as too much story. Its called "plot heavy". You know, the war movie where hardly a shot is fired. I agree with what you were trying to say, which was that action is pointless and unentertaining when it has no context, which story provides. But too much is just as bad.
Which wasnt really my point anyways.
But it's still a WoW clone, right?
It is not worth it man. Sadly he is a big GW2 fan and i have stopped arguing with them. I just think it is a huge waste of time because if i am not interested in a MMO i just stop visiting it instead of just frustrating those who are genuienly looking forward to play it.
So let them think it is a WOW clone and story is boring..They will tell you hey it is not me in every post but in 2 minutes laters you will see them posting same thing over and over again. It is like a vicious cycle and it never ends.
its true enough that all MMO's tend to have some kind of story.. but.. quite often, the story is defined by the players themselves, the only real difference in SW;TOR is that everything is predetermined, the players choose which path to take in the storyline. it might even be comparable to an interractive movie, certainly there are similarities of concept.
The personal storylines aren't all the game. They're not even half of it. The rest of TOR is making your own story, just like most other MMOs out there.
This here show a mindset that Bioware arent simplay a studio made up of Ego Driven Blind WoW Haters like Mythic was with Warhammer (ironic I know), and how Anet and ZombieLabs are. They remind me of Trion, the developers seem to understand that most of these WoW players dont HATE WOW, they simply tired of it and want something new. Developers with this mindset seem to do well.
So, because a studio does games their own way, instead of looking towards the biggest game in the genre, makes them ego driven blind wow haters? Really.. what a joke.
So that means you like CoD Black Ops, Justin Bieber and MacDonalds just because they're the most popular. Everyone who's creating their own thing are ego driven >insert< blind haters. Really? Wow.. people like you make me feel so much better.
its true enough that all MMO's tend to have some kind of story.. but.. quite often, the story is defined by the players themselves, the only real difference in SW;TOR is that everything is predetermined, the players choose which path to take in the storyline. it might even be comparable to an interractive movie, certainly there are similarities of concept.
Will you please next time when you're considering to post in a SWTOR thread, take some time and go through the feature list posted as a sticky before you decide to hop in, showcase your uninformedness with SWTOR as an MMO only to never return to your post or the thread again? It's kind of getting annoying when people keep posting the same uninformed and ignorant comments over and over and over and, oh, did I say over already, again every time they post in a thread of a game they dislike.
Especially if people have already answered upon their questions and comments, yet these persons still keep posting the same uninformed comments. It makes one question the agenda or honesty with which such persons post their posts, because it starts to look like a form of TOR bashing.
Everything that's said in that post is untrue, especially relating to themepark MMO's.
Even more than that, players will have more control in SWTOR over their questing and story than in other (themepark) MMO's that use quests.
And in case some people still have trouble understanding MMO mechanics, SWTOR will be as good and even more of an MMORPG than a lot of other MMORPG's around.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
you are right mmo as u usually are about tor and there haters. That they never actually know what they are taling about and are 2 yrs behind on tor info.
That said i love what tor is doing diffrent from wow.
the story with full vo, the choices characters make that impact them The companions. i played dragon age 2 recently and loved the companions if they have one companion for me half as fun as merill im in.
The crafting where my companions do it so i cna do ther stuff besides watch soem bar move back and forth back and forth while i nap. being able to send your companion to town to sell junk so u dont have to quit questing just to sell junk.
Those are all diffrent then wow. some of them are actualy innovation for the mmo genre. No one has ever done a full voiced mmmo where you make chocies that actually impact your character.
will it feel like an interactive movie a bit i know dragon age 2 does but then i got totally immersed in dragon age 2 id look up and id played 4 hrs and the only time id get drwan out was my gf laughing at something one of my companions said or go oh my god when someone flirted with me.
after watching me play dragon age 2 she is now interested in tor.
Bioware used make the best pc rpg games back in the day, sadly that is not the case anymore.
Anymore? you must be disappointed by DA2 i guess? no body is perfect and yes not even Bioware. i hardly doubt that one under appreciated title is going to tarnish their reputation as great RPG devs. Everything will change once ME3 comes out.
I didn't like dragon age 1 either, i thought it was a very linear experience
Why don't you go play Baldur's Gate and the sequels, and the greatest PC RPG ever made... Planescape.
If ToR is a "clone" of WoW then its a good thing. WoW has the best and most fluid figthing engine i have seen in a MMO. Its responsive, fluid, no input delay, moves come out when they are supposed to. IMO WoW PVP is the best PvP on any MMO. If any MMO comes close to tournament worthy it's WoW and WoW does have a huge tournament scene in Asia. Just look up WoW tournaments on google and you will see the big money tournaments this game has. So if bioware can successfully emulate the WoW engine then so be it. It will be great.
As for the "carrot on a stick argument" oh please, players need incentive to play a game. You know why WoW works and have 10 mil people logging in everyday? because they log in to acheve that "carrot." And guess what it works. Name me one sandbox game that has the same success as WoW. Raiding>many aspects on an MMO. It helps people meet up, make new friends. When you join a guild and raid with 24 or 9 other people night after night you get more than digital items. You make a group of new friends. (i don't like raiding). IMO TOR will come out and do good. But i think GW 2 will be a huge letdown. That game doesn't offer anything for people looking for social interaction, You don't even need a guild in that game. You can Solo you're way through WvWvW and find random instance group to run those. Since gear's are not a factor in game there goes any raiding or putting in long hours to find new gears for your character. The only people i see playing that game on a regualr basis are people like me who plays fighting games for years and years to get good at it. They will be playing GW 2 pvp to get good on it. Log in, play matches for 2-3 hours a day and log off.
So imo WoW model works very well for social interactons. And if TOR is copying WoW then good for them. If TOR is anything like WoW's engine it will work and be very successful. IMO ofcourse.
Comments
Totally agree with you.
I've not played SWTOR but I've played all those other games that called WoW clones, and almost all of them are like WoW only in the broadest, most superficial sense.
Hmm, despite some of body types that are oversized and some of the gear, I don't see that big a resemblance with WoW. People might have as well said that it looks like CoX or KOTOR and have an equally good claim to make.
The colors are more realistic than the intense color use in WoW, the buildings and such have a different feel to it than in WoW, you only have to look at Coruscant or Dromund Kaas and compare it with a Stormwind or Orgrimmar for example. Even the lighting and visual effects have a different result.
As for the gameplay, they're doing their own thing: maybe it isn't as revolutionarily innovative as some want it, throwing the whole chessboard away, but things like the Companion system, the story questing revamp, the Crew Skills system and the strategic world PvP are aspects on their own that show that even if their goal wasn't to revolutionise MMO gameplay and features, they went ahead to create their own game and introduce and change features that they felt needed changing for the game they intended to make.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Don't have time to read all 3 pages of replies, so I apologize if someone else pointed this out, but...
The ENTIRE frikkin' game is full of cut-scenes with dialogue. If you're not into cut-scenes, I think you'll be sorely disappointed with SWToR.
No godless person can comprehend those minute distinctions
in doctrine that provide true believers excuse for mayhem.
-Glen Cook
Nah it's more that the things they see as game changing you don't see as a big deal. I am loving the companion characters and their involvment in my characters story am equally enthused about the different nuances added to crafting by the companion characters.
And the focus paid to story telling in mmorpgs is something I've personally waited a long time for and I don't think I'm alone in this.
Hopefully, one day soon a certain NDA will drop and I (and others) will really be able to post what I think.
Reward creativity and innovation in games.
Yeah cut scenes suck but thats bioware for you.
The thing that really gets me (and i've seen alot of gameplay videos) Is when speaking with other npc your given choices of ways to answer. That would be great except from the gameplay i've seen it doesn't really matter what you choose, the result is the same. I know some choices give you light or dark points changing your toon....but why bother to make me click choices when it doesnt really matter what i pick 90% of the time?
I guess its the mass effect and keeps you from falling asleep while watching the cut scenes.
Yea you're right really. I dont see companions as a big deal in fact I dislike the idea entirely. I dont want NPCs following me around in an mmorpg. Im more okay with it in a single player game, but running around while I watch every single player being followed around by NPCs just seems incredibly off to me.
Speaking of which, I appreciate some level of broad story and lore, but no I dont think a "personal" story fits in an mmorpg. Again thats what I play single player games for. Im in no way saying voiced quest givers are a bad thing, or that conversation options arent cool. Its the whole "storyline" idea. I enjoyed Mass Effect immensly, as well as Kotor. But in an mmorpg? Where multitudes of the same class are experiencing the same or similar personal stories, some identical seems really off. Personal stories, and being lead down a path with branching options, is the perfect fit for any single player RPG. For instance, I played Red Dead Redemption. Playing some now in fact. When I play single player? Personal story (although limited). Once I dive into multiplayer? "Story" is some what left behind.
In fact it seems that Bioware is trying to shove as many typical single player mechanics into their mmo as they can. Maybe that will work out. Im unsure.
But these points arent enough to put me off Swtor. Not at all. Its the other new things they offer that excite me. Or would....if they had anything else.
WOW you have to be the first person i ever heard of that said a game has TOO MUCh story....hell you can never get enough story in my opinion, the story is EVERYTHING! with no story ther eis no intrest/need to play
example: a 2 hr war movie with a story( kick ass)
a 2hr war movie with no story just watching booms and pows no talking no nothing btu has a cool new innovating GUN. (would keep intrest for 15mins then get bored of the same old thing and lose intrest n leave)
god i dont understand people who dont think personal story belongs in an mmorpg what?
are u kidding me its a rpg u know story weather dev or player based is a huge part of that role player game .
its why mmos are adding story even gw 2 story matters. wow an others tried to add it but was just a wall of text having it be vo and cinematic is cool
i been playign dragon age 2 and the companions talking while iw alk to each other is funny. i love the story parts and cut scenes. especially when merill is involved
the elf is hilarious and shy and crazy all rolled into one.
if the companions in wow are this well writte and story as good as dragon age and mass effect it will make a huge diffrence in mmos
may force all new mmos to do vo and story even if they dont do companions.
WoW has story. WaR has story. Just about every mmorpg in existence has some kind of story.
However watching hours upon hours of boring dialogue which is all Ive seen thus far, is not my idea of a good time. In Mass Effect I appreciated the character interaction immensly. The characters had life. Even the smallest of expressions could be read and identified with. Great stuff.
All I see here are characters standing in place, moving their arms around and speaking about even epic ongoing events as though they were discussing how to change a car tire. For hours. And hours.
And yes, there can be a thing as too much story. Its called "plot heavy". You know, the war movie where hardly a shot is fired. I agree with what you were trying to say, which was that action is pointless and unentertaining when it has no context, which story provides. But too much is just as bad.
Which wasnt really my point anyways.
bioware though has been doing story rpgs for a while and have some of the best rated rpgs out there for single player games.
bringing that to an mmo isnt bad. blending story and action together is what bioware does well. i doubt they will go oveboard and the choices that impact u will be great.
i for one am looking forward to it
Yes it is. Isn't that stupid? Somebody actually went to the effort of figuring out a way to actually make me interested in the quest itself. They made the quest dialogue into a one or two minute movie that I actually get to interact with and MAKE DECISIONS that affect the quest and other things down the line of the game. I am so gonna be pissed off about all that.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
The Clone wars...
"SWTOR is just a WoW clone!"
"WoW is just an EQ clone!"
"EQ is just a UO clone!"
"UO is just a...wait a min...uo is just a gui for the old Muds!"
"Muds are just pnp gone digital!"
"PnP is just strategy games with single units!"
"Strategy games are just chess with more colors!"
The point of that sillyness was to show that everyone at the time simply related something new to something already being done. It's not a bad thing for the next thing in line to base itself off of what's already established as a great thing. WoW is top dog right now, has been for over half a decade, even Blizz knows it needs to be "dethroned" for the genre to advance, and it's trying to do so with another IP of it's own.
BW is tossing it's hat into the MMO genre with SWTOR, an attempt to "dethrone" WoW? Maybe, I don't think they have ever stated themselves that's what the goal is, but I'm sure they would love to take a big chunk of those subscribers and add them to SWTORs base. BW is looking to shake it up a bit with a more story/character driven MMO, couple that with the SW name and an already established "universe" (the KOTOR time frame), and you have something that could be quite popular and successful.
Will it be revoluntionary? No. As much as I want to play this game, and from all the lil tidbits that guild mates who are in beta right now have told me, I still don't think it's going to revolutionize the industry.
Is it doing something different? Yes. I have yet to play or hear about any mmo that has such a individual character based story behind it.
Will it have different mechanics? Some things are bound to be different in the game, we all have seen the quest, flashpoint, operation quest convos, I have yet to see another MMO that has done it that way (if there are I'm sure you'll let me know). As far as I have seen it will still have the "Holy Trinity", but to be fair, how the hell do you break from that? Topic for another time...
Is it a clone? You bet. SWTOR is definatly a chess clone.
But it's still a WoW clone, right?
...../headesk
It is not worth it man. Sadly he is a big GW2 fan and i have stopped arguing with them. I just think it is a huge waste of time because if i am not interested in a MMO i just stop visiting it instead of just frustrating those who are genuienly looking forward to play it.
So let them think it is a WOW clone and story is boring..They will tell you hey it is not for me in every post but in 2 minutes laters you will see them posting same thing over and over again. It is like a vicious cycle and it never ends.
its true enough that all MMO's tend to have some kind of story.. but.. quite often, the story is defined by the players themselves, the only real difference in SW;TOR is that everything is predetermined, the players choose which path to take in the storyline. it might even be comparable to an interractive movie, certainly there are similarities of concept.
What themepark in your recent memory lets you make your own story? i would like to know that game where players define their own story.
SWTOR is a Bioware story and you are just one of the main characters. The beginning, middle and end is set but you don't know what it is. So you make choices and get a different ending with every class you pick up. Not good enough for you? and yes it is supposed to play like an interactive movie with loads of choices.
Don't get me wrong, I don't see TOR as a Wow clone, in fact as I've said numerous times, I don't even see many of the regular "WoW clone" games as WoW clones.
The pattern I'm noticing is that those who say TOR is WoW in space write off everything that it does differently to WoW as rubbish, then they call it a WoW clone. It's absurd.
@supersoups - you're right, there's really no point getting involved with these arguments. Thing is, as far as GW2 goes, I like it's feature list and I've liked those features in other games that have had them, and I like the direction its going in but I'm not going to play it because it's not my bag. I'm heartily sick of fantasy. I hope it does well, though, and I hope those who play it love it. The fact that there are some things I don't like about it makes no odds. It's silly to write games off as failures simply because they don't appeal to me enough to want to play them.
The personal storylines aren't all the game. They're not even half of it. The rest of TOR is making your own story, just like most other MMOs out there.
So, because a studio does games their own way, instead of looking towards the biggest game in the genre, makes them ego driven blind wow haters? Really.. what a joke.
So that means you like CoD Black Ops, Justin Bieber and MacDonalds just because they're the most popular. Everyone who's creating their own thing are ego driven >insert< blind haters. Really? Wow.. people like you make me feel so much better.
Will you please next time when you're considering to post in a SWTOR thread, take some time and go through the feature list posted as a sticky before you decide to hop in, showcase your uninformedness with SWTOR as an MMO only to never return to your post or the thread again? It's kind of getting annoying when people keep posting the same uninformed and ignorant comments over and over and over and, oh, did I say over already, again every time they post in a thread of a game they dislike.
Especially if people have already answered upon their questions and comments, yet these persons still keep posting the same uninformed comments. It makes one question the agenda or honesty with which such persons post their posts, because it starts to look like a form of TOR bashing.
Everything that's said in that post is untrue, especially relating to themepark MMO's.
Even more than that, players will have more control in SWTOR over their questing and story than in other (themepark) MMO's that use quests.
And in case some people still have trouble understanding MMO mechanics, SWTOR will be as good and even more of an MMORPG than a lot of other MMORPG's around.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
you are right mmo as u usually are about tor and there haters. That they never actually know what they are taling about and are 2 yrs behind on tor info.
That said i love what tor is doing diffrent from wow.
the story with full vo, the choices characters make that impact them The companions. i played dragon age 2 recently and loved the companions if they have one companion for me half as fun as merill im in.
The crafting where my companions do it so i cna do ther stuff besides watch soem bar move back and forth back and forth while i nap. being able to send your companion to town to sell junk so u dont have to quit questing just to sell junk.
Those are all diffrent then wow. some of them are actualy innovation for the mmo genre. No one has ever done a full voiced mmmo where you make chocies that actually impact your character.
will it feel like an interactive movie a bit i know dragon age 2 does but then i got totally immersed in dragon age 2 id look up and id played 4 hrs and the only time id get drwan out was my gf laughing at something one of my companions said or go oh my god when someone flirted with me.
after watching me play dragon age 2 she is now interested in tor.
Why don't you go play Baldur's Gate and the sequels, and the greatest PC RPG ever made... Planescape.
If ToR is a "clone" of WoW then its a good thing. WoW has the best and most fluid figthing engine i have seen in a MMO. Its responsive, fluid, no input delay, moves come out when they are supposed to. IMO WoW PVP is the best PvP on any MMO. If any MMO comes close to tournament worthy it's WoW and WoW does have a huge tournament scene in Asia. Just look up WoW tournaments on google and you will see the big money tournaments this game has. So if bioware can successfully emulate the WoW engine then so be it. It will be great.
As for the "carrot on a stick argument" oh please, players need incentive to play a game. You know why WoW works and have 10 mil people logging in everyday? because they log in to acheve that "carrot." And guess what it works. Name me one sandbox game that has the same success as WoW. Raiding>many aspects on an MMO. It helps people meet up, make new friends. When you join a guild and raid with 24 or 9 other people night after night you get more than digital items. You make a group of new friends. (i don't like raiding). IMO TOR will come out and do good. But i think GW 2 will be a huge letdown. That game doesn't offer anything for people looking for social interaction, You don't even need a guild in that game. You can Solo you're way through WvWvW and find random instance group to run those. Since gear's are not a factor in game there goes any raiding or putting in long hours to find new gears for your character. The only people i see playing that game on a regualr basis are people like me who plays fighting games for years and years to get good at it. They will be playing GW 2 pvp to get good on it. Log in, play matches for 2-3 hours a day and log off.
So imo WoW model works very well for social interactons. And if TOR is copying WoW then good for them. If TOR is anything like WoW's engine it will work and be very successful. IMO ofcourse.
Currently Playing: SSFIV AE, SFxTekken, SWTOR, WoW. Waiting for: GW2, Resident Evil 6.